None of these games are hard they're just broken

You have no functioning melee, you have no mechanical synergy, you have no combat interactions

Bayonetta does have all of those things, though. What are you talking about?

Bayonetta does. Can't say the same for DMC though.

Wtf is "combat interactions" supposed to mean?

In Bayo, using melee for its main purpose is absolutely detrimental to the player and the game punishes its use in many ways. That automatically makes it dysfunctional.
Sounds self-explanatory to me, try playing real action games like DMC, God Hand and Ninja Gaiden.

Back-and-forth between you and the enemies, I guess?

using melee for its main purpose is absolutely detrimental to the player and the game punishes its use in many ways

That is just not true. If it were true, moves like the PPPK sweep would be useless, but that is simply not the case. That webm only shows that enemies in Bayonetta parry your attacks.

bump

I like DMC and God Hand more than Bayo, but I like Bayo a lot. While I somewhat agree with what you are trying to communicate, you are looking at things too one dimensionally and causing division within a very small community. While it's true many enemies can parry your longer combos, that doesn't mean melee is worthless. Yes, you can play 100% at distance and never touch and get success, just like you can HSK cancel every non-demon boss against a wall and spam wind path-wind run - OLUT.

Melee is not detrimental. Bayo's kicks have pronounced effects, even more so when they're part of a Punch combo. And even more more so if they're the sweep. Regular melee attacks can still be used to juggling or if you hit an enemy in the back. No one talks about this last point.

Fight a burning ardor with fire durga on hands and feet. Mash attack. You will get a hit, get parried. Try this instead. Hit one punch, charge it and panther offset. Run behind the enemy. Punch again to their backside, causing them to stagger-turn to you without parrying. Now they are facing you, but kick is unparryable, so use K. which will stagger them again even tho they are facing you. Now finish with P for launch. Similar techniques can be used in bayo 2 to juggle enemies 100 to 0 without using bracelet of time or umbran climax. Enemies react different based on where you hit them, and with panther offset you can use that to your advantage.

The argument you're making is like going into God Hand and saying "look, i punched this mook three times and he parries me and did a bunch of jabs to my face. I can't use melee, all I can do is kite them and cheese with launhes."

Or even worse: "DMC is peak action because there are enemies that I can simply mash A&R's 5 hit combo on and they take every hit. DMC sucks when fighting chess pieces because the same 5 hit combo won't stagger."

Bayo's stun mechanics are more complicated than DMC's (outside of DT enemy). I prefer DMC, but don't be a dick.

Oh my god are you the same retard that tried to seriously argue that dodge offset is a bad mechanic?
Why does bayonetta make you seethe so much and why are you bad at action games that you'd be retarded enough to make such ridiculous arguments.
I dont even believe you like DMC and Ninja garden.

That webm only shows

zero hit reactions and how unreliable melee is in a game where the goal of every string lies in reaching its final hit to produce a Wicked Weave. Meaning you're better off just not engaging in melee combat whatsoever. It's much more effective and mechanically correct to hit air from afar until a weave comes out.

>sweep would be useless, but that is simply not the case

does nothing against half of the enemies

gets blocked just the same as other melee hits

against the enemies that it works on it just puts them in a downed state, which is not exclusive to the sweep

enemies can still block your attacks while being downed anyway, making it no different than a basic hitstun

plot twist: no other hit in any other string does anything of sort

Mechanically correct

that image.

I understand the urge to troll. It's what Anon Babble is built on, and I give you big ups for exercising your anarchistic urges!

However, if you actually do play these games, I urge you to give my flanking advice a try. Seriously, basically no one uses it or talks about it. I only did it on instinct in bayo 1 after emulating the techniques used in bayo 2 for juggling without witch time. It's very effective! But I gotta do more tests with other weapons/strings/enemies, and I'm not feeling like playing bayo atm.

I can't really address all your greentext since it's patently false and clear attempts at trolling. Good on you for keeping the thread bumped, but I encourage others to realize what's being said and engage accordingly.

he said this, as a DMCbab that cannot into fighting games or Sekiro/Nioh

DMC was only hard because the fixed camera angles during boss fights would switch without warning if you moved to certain locations in the arena, which completely fucked up your direction/positioning.

