WeII?

If I cant beat it without looking up a walkthrough it sucks.

It's okay to fail

No, The Guide tells you all you need

yes
and there's nothing wrong with that

It kills all the magic.

It only works if devs use normal logic, and not some alien moon logic that makes you invent new curse words when you give up and read the wiki.

To add to this
Noita
Slay the Spire
Risk of Rain

Curious how it's mostly indie developers who rely on this shit too. Almost like they're scared of having accessible games.

Playing on normal, you can totally wing it and beat all content just using the guide to look at recipes. I'd argue that's when the game is the most fun, when you don't know what everything does and you're throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

The problem is new players jump straight into expert/master, even though those were both explicitly created for people who'd already been playing for nearly half a decade and have a solid grasp on optimal gearing, buffing, and arenas.

I mean, it's even in the name. It's not hard/very hard, it's expert/master. Implying it's for people who are already familiar with the game, not just a harder challenge for more skilled players.

A wiki does help with progression but with any game comes learning gamesense and intuition, which isn't something you can get from a wiki.

yes
it's also a bloat game

if you needed a wiki to play the souls games you are genuinely retarded.

How are you meant to know all the stat softcaps, and weapon requirements and illusionary walls that look exactly like normal walls without living on the wiki?
Do you just roll into every single wall you see?
How are you meant to know that Resistance is useless and Adaoptility is vital?

i made a game with an in-game wiki. it unlocks new pages as you progress and has nice features like the pipette key working to quickly pull whatever crafting material out of your inventory
fans have made like 3 unofficial wikis, all of them have less information than pressing F1 in game

crickets

How are you meant to know all the stat softcaps

experimentation.

weapon requirements

the game literally tells you.

illusionary walls that look exactly like normal walls

gee i don't know, maybe the 5 messages outside every single illusionary wall that say "illusionary wall".

How are you meant to know that Resistance is useless and Adaoptility is vital?

the game literally tells you.

If a dev puts in an illusory wall, why is your first reaction EVERYONE NEEDS TO FIND THIS!!!!!!!

How are you meant to know all the stat softcaps

you dont need to know those

and weapon requirements

look at the weapons retard

and illusionary walls

they are meant to be hidden

Do you just roll into every single wall you see?

every suspicious wall, yeah
you stupid faggot nigger

Noita

wiki

For what purpose?

kinda yeah, it's shittily designed

Dudebro nigger tranny pajeet.

Noita is literally designed for anything but the most basic ending to not be solvable by a player without outside resources. It's built around the ARG which means once people stop digging it's built around reading up what they found on a wiki

I would describe pre-2014 minecraft like this but definitely not terraria

how are you supposed to know every little detail and secret in the entire game before even playing it once?!

You're not. You're supposed to be surprised and learn and figure things out. You're supposed to miss things the first time and discover more on repeat playthroughs. Why are zoomers so obsessed with perfectly 100%ing every single game on the very first attempt?

There is no way to find out that your iframes change with your equipment load in DS1 aside from learning it somewhere that's not in the game itself.

but it doesn't matter

Obvious it does when the fast roll iframes became the standard because everybody went fast roll and bashed DS2 as LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE because of agility.

Cheeky.

Yes.
Anyone who says to use the guide hasn't tried; it's fucking awful.

souls

Trail and error.
Souls is semi-wiki for me.
I would never EVER read the wiki on a first play through. But on subsequent plays I use the wiki to create specific themed characters.

Who cares what matters to scrubs unable to adapt though?

Yes. And its fucking aids and the reason I dropped it. You can't reasonably expect me to find half the shit in the game without having to alt tab to find what the next step is.
Offloading your design responsibilites to google is NOT game design

This, why are people too retarded to talk to the guide?

you don't understand anon! it's a "community effort"!

Your post doesn't make any sense

I used to spend so much time poking holes in every aspect of a game when I was kid. Any time I see people talking about having to use a wiki or being afraid to “miss content” on their first playthrough I hope to fucking God it’s some 40 year old dude with eight kids just trying to enjoy his small amount of free time and not a teenager.

