"gameplay is king" sentiment has never been stronger

It would appear to be Dark Souls with more purple.

you're thinking about it the wrong way.

gameplay is king is true in the same way that personality is more important than looks.
it is true, but in order to get attracted and put your attention somewhere to even get to the deeper layers, surface appeal has to be there first

It's funny how you can this plays like shit just from a jpg

gameplay is king

this sentiment was always a little retarded

he thinks tweet saying gameplay good with 100k likes equal 100k actual vidya players

you need to learn that Xitter is the loud minority of social media

I watched the entire playthrough of it, and the game is kino as fuck.

Western video game

gameplay

roflmao

gameplay is literally what makes the medium what it is

your sentiment is a little retarded

it has cool bosses with unique mechanics but there are only few of them and overall the game is just OK

So what exactly are you bitching about here OP, that good games get completely shit stomped by the overinflated marketing budgets afforded to dogshit AAAyy games?
Because that kinda goes without saying.
Specifically if you're talking about nintendofags though, their whole schtick is pretending that they have exemplary gameplay, rather than the absolute fucking basics

seems like the gameplay is more about playing with 3 different abilities.
A beam that lets you pick up stuff/enemies in the world and throw it around, and fire and ice beams that let you freeze and burn stuff, that have actual gameplay effects.
the trailer showed off freezing the wings of a dragon boss to bring it down, but that seems scripted as hell.
mildly interesting outside of that.

Fatal fury cotw

I played the demo, the movement and combat is floaty and very unsatisfying it's in a totally different bracket to something like Elden Ring. It's actually the opposite of what you're trying to portray, it has a lot of interesting aspects and ideas, that are all brought down by the poor gameplay and modern D&D writing/characters.

Everyone would be creaming themselves over its "revolutionary" gameplay is king gameplay if it were a Zelda game

>"gameplay is king" sentiment has never been stronger

if that was true touhou would be selling better than call of duty

it's okay, mr. marketer.
your game may not be as popular as zelda, but you still did ok. you don't have to seethe here

Call Of Duty is kinda shit, but it's a (fairly removed) clone of Counterstrike which is pretty much the gold standard of the kind of shooter it is.

he says while defending a game series that gets by entirely on marketing

As a solo indie developer I can tell you that "gameplay is king" is BS. You don't need RTX ON graphics but your game does have to look flashy and exciting graphically (eg. Vampire Survivors) and ideally have its own art style. Gameplay only matters AFTER the visuals get people interested.

holy fuck, are you actually a marketer? don't shit your pants there bucko, you're reading way too much into a nothing post

purple

No thanks

"gameplay is king" niggas when there's a single ai generated voice line or random texture in the game

While it's presumptive to assume you're not a gamer, I will say as a gamer "flashy and exciting graphically" are genuinely some of the LAST words I would ever use to describe Vampire Survivors.

if thing that didn't happen happened, then this statement that I can't be verified would be true

ok

I watched a minute of gameplay on yt.
It fucking sucks.

AI Generated Indians when gamers don't want the 32st shit they've spammed onto steam in that hour

It's 2025, if your shitty game doesn't have perfect gameplay and content and features for weeks with amazing graphics and music then it's not worth playing anyway and I'll go back to UT 2004

So gameplay isn't king then.

Everyone would be creaming themselves over its "revolutionary" gameplay is king gameplay if it were a Zelda game

So where's this revolutionary gameplay then shill-kun? You want us to give it a shot show us that you aren't just lying through your teeth.

Games are more than the sum of its parts. Not because they are "art", but because they are products.
Everyone has a favorite game or two they use as a reference to compare to other games (gameplay-wise, for example), but people are willing to accept "serviceable" gameplay in order to enjoy other aspects a game (be it story, soundtrack, funny physics gimmicks, multiplayer with friends, etc. or any combination of them) because not every game will ever be as good as Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.
A popular example of this is Skyrim. The combat gameplay is trash? Yeah, but people can use mods to turn it into a high fantasy world simulator with bootleg harvest moon mechanics and all the gore and porn of their deranged dreams so they are fine with that.

There are hundreds of action games on Steam, why would anyone play a "gay as hell" action game? An anonymous post on the internet saying "it's better than Zelda" won't convince anyone to give it a try.

I don't play videogames where you're forced to be a woman, unless it's an explicitly sexy woman.

It's just not worth the financial risk anymore.

Gameplay is king, which is why nobody wants terrible asset flip garbage you retard.
There used to be a guy dedicated to shitting on you retards for somehow managing to slip by Valve curation, but he got asscancer and died.

The screeching about ZUN using the Adobe generative AI trained exclusively on Adobe stock photos they own to generate some background textures was some of the most retarded shit that ever happened.

ew, that looks gross. it has that ugly purple zoomer magic whatever going on, and signature plastic-y quality of an Unreal5 game. 6/10 i'm being generous here would not play myself

Incredibly dogshit quality thread by faggot op who just makes shit up.

Gameplay is king, which is why nobody wants terrible asset flip garbage you retard.

You just contradicted yourself. You say that gameplay is the most important thing and then immediately say you also care how the assets are produced and how that's enough to turn you off from a game. Which clearly means gameplay isn't the most important thing. But to admit that would make you look not cool among your "Anon Babble friends" so you talk in circles without making any sense.

throwing a tantrum for insulting Zelda

Mental illness

implying a game with AI shit in it would have amazing gameplay

And that's why you leave marketing to professionals instead of discord randos.

Same shit when retards who say "video games are art" throw away their values as soon as a soulless cash grab remake is put out.

Asset flip garbage has shit gameplay because your focus first and foremost is scamming people.
You can twist yourself into a thousand knots trying to cope, but that's the long and short of it.
If you could make good games, you wouldn't be doing asset flip crap.
Stick to phone fags, it's way easier to scam them.

How would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning

You only say that because you hate AI, not because you "only care for the gameplay to be good".

actual paid shill having a breakdown because Anon Babble of all places said bad things about his game

lmao

Gameplay is king, that's why platformers are the worst genre there is
Sports games are pure fucking gameplay, eat shit if you can't get past that "muh sportsball" hurdle in your mind to play games that are actually challenging and fun

Nice goalpost moving.

yeah pretty much this.

gameplay is ultimately the most important thing but it's not the ONLY important thing. and things like aesthetics do matter. not as much, but they do.
also it's hard to sell a game based on gameplay alone, because you can't actually tell how it plays until you buy it. you can tell me how great the gameplay is all you want, but it means nothing to me until I actually get my hands on it. so there has to be something else to draw me to the game initially. I don't have enough money to buy every single game on the market just to see if they have good gameplay or not. you gotta give me a hook.

Anyone who thinks AI is usable has shit taste and couldn't make a good game.

name a game with AI stuff in it that is good

Me not bringing the goal posts closer to you because you can't kick the ball hard enough is not me "moving the goal posts"
I've been in the same fucking position the whole time.

platformers are among the most gameplay heavy genres wtf are you talking about

He hasn't even posted a gameplay webm. He posted a single screenshot and said we wouldn't like it because it looks gay. Whoever hired this guy better get his money back.

I don't know how later sportsball games are, but I played a few back in the day on xbox huge and they were bretty good fun.
I still can't imagine paying yearly for them, but still.
even the NES sportsball games were great. you can boil down the gameplay to be really simple and it's still a blast

Gameplay is king. However its not so simple, a game is built upon all pieces of the puzzle. Story, characters, sound design, animations, maps, weapons, enemy design, enemy gameplay, and even the 'lesser' important ones like atmosphere, artstyle and graphics, all eventually add up. Think of any critically acclaimed gameplay focused game, and that game also has other great parts about it that came into play and made it so big.

fighting games are pure gameplay and they have a more sophisticated design and mechanics.

most sports games now kinda suck. i miss the era of arcadey sports games

>game with incredible gameplay gets released

>everyone ignores it in favor of worse games with better brands/aesthetics/memes etc

what game exactly are you talking about?

You started seething about asset flips and how they're scams because you're neurotic about AI. I was trying to point out how for people it now matters how the assets are produced. It's funny how you can't even keep a coherent train of thought.

gameplay is king fags having a meltie because OP exposed them as posers

Hilarious to watch

Same fagging isn't doing you any favors POST GAMEPLAY WEBMS ALREADY SHILL-KUN

name a game

"UHM NO THAT DOESN'T COUNT CAUSE I DON'T LIKE IT!!

”Gameplay is King! Nothing else matters what so ever.”

Ok, prove that graphics and sound don’t matter by turning yourself into Hellen Keller. Go right ahead. If gamephics don’t matter you don’t need sight, and if sound doesn’t matter you don’t need hearing.
Have fun trying to play video games with 0 sound, graphics, and WWWWHHHHHAAAAAATTTTTTTTRERRR!

Wrong post?

You started seething about asset flips and how they're scams

implicitly stating you think dropping asset flips on people isn't scamming them

Noted and any sort of generosity I had to pretend you could be just be retarded discarded.
Make a business of making games people would actually enjoy, not trying to shit out a minimally "viable" product to trick people into buying you entire circus.

