He absolutely loathes the ever living shit out of Joel and Joel supporters

IT WAS TOTALLY OUR INTENT, I'M NOT TRYING TO RETCON EVERYTHING BECAUSE I FUCKING HATE JOEL

kek, fuck off
Even if it's true, you didn't make it that way so it doesn't matter, retard

fireflies could've made a cure

I don't see why people get so fucking butthurt over this statement. This only adds to the whole dilemma propped up by Joel's actions at the end of the first game, for if they are actually incapable of making the cure then there's absolutely zero reason to ever discuss whether Joel was in the right or not.

The ends don't justify the means
Murdering a little girl to create a cure is wrong and shortsighted.
What if the cure has unintended side effects? What happened to your control group?

neils just mad the last of us 2 flopped as a game and a tv show

Why would they even need to kill her exactly?
If her 'cure' is that she's just naturally immune can't they just take a blood sample or something?

I think the issue is more about keeping it vague on whether the fireflies would've been successful.

No you see we love killing chil... I mean it has to be done this way it's the only way. Science you know.

Maybe she's got mushrooms in her brain that make her immune and have such a weird head shape

I prefer to forget that Joel was a scumbag who murdered innocents to survive

CANT WAIT FOR YOUR STUDIO TO SHUT DOWN ONCE YOUR SHITTY SPACE GAME FAILS NEIL

He doesnt sound mad at all

lmao
chuddies will be raging at this in the nursing home

I don't get why this would make anyone seethe. If you aren't willing to damn everyone else for the life of your daughter, you never loved her, sorry.

Trannys wont make it to the ripe old age that requires you to be IN a nursing home

41%

If he hated Joel he wouldn't say judging Joel's actions are an interesting philosophical question, and instead would just condemn them

There are no trannies on Anon Babble. Youre just getting mocked by normal people

He's the male version of J.K rowling
Just leave your fucking passion project alone, you're just messing up shit that was better off without an explanation

There's no coming back from that Zebra scene that's in TLOU2, Neil.
That was so poorly done and obvious that no matter what you do, I'll always say that Joel was right in killing everyone he ever killed.

The story of the second game is him condemning the character

Not really, its Ellie condemning him, and then forgiving him

False, but that on its own is bullshit too due to the fact it's perfectly clear Ellie knows at the end of the first game what Joel did

there are no trannies on Anon Babble

ummm actually I’m right here

But Niel, that's not how medicine works

WHOA BUDDY!!! Cool it with the anti-antisemitism.

Why does Niel hate that people love Joel so much? They even casted everyone's favorite effeminate latino to play him

Should have written the first game that way then, instead of portraying the Fireflies as a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

Reminder that Neil did NOT write TLOU1 and only had his name slapped on it due to nepotism.
That's why TLOU2 is garbage, because he actually wrote TLOU2 based on the rejected version of TLOU1.

Butthurt rage that he can't get his revenge theme to work and either can't admit it or will ruin the studios image in pursuit of it working. Actual mental illness type shit.

He's such a hack, he had nothing to do with the success of the first game and once he took the lead on the sequel he fucked it up so bad with his shitty subversive writing. Uncharted 4 was almost ruined by his influence too, there are multiple scenes where you get beat up by a black woman for no reason.

He literally just can't write for shit without throwing a beloved white male character under the bus. Then he doubles down on it with the show, what a complete fucking retard. Imagine how good a TLoU trilogy could have been without his grubby Jewish hands all over it.

he's right. he's a filthy heeb who ruined the series, but the "they were incompetent anyway" was always dumb goy cope. the point was ellie is a human being who has a right to her own life regardless of what others might benefit from sacrificing her. it's literally a based argument against human sacrifice but the dumb goyim still love that shit so they have to twist and contort the situation to make the obvious good guy fit with their incompatible, shitty morality.

simply explains the reasoning for a plot point

"HE HATES JOEL HE HATES JOEL FANS WHITE GENOCIDE ISRAEL ISRAEL ISRAEL"

I get it but simultaneously I feel like people who are adamant on hating the second game had their minds made up about that before the game even came out. And to me it was never really that vague to begin with, because like I've said if they're just a bunch of incompetent idiots then there's absolutely zero reason to spare them and think about the ending of the first one.
Joel might've been a piece of shit (which the game hints towards him being that in the past several times) who doomed the humanity but ultimately I think his reasoning is sound all the same, which absolutely doesn't absolve him of his sins, yet makes Abby's actions understandable. I don't even agree with the buff bitch but I can't say if I wouldn't want to do the same if I had my dad's killer at my feet. The only problem was - the player/viewer knows who Joel is and has zero knowledge about Abby, which makes the writers constantly fight the uphill battle there.

intent

Death of the author.
You had a hundred million dollars to work with, Neil, why didn't you put it in the game?
You had enough budget for an awkward and hamfisted synagogue segment in the sequel, what's the problem?

instant jump to trannies

Your poor jamaican nurses

why didn't you put it in the game?

He did, but people misunderstood the ending and wanted a sequel for some reason

BEST SCENE IN ANY VIDEO GAME EVER

What were they thinking?

Grifter. He just ruined TLOU

Not like the Fireflies guaranteed making a cure would change anything. The damage to the world is already done. Even if they could distribute the cure around the world eventually, on top of not abusing their power, it still wouldn't change much. It'd just be one less thing to worry about.
Unless Cuckmann's intent was also that the cure would fix all the problems and reverted the world back to how it was pre-infection as well.

You are retarded.

The entire plot leaked before the game came out, of course it was rejected pre-release.

remake game to "clarify the point"

change nothing except make the doctor white

What did you mean by this, Neil?

At least we have sexy Moner to balance out the ugliness. Can you imagine if he hired a second ugly girl for the show?

is that all you've got?

Turns out Joel was a selfish piece of shit

Wowee, what a shocking revelation.

The only criticism you were even ALLOWED to levy at the first game when it came out amid a torrent of bought and paid for praises labelling it once and for all as the citizen kane of gaming was that the fireflies were unrealistic and cartoonishly evil.

NEXT GUY!

The Last of Us story after first game(not remake) is so bad, everything after it can be sum up to "cis white male bad".

normal people

No you’re not. Also the mods are filled with trannies.

Hey Neil, your writing is trash and now even more people know it.

Learn to read you stupid fuck.

2 was the one that tried to retcon the fireflies to be actually able to make a cure. Literally nothing in the first game would suggest that.

have already butchered 2 dozen people, mostly, if not all, children

made literally zero progress

are going to immediately dissect ellie instead of at least trying things like blood and bone marrow

Joel WAS an asshole, and him saving ellie was his redemption. But the sequel wants you to think "but if they could just butcher a 25th kid, it would have had a 100% chance of success!"

Joel, we're going try to make the cure by killing Ellie

Neil: "WHY ARE PEOPLE ROOTING FOR JOEL? ARE THEY STOOPID!? HE KILLED SO MANY PEOPLE!! YOU WERE SUPPOSE TO LET THEM KILL YOUR DAUGHTER!"

I wish that nigger never writes a story again but it's too bad snoys are all massive dickriders that worships this type of slop

Didn’t the remaster of the first game remove a journal of one of the fireflies talking about the low success rate of the procedure?

nice lack of an argument, faggot.

joel is the good or bad guy based on the fireflies' pharmaceutical competence, not based on the nature of man and who is entitled to his life

dumb utilitarian nigger

i played the remaster semi-recently and that journal entry was completely missing

In fairness, having a cure would make rebuilding drastically easier. You could pretty easily reclaim infected areas at that point. Between that and the infection not destroying infrastructure or technology beyond spreading mold and a lack of maintenance, you could reclaim civilization, albeit with a drastically reduced population.

Having said that, they should have already begun to rebuild. The cordyceps feeds on its hosts so there is literally no damn reason there's still infected all over the place and clearing out a deadly mold infestation and clearing out a deadly mold infestation while dealing with zombie hordes are not remotely comparable challenges.

Honestly I'm kinda sick of after the fall of humanity style zombie stories getting away with that shit. If you're gonna say the world's still flooded with zombies years after the collapse of humanity, at least have the balls to make the zombies magic.

But the sequel wants you to think "but if they could just butcher a 25th kid, it would have had a 100% chance of success!"

They never implied it was a sure thing, but the whole ending of the first game falls flat on it's face if you can just say

oh yeah no there wasn't any big dramatic conflict between what joel wanted and what ellie wanted for the good of humanity and themselves, the fireflies were just big dingbats who wanted to chop her up for the lulz so joel did an unambiguously good thing

It's like people are fucking allergic to the slightest bit of nuance

Ummmm akshually she's not his daughter. Also condemning humanity for a girl you've only known for like a year is crazy

He absolutely did not intend that. What a disgusting, petty little man.

The PS4 release sanitized the hospital chapter somewhat, the remaster went all the way.

NEXT GUY

Also condemning humanity for a girl you've only known for like a year is crazy

I dunno, refusing to let someone too stupid to take non-fatal samples dissect another living person for an experiment with a completely unknown chance of success seems reasonable.

Also, if the Fireflies were as smart as they thought they were, they'd have just executed Joel at the first opportunity after deciding to dissect Ellie.

Honestly you would have to be completely braindead to go along with them unless you were somehow aware the creator of the setting has decided their shit would work, and even then you'd have to be a complete bastard.

our intent

well he did a shit job communicating his intent then
or he's lying which is probably what's really happening here
either way he's a hack and a faggot

retcon a game you took credit for by writing a sequel

and then rewrite the retconned game with a remaster to further drive the point

make an entire tv show on this

people still don’t like it

Is this the correct timeline here?

I don't see why people get so fucking butthurt over this statement

1) Fireflies are literally saying that the operation is not 100% guaranteed to succeed THEMSELVES
2) Even if they can get a cure, they won't be able to manufacture it and distribute it on such a scale
3) The cure will obviously fall in the hands of some group that will gatekeep it (there is no way they would give it to the seraphites for example)
Acting like the fireflies would save the world is completely retarded, they were literally wiped from the face of the earth by a single man.

TRUST THE SCIENCE

you can't make this shit up
Btw Druckmann is a pro Israel israeli

ending left intentionally ambigious so players can draw their own conclusions

give a definitive answer cause you're a seething hack ass fuck mad that people don't like your shitty sequel

You just know TLOU's success had nothing to do with Niel Cuckmann.

Obviously the fireflies would give the cure to the Gods chosen people, who would then cure the entire world (for a price).

THEMSELVES

When? Also, Joel doesn't know any of this shit. He's operating under his own rationale.

remake head writer:Neil Druckman

Of course that fuck removed that journal, it completely invalidates his plot for 2 as it showed that the fireflies had no clue what they were doing.