Games aren't about figuring out how the tools/items work. Its figuring out how to use them in the best ways.
Terraria has gotten a lot better but its still a much more time consuming way to use the vague in game ways of figuring shit out instead of just looking up the exact things needed to be done. You definitely can still do pretty much the main game blind but you'd miss out on a ton of shit if you didn't at least check a few mechanics in a guide.
Wiki games are shit like weapon stats are hidden or ability descriptions are hidden or replaced with just flavor text. Me wasting time testing out something just to see its effect when that effect could have been explained instantly with a few numbers.

wow and poe

Finding enjoyment in learning, discovery, and trial and error is literally a white trait. It's the browns and blacks that all demand instant gratification and will cheat at anything just to win.

THERE'S NO FUCKING APACHE YOU LIAR

terraria x palworld will make it real

Not anymore.
You got the Guide and the bestiary.
That's all you need.

B’okay!

His UI is fucking awful and the advice he gives isn't particularly helpful.
It's better than something like Nethack in that you could actually beat the game (without too much trouble) using the Guide. But it's just a miserable experience interacting with him, and feels just as forced and unnatural as a wiki to boot.

You don't need to know about the i-frames to realize you move a lot faster with a lower roll weight in DS1.

Yes. Terraria is a checklist simulator: you read the wiki, see all the steps you need to take and in what order, and then you take them in order.

Games aren't about figuring out how the tools/items work.

He says in a thread for a game that's about figuring out how the tools/items work.

play the game normally

wow that looks cool it’s a gun that shoots bees haha

im going to buy a giant house in the snow biome!

play the game as a job

okay so the wiki said this isn’t good I need to do x and y and merge them to get z and if I do it 7 more times I can get this sword which is the best in the game

I’ll just use teleporters to get to places there is no reason exploring the map I know where everything I want is

im having so much fun treating this game like a job

Not a single developer designs their games with the intention of having you stare at a wiki instead of playing it

There are entire games whose informational encyclopedia literally links to an online wiki lol

"Wiki games" used to be the norm. Games had manuals that explained you how to beat everything and you had Nintendo build their games around you buying Nintendo magazines and calling their game help center.

Which game?

I enjoy exploring, but I get my most fun out of these games by upgrading my shit.
I'm currently playing Subnautica for the first time and a recipe required magnetite. I made an attempt to try and look for it normally but after some time I gave up and watched a video. I'm glad I did because now I have the upgraded scanner and I can just scan for whatever shit I need.

I get this and I agree with you, but my time is limited. I can't play these long ass games multiple times because I have a bunch of long ass games waiting in my backlog. So I sacrifice the element of surprise in exchange for a more complete single playtrough.

Why are zoomers so obsessed with perfectly 100%ing every single game on the very first attempt?

They're trying to play all new releases and play all the good games from before they were cognizant in order to minmax novel experiences.

LE POST DOESN'T MAKE LE SENSE!!!

Your skin is the color of shit!

Your skin is the color of shit!

You're right. Pic related.

been drinking again, eh?

Your brain is broken by FOMO.

zoomers so obsessed with perfectly 100%ing every single game on the first run

Why would I want to play a game again when most of it will be the same? I'm not the other guy and I've never played souls but even most games that have different build ideas are so stupid to play multiple times in quick succession. Maybe after a period of time and you don't have a fresh idea of it in your head sure but thinking "Hmm I'm not going to bother to see everything this game has to offer because I'll just do it again anyway" is just lazy.

Why slog through an entire game all over again just so I can see 10% of the different stuff that you skipped the first time? Or even worse then the game specifically locks this shit out so you're forced to do it again. I'm specifically talking about shit like dumb ass NG+ exclusive content where they also reset your entire level and quests.

I think people that want repayable games are just depressed losers that want to do the same thing over and over again for the comfort of knowing exactly how it works so they don't need to worry about change. A good game let's me enjoy everything it has to offer in one great fantastic run.

play the game normally

wow that looks cool it's a gun that shoot bees haha

but I don't have bees and I don't know where to find them, I wonder if I'll discover it at some point

wait the game is over, what was the bee gun all about if the game didn't have any bees?

oh, you had to build your house in the warm biome to be able to get them and all the other cool stuff, apparently it unlocked the bee ending I could've gotten... I could've had so much fun if only I knew

shartynigger

Your brain is broken by porn of a pink cartoon bear.

