I’ll never beat it. :(

I’ll never beat it. :(

If you're playing on 0.33 (current version), just go with MiFi and go with whatever god you feel you can handle
Oka is utter shit and always will be since the rework
Trog is a meme after midgame. So is Mak
Gozag isn't bad, Yred is actually pretty good, Dith is also great. Hep's acenstor if you make it a hexer can carry a MiFi easily. Nem while great is dependant on the concept of 'hit the panic button before it's too late' so avoid'
Us and Qaz are broken as fuck but requires you to be fighting a lot ot get the best of them

I could never get into roguelikes because I have no idea how people find number crunching math bullshit fun. You need to cross reference how skills and other shit impact each other to make a decent build, which is fucking horribly boring game design, and then it just turns into a walking into enemies simulator.

I’ll try mifi today. I just stick with Minotaur berserker for an easy win but always get raped in shoals or lair

Because a win is bragging rights

What weapon do you go with usually?
And what rapes you mostly?

And you are using intelligence in terms of dungeon crawling, right? So you go down to about D:8 - 10 (or till you find lair), do lair 1-4, back to D:15, Orc, back to Lair for the side branches but leave the last levels

Basically just don't go into the final levels of most branches until you've reached the next branch so like, Lair 5 shouldn't be done until you see Depths, Swamp: 4 etc, shouldn't be done until you reach (not enter) the vaults, etc

unless you have a well prepped character that can take most of the dangers

Most roguelikes aren't math heavy at all or require much in terms of 'builds'
Only two really come to mind is ToME 4 and DC:SS and even then, DC:SS has mostly be solved in terms of 'weapon skill to get 1.0 on your weapon, then pump your defenses' and for casters it's 'spell skills to 3% or less failure and then defenses'

ToME4 on its own is a massive fuckery of a roguelike and I would agree it's there for autists to build shit with and for me to do the infinite dungeon because it's fun

I'm not trying to be mean, but you genuinely need a triple digit IQ to enjoy actual roguelikes. Most people don't qualify.

'weapon skill to get 1.0 on your weapon, then pump your defenses' and for casters it's 'spell skills to 3% or less failure and then defenses'

You just invoked far more math than any videogame should ever have. Fucking spreadsheet simulator.

I go with whatever weapon I find that has highest damage rating. And it’s been a five headed dragon or something like that a lot lately.
I don’t do that strategy specifically but I play very strategically based on the couple 2 hour videos I’ve watched from Malcolm rose

I'm not trying to be mean but I'm going to imply you are substandard IQ

Suck a shit covered dick

Anon, do you know how to count?
Like, you do play normie slop like souls, right? It's the same fucking concept of 'read stats, see numbers, comprehend'

Ah, I see, you're a normie

Oh fuck no don't do that. Bad idea. Stick with the weapon type you picked at char creation
If you do spear and then swap to say, because it says 'more damage' doesn't mean shit - you might be hitting slowly with it and miss if your skill is low
No idea who that is so can't comment on the video

And what the fuck is a five headed dragon? Are you talking about a hydra?

Like, you do play normie slop like souls, right?

No?

I've only ever finished a run without any orbs as spriggan enchanter.
I think with how much of a shitter I am, I could only manage 3 orbs max, but I've yet to pull it off.
I've moved on to ToME a while back though after I learned the dev(s?) kept changing shit in stone soup.
I've beaten ToME twice, once as oozemancer, the second as doomed.
I'm still trying to pull off cultist of entropy and demonologist to varying degrees of success.

Yes hydra. They’ve been responsible for like 60% of my recent deaths. I think weapon choice is fucking me up. I’ll def focus on understanding that more.

I have beaten nethack 20 times and brogue and some other roguelikes but I haven't gotten far in DCSS because I hate the idea of playing some kind of monster superhero. I only want to play as human, and either fighter, hedge wizard, or wanderer and it feels like it will take the fun out of the game to play that way.