Same, not like I play these shit games for idiots either way though

It's like people are fucking allergic to the slightest bit of nuance

Yes, because your worldbuilding contradicting your intended story is so much nuance

This is my primary concern with everything to do with TLOU 2. I thought the ending of 1 was so strong because of how ambiguous it was. 2 having a definitive answer to "Was Joel right in any way?" is completely contrary to what 1 was doing.

it was very clearly, obviously the original intent. that's what makes it a dilemma. joel isnt BAD its a gray area thats why its interesting. i forgot everyone has the brain of a toddler now

Joel probably doesn't even like humanity anymore after all the shit he saw, why sacrifice Ellie to save them?

maybe if we butcher up niel druckmann, we could finally find the cure to all diseases! Sure, it's the 25th person we randomly selected to butcher, but he might just be the one!!!!!!!!!

Stop being retarded.

He literally said as a person he agrees with Joel's choice. He just thinks as the writer making the cure impossible would dumb down ruin the weight and complexity of his character and choice.

More or less. I mean the fact that he even has to go to such lengths just to do this shit shows he knows he fucked up. Now he’s just going to be seething about how no one understands his “vision” when in reality no one is confused he’s just a shit writer.

N___ G___!

it was very clearly, obviously the original intent.

ignores University tapes with his baby toddler brain

I think it is better written if a cure is considered very likely. The problem is that they failed to communicate that at all in the first game. Even if they did intend it at the time, it comes off as a retcon. They should at the very least admit some fault that they should have communicated it better, and people may be more open to it as a result. It is a lot more interesting if a cure is truly very likely.

He said that after years of this shit. You can’t get anymore fucking post hoc than that. He knew people would hate the ending again but he needed to have a cushion so the normalfaggots didn’t think he was a psycho.

Yes, people insisting there was some hidden narrative or logic that no cure was possible totally undermine the meaning of the choice that Joel makes. They are coping. That includes Synthetic-Man.

HE HATES JOEL

Joelfags are just upset that the game doesn't pat you on the ass and assure the players your emotional decision to save your cunnyfu was also the logically correct one as well. Because as you can see in this thread, suddenly people get upset when they realize he really did doom humanity to save one girl and now they're mad that they made Joel a "bad guy".

could've

"…would've"

Faggots both of them.

why are americans so taken by author statements that blatantly contradict the source material?

I feel like this has to do with the general level of corporate bootlickery and billionaire idolatry in american culture.

demake

Of course they could. That was the whole point?!

whether the cure is likely or not it doesn't matter, only midwits focus on that

Garbage Children of Men rip off.

Amy Hennig and Bruce Straley being pushed out by Neil Druckmann really sealed the deal with Naughty Dog

Whether or not the Fireflies would have developed a cure, Joel was obviously in the right, so how are so many people convinced that confirming the Fireflies would have developed a cure is somehow shitting on Joel?

It's like you psychopaths think Joel would have been wrong if that were the case.

There are no trannies on Anon Babble.

False

Youre just getting mocked by normal people

True. TLOU is a mainstream game and people don’t like to see 1 out of the 2 main characters from the last game die to a roided out bitch

Wouldn't the fireflies just become a bunch of tyrannical homos and force the vaccine?

misinterpreting the tapes

He hates White Men.

Based

It's not an issue of whether Joel was right, it's an issue of the writing sucking.
Fireflys, even half-realistically, couldn't make an actual cure for cordyceps. It's a neural fungus with a fast growth rate.
Not only that, but they were doing it out of a dingy hospital.
Not only that, but they were shown to be terrorists fighting against da oppression when humanity is literally on the brink of extinction.
Not only that, but the procedure was being done by an incompetent doctor that insisted the first thing they should do is fucking kill their only hope.
Not only that, but there existed a very real possibility that humanity might just have to adapt immunity to it and the Fireflies are an active detriment to that.
So what do we get from that?
We get Kikeman rewriting to show the hospital being so much cleaner and the doctors more competent.
We get Kikeman telling us that they totally could have done it when all the existing signs point to the opposite.
We get Kikeman rewriting Fireflies as objectively good guys.
We get Kikeman writing the infamously cautious Joel Miller (who uses fake names when he doesn't know people) to tell everyone his name is Joel Miller AFTER he has a very good reason to keep his name hidden.
We get Kikeman writing the literal future of humanity into a dyke taking care of someone else's baby rather than having any of her own.
If it was more interesting, it should have been there from the start, but it wasn't and they keep trying to tell people it was. That's the issue here.

anti vaxxers would rather become zombies than take the shot

Was TloU2 coof preprogramming?

"it's literally over, we spent years, nothing works"

"oh fuck is that infected monkey just bit me... I've got to go"

2 years later, actually totally got the cure, one brain away actually.

All knowledge of how to do it comes from one guy who didn't share it without ever

Totally misinterpreting, and university tapes totally don't state they had zero progress or even an idea of what they were doing.

Idk why any of you are upset over this obvious conclusion. It's literally just the trolley problem, it's the same shit that Life is Strange did.

Ummm but what if the trolley breaks down before it hits anyone?

That's not the intent of the question and it's not what they were going for.

Are you implying trans folx aren't normal people?

The whole story is pointless because the girl turns out to be a barren lesbian, a life denier without a future. So essentially Joel's motivation is not some kind of heroic attempt to save civilization but sheer boomer selfishness so have some kind of replacement daughter and after that the deluge. So he's a villain and so is the girl. The hero is the tranny that kills this old faggot.

They would be absolutely fucking decimated by the government forces the moment they hear they have a working vax.

Anon that point isn't whether the cure was possible or not. The point is we as players shouldn't know because Joel didn't know. Recontextualizing his actions after the fact just diminishes it's weight.

He is the embodiment and antithesis of what jewish people hate. He is White and Masculine, so it's no surprise he wanted to kill him in the most humiliating and prophetic way, that of a tranny representing modernity killing the White Man a.k.a. the Traditional Order of Nature.

Remember that communists are not human and deserve a .45 in their head. Long live America and the Europeans that built it.

Your the crazie o/ne, Eric

Nah, the real heroes are the anons who didn't buy/play/watch any of this kikefaggot shit

The point is we as players shouldn't know because Joel didn't know

Pretty much. For all the fucking talk about media literacy from these niggers, they are content with simply handwave from whose POV the story is told and mentally portray a scene where Joel was given a vax vial that he smacked away and grunted, "muh cunny daughter." This is a complex moral choice in their mind. The Black Queen told him it works what is there to think about?

Daddy issues anongst young men is at an all time high.

A fictional character shouldn't be making you seethe this much.

He's trying to validate the sequel by making a "what if" into a certainty and trying to justify Abby and friends actions.

Sony is evil and nintendo is my personal friend, Eric. Nothing will ever change that.

Joel doesn't know any of this shit.

He has instincts, that's a key feature of his character. His instincts kept him alive as a smuggler in a post-apocalyptic world. He knew that guy in the first game was faking his injury to hold them up.
He was probably able to surmise, "I have my doubts that this organization that was unable to provide me with any logistical support while transporting the savior of humanity to their base of operations has the capability to invent a miracle drug, manufacture it at scale, and distribute it across a planet that has had all of its transportation networks destroyed."
You don't need inside information or exceptional intuition to figure that out.

Cringe

He didn't learn anything from The Last of Us Part II and how much shit he got for it.

Never change Druckmann, never change.

Isn't that enough? Never mind the fact that Neil agrees with Joel's decision, or that all of Joel's portrayals in the second game are respectful, all you little bitches can do is pretend that's not the case then get outraged at your own delusions

For real. I was ok with Joel dying since I didn't even like him that much in Tlou. Don't know why so many people loved him

I don't think joel cares about curing fedra cannibals and hunters.
Maybe if he spent more time in tommys place which funnily got ambushed he wouldn't have did all of this.

Based

Acting like the fireflies would save the world is completely retarded, they were literally wiped from the face of the earth by a single man.

I never thought about it that way. It's even more hilarious now.

Gamers are mad because they took our daughterwife from us.

the fuck you're talking about, schizo?

or that all of Joel's portrayals in the second game are respectful

What I never hear anyone bring up is: What the fuck is the point of the cure?

99% of world population is already dead

Cure isn't gonna turn a clicker/someone who's already mutated into a mushroom monster back into a person, they're already dead

Everyone already living in a safe settlement like Tommy's is not infected, they have no mushrooms spready spores near them, they dont need a cure

In the event that people like Joel and Tommy leave the settlement to go scout, they have gas masks, they have experience and wisdom to avoid the spores, they can use fire to burn down areas with spores to kill them off and/or mark them off as dangerous - the cure would only be useful to one of these few specific individuals that leave the settlement IF they fuck up and get infected, IF they get back to town and aren't too far gone - Is a CHANCE at that worth Ellie dying?

Like radiation poisoning? People going down into shit like getting exposed to broken down nuclear reactors and dying from the radiation - would a cure for that be worth the death of a child? It seems incredibly niche and overvalued

Never mind the fact that Neil agrees with Joel's decision

Post proof. If that's the case why has Druckman been trying to undermine Joel's character for the past 10 years. Does he just hate white men that much?

that all of Joel's portrayals in the second game are respectful

lmao he gets beaten to death with a golfclub by a tranny
is that respectful?

Don't care. Stupid game, shitty writing.

the museum was my favorite part of the game. in fact, it’s among the best locations of any vidya.

It wasn't that the science was a "little shaky", it was the fact that the Fireflys were portrayed as actual fucking retards and dishonest scammers (Joel was never paid, Ellie was never informed of the procedure). Of course people aren't going to believe that they're capable of doing anything.
Of course a fucking Jew would fail to understand why people would have strong opinions in regards to Medical Consent and not ripping people off.

Even if they take away the ambiguity, a massive part of TLoU is that humanity has fallen so far that a cure isn't going to solve anything.
The Government is portrayed tyrants that hunt and kill dissidents on sight.
99.9% of people encountered outside of these government camps are shown to be comically evil murderous, rapist cannibals.

There is nothing left to save, it's over.

All of this is relevant because what the fuck is the cure even supposed to do? It'd only be useful immediately after infection as the fungus mutilates the host as part of the parasitic take over. Unless he's going to say that the Magic Science Juice™ is going to undo all of the near fatal organ and nerve damage that occurred during infection. As always, Science might as well be magic to these retards that refuse to understand it. This whole thing has become a genuine case of "Death of The Author", something I haven't seen since Bioshock Infinite.

"that makes the most interesting philosophical question" means "thats how you know Joel is bad and deserves to be killed, stop liking Joel"

Never mind the fact that Neil agrees with Joel's decision

He is a father, you idiot. With a daughter no less. Do you expect him to imply he'd totally let a fictional daughter he wrote be vivisected for a vax?

Haha, daughter, don't worry, it's just in Minecraft.

You guys are looking at this whole thing all wrong. Clearly Drucky self inserts as Joel and has a sick sexual fetish for being beaten with a golf club. His stepdad sodomized him with a 9-iron throughout his childhood and he has been chasing that high ever since.

There were some anti-vaxxers who were even dumber than the usual ones and they licked everything in protest (door handles of closed restaurants etc.) Getting a lot of heinous diseases. So yeah.

