I don't understand the obsession with gameplay, almost all of my favorite games come from the qualities game A has

Gameplay is the most important element of games. Level design is a important part of gameplay for most games. People literally play, and enjoy games that the premise is "You have a shitty car that barely works, and you run errands, then occasionally rally race." because of it's mechanics.

Left are JRPGs except the gameplay is 5/10.
Which gets tedious halfway in.

By trying to convince someone else that they're wrong you're contrarian and therefore agree with my position

my favorite 3D platformer as a kid was Toy Story 2 because I liked the level themes and the music even if Spyro and Mario played better

don't like FPS games in general but I loved BioShock because of the premise and the context

don't care for FromSlop but I liked Sekiro because they do japanese mythology better than western fantasy

can't get into sci-fi games regardless of gameplay because I don't like sci-fi

9.5 gameplay

UI is an afterthought

Not sure about that, if you mean only in terms of looking boring then I can get behind that, but UI elements are fundamental to gameplay, which information you can keep track of and how it's delivered affects how you actually play, especially if you are going in blind.
That said, the whole comparison is disingenuous as hell because you should lower gameplay for A as much as you did with everything else for B, which means you are picking between a walking sim and an actual game.

People literally play, and enjoy games that the premise is "You have a shitty car that barely works, and you run errands, then occasionally rally race." because of it's mechanics.

No that's more of a premise thing as you yourself said, even if the mechanics were worse people would still be into it for the premise

When I was young I preferred story rich games, these days I just want to play games and enjoy myself. Stories in games these days being what they are is also a big reason I don't want to play them.
And for that reason OP, I prefer good gameplay with good music and sound.

kek

DANKE HERR DOKTOR

you should lower gameplay for A as much as you did with everything else for B, which means you are picking between a walking sim and an actual game.

That's not true, 5/10 gameplay games and 9.5/10 gameplay games can appear to play almost identically, but the first one could have hidden tedium, non-viable playstyles, cryptic progression, outright bugs etc that drop its score significantly

art, sound, writing, and level design are gameplay.
You can't separate them like that.

retarded faggots. if you want a good story go read the fucking billions of books that are available. DURR I PLAYU GAEIMU FOR DU STOWY
fucking retarded cunts

art, sound, writing, and level design are gameplay.

They're not, they can reinforce the gameplay but any gameplay purpose they can provide can be replicated with contextless placeholders, prototypes exist for a reason

It's just an easy tryhard thing to say. Fact is the best games are full package games. If all you have is gameplay, that's not enough to be a classic

reading books for the story

Retard faggot if you want a good story go live an interesting life, I read books for the prose

me impacting the game state

I don't want to impact the "game state" if the world of the game doesn't draw me in. If the world isn't cool, why would I even want to interact with it?

Witcher 3 is like a solid 5/10 in every category.

What an absurdly soulless opinion.

the premise clearly states that the B title is generic considering b oth A & B are the same genre & loop.
So by your argument you are discrediting A aswell, you are not applicable to this gaming dilemma

Not sure I can agree with that, but I guess we would need to define what exactly gameplay means. If it's used as very generic umbrella term for how the game plays out, then sure I guess, but it's very possible to have 10/10 mechanics, controls, etc. but in a game with grindy requirements or other form of tedium tied to progression. That creates a game that's fun to play once you get around some hurdles which is still better than a game that has no hurdles but never makes you invested in its mechanics.

fat brown powerdyke with purple light effects is my favorite slop genre

I don't understand the obsession with gameplay

It's a game anon, gameplay is the most important thing , if the gameplay is shit then there's no point

Video games are the objectively best storytelling medium though.

You can have the same gameplay genres and loops in worlds of vastly differing interesting qualities

So you like COD and FIFA but don't like FF7?

I don't like any of the three, actually.

All of those have shit gameplay

CoD and FIFA dont have good gameplay.
Materia system mogs those games easily.

I think people are too stuck on the idea of a game being "good", gameplay wise. Games can have "shit" gameplay, but as long as it facilitates something interesting, the game can be good as a whole.
Like, King's Field plays like shit by common modern metrics, but it's still cool because its gameplay systems drive a certain feeling and tone and you can trace how its technique develop over the rest of Fromsoft's catalog. If you were rating purely on gameplay alone it's be a low rating, but it's still cool anyways.

Anyone who thinks aesthetic qualities like sound and visuals don't matter at all is also coping hard, by the way. There's never been a good game with shit music or a great game with shit visuals.

