Is he right...

Is he right? Does the success of BG3 and Claire Obscure Expedition 33 prove that Square Enix is wrong about nobody wanting turn based games anymore and making Final Fantasy into action games?

It's been disproved for a while.
Persona 5 even proved it and that game is old now.

Who gives a fuck about square
theyve been making flops for years now, its time to move on

Only BG3 is the success that SE wants. E33 did 500k and Metaflop doing 1M doesn't matter to them.

Says turn-based combat is dead

Pokemon continues to break records

Persona still mainstream after all this time

Yakuza, an action game, went turn-based to good reception

Sqeenix themselves still making bank off Dragon Quest

I think they just really hate Final Fantasy and its Western fanbase honestly

Claire-Obscure Redfield

clair obscur is an action rpg
it doesn't disprove the yoship statement

TB fags believe the pokefags aren't buying pokemon game for anything other than the monster collector aspect

TB fags believe the purseowners aren't buying it for the slice of life, waifu hunting

TB fags believe the SEGA made so much bank on the RPG yakuza games, they'll continue down that path. Oh wait.....

TB fags believe the SE isn't making bank on anything other a single ip, that only sees a release of a new game once every 5-7 years

Clair Obscur has none of the things that I want from a turn-based RPG.
I can do boring button prompts to dodge and parry all day long, but I don't want that shit. I want to prepare for battles, use my knowledge of the game's systems to execute plans, adapt when things start going wrong, learn from failures and rework my tactics for subsequent attempts.
You literally cannot have any of this in a game that allows you to nullify damage with a simple button press.
I don't feel like a brilliant strategist or that my knowledge of the game is being tested when I play crap with timed hits and timed defense. I just feel like a fucking moron. But then I look around and see that everyone else is perfectly content doing the video game equivalent of shaking rattles and sucking on pacifiers and saying it's some of the best shit they've ever played.

Final Fantasy is not shit because of its combat mechanics. It's just shit since Square Soft died.

The problem with SE is that they are shit devs. I fully expect them to try to go back to turn base after the success of so many turn based game recently, and still fuck it up.

And the worst part is that this isn't just happening to JRPGs. Some of the other genres I adore the most like action games and shmups are suffering from this exact same dumbing down. Shit that actively works against those genres like fake RPG elements and progression systems, shit that has absolutely no place in those genres, is creeping into more and more games year by year because people who aren't actually fans of those games, people who shouldn't be playing them at all, need to be fooled into enjoying them anyway with this mickey mouse bullshit that makes them feel like they're REALLY PLAYING THE GAME™.
I'm so close to giving up on gaming entirely and finding a different hobby, but then I worry that normalshitters will just ruin that shit too.

Atlus surpassed Square Enix as the king of JRPGs 20 years ago.

I mean FF16 sold better, so Square is right?.
BG3 is also a completely different genre to 4 niggers in a line, it's disingenuous to compare them.

Anyone talking about FF/SE is just a shill

Judge the game on its own merits, dumb golems

I mean FF16 sold better

LOL

Yes but FF going action isn't what made the games start to suck

What is Persona

consider that the FF developers are making non-turn based games because they want to make non-turn based games and no amount of turn-based success stories are going to make them change that.

FF16 is at 3-4million, while Expedition 33 is at 500k-1m, that's also just "players" and not direct sales due to it being on goypass.

First Western game I've bought in about a decade. Pretty mediocre, reminds me of why I stopped trying them in the first place. Decent effort from a new studio but I doubt they figure out how to improve. Dialog is quite bad (FR), art is quite bad, systems are too rudimentary and the encounter design is lackluster. Music is good but not great.

Wouldn't P5 have already 'proved' that almost a decade ago? Does looking like another UE5 game suddenly make it more special than an anime cel shaded game with a similar foundation? Then Yakuza switching to turn based should have proved that 4 years ago it's a just a meaningless conversation that'll loop again in a few years.

Persona 5 was released 9 years ago.

Persona 5 is old now

It's not that old... Shit has it really been 9 years??

I really like the game and I think they had a lot of good idea with the gameplay (all the character mechanics, but also having AP instead of mana for example).
The parry/dodge, I think it's good too, but the fact that it completely nullifie damage kinda undermine the aspect rpg like you said. It should've been just a damage reduction.

yeah it's shit and made for people who hate rpg's

It should've been just a damage reduction.

This would unfortunately require the devs to actually understand how to design a good JRPG on a fundamental level, which it is abundantly clear they do not. Nothing in the game is designed to accept normal JRPG play. The pieces are in place to appear this way, but in practice none of it really works that way because the assumption is that you are either engaging fully with the QTEs to deal more damage and negate damage, or you are simply dying.