I went on win streaks with random shit in DCSS without doing math at any point, pure brainlet cope.

weapon skill to get 1.0 on your weapon, then pump your defenses

Literally all you need to know, and there's a command to check your attacks per turn which is what the 1.0 is referring to.

The most important thing in this game is to use your consumables against the counters to your build. Too many people die with stacks of Teleport scrolls or Blinking or Heal Wounds. The most brain-dead way to clear the game is with a MiBe that mostly leans on summoning friends. If you want to also clear Extended, the path of least resistance from there is dealing with Trog's wrath and converting to TSO.

Definitely watch out for any Axes of Flaming. If you can pick those up, swap to those and you should always be able to beat a Hydra 1v1, especially if you're hitting it with some throwing stuff while it's approaching. If you can't find an Axe of Flaming, you'll just have to keep around usually a Mace, though if you find an awesome Spear it can work too. You don't need to train them but using an Axe against a Hydra is a death sentence unless your build's pretty juiced.

Love dcss. I mainly play Kimchi these days because I'm not into the latest changes to combat or the extended game, but man, every few months I fall back in hard and play it til I knock back a few runs.
githubXcom/kimjoy2002/crawl/releases/tag/kimchi-1.3.2

My favorite build is Merfolk Fighter lately, and just go hard Polearms and TSO.
Merfolk + Going polearms means Shoals goes from a PITA early branch to a huge guaranteed power boost.
Super fun holy spearman, Fighters are pretty flexible that you can dip into different build paths, level Invoke to summon an army of angels, and fucking stab, dodge and block to victory. Gives you an deterministic end game weapon in a +9 Holy Trishula which are fucking dope and great in late game, but tons of flexibility.

Inspires me to make my own roguelike one day. I just love the artifact/randart system. Roguelikes are the best when you get that godtier build defining drop in that once in a hundred runs, and this game is really good at scratching that itch but being low barrier of entry. I'll always come back to her.
pic related. rock hard.

it's been a while but slashing weapons and burning weapons fuck up hydras. start with an axe, axes fuck because they can cleave and that can carry you through some early mistakes and should chop off hydra heads.

hydras

You used a bladed weapon, didn't you, kek
It cuts a head off and unless it is flame branded, they will grow two heads
So 6 heads get hit with an axe, it now is 7 heads

Train throwing to 5 at some point after you get your weapon skill to whatever level it its to get to 1.0 attack speed. I'd go weapon skill > fighting/armor/evasion to 5 > throwing to 5 > fighting to 10 then armor/evasion to 10 then weapon skill to min delay
Assuming Trog

I'd also advise at some point to stick to one hand and get a shield (buckler or small shield forget what they called it this time) to start and put it up to about 5-10 evetually

With Trog Brothers in Arms is like 'I win' button for most of the mid game so use it like 2-3 times if you see a hydra and you don't have it dead/near death from ranged
Even two trolls, despite cutting its head off, will take one down

Also this, I'm guilty of this too but potions and strolls are there to save you so use them

Human is actually pretty good in this game since it's avearge at almost every skill meaning due to the sheer amount of things you find, you can adapat into most situations since you can skill differently easily
Also they're good with a lot of gods and can do most builds

Tried Kimchi a bit in wizard mode to see some of the stuff
Definitely miss the old Nemelx and the sheer amount of fuckery he could do

reading i might have given you bad advice with the axe lmao. fire apparently is correct though!

I keep trying to get a Coglin through Extended and this was my second time dying in Tomb. I was just about at the end of it, too, but I got impatient. It's OK because I want to get a ranged Coglin there anyway. T:3 is just such a fucking nasty place if you don't pick up TSO or Zin.

Thanks for the advice anon. Gonna put it to use later

I don't think about math at all when playing roguelikes. Then again I don't play many and Unreal world and ADOM are my faves.

Oka is utter shit and always will be since the rework

Damn, that bad? When I played years ago he was definitely one of the best "warrior" gods.

They reworked Oka's gifts and they are nowhere near as good. They've also fucked with Duel quite a bit, I'm not sure where it's at right now. +5 to combat stats and boosted attack speed is still really strong, but these things have always been kinda worse than what other Gods have to offer, especially with some reworked ones around, and now that his gifts aren't as good he lost a lot of his appeal. Still supplies premium throwing items all game, at least.