COD and FIFA have great gameplay though, what could possibly make you not like them

COD and FIFA have great gameplay

[citation needed]

CoD and FIFA dont have good gameplay

This is cope

Can't you read what I said, dumbfuck?

shitty slow auto aim console shooter and retard RNG shots gacha slop

you are the one coping. straight up trash made for the lowest common denominator.

Why would I like any of these? All have shit gameplay

They're both skill-based games that embody their genres, what gameplay issue could you possibly raise with them (barring MTX in the new releases, luckily being yearly franchises they have decades of non-MTX games)

COD and FIFA have good gameplay, and under your definition you should have no reason to dislike them

shitty slow auto aim console shooter

So does every game made primarily for consoles have bad gameplay then?

retard RNG shots

So is every game with RNG elements bad gameplay then?

gacha slop

Just play one before the gacha elements were introduced

straight up trash made for the lowest common denominator.

Just like Nintendo games but people keep praising them as peak gameplay

So what, you can't enjoy a movie? If I call a great movie a video game, suddenly you can't enjoy it because it has no gameplay? How the fuck is this supposed to work? A great story is always a great story, a great song is always a great song. Don't give a fuck if it's wrapped in an interactive package or not

every line by line reply post is garbage with no exception.

This is cope

COD and FIFA have good gameplay

COD and FIFA have shit gameplay.

no argument

I'm glad you acknowledge you've been btfo

They're both skill-based games that embody their genres

Almost all games are based on one form of skill or another you fucking moron. What an absolute non argument. Literally reeks of a teenager trying to act intelligent.

So does every game made primarily for consoles have bad gameplay then?

Every first person shooter game, yes.

They don't though, you're just having trouble reconciling your poorly thought out opinions on the importance of gameplay with the fact you can only fault COD and FIFA for their non-gameplay aspects

true gameplay isn't everything, some visual novels have zero gameplay and they still manage to be more enjoyable than any recent slops

Thinking gameplay is important doesn't mean somebody has to like every single genre.
For me I don't play CoD and FIFA simply because I'm not interested in FPS and football sims.

Almost all games are based on one form of skill or another you fucking moron.

No they're not lmao, you don't even play games

Every first person shooter game, yes.

Why the distinction, basically every genre except 3D platformers controls better on PC and would have better gameplay if designed primarily for PC, sounds like you're being a hypocrite

A great soundtrack can elevate a mediocre game. No great game has bad soundtrack.

They don't though

They do though

So gameplay isn't the most important part of a game then? Given that you wouldn't be interested in playing 10/10 gameplay FPS or sports games

Not really though

Aside from the fact I don't think they are 10/10 anything, that's like saying food doesn't have to taste good because I don't like literally every single flavor.

Yes really though

So taste is the most important aspect of games, like OP is claiming?

Nope, you're just coping because you're experiencing cognitive dissonance

Taste is the most important aspect of food, and gameplay is the most important aspect of games.
It's possible to dislike specific flavors and gameplay styles regardless, that does not create any contradictory beliefs. Your argument would only work if somebody claimed they enjoy football sims purely for gameplay reasons but then hated one that does have good football sim gameplay.

Yup, shit gameplay all around.

If you think gameplay is the most important aspect of games, there is no reason to play a 8/10 gameplay game in one genre over a 10/10 gameplay game in another genre, the only reason you might do that is taste, meaning taste is more important than gameplay

If you dont think aesthetics are that important, give me your favorite game, take all the art and music and sound design and make it trash, and see if you like it still. Story isn't that important in the grand scheme of things, but aesthetics are.

"Gameplay is all that matters" has always been a sovlless nigger midwit opinion. I don't care how fun your game is if it isn't cool and is gay and retarded I'm never going to play it

there is no reason to play a 8/10 gameplay game in one genre over a 10/10 gameplay game in another genre

That's retarded because it would assume gameplay is not important purely because nobody can like every single genre, which is not a realistic demand.
There is a reason why things get categorized and comparisons work better when you share more categories in common. This doesn't apply to vidya exclusively, you also categorize music genre and you won't hear anyone bitching about somebody claiming music has to sound good but then doesn't listen to literally every single genre.

why are you wasting time on this gay sophist

Cause I'm bored and waiting for my shit to get repaired for a week now.

you should watch jackie chans wheels on meals instead.
its kino.

Kek. Nah I will go play >console games in a while instead.

But if genre matters more than gameplay then gameplay isn't the most important

I'd like to play both of those games

the real answer isn't that left or right is better, but that having one game like left and one game like right is better than having two of either.

