This game's ending should not be filtering people

You need to be outside the canvas to see the bigger picture.

No, retard. He was real to Verso, but in the grand scheme of things, his life does not hold anywhere near as much value as Aline's. He determined Gustave as a threat that would prevent their mother from being freed. He made the decision based on that.

now your seeing the problem with the story bravo

le grand scheme of things

fuck off Verso you vain cunt

Verso's soul fragment (which isn't even a being, it's literally just the remnants of what he painted) deserves no sympathy. Killing Esquie alone is unforgivable. Killing the rest just adds to the crime. Besides Maelle is able to make paintings inside of the painting. So she can literally rebuild Verso organically in a new pocket universe and herself and a situation where Verso never dies.

Destruction makes no logical sense in a universe with infinite creative potential rules. It loses all meaning and justification.

More like Re:verso you fucking xerox

game's ending is retarded because it wants you to care about lune and sciel and gustave as humans but also to act like their lives don't matter. it wants to have it both ways. the entirety of the first two acts are all about lumiere and its future and gustave's sacrifice, and then it asks you to obliterate all of that on the flimsiest pretext.

the game treats you like an escapist retard if you pick maelle's ending, because it assumes you picked it because you agree with maelle, when in reality both maelle and verso were being retarded. maelle was just less retarded because she wasn't about to erase an entire population of humans -- humans who have free will (disobeying their creators), humans who have souls (per painted verso child), humans who desperately *do not want to be erased* (the entire premise of the game.)

he wasn't real

All the Versofags arguments boil down to this
The characters being trapped in a world made by powerful painter wizards don't make them any less real than any other character outside the canvas.

kek

they're gods who created life. how are they not real?

kill millions

OR

force a gay retard to play the piano

well which is it

What millions? There wasn't even hundreds at the harbor at the beginning of the game.

force a milliom gay retards to play the piano

Pianoplaying is a fate worse than death... those fucking painteds should be happy they get to die and NOT play the piano...

The real answer is that the Dessendres are evil demiurges who created and destroyed hundreds of worlds for their amusement, they deserve to suffer.

I'd don't care if you want to kill yourself in your delusions, just don't do it here.

Verso truly is the villain.

She's still a burn victim, and she stops to live.
You can surround yourself with dolls with pre-recorded lines telling "you're not like this" it's still a lie

that's not living. She'll have to depend on others her entire life while her family slowly starts to resent her for being a burden. Clea is already showing signs. God forbid she wants to escape into a fantasy.

Cool. Lies are useful and they should be used as an utility to make things better. What else you got?

It is FFTA all over again.
I literally see the same arguments.

escapism into a magical world bad!

get in the fucking wheelchair!

Defend this!
I FUCKING DARE YOU!

He was real to her.

escapism is le bad! doesn't work when the alternative is being a mute burn victim with one eye. You all seem to ignore this fact.

No shit. That is why it is called escapism. Who the fuck escapes from a better situation?

FFTA had a completely reasonable "fuck that ur going home" because Ivalice LITERALLY OVERRIDES THEIR HOME WORLD AND TURNS PEOPLE INTO MONSTERS FOR MEWT TO TORTURE, outside of them having their life sucky sucky by the mommy gf book.

This is just some bitch wanting to stay in her preferred world after her family did not give a fuck she got brain raped for 16 years into thinking she lives there vs some dude that has been equally mind raped wanting out but not before he extrapolates his fake mind raped memories into fake care for his fake sister.

so then what's the issue?

some of the earliest song lyrics are about coping with mortality and the CEO likes Persona 3, I think it's pretty obvious what they're doing. it's presented in the context of escapism to a fictional world, asking the similar questions Undertale asked about how you interact with the fiction you consume.

Escapism is bad.

Um, escapism is le bed?

Nether is painted Verso so why the fuck should his desire to die outweigh Maelle's want to preserve the Canvas?

uh but part of Verso's soul is in the painting

So is Maelle's full soul. So if we're going to go down the "real people matter more than painted people" route then Maelle wins.

Because?

It just is.

This game doesn't look that good and I'm confused about why it's getting so many threads

escapism is bad doesn't work when you're escaping a bad life

No shit, no one wants to escape a good life

So what's the issue?

ummm...escapism is bad?

Escapism is a good thing and I'm tired of depressed wagie devs telling me otherwise.

looks can be deceiving

I don't care for baseless argumentation. Therefore I shall engage with this bad thing at leisure.

Because it's a good game.

IRL Escapism is bad because your family and closed one suffers. In this game, it isn't really escapism but rather choosing to live in another reality. However false that reality might be.

BECAUSE?

Nigga, you play fucking video games. Go outside if escapism is bad

It turned into whiny family drama when they tried to take Maelle's toys away. The initial plot was better when we were just fighting a random Goddess / witch who kills people with magic numbers.

Why not just commit suicide? It's literally a permanent form of escapism

People don't understand moderation huh? There is a difference between playing video games and playing video games till it is actively killing you.

