the height of endgame content is being locked in a room for the entire back half of the game gooning to repetitive maps and blasting entire screens of enemies
why are modern arpgs like this? diablo 1 and 2 were classics before mapping became a thing, but now that maps exist arpg design has lost its harmony because as soon as you hit the endgame all the content except maps is irrelevant and meaningless
See PoE 2 thread
Check to see if it's free to play yet
Recent reviews mostly negative
Uhoh. What happened?
Devs with a vision who think they are entitled to succes and no one to tell them no
endgame is killing these kind of games
diablo 2 had no endgame and its 100x better than this shit
they made it too hard
What happened
"Vision 2: Legacy of The Meaningful Combat"
Jonathan lost is what happened.
Where did all those "ITS EA LET THEM COOK" people go?
retard lmao
game is not hard it is just dogshit
hardest build in that game takes 3 buttons to operate and is worse than hundreds of 1 button builds avaliable that oneshot literally any and all content in the game
They realise it's only getting worse and left. Jonathans game.
They're trying to take a very established genre with a lot of fans in a fuckstupid direction that nobody wants, and basically telling millions of fans that they are wrong. It's kind of bizarre to watch.
Mapping was to fix the D2 problem of running the same 3 things over and over for your endgame.
The problem is that modern ARPGs are designed like modern MMOs: everything before endgame is a formality you’re supposed to race through as fast as you can. There’s a reason why Project Diablo 2 introduced mapping.
The design has a lot of incongruent elements. So much of the game is STILL a clone of Diablo 2 because they don’t actually know how to achieve their goal of “slow, meaningful combat” without making the game really boring and tedious.
They don’t seem to realize this isn’t something they can achieve just by manipulating numbers either.
Less than 30% of people don't like the game.
You're the minority here retard.
Stay filtered and flocking every inferior APRG like the vermin you are, I'm sure Titan Quest 2 will save you bub.
They just don't bait like they used to around here, what's wrong with these kids.
Bruh if you’re playing anything but PD2 you’re a mongoloid
The game isn't even finished yet, but the modern arpg community is just filled with a bunch of whinging hyperbolic trannys.
When the game hits 1.0, they will all be playing on launch day.
The game isn't even finished yet
You’re delusional if you think the game is changing in any meaningful way
It's not about the game being finished or not when the entire design philosophy revolves around everything being completely on rails and only having a few workable supports for every skill, when the first game was basically a character building sandbox. It's fucked from the ground up.
endgame is killing these kind of games
I actually agree. They focus so much on the endgame that they ignore the...game.
Meph, pindle and baal runs were unironically more fun than the latest "endgame" trends.
PD2 maps are fun as an alternative to the usual farming spots
New campaign is actually great so far and a huge improvement over the PoE1 campaign, not a problem at all there other than it being unfinished.
You're just some overly emotional newfag tourist who can't adapt to change, let me guess you're someone who still cries about havest too?
Grow up.
If you genuinely cared about mug gwame deswine, why not apply for a job at GGG? they have vacancies.
Uhoh. What happened?
They balanced the game. Some massively overpowered builds were nerfed a bit, the guide-following trade leaguers proceeded to shit themselves in anger.
I'm sorry to hear about your brain problems anon
Lmao, how much time and money have you lost on PoE? Don't be shy, you are anonymous here.
Where did all those "ITS EA LET THEM COOK" people go?
Letting GGG cook, obviously
PD2 maps are fun as an alternative to the usual farming spots
I agree there, they have done a pretty good job. Other devs are just over thinking things. Kill mobs get loot.
True, it's well put together, mostly, it's the character and mechanic designs along the way that make it monumentally boring
You can just tell that they have never played Elden Ring if they think this is what those games are supposed to be like.
How does PoE2 compare to Last Epoch. I've been holding off from PoE2 because its still in EA but am craving another game, so I tried LE. I thought LE was okay but the classes were weird and lame.
Devs with a vision who think they are entitled to success
God, this explains it so well
My game has friction. This makes it...le good....and you should...le play it and paypig me....
I'm fine with the game being slow but they really need to alter endgame to match that pace AND balance drop rates around 1 map of drops every 15 minutes instead of every minute like in PoE 1.
I hate trade so very much.
I mean I've made some creative builds in PoE2 that were quite strong.
