Replaying Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim and man.... I think these games have aged so well...

Skyrim aged like shit. Completely unplayable without 10k mods that you spend 5 hours installing just to get to Whiterun and drop it.

Back in 2011 that world was very impressive and beautiful. We have since had much better worlds like Witcher 3 (not talking about gameplay, just the world feel). Skyrim doesn’t have much else going on. None of the Morrowind mechanics autism or Oblivion goofiness. Just kinda bland.

What's the matter? You can't stand the sight of a strong Nord woman?

Open world action that happens to have perks is not really an rpg. Morrowind is an rpg, Skyrim is like fantasy for shootbang bros.

I play other RPGs and they just don't even come close

This actually made me laugh, never played Baldur's Gate? Modded Skyrim is undoubtedly fun to sink into, but it clearly lacks depth for the genre.

Completely unplayable without 10k mods

Spoken like a true zoomer. Drink bleach already fag.

Yeah that's cool and all but you're still gonna drop it before finishing your playthrough because it's shallow and boring.

I've played Witcher 3 and it's the most boring game in existence to me. I'm like 8 hours into and I desperately wanted it to grab ahold of me, but I just couldn't it get into it. It's got some sexy females though I'll give it that (but it looks like those Polish frauds bent the knee and are now making the girls in the Witcher ugly from now on lmao).

I'm quick to call this AI slop, but it has just the right amount of uncanny cringe to believe it's just bad artwork.

But enough about New Vegas

I don't like turn based combat. If Skyrim is not an rpg for you then BG3 isn't a game at all for me.

zoomer

zoomers don't even have the taste or capability to open a zip file, don't overestimate them. Wasting hours modding Bethesda is clearly an older hobby.

Skyrim is an RPG no matter how hard you cope

I feel like this is a shitpost, but I kind of agree (to a point). My relationship with Skyrim went from insane pre-release hype to years of panning the game to finally coming full circle and accepting just how good it is. I don’t love open world games, but that isn’t due to Skyrim or any Bethesda game before it. It’s funny to think that the genre has failed to surpass these buggy messes in the decade+ since release. Skyrim and New Vegas can be your entry and exit to the genre, and that would be fine.

I don't like turn based combat

sound logic

If Skyrim is not an rpg for you then BG3 isn't a game at all for me.

retard logic, I take it back

Yesterday I reinstalled Skyrim after having finished Morrowind for the first time just to quickly compare the two Solstheims and in a couple of hours of gameplay I finally realized why boomers were bitching about it so much all these years. The cut RPG mechanics, the linear dungeons, the reliance on quest markers to show you the way, the restrictive dialogue system, the dumbed down political factions... Crazy how you start seeing the game in a different light once you find out about all these things that are missing.

Hail Talos, you filthy Thalmor Elf.

I think what I'll do is, I'll do the companions, the dawnguard, Solstheim, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and then I will round it off with the MQ. Will I actually finish it all? No fucking clue lol, but I'll try to enjoy it as long as it lasts.

action rpg lite is surely in the genre objectively, but it's also lame inferior bullshit

There is no gameplay in turn based combat. Sorry. You're just watching a movie with extra steps.

inb4 cope about how you need a really high IQ to play turn based games actually

lmao then why do so many women play BG3?

Disagree. I could enjoy them when I was a kid and had zero standards, but now that I'm older and I've played much better games, they're really just bad. Morrowind is still okay but it's not THAT good and is barely an RPG.

What are these better games?

Skyrim's Solstheim is so much better than Morrwind's it isn't even up for debate

Your logic just got even more juvenile. It's called *strategy*, something Skyrim doesn't even remotely require. I challenge you not to look even dumber with your next response.

Skyrim requires an infinite amount more strategy than any turn based game because ya know.... it's actually a game and not a "select option to win" """"game""""

Dark Souls
Dragon's Dogma
Fallout
The Witcher
Deus Ex
Baldur's Gate
VTMB
Dragon Age Origins
Gothic
KotOR
Mass Effect
System Shock

Games with large scopes are inherently going to be buggy. If you are a baby about a couple glitches here and there then play a 6 hour hallway simulator like TLOU or something. Skyrim is built to be an infinity game, it's gonna miss some polish here and there.

The TES series is for low-IQ, low-skilled players, which is fine because even they deserve entertainment, but make no mistake about it -- the combat is more childishly primitive and simplistic than Minecraft combat. At least Morrowind did magic well. That game allows you to invent and craft custom spells and enchants, and it even produces appropriately matching visual spell effects. But Morrowind combat is dreadfully boring. Oblivion and Skyrim combat is equally simplistic and boring, and magic is absolutely underwhelming and ineffectual to the degree that it is just useless. And Bethesda has never produced good graphics. Their graphics are always a generation behind. No one is ever impressed by graphics in Bethesda games, except for people moving up from a PS2 to a pc, perhaps.

Listen, I like Skyrim, it's fun, but you're not fooling anyone with your blatant verifiable lies. BG3 combat requires strategy, it is engaging and fun like a table top. Skyrim's is the same hack and slash bullshit over, and over, and over, and over... with some magic thrown in. The magic is garbage without Enhanced Arcana, and you need Ordinator before the game even has any enjoyable build crafting. It is an objective fact that Skyrim's is a simpler and shallower game, it's fine if that's what you prefer but accept what it is.

PS you failed the challenge

Dark Souls

Played it to death. I tried going back to it recently and I just can't. Skyrim has outlasted DkS1 in terms of replayability to me.

Dragon's Dogma

Played it, beat it, moved on. I like this game a lot but I do not get the cult surrounding it. I mean, it's a good game and I enjoyed it (and yes I played BBI) but I'm not a weirdo DD cultist.

Fallout

Which Fallouts? They pretty much fall under the blanket of the TES games.

The Witcher

Never liked it. Found it boring.

Deus Ex

I like the original and that's it.

Baldur's Gate

turn based combat is a no go for me

VTMB

Never played it but I know all about it. Looks cool as fuck.

Dragon Age Origins

Gothic

I never played these for whatever reason

KotOR

loved it

Mass Effect

loved it. I'm sad we never got a real sequel to ME1.

System Shock

never played it

Shit Souls

Opinion discarded

turn based isn't real combat, sorry guys. You can enjoy it, but it's not a real game.