Yes, OVERINDULGENCE of IRL escapism is indeed bad. Plain normal indulgence in it is basically a necessity for human society to exist at all, otherwise we would immediately realize nothing of what we do has any point and rever to eating everything then shitting and dying.
And indeed it does not seem to apply in any way to how this world functions, specially since people are telling Alicia to go to a different Canvas anyways in game anyway, so in the end it basically just seems to be a choice to deny her what she wants which is to just live her one life in there and that's it.

I have one question. What’s the deal with the lion in the second Renoir fight

Because everyone's lives is shit and if everyone escapes from it, society falls apart.
Part of being human is dealing with shit and making things better for the humans that come after.
You need to balance your chosen opioid of the masses and struggling through reality. Not just an hero or choose to quit life.

Life is shit and then you die. That's reality.
What you make of your life despite this is called humanity.

That's not even bait, anon, that's just like... not understanding the english language and terminology.

Still a bad choice because at the end of Maelle's ending, the only "real" people left were Sciel and Lune. Everyone else was a puppet or a facsimile made from Maelle's memories.

How do i deal with being a disfigured, mute burn victim with a family telling me to kill myself every day?

Are you?

Your headcanon is irrelevant to me.

Maybe he’s a lion?

Headcanon

How is it headcanon when the game explicitly says that people who were grommaged can't be brought back?

Pubmed agrees with me so.....
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2408091/

Your statements only argue towards not paying any attention whatsoever to societal moralism.
If you have a venue out to enjoy your life on your terms, you use it. Simple as.

but Lune and Sciel were brought back

these back and forth moral debates are boring

what do we think the writers' powers are?

They were brought back because it happened immediately after before their chroma could be absorbed.

any online poll yet somewhere? I wonder what do people chose

I liked the initial plot too, felt more original than generic escapism from your hellish life is... LE BAD plot that we have seen thousand times.

Painter's powers but instead of painting, it words.

Neither is painted Verso

Hoarah Loux reference

How would a game about the Writers play like?

Visual novel

Sorry but as a free individualist I don't care about the rest of you.

Do you think they will increase the parry window in the sequel?

Dessendre family had dogs so it's only fair assumption the have painted versions as well

Dunno, Hellen Keller managed but that's annicdotal evidence.
The fact is that 'you have to deal with the cards you're delt' is a foundation of having a morally good society so escapism is seen as bad.

If we say 'you are allowed to escape your circumstances if you can't handle it' then most people will stop playing the rigged game and society collapses. Kill retard babies, abort unwanted children, euthanize anyone willing for free.
The RNG of life is a huge part of society.

Verso's irl dog was Monoco in the painting

OIC

Is anyone working on the edit?

I'm sure if Hellen Keller could create a magical fantasy world where she wasn't blind and deaf then she would have.

Total Painter Death

Painted people opinions don't matter

Real people opinions do

Maelle beats the shit out of her parents

Is the only Real person in the canvas

Therefore, Maelle is right

Guess that solved the argument then?

That's what they need to do. Make the Writers English.

This actually is headcanon though. Maelle, Sciel, Lune, and even Verso all think they can be brought back. You'll notice then when Maelle is shouting at him Verso never says "they're gone, Maelle, you can't bring them back"

because she can and no one denies this

Maelle's ending shows she's been in there long enough that it's actually starting to kill her

This means Verso was right and she did lie

This is what you fags say is the good ending?

Maelle's opinions don't matter, she's a painted person too. Only Alicia's opinions matter.

Counterpoint: It's Verso's world and Painted Verso was created with the real one's memories embedded in him, therefore it's his painting get fucked.

well duh, it's a video game, none of them are real

considering the World War I backdrop, maybe germans? or they could be a yet another faction "the Engineers"

I found Maelle's ending to be a temporary fix when it comes to the fate of the canvas, meanwhile Verso's ending was ripping off the band-aid.

If Maelle went too far with her time in the Canvas I feel like Renoir and Aline would eventually step in and try to force her out, Renoir and Aline would end up fighting in the canvas again, or Renoir and Aline would wait for the canvas to inevitably kill Alicia and they'd destroy the canvas afterwards due to the grief of losing two of their children. Meanwhile Verso, both the painted version and the final piece of the real one's soul, get to go out on his own terms, even if those who remained alive in the canvas hated him for it.

In my mind there's no feasible ending where the canvas gets left alone.

It's just 1905 Paris, there's no backdrop of WWI other than that.

read the thread, nigger. it's not a good ending, but the other ending is a fucking genocide that gets dressed up in happy colors and music.

Even the biggest morons with headcanons won't say it's the good ending, they'll just say "oh well, both endings are bad" when it's clearly the bad ending.
The entire point of the game is to let go, they didn't want to and chose to play as Maelle, they got filtered, that's it

Why wouldn't she bring back Gustave too then?

what ending would be more interesting to use for the sequel?