This an incredibly obscure secret, so don't tell everybody, but people who say stuff like "Gameplay is king" are usually absolute retards (in the true sense of the word, they literally lack some part of a normal human brain that the rest of us have been graced by God with possessing)

Some gay UE5 asset flip

And off he goes. You literally just proved my point with your entire tirade about AI, btw. Gameplay isn't king, certainly not for you that is.

making up a hypothetical to save face, instead of simply naming one

You can keep violently seething but I'm not gonna buy your asset flip and it has shit gameplay because you have fucked priorities

Non-desaturated colors

Play as a half-Asian chick

I will now buy your game.

looks like a mobile game

This is modern shovelware, no wonder no one played it.

Age of Empires 3
Brew Barons
The Finals
There you go, happy now? Oh wait you're not, because you're gonna immediately dismiss these all 3 as being shit anyway for having AI in it.

But you did have breakfast this morning.

Is it just posers?

Yes, it is. Gameplay isn't king and never was.
Context is king.

game with incredible gameplay gets released

Post it then.

aoe3 has ai in it?

hurr durr the enemy AI :^)

don't do it to me

strawmaning and projecting in the same post

Lmao
I wasn't even trying to seriously defend AI or even sell you anything. I literally just pointed out that not having AI in a game matters to people more than good gameplay even, and thay made you super mad for some reason. :)

You're full of shit, this is just a janky breath of the wild clone with a gravity gun

Looks are king then?

Those games suck eggs besides aoe3?

I may have confused it with some other strategy game that was a third in it's seires. It's not Age of Empires but it was something similar, made by a Polish solodev I believe.

Vampire survivors is literally the best example of gameplay is king. That game looks like a cheap flash game with stolen sprites and I can tell you not a single soul picked it up because the visuals looked good.

I wasn't even trying to seriously de

You were and it was pathetic.

Y-You're MAD :))))

Uh huh

but people are willing to accept "serviceable" gameplay in order to enjoy other aspects a game

Thats only the retards who dominate the hobby, they will eat literal shit if it has event a hint of the thing they like.

I guess, these kind of games are naturally repulsive. You just have to see a single screenshot and you'll move on.

Kek. Literally called this.

NOOO THEY SUCK BECAUSE... BECAUSE THEY HAVE AI!!

Spark the electric jester 1 & 3

he's so enraged he can't even quote posts properly, but he's totally not mad

Suure.
Chillax, or maybe dilate I dunno.

Who said because they have AI?
They just aren't very good.

And which game is that?

2 slop games solely made to sell and one good game that has no AI stuff in it

where is the AI stuff in AoE3?

It's the best example because it's a 1:1 rip of a mobile game that got zero traction until the Vampire Survivors dude marketed his ripoff with memes, if gameplay was king then the original would've been successful

Gameplay is king. And games can be amazing DESPITE being terrible in other ways.
But if your only selling point is gameplay and you make the rest of the game horrid, from the visuals, to marketing, to audio, literally everything is shit besides the gameplay. Then why should I give it a chance?
You can't smear shit all over a waterslide and expect people to try it out. Even if its the most fun slide you have ever been on.

I have no idea what that is, but I'd play it.

2 slop games solely made to sell

Lmao, I quite literally called this shit. You retards are more predictable than an AI itself.

They just aren't very good

I'm willing to bet you never even looked at their store pages once.

It's really funny how you idiots go out of your way to say "GAMEPLAY IS KING, ONLY GAMEPLAY MATTERS" and then go on and act like this. You fags really are all just posers.

Wo Long and Nioh 2 come to mind. I've never had more fun with combat than in any other games.

of course it matters, because it lets everyone know the dev(s) are lazy shits who don't care about their own craft.

there is no and likely will never be an axtually great designed game that uses AI shit. and I will be undeniably right until it happens

Brand recognition is king. People don't want to think, they just want to take comfort in familiarity and know other people are playing the same thing they are. The game could be total dogshit (ie pokemon or new horizons), it doesn't matter.
The worst ones though are the people who should know better, but aggressively, rabidly defend whatever brand they've devoted themselves to.

I'm not really sure if you know this, but just pretending every game that has AI crap in it has amazing blockchain gaming in it and when everyone tells you they're shit crying that they're not allowed to say they're shit is not a winning strategy

mobile game

There's your problem. Nobody plays mobile games for the gameplay.

*Brand recognition and marketing

I wouldn't say Mario necessarily has "the best gameplay" at least as far as 2D goes (3D Mario actually might be peak 3D platforming).
2D Mario is just a consistently good core pillar of the genre that more or less anyone can enjoy, because the difficulty and amount of novel mechanics from stage to stage is more or less perfectly balanced.
If you're looking for "the best" 2D platformer, then that's probably a Castlevania game, or Rocket Knight Adventures.

i will make the argument that the sun is actually not bright. as long as i put

inb4, it literally is bright, you can measure it hurr durr

in my post, anyone correctly proving me wrong is therefore automatically wrong :^)

this tactic is even gayer than saying "reddit spacing" or "concession accepted" when you can't make your point

he fell for the "gameplay is king" meme

of course it matters, because it lets everyone know the dev(s) are lazy shits who don't care about their own craft.

there is no and likely will never be an axtually great designed game that uses AI shit. and I will be undeniably right until it happens

So like I said. Gameplay isn't king. You also care about the visuals and audio of the game, a lot more to the point where you won't even consider a game if it has AI in it. You can spin your justifications all you want but you basically proved my point. Gameplay isn't king.

LOL
Can you even do wallrides in this "game"

caring about the single thing that differentiates games from other mediums is wrong

Jak and Daxter, and Astrobot clear 3D Mario

I said you don't need graphica fidelity, you need spectacle. 5000000000 projectiles = spectacle.

Samefagging? Nice one. I literally said that there's no point in naming any game because you'll dismiss literally every single one you can name. That's what I'm pointing out here. I was proven right and yet here you're the one trying to save face

3D Mario is dog shit, and even the primo example nintendo fags point to Super Mario 64 isn't even a good 3D platformer if we're only taking the N64 into account

nah.

Yah tho

You keep crying that nobody is allowed to notice the gameplay is shit, or that we're talking about some entirely hypothetical game that wouldn't exist in the first place.

Nothing else in the genre compares to how fun Mario's full moveset is to master.
You probably got filtered, and think a double jump is better than a long jump.

what i was implying is that those kinds of people also lack the brains and understanding and dedication to design and implement good, sensible and satisfying gameplay, as that is the hardest part to get right in vidya and also because that's what the thread is about.

the fact you automatically assume everything through surface level thinking makes it no surprise you don't think that gameplay is king, because you don't even know what constitutes gsmeplay and how many parts of a game interplay with it

No one gives a fuck about mastering a moveset in a game for literal babies

So you're saying Mario was too hard for you?

Mario hasn't been great since SM64. The problem with platforming games is the masses don't actually like them much. They just see mario, buy it for that, and tap out on the genre for anything else. Odyssey blew ass, but sold because mario. If it was the same game, but different name and released on steam by some rando, nobody would care.

This image implies the creator is fully aware that whatever games qualify as "best" actually actually play worse than Mario.

It's shit and the only solace I can take in how violently astroturfed Mario 64's "amazing gameplay" is that the people peddling it have had to spend the past 30 years desperately trying to convince the world that a D tier 5th generation platformer is actually good.

Gameplay is king but...

I've seen enough

because that's what the thread is about

The thread is about claim about gameplay being the single most important thing not being correct. You literally keep proving it over and over by going on about how bad AI is. And instead of admitting that OP was right and that gameplay isn't the only thing that matters to you, you talk in circular logic, throw adhocs and now even lie. I don't understand why.

Magic Survival has fucked itself over by not releasing a PC port as soon as VS blew up. A shame, as i played it before VS and Magic Survival is VS if it was actually good and demanded a bit of skill from you.

not samefagging, just quoted my post accidentally instead of your reply to it.

again, just going "hurrdurr you will say [thing that proves me wrong]" doesn't shield you from criticism.
you unironically brought up a run of the mill f2p mp shooter and a mediocre action game that barely counts as "game that uses AI" because the thing that is AI (voice lines) you could literally leave as just text and it wouldnt change the game.
and your third example doesnt even have AI stuff in it.

for someone trying to make a point in a smug and confident way, you failed miserably. you were even insecure enough to already pre emptively trying to make sure to have a failsafe so you could cry about people disagreeing.

You keep crying that nobody is allowed to notice the gameplay is shit

Good try but I didn't say that. I was trying to show you how you'll dismiss a game entirely because it has AI regardless of what it plays like based on whatever assumptions you have about quality relating to AI. I don't understand why you got so assblasted about it and keep going on anti-AI tirades when AI wasn't even the point of all this (not directly).

CTANKEP 2

gameplay being the single most important thing

gameplay isn't the only thing that matters to you

not the anon you're arguing with, but these statements aren't the same thing. *most important* does not mean *the py important*. most important implies there is a hierarchy of other things of lesser importance - but still quantifiable importance.

give a concrete example of a game with incredible gameplay which got overlooked

That game also barely evolved past initial release. Most those clones get attention through drip fed content.

You really can't, it does big enemy climbing better than Dragon's Dogma and that's not even the only thing it has going for it combat-wise

*the py important*

the only important* lol I fucked that up

mediocre action game that barely counts as "game that uses AI" because the thing that is AI (voice lines) you could literally leave as just text and it wouldnt change the game.