The problem is that I felt like this back in 2013 on my first playthrough. It's extra funny when you're not from the US. "The world" was never in question, how the fuck are you getting that cure to Australia even if we pretend it makes sense? It's too much of a suspension of disbelief to an overall grounded story. A magic cure that will survive any political barganing, factions raiding them, will be carried throughout the globe no problem, they will 100% manage to develop and produce it from a single test subject, the world that is completely broken and fucked even if no new infected are born and is not realistically going back to normal ever again...
It just makes no sense. And even then you still run at the problem with the way they treated Joel and Ellie. If they asked them Ellie would 100% be all for it, but they didn't even do that.
The imapctful part of the ending was "did she believe him? did she decide to embrace the lie? is a relationship built on a lie fated to break?" and stuff like that. "Was Joel in the right?" is irrelevant because the game isn't even asking, it's not a choice-based game, it's Joel's story, and it was a very interesting story. But if you need me to accept that the fireflies would be successful to build up on that, then I'm sorry, I'm not on board, they're pants on head retarded and have always been. There was no need for Joel to kill the doctor either, he could just knock him out, but you're forced to. It's his decision, and the consequences of it are much more interesting to explore than whether or not he was in the right.
The sequel actually does a good job of acknowledging this with his "I'd do it all over again" speech.

There is nothing left to save, it's over.

Wow dude, are they are like some kind of The Last of Us™?

It's a way out of authorative rule of fedra. Aka boston and other places

Non combatants don't need to be held over the fear that being outside is much dangerous than life under fedra

The cure wouldn't stop a bunch of zombies ripping you to pieces, so it's still not safe out there.

Keeping it vague means there is a not-zero chance that Joel's decision, while at a surface level seeming destructively selfish, could be justifiable. Actually having to sit down and think, and not know for sure if Joel made the right decision or not, is way more interesting than "Nope the Fireflies would have 100% saved the world, Joel bad".

Cure what? Autism isn't a disease.

next guy

The retard who wrote Chernobyl added some even dumber things in the TV show.
He showed how ellie got her immunity and that Marlene knows how ellie got it. Making Ellie not the only source for the cure, because Marlene could just create new immune people.
Druckmann loved how Mazin ripped off blade (he doesn't know that Mazin did that) and thought it was an amazing addition to the story (it wasn't)

Post proof

insider-gaming.com/was-joel-right-to-save-ellie-druckmann-answer-last-of-us/

It's also somewhere inside 2's commentary, I heard it at least once but cba looking for a specific timestamp since I'm going to bed

If that's the case why has Druckman been trying to undermine Joel's character for the past 10 years

lmao he gets beaten to death with a golfclub by a tranny

Does he just hate white men that much?

He hasn't, she isn't and he doesn't.

See, this is what I mean by getting outraged by your own delusions. I can talk about this all day but it has to be 12 hours from now

always a good sign when you need to explain it. write better faggot

Last hope for mankind

Makes her gay

God damn what did Cuckman mean by this?

nice fence sitting there bro he chose to go full balls to the walls and he should fuck own up to it.

The audio files in tlou1 said that they couldn't make a cure, Bruce made everything good about tlou, Druckmann made everything bad about it.
Ellie was never gay. Bruce left. Neil made her gay later. Sony lost. Nintendo won.

part 3 mutated gay credits roll

The problem no one cares about a ambiguous decision.
You just want to head cannon that the cure would never happen and druckmann writing these circumstances in part 2 is extremely retarded.

Everyone wants a sequel for every good video game except for TLOU for some reason.

It's still not the plot of children of men, no matter for how many years you schizos keep screeching about it.

You need more? He got what he deserved.

We get Kikeors more competent.

Weman rewriting to show the hospital being so much cleaner and the doct don't know how competent they are in the first game.

We get Kikeman rewriting Fireflies as objectively good guys.

TLOU2 presents you with another pov and only gives you a glimpse into it. At no point they are presented as objectively good guys. Marlene wrestling with her thoughts was a thing in the first game as well.

We get Kikeman writing the infamously cautious Joel Miller (who uses fake names when he doesn't know people) to tell everyone his name is Joel Miller AFTER he has a very good reason to keep his name hidden.

Tommy mentions both of their names to Abby. The rest is irrelevant.

We get Kikeman writing the literal future of humanity into a dyke taking care of someone else's baby rather than having any of her own

So now she's the future of humanity. Crazy how people set these arbitrary rules by which the immunity/cure can be gained. "The fireflies woulda totally fucked it all up and actually it's not even how this cure thing is manufactured, it would never work. I KNOW THIS. Oh and she can just get laid and get pregnant and give birth and the newborn will inherit the trait and be just as immune as Ellie is with a 100% success rate. I ALSO KNOW THIS." Yeah okay.

I haven’t consumed any last of us directly but I don’t think she was “immune”
I think the fungus just mutated in her to be inert so she was more occupied
Like isn’t there a point where she bites some dude and he starts to turn? So her mutation wasn’t even transferable

There was no chance for a cure at all

I do. I care about an ambiguous decision. "What-ifs" are a powerful and believable driving force for a character.

This is pretty common among hacks, the author doesn't like to lose control of his own narrative, answers the main question of the story and then, he writes another story to tell the dissident side how wrong they are.

MODS

Everyone wants a sequel for every good video game except for TLOU for some reason

Neil himself didn't want a sequel for tlou. At least not about ellie and Joel

"I think the world is ripe for more stories, but as far as the journey Joel and Ellie goes on it ends with this game. We were very conscious that we didn’t want to leave this story dangling. If we never do a sequel we’re okay with it, because we told the story we needed to tell. "
He was correct

He absolutely loathes the ever living shit out of Joel and Joel supporters.

Therefore you know exactly how Heretic is going to play out.

We were very conscious that we didn’t want to leave this story dangling.

Then why is the TLOU2 ending so open??

thing that was at best ambiguous is now given an clear answer which defies all logic and believability for the story

More like you faggots still think that a handful of incompetent retards in a rundown hospital who immediately go to kill the only immune person they have found can somehow develop a cure.

Idk bro I never played the second game because I thought the first one was overrated. I just like shitposting about it.

Neil's talking about tlou1 here. He completely changed his mind about 1 needing a sequel or not for Ellie and Joel's story

The audio files in tlou1 said that they couldn't make a cure

You are

genuinely
retarded

if you think flaunting your lack of reading comprehension is a good way to make your point. I played the original on the PS3, there isn't a single document that supports your claim (which you didn't even link in the first place because you argue the way a literal caveman would)

Ellie was never gay etc.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.

I'm done, be sure to seethe some more in the next thread

Like isn’t there a point where she bites some dude and he starts to turn? So her mutation wasn’t even transferable

Actually she bites the guy and just says he is infected to spite him, he gets shot though so we never see if that is true or not. If she could infect people i am quite certain her sexual partners would have turned though.

I absolutely do NOT want a Bloodborne sequel and I'm glad that Sony are greedy jews that would never greenlight a sequel to something that didn't sell 20 billion copies, because there's nowhere else for it to go. Especially now that From makes open world slop. There are many stories that never needed a sequel. From's best games are all the spiritual sequels instead of the direct ones. The change from Demon's Souls to Dark Souls and Bloodborne was much more exciting than from Dark Souls to 2 and 3.
I don't need another Metaphor ReFantazio either. The world building a big part of the game and more interesting than the political squabble. If you make a sequel where the world building is a solved problem, you're only left with the weak parts of the writing.
There are several games that don't need a sequel.

At this point in my life, I think im fucking done with after the fact information and retcons. If its not in the original media, fuck off. I'm not reading your half-assed tweets or sequel comics with a prequel flashback.

I'd play that mod

I'm done

sure you are faggot

We get Kikeman rewriting to show the hospital being so much cleaner and the doctors more competent.

We don't know how competent the doctors really are in the first game. The idea is that they're competent just enough to perform the surgery.*
I dunno why the message got all fucked up

The Zelda games all being linked story wise is extremely based, Eric. Your the crazie o/ne.

Cuckmann began to hate Joel after the game was released because the reception from fans reminded him of his own father who used to beat him as a teenager because he acted out of line and didn't respect the man who brought him into the world and helped put the food he survived from on the table. This is why Cuckmann had Joel killed and made a fool of, he was absolutely mind broken by how people preferred Joel and his protective nature over Ellie. In his head he thought everyone would hate Joel and love Ellie but it was the other way around, so as a "fuck you" to his dad and the fans that liked Joel he had his head split open with a golf club by another female that looked like a man

At this point this schizophrenic denial of Last of Us having first and second acts being one to one taken from Children of Men is pitiful. Even fucking Neil owns it for all his autism. Has this something to do with insecurity about games not being able to write a good story unless they rip and strip parts of them, bit by bit from other sources? Silent Hill 2 is Lost Highway. RDR 1 is The Wild Bunch and Last of Us is Children of Men there is nothing shameful about this.

The surgeon is also the best chemist and is also the only man alive to make a cure. Somehow. (according to TLOU2)

Why is it that TLOU always type like histrionic retards? Like what the fuck is this spacing? What is the point? What kind of speech is this trying to simulate? Is it to make anyone who reads it get a headache?

So did neil make all of tlou singlehandedly or not? You retards need to pick a lane. Where does Bruce come into this at any point or does he just do everything else when it's convenient?

They're really pants on head retarded for killing the only immune girl right away, I don't think this can be argued.
They should keep her in a cage and breed her while doing all sorts of tests with her blood if they actually wanted to develop a cure.
The reason the game doesn't go that far is because nobody would think this is more justifiable than Joel's actions, I guess. So, in other words, the moral ambiguity is unearned. The only thing that matters is that Joel destroyed Ellie's hope and lied to her about it. The fireflies are retarded bitches and shouldn't even factor into what makes the ending great.

regardless of whether he should have said this shit (he shouldn't) it's still his story he wrote and he can do whatever he wants with it. he can also say Joel canonically has a microdick and eats literal shit off-screen. who cares. lots of authors have weird views of their own work that most people don't agree with

Wasn’t he a veterinarian

Pic unrelated, right?
Do you read your own screenshots? He liked a movie once, great. Nothing you posted disproved anything that the other guy said.

He wrote it and then had it edited after the others at ND saw it was a bunch of overly edgy suffer porn. And he was so mad about that that he kicked them all out and made the sequel into what he wanted the first game to be.

That doesn't make for an interesting philosophical question that just means Joel was 100% wrong and evil

but it was never ambigous. That's something that fans of the game made up or were brainwashed to believe by some youtube grifter. There's nothing in the game supporting it. If you look at the game alone it's obvious the cure would work

it's still his story he wrote and he can do whatever he wants with it

He can say whatever he wants, but he can't change the game that he already released.

Retcons are for pussies. Han shot first too, btw.

I thought the whole point was that they possibly could make it but they might also fail.
That is where the entire moral dilemma stems from.

Lol dude I purposefully got the science behind making the fucking vaccine wrong so people could argue about it and totally not because I having no idea what I'm talking about. I'm a genius in my writing that is a layman's normie version of the road with zombies in it!

You're such a fucking hack Niel. Next man!