That I agree with. Bloodmoon sucked.

Baldur's Gate

turn based combat is a no go for me

KotOR

loved it

??? dumbfuck, I guess cuck yourself out of one of the greatest rpgs ever for no good reason

idk

I play other RPGs and they just don't even come close.

Skyrim isnt an RPG you actual retard.

I should have made a note about it, yeah. KOTOR is so good that I didn't mind that it was turn based. Plus you get to move around and position yourself, which I kind of find agreeable as far as turn based goes.

Elder Scrolls games have extremely low replayability, actually. The game mechanics are barebones and repetitive, and the quest design is totally linear and braindead. There just isn't enough going on to ever hold up replays. You have to spend a shit ton of time away from the game before going back to it because it's essentially the same experience every time.
All of those games I mentioned have vastly better gameplay, more in depth systems, better settings and world design, better characters and writing, better music and sound design, more branching paths and gameplay options. Literally everything about them BTFO's Elder Scrolls series, which are mostly one-note shallow experiences.

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 are real time with pause exactly like KOTOR 1 and 2. Actual no-games retard over here.

cock?

Next time, just don't even bother making an rpg thread. The most casual shithead imaginable.

Oblivion and Skyrim honestly less so to me than Morrowind. Level scaling is genuinely one of the worst mechanics in gaming history and it ruins what would otherwise be good games.

80IQ skyrimjob baby pretending to have played Morrowind/Oblivion all thread long

Morrowind and Oblivion have the worst leveling system ever created.

KOTOR

turn based

Holy fuck. You're not beating the allegations of Skyrimfags never playing other RPGs.

NTA, but Kotor is technically turn based.

I play other RPGs and they just don't even come close.

Because basically nobody else in the industry is replicating "the Skyrim formula" the same way they're all replicating "the Souls formula" and the main reason for that is unironically the creation engine despite how much people like to shit on it for being "outdated" (despite it being updated for every TES and Fallout release). It's basically impossible to replicate the TES formula without the creation engine.

See

American developers are just better.

I bet clutter objects don't even have physics

No, rounds happen simultaneously and pass in real time. Turn based would mean each character gets a specific, dedicated turn until moving on to the next character.

Medieval game without goblins and orcs and dragons and magic

That's the entire appeal of KCD, and an indicator of whiteness

It works fine in Morrowind.

>KOTOR

>turn based

Holy fuck. You're not beating the allegations of Skyrimfags never playing other RPGs

KOTOR is literally 3rd edition Dungeons and Dragons under the hood because the SWRPG the game's adapting was the same. It works exactly the same way Neverwinter Nights does where it's doing 3rd edition dungeons and dragons dicerolls and initiative and turn-based mechanics on a six-second turn timer to function as "real-time".

Witcher 3 plays nothing like an Elder Scrolls game

Tolkien is black

If you're going to say Baldur's Gate I will just assume you mean BG3. Say BG1 or 2 if you want to specify.

I'm just asking what are some RPGs that rival or surpass TES games.

I'm not going to get into a battle of semantics. KOTOR is turn based but it also allows you to freely move around and position yourself. Yeah it's like a mix of action and turn-based, which is probably why I find it palatable.

Irrelevant, read

holy fucking pseud

kojima fag

of course

He's catholic, so spiritually yes.

I'm just asking

you've already received your answer, you're just dancing around it like you're afraid of acquiring some actual taste

get urge to replay skyrim after a decade

install and start new game

entire world spins forever

can't even do anything

If you're going to say Baldur's Gate I will just assume you mean BG3.

muh one black character ruins the game

What I said applies to the first game as well

FOMO fags ruin gaming with their shit takes. I hate how you fags think that any game that doesnt cater to your "fear of missing out" OCD mental illness is somehow a design flaw.

What are you even talking about?

Oblivion and Skyrim combat is equally simplistic and boring, and magic is absolutely underwhelming and ineffectual to the degree that it is just useless.

Magic is pretty much the only way to play Oblivion on higher difficulties. Why did you discredit yourself here?

I could ask you the same thing

Not him but nobody with any sanity plays Oblivion on higher difficulties.

>entire world spins forever

????

True but when you say it then you are being mean and come off as pretentious.

He's playing on a framerate higher than 60 with no SSE Display Tweaks.

I've already addressed some game lists I've been provided, feel free to suggest some more.

It's just a normal convention. When people specifically mean the first Dark Souls game they call it DkS1. That's just what happens when games/movies/media get numerical sequels. If you meant BG1 and 2 you should have specified.

I can't play Skyrim without sexlabs defeat, if the bandits and dragons don't rape me after defeating me it's unplayable.

Its not turn based because one side gets to move all their units at once? what?

youtube.com/watch?v=Cpt9Uv88Pvo

Oblivion on expert is completely doable if you've built a battlemage character. If you are just a pure warrior then yeah, stay away from high difficulties. But my point is that magic is very strong in Oblivion.

Morrowind

Maybe

Oblivion

Yes

Skyrim

No.

Oblivion on expert

Remastered

You're not playing Oblivion

It's the world building and the sheer sense of freedom these games give. TES is one of the greatest fictional universes to originate from video game media.
TES games are also unlike most other RPGs. There are very few RPGs that give you complete freedom to go anywhere on the map and do whatever content you want in any order or ignore the main story. Even among Open World games.

Also gameplay wise, these games suck, but with mods they become mechanicaly great RPGs and have servicable combat.

The only thing truly weak in all of them regardless of mods is presentation and character writing.

turn based games are a no go for me

except when said game is le heckin star wars with the trademark bioware streamlined experience

Also

hates turn based combat

praises Skyrim "combat"

I know this is very cliché, but turn based really is the great filter for retards that cannot grasp abstractions in the largely abstraction based entertainment system that is a videogame.
To put an example of how retarded you are, I've seen you praise Skyrim's combat yet haven't mentioned the previous entries despite all 3 of the Todd games having the same positioning based/stat comparison combat with insect tier enemy AI. This is because you equate combat feedback and "feel" with genuine combat complexity.

I've played both and the Remaster is currently the better version of the two.

Didn't ask.