So what counts as a "game that uses AI" then? Enlighten me. I thought it was supposed to be a game that uses AI at all in any capacity and has that disclosure on Steam.

and your third example doesnt even have AI stuff in it

I already admitted earlier that I named the wrong game.

Is that what you got out of that post? If reading is this hard for you then I see why you would find Mario games challenging

I literally thought DK64 was better when I was a kid, but I have to admit Mario64 has stood the test of time way better.
The core movement is way more fun, which lends itself better to replayability, challenge runs, and romhacks.
You got filtered.

Based. Ive got this saved for when i need a new game to play. Ive heard great things about it.

You've been crying this entire thread that nobody is allowed to notice that there hasn't been a single good game with the inclusion of AI garbage, or constructing a strictly hypothetical game in an attempt to try and convince people that they are compelled to pay for scam shitware as some kind of retarded gotcha.
This hypothetical game both can't and won't exist because the priorities in development are fucked.
And EVEN IF IT DID, the statement

Gameplay is the most important thing with regards to a game

Is not mutually inclusive with

You have to pay any asked price at all no question asked for a game with "good gameplay".

ill repeat it once more because you can't read. or think for that matter

people who use AI in their project that demands their passion and hard work anyway would only do it because they lack intellect, ingenuity or integrity. all factors that make it a near guarantee that such people would also be incapable of designing good gameplay.

you are more than welcome to try to refute this by showing me one game with actually good gameplay (gameplay means more than controls btw) that has AI in it.
but you can't and you won't, so don't bother replying at all

Clearly gameplay isn't the highest on the hierarchy when you dismiss a game entirely for using AI in it.

If anything, I think the Galaxy games are my preferred 3D Marios. The level design is tighter.

Good try but I didn't say that. I was trying to show you how you'll dismiss a game

So you were saying it.
The problem is that you're assuming everyone is retarded as you

understanding this requires a modicum of thinking. which all these fags don't do

You outwardly admitted you don't get why Mario 64 is fun, because you never tried to master the controls.

well who the fuck cares???

People who play video games, man.

god dman , you should stop playing videogames altogether if you consider buyin a game a financial risk

You got filtered.

Literally both wouldn't even be a possibility if the game had good gameplay, and an admission that you think the gameplay is bad (but are taking it as a point of personal pride for tolerating it)

Mario 64 is the clunkiest piece of shit I ever had the misfortune of playing, the game's reputation has entirely been carried by the Stockholm Syndrome kids who had the bad luck of getting stuck with a console with NO GAMES which caused them to invent their own challenges and delude themselves into thinking what little they had was somehow so amazing it makes up for NO GAMES

Notice how the only demographic that sings Mario 64's praises is millennial burgers, usually autistic, because no one else cared for the game at the time since the N64 only sold somewhat okay in NA, anyone who played it outside of that window can see it for the prototype-tier clunker that it is

Magic Survival deserves more credit for being the original, but it falls for a lot of pitfalls it's ripoffs learned to avoid when it comes to gameplay. It will only last you like two sitting which means there's barely time or reason to experiment with builds.

Maybe you should try thinking for yourself instead of asking the computer to make you sound smart.
Because you're straight up retarded.

But we aren't talking about M rated western AAA games that hold your hand more than Dora the Explorer.

then gameplay is not king, no need to go on a mental gymnastic over being an hypocrite

Is your definition of bad gameplay any game where the controls aren't streamlined to the point of idiot-proofing?
Bro, it's a kid's game. I got through it fine when I was 8. It's not that hard.

Once again with moving the goalposts and seething over AI. I guess you're just gonna ignore what I say and talk in circles.

Clearly it's you who can't read. My initial claim was that there are things that matter to you people way more than "good gameplay". One example is not having AI assets in it, to such a point that you dismiss games with it entirely.
I don't care about your stance on AI, your justifications or whatever, I'm just trying to show you that not having AI clearly matters above everything else in a game for you, especially when you made that write up about ingenuity and integrity. You're trying to put words into my mouth that I never even said because... You can't admit that gameplay clearly isn't the only/most important thing for you? That's strange.

Yes, we're talking about Mario, a game for literal, unironic babies

This is why demos should make a return

cry

Guess I must've really backed you into a corner when all you do is throw insults around now. Lmao.

clunky

there it is.
point and laugh at the fag zoomer who gets stressed out and overwhelmed when a minimal amount of spatial awareness and motor skills are demanded of him

i would love to hear your explanation as to why it's supposedly bad or clunky

Um I'll have you know I'm in an exclusive club of esteemed individuals who eat diarrhea for babies, this is a high position of great honor and I demand you stop calling me a fag who likes shitty videogames

Still admitting the game isn't all that great.

see

So what does that make M rated western AAA games then?
Games for fetuses?
Where is the hand holding and yellow paint in Mario games? Where is the homing attack attached to melee attacks? Where are you told the answer to any puzzles the moment they come into view?

I finish and replay games with good gameplay, otherwise I probably just finish it and uninstall it or drop it mid way.
What's the point if the game is not fun?
Simplistic indie games with addictive gameplay sold well

I might be a retard who's completely wrong, but did you know that trolling? That means I won this argument and you have to stop calling me a retard

Retard.

gameplay is king when deciding how good a game is
gameplay is not king when deciding how well a game will sell

thus, it comes down to whether you actually like games or whether you're a suit who hopped the industry bandwagon to grift a little money

I don't care, I'm not talking about those, I'm talking about the literal baby game series Mario

I mean, in the first place I said "3D Mario", not Mario 64. I like Mario 64 fine. I also like all of the other 3D Mario games, and if anything, I think they kept getting better.
I think Galaxy 2 is the peak of the Mario 64 style, and 3D World is a really good slightly different take on the idea of 3D Mario.
Odyssey I'd have to get back too. It beats you over the head a little bit with all of the bloat.

hehe you can't play games when you don't have electricity, clearly gameplay isn't the highest in the hierarchy

get owned, nothing personnel, kid

Literally both wouldn't even be a possibility if the game had good gameplay,

Nah, you're conflating dropping a game with being filtered by a game.
When you drop a bad game it's because the game itself is a fault through either bad game design, controls, mechanics that just make the game a chore to play.
Being filtered is when you have a good game that you just suck at and can't comprehend, that's why it's called a casual filter.

the game for babies is more demanding and intellectually stimulating than M rated games

Not the own you think it is retard-kun.

whataboutism

Cool, Mario is a game for unironic babies still

Demos are more prevalent than ever.

Oouhhhh the clunkiness

They didn't get better, I'm not saying you CAN'T like Mario 64. or any of those games.
I'm just saying they aren't exceptional at all and a fair deal of the rest of the genre has better games.

Seethe.

isn't that the troon game? No thanks, not even worth a pirate

No, that's everyone. Planescape Torment has dog shit gameplay, yet people praise solely due to the writing. Souls games have mediocre gameplay, but people stick around for the atmosphere and challenge. Even series praise for it's gameplay like DMC and Ninja Gaiden, te actual gameplay itself is the first thing people stop discussing, meanwhile it's characters are talked about for years.

mmm actually "gameplay is king" when

save yourself the lame excuses

Yes, that is what you're doing when you've been told

No it's not an argument to cry that people notice that games that use AI are shit.

bro if you ignore the terrible controls, the bloated moveset, the horrendous camera, the disgusting visuals, the repetitive levels, the stupid combat, the nonsensical bossfights, the abhorrent gimmick levels, the pointless powerups, the lack of QOL, the plethora of glitches, the non-existent challenge, and invent your own challenges in these handful of areas I kept playing over and over as a kid then it's a 10/10 masterpiece best game of all time

You were given Stockholm Syndrome by a fat italian plumber

What a shit thread all I see here is cope

My initial claim was that there are things that matter to you people way more than "good gameplay". One example is not having AI assets in it, to such a point that you dismiss games with it entirely.

you still dont get it.
when devs use AI shit, it is a near 100% guarantee the gameplay won't be great either

i really can't put it simpler than that.

and yes, gameplay is not the ONLY important thing, but is the MOST important. there is an implied hierarchy, when saying it is "king", quite literally. jesus.

It's not a Nintendo game to my knowledge

It's only a game for babies because it doesn't have characters shouting fuck more than a british guy watching the footy in the local pub or gore and torture porn.
Mechanically it's far more demanding than games for "adults"

Whoa hey anon, don't you know that they're trying to beat the game without jumping.
That means it's good!

So are ZUN games retroactively all bad gameplay?

The video part of VIDEO games is just as important as the game part and this looks like crap.

Mechanically it's far more demanding than games for "adults"

It's not, maybe if you're mentally challenged as that illiterate anon proved a couple of posts up

when devs use AI shit, it is a near 100% guarantee the gameplay won't be great either

and yes, gameplay is not the ONLY important thing, but is the MOST important. there is an implied hierarchy, when saying it is "king", quite literally. jesus.

So is it the most important or is it not? Because you keep saying how it is and then say that AI stuff = game bad which means gameplay isn't the most important, with not having AI stuff in being more important to you.