So why didn't Joel die at the end of TLoU1 and why did Ellie save the world? Did you even watch Children of Men, what?

it's the same story because there is a guy and girl

Well done, retard

firefly didn't want to pay Joel. they held him at gunpoint, prevented him from taking his equipment, and even wanted to kill him while he was unconscious. he had every reason to just go berserk and kill everyone

You shouldn’t try to reason with this retard. He has been spamming these threads for years and has been going especially apeshit as of late due to normalfag not liking the show and those vindicating half of what everyone has been saying to him.

sure it was
Neil might actually be a full-blown retard push-over.
i never hated the guy, but i think i can start to now.
the bright side of all this is, we only had to wait 10 years rather than 50 for the creator to turn on his creation. star wars

George Lucas Backs Disney and Bob Iger in Proxy Fight: “Creating Magic Is Not for Amateurs”

hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/george-lucas-backs-disney-bob-iger-proxy-fight-1235855459/

yeah exactly. his feelings on character motivations don't really change the actual story that was released. It's kinda like when the Wachowskis made the matrix an obvious Jesus allegory and then decades later after trooning out, started insisting that it was always a trans analogy.
It really doesn't matter what they say, even if they wrote it. the story is what it is

Intent? Really? Nothing in the game hinted at them being capable of finding a cure. The Fireflies were shown to be a bunch of useless retards who made things worse wherever they "succeeded" (lmao Pittsburgh) and there is no reason to think they could have gotten anything out of butchering Ellie. Unless some magical mushroom juice could be squeezed from her brain, but I don't remember anything hinting at that.

I seriously don't understand why he had to make this reveal. People are always going to care more about the relationship between Joel and Ellie because the game failed at making the Fireflies sympathetic and deserving of trust, no tweet is going to change that. Is he seriously still mad about the reaction to TLoU's "twist"?

have already butchered 2 dozen people, mostly, if not all, children

again, your strongest argument is something that DOESN'T EXIST in the game lmao

mind you, it probably was his wife Mellody Hobson because she sits on a bank's board of directors whose CEO is backing Iger but she was Lucas's choice

the idea of cure is stupid should’ve gone with vaccine

If you look at the game alone it's obvious the cure would work

You have never been able to argue this retard. Stop repeating the same copes. You’re just going to end up going full retard and having a shit fit

it's the road, because there's an adult with a kid in the apocalypse

So Joel died at the end of TLoU1 just like the Road, right?
Boy, you 'TLoU1 is totally like The Road/Children of Men' - retards
should either kill yourselves or watch those movies for once instead of saying those stories are totally the same.

They absolutely couldn't have made it, couldn't have delivered it to people, they're almost entirely killed off in 1 from picking fights with the government, and it's not more interesting if we know. It's like he has no fucking clue why that first game worked.

Anti-vaxxers

Just say Americans.

Intent? Really? Nothing in the game hinted at them being capable of finding a cure. The Fireflies were shown to be a bunch of useless retards who made things worse wherever

he's just proving more and more he wasn't the actual creator of the the last of us's franchise

Are you illiterate?

I have the ps3 version. Your schizo hallucination doesn't exist.

why that first game worked

Because man/girl relationships are kino and everyone enjoys it

Are you braindead retarded? Children of Men is still not the same story as tlou.

Erm Joel didn't die in the first game like the dad in the the road, so it's actually nothing like the road.

If that's all it constitutes for you to completely dismiss the comparison, then you truly are a retard. Go fuck yourself Niel you faggot.

anon doesn't understand themes and thinks stories need to be literal plagiarism to be considered similar

He is the sole creator. SeeHe watched children of men once and then made the last of us just like it.

Is Joel /ourguy/ now?

Dude the Firefags could have made a cure and saved da world

They're so fucking incompetent and weak dog tags of their members that got killed by everyone and everything are collectibles

They're operating out of a filthy, grungy, abandoned hospital

They're first reaction to Joel succeeding in his extremely dangerous and difficult mission is to keep Ellie under to murder her easier, not pay the man what he was promised, take all his shit, tell him to fuck off and march him out at gunpoint

But they totally would have made a magic cure and flew on rainbow unicorns to drop it down to grateful humanity below like they are fucking Santa Claus because dude trust me

Maybe Neil is just a shit writer

niel

can't even spell anymore

You're mad as hell, lmao, keep seething

People are always going to care more about the relationship between Joel and Ellie

This is about the relationship between Joel and Ellie tho? The whole point is he stopped the cure and lied to her about it because he knows deep down she wouldn't want him to do that. There's no point in the lie if they were just objectively wrong.

I keep forgetting this place is 90% pajeets.

it's somewhat similar therefore retards like myself can dismiss it because we're retarded

The road isn't a particularly original story either, you obviously don't know that. Good for you.

Yeah, and Dumbledore was gay

the point is that he was willing to stop a cure for her, whether it would have worked or not is irrelevant after that point. the only people who care are autists who need to feel that a character is always righteously justified in every action they take

why did neil and bruce put the surgeons recording in the game? Why did neil and bruce have Marlene saying literally

once they remove it they will be able to reverse engineer a vaccine

to make you think fireflies would never make it?

You're certainly one of them.

Can't have an actual father model raise a good female model, so he ruined Joel and Ellie. Any male positive trait from Joel has been systematically destroyed. But at the same time he made Ellie a negative female model. If this is not wokeness I don't know what is.

NEXT GOY!

his (initial) idea

not execution
he wanted to put so much retarded shit in tlou1 which he was only able to do with tlou2 once the other directors were gone. hennig and straley

The thing is, it's not just about the cure. If you need Ellie to make it, and you kill Ellie in the making of it, then that means you need more Ellies to kill, to recreate it. There aren't any. Even then, recreating enough to distribute among anyone but the fireflies, is counter-intuitive to the goals of the fireflies. If the fireflies were benevolent, with their access to technology, expertise, facilities, and provisions, they would already be doing so, to all the other factions around them.

Cure aside, which is a boon no doubt, the Clickers are still a major issue, because even if you can no longer get infected, the Clickers can't turn back into humans, and they are still a major, numerous threat. They will kill you, and you will still need provisions and ammunition to survive against them. In the end, it is a choice that benefits the fireflies, and them alone. So fuck them, I say wipe them all out.

they are fucking sociopaths with more kills than Ed Kemper. if you faggots thought they were ever good role models then I can see why this conversation has continued to be retarded for over a decade

This game always spawns the best autism fueled debates. Actual years worth of retards fighting and bitching at each other like women about this bland hack writer moviegame sloppa. Lmfao

You're dumb. I think you're also a shill running damage control.

no u

Oh man, you sure got me there. Shucks, I guess you really aren't a retarded shitposter that can't fucking read a simple sentence that literally says "We took a lot of inspiration from CoM". Go back to shitting on the street.

No because it never fucking existed in the first place. There's literally collectable videos from the PS3 era, nothing was added or removed on PS4 or 5.

Spbp

And you need to stop moving the goalpost. I don't know who the fuck Bruce is. The game has clearly taken its foundation from the film, though. I see you fellas are very insecure about videogame having almost nothing original in story department but this is psychotic.

Pic unrelated, right?

Nuh uh

Very convincing.

He liked a movie once, great.

And then they wrote a game that bit by bit repeats the movie.
The same totalitarian shithole surveillance state except it's an infertility plague. Teo and Joel's arcs are virtually the same thing, down to a child they lost in the beginning along with losing their compassion for humanity in the process, which they gradually reclaim after being set on an escort mission with the only immune person, which was set up by a terror organization whose name starts with "F," who later betrays the main character.

Just a single fucking peep. Nothing was taken.

So why didn't Joel die at the end of TLoU1 and why did Ellie save the world?

Are you just too angry to read about "the first and second act"?
RDR1 also doesn't end in the same manner as Wild Bunch. Thornton doesn't get gunned down. However, all the events are clearly taken from the movie. Nobody throws "plagiarism" around either here.

Hennig never touched TLoU I don't know why people assume this shit. she left early in Uncharted 3 development and even that game got changed from her original script. TLoU is Straley and Druck

u-u a-are I-indian

No, but you surely got me there. Stay mad.

Does the show have the buttsex scene?

there's literally no other way to interpret the ending other than Joel choosing Ellie over the world. The vaccine thing is simplistic and medically inaccurate yes, but it's a fictional cure and if you can't understand you might legitimately have autism (the bad one)

Even if the Fireflies successfully made a cure, they'd have no way to mass produce or distribute it. Every QZ is militarized and hostile to outsiders. There's no way any of them would let some outsiders in to inject them with some science juice.

Was our science a little shaky and now people are questioning it?

Why did he changed the topic all of sudden?

no u, again

Try to make up your own insults, faggot.

NEXT GUY!

It's an amalgamation of mass hysteria surrounding the last of us and Sony. They hallucinated audio collectibles. Started focusing their delusions on Cuckmann. First Amy was their savior now it's Bruce. They're extremely mentally ill.

fireflies are shown to be utterly incompetent

are operating with only handful of people out of a dirty ass hospital

decide to not run any tests on Ellie and immediately go to kill her

surgeon is a veterinarian

Marlene only tries to convince Joel that Ellie is better off dying there and not else where

You need to get your head checked. Repetition of the same action while expecting a different outcome is a sign of psychosis.

why did neil and bruce put the surgeons recording in the game

You mean the one Neil removed from the remake?

once they remove it they will be able to reverse engineer a vaccine

Why did she not repeat this in the parking garage? Why did she only bring up Ellie dying?

Post apocalyptic society

Most major infrastructure has collapsed

Still able to conduct complex medical practices without a clean room.

Ok

Hennig never touched TLoU I don't know why people assume this shit

chuds went schizo about druckmann. Most of the information you see about him in chud places is literally made up with no source

it’s a serious story that you should take seriously

they can’t make a vaccine it’s not believable

it’s fiction stop taking it so seriously

Why is it that you keep trying to have your cake and eat it too?

>He hates White Men.

Based

Your recording never existed. You are literally insane.

Can you not follow the conversation? You said that he's a pajeet out of nowhere. Do you have tourette's or something?
It's not a really strong argument to call others pajeets. But you apparently think it's genius to behave like that. Keep going with your meltdown, schizo.

"Where's your heckin' sourcerino, chud!"

Why are leftoids like this?

Joel experience human happiness in the hell world after apocalypse. He decided that humanity can bloom even in world with shroom zombies, and at the start of TLOU2 we saw that he was right. People don't NEED cure to move forward

They did all of that to people that were worse sociopaths you're the one forgetting that they were against cannibals that chased them for months even. Come on now.

your dad is gay trust me bro

You should not lie about shit that can be easily looked up. I’m not even the one that was talking about the recording. You were.
thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Surgeon's_recorder

The Fireflies don't have the infrastructure or the goodwill to mass produce and distribute a cure

it was intentionally written imbecilically with borderline magic thinking for simplicity sake so that 10 years later, creators would have to substantiate and outright delineate supposedly simple plot line to actually convey what they meant

Neat tech. Are there any media literally classes that teach this or do I have to be a hack from the get go?

he wanted to put so much retarded shit in tlou1 which he was only able to do with tlou2 once the other directors were gone. hennig and straley

This never happened by the way, don't bother asking schizos like him to back up his claims

If you want me to believe characters or factions are actually capable of doing something in your story, particularly something altruistic and critical to ending conflict/resolution, don't depict them as hilariously incompetent and straight up malicious throughout the entire story, you stupid dipshit.