A game that doesn't have good gameplay is throwing away the one advantage games have as a medium over others. Believing it's the only thing that truly matters is excessive but to say its okay for gameplay to be thoroughly mediocre or unengaging as long as everything else is good misses the point of being a game in the first place. Just make a movie or a comic or something else at that point if the gameplay is going to feel like more of a concession or an after thought.

thanks doc

This. A game without great gameplay is a movie that simply tells you everything but doesn't show you anything

You could say gameplay is derived from the game's genre so you are required to appreciate the latter before the former even matters to you.
All FPS games are about shooting things in a 3D space viewed from first person perspective, but what if this kind of core gameplay simply does not appeal to you? No matter how good and refined my gameplay is, people who don't like FPS aren't going to care. Does that automatically mean they don't think gameplay is important? Obviously not, because maybe they are playing good platformers instead and seek them out based on gameplay elements.

gracias doctor

I don't understand the obsession with gameplay

It's because you'd rather watch a movie and are only into "gaming" so you have something to talk about with other idiots.

5/10 soundtrack

I'm offended by your post.

aren't I cool hating the popular thing

I'm cool right?

fuck off

Only song I remember from it was Gaunter O Dimm's theme, that was pretty good.

>don't care for FromSlop but I liked Sekiro because they do japanese mythology better than western fantasy

That's a bad example because Sekiro gameplay is the best of FromSoft games.

Game A is Ghost of Tsushima. Game B is Tetris. GoT puts me to sleep. Tetris makes me forget to sleep

t.Friendless neet
CoD and EAFC have great gameplay, there is a good reason why both are so popular. Keep playing kinokusoge if that make you feel special, I guess.

This but literally unironically

Normalfags will never be welcome here, go back.

I can't think of a game with great gameplay that completely tanks in every other aspect with absolutely nothing else to enjoy about it.

BotW

Just going off the criteria in the OP, BotW/TotK has nice ambience and locations. The sparse music, when it plays in certain locations, is hardly 0/10 either.

Video games encompass a lot of things, even visual novels. Look at how in Japan, where visual novels were born in the 1980s, it's common to consider them in lists of best games for any platform, while in the West they never make the lists and the fags keep saying they're not video games.
Gameplay will be more or less important depending on the intended experience.

gameplay sucks in that game though

It's easier for normies to discuss story and visuals than it is for them to discuss gameplay

9.9/10 Gameplay could blow your fucking mind but it wouldn't matter if there's nothing to use it on/with. It doesn't matter what the Content looks or sounds like, but what you can do with it. Story*, music**, and visuals do play a part AND they enhance the game (especially in certain genres where some of those things become the Content), but it is the world itself and how you interact with it that matters.

Gameplay is King, but a King is worthless if he nothing to rule over.
Content is the king's territory and people, and he needs them to rule.
Visuals, Sounds, Story, it's nice to have lush green meadows and extravagant castles, but what matters is making the peasants happy.
Games are an interactive media. The interaction must be the priority no matter the nature of game, action, strategy, puzzle, *visual novel, **rhythm game, whatever.

Literally every single turn-based game, ever.

Game feel is an important part of gameplay. You can't have shit UI and sfx but have good gameplay.
Also is A an IGN "7" or an actual 7/10? Because you're basically comparing a game that is above average in literally every regard to a game which only has the advantage in gameplay and even then you kneecap it to 9.5 rather than 10 to intentionally be a faggot.

The most memorable gaming experiences I've had are driven by the gameplay. Stories are good too, it's just there's only like 2 in the entire industry which justify playing the game themselves (and those games also have good gameplay, because they're made by passionate people with a clear creative vision)

turn based game

7/10

Tokyo Mirage Sessions#FE is basically just a slot machine in terms of gameplay, but the aesthetics and visuals make it really enjoyable.
I don't think any games in category 2 exist. Maybe fire emblem engage? It's not perfect, but it was criticised for most things listed in #2

BotW/TotK has nice ambience and locations.

Debatable, I personally find them to feel like they're built out of marketplace assets

The sparse music, when it plays in certain locations, is hardly 0/10 either.

OP image just says generic, that's not 0/10, and Zelda hasn't had notable music since Wind Waker

Then what's the point in claiming gameplay is the most important if you're willing to ignore 10/10 gameplay entries in one genre in favor of 7 or 8/10 entries in another

OP is equally willing to ignore 9.5/10 gameplay games in favor of 7s or 8s, just due to creative reasons rather than genre ones but both come down to taste, you believe the same thing

I think you have the most cohesive view here. It's impossible to have a game with good secondary details and awful gameplay, because if they had a good vision they would've tied the secondary details into the gameplay.
I.E. Darkest Dungeon is objectively pretty shitty on a mechanical level, but it perfectly matches the tone everything else is tied up into.