I think people who can only play a game once are faggots just looking to check off a box and call it a day

Totally depends on the game.
I agree with you for the most part, but there are games that will be dramatically different for different playthroughs. For example a 1 INT vs non 1 INT Fallout playthrough.
The problem is most devs just make things 'missable content' instead of 'this changes the content'. Making choices should give you significantly different experiences, not just a punishment for failing a roll/to find the hidden entrance.
The part about a good game letting you enjoy everything in one run is just fucking wrong though. RPGs are terrible in this way, it's the Bethesda problem where you're fucking everything instead of actually playing a role, then doing something completely different your next playthrough.

modern minecraft is a wiki game. They exist.

its kind of a factorio game, but every recipe is a zachtronics puzzle

literally terraria

Terraria

wiki game

Lmao.

shartytroon

There is no such thing as a wiki game.
There are only zoom-zooms with no attention span and people who value their time, but they barely ever play video games in the first place.

Bot nonsense

Regarding the wikis, you should make one yourself outside of the game. People like to look stuff up when not playing a game.

I agree with you on that. The idea would be you're not replaying the game for a tiny portion, but an entirely different thing with bigger routes and options. I should have specified that by getting 100% of game, its by doing all that. Seeing every thing there is to see, not just getting to the end of the game. Ideally I'd love to do it all along the way but as you said in some instances you can't.
I think Fallout is both a good and bad example. Because in the later ones you get dumb shit where you're given the illusion of choice, but it wraps around to the same outcome anyway. Imagine playing a game again to see what the different option was and all you get was a different quote form your character that ends up in the same place as before.

I used to try to 100% every game every time when I was younger. I didn't use guides to do it, but I played VERY meticulously, leave no stone unturned, do every single sidequest, talk to every single NPC multiple times, all that shit. Eventually, I got burned the fuck out by this style of playing. These days I just play games normally, I'll skip uninteresting sidequests, I won't be bothered if I miss something, and I just go through the game until the end. It's fun when I talk to my friends and they mention something they found and I missed or vice versa and we can talk about our unique experiences. I don't replay games often, but allowing myself to miss things does make any replays more fun, too, because that means there will be new things to find and stuff to experiment with.

that's is literally you btw
nice tranny website you got there

I was specifically referring to the original Fallout, later games are excellent examples of how it's done wrong.

THERE'S NO UPDATE, NOTHING YOU CAN DO THAT WILL GET AN APACHE IN TERRARIA

Didn't they literally add a built-in crafting book recently? Haven't played in millenia but back in the day you'd barely be able to even figure out how to make a pickaxe without looking it up.

Look up online how to fix your broken washing machine irl.

BASED smartipants DIV gigachad!!! Sharing informations worldwide to advance humanity is what the internet was made for.

Look up online how to find the best weapon in a game.

ZOOMER AUTIST!!! YOU CAN'T JUST LOOK UP HOW TO DO SOMETHING IN A VIDEO GAME EVEN THOUGH LOOKING UP ONLINE HOW TO DO ILR STUFF IS OK!!!

Why are brown kikes like this?

They've made it much better but it still has wiki aspects, like the Nether portal.
It was designed from the ground up as a wiki game though, where you were supposed to learn by google and patch notes.

No u!

DIV

lmao outing yourself as fucking ESL
The difference is one is saving money and learning a useful skill, the other is depriving yourself of a challenge and cheapening the experience.

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.

You didn't grow.

You didn't improve.

You took a shortcut and gained nothing.

You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.

It's sad you don't know the difference.

Why slog through an entire game

That's your problem. You clearly hate video games if you call playing them a slog. Like the other guy said, you just want to check off a box that you played something.

looking up how to solve a real-world problem that makes your life worse

looking up the solution to a game where the point is to figure it out

These are definitely the same thing.

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.

You didn't grow.

You didn't improve.

You took a shortcut and gained nothing.

You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.

It's sad you don't know the difference.

But you are cheating yourself out of the "challenge" too if you look up online how to repair stuff irl.

Why slog through an entire game AGAIN

Missing the key word AGAIN there pal. I already had a great time playing the game. Why would doing it again in a slight variation give me the same fun? Do you read books twice and get the same joy? Do you enjoy puzzles games again knowing all the answers?
I want to see all the game has to offer, going through all the challenges and obstacles a second time knowing how to beat them is a slog, and I shouldn't need to do that just to see a small bit of difference that I wasn't able to see the first time.

can't recognize a decade old copypasta

it's over

bees only spawn in the overworld in the warm biome

Beekeeper NPC in warm biome tells you he might be able to sell you some of his hives if your home was more hospitable

Greyed out section of the animal husbandry tab in your home building UI, between Anteaters and Capybaras, suspiciously bee shapesd

Zoomers will insist the only way to know about this mechanic is by reading the wiki

Ignoring the fact that whoever wrote the wiki would have had to find that out independently without a wiki themselves

How heavy was that goalpost to move?

minutes

Do you read books twice and get the same joy?