Yred is actually good

Oka is straight trash

What the fuck have I missed?
Not that I mind. I always liked Yred, but I like a nice, simple god like Oka from time to time.

my first win was a Gnoll
i think they are a much more fun beginner friendly class because you can freely use whatever cool stuff you find
but you can't use triple crossbows or executioners axes or anything like that so in the lategame your damage can be a little low

Axes will cut the head off and make two regrow unless flaming but they are pretty fucking good for newbies due to cleave but also give them too much perceived power where trying to cleave against say, 6 orcs is okay, trying to cleave about 6 orc warlords or 6 other hard enemies will get them killed fast

The problem is his gifts are pretty shit now
In fact, acquirement in general is utterly fucked. Finesse is still useful but if you're relying on meleebruting your way past most of the base game, then you're kinda fucked either way

And duel is more of a hinderance than a boon, on exit you get the same hp/mp you had and also monsters now get a turn to rape you in the ass. On the bright side you can duel anything so you can technically kill the one annoying enemy in agroup but don't take Oka expecting him to give you a good gift (you only get one weapon and one armor)
You usally get shit like picrel

From three runes, anon
See above regarding Oka but the throwing weapons can be good
Yred got massively buffed but he was always great for a meleebrute in standard game

NetHack has more soul

I remember discovering Nethack as my first roguelike, quickly discovered what SLASH'EM was and would start scum after learning about it on a doppleganger wizard to get ring of polymorph control and rape the game

But pity what happened to Amybluescreenofdeath (got kicked out of the Nethack community for being offensive by having crossdressers in her fork)

The main problem with Axes is you don't want to be in situations where they're good. However, you will be in situations where they're good frequently, and the difference in single-target DPS isn't especially substantial. The main penalty compared to Maces is that Maces take less training to get to min delay, the damage difference isn't stark, especially since Eveningstars are very rare.

I actually think axes do give one massive benefit - the bad situations can be good sometimes
Like being in melee with 5 melee NPCs? Bad
Being in melee with 2 melee NPCs and 2 casters? Good because you can rape the casters along with the melee ones

Yeah, and moving away from enemies is often a bad prospect. The point is more that you should try to avoid these situations to begin with. Always lure into corridors and try to fight 1v1 whenever possible.

axes are beast on qazlal
i've splatted a few battleaxe towershield formicid fighters of qazlal in vaults 5 but they are pretty fun

Man, I fucking love FoFi of Qazlal. One of my favorite builds. That's another one I've had that I've never quite beaten the entire game with, died in Tomb once. I've always loved being a stat monster that deals with the bullshit head-on and that's exactly what this combo is about.

i recently learned the power of passwall which has made me start playing earth elemental
the early game is pretty painful but you can just dump points into strength and end up just as beefy in the lategame
of course doesn't help you for vaults or zot which are the hardest branches for a 3 rune fofiqaz

Scroll of Fog + Summon Elementals is probably my favorite thing about Qazlal, if you aren't utilizing that, check it out.

What's funny is when roguesloppers say shit like this and mean it sincerely while playing some of the lowest-IQ garbage that has been simplified again and again such that it is no longer fit to bear the "roguelike" badge. Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is one of countless examples.
Roguelikes have truly become the very definition of pic related as applied to video game design and roguesloppers' eyes are too covered in sludge from years of the genre getting worse and worse to see it.

You could just say what you're getting at. Your problem is food being removed. The best argument I've seen against it is that it was a further balancing factor on spells that hasn't appropriately been compensated for. Got anything else?

I started playing DCSS when it still had hunger mechanics, it's crazy how much it's been streamlined since then. Path of Achra showed me just how much more it could streamlined though, Path of Achra is the true MiFi holding tab experience. DCSS still has a decent amount of complexity once you've seen just how simple things can actually be.