Ran out of chroma

she does. renoir just has all the chroma at the point, but as soon as he fucks off she does.

Verso's sets up Clea's war with the family being able to focus entirely on it.

They created the world of the Painters

Cipher from the matrix is 1000% a Maellefag

In my mind there's no feasible ending where the canvas gets left alone.

just get on Esquie's back, start to fly and look at the state of the world.
You don't even need to destroy it, the entire thing is fucked beyond recognition

and he's 100% correct

Maelle Wins

Gets to live fantasy life

Verso suffers

Will die

Renoir WILL burn the Canvas after she dies

Verso wins

Alicia moves on and heals

Canvas is destroyed

Alicia doesn't die

Verso's ending so Alicia can learn to be a painter and go in different canvas worlds/adventures.

Can even have a kino life threatening moment and in her panic she summons Gustav from her memories to protect her.

Bach

Haydn

Mozart

Beethoven

Wagner

Germans are the Musicians

no one's arguing that it isn't 'the bad ending' -- the game's moral priorities are just fucked. they've created an entire civilization of people who desperately don't want to die, and then all the characters except maelle suddenly stop thinking their lives matter at all for no reason. maelle shotus at verso to explain himself and he won't.

the game gives you no reason whatsoever why lune's life doesn't matter, and it even lingers on her in verso's ending.

Verso's sets up potential with Clea. Maelle sets up potential consequences for her actions. Now what would be cool is if they have it so both endings effect the sequel.

Renoir WILL burn the Canvas after she dies

Renoir actively states that he doesn't want to do this, his only reason for doing it is to get Alicia out of the canvas. If she's already dead then she's just obliterating his son's soul and an entire civilization of people purely out of spite.

He wouldn't do that.

Cipher was correct though.
The ending reveal was 'The One' was just an AI scam for a false rebellion cycle. They randomly pick someone and give them sudo admin powers so he can lead a rebellion and then they wipe the rebellion - to preserve the cycle of free will

no one's arguing that it isn't 'the bad ending'

It isn't 'the bad ending', both endings are bad

she doesn't, she recreates him
that's the entire point, they're all gone, she doesn't "bring them back" she just recreates them from memory, they're clones.
She's a paintress, she could bring back most of the expeditions for a final war against her father who got rid of his biggest obstacle, yet somehow she lacks the power to bring back ONE person?
she didn't bring him back because everyone involved would call her bullshit about it

well technically when Verso shuts down the canvas, canonically the only people still alive in the canvas are what remains of Expedition 33, Alicia's copy, Clea's Copy, and what remains of the Gestrals. So him killing millions doesn't hold, maybe he killed close to or little over a hundred people.

Something else to consider about Maelle's ending.

It's implied to be some time later

Canvas World is still fucked

Friends have 100% been mind wiped

Nah i decided i'd rather side with the people of the painting. Lune, Sciel, Lumiere, Esquie and Monaco all deserve as much life as they can get.Hence why i chose the Maelle ending. Will they die one day? Maybe but you fight for each day you can get. Fuck Verso and fuck the painters.

The Canvas potential cost him his wife

The Canvas has taken his youngest child because she could not let go

It will eventually take Aline and he will not be able to stop it

The moment Alicia dies, it's going into th fireplace.

If you do the sidequests before the end Alicia's copy gets gommaged by Maelle and Clea's copy lets herself get penetrated by multiple Nevrons.

this is all headcanon, though. it goes against everything we know. everyone in e33 (including verso) believes that once she has the chroma she can bring back everybody just as they were.
when she gets the chroma, she brings them back just as they were.

she brought back the expeditions because the chroma stayed in their bodies when they died.

everyone in e33 (including verso) believes that once she has the chroma she can bring back everybody just as they were.

She literally tells Sciel in the camp that she can't bring them back but she will "find a way". I think you are the one coming up with BS headcanon.

She needs his chroma retard, Renoir has control of all the chroma besides Lune/Sciel's which she grabbed already, and the expeditioner chroma stuck in their bodies because of nevrons. Gustave wasn't killed by a nevron. His chroma is probably floating over by the cliffs where he died (or following the party around, Lune says she can feel it).

the game's moral priorities are just fucked

one ending is the main character continuing the cycle of playing dolls until death
the other ending is the entire family getting over a tragic event and moving on.

and then all the characters except maelle suddenly stop thinking their lives matter at all for no reason.

maybe they do, but you seem to forget everyone died at the end of act 2

the game gives you no reason whatsoever why lune's life doesn't matter

because she's dead at the end of act 2

when she gets the chroma, she brings them back just as they were.

Sounds bullshit considering that Maelle tells Verso that only Gustave and Emma put up with the town weirdo.