Normalfags have been welcome here for over a decade, you should've complained when Nintendofags, Soulsfags, and indiefags started invading, now it's too late

Surely you mean Japanese ones, western turn based games have a strategykino pedigree and are almost always better than realtimeslop

There could be a very few examples of B provided B is a multiplayer session game - however even in this case it would eventually lose its attractiveness for all but several autists, who would've happen to cling onto this particular game as their personal obsession.
Most of the time a videogame is an adventure - which consists of various equally important parts, not only gameplay. Up to a certain extension parts can compensate flaws in each other, but there is always a certain limit, when a game would look too ugly, sound too earrapy, play way, WAY too buggy and clunky, have its plot or dialogues too disgusting etc.

dude, have you tried like... civilization?

bro it's like primo kino

paradox? did they make command and conquer or something?

Spyro isn't really a good example of a game B, mario 64 kind of is though since a lot of the levels are a mishmash of generic assets with no rhyme or reason

I was thinking more along the lines of CRPGs, or tactics games Jagged Alliance and UFO: Enemy Unknown

No, I don't complain about people who like games.
Normalfags should fuck off for their herd mentality shit.

COD and sports games are games, or do you throw a shitfit anytime someone brings up Mario Kart or Mario Strikers

Nobody ever believes otherwise because there is no person who literally enjoys every single "10/10 gameplay" entry.
Not because they dislike gameplay or don't think it's important, but because it's unreasonable to expect anyone to like literally every single form of gameplay ever made. That in no way diminishes the statement since I will pick a platformer with better gameplay than another while not playing sport sims at all.

I'm just saying that you're agreeing with OP, you're both willing to dismiss 10/10 gameplay games because you don't consider gameplay to be the end-all-be-all of games and prioritize other things based on your taste

Except the "other thing" is still gameplay style in my case, and I will generally gravitate towards what offers the better gameplay out of genres I like, so I don't agree with OP.
That's basically everyone who claims they value gameplay the highest, assuming they mean it. There is nobody who ever said it to imply they play literally every single genre and appreciate all of them equally.

But it's still entirely up to preference rather than some objective pure gameplay quality

There's no difference between OP disregarding e.g. a 10/10 COD because it's a bland generic military shooter, and you disregarding it because you don't like FPS games, both of you are being subjective instead of holding up some objective standard, you're just being subjective about what you're subjective about

objective pure gameplay quality

Does not exist whatsoever. Even assuming we are all talking about the same genre, then most people will end up disagreeing with each other on what exactly makes for better gameplay.
Your whole argument is operating on a completely false premise that claiming to be "gameplay first" implies the rating will be full objective as if that's even possible when rating any form of media at all, unless you are restricting yourself to raw data like sales, word count, etc.

Holy fucking retards kek

Where did you get your medical license???
You've to give them an actual dosage

There's never been a good game with shit music or a great game with shit visuals.

Zoom zoom
(you are wrong and fucking retarded btw zoomoid)

have you tried watching movies? It seems you would enjoy that more videogames

What do you do in games if you don't play them?

It's impossible to have a game with good secondary details and awful gameplay

You haven't played many games if you think that

Do you watch movies based on how interesting they seem or based on acting and cinematography? An interesting premise and story can carry serviceable acting and cinematography, and the same goes for games

I'd rather clunk my way through an interesting game world, that's pleasing to look at and backed by memorable music, than have amazing "play" and nothing notable to experience with it

If objectively good gameplay doesn't exist, what's the point of prioritizing it over everything else

Baba is You
Quake 3 Arena
Asseto Corsa
Dirt Rally
Factorio
Rimworld
Intravenous
One Way Heroics
Noita

I'd pick A any day of the week.

Gameplay has to be in service of something, if there's nothing interesting about the game, I'm not going to play it. Take a game like Celeste, people fap it off over "muh gameplay" but it's only in service of moving a tranny up a mountain or something. No thanks.

The subject of a game has to be worthwhile to get me to consider playing it, then it's a matter of how well the gameplay is executed that colours my final opinion of a game. If the premise is really cool, but the gameplay is only mediocre then I might suffer through it to the end (e.g Lords of Magic or Redneck Rampage), but there are games I've dropped because the gameplay was too bad to save it (e.g Sin or Mafia 1930).

A truly great game executes both well, rather than compromising on its vision.