Yep, you're an actual retard.

Some people value their time. I don't want to spend 20 hours trying to figure out how to make a mid sword.

You don't need one to "play" them but if you intend to talk to anyone about them you better not sound like a fucking scrub who didn't beat the game. You WILL be publicly humiliated for using things you're not supposed to be using.

This is such a strange mentality when you think of people who replay classic games every year as a tradition because they consider the game FUN, and then you have people like this who consider anything after a single playthrough a SLOG.
Are you just playing shit games? Is your brain just fried?

I didn't know brown people like you could read.

You WILL be publicly humiliated for using things you're not supposed to be using.

By who? Tryhard faggots? Big whoop.

We the souls community demand to be taken seriously at all times.

Well you can only read your picture books once because doing so twice would be a SLOG.

discussing videogames with other people

what a scrub, lol

Stardew Valley

Utterly stupid. Nothing in Stardew requires a wiki, the villagers are competently written enough that they'll tell you what they like, as you level up friendship they'll gift you things they tend to appreciate back (some exceptions) and the recipes they give you they almost always love.
None of the community center requires a wiki, there is no time limit in the game so being optimal doesn't matter. The library books you dig up tell you everything about the archaic parts of the game including everywhere you can catch the legendary fish. Everything else is straightforward.
You only need a wiki if you want to absolutely everything about everyone instantly so you can max them out fast.

Comparing that to Terraria where a huge amount of content is so hidden or vague is so retarded

Ignoring the fact that whoever wrote the wiki would have had to find that out independently without a wiki themselves

Are you retarded? Do you know what datamining is? Do you know what CE is? Holy shit you retards are insufferable.
Also

implying there is an NPC you can talk to in these wikinigger games

implying there are skill trees, UI's, tooltips

implying I would ever read the wiki rather than dropping the game for ignoring game design responsibiliy.

If your game doesn't tell me what things do or intuively communicates them, i'm dropping that shit.

Its a slog for me because I do everything the first time, do it once do it right is my motto. I do every quest and speak to every NPC and do all that. Why wouldn't I? Why would I intentionally chose not to enjoy every part of the game? I know all the is to do, I know the lines and story and everything.
Now when I say playing a game again I really mean like right away, like you finished the credits and then started again for some dumb ass NG+ exclusive content or to use say a different build or something. Just insanity to me.
If someone truly feels that after a year they've forgotten enough about the game for it to still feel refreshing then sure good for them. For me it'd take way longer for me to want to 100% a game all over again, and even then most of the time I think of all the tedium it took to get 100% in the first place which turns me off.
I think people that overly replay games never actually do everything in the game and just keep playing under the guise that they'll find something new every time but then just put it down once they get bored each time.

Qud

Tell me you've never played a Roguelike anon. Dying to some retarded unknown monster you've never seen before is standard practice, long before wikis were ever a thing. The whole idea is that you build your knowledge base over multiple playthroughs, not google everything beforehand.

How am I meant o know that the best way of making money is ancient fruit wine without reading the wiki?

If you think all the data on wikis is mined then I know for a fact you have never been involved in helping maintain one for a game.

Dieing because you failed a knowledge check isn't very fun.

See:

there is no time limit in the game so being optimal doesn't matter.

Yes, very much so. You'll never find or realize half the shit you can get in the game without it. I would say thats the fun though because you can find out recipes and progression ingame via the guide, or just stumble upon things. I still find little things in the game here or there that are in vanilla that i've never seen before and I have over 2000 hours.

Sure, but it's the nature of the genre. You are expected to die the first time you encounter something, or otherwise protect yourself with failsafes or escape options. Once you know what every monster can do you have all the tools you need to beat the game, googling shit in a wiki defeats the exercise.

do it once do it right is my motto

So you really are just playing games to check off a box that says "I completed it" and never have to touch it again.
You should really find some way to get the joy back in your life.

Too true. I also hate it when I get run over by someone in a tank in Terraria, sucks.