Sounds like she needs to grow the fuck up lol

>Will die

>Renoir WILL burn the Canvas after she dies

why yall acting like Renoir left the canvas for ever lel
he will be watching and the moment he realizes Alicia is proving him right and that she's doing exactly the same thing her mother did, he will enter the canvas again and the whole cycle will repeat itself

you're just projecting a spiteful/vengeful character onto him that he never shows in game.

what deeper disrespect could he heap upon his daughter than destroying the families and world she'd devoted her life to protecting. he'd have no reason to do it other than spite, and everything about his characterization is the opposite of spiteful.

His chroma is probably floating over by the cliffs where he died

And they didn't go to the cliff where he died to grab it when they did the montage of reanimating the other expeditioners?

(or following the party around, Lune says she can feel it).

And she didn't pluck it from around them where Lune can feel it?

That's not how being human works.
We, by nature, are social animals. We are talking right now because we live in a society.
And as a society, we have to dub 'escapism is bad' as a foundation of society because inequality and unfairness will always exist because of the RNG of the world and the limitation of resources.
You can choose to not believe it, but you can't change the moral strata that society is based on.

It's like asking "why struggle to improve your life if you can just take drugs and die happy?".

It's unironically this. The game was being meta, the writers are the actual writers for the game. They wrote that Verso died In a fire because the plot demanded it, now the Painters within the fictional world are seething that THEIR creators inflicted that tragedy on them and Clea is on a mission to escape into the real world. This is why Verso's ending is actually the brainlet ending, Alicia would be In the same predicament inside and outside the canvas, but at least within the canvas she's master of her own destiny and happy.

Reference to their son, Lyon, who was aborted a few years after birth

but at least within the canvas she's master of her own destiny and happy.

Local crackhead claims he is the master of his own destiny as he lies on the sidewalk pissing his pants.

And they didn't go to the cliff where he died to grab it when they did the montage of reanimating the other expeditioners?

Again, Renoir has control of it.

She literally tells Sciel in the camp that she can't bring them back but she will "find a way". I think you are the one coming up with BS headcanon.

give me the quote. maybe i'm wrong? i know sciel seems to act like pierre can be brought back.

you're making two assumptions here -- one that the painting people are no more than 'dolls', two that the revived characters have no moral worth. please justify them. my whole objection is that the game refuses to do this. maelle says 'what about lune and sciel' and verso answers with some vague bullshit.

IIRC Sciel says "can you bring the others back too" after her and Lune are brought back, and Maelle replies "yeah but I need chroma, and Renoir has control of all the chroma in the canvas right now".

that's not living. She'll have to depend on others her entire life while her family slowly starts to resent her for being a burden.

How is she a burden exactly? She's not a quadraplegic. She doesn't have a tracheotomy. She doesn't use a gastrointestinal tube. She doesn't have a urinary catheter or a colostomy bag. She is fully ambulatory. Her only real "handicaps" is having vision in only one eye and respiratory problems, and you don't see them with any oxygen tanks around the manor when you play as Alicia.

He was a lion in bed and Aline needed company in her fake family

Matrix Reloaded isn't canon

She also says she can't bring them back as they are but she will find a way.

Yes, OVERINDULGENCE

that's the theme of the game you fuckin retard, alicia is willing to kill herself over escapism

You are aware people have been through worse and actually loved fulfilled lives right?

In what manner? You literally posited that it's just floating around the cliff.

I simply would have made a better ending

Ok. Just did Verso's ending. That is 100% the True ending.

A better ending would have been Alicia using the canvas in moderation but obviously it would not have generated as much discussion.

IIRC Sciel says "can you bring the others back too" after her and Lune are brought back, and Maelle replies "yeah but I need chroma, and Renoir has control of all the chroma in the canvas right now".

that's what i was saying though. she can revive them, just like she revived sciel and lune, she just needs renoir's chroma. and when he leaves, she gets it. the gommage is a reversible death, more like a disembodied coma than anything else.

Ackshually, Gustave's Chroma went back to Aline because he was killed by painted Renoir, that's the reason he kills expeditioners in the first and tells Maelle that killing Gustave is actually a "mercy" because Aline would have revived everyone once she finally got Renoir out of her painting. It was when Aline got booted out of the painting that Renoir took control of all the Chroma. It might have been possible for Alicia/Maelle to revive Gustave as soon as he died, but her painter powers hadn't manifested yet, so she missed her chance.

Again, find the quote? I know they say this about Noco, because Gestrals don't retain their memories after they die. I really don't remember Maelle saying she can't 'bring them back as they are'

Hey something I noticed about Verso's ending. Everyone except for Lune Gommages. Yeah it could just be that it happened off screen, but it showed everyone else so why wouldn't it show her? Hell she wasn't even fading.

She could have just did heroin until she died and no one would have ever heard about her lol. The entire fucking reason people know about hellen keller was because she got the shittiest cards dealt to her and toughed it out, became an artist and activist for people with disabilities anyway.