Unless you'd be willing to try a game with AI generated assets in it, but somehow I doubt you'd do that.

you still didn't explain anything, you just throw around empty descriptors.

explain WHY it is supposedly bad, i bet any amount of money you can't. because you don't understand it or videogames in general and have never been good at them either

Mechanically it's far more demanding than

Having multiple completely arbitrary technically similar "jumps" does not make the game more demanding or complex.

the birb is a theybie

Only when you explain WHY you think I should explain that

Keep dismissing my point retarded little troon and talking about AI. I already proved myself right.

Webm? From the pic it looks like an open world HL2 physics demo

If "gameplay is king" people actually cared, they'd be playing combat flight sims, but they don't!

it's not

The answer the questions here Where is all the hand holding for babies in the baby game? Why is all that hand holding only in "mature" games.

It doesn't need hand holding because it's so easy

You sure seem angry that I'm not playing along with your retarded little game.
Maybe if you actually gave a shit to put some thought into it it'd be more fun.

You can't bring up any better 3D platformers. Saying "Astro Bot", is like saying a decent tribute band is better than the original act.

Both the aesthetic and gameplay are important, if your game doesn't do well in both regards then it won't be a great game, it might be okay if it only does well in one of the two, but to be a great game it needs to do both.

Problem is that a lot of smooth brain retards can't tell the difference between a good art direction and GRAFIX, a high resolution and gay post processing bullshit does not mean a game has a good aesthetic, and I'm tired of pretending that shit like framerate, resolution, and raytracing is whats most important in games.

I don't give a fuck if a game is locked to 30fps 800x600 with no anti-aliasing as long as its fun to play and has a cool art direction.

Seems like that question completely fried him. Lol

holy shit, you really have no reading comprehension.

the same mindset and level of understanding that makes it okay for someone to use AI in their work is the same understanding and mindset that guarantees they cannot design good gameplay.

again, if you doubt this, tell me really well designed game that uses ai for stuff like models, music, sfx, or textures

Pong and tetris is pure gameplay too did they play it hmm??

No, but needing to position yourself while jumping to land on an enemy or position yourself in 3D space to punch an enemy DOES make a game more demanding or complex.
The mature games have a dumbed down copy of Sonic's homing attack so you don't "whiff" the attack and lose "immersion."

see

Let me guess, it's rollslop.

gameplay is king.

problem is, 99.99% of games released in the past 3 decades have zero innovation gameplay wise.
shoot
drive
collect
build
explore
and usual very one dimensional in setting.
using the same controller layouts from 25 years ago.

stagnation is insane.
i can only hope ai gives something worthwhile, and literal endless world to explore, that randomizes every new game, would be a good start.

i've given up all hope on hardware input changes.

No, but needing to position yourself while jumping to land on an enemy or position yourself in 3D space to punch an enemy DOES make a game more demanding or complex.

You don't need to do this in Mario games, they're ridiculously easy

Something like Crash 4 is a challenging 3D platformer

because if you cant explain why, it makes it increasingly likely that the game isnt bad, but you simply don't understand it and how it works.
if you understood it, you would easily be able to explain your reasoning as to why it's bad

your turn

Jak and Daxter I can agree with but Astrobot is dumbed down and made extremely easy and forgiving.

Gameplay is the centerpiece that connects every other aspect of the game together. In a good game, either those elements are there to serve the gameplay or the gameplay is there to service everything else.

This games pretty fun actually
I’m just completing my backlog
It’s fun to pick up objects and chuck them at monsters, reminds me of half life 2 game

Astro Bot

doesn't have the long jump, the triple jump, or the side flip.

So, it lacks half of the fun things you can do in Mario.

Or maybe you just don't want to admit that gameplay isn't the most important to you. You keep throwing around your justifications about how anyone using AI is retarded when that's not even relevant. I'm literally showing you how you dismiss games entirely on the basis of having AI. I don't care why, only that you do. It's clearly showing thay gameplay isn't important for you because you care more about the art assets not being generated by an AI.

And for the record, because I know you'll pull this shit, no, I'm not trying to defend it.

gameplay is king so we NEED TO make our characters ugly as fuck and the story shitty to make sure no one is enjoying them

Is Jack and Daxter even a platform series? I remember those games being way more about running around in the ground.

But you haven't explained WHY I need to explain it, you just threw out some empty platitudes and thought that would be enough, if you knew what you were talking about you would easily be able to just explain why I need to explain it

It was very light on it.

Not that guy, but AI just looks like shit and has literally no soul to it, which means any game that uses AI for its assets will have an overall soulless and shitty art direction, and if they had so little passion and inspiration that they would think having such a bad art direction i okay, their gameplay is probably derivative boring bullshit that I've already seen done but better 100 times and its safe to just ignore their shitty slop game.

Where is all the hand holding for babies in the baby game?

Right here

Depends on what you take away by the statement.
Gameplay is extremely important so I'd agree with it, but that does not mean gameplay is the only thing that matters.
The sound design, the aesthetics, everything should work together.

Crash 4 is a challenging 3D platformer

No, it's a busted piece of shit that's poorly made. Has no understanding of physics, Crash Bandicoot as a game series, good color balance or screen readability and even has mechanics working against each other because the devs are objectively fucking retarded.
It's challenging in the same way Bubsy 3D is challenging. Not because it's well developed or well balanced but because it's a piece of shit.
Toys for Nogs can't develop good games for shit. They even made a technologically inferior "remake" to a PS1 game. How do you fuck that up?

Astrobot is dumbed down and made extremely easy and forgiving.

My experience with every Mario game

If that puts you off then gameplay is not king, simple as

optional

That's downright hardcore compared to some cinematic AAA game that holds your hand every second of the way, and has regenerating health.

Your walking simulator is shit op. Walking up to the next thing to hit E to spraypaint woke graffiti is gay as hell.

200 posts

0(ZERO) webms or videos of gameplay

OP is a humongous faggot

You should just git gud son

Platformers

Gameplay

Funding terrible games is absolutely a risk, yes.

goalpost move

I win

I don't care why, only that you do

clearly, because if you cared about why, it would be clear that I am not contradicting myself at all.

not my fault you don't want to engage in good faith, just so you can "win" an argument with a stranger on an anonymous online portuguese dirt sifting forum

can still die

doesn't hand you everything as you play

still requires you to solve the stage and environmental puzzles to get secrets

no homing attack

Still less hand holding than M rated games.

unironic toys for nogs shill

Yeah, no, you wouldn't understand good game design if it raped your mother.

this dumb shit you're trying doesn't work because I actually did explain.

don't bother replying, you're just being pissy because anyone can prove you just got filtered by a nearly 30 year old game that kids could beat back then

Rich coming from a Nintendo shill

gameplay is le king

This was me until i played Dark souls 2. I don't care how good your gameplay might be if the game looks like dogshit smeared over my screen i'm not playing it.

My point wasn't about AI itself. My point was about how gameplay isn't the most important thing. The most important thing, apparently, is to not have AI assets in a game because people dismiss the game entirely based on their preconceived notions like you did. I'm not trying to say whether that's bad or good, but that this is what people prioritize first and foremost now.

Pointing out idiotic logic is "not engaging in good faith"? You're the one who's been dismissing my point entirely this whole time.

N-Nothing else in the genre compares to how fun it is

Play crash you faggot

still hasn't explained WHY I need to explain what he wants me to explain

I guess you just don't understand how arguments work

I'm interested in the gameplay but repulsed by everything else. The pastel art-style, the generic fantasy game world with no hook.
No amount of game mechanics can pull you out of that mobile tier artstyle UI.

I am mad that my video game didn't sell

Nintendo shill

Literally said Jak and Daxter was better mechanically than Mario 64

You don't even pay attention to the words you read, that's why your M rated slop needs yellow paint everywhere.

My point was about how gameplay isn't the most important thing.

Well thats just retarded, whats the point of playing a game if its not a fun game?

Not mechanically, just better in general

Gameplaybros...

Mario's moveset is more fun to master than Crash. Crash's standout is it's level design and environments. His moveset is very simple and lacking in complexity. However his levels are better designed and far more interesting to navigate.

I am mad my hypocritical clown poser logic got called out

Good gameplay is the most important thing but its not the only important thing, the art direction also needs to have appeal.
The issue is that retards get art direction mixed up with GRAFIX and think the most important thing in a game is the framerate, resolution and post processing effects even if the game looks generic and has generic boring gameplay.

I think it might have been a successful game if it used generic grimdark store assets and dropped you in the game with no story exposition bullshit.

The best platformer, or even the best game of all time knows that gameplay is not the only thing despite being important.