Completing it is the fun though. I'm not going to force myself to do it just for some arbitrary "I did it". The game should be so enjoyable for me that I want to do all it has to offer. I just like to do that in one big session instead of doing it over and over with slight variances. Its like I enjoy it so much I just want to be super emersed in it and see everything it has because I want to, because I like the game and want to see it all, the thrill of seeing all it has to offer. The thrills gone once I've seen it already so why see it again?
If I don't enjoy a game that much I'll just rush to the credits and skip stuff, and if I really hate I'll just drop it.

A zoomer list. All you had to say was Binding of Isaac, you had ONE job.

the reason the devs even introduced the bestiary, taming and other in-game catalog UIs five years after the game's release is so people stop complaining about it

it STILL doesn't explain anything about turning bees into bee ammo because that's beyond the scope of those catalogs

everyone who complains about bee gun being useless are met with "well you don't NEED it to finish the game" remarks by the battered wife community who had all five fan wikis the games has open on second monitor for five years straight

there are autists out there who willingly spend their time ingame without external tools taking down notes and reloading saves and then uploading the information to the internet

and they do this daily

Wow. I guess I've really been humbled or whatever.

nta, but have you ever replayed a game multiple times?

Yeah heaven forbid someone have fun playing a videogame and share what they learned about it online.

Does Isaac even have weapons, builds and minmax stuff?
I thought it is just top down shooter.

Only when I was a kid and couldn't just go buy new games and that was mostly because I was shit at games and never did everything in them anyway. But that was mostly with large spaces between them, like a few years kind of thing.

Do you not have that one favorite game that you return to every couple of years then? What a sad and lonely existence. I wish you the best, anon, I wish for you to start to feel again.

yes
he's pretty useless, the only good function he has is showing what can be made of items you have. Only problem is he doesn't tell you how to get the items you need. Being told I need a broken hero sword is useless unless I already know its a rare drop from solar eclipse monsters

playing≠testing variables
Also you're full of shit. Only the most indie unkown games don't have external tools, and only the most retarded subhuman wiki editors (and that's saying something) don't use them.

No. It's a Summoner Steam Guide game.

this is why i refuse to buy stardew valley

Unironically, I wish I coluld return and replay some of my old games, but there are so many great games that I have yet to play that I just don't have time to replay anything.

You really need to put down this checklist mentality, it will ruin you and your enjoyment of games before you know it.

Honestly, how do I stop myself from being a wikifag.
I just compulsively look on the wiki and skin trough the best items, artifacs and builds before playing the game. I just can't controil myself to NOT use the wiki. I have done this ever since I started using the internet and finding out wikis exist.

there are so many great games that I have yet to play

What are some of the games you plan to play next? It's being nothing but Hunt Showdown with bros for me lately with occasional dabbling into Oblivion Remastered (I'll probably just mod the hell out and replay the original soon though)

It's not even a checklist mentality. It's just wanting to experience every single game I see online for myself. My backlog is massive and only keeps growing eternally. Little time for replays, especially with all the different old games I wanna replay again.
When I do replay old games, it's usually just short <20 hors games.

Oblivion, Stellaris, The Doors of Trithius, Monomyth, The Bloodline, Soulash 2, Streets of Rogue 2, Fantasy life 3 if it is good, some old games that I wanna replay.

played terraria 1.1 when I was offline innawoods, in my opinion it is not a wiki game

Also wouldn't say Terraria was a wiki game, except for maybe getting Zenith.
But other games are.

Start doing it for movies and TV shows. You'll realize you're robbing yourself of every digital experience you could possibly ever enjoy with wikifagging, and then you'll naturally stop doing it.

People need to stop being terminally online

Why should I do this?
there are no builds and important descisions to be made in movies and TV shows.
Instead, I like to read the wiki AFTER watching the thing for movies and TV shows.

stop playing games where you need to devote 100 hours to grinding a "build", and then it takes another 100 hours if you want to swap builds

stop playing rpg slop then

I think I need to change my own mindset to that I don't need perfection and it is better to have a suboptimal but wiki-free playtrough than an optimal playtrough but with a wiki, at least for the first time playing the game.
But I don't know how to rewire my brain like that.

Yes. I assume that a 'wiki game' doesn't mean needing a walkthrough to just get to the end. I understand a 'wiki game' as a game you can still play, enjoy, and finish, but if you play blind you lose 1/3rd of the content without even realizing.