KOTOR is not purely turned based. You can move around and position yourself which is one of the turn offs I have with regular turn-based games. You never truly lose control of your character in KOTOR. There's even a sperg here debating me that KOTOR isn't turn based at all.... and he's kind of right, KOTOR goes in its own category if we are to be honest.

Don't care. Seethe, brown man.

What are your specs?

just exploring all the rooms and talking to all the characters

But... the characters have nothing to say except 1 or 2 lines.

I know this is very cliché, but turn based really is the great filter for retards that cannot grasp abstractions in the largely abstraction based entertainment system that is a videogame.

Women can play turn based games. Like normie retarded women. Turn based is not some esoteric high tier skill lmao. It's literally nothing. Just pick the ability like some sort of "choose your own adventure" style attack and boom.

Skyrim can look good after a few thousand mods...

What are yours, brown man?

You are playing Skyrim in VR with the FUS mod right?

There's a handful you can have full conversations with and ask about the history of the place and etc.

literal third world paid shill calling other people brown

NTA. I was just curious because I dropped the remaster because it ran like shit on my old shitbox.

NTA. I was just curious. I had to drop the game because my old shitbox can't handle UE5

If you like a game that means you are a paid shill

lmao what a sad and pathetic existence you seem to have.

NTA. but I'm black

I started skyrim against recently and figured I would finally do the Berenziah gem quest, but I found out you need to join like 3 different factions to do it, so I dropped it, am I autistic?

I've played Skyrim on and off since 2011 and I have never done that quest

Women can play turn based games

women can also play racing games yet that doesn't stop me from booting up Gran Turismo 4

The idea though that turn based games require some high level esoteric knowledge to play though lol. Like, bro.... if you aren't a 33rd degree mason and don't have an illuminati vrill parasite infused with your brain giving you deeper insights into the fabric of this reality DO NOT EVEN BEGIN TO TRY A TURN BASED GAME hahahahahahahahahaha

meanwhile there's retarded non-gamer sluts on youtube playing turn based games. It's just funny to hear the cope. I mean it's one thing if you enjoy it, but the cope that it's some sort of high tier play just lmao

Amazing how after all these years nobody has yet a good replacer for these shitty ass dirt mounds

the actual gameplay design is like 3/10. not 5/10 but below that. The world building and production quality is above average though. The games are being made by walking sim type people who arent interested in actual gameplay, they dont like those sorts of games and dont want to throw those sorts of gamers a bone. Old blizzard from the 90s had it figured out: make your game simple, but with enough depth that actual gamers have something to seek their teeth into. Thats how they built their brand with starcraft , warcraft, and diablo 2. Todd seems to be trying to do it by making the game simple then pretending there is more depth to be found and then hoping gamers will forget they were tricked by the time the next game comes.

Its not about having esoteric knowledge, its about being able to accept some abstraction in your video game which filters the fuck out of certain kinds of people you shouldnt be designing RPGs for in the first place.

I repsectfully disagree. My favorite games are non turn based RPGs. If you enjoy turn based combat though, that's fine. If you can still get immersed into them then that is a ok. I just want to actually shoot the gun or swing the sword directly.

KCD has no no magic nor fantasy so no, Skyrim moggs KCD

This, I don't get it. Plenty of yime for clones.

Based remaster chad

I think I'm pretty damn white (as white as a Norwegian can be) but the peasantry world of medieval times looks boring as fuck. That's why the fantasy pertaining to that era is so kino. Goblins, orcs, magic, fire breathing dragons. It's the most boring time of our ancestry that spawned the most fun legends and tales.

The idea though that turn based games require some high level esoteric knowledge to play though lol.

Nah, it's not "knowledge" you need. I'm talking straight up genetic differences. I'll explain:
You and I are fundamentally different. You can't stomach turn based games because I assume you seek to be in control of your character all the time (despite every single game limiting your range of actions to some extent, but whatever, I'm arguing with a subhuman). There isn't some kind of idea you can learn in a book that will make you understand this type of stuff, that is to say "knowledge". Either you understand that videogames are inherently limiting and thus accept concessions to the game in order to engage with the mechanics it offers, or you stick to movies and moviegame tier vidya(skyrim). BUT- this thought process I just described is not something people openly say or think about, even children incapable of these thought processes understand this- it's a tacit covenant between the game and the player, as it has always been. This extends to real life sports as well by the way, not just digital media.

There is enough abstraction in me clicking the button of a mouse and having a character on screen pull the trigger of a gun in a digital illusionary environment. I personally don't need more degrees of separation from me and the character I see on the screen. If you're fine with it, that's cool, but turn based games don't give me enough agency in the gameplay.

Also you're a furfag, so yeah, genetically speaking, I think you're pretty fucked. gg mate.

Actually Mass Effect 1 is a real time w/ pause squad based tactical third person shooter combined with a turn based binary morality & investigation dialogue system and an armored personnel carrier combat simulator.

I really hope bethsoft panders to your crowd (more than they already do) for their next TES entry.

Awww fuck you got me. I cannot argue there. You win.

And I hope the industry doesn't make too many of these baby games (turn based combat). 1 every 2 years is enough for you fags.

Depends I guess. For example, I love Mass Effect 1 (one of the games you mentioned), but I tend to play through it once every 5 years or so. It's a very linear experience unless you want to do separate paragon/renegade playthroughs.

I wish the side quests in ME1 were better and the explorable planets were a little more varied, it would have seriously been the perfect game. I'm sad we never got a real ME2. If you just improved the weak areas of ME1, it becomes the GOAT.

sometimes a guy just needs a few rats killed breh

Every game has flaws. The more important thing is about what the game does well. What does Skyrim do well besides having beautiful music and pretty skyboxes? And don't say "I can decide the order in which I engage with the shit content of the game" because the content is still shit.

I honestly feel like anyone who claims to like Morrowind but dislike Skyrim (or vice versa) is being disingenuous.

Content I personally don't like is shit!

Opinion discarded

Why? Yes they are ultimately similar with their aims and goals but there's a large degree of difference in gameplay and design.

I guess what my point was about Mass Effect 1 is... how replayable is it really if only the main quest is great and most everything else outside of it is useless? Mass Effect 1... COULD be the greatest game of all time had it had some strong side activities you could fuck around with.