Why do you need a cure for something that only gets you if you get bitten anyway?

You're going to have the same problem with a vaccine, so vaccine or not you still need to eradicate the world of zombies, and sure it'll be a faster process if not everyone that gets bitten turns, but not drastically faster.

You need to get your head checked. Repetition of the same action while expecting a different outcome is a sign of psychosis.

what do you mean? What repetition?

You mean the one Neil removed from the remake?

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA chuds are literal fucking schizos

Why did she not repeat this in the parking garage? Why did she only bring up Ellie dying?

huh?

They don’t even have enough people to make it period. Literally all that was left was everyone in that hospital.

everyone is at fault but them!

autism. do you do this with GTA protags also?
the story literally opens with Joel and Tess murdering a bunch of guys as debt collectors for the fireflies. just stop with this stupid shit. either engage with the actual topic or not at all.

And does that recorder state they can't make a cure you tremendous retarded faggot? No. It says:

we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.

Implying it's going to fucking work

cordyceps jumping to humans in 2003 is million times more implausible than making a vaccine for it when you already have an immune person. In comparison the vaccine is literally nothing

Why do leftoids want proof you're not a lying retard? Who knows....

This is mental illness, where am I removing their "blame" in my message? Where you, as a player, actively hunting people and robbing them of their resources during the campaign? The game actually shows that once you leave moderately regulated civilization there's no law out there. Once you leave the buddy living on his own city literally every single human is trying to kill you. Even the black dude did at first. You're the one blaming them for surviving such a crap world using the morality of a normal society.

There are no trannies on Anon Babble.

Don't talk about me like I'm not here. Bitch.

Holy shit you are stupid. You're the one who said they removed it from the remake, I said a recording confirming that the cure wouldn't work never existed. The surgeons recording does exist, it just doesn't confirm that the cure wouldn't work.

I love Joel. He's much better than Mike, Jonah, or Emily.

what do you mean? What repetition?

This argument that you keep having where you try and fail to defend the writing. Which you have done yet again by being unable to argue any of the points I brought up.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA chuds are literal fucking schizos

You don’t need to start cackling like a deranged retard over being wrong. thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Surgeon's_recorder

huh

So you didn’t play the game and are just blindly defending shit. A schizo and a retard, always a good combo.

chuds are talking about "dozens of other immune children that fireflies butchered with no results". There's no recording like that and it never existed

bro, mushrooms turn people into zombies

Totally believable

it's possible to find a cure and not turn into a zombie after getting bitten

Impossible

Why do you want your cake and eat it too?

Are you actually trans?

Based

What's it matter if they could make a cure or not? They knocked them unconscious, took Joel from Ellie and made it a straight up business transaction and threatened him.

This is a fucking faction that is going against the government. You think they'll hand over the fucking cure easily peasy? What is this stupid story?

the game also shows that before leaving "moderately regulated civilization" Joel and Tess are straight up ruthless killers. Tess shoots first, it's not self defense. They even murder the guy they are chasing when the job was explicitly to bring him in alive. What's your point in calling them good role models? And what is woke about this?

retard says it’s not there

show it is

tries to go into totally different argument to avoid facing how he just went insane over nothing.

Take your meds, faggot.

Implying it's going to fucking work

It implies that they think it is. There is now logic behind it or any kind of actual explanation of how they would do it.

Only if you are retarded would you believe that. From a deontological point of view, Joel's action is justified.

Joel was going to get her back, didn't matter if they could make a cure or not, he decided he wasn't going to let her die. That's what the lie is about. If they had shown him concrete proof they could do it he would still had killed them. Whether they could actually make the cure or not was irrelevant to his decision (and the Fireflies in the game couldn't be trusted to find their way out of a paper bag, let alone do something useful like development and mass production and distribution of a miracle cure/vaccine). People liked to talk about it because the idea of a father figure choosing his daughter over the world is appealing to many.

Does it even matter if theres a cure if there's factions of roaming cannibals, slavers and general bandits that will just kill and rob you on sight? Not to mention the govt wouldnt just let anyone go without a fight for the cure. The bigger threat always felt like it was fellow man more than the zombies and I doubt any of those groups would suddenly turn into "good" guys

They unironically hallucinated that into existence. Influenced by Joel's lie, because they couldn't handle that Joel destroyed the cure (the story and Joel's choice would be otherwise rather meaningless, any idiot above the reading level of a 3rd grader gets that)

So you’re just going to samefag now?

Dont put Mike next to those other two without a serious power gap.

but that recording is in the remake. And there's nothing in that recording supporting what you're saying (that there were other immune kids fireflies had butchered). Also, it's a very clear suggestion from the creators the cure would work.

are you talking to yourself cause you pinged the wrong sender.
so much for retardation

neil's retarded plan is openly outlined and documented on the web. up to the point where he wanted to make women the zombie virus afflicted. which, needless to say...
alas he eventually sucked the Sarkeesian dick.
where is she btw? has she renewed her vows to herself? kekeke

The spores are the least dangerous part of leaving the FEDRA controlled areas.

Each of those lawless groups would kill the fireflies/be killed by the fireflies anyways because they wouldn't want to return to status quo. They are far too gone for that.

Saying that the cure was always impossible and that the fireflies never could've made it doesn't make the story any good either by the way.

I'm also a different person to the one you were originally talking to. I responded to a post that said they REMOVED it from the game.

Best joke on this board rn.

Imagine if a jew disappeared every time someone on this board typed out the word Joel. You all could actually make planet Earth great again.

Are you still seething about this?
arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/710261279/#710275357

Joel

Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel

I've never played any of the Last of Us games, or Uncharted for that matter.
But I do love knowing Druckmann probably seethes multiple times a week thinking about how much porn there is of all his epic strong women characters.

Which part of the story says that Ellie needs to be straight and have a kid to save humanity, what? One of the dumbest reasons to dislike TLOU.

1. You’re the one that brought this shit up
2. You still can’t argue how the cure will work so you’re latching onto a guy basically saying “two more weeks”

is this post suggesting that "what do they eat" is a valid criticism that can ruin a story?

he's an archive schizo

Take your meds or kill yourself. I'm not whoever you were arguing with before.

>Joel

Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel >Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel Joel

BASED

I think it isn't too farfetched to expect in universe that her inmunity could be passed down to her descendants.

im a different person that is having the same tantrum and screaming the same retarded points and words

You care to prove that.

inb4 ignore it/plays dumb

Samefags are always do the same shit.

much better than mike

"much better"? come on. I am biased because I like Mike and Joel, but you're implying Mike is bad and he has some of the best eps, hands-down. In fact, This Island Earth is one of my favorites and it is with Mike.

It’s ironic, isn’t it? For all the hate they have for Neil Druckmann, he created a fictional character they got so attached to that they literally invent events that never happened and read way too much into the story (talking about the fucking logistics of delivering a vaccine, lol) just to justify Joel’s actions. The Last of Us was unironically too good for its own good.

this is worse than using a youtuber's opinion as rebuttal

Which is one of the dumbest things in the world of the last of us. At least scientifically. Those spores would be everywhere. Game over. All of humanity turned into zombies.

Based. I played the original and was so pissed at the ending that he doomed humanity for some stupid kid, didn't buy the second one but when it got the joeltards mad I was delighted. Get F'd dumbasses.

He is a different person because I'm the guy who was arguing with you yesterday
hello again. you said you were playing Ni No Kuni right? isn't the world in that game literally called Allegoria and the opening scene is a nuke dropping?
talk about subtle writing.

Can you actually argue the logic behind it? Or are you just going to say it’s bad because it just is?

cries about the archive

Yeah faggots usually have the reaction when their bullshit is highlighted. It’s like a kid crying when someone shows a pic of them stealing shit. The fact you’re seething this much over it makes it that much better.

So it's just some retarded headcanon that was never part of The Last Of Us story, right? Good for you.

Yeah. Its retarded that it tries to ground the setting in a realistic world, and yet there is so much disconnect from how things really work. Not as artistic choices, but because the writers didn't do their research. Which hurts the quality of the writing

very jewish of him

That's why it was supposed to be ambiguous.

Cool then you can post some proof as well. Actually why is it that you a totally different person are following a chain that doesn’t involve you? Why do you samefaggots always do shit like this?

Isn't he white

it's also funny how the same people who say

it was always le ambigous whether they would make it or not

often state (sometimes in the same paragraph) that they would absolutely never make it. Just another evidence those people are schizos

Keep seething, faggot. I'm not him. Your archive link proves nothing. Stay mad.

I think it isn't too farfetched to expect in universe that her inmunity could be passed down to her descendants

That would make sense but the Fireflies decided that opening her brain was the best thing to do so it might not be the case. Unless they just didn't think about it (quite likely tbqh).

Yet you still can’t argue it.

Am I imagining things or did this never happen? When I first played tlou2 I could have sworn there were recordings/writings revealing that the "cure" wouldn't have worked and the doctors knew it. Now apparently there's no trace of these recordings/writings in the game.

Only when he is discussing immigration policy

A legend died recently, and he was star of one of the greatest episodes of MST3K starring Joel.

yeah suspension of disbelief is acceptable for fiction. it really doesn't matter what people eat in RPG towns. the implication is that they have access to food. does going to a grain mill and watching someone till a huge fucking field make the story about a guy killing god with a big sword any better?
I argue that it doesn't. If anything, such trivialities waste time

What does this have to do with my post? There is literally zero groundwork for how the shrigma works to begin with. The game didn't care about the science of it, that much is clear.
The point was that if the way the Firefly homebrew vax plot point is now was meant to be definitive and never meant to be ambiguous, stemming strictly from the POV of Joel, who has to decide if it's worth trusting these snake vax salesmen, then it's the dumbest, most fucking idiotically written plot points out there.

N-no-no it's not

Nigger on top right there, scroll up. Over 10 years later this dumb fuck still has to specify that Fireflies were portrayed as retards by accident. I don't think it's the audience problem.

and you're black

Why are you faggots mad when fiction asks you to accept its premise. Just don't fucking play it if it makes you that mad.

Neil himself has said he doesn't think Joel made the wrong choice. It's supposed to be heartbreaking

The fact that you’re getting this worked up over it proves you have an issue. Which doesn’t make sense if it has nothing to do with you.

you posted a picture of our interaction yesterday so I started replying to your chain. I don't think that's absurd
this is me too for transparency

Joel def has OG GOAT status, the old eps hit different, but I always liked Mike mannerisms/voice/jokes. Based for being an MST3K enjoyer tho

moral quandary

No choice but to play it one way

Bravo

i hate pedro pascal, i don't even watch any series involving him but from what i get from his public appearances, he gives that søy energy

I could have sworn there were recordings/writings revealing that the "cure" wouldn't have worked and the doctors knew it.

chud mass psychosis. This thing needs to be studied

Mike was always a better writer but I agree the Joel episodes are just so comfy. I still like the Mike era. Everything after that sucks my dick and balls including most of rifftrax

tlou was so good. Then the DLC dropped, and underage Ellie was sexualized and kissed that Nignog girl. Neil says he didnt mean anything by it and then tlou2 happens and shes farting and sniffing her armpits full dyke.