Totally. I'd play Final Fantasy in a heartbeat if it was turn-based again.

Faggot

Yeah the approach they took is pretty much a way to "cheat" out of actually doing encounter design.

I literally cannot wait for the next mainline FF to be some 2D/PS1 graphic nostalgia trip 4 niggers in a line game, with every single muh tradishionooool ff turnbased gameplay feature these whinging faggots want and then

Sold less than 2 million copies.

Will finally put this nonsense to rest forever.

t. least delusional actiontroon

Bro octopath traveller pulls those numbers and it's literally who pixelshit. A DF6 remake that looked like expedition 33 would do gangbusters

Yes it’s pretty much this, plus op is acting like square isn’t making any turn based games it’s just final fantasy and that hasn’t been turned into based in like 16 to 25 years depending on how you view turn based

FF fans

gaslighting into not wanting turn based

When you have to enjoy turn based to even be a FF fan at all

The fuck are these fucking retards talking about?
Does that retard mean Squeenix?

the fact is the number of people who like traditional jrpg design is a smaller number than the people who like pressing the parry button at the right time so that's what you're going to get. it is what it is.

You didn't need to press anything in Baldur's Gate 3. It was all about strategy

why cant people just accept SE doesnt want final fantasy to be turnbased
They shitout turnbased "classic" games all the time, and guess what besides dragon quest they never sell well.

Now i do think ff16 went way too far into action combat but 7rebirths combat was great

NTA but why do people keep brining up BG3? It fucking NOTHING to do with the discussion. The combat legitimately doesn’t matter for that game and it’s all about the story, character interactions and your decisions.

No one who cares about JRPGs cares about Final Fantasy ever since Squeenix abused their trust with XIII.
JRPG enjoyers (actual ones, not the fake ones described by the OP image) are eating better than ever before. SaGa is coming out in droves like never before with Emerald Beyond, Scarlet Grace, and re-releases of SaGa games we were denied for decades here in the west. Age-old classics once denounced like Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter are finally getting vindicated. Live-A-Live has an official English language release, for fuck's sake. And you don't have to go back far to find awesome shit on the 3DS with outstanding gameplay, like Etrian Odyssey, SMT4, Strange Journey, and this is just the well-known Atlus stuff. There's plenty of deep cuts to be found as well.
Shame on anyone who thinks that JRPGs start and end with Final Fantasy, because that has literally not been true for over a decade. The only people doing this shit right now are also trying to sell you a bridge in the form of E33. JRPGs don't need a fucking savior because they never died.

How does a turn based rpg have nothing to do with the discussion. Think next time before you sperg out

0:41

youtube.com/watch?v=IunbXWab1_Y

The irony is that I disagree with your picks entirely but agree with your point completely. That is how deep the JRPG pool is right now.

The Final Fantasy developers don't want to make turn based games. You people have an abusive mindset towards Japanese game developers. You want to force them to make the games you want. You do this with the Zelda series as well. Kojima does not want to make more Metal Gear games. Just give it up already.

It'll surpass it, just you wait.

I really think it’s shit posters, king time final fu fans know we aren’t going back to the FFX days and just play what we think looks fun.

Its hilarious how Square has tried so hard to reinvent themselves and stray from turn based for the last 20 years with 13, 15, 16 and Remake and it has never worked despite them constantly pushing it. Who asked for that?

No, anon. The 500k figure was sales, not players.

They really just need to drop the hyper-realistic graphics and go down to AA. Have a simpler but much cheaper 3d-anime style, like the Tales series. SE's obsession with hyper-realism is the main reason they're hurting, because the graphics mean their games cost them so much fucking time and money to produce. On top of FF games being all shit now, they just cost too much to produce because of their obsession with cutting edge graphics.

BG3 and Claire Obscure Expedition 33

Based WRPGs with their exquisite and great turnbased combat systems.

He's right, and the turnbased JRPG people seething at his opinion dont understand that its all about FINAL FANTASY not being turnbased anymore. For a genre that necessitates basic reading comprehension, the idiots throwing out BBUT BRAVELY DEFAULT / OCTOPATH/SAGA/TRAILS/PERSONA/METAPHOR cant understand that it isnt about their fucking series bring turnbased. Its like these fags seem to forget that it was Yoshitpee that kept insisting that FF shouldnt be turnbased so that added fuel into the fire. No they dont fucking care if BD was turnbased, they want mainline Final Fantasy to be turn based again

Honestly...how many people care this much about Final Fantasy anymore? Is it just MMO players or something?

You have FF14 and FF7-onlies (with purists and remakefags going at it) those are your 2 remaining holdouts for rabid fans.

ATB

>>>>>Turn Based

the best Western-style open world games are now from Japanese studios

the best JRPG-style games are now from Western studios

Unironically how did this happen.