Like in Skyrim, I have a couple characters that have never done a single quest after Helgen. I have a level 40 Argonian that I just explore the world with, clear out some caves, sell shit, build up the stats/skills/perks. It's like I can just fuck around and explore and take in the scenery and not really care about the main quest. Skyrim can be fun on that level. With Mass Effect 1, I usually finish the MQ and then I'm done.

Well I'm not gonna go back and forth all day but ME1 is more replayable exactly due to the thing you described, it has a great campaign. There's nothing in Skyrim that even comes close to that. So if I ask myself: do I wanna "fuck around" doing fuck-all in Skyrim or replay ME1, the answer is clear.

And I hope the industry doesn't make too many of these baby games (turn based combat). 1 every 2 years is enough for you fags.

See the difference? I dont mind more moviegames, even if it's a design priority I don't particularly enjoy, yet you really need to kill the tactical games because you cannot engage with them fundamentally while I can with movies and moviegames. I wouldn't expect long term thinking from rtwp slop players though, "me want more thing I like and less thing I dislike" tier thinking is right up your alley

fair enough

"me want more thing I like and less thing I dislike"

only turn based games can be tactical

You're going a little too far with your pseudo-intellectualism, furfag. Don't pretend you're smarter than someone else and have superior three dimensional thinking when you're just as narrow minded.

Yeah my bad there, I didn't mean to imply the only tactical genre are TB games. He replied with a chadjak though, don't kick a man while he's down

Speaming of the companions: why did Beth Esda make the Silver Hand (a gang of righteous werewolf hunters) into a bunch of bandits that will attack anyone on sight?

Disagree immensely, Morrowind and its derivatives sold on the fact that no other series offered huge open worlds at that scale. Now open world slop is the norm and its being done by games with much better world design and mechanics than TES 3, 4, and 5.

I actually think Daggerfall aged a lot better, its still unmatched at being babby's first dungeon crawler.

This woman clogs toilets

which games?

procedural generation slop, 1996

better than morrowind

no

This is 100% a guess, but Bethesda probably originally intended for us to be able to join the Silver Hand. Either you join the werewolves or the werewolf hunters. But the budget for that idea ran out during development so the silver hand is now just an enemy faction.

I'd have a harder time naming a series that HASN'T gone to open world slop design. Its not a novelty anymore like it was when these games released.

Yeah but c'mon. Name these games that have gone open world and surpassed TES.

Fair enough. It would be better to focus instead on criticizing Skyrim's braindead gameplay, which would be just as bad if it was 1:1 adapted into a turn based system.

Breath of the Wild

Elden Ring

Assassins creed sloppa

Death Stranding

Sonic Frontiers

Fasntasy Life i

Just a few I've played with far better world design and more involved mechanics than TES which haven't been mentioned in the thread. Some of these games are not that good but better world design and gameplay than TES is not a high bar.

I was playing Skyrim just recently and I was clearing out a Draugr crypt. The final Dragon Priest boss was too hard for me (literally zapped my character to death in 2 lightning bolts) rather than lower the difficulty I remembered there was a floor activated trap just before coming to the boss room, I led him there and activated the trap and a giant log came crossing down and obliterated him. That's real gameplay, you niggers don't even know.

inb4 th-that's nothing! That's nothing!

lol

I would disagree on AssCreed. Origins was so bad and just blatantly ripping off Witcher 3's open world (which was the worst part of Witcher 3 that no one was praising)

That's real gameplay

i give 80% odds this anon looked up how to get past the golden claw door.

Anon you know that's some basic shit you could do in games from the 90s right?

Breath of the Wild

I don't play baby games

Elden Ring

Yeah I liked it. I have had 0 desire to replay it after I 100% the game though

Assassins creed sloppa

uhhhh.... my friend.... I enjoy some of these titles, but they are not as good as TES lol. Not even close.

Death Stranding

I played it and it filtered me. I cannot say that I was having fun, but I only played it for like 2 hours. Maybe it gets better?

Sonic Frontiers

Fasntasy Life i

I don't play these types of games

shitwind

aged well

th-that's just basic gameplay!

lol. What I described was real raw gameplay. Something you'll never see in your turn-based games.

turn based games dont have traps or ways to cheese bosses

Do you even play video games?

or vice versa

i mean i would take issue with original statement but to not see how skyrim kiddies get filtered by 20 year old graphics and dice roll combat makes you look so out of touch.

It's all scripted.

Talos

Not a god.

not denying the golden claw accusations

thinking its "real gameplay" when a boss is designed to be a stat check but you can abuse dungeon traps to avoid fighting it and effectively skip the combat portion

Skyrim has bad comb-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ-V-GTjgoc&

vanilla btw

Skyrim is a better game than Morrowind, which is just an interactive encyclopedia set in a dung pile

this is what 4000 hours of skyrim looks like

PLEASE let this be an ironic joke

Morrowind is a better game than Skyrim, which is just an interactive audiobook set in a cum pile

not denying the golden claw accusations

This was just you making an admission on your part. There's nothing here for me to deny.

thinking its "real gameplay" when a boss is designed to be a stat check but you can abuse dungeon traps to avoid fighting it and effectively skip the combat portion

That is real gameplay right there.

Cool DonaldxMorrowind, meme. Got any more?

The worst part about Skyrim is mainly just all the vanilla quests. You can fix just about everything else with mods and make it a better mechanical RPG than Morrowind ever was. But the quests will always be brainless and be reliant on quest markers.

I don't play baby games

But you play TES?

This was just you making an admission on your part. There's nothing here for me to deny.

skyrim babs reading comprehension and logic ability is vegetable tier. wow i am shocked.

Memes aside, Zelda is a literal children's game. Sorry.

You brought up the claw. I'm guessing this was a moment that stumped you lol and you've never been able to let it go

Anon, you're not grown-up. You're in your teens or early twenties going through your edgy grimdark phase.

skyrim stat system is literally worse than morrowind.
the magic is worse than morrowind.
the story is worse than morrowind.
the world building is worse than morrowind.
The level scaling is worse than morrowind

go on and say "nuh uh" to what point you find to be the most egregious and I will explain how skyrim did a shit job with it worse than morrowind.

I agree, so is TES.