Since 2013. Wild that they are still mindbroken. My best guess is that Last Of Us winning goty was when their simultaneous psychosis started.

weebs brainrotted need everything to be their powerfantasy waifuslop, good stories make them seethe

Exactly, it's about him taking away her agency because his character arc is completed by finally getting over the death of his daughter with "a new one" that didn't explicitly consent to being his new daughter.
She would have consented to it even if the fireflies said it's a long shot but their only idea now. But they didn't give her that choice and neither did Joel.
Thinking the fireflies succeeding is relevant at all to make this decision a good narrative device is just childish. "OMG he's willing to sacrifice the whole WORLD for her?? Do I agree with this? What would I do??"
Who gives a fuck? That's irrelevant. In the words of Neil Druckmann himself

OF COURSE A FATHER WOULD BE WILLING TO DO ANYTHING FOR HIS DAUGHTER, THAT'S WHAT A FATHER WOULD DO, BUT THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW EACH OTHER AT THE START.

youtu.be/yH5MgEbBOps?t=459
THAT'S why the story works, that's what makes it good, that's the whole weight of the ending segment. The fireflies are incompetent faggots and trying to pretend it totally would have worked to make it ambiguous is retarded. It already is ambiguous, it's about a father-daughter bond being born between strangers, the miracle child is the weakest, most fantasy-like part of the story, it does not matter for anything that isn't trying to justify an unneeded sequel.

No such recording ever existed. Retarded turd world mexican and brazilian macacos invented it out of whole cloth.

Basic science says it wouldn't work, but fungus and cordyceps don't work that way either so it doesn't matter really.

Like usual the midwit can’t actually argue the point and just regurgitate the same point. Do you know what builds suspension of disbelief? Familiarity and creating rules that the world abides by. So showing how the average person in the world lives and subsists is part of creating that. It shows that hey there are people that still need to farm and raise animals even if there are dragons and shit.

does going to a grain mill and watching someone till a huge fucking field make the story about a guy killing god with a big sword any better

Yeah, it establishes that you are in a world with people and not just a story with a bunch of characters, it helps with immersion.

I argue that it doesn't

You’re not arguing, you’re just making statements, there is no logic or actual reasoning behind what you’re saying.

He's just making fun of a retard accusing him of being someone else. Being an archive schizo is nothing to proud of. Nothing proves that it's the same person.
Keep having your meltdown tho. It has been hilarious so far.

You're a retard, he's absolutely right.
Tlou > Tlou 2, but the biggest sin of Tlou 2 (besides a certain body model) was the timeline/flashback fuckery. It should have opened with Abby's flashback to the end of Tlou and picked up where it started from there. The whole thing would've been better chronologically but thst one change would make it 10x better.

I'm just saying man, I don't particularly dislike her being a lesbian or not. Like we can also make an argument for her turning into that because of her rape experience. It's fine but also headcanon.

you posted a picture of our interaction

So it is you, and you are samefagging and seething.

okay I am samefagging but I admit it so it’s better

Take your meds.

autists can't grasp a simple fact that it's a fictional cure for a fictional disease

Joel and Joel supporters.

Just say white men next time.

So showing how the average person in the world lives and subsists is part of creating that

You are an average person. Do you visit the grain mill frequently to remind yourself that the world has people in it? Or is that an inherent assumption you make day to day?
Like does a heist story have to show the mines the diamonds came from? Or the jeweler making the shit before it's stolen from a store? Or do you understand that shit without literally seeing it

I believe their plan wouldn't have worked not because of the vaccine being possible (resident evil made me believe that vaccines in fiction would not just work but also instantly) but more because their world is so far gone that no one would want to get the shot and the gov itself would rather keep their current approach to regular resources and all that.

that pic

lmao. You can't tell this guy is making fun of people like you?

Even if the rest of mankind suddenly became immune they wouldn't be able to deal with zombies anyway.

bro accept the premise bro, just sacrifice your loved ones for salvation bro

ehh... no

You accused that guy if being me but I was right here so I said hello. I don't know why this is a smug W moment for you but I'm glad you enjoyed it

That actually is part of the problem, if you don't present it as a choice people are going to go out of their way to justify the one course of action the game allows. That the original release made it so easy to paint the Fireflies in the wrong only helped.

Ok, which of these faggots is winning this internet argument? Are any of you retards keeping score?

Intent is irrelevant. Only the end product matters.

You are an average person. Do you visit the grain mill frequently to remind yourself that the world has people in it

I don’t have to because I live in a modern world where I can got to a grocery store. However a peasant in a fantasy world would have to go to a market to buy bread and showing where the baker gets it is an important part of creating an actual world.

Like does a heist story have to show the mines the diamonds came from

Do you know of any heist movies that take place in fantasy worlds?

This is extremely disingenuous. The whole premise of The Last of Us' world building is "what would happen if cordyceps infected people?"
You know what wouldn't happen? Fungal vaccines. The premise asks you suspend your disbelief over the fact that cordyceps has never shown to affect people so far, not over every single thing that ever happened in the real world. There is an established ground truth, and medicine that was not possible in 2013 being possible 25 years later in a post apocalyptic world is not part of that.

there was no choice and Joel lying to ellie meant nothing

Well done, you made the story worse.

More like you were going apeshit because you were caught doing the same shit you were doing yesterday and now have to larp as other people to cope and say it was mocking while you project your mental illness on me.

you redefined open world to mean openness of gameplay, so any proper debate is impossible

any heist movies that take place in fantasy worlds?

That DnD movie from a few years ago

people are going to go out of their way to justify the one course of action the game allows.

he literally does it in the next sentence

HOLY FUCKING SHIT LMAO

I didn't post anything yesterday. Keep going with your meltdown. You can do it.

NOW you realized TLOU is shit?

I'm still a different guy :(

More like I accused you of being you and you’re trying to say it’s a different person while not giving any proof.

I don't know why this is a smug W moment for you

It’s not? It’s more just tardwrangling a schizo that can’t stop seething that his favorite game has shit writing and therefore he is not the smart and clever boy he thinks he is.

No, but you're mindbroken since 2013.

see

was our science a little shaky

Ironic because now vaccine has a completely different definition than it did 5 years ago. THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED! DRUCKMAN WAS ACCURATE!

Still no proof, just crying how it’s totally not you after admitting you posted this shit.

I'm saying that even if the Fireflies were presented as perfect in the game, people still would have sided with Joel. That they are presented as awful and incompetent just makes it overwhelming and near universal

Were they stealing diamonds?

The character made a choice. Not the player. Boy, tlou haters are surely the apex retards out there.

And you've been brown since birth.

drukman is a billionaire joeltards are incels despised on the same level as anime gooners crying that their favorite 12 year old animu got covered up

I openly tried to continue a conversation we were having yesterday. I have no idea why pretending to be another guy halfway through that conversation would make any sense not do I know how the fuck I could ever prove I am not another poster.

Do you want to talk about Ni No Kuni more?

Proof of what?
Two can play this game.
You samefagged this whole thread. Now prove me wrong. Go ahead.

I wanna see her tiny feet

the writer made a choice, that's why it's shit.

There is an established ground truth, and medicine that was not possible in 2013

cordyceps infecting humans like it does ants wouldn't be possible in 20013(sic!) and that's established ground truth. It also wouldn't be possible in 200013 (sic1) either. It requires very long and specific coevolution. You are being disingenous. You are accepting the game's logic for species jump and for ellie being immune but you can't for a vaccine. You're a schizochud, nothing more

There is an established ground truth, and medicine that was not possible in 2013 being possible 25 years later in a post apocalyptic world is not part of that.

I think suspension of disbelief for an unrealistic disease can be extended to an unrealistic treatment for said disease. The fact that fungal vaccines aren't a thing we currently have in the real world doesn't really factor into any of the logic or drama of the fictional plot outside of pedantic nitpicking.

first Tlou: ambiguity about the cure being feasible or not

Joel and Ellie care for each other after their journey together, he decides to save her against her will, the cure was a long shot anyway but the game didn't tell you it was impossible so you can still wonder about it, people like the ending and talk about it for years

Druckmann in 2025: "uuuuuuh no, the Fireflies 100% WOULD have made a cure if not for Joel STOPPING THEM! this was our intent all along mmmmm'okay" (they just forgot to show it in the game oops)

Joel is a piece of shit who selfishly deprived the world of the cure by murdering the heroic Fireflies

Bravo Druckmann. As others pointed out a cure wouldn't change anything at this point but but it's clearly about reshaping Joel's decision in a negative way.

illiterate street shitting pajeets don't get it

No surprise there

Because you were trying to that before this

Ni No Kuni

Why did you run after I posted that? You just left the thread.

Proof of what

You’re not a samefag, but good job showing you’re a histrionic retard that needs to play dumb when cornered.

people still would have sided with Joel

that's the point of the game. They would make the cure but you're supposed to side with Joel because daughter means more than the whole world

The thing that would make The Last of Us II a million times better was if it handled character switching like Alan Wake II does. Instead it opts for the DMC4 route. It's bad pacing in a dumb shounen action game, it's bad pacing in torture porn.
Disagreements about story direction would matter a lot less if the game wasn't a drag to play. Shit's boring.

Keep crying, faggot. I am a samefag, what now? Kill yourself

Even if they could have made a cure, what good would it have done? It's established that basically everyone hates the fireflies, and the feeling appears to be mutual. How did they plan to deliver it even in the highly unlikely scenario they were being charitable about it? Were they going to sell it at extortionate prices to rule with an iron fist? And if they planned to horde it, how did they plan to deal with it when word got out and everyone came knocking down their door? What was their plan for the monsters already out there who wouldn't care that you're immune to infection whilst they crush your skull and rip your limbs off?

Insisting they could have made a cure also doesn't address the other issues such as not even giving Ellie a choice in the matter or a chance to say goodbye, nor throwing Joel out without supplies, at gunpoint, without paying their half of the trade, and leaving him to die meaning that even if he didn't give a fuck about Ellie he would be returning in anger anyway if he survived.

Then why even bother making The Last of Us in the first place?

You just left the thread

Yeah sorry I got busy. I do think it's funny that the world is called Allegoria but I honestly know very little outside those surface things
I've been playing The Precinct. Now THAT game has some shit garbage writing. They try to hide behind it being campy on purpose but it's just bad.

Now I’m going to laugh at you for being an unhinged faggot that needs to larp as other people to argue something and end up failing anyway.

Why aren't twitter threads banned yet?