Anon, just because a bunch of literal drooling retards in the past 15 years aid 'oooh rng = roguelike me make game' doesn't make true

Actual roguelikes are a risk management strategy and puzzle genre
NTA and while I do hate the fact the devs of DC:SS are basically catering solely to the retards who play online and want 'muh high score', food being removed was neither good or bad
It was just an early game problem and by the time you got to Lair, you had enough food unless you were playing something like a spriggan caster in which case, you were slightly fucked sometimes so I think the best solution would have been: spriggans can generate slightly more non-meat when playing

I started in 0.5 or whenever Deep Dwarf was added. Felt like at that stage and with more fun stuff added instead of being taken away they were goin for the 'yes, there's lots of options, some are challenge options, have fun'
And now it seems like they'll remove anythign that isn't liked by people who play tournaments

I started playing in 0.28. I think they made Transmutations better. People liked having Blade Hands from the beginning because it was a free win button, that was bad design. It was also bad to have limited transition prospects without it, which was the state the class was in around 0.28. Since the Talisman rework, they expanded early and mid-game options significantly and in every game I've played since there are plenty of endgame Talismans to choose from which seems better than them being shoved into a couple of books instead.

i think the "it goes against the spirit of a roguelike" argument is a fine one
its like if you could (while out of combat) freely shop or grab items from tiles you have previously stood on without travelling to them. its essentially the same thing and cuts down on busywork but takes away a little nuance and moves the game closer to being slay the spire and not a nethack clone

Problem with talismans is they're effectively an 'i win' button for most problems now. All you need is UC for most of them and even then you don't need high level SS for most shit
It's still the blade hands problem, just made worse imo

makes it like slay the spire

stating this is a good thing

So you're a troll

I never beat zAngband after a few hundred hours. The balance in that mod is fucking fucked. Even if you savescum you will still be blasted with bullshit.

(got kicked out of the Nethack community for being offensive by having crossdressers in her fork)

Isn't supporting crossdressers progressive? It's opposing them that gets people canceled.

he doesn't know

But no, it's 'bad' since it's fetisizing trannies or some shit

Anyway she got booted for the Transvestite role since it was 'offensive' and she refused to rename it

That's like kicking out an old black dude for using the word 'negro'.
Anyway, looking up that name gets zero results on google. Could you throw me a link so I can read about her?

Struck a nerve huh?

Nah, she's not a tranny. She's an actual woman
She put it in because she was fucking in a load of shit into SLEX
and it's AmyBSOD but I think outside of like one forum she's offline due to the insane amount of fuckery she got over the transvestite role

in fairness, the role starts with a little girl as a pet so she knew what she was doing which is funny

I have no idea how people find number crunching math bullshit fun.

even for skilled players most runs will be a dud due to poor RNG. Shattered Pixel Dungeon felt the least rng reliant as I felt that I could win a higher percentage of games.

Nah. It's pure skill otherwise people wouldn't be able to streak wins with random combos so well.

SLEX

What's that?

The number crunching or RNG isn't the issue, it's that a lot of roguelikes eventually boil down to a test of your attention span since there's a billion little annoying things you can do to avoid dying but you won't feel like doing 99% of them
If a roguelike takes more than 1-2 hours to beat, you'll improve your winrate considerably by taking breaks to avoid falling into autopilot, but that is lame as hell

DC:SS is aiming to take the RNG out of it that makes runs 'unwinnable' so people who do tournaments can get their streaks

Realistically, you can see utter bullshit in the old versions and it was fun since you too had utter bullshit

The best example is Death's Door. It's the most bullshit spell in the game. It's literally a fucking 'I'm invincible for several turns' and won't ever be removed because it's the 'fuck you game, I'm bad and want another try' that 'high level' tournament winners 'need'

I just realized, it means Slash 'Em Xtended

What's the most similar game to CDDA and Dwarf Fortress' adventure mode? I really like the roguelike + open sandbox elements. Since the genre is full of pretty niche titles I just wonder if there's something else that could scratch the itch that I haven't found yet
I beat Caves of Qud years ago but I never liked it that much

Tome has an overworld

it's AmyBSOD

look her up

reason why game was removed:

Pedophillia

That's a bit different than what you said
Though I'm not sure how you even have sex in Nethack.