If the game you're playing is remotely well-designed, you're not gonna get softlocked out of everything by 1 bad decision in the first place.

Lol. Nice bait

the fact gachas have better wikis than popular games is sad

do zoomers really expect to beat every game on their first try without any failures or missing a single secret?

The Souls games

I played them all blind on release. I don't get how retards can play souls games following guides when 90% of the fun is exploring the unknown.

how am I supposed to enjoy video games if devs don't hand me the source code

You aren't supposed to know any of this. You are supposed to work with what you learn during your playthroughs. It's funny how zoomers think they always have to min-max in games otherwise they are playing them wrong.

It varies. With DST you will miss like half of the content, and like 90% of end-game content, and like 100% of end-game content that was added later with updates.

It's rarer that you miss out on say a quest because you chose the wrong option, choices never matter. It's more likely you miss out because you didn't go to the optional area and now that you missed it you must do a second run to see it.

There are now unfinished nether portals in the overworld that also have a chest with flint and steel in them. Still pretty obtuse but now it's not literally impossible if you're playing the game completely blind

It was designed from the ground up as a wiki game though, where you were supposed to learn by google and patch notes.

wrong. this is just your own zoomer perspective, as someone who wasn't there.
it was just a game. not a "wiki game".

Do you read books twice and get the same joy?

lol, a good book is even better the second time
post hand

I value my time. Some devs want me to replay a 50 hour game after learning there's a Lockpicking 10 door I should have speced for, 20 hours in, that can save Farmer John and let me continue his quest. Fuck that.

Minecraft was absolutely made with the expectation you followed out of game information, that's why there wasn't even any in-game indication of what a given item even fucking was until tooltips were added with the move to beta a year after first release.

what a zoomer thing to say
back in the day 80% of games you'd have to read manual and learn stuff about the game from it to be able to really play it

Note that ruined portals have crying obsidian in them specifically to prevent making one usable by just patching the holes (because of speedrunning, or some shit)

Back in the day, games that did this were 10 hours long at best if you knew what you were doing, that's why.

doesn't mean it was a "wiki game" in 2010 kid

I don't like "fail until you make it" if the game is clearly meant to be played for a longer period of time and isn't a roguelite. Roguelikes themselves had that just to artificially extend the playtime.

No one wants you to replay the whole game for that. It's just your wiki-brain neurotically telling you that "if you didn't do it 100% optimally, you did it all wrong".
Thinking about it now, it probably even applies to other areas of life too...

How are you meant to know to build a 2x3 obsidian frame and light a fire in the moiddle to access the Nether?

How are you meant to know to throw and follow the Ender eyes until you find the spot they are flying towards, then digg down, find the frame and then add the eyes to the frame to fight the dragon?

How are you meant to know any of the crafting recipees without outsider information?

You had to use online help to play old Minecraft.

They did it because it's unironically much better to have a manual to read from than displaying the info in game on retarded tutorial pop ups. You can have a nice looking immersive interface if you have all the information easily accessible outside the game.
Today people have ADD and games have to cater to the lowest common denominator so not only did digital kill paper manuals, you can't have a separate in game manual either because the players can't read.

Not really. I just asked the neighbor's kid.

That's still using out of game meta knowledge.
Without out of game meta knowledge, I don't think you can beat Minecraft.
Minecraft is a major wiki game.

No just people are lazy and want everything given to them.

There is no way to find out that your iframes change with your equipment load in DS1

Yes there is, look at your animations

Trying shit out?
PLAYING THE GAME? I know this is Anon Babble and that you faggoids don't play videogames, BUT COME FUCKING ON.

Yeah bunch of obscure useful recipes

I thought it is just top down shooter.

Just play 3 minutes of the game and you'll understand why it's a wiki game.
You literally need to play with your browser open unless you download a tooltip mod that tells you what every item actually fucking does.

What about just trial-and-erroring it?

me when i lie

All of these kind of games should have an in game "wiki" (it actually acts as a recollection of everything you've experienced) instead of being completely devoid of information

For a new player? Absolutely.
For a player that was there in the beginning and logged on for every update to make a new world? Of course not.

The problem is that the latter will insist that it isn't for everyone just because it isn't for them.

I am in the latter group but I am one of the ones who can see the truth.

I dont think I would have ever beaten the game on my first playthrough without some sort of guide. Especially when it comes to finding weapons to make boss fights easier and unlocking NPCs.