Tranimefags would be overjoyed for the male protagonist to be killed for a seque full of dykes chasing a tomboy who abandons revenge for the power of friendship, thoughbeit

You already admitted to samefagging and being the same retard from the last thread. Just stop. Get help.

thanks anon that was a neat read

no shit I admitted to being the guy from last thread. I am continuing that direct line of conversation. I told you multiple times now.

I never larped at all, you're just an unhinged schizo who thought that you totally got somebody dead to rights with your archive link and instead you just shitted your pants out of anger for the whole duration of that thread. Keep going with your meltdown, schizo.

The worst thing you could do as an author is present information about your story outside of the scope of the story. For all we, the player, and Joel knew it was a gamble whether she would be the ultimate cure or would have died pointlessly. The original game having a grungier looking hospital with a digusting operating room didn't help to make them look like they were geniuses capable of curing a disease no one else in the world could have cured. It would be like if at the end of Halo Reach the writer came out and said "Actually if 6 got on the Pillar of Autumn he would have survived the events of the game and helped Chief out through the series."

to stick it to the hetero white man

Sure is, but then you're rejecting the game's premise. Feel free to not play it because you find it too stupid. But having accepted the game's premise, if they keep contradicting real world logic they supposedly operate under, then it just undermines the established world building.
If any group of retarded faggots who get their asses beat by one angry dude are fully equipped to make unthinkable breakthroughs in medicine, it just becomes silly. You can then extend the logic and ask "if these retards could do it, then surely other, less retarded groups could too, and maybe not kill her in the process?"
It's too much of an ask. I think the ending works wonderfully while assuming the fireflies are incompetent retards, because it's all about Joel taking Ellie's agency away from her because he feels justified in doing so as her new father. And her confronting his bullshit but reluctantly accepting it anyway is her giving him that consent after all, closing both of their character arcs beautifully with a sort of uncomfortable ending. It's a real tragedy, and great.
If I have to pretend they totally would have made a cure for the ending to be morally ambiguous, not only that's asking too much even of first playthrough me, but it also cheapens the whole thing into a childish trolley problem. That's not anywhere near as interesting as the growth they go through to surpass grief in their own ways, and the bond that flourishes.
Though I suppose THE LIFE OF A LOVED ONE VS THE LIVES OF THE MANY!!!! is the kind of retarded comic book moral dilemma I'd expect of someone who thinks "revenge is not worth it" is an interesting enough direction to take a sequel.

read my post once again because you clearly didn't understand it

Yes, and?

Ellie's immunity is in fact the least interesting, most fantasy-like part of the story, without a doubt. Adds nothing but a mcguffin and contrived bullshit. It's already a tall ask.

Sure, I can agree. I'd be willing to suspend my disbelief over "we're keeping her locked up to run tests to eventually find a cure, even if it costs her life, you'll never see her again." But "we're taking off her brain to make a cure" is just wild.

Imagine admitting to being a samefag, and then trying to continue to do it only to cry how you’re a totally different person. Lol this is why no one takes TLOUfags seriously they’re all deranged.

moral quandary so strong people are retconning it in their heads because it makes them uncomfortable

they are hallucinating audiologs out of thin air

they are desperately fighting it for literal years

we're talking about a videogame

neil druckmann is a god tier writer

I have a feeling you just want to sperg out instead of engaging in the conversation that YOU fucking saved from yesterday and brought up here. get a grip, dickless freak.

If you all want a real hard hitting ending to The Last Of Us that truly reflects how bad the world can be then try this on for size...

After the Fireflies capture Joel and Ellie, Joel wakes up from being knocked out to Marlene explaining to him that they have already operated on Ellie to make the vaccine and she is already dead, he never had a say in the matter and it wouldn't have changed things anyway. Marlene then points a gun at Joel and says if she let him go then he would never stop coming after them before shooting him in the head and killing him.

The scene changes to a young Abby walking down the hall towards the operating room where her father was operating on Ellie. As she opens the door she sees her father who is merely a crackhead pretending to be a doctor buttfucking Ellie's freshly butchered corpse. She gives him the (oh you) look and chuckles nervously while saying "Oh dad! Not this again!" He turns to lock eyes with his young daughter as he reaches up to hit a large red button on the wall. The sound of a large mechanical lock clicks shut on the door behind Abby as the father says "I don't know what you're laughing about you little bitch, you're next!"

Roll credits...now surely everyone is going to be like what the FUCK was that shit?! So they stick around after the credits hoping for a secret scene to add some clarity or tease a sequel. But get this... The after credits scene is just the clip of the bunny getting shot with the arrow from earlier in the game played over "bassboostedFARTwithHallReverb.mp3" then it cuts to black and takes you back to the main menu where the title screen has been replaced with a picture of Neil Druckmann with a shit eating grin flipping a double bird directly at the player. ABSOLUTE CINEMA

Shalom xister!

This

I did and I stand by my response. Hope that helps.

If we were in 2013 I would have agreed. Uncharted 4 was garbage, The Last of Us Part II was really weak too. I think he just got lucky with the first.
People trying to credit Bruce Straley, someone who isn't a writer, for all the good things in the writing are just retards coping, but there is something to be said about whoever was that convinced him to give up on The Last of Us being about Tess chasing them across America for revenge because it was dumb being sorely missed from every title he wrote since. They're full of dumb shit like that. Especially Uncharted 4.

Why cure humanity if it means no loliwife?

I thought that was the point? He’s right, it’s only interesting if Joel foregoes a cure to save all humanity just to save Ellie’s life. I assumed the was the case from the start.

NEXT GUY

I think suspension of disbelief for an unrealistic disease can be extended to an unrealistic treatment for said disease

What unrealistic treatment? The game never told you they would find anything and didn't do anything to make you seriously consider it, their facilities and equipement didn't inspire confidence and they all looked like they were winging it. Any treatment always came as a pipe dream. Open her skull, ???, the cure is here? Suspension of disbelief doesn't work when it's nonsensical even by the standards set in the game.

yup, tsmt

But "we're taking off her brain to make a cure" is just wild.

It's a plot contrivance to take ellie's agency over the decision out of the picture because the drama doesn't work if she's going into it fully informed and accepting of what's happening. I think it's perfectly fair to take issue with it, but

that's not actually how they'd make a zombie vaccine in real life

isn't much more than a nitpick. I think some people just feel like it's all a bit sudden and bullshit and fixate on out of game logic of the medical stuff to try to explain why.

i'm gonna rephrase it a little. You can't accept FICTIONAL CURE in a story after already accepting things that are ridiculously more implausible and that makes you dishonest chud

samefag cries about me not engaging when he’s the one that can’t argue and had to larp as other people and deflect

It just keeps getting better and better

Finally someone say what we've ALL been thinking!

I wish anti-drukk redditors would leave already...

Wasn't the fact that he made a self-insert character just to spit on Joel's dead body enough for you fags to understand?

last of us fans here are literal trooncels

Makes sense.

Wait so is druckman saying child sacrifice is a good thing?

star wars sequels must be pure kino to you then

Isn't it unbalanced to ask people to accept that Joel is willing to doom humanity to save his daughter but the fireflies aren't willing to doom humanity for a hail mary? Why do they have to be beyond fault, are they not more interesting if they're so desperate they're willing to sacrifice everything for a tiny chance too?
I really never understood this idea that the ending only works if they're perfect. Ellie would agree to the hail marry, 100%. Joel is still taking this choice away from her because he knows she would. He has to lie, she knows he's lying, title drop, cool song at the end. That's what makes the ending, not that the world is now (???? loook around, shit's been over forever) doomed.

i wouldn't call uncharted 4 garbage, it's allright but it's so much worse than first three games (and the spinoff with the ladies). Difference in quality is a little jarring desu

I'm not a child, I've discussed this ending several years before your lot made up this word as a catch all boogeyman to people who disagree with you. Used to be "nazis" but that never applied to discussing the ending of The Last of Us because in 2013 not agreeing with a specific part of a videogame you still loved was not enough to be called one. Crazy how far we got.

The game never told you they would find anything

it literally does

and didn't do anything to make you seriously consider it

it also does that too. Seriously, most of the debate would disappear if you had just replayed the game

Unless Bruce Straley confirms this IDGAF. Cuckmann has never made a good story or game in his life and I don't believe he even wrote the first TLoS. What he says about the story doesn't matter at all.

Even supposing you wouldn't know they can't make a cure, the Fireflies are still wrong. Just like there's a chance it may succeed, there's a chance that it will fail too. I think there's a strong argument to be made that killing her to cure at all is wrong, but it's definitely wrong to kill her on just a chance.

remember the scars island?

damn that was kino

I really never understood this idea that the ending only works if they're perfect

No one's saying they're perfect, but if you presume there isn't at least a chance for a cure the ending just turns into joel saving ellie from another group of retarded raiders and them being way too dramatic about fucking nothing at all.

better than EUslop

i don't even know which ones are the sequels

That's the way I've always interpreted it. I thought the drama was supposed to be that Joel decided for Ellie. Maybe the cure is real, maybe it isn't. Does it really matter?

Druckmann tweeting in 2025 they totally would have found it is not the same as the game making it clear it was a done deal before Joel ruining their day. The game didn't anything close to that, it was ambiguous and with the Fireflies being stupid and incompetent from beginning to the end the odds were abysmal.

I didn't play the second game so I don't give a shit if they retconned it there.

I'll call it garbage any day but it's not just because of the writing, don't get me wrong, I think the pacing is abhorrent and the main culprit. I just happen to also think the story is really weak.
Druckmann desperately need to take editing classes like he took acting ones for The Last of Us. Those clearly paid off, he did a fantastic job directing those cutscenes, so it's worth trying. Especially now that SSD is the norm and he can do any kind of wild cut he could imagine. Enough holding forward to watch characters yap for hours. It's a videogame, either make it a cutscene or add actually meaningful interaction.

The Fireflies betrayed Joel, a guy who did everything they wanted up to that point. Anyone who think such group would be benevolent enough to distribute the vaccine to the rest of humanity, even if they could make the first fungal vaccine (lol), with only one doctor (lmao), on a decaying hospital, with no resources and no intricate logistics, is a retard.

of course it matters. It's about the stakes and what he's willing to sacrifice to not lose Ellie. He was so buckbroken by losing Sarah that now he's willing to fuck the entire world to not lose Ellie. It's so clear, you're all bunch of retards

The fact an old man essentially deleted their gang is enough proof shit wouldn't go nowhere lmao
You are telling me that even if everything went right, they would have survived the first raiders that confronted them? kek

it was ambiguous and with the Fireflies being stupid and incompetent from beginning to the end the odds were abysmal.

LMAO
see>it is not the same as the game making it clear it was a done deal
there's a recording of a very excited doctor talking about a breakthrough and the discovery on the level of penicilin and there's a scene with marlene saying that it is basically a done deal

online discussions warped the image of the game in your brain. Just replay it

I don't care if the incompetent socialist trannie faction could have actually made a real vaccine. I would have killed them to save my daughter wife anyway.