You're coping so hard it's unreal. Why are you pretending to be retarded and not understand what anon is saying? Is getting some online pissfight "win" so important to you you're willing to disregard all sense of dignity?

name one (1)

dude what if literally only gameplay was good for a game

I'd probably still play it over the mid game.
Also usually games aren't dogshit in every aspect but gameplay, there's one or two things they do well beyond that. Why are you arguing for settling for a mediocre playing game just because the other aspects are somehow more important to you anyway?

I'm sorry you can't come to terms with your cognitive dissonance

No aspect of any other media is as impactful as gameplay is to video games. The entire point of a video game is to play it, you can't just skip over that like you can with say lyrics for a song or whatever. Saying you'd sooner play a game with bad gameplay but good other aspects over a game with good gameplay but bad other aspects shows that you truly don't appreciate what a video game is supposed to be.

The same reason there is no objectively good music, writing, and so on. In the case of games, it's because the gameplay is unique to the medium, if you end up appreciating something for basically everything else but find the gameplay uninteresting at best or tedious at worst, then it makes you wonder why couldn't it be a movie. If you have this issue with every single vidya you ever played, then it makes you wonder why you you aren't watching movies.

Too many JRPGs to count

So your "gameplay is the most important part of games" argument boils down to "I like games that I like"?

Prove me wrong, by posting an example, then.
Protip: you can't.

This is how you find out you have no soul.

Read the posts a little better next time. You got several explanations as for why prioritizing gameplay in vidya makes sense.
Everyone likes the game they like, but that's not the point here.

Factorio and Intravenous look and sound awesome though.

To add more to my own thoughts, people in the "muh gameplay" camp don't seem to understand that part of what makes video games unique as a medium is the amount of interaction they afford to the vision of the creator. You can't get that with a movie or a book, to explore and interact with it on a personal level.

That's not to say that ultra-linear "muh story" games are good by default or are better, they often come from the realm of embarrassed writers who wish they were working on movies or TV shows, and see gameplay as an obstacle to telling their story, rather than seeing it as a way for the player to engage with their vision as completely as possible.

I don't think any games in category 2 exist. Maybe fire emblem engage?

I think Fire Emblem 3 houses vs Fire Emblem Engage is a REALLY good example of what OP is talking about. 3 Houses has a lot of fundamental issues with the gameplay compared to Engage, but it’s by far the more popular game and Edelgard continues to drive discussion

Visuals are just as important as gameplay since that's how all of the information is conveyed to me. Bad or boring visuals means a bad or boring game.

enjoyment of game is heavily contingent on The Discussion(tm)

To this day you can't convince me this isn't ridiculous
I think it's the same crowd who need to know their favorite game is trending on steam and social media

Thanks doc

lol what? The audio and visuals in those games are just merely serviceable. Factorio you don't even register the visuals and sprite work after a certain scale it all just becomes prefabs and mechanical drawings.

or a great game with shit visuals.

Game A all the fucking way.
bad games with soul are my guilty pleasure

So if you can dismiss entire genres with 10/10 gameplay because "you don't like them", why is the Spyro vs Mario 64 debate still a thing?

Spyro fans claim the beautiful locations and music make up for the simple gameplay, Mario fans claim 64's freedom of movement is superior gameplay making it the better game despite the weak creative aspects, what's to stop Spyro fans from simply claiming they don't like the "genre" of "free 3D platforming movement" and declaring their game the winner? I really don't see the utility of your interpretation of the importance of gameplay

When did I say that you retard don’t put words in my mouth. The point is that 3 Houses makes a stronger impression on most people despite having lesser gameplay because the story, characters, and setting are stronger

I don't understand how anyone who enjoys Undertale can think it has shit visuals. It has a really strong, committed cartoon style, with a cool black-and-white battle aesthetic and effects. Shit visuals are what you see in RPGmaker games, "hire this man" tier asset flips, and low budget JRPGs - game where everything clashes and is often strangely detailed where it doesn't need to be, and there's no uniting visual style.
It's not something that is just..."simple."

UT is hard carried by its "internet fandom" appeal, in isolation it's a very weak game on every front

The art being "consistent" doesn't make it good, but it makes it "good enough".
Toby literally said if you make the art crappier, it will have a stronger impact when the game turns out to be good than something that starts off looking good, because it lowers people's expectations, and Undertale fans will still throw themselves off a building claiming the art is a masterpiece. Halo effect at its peak form.

redefining words and making up genres to "win" the argument

Fuck off already.