No it didnt stump me at all because im not a retard, it was babies first RPG puzzle and the game spoon feeds you the answer by saying exactly how to solve it by talking to that guy or reading the journal. you did get stumped, didnt you?

Wow, it's almost like you completely ignored the part where I said:

with mods

Fucking retarded vanilla nigger.

It would be better to focus instead on criticizing Skyrim's braindead gameplay, which would be just as bad if it was 1:1 adapted into a turn based system

For me, its the lost and missed potential.
The game presents a simplistic melee combat , but then gimps you for trying to mess with magic (unless its restoration). Then there is the ultimate fuck you to the game's systems, stealth archery. It wouldn't be so bad if the AI could, idk, take cover while under fire or organize themselves into search and destroy groups. Really the more I think about it, the more I realise bethsoft's AI and encounter design is really what's holding them back... A ton of games have positioning based melee combat systems like skyrim has, yet they dont fumble the ball in terms of gameplay. In fact I don't think the simplicity of Skyrim's melee combat is that much of a bad thing. It frees up space for other facets of the combat to be more exciting and distinct. Have a dungeon in which melee characters would be prone to getting surrounded. A close quarters dungeon that would make archer characters struggle. A type of enemy that reflects spells. But nah, best keep it simple for retards to go "wow nice aurora" while they are standing naked on a glacier.
I miss having spellcrafting, in Oblivion you could chain spells and stack damage multipliers or execute low health enemies with creative spellcrafting. A new dimension to battlage/mage characters. Everyone remember's that Morrowind gauntlet that summoned 3 atronachs, where'd that cool shit go? Why must all dungeons be glorified corridors meant to force 1v1 hall encounters?

Nah I'm sure it's real. It doesn't have soulless fucked up eyes or any small details an ai would screw up

I don't think TES is made for children in quite the same way that Zelda is *literally* made for children.

I think that puzzle stumped you and now it's forever in your head lmao. It was this big formative moment for you which you failed. Anyone that passed it, did so and didn't really think twice about it.

wispmother

Why did they make her so sexy? Will nu-bethesda make hot enemies like that in ES6?

Will nu-bethesda make hot enemies like that in ES6?

I hope. Vanilla Skyrim even had sexy armors. I hope all that stuff remains.

Skyrim is a better game than Morrowind

Most people agree except a vocal minority of jaded boomers that just can't let go of their nostalgia.

Anyone that passed it, did so and didn't really think twice about it.

The golden claw puzzle has been a meme in the gaming community for years because of the way it stumped people on release and Anon Babble has been making fun of and crying over how the sort of people who had to look up the golden claw are bethesdas target audience now.

And since you randomly brought it up I think it did stump you. This was some sort trauma for you hahahaha.

mods dont fix the horrid level scaling and power creep.

yes they heckin do they can delevel enemies!

yeah cool now you randomly get 1 shot by soemthing 20 levels higher, hurray the stat system is saved!

What about those games is "edgy grimdark"? You're just saying shit.

6 posts in and still hasnt bothered to deny it. I admire your honestly to not jump right to a lie though.
I really do think that people who failed the golden claw riddle should not be allowed to have opinions on anything though

Requiem

I don't think TES is made for children in quite the same way that Zelda is *literally* made for children.

Todd knows exactly who his audience is

The only choices that you can make with any impact is during the civil war in which you can remain neutral, or side with whatever retards you like
Even then there is no continuity ala mass effect so you choice is moot when bethesda will just write something else into canon
Everything else you basically walk in a line doing whatever the fuck it is your told to do
Its an action game at best

Dont argue with this retard. He unironically replied earlier with "me want more thing I like and less thing I dislike". I shudder to think what sort of fat, dopamine addicted pajeets bethesdrones have degenerated into.

If you took the framework of Kingdom Come and made a fantasy RPG with it, I'd be all for that. As is I'm only so interested in historical autism.

I did not have to look up the dragon claw puzzle. But I think that you did.

And I think you're sick in the head lol.

Enemy behavior/design is a huge problem in Skyrim. They don't know how to deal with the player at all. In Morrowind and Oblivion at least the enemies just straight rushed you and attacked as fast as they could (still cheesable if your speed was higher or they get stuck on terrain) but in Skyrim the enemies move so slowly and take 10 years to make up their mind about anything. Morrowind and Oblivion enemies also had more counters like you said with magic resistance, paralyze spells, etc. Another critical flaw in the melee combat of Skyrim is that enemies get stunlocked by their own successful blocks of your attacks which is just hilarious.

He unironically replied earlier with "me want more thing I like and less thing I dislike".

Awwwww baby got upset by a little meme. Hahahahahahahaha.

The ironic thing to me is that Elder scrolls has way more potential for choices to affect gameplay than KCD

race picks

faction picks

spells/skills picks

but bethesda decided to do away with that stuff so anyone can experience anything and doesnt need to feel bad, and so they can tell the story they want or whatever. Then KCD comes and has more choices despite almost every build/playthrough just being " ur a white male, take that sword and stick them with the pointy end"

Would it really be in service to the game if you could only pick one faction per playthrough and be locked out of certain rewards/quests? I am 50/50 on it. Maybe you can tell more interesting stories if the factions fought so you could only choose 1, but I also get the notion of "you can join the mage's guild, thieves guild, the companions, and the dark brotherhood, they all have their own independent storylines and don't preclude you from joining the others". I really am 50/50 on it, I can see the benefits and drawbacks of both.

They don't know how to deal with the player at all.

The problem is if you make enemies too smart you can effectively make stealth non viable in many situations and that would clash tremendously with skyrims skill, perk, and level scaling system. Imagine leveling up stealth a bunch and gaining like 5 levels from it then having to fight enemies 5 levels higher but you are in a cave where its impossible to make use of your stealth skills or perks because they enemies run down the hallway the first arrow came from and see you every time.

Another critical flaw in the melee combat of Skyrim is that enemies get stunlocked by their own successful blocks of your attacks which is just hilarious.