It's about the stakes and what he's willing to sacrifice to not lose Ellie

How is that any different from before you fucking retard? Joel never had any way of knowing, he never could possibly know, he still decided to save her.
It's just Druckmann saying to the players that Joel fucked up the cure which is has nothing to do with the story and the stakes and eveything to do with Druckmann quietly seething about Joel being the most popular character in the games.

But nobody is, people say they don't believe they're capable of it in a million years, but there's always the "but what if...?"
The reason these discussions are made in absolutes is because the writer says "no it totally would" so people then strongly argue why that's stupid, if it was just left for interpretation, then whatever.
The people needing the cure to be real are saying they're not willing to sacrifice a random girl for a chance, only for certainty. That's a comparatively extremely weak moral dilemma. There's no doubt Joel would sacrifice the certainty of a cure for Ellie. Why can't the fireflies risk a child?
They're retarded raiders, yes, but not from their perspective. No one would tell you after playing the game that the fireflies didn't believe their cause. They're dumb as shit every step of the way, at least in my interpretation, they've always been shitty and their cause is worthless, but they believe it fully. That's enough to justify their actions. Isn't that the whole point? For Joel, that girl means more than the world. To the fireflies, that girl is a mere chance that means more than any one person.
They have no moral struggles of their own if the cure is a certainty, they're victims if anything. Of course a father won't be ok with that, but none of them are her father. Their "oh no this poor girl" drama is compeltely unearned after what anyone who has been alive for that long had to do to stay alive.

The Fireflies didn't give her a choice in the matter either. That's the first and foremost place where they're wrong and why Joel is right to defend her. And he took the only course of action he could to do that, they weren't just gonna let him back out peacefully.

He's still willing to fuck the entire world for Ellie. It's crazy how your side of the argument doesn't see this while trying to argue that your version is actually the more nuanced one.

druckman is seething that people like joel

just another evidence that you're schizos

They would make 1000 vaccines, give it to 1000 people and... nothing would happen, because being immune doesn't fix shit in a world where infected can rip you apart and people shoot each other on sight.
Unironically if they just made a bunch of fungicide and threw it everywhere, starting from their city it would have been a way better solution.

What anon said was right. The cure was irrelevant for so many reasons

No reason to think they could (No cuccman you retarded writing doesnt defy the law of logic)

The worlds first fungal vaccine synthesised from dissecting a girl lmao ok

EVEN IF THEY DID- they dont have the resources to mass produce and distribute it

EVEN IF THEY DID- what was the fucking point? The world already ended, everyone died, its over. The world is already recovering without a cure.

The drama was all about the fact that Joel was so unwilling to lose another daughter figure that he moved heaven and earth to save her. The reason why she wasnt just "oh thanks dad I love you" is because of the added complication of Ellie:

Being born into a crap sack hopeless world without purpose

Everyone dying around her racking her with survivors guilt

Convincing herself that if she died for a cure it could at least mean something

Its retarded thinking, but she's allowed to think like that because shes a traumatised child. Joel is doing the whole "Im doing this for your own good" parent shtick, at the cost of damaging their relationship. Thats the true drama, and its great.

Cuccmans focus on the cure draws focus away from it and focuses the story on "lets save duh world fireflyz!" which is a retarded premise and markedly less interesting

there's a recording of a very excited doctor talking about a breakthrough and the discovery on the level of penicilin

You're talking about this one?
thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Surgeon's_recorder

"We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions."

You have some memory problems.There is no breakthrough, they find an immune girl and decide to open her skull. That's what he's excited about.That's it.
The Fireflies (including Marlene) were fucking retarded.

nooo!! he doomed humanity

Women and <100 IQ

he did the right thing, they would kill a kid and it would've gone nowhere

Men

pacing is bad, yes, but my main complaint is that i didn't feel the drive in nathan's actions. Felt forced, unnatural. In those other four games i mentioned i felt that but in this one i didn't

Why does no one EVER brings up how the fireflies fucked Joel over regardless if the cure was possible or not?

deliver Ellie to them

they refuse to pay him

steal all his gear

arrest him

consider killing him

decide instead to just release him alone and with no equipment on a post apocalyptic wasteland full of zombies and raiders, which was pretty much a death sentence anyway

He was right to fight back.

The only people who disagree with these takes are actual troons

April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.

We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.

You have some memory problems.There is no breakthrough, they find an immune girl and decide to open her skull. That's what he's excited about.That's it.

fucking lol, lmao even

I think they were supposed to give his gear back at the door, but that's just a detail anyway.

Why does no one EVER brings up

i saw it literally dozens of time here after that one retarded girl from tiktok made a video

That's the thing people don't see and why trying to provide a voice of God saying that it totally would have worked cheapens it for people.
Most of the people saying the fireflies are retards and they don't think the cure would ever have worked still liked the ending. You're taking away nuance for no benefit. They still bought that the fireflies believed their cure, they still bought that Joel wouldn't have agreed to it even if they didn't think the cure and its distribution was impossible.

Everything works. Every faction is justified in their actions. There is a great conflict between fireflies, Joel and Ellie and the ending hits hard.
The retcon is worthless and makes the morality more black and white to the people who didn't buy the cure narrative, because none of them were saying "the cure wouldn't exist therefore the ending sucks." This is a really good ending, by the way I don't think a cure would exist."
Or at least that's how it used to be when only the first game existed, it got more complicated and stupidly politicized the more that was added to this universe.

this is the best explanation of the whole debate

Holy shit taste

He'll never learn, he keeps repeating the same mistake and tanking his career further and further. If they hadn't already filmed season 3 of the show, it would have been cancelled by now. Everyone has dropped that garbage at this point and Naughty Dog's next game is a guaranteed bomb. Druckmann is finished.

Yes anon, they find the miraculous immune human and decide to kill her with absolutely zero guarantee anything will come of it, they "must find a way" but they have no idea about how going there. They're winging it and killing Ellie.

So how is the player supposed to know a cure is a 100% sure deal? Can you find me the exact quote? It's clearly not in that tape.

It's very clear it would work

Given what the word of the vet in charge?

anon making up fairy tales in his head

When i played the game it didn't even cross my mind that they wouldn't make it

Yeah, this sums it up for me too. It's a brilliant ending as presented in the game, but the added outside retcons just make me think it was unintentionally brilliant.

Anon Babble will discuss TLOU1 and 2 intricately for years on end in threads that reach bump limit and then also insist that they're bad and forgettable games

lmao

I think he meant the shit they stole back in Boston, that was supposed to be the payment for delivering Ellie to them.

Nothing anon said is wrong

and decide to kill her

if you had replayed the game you would know they didn't need ellie, only the fungus from her head. But you didn't replay it

Can you find me the exact quote?

"Marlene: The doctors tell me that the Cordyceps, the growth inside her, has somehow mutated. It's why she's immune. Once they remove it, they'll be able to reverse engineer a vaccine. A vaccine."

The first game is and always was good. The second one is trash, pure and simple. There's no argument to the contrary.

if you had replayed the game you would know they didn't need ellie, only the fungus from her head.

Not a sure thing at all. You can find their logs that explain once outside of her body, the fungus inside her resume developing as normal in culture dishes.

chuds lost, drukk won. simple as

I mean you hear anyone discussing the gameplay here? Story is all it has.

As far as Dead Space clones go, it's solid.

It reads as if they're just taking a massive gamble doing it. Honestly I've never been sure why exactly they needed to do the surgery right here and now if it's been 10 years since the apocalypse. It can wait a year while they try everything else under the sun.

He definitely didn't win. The game bombed. His HBO show is now also tanked with viewership sharply dropped off. He tried to burn his career in video games down for a chance in Hollywood and now that's also up in flames lmao. He's got nowhere else to go, they'll never give him another project and Naughty Dog isn't going to survive when their next game flops, which it will.

gameplay is great though, especially in 2. They're really solid stealth action games.

I can't think of a single game where things going wrong makes for satisfying gameplay, certainly no other stealth games not even MGSV because TLOU is so much more visceral.

Because the Fireflies have essentially been wiped out already, if the cure gamble doesn't pay off in the short term they are done for

And that's the point were we go back to the Fireflies being useless dumbfucks all game long and I ask you why anyone would think they knew what they were doing or how you got "guaranteed vaccine" out of that but I finally realized the kind of autist I'm arguing with so this is pointless.

That just kind of makes them even more retarded. So much for the sake of humanity angle.

you are literal clinical schizos holy fucking shit

The gameplay is great if you hit the encounter selector, choose one and play. The campaign has too much meandering, I count that as gameplay too. Not gonna just count the combat arenas if the game does everything in its power to get in your way.

It reads as if they're just taking a massive gamble doing it.

literally fucking how? Marlene is saying literally that they would be able to do it

To quote a far better game

So I guess I'd become what they wanted me to be, a killer. Some rent-a-clown with a gun who puts holes in other bad guys. Well that's what they had paid for, so in the end that's what they got. Say what you want about Americans but we understand capitalism. You buy yourself a product and you get what you pay for, and these chumps had paid for some angry gringo without the sensibilities to know right from wrong.

Joel was hired to transport Ellie and was most likely gonna killed be afterward because they never had his reward. They paid for a killer to protect Ellie and they go one.

Not an argument

Jesus, man. This is actual autism, KEK.

I mean it's literally posted that the fungus continues to develop normally outside Ellie's body.

but they need the whole structure that developed in ellie's brain

I like morally complex scenarios and exploring them in games, but tlou2 failed in that completely. They want players to see a parallel in joel killing abbys father and abby killing joel. But Joel was protecting his daughter, abby wrongly felt entitled to revenge.

And insisting abbys perspective is as valid as joel/ellies or possibly more so, is insulting.

Its a pseudo intellectual contrarian take. The perceived value in it hinges on the notion that everyone else is simply too stupid to understand how brilliant it is. It reeks of egotism.

And telling your viewer what to think is the farthest thing from deep. A truly deep game encourages the viewer to think for themselves and draw their own conlcusions.

could have made a cure

For what fucking purpose? Society is gone, and the decades after the game will be a perpetual hell. Even worse, there's no benefit in trying to say, years after the fact, that they totes could have made a cure. There is no real explanation for why they needed to kill Ellie,

And how is there any guarantee that will give them anything of value? All of the evidence seems to point to the immunity being innate to Ellie, not the specific strain of the fungus that she is infected with.

All of the evidence seems to point to the immunity being innate to Ellie, not the specific strain of the fungus that she is infected with.

you absolutely are clinical schizos.

The doctors tell me that the Cordyceps, the growth inside her, has somehow mutated. It's why she's immune.

you can't be reasoned with. It's literally impossible

But then why does it resume growing as normal when removed from Ellie's system, genius?

Obviously they should have started an Ellie breeding program before they cut her open.

Does it?

Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab...

Memes aside, that should have been their first course of action if they were actually legitimate scientists. Why wouldn't they check to see if her immunity is hereditary?

Unless I hear it from Amy Hennig as well, this man might as well say Joel also had a vagina and drank cum with his breakfast.

Based anti-vaxxer joel

If he wins an award he's Jewish and a credit to his race, when he gets in trouble for being a sex pest he'll shapeshift into a white man.