Bayo is only hard because enemies constantly attack you from off screen with no audio/video cues.

Meaning you're better off just not engaging in melee combat whatsoever. It's much more effective and mechanically correct to hit air from afar until a weave comes out.

No? I don't know how you can even say that when Bayonetta has multiple melee-focused weapons. Durga, Odette, Shuraba, and especially Sai Fung all prove what you're saying wrong.

or if you hit an enemy in the back. No one talks about this last point.

No one talks about it because it's not representative of how the game is played.

kick is unparryable, so use K

Sounds like a design oversight more than anything that is not even true as I just checked and they do parry the kick when they you.

The argument you're making is like going into God Hand

The argument is true for Bayo and isnt for God Hand.

just like you can HSK cancel every non-demon boss against a wall and spam wind path-wind run - OLUT

Azel doesnt, the robot boss doesnt, Conchita doesnt, and other bosses literally zap out all the time so you have to react and positiion yourself accordingly to continue the HSK spam. Both games offer more than that anyway, such a weird false equivalence when Bayo is meant to be played that way and every single mechanic pretty much hints at that.

Bayo's stun mechanics

Literally every single attack in DMC games has its own stun/knockback/launch value so yeah... I doubt.

I can practically smell the smug BO coming off of your post. You probably can't smell it, because you breathe exclusively through your mouth, but it's definitely there.

I'll just make things up via greentext

that will show him

You probably actually believed this when you were typing it.

But.... You don't need items to even beat the games. Like at all. You literally don't need items. Holy shit, you're a faggot. You suck at games and you're a faggot!

It's just another term that sweaty Anon Babbleirgins came up with to sound intellectual in their approach to hating everything. Like "artificial difficulty". Another one I heard recently is "dishonest game design", in reference to the use of camera angles in Resident Evil.

Almost like the reason it was called character action was because it was an action game that was designed around the moveset of a specific character and their traits.

why are you bad at action games

Funny you say that when my Bayo gameplay is identical to high level stuff because the game has such an extremely low skill ceiling.

Ninja garden is definitely hard too hard, it drains the fun out of it

My gameplay is identical to high level gameplay

I can't actually prove it, so you just have to accept that it's true

DMC1 is hard if you play it first time and don't button mash or know the weakness of every enemy since most enemies can be finished off super easily if you know a trick like the scissor guys.

I urge you to give my flanking advice a try

all other enemies will dodge after a few hits. But arodrs can be quite literally stunlocked with pppp-set swap-pppp spam if you get behind them. Doesn't sound very mechanically interesting or effective to me if you ask me anyway.

Most, perhaps. Definitely not all. For instance, there are two versions of the "scissor guys". One is definitely not like the other. And the difficulty scaling is obscene.

point and laugh at the retard, he is using items in these games and complains they are not hard

Dynasty Warriors is better

Imagine using items in DMC3. Just imagine.

Couldn't you just do a helm breaker on the scissor guys and it'd kill them instantly?

Ninja Gaiden 2 is the best action game of all time, end of story!

I don't know how you can even say that

Refer to the fucking webm above.

What about the webm? Again, do you seriously believes it proves that melee is "detrimental" and "dysfunctional" in any way? Because it doesn't. At that point, you might as well post a webm of an enemy in Ninja Gaiden randomly dodging your attack and claim that melee is "useless" or whatever.

Building muscle memory for offsets is all it takes bro, after that you just do your best to not engage in melee combat with the enemies which is easier done than said. You can do it too.

more retarded false equivalences

Read the first sentence of

all your greentext since it's patently false

Also what's false there?

Not this one. This guy could survive a few Killer Bee hits while DT'd. And that was on Normal. Like I said, the difficulty scaling was insane. On Hard, this officially became a filter fight. On DMD, it was like stupid, because it could DT and start regaining health, not to mention do hyperstupid damage, and that drill attack would track much better.

Well then go do that and jack off to your own superiority. But apparently, you'd rather wine on Anon Babble. Probably because you don't actually play games, and if you did, you'd be mediocre at best. I know this because you're complaining about the availability of items.

I still need to beat DMC1 on DMD, I beat it on hard but left it there. I remember Nelo 3 and Nightmare being hard on normal but then on hard they were a lot easier because I had way more moves and knew how the back and forth between Nelo worked.