I saved her

She only says this about the expeditioners killed by nevrons whos chroma is "old and impure".

punishment for not putting out

you're making two assumptions here -- one that the painting people are no more than 'dolls'

look at Maelle's ending anon, you have young Verso and adult Verso simultaneously, she just entered creative mode.

two that the revived characters have no moral worth

they're convenient devices Maelle came up with, they have value because they were created by her, that's why all the expeditions are faceless, because she doesn't care about them.
Alicia is a god walking among her creations, the endings are either her embracing this illusion or getting over it by facing the real world using her experience as memories

Alright hotsot. How would YOU have handled the ending?

she wasn't in border zone like Sciel, she gommaged later

The Super Gommage didn't happen until the kid stopped painting.
Everyone else Gommaged early because they stepped into the in-between world to say goodbye to Verso.
Lune didn't bother and just seethes. Even putting energy to sit down to show she isn't going in to say goodbye or try to stop him

The "subvert your expectations" writing that made the plot from "godlike entity is killing everyone and there are expeditions to stop that" to "it's family drama you see in soap operas" made the filter valid

Gustave gets painted into the real world by some form of magic or some shit and marries Alicia, has babies with her, etc.

Why do most of these discussions stem from one guy going

The entire point of the game is <completely made up moral cookie nonsense that at best is one of the dozen points in the game>

And why does everyone even entertain such discussions to begin with?

Act 1

Kino

Act 2

Kino

Act 3

Kino

The Ending

Both are dogshit

Renoir gets convinced that destroying the Canvas won't solve anything

Alicia agrees to leave with him after they fix everything

There.

both endings are kino

rare "NIGGA HEIL HITLER" captcha

I swear people are being purposely obtuse. Alicia can make her own canvas and fill it with all the dead people she wants. It wasn't about escapism bad. She just needed to let go of Verso's soul. She became addicted and doomed.

If Alicia gets out of the painting then she's subject to the whims of her gods (the writers) but within the canvas the writers have no real way to get to her or affect her fantasy land unless they decide to be total hacks and contrived some bullshit reason. They can write that there's another fire and her corporeal body dies, maybe, but it'd be an instant death to her, and thanks to the time dilation of the canvas she'd have several good years within her canvas, still. You faggots pushing the junky narrative don't understand what winning is. Maelle in her painting is winning, because at the end of the day she's also a fictional character.

Man, Lune gets beaten like a dog for this whole game, even if you pick the Maelle ending

How would you have ended the game?

After Renoir says goodbye and that he'll keep the light on for her, Alicia looks at the sunrise - "Tomorrow is here"
Jump to a celebration/medal ceremony in Lumiere with everyone resurrected. You now walk from the Harbor up to Town hall as a reverse of the prologue. Talking to people.

Ceremony is the mayor putting medals on everyone (except Monoco and Maelle).
Mayor then gives a speech about bravery, sacrifice and keeping hope alive they award her a more prestigious medal.
Gustav walks in on stage to give it to her. They talk for a bit about visiting.

Maelle then says goodbye to everyone and Gommages to go to the real world.

End.

Not that hard frenchie

how do we beat our oppressors?

by hypnotizing ourselves with our own delusions until we die irl

lmao

Just copies from her memories if they aren't remade in the same canvas with the same chroma. It would be like painted Verso vs real Verso.

see, my problem with what you're saying here is that most of it isn't true.

creative mode

first of all, we don't *know* that that's young verso. it could be one of gustave's apprentices. even if it is young verso, this proves nothing about any of the other characters we see in that ending. why does the existence of a powerful deity make other characters suddenly of no moral worth?

they're convenient devices Maelle came up with, they have value because they were created by her, that's why all the expeditions are faceless, because she doesn't care about them.

Alicia is a god walking among her creations, the endings are either her embracing this illusion or getting over it by facing the real world using her experience as memories

I agree the game shows she's a god walking among her creations and that this is fucked up for her, but it still shows those creations to be humans with subjectivity and a desire not to die. I don't think our lives would cease to mean anything if God decided to start living among us one day.

I would come out of nowhere and mary Alicia, she would get over her insecurities, her parents would stop fighting, Clea would approve of my brashness, the Writers would piss themselves at my existence and we would have a loving family and go back to the painting from time to time to say hello to Lumerians (we would de-gommage all of them, I'd hang out with expedition 60 in the gym) oh and Verso was smart and his signature held 100% of his soul and he was brought back to life, same with Monoco, he didn't die, he just fled in the backstreet and came back the next day

Read

Uh, yeah, people do it all the time. It's called having faith in a just reward after death.

third ending,
Maelle gommages Verso and Maelle dies at the same time. Renoir varnishes the painting/seals it in some way, the painted world will live on. Similar to Verso ending for Maelle.

Would be kino.

Verso ending, and cut to Alicia doing groceries and running around Paris smiling.
She bumps into an armless man carrying a stack of books and they both fell.
She hands him his book and there she makes eye contact with realGustav. End

ackshually if we kill ourselves we win the war

LMAO

I don't like it

Clea followed Alicia almost immediately after she fucked up her entry

Told Verso to watch her

Fucked back off

Sooo... Given that she's some Powerful Painter, why didn't she just go in to drag her autistic sister out the moment the side effects started to happen?