I've never beaten it either, but I've had fun failing.

Tells anon to pick Minotaur

Doesn't also tell him to pick Boegh

Orcssiah is the funniest runs you can have in DCSS

pedophilia

Because that's what trannies claimed
It was removed because of the fact she poked fun at trannies being legit pedos and they got upset

you can try to mount a succubus too

rolled a demigod necromancer, whst do i do when i lvl up

Beogh is even worse now
The spells they get are shit, you onl get three followers max and they have like 50 HP at most

duels

When the fuck was that an oka thing? I just remember him having two buffs and dropping you weapons/ammo

you only get three followers max

Fucking WHY? The best part was having a literal army at your beck and call. What the fuck is with this dev team and making every update worse?

Minotaur of fucking Boegh

since when you can play as an orc Jesus while not being an orc? first they removed lava orcs and now this

you can try to mount a succubus too

You'd think that would be normal, after all what else are foocubuses for?

I'm a retard that somehow conflated the two. I am very tired, please understand.

streamlining
devs basically just remove everything because muh tournaments and then dicksuckers like the fag in this very thread defend it

Because, it's all about the score, friendo
Beogh wasn't really viable for extended streaking so we made them (since y'know, gotta be DEI now) more 'fun' by making it so you don't use his fucking abilities

Last update (I think or the one before hand) destroyed Beogh and Hill Orcs to replace them with Mountain Dwarves and Beogh is now 'god of pariahs' or some shit and gives you up to three shitty level 50hp followers

Stealing your shit

Stealing your shit

They don't even give you a little tug job first?

Has anyone tried Demon? It's based on SMT and having a little party has gotten me very invested. Game could do with some more demon variety, but this guy is working on like 3 other games or some shit.
Been having fun, can't get past Tower:5 though.

The best DCSS player has a 60+ winstreak with some randomly generated combos and some downright purposefully bad combos as well, and this is across around 10 versions. High skill leading to a consistent winrate is one of the most appealing parts of DCSS.

The nuance has to be meaningful. That's why I brought up the spell example. If you can entirely circumvent the downsides of the nuance with good play, they might as well not exist, other than as a noob trap, and DCSS' design document to begin with was always aiming for this sort of simplification of what they'd call busywork mechanics.

What makes Shapeshifting any different from any other high-end magical school in this regard? All of them get "I win" buttons. The difference is they have to be managed by MP and also cost Spellcasting on-top of another skill but they're also massive AOEs that mostly infallibly work. Shapeshifters still have to manage combat on an individual level which a huge draw of spellcasting is not having to do that. In my view this puts them at least on par with other melee dudes, and the opportunity cost becomes the lost equipment slots. Though they still ultimately kept around the "I win" extended button with just having to invest in Shapeshifting instead of Necromancy.

isn't this one of those "politically-correct" games like CDDA?

I don't really like DCSS. TOME is way funner. One of my favorites lately has been Shadow of the Wyrm tho. That ones pretty good.
What's your most obscure roguelike, anons?

SS is 'I win' from more or less the starting class
You lose a weapon and shield and armor with stormform but it's literally going to carry most classes through endgame and only needs max skill then
They're effectively better melee dudes
Yes, all gods are gender neutral and you will be banned if you say otherwise

I've seen a lot of dcss mentions recently, what gives? Anyway I had a funny run where I found manifold assault and maxwell's thermic engine, shit was cash.

But they aren't better melee dudes for large portions of the game, and even questionably later. Is Storm Form that much better than an Axe guy when you have significantly worse defenses? There's a trade-off here for sure. Also, there's an unreliable aspect to Shapeshifting in getting Talismans. They're weighted well across an entire game but you still might not see the one you need for a long time.