He's right, and the turnbased JRPG people seething at his opinion

Why would turnbased jrpg fans be seething at the guy calling for FF to return to turnbased? The fuck are you talking about.

what is wait mode

It's literally engagement farming. Notice how it's celebrated how Yakuza shit changed genres but gets hate when Final Fantasy did it.

If you check the replies and retweets on his posts you have falcom/atlus and 2nd banana squenix IP fans like SaGa chewing him.
x.com/LumpyTheCook/status/1916174879872749968

Its like they dont understand that theres vitriolic arguments and comparisons being made not because theres a lack of turnbased games, theres a gorillion out right now with a fucking Trails in the Sky remake coming out soon, but because he just wants mainline FF to be turnbased again, but somehow these people srem to take it as "well if you want turnbased again why atent you playing /these/ titles that are NOT Final Fantasy????" Its retarded and lacks understanding.

Doesn't Squenix actually still do turn based games, but with their B-team and less marketing?

Octopath Traveler II

Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake:

Bravely Default: Flying Fairy HD Remaster

Romancing SaGa 2: Revenge of the Seven:

Dragon Quest I & II HD-2D Remake

Fantasian Neo Dimension

They either play too safe with remakes or make new ips with minimum investment, I guess.

Post the budget for 16 and Rebirth or shut the fuck up retard.

Actually when the yakuza games switched gameplay there was a huge backlash from Yakuza purists saying it isnt Yakuza anymore, and it seemed like it was bad taste too since it was revealed in an April fools video

It did not happen desu, you simply don't play the right games.

Every pokemon game sells 10 million copies in a day and people still make statements like this

Yes, Square Enix is retarded. The kind of blockbuster game they're trying to make isn't even popular anymore.

gay tranime dating sim

Pokefags would buy shit if it had the pokemon logo in it. You have scalpers camping out of pokrmon vendos just to buy the entire contents out

Nobody cares about that failed game. It's all about Oblivion. Bethesda makes the best designed games. We all buy Oblivion and play it now. Stupid fake news thread.

Honestly, they should just go 2.5D HD (like Octopath Traveler, just with a bigger budget/scale) for the next game. It would be much cheaper than what they're currently doing and people would eat it up.

On this note, HYKE is coming out this summer and is a nice 2d style.

pokemon spin off games sell horribly, it's only the turn based ones that do well

Expedition 33 isn't a true turn based RPG if it needs interactivity to keep ADHDtards hooked.

Someone at enix convinced them that FF= West and they should just design it for the average western player who hates rpg's. FF is like the Mortal Kombat of JRPG's now, nobody who is actually into the genre is looking forward to the next FF/MK.

Maybe it's worked for them business wise (MK also rakes in cash) but it's absolutely raped the IP so bad the only ones left in the fanbase are the weirdo secondaries who are clueless.

Skill issue. Its more JRPG than recent Final Fantasy games. Keep on coping.

Square Enix have not made a single good game in their entire life.
They've published 1 or 2 good games but nothing they've done themselves has been any good.
Their entire existence has been one failed attempt after another at chasing some sort of mythical """modern western audience""" that doesn't actually exist, because they are Japanese and can't really comprehend what the west actually wants. (hint - we want square to make turn based JRPG's for fucks sake)

I can't believe we're doing the whole "Japan is trying to pander to the West" thing AGAIN

I thought they got over that a decade ago after the last push

Claire Obscure Expedition 33

what a retarded fucking name for a game
it's even worse than PUBG: BATTLEGROUNDS

500k sales not players in one day
You're already coping

I definitely don't want the slop that is their action games.

They did. Many more games are not even being considered for translation now than ever before (I am contributing to this personally as well.)

Even if Square changed their recent games to be turn based the fundamental problem is that the pacing, writing, and themes are SHIT

FF15 would still be roadside poopoo with unfinished plots and flat characters removed from the game randomly for plot convenience

16 would still fumble at the last 3rd

Forspoken would be floppa for bad writing

These two games are not comparable to Square. Ex33 is close though but BG3 is all about interactivity that Square games have never had

(hint - we want square to make turn based JRPG's for fucks sake)

good thing they aren't listening to you retards who don't buy their games.

e33 made on a fraction of the budget of FF games that's the difference

Is that game even any good?

worldmaps are too goof- ack

turn based is too bor- ack

jrpg tropes cant be kin- ack

it takes french weebs to show the world the light.
The overworld map is SOVL
Turn based combat can be interesting and interactive has been proven since P5
JRP tropes like hooded secret orgs and shadowmen hiding in the corner of the screen watching your protag are KINO. Now all they need is a japanese voice over

Anime style so no.