The problem is outside of a few meta things it's all shit that's like 3-6 buttons to kill 1 pack of white mobs and you have to facetank them for multiple skills while they beat your ass (and inevitably stun you out of multiple animations).
In PoE1 you could keep speeding/powering yourself up and automating pieces of your build until it became just as smooth and fast as any other meta build, maybe less powerful, but easily enough to map with. PoE2 you can't do this and a lot of the time even if you figure out something cool and unique that works it will just always feel slow and weak.
Mapping was to fix the D2 problem of running the same 3 things over and over for your endgame.
The problem is that modern ARPGs are designed like modern MMOs: everything before endgame is a formality you’re supposed to race through as fast as you can. There’s a reason why Project Diablo 2 introduced mapping.
I agree, maps are not themselves the issue, the issue is that only maps matter. I actually like diablo 4 conceptually the most out of modern arpgs because you run around the world doing different things. I think the pit could be improved by making it more like the structure of diablo 1 by going deeper and deeper into super hard areas with specific themes and different bosses and types of content. the issue is that it ends up being boring and bad because nothing has any nuance and it's all designed like disposable slop that you blast through mindlessly. other arpgs are all about locking you in the cuck (map) shed tho.
New campaign is actually great so far
erm no I hate poe1 campaign but I would sooner play that than the shit in poe2
nigga please. redditors are not the majority of the arpg playerbase. most people want a different game from poe1, that much is obvious to all except those trying to cope
5 months into EA and they've added no actual new content other than a new """league mechanic""" which just involves following around a wisp in your map while it adds sparkles to mobs
it honestly feels a little scammy at this point. 1.0 feels 2 years away at the rate they're actually getting shit released.
Yeah D4 overworld is interesting, but level scaling ruins it totally.
It would be far more enjoyable with specifically set area difficulties that you could choose what you wanted.
if you want an easy and fast arpg it's good, it's like good diablo 3 with better systems. I like difficulty in arpgs personally. I like playing hardcore. my favorite arpg right now is project diablo 2 because maps don't feel like the be-all-end-all of content
It's almost like one of these two examples is an unfinished work in progress with less than 50% of the available weapons and abilities.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
What do you mean I can't do things with builds that don't exist in the game yet? Noooo waaaaaaay dude, that's craaaaazy.
accurate. they will say how bad the game is and then pour hundreds of hours into it while they are "miserable" and hate the game of course :^)
Poe2 tries to be "no rest for the wicked", but their way if achieving that is to just take poe1 and tweak numbers, which obviously doesn't work. Now it's in a weird hybrid state where both methodical and zoom zoom players hate it.
NTA but every build in path of exile 2 is boring because the content is boring. if you make a good build it literally stops being fun to play because in modern arpgs that are about spamming your screen with a million enemies the only thing that matters is doing a lot of aoe damage and not dying, and that is mostly handled by having a good build. the only fun thing to do in poe2 right now is coming up with good builds and getting to the point where they become good, but after that point it becomes sloppa
we haven't even seen 20% of the game's content so i don't even know what you are getting at by pretending they won't release more acts, classes, items, and mechanics with time
It's almost like one of these two examples is an unfinished work in progress with less than 50% of the available weapons and abilities.
Jonathan Rogers (creative director) said they 'weren't really behind on the game' when it was delayed...six months ago.
PoE2 has been in development for 6 years, and has god knows how many hundreds of millions of dollars pumped into it. They shipped 20% of a game and have added one (1) single fucking class since their early access release.
B-B-B-BUT THEY SCRAPPED AND REDID WHAT ENDED UP BEING PoE2 SEVERAL TIMES!
Yeah, not my fucking problem. Don't be dumb kiwiniggers who scope creep everything. They've lost every major developer they had since PoE2 launched, including Chris Wilson. Its a fucking disaster.
Why are you so emotional over this? it will be released when its ready.
At least you can play a scuffed Early Access version of the game while you wait.
Are you cutting your wrists over GTA 6 being delayed another year? You should get your t levels checked dude.
It has nothing to do with this. This is how it's intended to work.
For instance, one of the biggest pain points for many builds is charge generation. They intentionally made combat frenzy incredibly shit and changed the generation CD from 2s to like 6s or something which makes it cancer to try to clear using it for generation, so you need to use multiple other skills to combo for generation.