People in this thread are saying the painted people make their own chroma. Alicia and just grab a little bit of it from everyone and apply it onto a new canvas.

Renoir, realizing he can't defeat the party, instead bargains with them. He convinces Lune, Verso and Sciel to kick Maelle and Aline out of the canvas, and in return agrees not to erase them and to bring back everyone he gommaged away. If Maelle or Aline ever return, the party (with the overpowered lumina converter and extra help from Renoir's creations) just kick them out again, thus ensuring that neither can use the canvas for escapism.

Seriously it's not that hard to boot them out, Verso does it to Maelle solo.

Everyone wins.

How can literally anyone be surprised by the woke ending
It's the same publisher that made that woke driving around a station wagon game

based and Gustave-pilled

Why do people ship Maelle and Gustav? Did I miss something?

I thought simon was Hoarah Loux reference

Because she's too busy committing war crimes on the Writers.

both are kino

If there was a way to move chroma to a new canvas I think Renoir would be telling her to do that.

incest

Pseudoincest

Gustave could have brokered that deal, unironically, it's why Verso decided he had to die.

They aren't related.

Renoir is canonically an inferior painter. Aline would be the one teaching her how.

This basically.
Alicia and Renoir fight, she wins, gets all the chroma.
They decide to fix all the shit they did and give Lumerians stability. They promise to go to therapy or some shit, Alicia takes responsibility for Verso's death and Verso promises to repent for all the horrible shit he did by keeping the people of Lumiere/the Verso kiddo happy and safe until they return.

Time skip, some centuries later or whatever a portal opens and this time the whole of the family steps into the painting, together, united, to visit the canvas in peace.
Nevrons, axons, Lumerians, everything they left behind has developed a society in harmony like they themselves have managed to do.

The party all gathers together and you then get surprised by being shown they all got the immortality treatment.
Then the painted family shows up on the other side mirroring the real family alongside a painted Aline.
They exchange peaceful smiles as they head into the opera house to see a reshaped soul kid Verso play the piano.

Credit rolls shows the family stay to paint a few worlds for the people of the Canvas to traverse into, taking inspiration from their experiences and their painted counterparts.

Stay in painting

You're surrounded by people who love you, physically and mentally fit and have the powers of a god to rectify any flaws to your existence that might pop up

Leave the painting

You're mute, burned and brotherless and the world is embroiled in a war in which you are a participant

You should leave the painting, bro

no time for that shit, also kept Alicia safe while she was waging solitary war

Maelle's ending but shit starts to become erratic as the camera cuts to Alicia in the real world having a seizure

Clea comes home several weeks after Renoir and Aline get booted from the Canvas

Sees her idiot sister is still in it and has paint seeping from her eyes

Goes in and beats her ass and drags her out

Puts a lock on the door to the room where the canvas is

Simon is 100% a tribute to Artorias

I'm surprised this wasn't entertained even as an option, just negotiate. They have the Lumina converter, with Renoir they can easily kick the women out.

he's still a brotherly figure to her but it might be difficult for your stepbrother shit addicted coombrain

those who died/gommaged remain dead

ending is both Alicia/Maelle and Gustave learning to move on in their own worlds

Kino

t.

Given that she's some Powerful Painter, why didn't she just go in to drag her autistic sister out the moment the side effects started to happen?

because she's the one who did it lol

Yeah but it might be that you just can't do that...

I don't watch porn so that's not a valid argument.

Seriously it's not that hard to boot them out, Verso does it to Maelle solo.

At that point Maelle hadn't had time to take control of all the Chroma.
In the fight against Aline, she was no longer Lucid, and weakened after contesting Renoir for 67 years. In the fight against Renoir, you have Maelle/Alicia + Aline joining the fight.

I don't think the Painted of the Canvas stand any fucking chance against a full power Painter on their own. He just gommages them.

this is some writer/wrigger propaganda

Just the Maelle ending, but everyone is laughing at verso and throwing shit at him while he is forced to play the piano.

You got got to add

Will inevitably die a horrible death if you stay in the painting

Missed opportunity for kino that you don't have to fight Lune as Verso to end their world, even as a scripted one hit kill.
It would really drive in the cost of saving Alicia.

Yeah but it might be that you just can't do that...

If it's anything like real life, you can move paint from one portrait to another. It's just considered a thing that you need permission from the original painter to do.

Aline could have won if everyone in Lumiere had killed themselves instead of sending expeditions. Quite ironic when you think about it.

I've not played but from what I understand the world is in a magic canvas. Why not take the girls out and hide it in a vault?

I don't think the Painted of the Canvas stand any fucking chance against a full power Painter on their own.

Sciel can do 46 billion damage, luminas can fuck painters up.

Why didn't Verso achieve CHIM?

That will happen after years and years, maybe even an entire lifetime. You'd die outside the painting eventually too, and the life leading up to that death would be markedly worse.