Mario's moveset is more fun to master

There's nothing to master because the levels are trivial and the game itself never creates an incentive to master anything

Fucking Spyro gets more challenging when it asks you to catch the egg thieves

I must cope with my lack of sales by projecting a strawman on every poster on Anon Babble

You can't bring up any better 3D platformers

Saying Astro Bot

Bringing up a current generation game

You did this to yourself, you didn't have to do it, but you chose to.
Crash Bandicoot 1-3
Banjo Kazooie and Tooie
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Spyro The Dragon
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2
PacMan World 2 and 3
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger
Kingdom Hearts 1
Ape Escape 1 2 and 3
Jak And Daxter
Ratchet and Clank, and Going Commando
Blinx the Time Sweeper
Blinx 2
Gex 2 and 3
Rayman 2 and Rayman 3
Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
Sonic Generations
Sonic Colors (feel free to whine that this doesn't "really" count as 3d")
Psychonauts
I don't especially care for it but Spongebob Battle for Bikini Bottom
Wario World
Mirror's Edge (Yes, it counts)
Marble Blast (and it's various recompilations/sequels)
Pitfall the Lost Expedition.
And these are all the ones I can be fucked with rattling off the top of my head

I must cope with my cognitive dissonance by projecting a shill boogeyman on every poster on Anon Babble

reddit spacing

lies through his teeth

seethes over Nintendo even when someone says that some non-Nintendo games are better

Can't just admit he's wrong about something

Why are your kind like this?

implying I think gameplay is king

KEK

Wtf? Is this real??

thinks reddit spacing is a thing

Yeah we're done here tourist

Also yeah the egg thieves are more challenging than anything in SM64 lmao

Any recommendations for platformers that don't treat the player like a baby? I don't mind unfair by mainstream standards.

Yes, it's just posers. Gameplay is important, but it can be edged out by artstyle, graphical fidelity, character design, and/or story.

Just look at Thief. One of the best stealth games to ever exist. But the biggest complaint from even a lot of supposed stealth game enjoyers, was that its graphics didn't look as good as other 3D games released in 1998. And so it did not sell nearly as well as it should have.

This will continue happening until they release a game they really love with AI and suddenly they'll backpedal into "well, I guess photorealistic textures are okay".

He spent the whole thread crying that people wouldn't pay for a hypothetical game that used AI assets and had good gameplay.
No shit OP is the biggest faggot cocksucker on the board.

still mad about being proven to that gameplay is less important than not having ai assets

Jesus

Photorealism =/= good art direction
if I wanted to see realism I would go the fuck outside, I want to see cool aesthetics in games, not 4K brick textures.

Pointing out idiotic logic is "not engaging in good faith"?

no, but ignoring someone's spelled out and repeated multiple times logic because it would go against your point is.

for the last time:
a person who would put AI shit in their game is very likely also not capable of designing good gameplay.
this is proven by the total nonexistence of well crafted games that happen to have AI in it.

White knuckle is pretty interesting but it has procedurally generated levels

I was interested in this game until I heard it has like 3 unique bosses
Might get it at a steep discount in future
The real thing you forgot to factor in is that us gameplay is king mfs have hundreds of games to play already

what level design?

Retard. Doesn't matter how good the gameplay and art style is if the game is a low res, stuttering mess that plays at 20fps.

you can just lie about not having AI assets
nothing is gonna happen

The boss fights are epic and fun.

The Gen-Z lovechild of BotW and Shadow of the Colossus. Worth it.

KEK.

Took you long enough.

For the last time: I don't care about what you think about AI or it's use in games, I keep trying to tell you that you clearly value not having AI assets in a game more than it's gameplay. Whatever preconceived notions you have about it are irrelevant, you care more about not having AI as you time and time again kept proving yourself. How much more do I have to dumb it down for you?

Speaking solely mechanically

Crash 1, 2

yes

3

no

Banjo

yes

Conker

No

Spyro

no

PM World 2

yes

w3

no

Ty

Yes

KH1

That's an RPG not a platformer and it's platforming is far too stiff

Ape Escape 1-3

yes

Jak 1

yes

Ratchet 1 and 2

yes

Blinx

no

Gex

Anon, please...

Rayman 2 and 3

Yes

Billy Hatcher

Falls under too different to be a traditional platformer, still a good game

Sonic Gens and Colors

No, Adventure yes however

Psychonauts

yes

Spongebob

no

Wario World

no

Mirror's edge

no

Marble Blast

not a platformer

Pitfall

no

There is a huge difference between a stable 20fps and a stuttering mess.
The problem isn't that the FPS isn't triple digit, its that its stuttering.
I could play games at 12fps as long as the aesthetic of the game was built around it,
high FPS =/= better game.
There are very few genres where a super high refresh rate makes a difference at all, as long as its stable it really doesn't matter.

If you aren't a shill for this game, pick literally any other game with good gameplay that was unsuccesful.

you're all retarded.

if gameplay isn't king or the most important aspect, you could take it out and still have a good game.
this however is impossible.

none of you use your brain even for a second.
gameplay is by default the most important because without it, you have no game

Boktai 2

it's about climbing monsters
shadowofthecolosusslop

Retard, asiatics consume autoplay gachas on their phones

my assumptions on the implication on gameplay if AI shit is present is clear and correct.
otherwise you would be able to point me to well made gameplay in a game that uses AI stuff to prove me wrong

if attractive characters put you off then gameplay is not king, simple as

my favourite games are movies games

Rayman 2 and 3 were much better platformers than any Mario

Story is the only one you listed that can actually edge out gameplay. No one is gonna play through a shitty game because they like the art style a lot, but people will play a shitty game because they enjoy the characters/story. See: Soul Reaver 2.

My favorite games are RPGs so I guess I do love story and character building
But I also love stupid action games

you have bad taste, but thats okay, play what you like even if they aren't objectively great games. You aren't obligated to stop liking what you like.

No one is gonna play through a shitty game because they like the art style

Sorry anon but this is readily disproven by the fact that gacha rules vidya profits

my assumptions on the implication on gameplay if AI shit is present is clear and correct.

Funny how you call me stupid, even though I told you many times that this isn't relevant. Whatever you say. Point being, you value not having assets over gameplay. That's it. Seethe about AI all you want, that's not what I'm talking about. People like you talk in circles anyway.

Touhou

gacha

play through

You mean the thing you only get after dying repeatedly and then mocks you by permanently locking full completion if you use it?

12fps

Nah, fuck off. 60fps is the bare minimum

There are very few genres where a super high refresh rate makes a difference at all

Any fucking genre where you actively control your character is better at high framerates. Action games, platformers, racing, FPS, TPS, rhythm, ARPGs, all feel better to play at 144FPS than 30fps. Then you have a genre like fighting games where shit is literally balanced around the framerate. As a matter of fact, every single game becomes a better game the higher the FPS.

So what's the point saying "gameplay is king" over and over again? Is it just posers?

It's just tranny tactic trying to silence you and distract you from insanely ugly character designs nowadays.

if predence of AI wouldn't invariably negatively affect gameplay I wouldn't mind.

it matters to me because it does affect gameplay outcomes. been saying this since the first post. ofc you intentionally ignore this detail and say it's irrelevant, because then you'd have no legs to stand on.

again, you could simply prove me wrong instead of cowardly intentionally misunderstanding me to make your "point" by posting a really well designed game with AI in it

I also like Hollow Knight and Hades 1. That's probably the least "movie" games I like (single player).

Tbf it sort of replaced television when the golden era of television was over so I'm not pretending it isn't anything else. More bang for your buck too.

So I looked up the steam trailer for this shit.
And I can tell from looking at it that NO the gameplay is not better than any action game you listed. It looks like the same janky shit I expect from the west

Industry veterans that I've never heard of

red flag 1

unironically using YT comments in your trailer

multiple comments mention "yeeting" something

So you shilled a dogshit game, that can't even make it's trailer look appealing AND is clearly trying to pander to reddit and I'm meant to think that this is better than any good action games?
FUCK OFF SHILL

More bang for your buck too

i have to disagree there, just based off the fact that movie games and story/dialogue heavy games are typically no fun at all to replay

Nah, fuck off. 60fps is the bare minimum

Literally not necessary
As long as a framerate is stable it can be as low as it wants to be.

But what about all of these very fast or competitive genres!

Yes those are exceptions where a high framerate can be nice, still not necessary either though, no reason why a fighting game couldn't be built around functioning at 30fps.

Regardless, even if the game maintains a steady 240fps even on low range hardware, it doesn't really matter unless the gameplay is good and the art direction is good. Shit like framerate, resolution and post processing should be an afterthought intended to make an already great experience a little prettier to look at, but literally why should I give a shit about a game being 4K 240fps if its got a generic art direction and generic gameplay?

Marbleblast is totally a 3D platformer you queef

I was comparing movie games to movies. I got 150 hours out of witcher. I'd have to watch almost 100 movies for that

ah i see, yeah that's true then

You can tell this guy was born in the 2000s

Played Uncharted 4 for the first time recently and it was great. Give me more games that are like this (not the other Uncharteds, don't feel like emulating)
Combat was really enjoyable

gameplay is king

"I LOOKED"

If you were serious about gameplay you would've pirated it to try it out, fuck off poser

goalpost move

I win

60 and above is necessary for fighters, racers, precision platformers and any type of shooter

anything else can be played fine with 30 or even 24. ofc when it comes to fps more is better generally, but thats a different point

waste your data to download what looks like dogshit

no
If they can't even show their gameplay in a trailer properly why should I trust them? Who are these supposed "industry veterans" anyways?