How shit is no rest for the wicked? I see people saying good things about it, but then I also see people say it has timegated base building and survival resource gathering which sounds ass in an ARPG.
ARPGs really were the first live service slopgames weren’t they? Even MMOs took longer to become that predatory.
Then just don't play a build which relies on charge generation until there is a viable solutions added to the game?
Why are you forcing yourself into a play style you don't enjoy then blaming it on others.
The entire Diablo-like genre is just shit. Zero meaningful innovation. There's been so many top-down action games with far better combat since Diablo 2 and Diablo-likes haven't learned a fucking thing from them. No I don't call them ARPGs because that's an insult to real ARPGs.
There's been so many top-down action games with far better combat since Diablo 2 and Diablo-likes haven't learned a fucking thing from them.
Such as?
People LET THEM COOK for 0.2 and they underdelivered with barely any new content, recycling even more mechanics from 1, and making the game worse.
Its because Diablo 1 and 2 were made by people who were inspired by lots of different things.
Everything after that has just been made by people inspired by Diablo 2
Umm I have concepts of better games...
You're ignoring that there was a much better solution, and then it got nerfed into clunky garbage for no reason. Nothing indicates they will be adding some new thing that is significantly better. If there was supposed to be something better, they just wouldn't have nerfed combat frenzy in the way they did.
For me the biggest problem is defenses. They can't seem to decide if they want you to be able to have stat based defenses or if they want you to just get out of the way entirely and flip flop between them with each foe.
There's been so many top-down action games with far better combat since Diablo 2
Name some, if they're so great.
Shadow and Templar were the charge classes in PoE 1, so we will have to see.
My guy Huntress has like half of their skills being charge skills and released with their charge generation being the fucking dogshit parry mechanic. I have 0 faith.
this is partially why I want to enjoy them now more than ever, because it's where the industry is headed so I don't have to see everything I love melt into slop before my eyes. people are keen on making arpgs better (even for people like me) today
uuh maps are a pretty big innovation? there's clear speed meta, build calculators... a ton of stuff. most arpgs that come out have their own twists on the formula. the path of exile gem system and passive tree was huge in itself. idk what you're talking about anon
Those are some of the worst "innovations" I can imagine. Excel spreadsheets and auto-battler gacha gameplay lmao
if what you mean is "the genre has innovated in ways that are boring and I don't like" then u should say that anon. I kinda agree with u to some degree but it's obv not a stagnant genre
poe1 babies are killing arpgs
I haven't played anything in this genre besides Diablo 1 like two decades ago. What should I play?
Do you still lose map modifiers when you die?
You now get a certain amount of respawns on a map depending on the quality and amount of modifiers of the waystone used. Normal whites have 6 retries, juiced up rares have 1. Run out of respawns and you lose the modifiers on the node you used.
boss becomes immune to all damage and covers the ground in AOE while you are being stabbed to death by unattackable mobs
That is when I dropped this shit game. the devs don't want you to have fun they just want your character dead.
Oh that's cool. Might jump back in after I finish my skyrim bender of banging every women.
endgame
yawn who cares, more grinding
Diablo 2
diablo 2 and uh that's it. path of exile 1 was cool at one point in time but not anymore. path of exile 2 is just alright
I don't want to go down that route because I'm very autistic about finishing recent series I've started so that implies I need to go and replay Diablo 1 and also play Diablo Immortal.
Personally I am waiting for it to get out of early access.
Seems like it's getting better with every patch.
what distinguishes good arpg from bad arpg content is that it makes grinding fun, addictive and worthwhile. saying "it's just grinding" betrays a fundamental misunderstanding on ur part.
That's skinner box horseshit, I would barely even call them mechanics.
the mechanics / systems you're alluding to (like having good bosses) has resulted in worse games because what you have in mind is only suited for a game you play through once or twice. the point is to design a really compelling skinner box to maintain interest over a long period of time while feeling good to engage with that offers a fun time to low, middle and high investment players simultaneously by having a broad range of options and nuances on how you pull the lever. the fun in the game at a mid and higher level is learning the box and how to get what you want from it as fast as possible. if you only design it for low level players who are enjoying things outside of that, you end up with a very disposable kind of gameplay like what we have in poe 2 rn.
play diablo 1 on the ps1 and play with a different class. ps1 diablo is legit the best version without mods