I'm sorry anon but you haven't been able to defend any of the holes I poked in your interpretation, which convinces me you didn't really think things true before claiming them

It has the most 11/10 ambience of any game since shadow of the Collosus. The world is one of the best to explore of all time, the story is actually interesting for once in a Zelda game (even if its told through flashbacks and memory loss) and it still has the usual puzzle/combat/explore cycle of a Zelda game. The game is loved because it does everything in a 7/10 way that really boost each other up to make them feel 8-9/10 in practice.

I don't understand how anyone who enjoys Undertale can think it has shit visuals

Because you're a disingenuous retard being dishonest for the sake of argument.

Again, trying to redefine words isn't an argument. You are getting desperate

You literally said

3H has fundamental issues with gameplay

but it's popular

one if its character is talked about quite a lot

You said this right? Am I characterizing you incorrectly?
Even if (you) didn't personally say it here, let's not pretend naked appeal to popularity arguments aren't essential to 3Hfaggotry. It's so frequent to defend the game on the basis of its sales numbers or internet popularity.

Undertake's visuals aren't shit, they're amateur. If you don't understand the difference you're too retarded for this conversation.

makes you wonder why couldn't it be a movie. If you have this issue with every single vidya you ever played, then it makes you wonder why you you aren't watching movies.

I really hate this fucking meme argument

what do you care about then film’s score? Just listen to radio. Good story but bad visuals? Just read a book

Nintendo games are too repetitive and predictable to have good ambience, exploration, or story

You know for a fact they don't give a shit about any of those which makes it impossible to immerse yourself in them, and they prove it over and over again with each new game, fucking TOTK retcons BOTW for fuck's sake

Sorry you got proven wrong, in the future try thinking your claims through before posting them online to be picked apart

It has genuinely good visuals, I don't care what the creator thinks about it. The final form of the true evil was genuinely shocking and grotesque. A less creative artist would have just made it some generic demonic pixel art monster or something, and missed the point. I'm not even an Undertalefag if you can believe it, I played the game once a decade ago. But its visuals are memorable and a big part of its success.

for the sake of argument

and you have no argument

3H has fundamental issues with gameplay

it is more popular than Engage because other elements of the game are stronger

even today people discuss the story and characters of 3 Houses despite not being gameplay related

This is not saying “3 Houses is a better game because people talk about Edelgard” and I’m not even making a judgement about which is the better game. It’s an observation that most people don’t judge games purely on a gameplay basis.

It genuinely doesn't, it thrives off of the ironic low effort online meme culture and creepypasta culture, both of which are fads and not legitimate art directions

Not even that anon but wow that’s a lot of buzzwords

Yes UT's creative aspects are the equivalent to buzzwords, you're getting it

You're just going to keep insisting it doesn't so whatever. Cartoon appeal is "legitimate." It's also legitimate to go for "low effort but good" instead of "high effort but bad", that's what art direction is all about. I'm not into the gay fandom and I've never participated in an Undertale thread. I feel like you fags would say Super Mario has bad visuals because it's an NES game. Just completely retarded and artless.

modded civ has more depth than any game you've ever liked

most people don’t judge games purely on a gameplay basis

Well of course not. They evidently judge them based on how many sales they got and how much they're talked about on reddit, too. Which I think is just absurd.

Game B would only be good if it has multiplayer. As a singleplayer experience it would be very very bad, almost a complete failure.

You want a truth nuke?

"Gameplay" INCLUDES ALL OTHER CATEGORIES.

Games with truly excellent gameplay will, for example, sync up the sound design with your in-game actions for extra satisfaction

The art will be very reactive to your actions, and will enhance your enjoyment of game mechanics (e.g. lighting flares when you use cool abilities)

You can't have forgettable trash elements and still claim to have "good gameplay". None of you can name a "10/10 gameplay" game with shitty art, shitty music, and no story because it doesn't exist. Yes, even tetris needs to make it feel satisfying.

You are taking it the wrong way. You can care about all these things, but ifsomebody tells me they only watch movies because of the soundtracks, then I would think their actual interest is music.
Likewise, if somebody goes on and on about secondary non-gameplay aspects of vidya, or even complains about the parts where only gameplay happens then I'm fairly sure they don't enjoy gaming.

Fun fact: if you have to declare yourself as the winner of an internet argument, chances are that you made a fool out of yourself.

My game needs help from its consumers because it's actually shit to mog your game

If you can't actually defend your claims with arguments, you have made a bigger fool of yourself than anyone declaring themselves the winner of internet arguments

You’re like taking the discussion out to a ridiculous extreme, OP said a 7/10 game vs a 9/10 not 0/10 vs 10/10

but ifsomebody tells me they only watch movies because of the soundtracks, then I would think their actual interest is music.