Do you try out every release on steam?

no, of course I don't

So why should anon try out this one specific game? Because it was slightly more popular than the other shovelware?
What you're saying is marketing is king

Casuals are retards who don't know what they want.
The average normalfag wants to be part of a community and involved in discussion, so they want very short games that look pretty because graphics are the only thing they feel confident in criticizing. Things like gameplay make them nervous discussing because at any point in time someone can just say "skill issue" and handwave even the most valid points.

precision platformers

My favourite ones run at 50fps

LOOKS like

Poser

I don't claim gameplay is king so I'm not a hypocrite when I don't try out games before dismissing them

60 and above is necessary for fighters

Most fighting games are locked at 60fps anyway, but they would be fine at any resolution as long as you can maintain it without dropped frames. The stability is the most important thing with fighting games because they become basically impossible to play with dips

Not gonna play your dogshit game, shill. I bet it's full of DEI too

Well since you didn't want to answer my question, I looked it up and WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT? There's a reason you refused to answer. The "veterans" are from BIOWARE CANADA. Those faggots haven't made a single worthwhile game that felt good to play. Why would I trust them to not fuck it up now?

games have good enough gameplay while having immense scale and narrative fulfillment

when you say an aspect of a game is priority doesnt mean its bad when a game isn't fully focused on gameplay, they just have richer gameplay loop with characters, neat environments, quests and so on

Find more excuses for your hypocrisy poser

How is that moving the goalposts if you have to show you can't handle the game to get it?

So gameplay isn't king, credits are? Good to know

reddit spacing

refused to post webms

look up game

looks like dogshit(GAMEPLAY WISE)

HURR YOU NEED TO DOWNLOAD IT AND TRY IT PROPERLY

game is actually made by incompetent retards that used to work at Bioware Canada branch

The only poser her is you. Bioware have never made a good game. Even their "good" games like Dragon Age Origins or Mass Effect are janky dogshit.

This is not a fallacy. Gameplay being king means gameplay needs to be good
You can easily judge if gameplay is dogshit by trailers and gameplay videos. No one ever said you have to judge every game's gameplay by playing it yourself
Same way I can call a game written by SBI out for shit writing without reading every single line of dialogue

thinks there is such a thing as reddit spacing

underageb& tourist

>"gameplay is king" sentiment has never been stronger

Yup, this is true, but like most things there's a balance and you need a minimum of effort in art direction or storytelling and the "loop" should be fun.

Slay the spire, Balatro, FTL, Binding Of Isaac, Hotline Miami, Darkest dungeon and a lot of other indie games proved just that.

There is some random game that has good gameplay

I swear it's good, look at how I named it in OP

Look how the player base is getting smaller every month

It has good gameplay based on your opinion and you are a shitter aren't you?

You can easily judge if gameplay is dogshit by trailers and gameplay videos.

You can, it just means you're not serious about your claim

im not sure id like to play a fighter at not 60.
unless you compensate for it by slowing it down

incompetent retards made a game

OP is telling us to give it a shot

look up the gameplay

looks awful

trailers can't even show off gameplay to make it look appealing

OP demands you waste data to download this slop

only reason he's shilling it is because the incompetent retards worked at his favorite slop factory Bioware

Not playing Bioware slop. Never playing Bioware slop. Fuck off Bioware shill.

As long as a framerate is stable it can be as low as it wants to be.

Fuck no, have some standards.

no reason why a fighting game couldn't be built around functioning at 30fps.

There could be one, but no one would be play it because it'd be slow as fuck and boring.

literally why should I give a shit about a game being 4K 240fps if its got a generic art direction and generic gameplay?

The opposite is also true. Why should I have give a shit about some 480p, 15FPS game with no AA? Doesn't matter how good the art or gameplay is when the very act of playing the game itself is unpleasant.

Can you call a game's artstyle shit based on trailers without seeing every single art asset of the game?
Anyway you're baiting so no more (you)s

look

look

LOOK

There you have it, looks are king, gameplayfags in shambles

He's a Bioware fanboy so that should tell you everything.

Can you call a game's artstyle shit based on trailers without seeing every single art asset of the game?

You can because you're judging the visuals in both cases, if you're judging mechanics then you need to play some of it before passing judgement if you're serious about "gameplay being king"

say look in reference to the gameplay

bioware shill thinks I mean graphics

Bioware LOL

i get his point, there's more to gameplay than controls. level design and pacing is part of it for example.

also you can judge a lot by seeing it, but "gamefeel" you need to experience, which is also part of the gameplay

Elaborate.

>OP demands you waste data

Good morning saar

To retard zoomer “gamers,” “gameplay is king” just means that they don’t want to have to read anything.

if looks were king and not gameplay, you could remove gameplay and still have a game.

Yeah, it would definitely need to be balanced around it, but it could be neat. My point really though is that there's nothing really all that magical about 60fps, 24fps is the standard for animation and that shit looks fine.

Can you remove looks and still have a game?

But that's every zoomer's favorite game. Open world games have no gameplay, you just hold forward for a while

Name one (1) actual game released in the last 15 years

Good gameplay and systems

Amazing visuals and world design

Great sound design

Strong narrative

And yet most people do not even know the game (No Rest for the Wicked) exists.

Gameplay is literally how you control your character.
For example cookie clickers gameplay is literally just spreadsheet simulation but it's phasing and game design make it interesting not it's gameplay.

A blank screen?

Bioware LMAO

judging gameplay based on how it looks instead of how it plays

As if this thread needed further evidence "gameplay is king" fags are retards

Amazing visuals

Pfft nice try

for animation yeah, but games require player input and getting input feedback, on which fps is a bottleneck under 30, generally. the difference between a stable 24 and 30 alone is very noticeable.

and I say this as someone who has no issues whatsoever playing OoT and OoT romhacks on original hardware. feels normal to me, but when i then play it at 30 even on decomp it does feel better to play, i have to admit

Fuck no, have some standards.

I care more about if the gameplay/art direction is good than I do about dumb shit like FPS and resolution.

Why should I have give a shit about some 480p, 15FPS game with no AA?

if the gameplay and art direction are great? I dunno, probably because it would be a great game. Why should I give a shit about a 5/10 game just because it has fancy GRAFIX?

I think you might have spent too much time on reddit trying to prove that you're a real and true hardcore gamer and forgot why you even care about games in the first place if you really think these things are so important that you wouldn't play a great game because it doesn't have a high enough resolution and the framerate is a playable and stable 15FPS but you want 240FPS

It's rollslop and an early access grift to boot

chef says taste is king

refuses to eat new foods because he doesn't know how they taste and doesn't want to find out

It would be very hard to take that chef seriously when it comes to his takes on food (and food analogies)

"Why isn't it more popular???"

Are you retarded or are you pre.. wait forgot you are bioware fag. Nevermind.

NOOOOOOOOO YOU CANT HOLD CERTAIN BELIEFS YOU CAN ONLY HOLD MAINSTREAM BELIEF

Kill yourself retard.

and I say this as someone who has no issues whatsoever playing OoT and OoT romhacks on original hardware

For the record, OoT is only animated at 30FPS but runs at 60FPS, every visual frame has two input frames

Gameplay is king, but a king still needs subjects that don't get in the way of his plans at the bare minimum. What's the point of a kingdom if everyone you rule is a bunch of fat, incompetent retards?

doesn't eat a new food because the smell alone makes him retch

Fixed your analogy

So what's the point saying "gameplay is king" over and over again?

"gameplay is king" means that before anything else a game should be fun and/or engaging to play. It does not mean I would prefer a game with 10/10 gameplay, ASCII graphics, and the entire soundscape being edited clips of the dev farting into the mic.

chef got filtered by kimchi and many great cheeses

Not a good chef then

you can't remove visual representation fully, obviously (although there are blind people who play fighting games, a very gameplay focused genre) but tetris is a literal 10/10 game and still would be, even if you were only left with black and white, flat silouhettes of everything

Arsenic has no flavor, but if it was a key ingredient to a "delicious" dish I wouldn't eat it you dumb retard.

You said there's no handholding in the game, and there is, you moved the goalposts and lost the argument

Food analogy

Fuck you are stupid. And your analogy isn't even correct.

Taste is king

I have made new food

What are the ingredients?

YOU JUST TOLD NE TASTE IS KING WHY DONT YOU TASTE IT?

This is the correct analogy, people who taste food, who make food, who know anything about food will understand underlying problems with your food by ingredients alone, tasting food can show some nuances you didn't expect but it cannot be opposite of expectations

Gameplay is the most important part of a videogame does not mean gameplay is the only important part of a videogame.

Former Bioware devs

faggotry of some description

And OP is surprised we don't even know it exists.

>What are the ingredients?

>YOU JUST TOLD NE TASTE IS KING WHY DONT YOU TASTE IT?

Ingredients are king then, glad we hashed that out

Chef has never smelled sour cabbage or cheese.

Your analogy is falling apart the more you dig into it.

dev pedigree and lack of faggotry is king instead of gameplay

Gameplayfags will never recover

OoT runs at 20, not 30 and you can feel it even with doubled input frames. most games have more input frames than visual frames anyway.
the phenomenon of inaccurate visual feedback due to it still happens

Ingredients are what makes taste. Yes.
People who play games can understand by watching the gameplay what ingredients are used in that gameplay. You moron, absolute fool.

This retarded mother fucker has now admitted to seeing no fucking problem with putting arsenic in food and would get mad at people for coming to the entirely reasonable conclusion that a dish would be terrible if it had it in it.