It's not even comparable, 33 shat all over FF16 and Metaphor. Metaphor had some of the ugliest and laziest dungeon I've seen in an Atlus game and it's a batlant reskin of Persona with a press turn system that feels stale. People say how good the story is, but the game started with one of the wackiest anime deaths I've seen in a fucking medium, with Grius jumping like a missile instead of using his powers just so he to die frozen in air like a bitch.People say 33 got shilled, but Metaphor got shilled to the fucking infinity be journos that gooned all over the half-baked social issues in the story.

As for FF16, it is the peak homogenized game made by Square. It isn't a jrpg, it isn't a proper action game like DMC, it got a sole playable characters for 90+ hours, it doesn't even have an element system so you can do retarded shit like killing bombs with fire. It's was game made by a comitte with the sole aim of selling it to the maximum amount of normies.The dogshit story was written by a nip who read 70 pages of GOT so he could write a bait and switch premise and have a copy of Cersei that vanishes after the intro. The late game dumped everything from the introduction and any form intrigue just so it could become one more tale about Muh Crystals and Muh Ayyliums.

westerners save the JRPG genre

crazy

Calling France the west is a stretch. They also made Fuga, and wakfu they're massive weebs.

Funny how you literally posted a picture sourced from a random Reddit user, with no basis whatsoever
meanwhile, the people who actually work on the game and multiple analysts have said it cost over $300 million, see pic related

They never said turn based was dead though. Do people know how to comprehend the things they read anymore?

It;s not even that. What people call ''The West'' itself is not a cultural monolith.

all those games with nudity coming from Europe

the USA censoring any sign of a boob

Age-old classics once denounced like Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter are finally getting vindicated

Obnoxious retards shitting up threads isn't "getting vindicated". Still nobody knows or cares about Dragon Quarter.

Persona 5 and Honkai Star Rail already proved Yoshi P wrong. This is just pissing on his grave at this point.

Adding to what everyone else said, it's not even confirmed FF16 sold 3 mil. We never got an update on the "shipped" number.

file

finally, a good twitter post.

I like spreadsheets

Go play Eve online. Plan how you stack damage to finish the fight as quickly as possible instead of being a pussy.

thread about turn based combat

Oh interesting, let's see-

squeenixfag posting the same 10 images

anti-squeenixfag posting the other same 10 images

Nevermind

Dounts

Did they get the lazy cop the lazy donuts?

Nobody ever said nobody wants turn based. Obviously they just came to the conclusion that the majority prefer action

Clair Obscuras combat revolves around real time inputs. It's an amalgamation of both systems, but it diminishes the strategic aspect of turn based by doing so in my opinion.

This comes up ever time a turn based game releases to acclaim and success and the answer will always be the same. No. Somebody at Square hates turn based games.

SE releases multiple turn based games every year

they have a z team who shits out half assed garbage for nintendo handhelds
Nothing with the scope or budget of Expedition 33

1st release (2006)

lol I got halfway through this post before I was ready to just reply with this

they literally release more turn based games than anything else. They have 2.5 franchises that are arguably action based and they get less than one release every two years on average

westoid weeping

Many such cases

The last big budget turn based game released by Square Enix was Dragon Quest XI in 2017
8 years ago

chibi autoslop

Square Enix is wrong about nobody wanting turn based games anymore

When did they say that?

qa lost btw

That's technically correct, though

Final Fantasy X-2 (March 2003) was the last Final Fantasy game released by Square before it merged with Enix in April 2003

Final Fantasy XII (March 2006) was the first Final Fantasy game developed by Square Enix

with Grius jumping like a missile instead of using his powers just so he to die frozen in air like a bitch

What difference would this make? The King's power would still fuck him up because he went for an assassination attempt against someone in the top 10. Did you really play the game? They spelled this out for you

If you're nullifying/dodging every single attack you're using some TAS computer bullshit. There is absolutely strategizing and builds in this game, more so than most JRPGs. It sounds like you're just too shit at video games to deal with the implementation of a reaction based system. Cry more faggot.

This. Gamers love turn based games. Square is just out of touch.

Square Enix has always been wrong about this. Fans of Final Fantasy wanted deep RPGs. They just kept dumbing everything down and went full action game. A turn-based RPG can offer a ton of complexity and deep build/party systems. An action game cannot.
Aside from that it's just comfy.

SE wants to somehow sell 10m units in three days. It will never happen and I believe FF will sell less and less while those idiots pursue their 10m units in one day rainbow.

when will nostalgic boomers understand that games succeed in spite of turn based combat not because of it. If you have a good story with an interesting setting you can have people doing anything and they will choke it down.

SE's always been wrong. Didn't need BG3 and this game to prove that.