So if somebody tells you they watch movies for the plot rather than the cinematography, do you think their actual interest is books?

None of you can name a "10/10 gameplay" game with shitty art, shitty music, and no story because it doesn't exist. Yes, even tetris needs to make it feel satisfying.

Trouble with hypotheticals?

For hopefully the last time, I don't have to defend myself from trying to redefine terms.
You put forward a hypothetical where the Spyro fans are just making up shit about what genre means and how the games are categorized, all while admitting they don't like the game for gameplay reasons either way so I'm not sure what was even the point of pulling that.

I would think they like stories, not specifically books because the unique feature of that would be "writing", while plots can be delivered in many other ways including pure word-of-mouth.

It wasn't a direct answer to OP, it's part of a reply chain.
That said, I don't think OP's pic is very realistic at all. Can't think of many games that have amazing gameplay but suck in everything else.

I challenged the existence of your hypothetical with a logical argument, you ignored all of the arguments and zeroed in on my final sentence because you cannot address a single one of my points. Concession accepted, you are a nigger not me
b
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gameplay loops

Thank god I only play games and dont have to overanalyze them for my 1 hour video essays of why X game is an underrated masterpiece

just making up shit about what genre means and how the games are categorized

That's literally how all genres work, or are you going to explain how RPG can now describe 80% of the games coming out even if they have fuck all to do with games like Neverwinter Nights or Gothic in terms of gameplay

all while admitting they don't like the game for gameplay reasons

Like you admitted you don't like FPS games for gameplay reasons?

That's literally how all genres work

Not really, not my fault if you can't categorize things.

RPG can now describe 80% of the games

It can't, at best you can say "it has RPG elements" to describe character progression systems but no one is going to say SOTN is obviously the same genre of gameplay as DQ.

Like you admitted you don't like FPS games for gameplay reasons?

That's not the gotcha you think it is. I'm not trying to redefine games that might be classified as FPS while at the same time saying I liked a FPS for non-gameplay reasons.
Acting as dense as you possibly can and just trying to exhaust somebody's patience isn't an argument either btw.

Not really, not my fault if you can't categorize things.

Genres aren't objective, people make up terms to group things they think are similar

It can't, at best you can say "it has RPG elements" to describe character progression systems

So are Souls games RPGs or not? Is it realistic for someone to like RPGs but not like whatever Souls games are?

That's not the gotcha you think it is

It's the ultimate gotcha because you can't define FPS games in a way that I can't exploit to make you look stupid for the nth time in this thread

I get where you're coming from, although not for the same reasons. It's not something I'm good at explaining, but just because the game controls well doesn't necessarily make it a masterpiece. A game that feels too curated or designed can sometimes feel less fun than it should. Celeste is actually a good example because it is a good game, but something about how it's designed rubs me the wrong way, and I don't even mean the story shit. Despite trying to craft this story and the characters and all that, every challenge feels like a specifically designed setpiece, something about it feels too curated. Or something like Monster Sanctuary, which was a solid and competent game, but despite all these monsters having all sorts of different abilities and moves to differentiate themselves, everything began to blend together. It's difficult to describe and maybe I'm insane.

people make up terms to group things they think are similar

That's how language works yes.

So are Souls games RPGs or not?

Action RPGs sure.

Is it realistic for someone to like RPGs but not like whatever Souls games are?

Yeah, you could prefer turn-based RPGs or other variants.

you can't define FPS games

Maybe just google what FPS stands for.

to make you look stupid for the nth time in this thread

Lol. lmao even
The best part about dense pedantic idiots is that they genuinely think people can't see through their bullshit. But if you don't believe me, you should go up in the reply chain and see what replies you got other than mine.

It's the ultimate gotcha because you can't define FPS games in a way that I can't exploit to make you look stupid for the nth time in this thread

I’m not reading this whole convo because it’s exhausting but I can tell you are the only being a faggot just from this post

um actually there is a rare chromosomal disorder that makes some woman have XY bet you feel stupid now

species aren’t real because Buffalo and Cows can make fertile offspring despite being different species uh oh phylogeny bros I don’t feel so good

Someone is technically correct

UHM AXEUALLY!

This guy has BTFO the entire topic from start to end. It's amusing to watch.

That's how language works yes.

Which you had a problem with just now when I wanted to group Mario into a different genre or a subgenre compared to other platformers, something which Nintendo themselves did

Yeah, you could prefer turn-based RPGs or other variants.