It's not, you're further proving my point and pretending it's somehow making you right instead

that's because the best fat italian jumping on mushrooms game
IS AN RPG

So taste isn't king, it's lack of lethality?

I dare you to find a game that looks as visually striking as NRFTW. The game looks like a moving painting at times.

Dodging is the worst defensive option in the game and being early access does not make it a grift.

gameplay is king

touhou

bro those games suck ass
if I wanted game design from the last millenia I'd pick up chess

Point that the chef never smelled sour cabbage? Dish that exists in all cultures? Or that he never smelled cheese?
Your argument can be boiled down to

You aren't good enough to judge gameplay by video because I can't do it

Don't bother, these retards will keep talking in circles and strawmaning points to keep going. I already tried to explain this to them with AI assets, and they instead constantly went on tirades about AI itself, ignoring my original point completely.

gameplay isn't king, how the gameplay looks is king

This explains why zoomers don't play games but rather watch ecelebs play them, it makes so much sense

It does not mean I would prefer a game with 10/10 gameplay, ASCII graphics, and the entire soundscape being edited clips of the dev farting into the mic.

dwarf fortress is kino though

dev pedigree

Bioware

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Taste is king and any retard putting arsenic in their food is not making something that tastes good no matter how angry you are that people can draw conclusions.

chef claims taste is king but refuses to eat sour cabbage or cheese because it smells bad

Yes that chef is a retard

I can't understand that analysis, it must be fake

Sooners don't play games because new games are objectively ass.

without gameplay there would be no game.

it's really as simple as that. gameplay IS king

So you'd gladly eat poison-laced food as long as it tastes good?

Let me just change words so I can be smug

How about you don't do that and instead argue in good faith?

UM BUT HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THAT YOU WOULDN'T PLAY A GAME THAT GAVE YOU SUPER AIDS?
I AM VERY SMART

Kimchi and stinky cheese smell great though. And somebody who doesn't like cheese taste also doesn't like the smell

Vampire Survivors

gameplay

pulling a slot machine lever is not gameplay

VNs are games and contain no gameplay

There are no video games that don't contain visuals, meaning visuals are king of VIDEO games

game trailer is meant to make you interested in a game

shows gameplay in a way that's meant to be interesting

doesn't look interesting

Why should I try a game that doesn't even know how to make it's gameplay look appealing?

trailers are king

TrailerGODS.. I kneel..

He's a Bioware fanboy. He's acting just like the Failguard shills did.

VN's are no more games than choose your own adventure books are games. meaning they aren't.
it's literally in the description. visual NOVEL, idiot.

you can play rock paper scissors blind. you can play street fighter 6 blind

Good morning saar

VNs games had a cult following for a reason, and games with pure gameplay alone got nothing else to discuss, that's why they are short lived and forgettable

VN's are no more games than choose your own adventure books are games. meaning they aren't.

They are games though

you can play rock paper scissors blind.

Not a video game, very easy to cheat if one or both players are blind

you can play street fighter 6 blind

Just because you can play it blind doesn't mean it doesn't contain any visuals

See, he's a jeet

Allowing India onto the internet that actual people use was a mistake.

we need to go back to the era of blatantly false bullshots and deceitful trailers.

Trailerbros... We won..

The best 2d and 3d platformers are about a fat Italian jumping

Is there a 3D Pizza Tower game I'm not aware of?

They are games though

explain to me and everyone witnessing your buffoonery how something with no gameplay can be a game

Just because you can play it blind doesn't mean it doesn't contain any visuals

but it means you can leave the visuals out and it is still a functional and playable video game

Not a video game, very easy to cheat if one or both players are blind

but a game nonetheless, i am making a broader point.
also the easy of cheating has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. complete non sequitur

I care more about if the gameplay/art direction is good than I do about dumb shit like FPS and resolution.

"Dumb shit" like FPS and resolution directly affect how you interact with the game. The game is going to both feel and look like shit when those aspects are subpar.

Why should I give a shit about a 5/10 game just because it has fancy GRAFIX?

I never said you should? I disputing you saying dumb shit like FPS and resolution doesn't matter, which is a stupid thing to say unless you're a cocksucker with no standards who just eats whatever is shat on his plate.

if you really think these things are so important that you wouldn't play a great game because it doesn't have a high enough resolution and the framerate is a playable and stable 15FPS but you want 240FPS

Because I have fucking standards you dipshit. I don't care how good a game might be, if simply looking at it is unpleasant, then the game is shit. If the game is running at a dog shit FPS then it's shit. Stop being a cum gargling retard and have some fucking standards man.

I wish

How do you feel about DLSS?

a playable and stable 15FPS

WHAT? You don't even play games do you?

explain to me and everyone witnessing your buffoonery how something with no gameplay can be a game

Because they're interactive media sold in game stores

but it means you can leave the visuals out and it is still a functional and playable video game

You can't, the visuals have to exist for the game to exist, you cannot make or access the game without the visuals existing somewhere, for someone

but a game nonetheless

A game that amounts to "guess the number I'm thinking of" in every aspect, VNs are better games than that

A few good ideas don't make good gameplay. It's janky as fuck. Westerners can only make shooters.

its simple OP, I can say the gameplay is shit an autowin any arguement

to play devil's advocate: something like pokemon or old final fantasy or digital chess can be played at 15 fps perfectly fine

Damn, this tranny got mindbroken by two posters for being called out as a poser. The seethe is crazy.

Every single Anon Babble GOTY or approved game in the last decade has been pure jank though

Thirdperson action game

masculine female protagonist

damage numbers in a hack n slash action game

random cutscenes mid level

visual novel textbox cutscenes

mobile user interface

if this is a good game in 2025, video games are donezo

all of this shit is more important than gameplay

Wild

15 FPS =/= input polling or game state updates 15 times a second
Incidentally related, this hasn't been a thing since gen 5 (with some rare cases of gen 4 games playing with it)

Yeah... Even RPGM games are Anon Babble-core apparently

Well I've got good news for you, it isn't a good game. It's just a Bioware shill mad we aren't simping for former Bioware devs

I'm not sure if making "gameplay is king" fags look like mindbroken idiots was your goal but you sure are good at it

Depends on the game. If it's a competitive game then I'd rather just play on all low to increase FPS without increasing input delay. If it's a fun single-player game but it's optimised like ass, then I'd use it for the increase in FPS.

Spend the entire time crying that gameplay is king fags say your game has shit gameplay

Declare victory in 5 playercount

Because they're interactive media sold in game stores

interactive media =/= video game.
so the red bull i can buy next to the counter in an electronics store has now magically turned into an electronic device? besides, they also generally sell books in game stores. and to that point:

is a choose your own adventure book now a videogame if its presented via software?

You can't, the visuals have to exist for the game to exist, you cannot make or access the game without the visuals existing somewhere, for someone

demonstrably false as a blind person can fully play SF6, which is s very gameplay intense game. the visual thigns just represent numbers. all the calculation and what actually happens doesnt need visuals. the visuals are only there to represent calculations.

A game that amounts to "guess the number I'm thinking of" in every aspect, VNs are better games than that

better or worse is a different point and a different topic. a VN might be morr enjoyable, but it is not a better game because it isnt a game. it is a choose your own adventure novel presented digitally.

This nigga is just repeating himself is he okay?

you could say "the sky on a clear day looks blue" and some retard on Anon Babble would tie himself into knots and disagree, just to try and "win" an argument against an anonymous stranger online

Looks are the hook, yes. Which means if it looks bad or repulsive (which this game does for me) you're not giving it a second chance. It needs to look at least passable.

interactive media =/= video game.

How do you define a game then

is a choose your own adventure book now a videogame if its presented via software?

Yes

demonstrably false as a blind person can fully play SF6

Which is irrelevant to the fact SF6 needs tons and tons of visual elements to actually exist as a game, if you removed them the game would cease to exist, you DO know that falling trees make a sound even if you're not around to hear them? These are basic object permanence concepts you're supposed to figure out in toddlerhood

better or worse is a different point and a different topic

No it's not, guessing what number someone is thinking of is a piss poor game with shit rules and gameplay compared to a good VN

If it's a fun single-player game but it's optimised like ass, then I'd use it for the increase in FPS.

So you're saying you would reduce the actual FPS for a simulation of higher FPS?

709877949

xhe's seething this hard

Go dilate already, sista?

If it feels smoother, then I don't really care as long as there isn't horrific artifacts or ghosting.

How do you define a game then

a set of predefined rules and mechanics within which a player competes against himself or other entities, typically ending with a win or lose condition

Yes

how? is a digital music album also now magically a video game?

Which is irrelevant to the fact SF6 needs tons and tons of visual elements to actually exist as a game, if you removed them the game would cease to exist, you DO know that falling trees make a sound even if you're not around to hear them? These are basic object permanence concepts you're supposed to figure out in toddlerhood

everything underneath the visuals in a game comes first. a videogame is just a collection of abstract data and calculation based on player input and number generators.

the visuals come into play AFTER all of that can exist.

apparently you completely snd fundamentally don't understand how a videogame works.

No it's not, guessing what number someone is thinking of is a piss poor game with shit rules and gameplay compared to a good VN

again. at least it has gameplay, which VNs don't have. which you yourself said in your first post.