Not just that lol. You can bash a blocking shield and still do considerable damage.
Oh and let me be clear, I don't think Oblivion's or Morrowind's are good combat systems, but they allowed for quite more reactivity and rewarded macrogame knowledge far more. I remember having to deal with a mage in Morrowind that was standing on top of an unreachable ledge and he was just bombarding me with spells. Had to drink a jump potion to reach him and finish him off. I also remember playing tes3mp with a friend and we were both playing lategame mage characters. We had a duel and it was the most batshit insane thing ever, we were flying around trying to predict eachother's trajectories in the air. It was surreal dude. Now, I know that's not a fair comparison since its modded Morrowind vs a player, but why not make totally insane enemy design like that instead of yet another "bossfight", that boils down to not being bursted down before you stunlock them with a sword and board? Not even gonna mention vanilla magic in Skyrim lmao that shit was clearly not playtested.

Pretty much all the guilds have these useless bloat missions that take up over half the time you spend on them. Go do pointless thing for no purpose 'because we need to know to trust you' repeated x5. The companions sent me all the way to a random house in Markrath to fight a sabre cat attacking a kid. Killing the animal just completes the quest. It doesn't drop anything, you don't get thanked by the kid he just turns and yelled at me for trespassing because it was at night so now I have a bounty for saving the kids life.

Would it really be in service to the game if you could only pick one faction per playthrough and be locked out of certain rewards/quests?

it wouldnt even have to be that extreme. Players like to make choices and they like to feel like their choices are special and make a difference. Maybe a faction member that is the same race a you gives you a tip or a potion he doesnt give other races when you start a quest. Maybe there is a mini faction that only accepts a certain race, maybe a trainer will only train argonians at first glance, but will train anyone if they get him to max disposition.

Imagine if in skyrim for the lighthouse quest the argonian doent betray you if you are argonian and you have to fight some ship captain instead or whatever.

Enemies should not be able to intuit the player's position unless they are special enemies with high perceptive abilities. But they shouldn't stand around waiting to get killed either while trying to path toward the player. Low level human enemies should panic and hide, waiting for you to get them. High level enemies would be more confident and try to find your ass.Less intelligent enemies are allowed to be confused and/or enter into a frenzied state. Shit that adds depth, idk. But obviously a lotta stuff would have to get tuned around accordingly. One must understand the game holistically and not make assumptions that because you "fix" one thing, other mechanics would not interfere with your "fixes". But it's a start, and if nothing else, an entertaining thought exercise.

Don't the games do this though? Aren't there little bonus interactions based on what race or gender you're playing? Nothing hugely game changing of course, but I could have sworn I've seen some youtube vids pop up saying "look what happens during this quest if you're playing as xxxxx"

IIRC, Countess Alessia Caro in Oblivion treats Argonians and Khajits like filthy scum and she'll have a little unique dialogue if you're playing as one.

And I think you're sick in the head lol.

For acknowledging that companies market violent games to children who think its cool?

I might get around to playing KCD2 eventually, but the idea of a Medieval game without goblins and orcs and dragons and magic is boring as shit to me.

I thought this, but it turns out that all of that stuff is secondary to having interesting characters and a feeling of overcoming a world of adversity, which KCD has in spades. I do think a fantasy game with identical mechanics and roleplay would be extremely good, but I also think a big part of what makes those games so good is that there's a lot of feelings of a greater conflict which impacts individuals on a small scale
The second game features some of the best battle sequences I've seen in an RPG, certainly with much more narrative weight than the average action game's battles, where shit feels really dire, but it's all just stuff that would be a tiny dot on a map of a greater historical conflict, and probably wouldn't even get a wikipedia page. Typically in games, you have the problem of a 'battle' being like 12 dudes a side, but this one actually felt like the scale was accurate to what these battles would have actually been like

Do people unironically play these games vanilla in 2025? Or is it just tech illiterate zoomers who get "overwhelmed" by modding?

yeah theres some unique dialog every once in a while, and vendors maybe have like 15% swings in different directions. But for the most part it really doesnt feel like it matters outside of the racial power.

but you are in a cave where its impossible to make use of your stealth skills or perks because they enemies run down the hallway the first arrow came from and see you every time

That is fine, not every character should be able to clear content the same way or with the same effectiveness. A consequence of playing a Role Playing Game is not being able to fulfill every role with your character. Not every character should be a master lockpick. Not every character can do magic. Not every character can block effectively.
People rightfully deride Skyrim foregoing these principles, and call it an action game larping as an RPG, which it is

you forgot the worst of their kind,those who play bethesda games on their consoles

It's like saying the Terminator is made for children in the same way Teletubbies is made for children. There is argument to be made here that, yes, a child could see the Terminator and think it's cool and want to watch it, but you'd have to be an autist to say there is no difference between the Terminator and Teletubbies. Zelda is quite literally a child's product. TES might attract some kids who want to play it, but I don't think it's expressly a children's game series.

Modding can definitely be a trap that just sucks your time and distracts you from even playing the game. The "modding the game for hours just to drop it in 30 minutes" meme is just as real as the stealth archer meme.

I'll get KCD2 when it goes on sale.

yeah im pretty sure 9/10 gamers would throw a fucking fit if they got halfway down a dungeon then couldnt complete it because the level scaling outpaced the skills they didnt level and the game wont let the player use the ones he did.

I had never played oblivion before the remaster came out but to me it felt very much like a very old game with a fresh coat of graphics. It was a lot of fun though.

Oh no, they're being genuine. In fact, I maintain my prediction that Skyrimfags won't even like TES VI and will become the next "new bad" crowd. They might even be right, but it'll just be funny to see the tables turn on them.

When terminator was released, the greatest generation and the silent generation literally could not the fathom the idea of a piece of sci fi media that wasn't for kids, much in the same way boomers and gen X today see any video game and assume it must be made for kids. Terminator was absolutely made for kids and you'd have to be a culture blind retard to think otherwise. Sure now, its primarily targeted at manchildren who grew up with it, but thats because they fucked up at expanding their audience.

Amusingly TES went in the opposite direction, being made for extremely autistic adults, and then expanding towards marketing towards kids and dumbing down the adult themes in their games as they expanded their audience. Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind were all targeted at adults. Oblivion and Skyrim dumbed down the adult themes and mechanics from those games as part of their initiative to capture a younger audience.

starfield actually had more, and better, rpg mechanics than oblivion, fallout 3, skyrim, or fallout 4, but it being baked in a shitty setting meant no one appreciated them

And this is why the industry is the way it is. It'll never happen with big budget games, but indies fill the itch more than enough for me. Also, I don't agree that dungeons should not be completable for certain characters, just more demanding (you'll have to chug more potions, prepare beforehand, maybe reload a save idk)

Skyrim enjoyer here. If I don't like the next TES game I will shit on it.