I am not the OP, dumdum.

If you go back to DMD, just be ready. Basically, the games is scaled so that Dante is always a cut above his enemies, and you just build yourself up as the game allows, and you will generally stay ahead of the curve.
On DMD, you have to build him up to be on par with the things he's fighting. But you never quite get on par with any of the boss characters.

You're just as retarded and full of yourself as the OP, so you may as well be, fagtardicus.

trying to get Hard NG KMS time down in God Hand

practicing Death Shudder

running to reposition

see and hear amazon cue for an attack that will definitely hit me even running

backflip

the moment I hit the stick hear Tiger Joe leap off her back offscreen

die to the divekick

FUCK YOU TIGER JOE
FUCK YOU A MILLION TIMES
JUST STAY IN YOUR CORNER UNTIL I'M DONE WITH YOUR ADDS

bump

How is DMC 5 compared to the other games in the series?

it's piss easy and they make you play as the shittiest character ever designed in a video game. you constantly fight walls instead of bosses. the few bosses who aren't walls will teleport away from you every 10 seconds for an epic cinematic moment. every change from dmc4 is a strict downgrade that makes the game shallower and more boring. it feels like you're moving through molasses at all times and gravity doesn't exist. the story is laughable. half the levels are flat arenas connected by hallways and they have no artistic differences because every level is either city or flesh tree. everything about the plot is copied from dmc1 or 3 and done infinitely worse.
other than that it's a lot like dmc4.

Much better

Bloody Palace Simulator 2019

I usually love character action games, but most of the DMC series just didn't feel right to me. 4 had some awful bosses. 3's biggest problem was that some enemies' attacks were practically impossible to avoid, especially if you weren't using Trickster. 2 was just trash through and through. 1 is probably my favorite, although it still isn't perfect.
Bayonetta and MGR:R are two of my favorite games of all time.

Meh.
Worst camera in the series.
You spend like 50% of the game playing Nero, but he gained like 2 moves (both of which don't do anything his old moves did) that aren't tied to consumables you can't rotate between without using them up. Despite claims they removed items to cut down on menuing, if you want to actually play around with his arms and not just spam the light action on the same arm forever, it has the most menuing in the series since the game spawns less arms on higher modes.
When you play V it just sucks because V sucks. The bird is offscreen almost all the time and it doesn't really feel like you're doing anything using it and the dog resets actions with every dodge (bird does this on double jump) making it unsatisfying to use. Both die in 1 hit on the harder modes. Literally 1 hit. His DT can take 5 seconds + to spawn in and act and DT gauge is not paused during this, so you basically need ot buy the "it uses less DT" upgrade for it to even remotely function and even when it does, you're just waiting for it to do the laser move because its the best one by far.
Donte is fun and clearly had the most effort put into him, but you ironically barely get to fucking play him and he mostly has incredibly boring, copy paste fest maps. He has literally 1 good map. He's also, despite being fun by DMC5 standards, fairly boring by series standards because nearly everything he does is overpowered. Double Kalina Ann is overpowered, the hat is overpowered, the fist and its ability to hard-stun every basic enemy in the entire game in seconds even on DMD is broken, etc etc

Its the only game in series I didn't beat on DMD because I just got fucking bored

since the game spawns less arms on higher modes

I didn't beat on DMD

kek DMD doesnt have pickups at all

DMC didn't click

Bayo and MGR:R are my favorites

You need trickster to avoid attacks

DMC's just not nearly as intuitive as the games you're used to. Jump is your primary defensive option with lots of i-frames, and jump cancels with enemy step are essential, but the game never really teaches you anything about that.

DMC5 is definitely the easiest of the modern DMC games, but that's because there's less time-wasting horseshit like fucking Blitzes and larger windows on things like jump cancels or ACT.

he gained two moves

yeah, really really important ones that round out his kit. Hard Way lets you follow up streak without needing to knuckle and Payline is a fucking divekick.

bawwwww arms are too much menuing

There's custom loadouts for a reason and slapping together one on the fly takes no time at all.

V sucks

V's not great but it sounds like you were also shit at using him because you didn't mention feeding DT to the pets at all. That's how you do damage and have them survive more than one hit. Nightmare is best used to revive the pets. I can see how you'd be bored playing the way you did.