Every time we see a painter fight their creations in the story, the painter loses. Aline is, as you say, too weak to do anything. And Maelle isn't going to fucking gommage her friends. Aline wouldn't either, I think. The people of Lumiere are the whole reason Aline and Maelle want to be in the canvas, if they have to destroy them or be booted out what was even the point?

Would be cool to see 'the last stand of expedition 33' as well.

Painted people can't exist outside the painting.

... As opposed to living a horrible every waking second is pain life with rapidly deteriorating health? Oh no?

first of all, we don't *know* that that's young verso.

If you're going to be disingenuous, let's just stop here. You'll have attached the picture of Gustave's apprentices, and I'll let you make the physical comparisons between the young black-haired kid with painted young Verso that you can find in several regions that happens to wear the exact same clothes

, but it still shows those creations to be humans with subjectivity and a desire not to die. I don't think our lives would cease to mean anything if God decided to start living among us one day.

Aline made them like this, they evolved on their own based on prior knowledge, that we agree
but it doesn't work when Alicia painted them
Aline created a new race as a backdrop where they do their own thing
Alicia recreated them to fit her vision and her life
that's the intent behind it, go rewatch the ending, look at the expressions, look at adult Verso's hesitation and look at what makes him play the music, the idea of free will is gone

Gustave would have found a way unironically

Why do you choose to shitpost in Anon Babble and not reddit where everyone agrees with everyone?

It was all a dream

Profound.

I'm talking about the writers vs painters war actually happening, none of the Lumiere shit truly matters at all because all of its issues are easily fixable. It's a problem created by literally one family as escapism because their family got btfo'd irl and won't do shit about it but squabble over "hmm should we akshually just put ourselves into a trance until we die and let the writers win?"

Alicia takes responsibility for Verso's death

All Alicia does is taking responsibility for her brother's death, that's one of her traumas. She can't stop blaming herself for his death. Also "go to therapy or something" really dismisses how deeply rooted Alicia's problems are. She's borderline depressed and those kinds of people can't really decide to just stop being depressed and move on. And her real family is not really helping her solve her issues - Clea treats her as a waste of space, Renoir dismisses her problems and thinks about himself, Aline flat out blames her for everything. That's not a healthy enviroment to return to.
It's the painted people who show her support, not her real family.

Time moves significantly faster inside the painting than outside. Alicia was a 16 year old at the time we see the real world with Renoir and Aline stuck in a stalemate, and at that point 51 years had already passed in the portrait.

I accept your concession.

I think she's fine with that.

rapidly deteriorating health

Where did it say that her condition was getting worse? All we know of her outside the painting is that she has difficulty breathing, not that it's getting more and more difficult to breathe.

They can't beat her, she's too powerful, so they may as well shoot up.

That's kind of the point, anon. They ALL decide to go to therapy and get better, and she takes responsibility on her part by not escaping the ramifications of her actions but rather also being there for it.
Thus they all get better, rather than pine the blame on the canvas because "yeah my son's sock is still in his room so how will I ever move on? Better be a mess!"

she just got burned skin, a missing eye and probably just screwed vocal chords, she can run and move around just fine, she's okay

You're on Anon Babble, you don't give a fuck about moderation

Her lungs are burnt to shit and she struggles to breathe, doubt she can run anywhere

That's kind of how bodies work anon.
She can hold on because she is young. Yet even now she herself states to be weak and in pain.
She will not be able to have a physically active life or in general keep in good health so from there things will escalate inevitably. Bad oxygenation is a bitch.

Yeah true it's a pretty fucked up situation in a world we really know nothing about at all. Aline is the head of the council too so they could literally be fucked irl. I hope they're setting up for a sequel. They can't just drop all of this and not make more.

Time doesn't move faster, it's dilated in comparison to the real world. Experientally, a year is still a year inside the painting, but only a few days will have passed in the real world.

press RT/R2/shift
she's fine

Which most likely means she has burned lungs, so there is a pretty good chance her lungs will die sooner rather than later.

first of all, we don't *know* that that's young verso

NTA, but this is just you feeling cornered and acting stupid on purpose. It is obviously fucking Verso.

That's kind of how bodies work anon.

It's not.
The fact that the number of paralyzed people who have recovered in spite of medical experts telling them they'll never walk again is higher than zero means that no, it's not a sure bet that she's not going to get better.

that's the intent behind it, go rewatch the ending, look at the expressions, look at adult Verso's hesitation and look at what makes him play the music, the idea of free will is gone

OK, I appreciate the argument you're making here. It could be true. But there's no direct evidence for it. Everything we see in Maelle's ending is consistent with the idea that the painting people have free will. When Aline creates a painted family -- literally making an ideal world for herself -- that painted family has free will. Alicia has no reason to take free will from her friends, or to control them. If she does, for no reason, then that's a flaw in and of itself.