Is what it is.

It's easy to make a character in Fallout New Vegas that can do everything. Does this mean New Vegas isn't an RPG?

the solution is actually pretty simple. just dont have a stat system with exponential power creep and dont have level scaling.

I'm not saying that the Terminator ISN'T targeted at children. They made fucking toys and shit. They knew children would be part of the audience. I'm saying there is an inherent difference between something like the Terminator and something like the Teletubbies. They're both made for kids, but not in the same way, and certainly more adults can enjoy what the Terminator has to offer than what the Teletubbies can offer them.

I don't even think TES games were dumbed down specifically for kids. That is a bigger sociological and demographical conversation that I don't want to get into. Taking a break from Anon Babble lol.

Then there hasn't been a proper RPG in the past 20 years. Very very few games don't let you or your party members become the master of all by the end.

it is fine if level scaling outpaces your combat skills and locks you out of combat

Premise rejected.

I mean, you will eventually be able to do so given you hit the level cap, but I don't think while you are progressing the game you can just switch armor/weapon types or pass every skill check and still be effective in the way that you can with skyrim. Also wasn't New Vegas built on an already dumbed down rpg and developed in like a year?

Disingenuous post. Taking certain quest paths will lock you out of others, and you can only have fully maxed skills at the endgame. Throughout the actual course of the game itself you have to pick and choose where you excel at. You have a limited pool of perks. Again, your character at endgame will be able to do basically any skill check but that's completely earned and not "easy" because you had to make choices and character build sacrifices during 90% of the game.

It takes a lot longer to level up in Skyrim than it does in New Vegas, due to the system of needing to train a skill to improve it

That just isn't true. And with glitches aside, you and powerlevel much faster in Skyrim.

NTA, but Skyrim gives you a lot more opportunities to level up than NV does. Maybe it's slower in Skyrim, but you can easily get to level 50 just fucking around before you ever step foot into Whiterun. NV isn't nearly as polluted with random detours you can take.

They're both made for kids, but not in the same way, and certainly more adults can enjoy what the Terminator has to offer than what the Teletubbies can offer them.

This is where you're wrong my friend
Only low IQ browns and trailer trash whites who haven't been educated in classical literature can see the superficial adult themes in something like terminator and classify it as something "different" from other children's media. Real adults will see the lack of depth and appeal to maturity and realize its all the same mind numbing shit.

If it's not true, how come I've always reached level cap before even beating the DLC in new vegas, while in skyrim I've usually only maxed out 4 skills at most by the time I reach dragonborn?

Uhhhh if you spam the skill then you'll get way better at it though

Yeah people don't play the game like that unless they're metamancing fags

Morrowind is on sale, should I finally bother playing it? Or move straight on to daggerfall

Daggerfall is better.

You're just apparently severely autistic in a mentally debilitating way.

Where did I defend level scaling? Level scaling is a tool for devs to ease their design burden, and should be used sparingly. Unlike in Skyrim.
Again, a lot of work is required to put these ideas into practice and these are more ideals to strive for than practical design advice. Also, I think it's fine if lategame characters are able to spec into other character skills, since the game should be theoretically ending by that point and progression is abandoned in favor of climax.
I think Skyrim could benefit from a more robust companion system. Have a Mjoll tank and spank while you pickpocket the enemies weapons. If a character wants to be a jack of all trades, he should never a master of any while the game is progressing.

Not at all sir, I went to an all white private school where I was led to appreciate the Western Canon. I recommend you start with the greeks, and maybe soon you'll see the err of your ways.

Greeks aren't white

I went to medical school. All that stuff was cool to me in my teenage years.

You're just apparently severely autistic in a mentally debilitating way.

implying autism isn't inherently mentally debilitating

just kidding I know what u mean but still lol

What even is your argument here? That Skyrim is a better RPG because you can invest in less skills? Well let's think about that for a second. What's the difference in gameplay between 0 lockpicking and 100 lockpicking? Oh right, nothing. Now what's the difference between 0 and 100 lockpicking in New Vegas. I think you see the point but let's go further. What's the gameplay difference between 0 and 100 Restoration in Skyrim? Can you roleplay as a healer during quests? Can you use your medical skills to save characters who would otherwise die? I don't think so. Now let's think about the difference between 0 and 100 Medicine in NV. I think you see the point yet again.

b-but you can be a master healer AND a master lockpicker and New Vegas!

Yes, but you actually have to invest those points, meaning you aren't putting them in something else. You're losing out on something in order to be skilled at those things. Skyrim's gameplay doesn't have any skill checks or requirements, hence the criticism that you can just pick up and do anything easily no matter the character. If you were investing into Guns and Speech primarily in New Vegas and you hit a spot where you need Medicine for a skill check, you can't get it. You made a sacrifice for your character build. The problem isn't Skyrim's leveling system, it's that the skills are all basically ineffectual beyond their most basic mechanic. You don't need to have devoted ANYTHING to magic skills to enter the College of Winterhold.

Ancient greeks were. Modern greeks are turkish rape babies but they still have a bit of hellenic DNA.

Med School

Likes TES

Checks out at least.

play both
daggerfall unity and for morrowind openMW
you are welcome

Never managed to finish Skyrim, it's just so fucking boring. I do like Fallout 4 tho.

I also want to add I literally own most of those books you mentioned haha. I wasn't kidding when I said I loved this shit as a teenager.

Jewish shill desperate to advertise his flopped gay trash game

t.

My pc broke so I decided to play skyrim on my ps4 cause I learned you can use some mods, I used ordinator and apolocalpsy and after a few hours I learned that the game would randomly crash when I cast fury, I don't know why as its a basegame mod, now I'm annoyed I wasted those few hours getting my character started instead of watching anime or gooning

Whenever I think the skyrim babies cant get more retarded I go to a vee thread and see posts like these

Skyrim's main quest is terrible, even Skyrim fans agree on that.
Most of the other quests are terrible too but Skyrim fans are impressed just because there's a lot of them

Replaying Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim and man.... I think these games have aged so well. I think I appreciate them more today than I did back then. No other games immerse me into the worlds like theirs do.