Dante's maps are copy-paste!

On PC you can play anywhere you want and who gives a shit about the map

I'm also pretty annoyed that no one talking about DMC5 has yet mentioned that there's fucking online Co-op.

I'm also pretty annoyed that no one talking about DMC5 has yet mentioned that there's fucking online Co-op.

Isn't there fucking PvP too?

There's custom loadouts for a reason and slapping together one on the fly takes no time at all.

Doesn't make it enjoyable

V's not great but it sounds like you were also shit at using him

Doesn't matter, he holds no appeal to me

who gives a shit about the map

Me

action game that was designed around the moveset of a specific character and their traits.

That's literally every action game. There's no need to use that idiotic character action term. Every action designs around their main protagonist(s) just some do it better than others.

difficulty scaling is obscene.

It's not.

helm breaker scissor guys and it'd kill them instantly?

Won't instant kill but very effective yes.

chose to respond this way instead of "Actually, yes I do."

I wonder why.

On PC you can play anywhere you want and who gives a shit about the map

games that need modders to fix obvious problems are de facto not good games
5 with the sssiyan table is a great game. that's embarrassing. why do i need to install cheat engine to make the playstation game work properly

I'm also pretty annoyed that no one talking about DMC5 has yet mentioned that there's fucking online Co-op.

in like 2 levels and one person has to play as V

I don't really have aproblem with your position but repetitively responding to everything with an image meant to project smug confidence while provoking others, well it's a bit transparent and pathetic

It's not? Okay, you got start a game from scratch on DMD and get back to me. Let's have some gameplay webms while you're at it.

4 had some awful bosses.

False.

3's biggest problem was that some enemies' attacks were practically impossible to avoid

They have consistent tells and dont attack off screen. You have no excuse.

practically impossible to avoid, especially if you weren't using Trickster.

Jump cancels for i-frames.

2 was just trash through and through.

True

1 is probably my favorite.

Good.

although it still isn't perfect.

You're a complete idiot and please leave this genre for good.

dont attack off screen.

Fuck you, this is blatantly false.

Did you play on mute

sssiyan table

I was referring just to co-op/divergence, actually

only two levels!

see co-op/divergence.
Not my fault you got the game on a console for babies

make an extremely aggressive and elitist post when you don't even actually play hard games

get called out

call other people pretentious and pathetic

Actual, literal projection. Apply yourself.

playstation babbies will never know what it's like to co-op bloody palace

KYS

You couldn’t be a bigger kike faggot if you tried. Go ahead and report me you beta male nigger loving faggot. Nuke Israel. TKD. ALL FIELDS

That was my first post of the thread anon.
Good job resisting not attaching another anime girl though, unless you go on to respond to this with one just to show uncontrollable you are (checkmate!)

I was referring just to co-op/divergence, actually

wow that changes everything.

Not my fault you got the game on a console for babies

how the fuck would i know which cheat tables are good if i got it on playstation you dumb bitch
the point is the game should just be good without cheat tables. they pulled it off multiple times before.
how fucking stupid are the developers that they implemented co-op with good netcode and don't let you do it in any level you want or bloody palace?

how the fuck would i know which cheat tables are good if i got it on playstation you dumb bitch

You wouldn't, you're a baby, I don't expect you to understand anything

Vergil would not say that, as easy as it is to read in his voice
Way too direct and leftist-tier longwinded for him

DMC's approach to offense is way better than Bayo's dated mortal kombat ass dial-a-combo string structure
That is my contribution to this argument

bump

using items

Everyone says this but then they fight Arkham then they don't care.

True

who is "everyone"?

Who the fuck buys items for action games?

The guy above you.
It's do that or jump around for 8 minutes.

The only action game that I truly feel is ruined by its difficulty is Ninja Gaiden 2. The whole game is about spamming i-frames to deal with the overload of enemies throwing shit at you from every angle in every encounter

he didn't have a friend to join in before the last stage and then take turns fighting vergil

only if you play master ninja (which is miserable since the game is not designed for it) but in black mn is kino

other difficulties of ng2 are good too

I liked Very Hard in Black a lot more than Master Ninja. Less ogres, more swarms.