If it feels smoother

DLSS will make it less smooth, it just interpolates the frames. You have a lower overall framerate and response time, but in return you get the illusion of the game running better.

If it "feels smoother" thats just a placebo effect.

Since we are shilling good obscure games here and not getting pulled into pointless circle jerks.

Play Cloudbuilt

Wasn't there a sequel or enhanced edition or something called Super Cloudbuilt? I could've sworn an anon recommended that in a sales thread once
Did I fucking hallucinate that?

no, some kind of issue with the publisher caused super cloud built to get taken down. biggest tragedy in gaming nobody ever heard about.

So this confirms it: OP is a faggot.

Looks like complete shit.

Mario 64 is mogged hard by pretty much every 3D mario since, but it was the original so I have to give it credit for doing as much as it did with as little as it had.
Wouldn't bother today if you have ever played a game with manual camera control. The jumps are nice but pretty standard and the simplistic early 3D environments aren't worth the hassle of wrangling with the limitations the game has.

Original still worth playing?

complains about graphics in a gameplay thread

I like the aesthetic, personally.

100%, devs kept pushing out performance updates and bugfixes for the original the entire time.

I don't care about graphics aside from when they make my eyes bleed. It looks like it has chromatic aberration applied to every blade of grass. I'd VERY quickly get a headache trying to play it.

LookGODs can't stop winning
Gameplayfags BTFO

Wishlisted, thanks

I love Mario in general, but I was an OOT kid, liked Paper Mario more too. Even at that age, I thought Mario 64 looked like fucking ass and played like it too. Turns out most of the games textures are just bought assets stretched across the landscapes. I don't think that game was made with pitfalls in mind until they added them later to extended the runtime for kids playing the game. Every Mario game after 64 was better than it.

Fair enough, wouldn't want to hurt your eyes.
Game probably looks better in motion to most people. But it has a neat little in game camera function that lets you take cinematic screenshots that I wish more games had.

holy shit, i remember when this was doing the rounds years and years ago.

2014

shiet

Google it

Uncracked

No demo

Forced to watch YouTube because I can't try before buy

Game looks like it plays like a gay worse dragon dogma

Yeah ok

>Uncracked

What did he mean by this

you did not make an argument for WHY eternal strands has better gameplay than those other games, this statement is thus merely your opinion, and you getting mad about people not sharing it

Yeah, not that I should care about how popular a game is, but it does kind of bother me that indie games threads rarely talk about games released more then 2 years ago.

Recency bias means if you try to talk about that old game, nobody else will respond to you

As if text would be more convincing than actually playing the game

everybody plays it with a tileset

i guess it's like, indie games are already pulling only a narrow audience by way of not being AAA heavily marketed sloppa.
Then it's a crap shoot if a lot of people really get into the genre of the game itself.
these days, game dev groups on twitter do a good job of spreading the word of good up and coming games, and the algorithm works for that too, but it's still easy to get lost in the crowd.

I get you though. Plenty of probably fantastic indie games that simply get overlooked because nobody talks about them, and then they're forgotten by the end of the year

Yeah but some games hit that just right combination of features that make them timeless. and its not really clear what those features are.

art direction

Meaningless buzzword. Resolution and framerate have impact on gameplay. I will never play a game that doesn't hit at least 90fps

"gameplay is king" is a cope used by PC niggers in the third world who can't afford 80$ games or run anything past 2018

he says while posting from a laptop with a 75hertz monitor.

I'm just waiting for a decent discount.

You will pay 80$ to play a sony exclusive slowburn bone-chilling cinematic experience and I will pay 0$ to watch it on Youtube. We will have the same experience.

Huh wonder why the usual stomping ground didn't have it. Oh well cats out of the bag looks mediocre at best

slowburn bone-chilling

Wrong meme

You will pay 80 dollars for GTA 6 on PC in 2029 after everyone has played it and spoiled it

I won't, I quit GTA 5 a quarter of the way through cause it was boring as shit

Meaningless buzzword

It is only a meaningless buzzword to uninformed or people too retarded to know what that means

Gameplaykings and Aestheticschads are talking, graphicsfags should be silent.

Sandbox game

Spoiled it

I hate rockstar games but this is the dumbest argument of all time

The art style is the only good thing about this game. UE3 trash from back then with shit character controllers galore. Goddamn I'm still mad after all those years

Anon it's even worse... it's a GTA nigger

Once you've finished highschool you'll learn to appreciate games that aren't call of duty or have similar brainrot gameplay that instantly reward you every few seconds

Very epic, 2/10 I replied

Once your out of high school you can appreciate

Checks notes

GTA

6/10 made me giggle but laying it in a little thick

no, an LG C4

Does this use unreal engine? I don't see any mentions of it.

Regardless I'll say filtered and you should try it again. you might have improved in the past 10 years.

If a game's narrative fails to grab its audience then its on the game devs
GTA used to have a Yakuza-level absurdity and humor element to it, that kept a lot of people engaged in an otherwise average plot. After doing away with the humor elements, we are left with something that doesn't interest people which is why it needs the online aspect.

Khazan First Berserker is unironically my goty

Anon...
A lot of these games are meh to be quite honest. Also including Kingdom Hearts in 3 D platformer is really telling of what you think a platformer should have.

I agree that the best is testing everything under the sun to know what is cool and what blows so playing more games is good. But most of the "3D platformer" you've listed really don't put the movement in the spotlight, it's debatable but for one I agree with the statement that a platformer SHOULD NOT have a double jump. A double jump clearly signals that the game is messy with the positioning and includes the second jump to "correct" the first movement. A lot of the PS2 platformers like Jak and Daxter, Ratchet, Sly are just not about movement. They're mostly about shooting, clashing with enemies and press Square for Awesome (fucking Sly for example).
I like The two first crash, and you can argue for Spyro, but most Playstation platformers excepting Ape Escape were decent at best, but never as great as 3D Mario.

Ask yourself, could you replay these same games with a slightly different level layout? If Jak had the exact same assets but with a different level design, would it be enjoyable or just a drag to get through?

I know for a fact that I've played for nearly 100+ hours SM64 hacks recently and it's some of the best moment to moment fun I had these past years.

Conker would be absolute trash without its gimmicks or if they overstayed a slighr bit for example. Mario in a different level design never gets old. I can totally see me playing hacks of Ape Escape but certainly not Sly.

troonshit

good gameplay

lmao

meh to be quite honest.

Best SM64 description I've ever seen

After doing away with the humor elements

It was a great mix of straight up immature humor and american satire
The newer games seem to have dropped both the humor and satire and mostly play it straight and taking a "actually crime is pretty cool :)" approach to the game's narrative and aesthetic, which I think is pretty cringe and gay, and is basically the opposite of what the good GTA games were about.

Celeste is one of the best platformers ever made thoughbeit.

lol

unironic you have to play my game or gameplay isn't your top priority

no demo

It's actually a you have to buy my game or gameplay isn't your top priority

turns out there was at one point a demo but it got removed

This just reeks of developers being afraid of letting the game speak for itself.

Hot take: Having good gameplay is the bare minimum. You SHOULD at the very least good gameplay, because that's what a fucking video game is.
Applauding that would be like applauding a filmmaker for knowing how to use a camera, you don't get extra credit for doing what should be standard.

You get noticed and praised by being more than that

No I won't. The gameplay will just be a completely average third person shooter and the story missions will be extremely on rails, where you get set back to a checkpoint if you try to go off script.
Rockstar games only have good presentation, thats it. So once again I will look at that shit on Youtube because I will get to see the presentation for 0$.

Keep coping while playing your 2d pixelshit troonslop

Another common miss by you. Right now I'm playing Nioh 2 and having a great fucking time. Something you could never have with GTA.

This, one of the biggest markers of a game being bad is a female protagonist who is not sexy. I'd say it means the game is like 80% chance of being bad at that point.

It turns out you can value gameplay the most, but also at the same time, see the worth in other aspects of a game.

You're not wrong. Zelda has always had shit gameplay and anything remotely more engaging than the slop it has been putting out would make audiences cream themselves, especially when you factor in the Nintendo bias. However you still have not posted any webms to prove this game's supposed quality.

I'd say it means the game is like 80% chance of being bad at that point

It is honestly at least 95%. I can't think of an ugly female protagonist game that is anything more than average let alone "good". Surely they exist but it isn't worth trying to find them

Floaty as hell. Too many cutscenes and dialogue turds. Hope that helps

gameplay is king if you want to make a fun game you can keep coming back to. any other response is retarded.

It's just breath of the wild, but with VN style cutscenes

I didn't even like breath of the wild.

Zelda has always had shit gameplay and anything remotely more engaging than the slop it has been putting out would make audiences cream themselves

When the first Zelda game came out it was easily the most smoothly playing top down action game. You ever play that piece of shit Hydlide? Even Ys, while a pretty good game still has you bump into things to attack.

No more floaty than any of the other games, you're a hypocrite, hope that helps

Pretty sure it does since unity wasn't as spread back then. I've zero interest in playing it anyway even though speedrun-type platformers are one of my favourite genres.
From what I remember my biggest issue with the game was that most of the speedboost and speed from the get didn't get conserved when jumping on-off walls and the ground so it left a really shitty taste in my mouth.