So just like someone can dismiss action RPGs like Souls games in favor of other RPG variants, and you can dismiss FPS games as a genre, Spyro fans can dismiss Mario-likes

Maybe just google what FPS stands for.

I'd really want to see you struggle with it instead

The best part about dense pedantic idiots is that they genuinely think people can't see through their bullshit.

Sorry anon but you're yet to make 1 (one) actual argument that holds water

I can't get into games easily so I was just going to play witcher 3. But do recommend playing part 1 first?

Which you had a problem with just now

You are the one who has a problem with genres as currently established and wants to redefine them for the sake of argument, or claim it's not a valid classification because uuuhh... they are made-up words(like every other word ever).

Spyro fans can dismiss Mario-likes

If they claimed something like that, I would naturally ask what the fuck is a "Mario-like" considering Mario has games that play nothing alike. Anyone sane would reject that bullshit instantly, language is only as useful as it lets you communicate ideas coherently.

I'd really want to see you struggle with it instead

But I agree with the common definition because I'm not a subversive retard, I don't have a personal one for the sake of thinking I'm winning some argument on the internet.

Sorry anon but you're yet to make 1 (one) actual argument that holds water

You stopped doing that several posts ago and still look like a massive faggot.

Depends on your tolerance for eurojank, it's definitely one of those games you play for everything but the gameplay, but that everything else is sublime

I wouldn't call it bad, but it's something you have to learn to live with, it's less noticeable if you play on easy

You are the one who has a problem with genres as currently established and wants to redefine them for the sake of argument

People define genres, and I'm people, and besides I've already posted proof that Nintendo itself classifies Mario 64 as a different sort of game compared to other 3D Marios, let alone other 3D platformers

If they claimed something like that, I would naturally ask what the fuck is a "Mario-like" considering Mario has games that play nothing alike

Refer to the handy chart in my previous post

Anyone sane would reject that bullshit instantly, language is only as useful as it lets you communicate ideas coherently.

Like I'm rejecting your rejection of FPS games based on genre, when I'm sure you'd make a distinction for Pokemon Snap, GTA or TES in first person, Portal and other games that play like FPS games but aren't FPS games

But I agree with the common definition because I'm not a subversive retard

You agree with some vague notion of what FPS games are defined as because you're afraid of putting it into words and exposing yourself as an idiot again

The music, models/textures (aka art assets) and narrative are all an important part of the gameplay you cretin. A lot of those elements are transformative and impact each other.
You can't separate the ludo from the rest of the game, it would be like reducing a movie down to its camera movement and editing.

Same genre and gameplay loop

you say this as if the preference between A and B don't vary wildly between genres.

A is the obvious choice for RPGs or story games of any kind becuase gameplay is the last thing that matters in that genre.

where as B is the obvious choice for Action Games becuase Story and shit is always a after thought in those genres.

People like whoever made OPs pic really just don't know how to appreciate different genres.

People define genres, and I'm people

And if nobody agrees or cares of your definitions, nobody will use it.

I've already posted proof that Nintendo itself classifies Mario 64 as a different sort of game compared to other 3D Marios

Good for them, but I don't see how that matters here. Appealing to authority?

I'm sure you'd make a distinction for Pokemon Snap, GTA or TES in first person, Portal and other games that play like FPS games but aren't FPS games

Your understanding of the term "First-Person Shooter" seems very tenuous at best if you are including games with third person view or games where you don't even shoot. Ironic coming from somebody who just finished claiming I'd be the one looking like a fool here lmao.

some vague notion

How is it vague? If you are going to argue a definition then bring up your issues with it already, I'm not going to do your work especially since I don't disagree with the term, although I certainly do disagree with your interpretation here.

Good for them, but I don't see how that matters here. Appealing to authority?

Seriously anon? Right after appealing to popularity?

Your understanding of the term "First-Person Shooter" seems very tenuous at best if you are including games with third person view or games where you don't even shoot

Your understanding of genres seems tenuous at best if you're including aesthetics into it, because you absolutely shoot in all of those games on a mechanical level

Right after appealing to popularity?

Not popularity, but when it comes to language you need implicit agreement between you and whoever you are talking with on what the words you are spouting even mean. In this case I'm not sure you can convince anyone it makes sense to use something like "Mario-like" as classification unless you go in detail about what exactly it means, the term is not intuitive when Mario games have radically different core gameplay mechanics.
Also

implying camera in vidya only matters for aesthetic reasons

Holy pseud. I'm not even going to bother with the Snap example, that would be enough for anyone to label you as a worthless shitposter.

Gameplay is king.

Kek

embarassing