What about just trial-and-erroring it?

I could trial and error a nuclear bomb if you give me 2000 years to make it.

I think if I made a gamw, I would make an ingame "wiki". At the beginning, it just has pages for basic game concepts like stats and perks ut you unlock the pages of enemies after beating a certain amount of them, bosses after beating them the first time and NPCs after certain story events, so at the end, you will have the full wiki of the game.

Stellaris

Out of fucking everything.
Stellaris isn't a wiki game because Paradox wants to bloat their games.

after beating a certain amount of them

That's so fucking gay.
I hate this bestiary concept so fucking much.
If you want to make it progressive, just make the overall wiki resources to increase as you get more runs in.

Stardew Valley

Not for most things.

Caves of Qud

I only use the wiki when I'm wishing stuff.
You literally have books that can tell you everything you need to know about the game.

No way it's that complicated. There must be some "use item" button that you can just press for the lulz everytime you get something just to see what it does, no?

i'm pretty sure they do
imagine how fucking awful games would be if they got what they wanted

I think every game has to be accompanied by solid documentation. The documentation doesn't have to explain absolutely everything, as many things are made nebulous on purpose so that the player tries some experimentation to figure out how things work on their own, which is totally okay, but other than that, all the basics should be explained in a document.
Dwarf Fortress, for example, should come with a manual of at least 150 pages in which every interaction the author has created is explained. What the game has, however, is a shitty tutorial that's annoying to follow.

you just want the ark survival evoled dossier

False because if you were actually exploring and not being a wikifag you would find that sword and ask the guide what it builds naturally. If you didn't wikifag you wouldn't even know it's an item in the game or what its use is without outside knowledge. Checkmate retard.

One of the few games where there is actually zero downside to using the wiki because there is no fixed storyline with twists or characters or fixed locations to spoil.
I am really glad I read the stellaris wiki because otherwise, my enpire would have been a lot crappier.

Qud is roguelike babymode. The game tells you exactly when to run. You literally mouse over enemies and it tells you "Very Tough" or "Impossible". If something will cause instant death, it flashes red. If you die it's because you were playing impatiently, or your character didn't have a way to escape the fight.

In a few 100 hours you should know most of the stuff and item synergies supposing you never use any kind of wiki or guide. It's not that complicated or complex, just tedious.

Yes, I would do this.
You still get the wiki ingame, even if you play online, but there are no spoilers because you have to unlock the entries first, besides spoiler free stat, build and gameplay explainations which would be unlocked from the start.

Those are recovery animations, not iframes. Shorter recovery animation means you'll be able to regain control after your roll quicker, more iframes means you'll be invincible during the roll longer. One obviously changes with equip load but the other? You wouldn't know.

The guide tells you how to make everything now. You'd only need a wiki to find more obscure items.

What do you mean I have to experiment on my own and try things out for myself in this game I NEED to have everything done right with a guide

Only underageb& use those cat memes

Kenshi is a Wiki game
Starsector is a Wiki game
Rimworld is a Wiki game
Mass Effect is a Wiki game
Fallout is a Wiki game
Pathologic is a Wiki game
Dead Rising is a Wiki game
Pokemon is a Wiki game

Fallout

I suppose you're talking about the first ones (which i never bothered playing) because the others are easy enough you'd never need a guide to beat them.

You will need a wiki to minmax your build in New Vegas.
Alternatively, you would have to level up, scroll trough every single perk, pick out the 50 ones you want and then restart with the appropriate stats and skills this time.

You don't need to minmax to begin with.

truly spoken like someone who wasn't there

Wiki game

Min-Maxing fag slang

Mass Effect

da fuq?

and then restart

No. Kill yourself you retard, only autists do this.
Just play the fucking game.

Only games with cryptic shit need a wiki

Space Station 13 on pretty much every codebase. There are some retarded shit like assembly bombs and you need to heat them to 673.16 K with 100% plasma composition for the most effective explosion simply due to an if check. There is nothing in the game that tells you about this and is a completely arbitrary requirement not based on any reactions or anything.

Suicidie Mission

ss13 truly is the most wiki game of all time

I actually concede that ss13 is a wiki game, but only and entirely because you have some sort of obligation to not be a shitty co-worker and you're expected to know how to do your job or you're just making other people's experience worse.
Literally every single other game mentioned in this thread, if unironically not a wiki game. If you use the wiki for a single player game without having at least 20-40 hours in it, you genuinely need to spend time outside and unfuck your dopamine system.
Reminder that gamers used to bomb every wall in LOZ.