Replaying Skyrim now with a fresh character and I just joined the companions.... God damn... the music and just exploring all the rooms and talking to all the characters. WTF man. I play other RPGs and they just don't even come close.

Am I that obvious?

why would you skip morrowind and go straight to daggerfall?

He probably got memed into thinking Daggerfall is better because it's even older and even le deeper

if elder scrolls 6 doesn't have target locking i'm going to piss in your mailbox

Whenever Secunda starts playing, you know you're in for a good time. The same way Big Iron comes on the radio in Fallout

TESVI will have optional target locking

Le happy big iron reddit gay cowboy

not "Im so blue" in a post apoc game riddled with mummified corpses on every building

Forced Reddit meme

fun fact: souls combat is almost always better without target locking. I only target lock on enemies that strafe around a lot or if im doing stabby weapons.

conan exiles combat is also best without target locking

Skyrim was mediocre at best, even with hundreds of mods

Where did I defend level scaling?

you said "thats fine" you cant say "thats fine" to a post then pick and choose which part of the post is just "fine".

Yup. Been telling this to noobs since day 1. Target locking is trap and your camera will inevitably get fucked. Just get comfortable with the motion of your weapon.

Zoom zoom

Yup.

Zoomers are the ones who grew up with and defend Skyrim.

everyone who disagrees with me is a zoomer

Wrong Bucko. Have you considered maybe that you just have shit taste

Zoomer cope

youtube.com/watch?v=O0ikW7pVa_I

World building and quest presentation was good. atmosphere was top notch. The actual gameplay mechanics and stat system were not designed for a gamers though, i didnt feel like it was very rewarding to play the gameplay portion. I didnt like getting 1 hit by higher level enemies, or doing the pause gameplay of opening inventory to chug potions until im full HP then unpausing. game either felt unfair for 1 shotting me or too easy for letting me pause and heal. overall just unsatisfying from a gameplay perspective.
In other elder scrolls i also thought the melee was mediocre, so i used magic. In skyrim i did the same and summoned and other stuff which made the game enjoyable, but the lack in offensive variety was a little lame. It felt like the biggest choice for offensive magic early game was about which element to use but the spells still mostly felt the same until you start getting later in the game. They could have had spellmaking but made it more balanced, spellmaking doesnt have to mean 100% weakness for 2 second spells break the game. They could even add more features to it, like letting you pick between different types of animations, a beam, an exploding ball, a wave, a wide torrent, idk.

Is that a nuanced opinion? I must be on the wrong site. Yes, Skyrim did some things well and had a pretty good foundation. My biggest gripes with it were how empty the world was, how boring and repetitive dungeons were, and how janky the quests and NPCs were. No amount of user created content could solve all these issues, even the most interesting quest now are still lame and the world remains empty.

NTA but what are some games you like?

Almost all of them save for maybe Mass Effect (and even that has some Lovecraftian stuff) lean into darker fantasy that dabbles in moral ambiguity and corruption. It's fine to appreciate these experiences from time to time, but when damn near all your favorite games have the exact same themes it paints a picture of who you are as a person.

Anon Babble be like:

I FRICKING HATE TODD HOWARD, HE IS SO BAD!!!

Anon Babble 10 seconds later:

HOLY SHART I CAN'T FUCKING WAIT TO PLAY SKYRIM AGAIN

So hypocritical isn't it? Because as we all know Anon Babble is just one person, who isn't allowed to have conflicting opinions. You fucking retard

Don't mind him. He is just an npc looking for consensus. Differing opinions mess with their "brains".

You're just being silly. There are dark elements in most fantasy, even clear-cut good and evil stories like LOTR. Most of those games have clearly identifiable good guys and bad guys.

moral ambiguity and corruption

Choose one. Corruption implies that there is morality in the setting and that it can be well, corrupted. Also reminder that just because there are multiple evil factions in a setting doesn't mean it's "morally ambiguous", it just means that there are multiple evil parties involved. Usually the good guys in those settings have to operate a little under the radar to achieve their goals, but they're still there. If those games had ZERO good people at all, then you would have a point.
Also TES has the elements you mentioned so you're spouting nonsense lol.

try to replay Skyrim every 3 years or so

leveling system makes me drop the game and I go back to Oblivion or Morrowind.

Its just so fucking shit

Personally, I always thought the fact that TES characters and plot are underwritten as kind of a hidden strength. It gives the setting and lore more space to shine and puts more agency on the player to investigate for themselves. It's also truer to life in a way. Life doesn't unfold as the epic drama you read about in novels or see on TV. Life just is. Things happen without rhyme or reason. Moments can be awkwardly rushed or they can linger for an uncomfortably long time.

These are the games that most remind me of the real life backpacking or roadtrip adventures I've been on where we just head out to explore without a set plan in mind. Random shit happens along the way. We run into random strangers along the way. We see or hear about something cool and make our way to check it out. That's life. A series of strange and wonderful vignettes that form an abstract mosaic.

the writing being bad is a hidden strength

Alright bro

LOTR is very idealist and direct. Most of your games have a pretty cynical view of human nature and play into this with stories that revolve around conspiracies that are revealed to the player during a pivotal moment when they peel back the curtain. Putting so many thematically similar narratives among your favorites gives off a certain "enlightened by my own intelligence" vibe.

Most of your games have a pretty cynical view of human nature and play into this with stories that revolve around conspiracies that are revealed to the player during a pivotal moment when they peel back the curtain. Putting so many thematically similar narratives among your favorites gives off a certain "enlightened by my own intelligence" vibe.

Not that Anon but can you recommend RPGs that DON'T do this? Most are written by hacks who think cynicism is good writing.

Interesting perspective

Mass Effect is actually pretty genuine relative to the rest of that list.

What are you talking about? I just said most of those games have clearly identifiable good and evil forces. Literally at no point do any of them go "actually the bad guys are good teehee". You're just ignoring everything I'm saying and continuing the argue with a strawman.

"enlightened by my own intelligence" vibe

Holy projection. All you've been doing is grandstanding and trying to disparage my taste because it's "morally dubious" or whatever the fuck. Get real.
He has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. You can be a good guy and fight evil forces in those games.