Talismans tend to drop practically all of them
Multiple times, as in over the course of about 50 games, at least 40 of them I've seen storm form by D:10, I've seen statue form, death form around 30 times before D:10 too

Ultimately it's a skill they know they need for Death form otherwise extended would be 'impossible' for the tournament players

Remember, the only reason they put in SS was to give tournament players easier access to torment resist without relying on methods like having to worship Kiku

Have they removed any new races recently?

Of course!
Also, the correct term is 'species' since using 'race' isn't very DEI!!!!

Ghoul (Gh) - Removed in 0.33
Vampire (Vp) - Removed in 0.33
Hill Orc (HO) - Removed in 0.32
Meteoran (Me) - Removed in 0.31
Ogre (Og) - Removed in 0.31
Palentonga (Pa) - Removed in 0.30
Deep Dwarf (DD) - Removed in 0.29
Halfling (Ha) - Removed in 0.27
Centaur (Ce) - Removed in 0.26
High Elf (HE) - Removed in 0.20
Sludge Elf (SE) - Removed in 0.13
Mountain Dwarf (MD) - Removed in 0.10
Gnome (Gm - formerly Gn before the addition of Gnolls) - Removed in 0.5
Grey Elf (GE) - Removed in 0.5
Ogre-mage (OM) - Merged with Ogres in 0.5
Hill Dwarf (HD) - Removed in 0.3
Elf (El) - Removed in 0.3

Vampire and Ghoul offed

wtf, they were pretty distinct

whom are you quoting? surely not me
i was implying it becoming more like slay the spire is a bad thing. it is a roguelike of a sort, but one where you are a lot more on-rails
in slay the spire you don't choose what branch to go to. you can't stop right before vaults 5 to go clear the depths then come back and do vaults 5. that type of nuance is what makes the game fun

I'm new to this gsme, but i dislke the dei aspect, any other none dei aspects?

replaced with revenant and poltergeist
Both are shit

sts

roguelike of sorts

shut the fuck up, please. This is about roguelikes. Not fucking 'roguelites' or whatever shit they get called

erm, no

Got a little farther. I definitely suggest you guys check this game out. You can make a lot of fun builds from enemy skills

Trunk isn't worth a shit, and hasn't been since 0.21. Arguably 0.18.

Looks pretty fun, I'll check it out.

Anon... that's from the wiki. What the fuck does a beta version have to do with pastversions

i understand this train of thought.

being bad at food management makes you lose

food management is very easy once you understand it (the hunger clock is so weak it barely matters, so you shouldn't spend too much time thinking about it))

food management is difficult for new players to understand intuitively because it seems like an important feature of the game but it is not

i just see removing food from all races, including several that have mechanics revolving around food, as strange.
most of DCSS's design revolves around mechanics that impact a small subset of the builds in the game. so having food (or a similar type of clock) only matter for a few races feels fine. mostly useless permafood would fit in great next to centaur barding, giant rocks, and giant clubs

shut the fuck up, please. This is about roguelikes. Not fucking 'roguelites' or whatever shit they get called

95 iq reddit regurgitated opinion
you can be elitist about roguelikes without crying wolf every single time someone mentions a game that's not one

is this gsme mp?

For me, it's and this was years ago

I think it'd be better for those races most impacted by the change to have specific changes to replicate those sort of lost nuances, then. I agree that there is nuance in the gameplay lost. I think the game can support the best features of the nuance in other ways, though, and I would also agree they haven't done enough yet to address this.

Bloat: The Game
More bloated than Terraria

You play bcrawl or something?

Wow that's a lot of bad advice.

Tell me you're a tournament player without telling me you're a tournament player

Let me guess, manual explore, never pull more than one enemy at a time, use stones to pull kobolds from bats because 'le danger'?

I tab everything and die in Lair branches. Oka is good btw

tab

explains everything

I macro my main attack spell to F1 if I'm playing "caster"

I always stop tabbing after about dungeon 5

Sounds boring. If a character is weak, they deserve to die.

No

Really? I can reliably get to lair entrance tabbing. There's nothing that can really fuck you over in the early dungeon except a few encounters and even then you can stair camp if push comes to shove