If you didn't use the wiki every single time you found something your little zoomie mind didn't immediately understand then you would realise Noita isn't a wiki game. Almost all the knowledge comes together after exploring.

If I didn't read the wiki, I wouldn't have known about the SPECIAL implants and have started with 10 strength, wasting 1 prescious SPECIAL point.

AAIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IF I DON'T HAVE THE PERFECT MOST OPTIMAL AND OVERKILL BUILD I'LL HECKIN' LOSE!

Binding of Isaac ?

Surely you're not just ignoring your crew because you didn't have a wiki telling you to interact with them, and it's really not that hard to get everyone through by yourself after a few tries

I only use wikis after banging my head against a problem for a decent length of time, half hour minimum, and I close the tab after getting my answer. This is a compromise between my desire to beat games blind and lack of patience/propensity to ragequit when frustrated.

This is probably not the ideal gamer method, but it is mine.

Unless you're a raging retard who ignores everyone's needs and had worms for brains then it shouldn't be THAT demanding to make the obvious decisions.

secrets should be designed to be found by attentive players, not by retards who walk and swing at walls

Make a mission designed around punishing a player who isn't taking it seriously, causing an emotional moment as you realize your lack of response caused lasting damage to your crew

Lol no I'm just gonna wiki how to not lose anyone and be the hero

You do realize the mindset is destroying gaming far more than 'wokeness' ever could right?

Yes!
I am very strict with myself and take gaming super seriously. Gaming is my passion.
I am also strict with myself outside of gaming. When I do any work, it has to be perfect.

It's because people like you Bad Endings are harder to get than Good Endings.

Look into the Freudian concept of anal retentiveness.
This mindset is likely destroying your relationships with those around and you preventing real romantic connections.

Yes just like Binding of Isaac

Game has no kind of New Game +

Fuck you, I'm not putting up with this

Look into the Freudian concept of anal retentiveness.

No, I will not look into whatever that disgusting fetish is, anon.

Do half of you faggots even enjoy video games? Why is nu Anon Babble like this? Fucking hell.

I actually concede that ss13 is a wiki game, but only and entirely because you have some sort of obligation to not be a shitty co-worker and you're expected to know how to do your job or you're just making other people's experience worse.

Mentality and playerbase issue

okay victim complex ass. most of the people itt are pushing back againt the idea of anything being a wiki game. you just bitch to bitch and you have no balls

Do you read books twice and get the same joy?

Please stick to watching sports on television

Do you read books twice and get the same joy?

yeah

If your game literally has items that link to wiki pages in game, then yes you can fairly call that game a wiki game. If it does not then it simply is not a wiki game, simple as.

Kenshi

Starsector

Incorrect, i finished both without having to glance at their wikies. They are intuitive and informative enough.

he can't replay Mario 64 for fun

Most roguelikes do not need a wiki to play them optimally

I would beat the shit out of you IRL if I ever met you and I wouldn't need a wiki to figure out the best way to fuck you up, how's that?

Reminder that gamers used to bomb every wall in LOZ

Yeah,
I'll bomb every wall,
Mine every rock,
Open every barrel and vase,
Look into every trash can.
Got a problem with it?

I started playing FFXI like 4 months ago after never having tried it ever and it is 100% a wiki game at this point. Maybe not the original game when there wasn't a billion items, but it for sure is right now.

letrollface.png

epic...

I agr-

The Souls games

This is either complete bait or you are actually fucking stupid

Post actual, REAL wiki games

Does hearing about the drake sword from IGN back in the day count as using the wiki?

Completing the original story and first two expansions is wiki-tier, but it gets easier to just play the game after that, although it is a dead game where you're meant to have a party full of people trying several things at the same time to figure something out.

yes, I didnt know how to get people to move in until I had to look it up

is X a wiki game?

No, you're just bad

press wasd to move

HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW

Runescape

Don't Starve.
It has so much trial and error gameplay combined with the fact that it isn't a quick 1 hour tops rougelike, but instead a multi hour survival game where so many things require you to think months ahead of time and there are so many basically mandatory interactions you'd never figure out by yourself.

bloatslop