Also, because your whole case rests on the Maelle ending, it can feel like the player is tricked into picking that ending before they see it -- they prioritize the lives of the real-seeming painting people, and the game acts like they've handed them over to some psychopath. If Maelle is being a psychopath about it, then it's entirely inconsistent with her character.

It's the main young apprentice who ran off when Maelle broke the news about Gustave dying.

this is 1900 france, they didn't have reconstructive surgery yet, she's ruined for life

Painted Alicia can straight up timestop which we have no idea how that maneuver translates to the irl flow of time.

older brother sacrifices himself to save your life in a fire that you caused

reward him by enslaving his doppleganger, and the last fragment of his soul, in the painting, forever

simply low IQ if you choose maelle.

Of course it isn't impossible, but in the case where her lung tissue (most likely) has been burnt, such a recovery would be akin to a miracle, as it would mean the burned tissue would somehow have to regenerate.

Yeah, especially considering the state of medicine in 1905.
Anon, she's not getting better. She'll probably die in her mid-20's.

Hopefully the DLC will be about the Writers' invasion of the Painters. Imagine the Writers rewrite the inhabitants of the Canvas just to fuck with Alicia. The family is too busy squabbling with themselves that they have forgotten that the real threat, the one that caused Verso's death, is right in front of their door.

It isn't. What the fuck people, do you have no eyes?

burned lungs

The most likely cause of her respiratory ailment is toxic chemicals in the air due to the fire. Think huffing paint fumes cranked up to 11.

Painter powers are hinted to have impact on reality, not just in the Canvas, so there's no telling what is possible in E33's Paris.

You really enjoy spending your time just making up dumb shit to try to stop people from having proper discussion, don't you?

Nta but it is. Same face, same hair, it's only the lighting inside the Opera that's different.

no it isnt you blind fuck

Reply to this post or you will never see Sciel tummy, or Lune feet again.

not a single word that i said was inaccurate.

You can see Pierre has brown hair in the Opera

not cool anon

It is, your headcanon got BTFO

Why the would she just pick ONE of the kids then dress him like painted soul Verso, anon?

you are a double wrigger retard, it isnt

No, if we have a writer invasion DLC it obviously has to end with a shot of someone coming out of the canvas in the expedition outfit, and a mechanical left arm.

i dont care about maelle
i dont care about verso
i dont care about some shitty family
i care about everyone else so maelles ending is the only valid choice

He was the favorite. Did you see Gustave force himself to pat the black one on the head? Lmao.

She's a traumatized young adult who decided to end her life living a lie she deems ideal, pretending to be with her friends when every party involved knows she can wipe out or create concepts on a whim.
Either she pretends it was never the case, meaning she manipulates them knowingly or everyone know and treat her differently because of it, which will cause her to intervene to not be ostracized (which is most likely what we see in the opera)
Lumerians are fucked either way, the seconds she croaks the world will be burned down, if they don't act accordingly they'll be rewritten.
there isn't a single scenario where they can live on in peace, pretending it never happened, the genie is out of the bottle and it will never go back inside

dude it is 100% the fading, faceless boy that you see throughout the game, which is Verso's soul fragment that got here when he painted the canvas as a kid. Maelle painted him back.

COUSINS

I legit do not want this story (or the story of Dessandre family) to continue. Not only because that would ruin the impact of the ending, but also devs would have to decide which ending is canon and that's a can of worms no dev ever wants to open.
Sure, having a sequel with Alicia creating another world has potential, but then again, they would have to create a canon.

Perhaps that kid's parents were expeditioners and not gommaged, but the others' were.
If they were gommaged or killed normally she can bring them back, not if they were killed by Nevrons.

Or more accurately they just go have adventures into painted worlds and they treat her fine because they are shown to be good people that care for her regardless, as the ending and things leading to the ending show.

What hope do Painters have when this is the average Writer?

you just need to throw a Sonic OC description near them and they'll end up killing each other

And you know, it strikes me that Aline is betrayed by her creations. And that the two times we see creations being controlled by an outside painter -- Clea and Simon -- they both turn into black-eyed ghouls, visibly fucked-with. These are two pieces of evidence against the idea of a painter just overriding free will like a demiurge. I think the people are perfectly content to live normal lives with Maelle as their benevolent guardian god.

the seconds she croaks the world will be burned down

This is, again, dependent on spite from Renoir that I just do not think is likely. If his daughter's already gone, he has no reason other than vengeance to destroy the canvas, and considering there are people living in that canvas, I don't think it's a *certainty* that he'd do it.

I also like dark souls 3 and the whole dark souls painted worlds storyline, but the devs were a little on the nose here, dontcha think?

eh, this was a minor plotpoint in dark souls, i don't mind them stealing it.

but yeah this is probably where they got it lol.

the real renoir is the curator

the fake one is the one that looks human

the real mother is the paintress

there is no fake mother

the real maelle is alicia, but somehow she fuses with the fake maelle

despite dying irl somehow the brother is still alive painting for eternity

explain

The "right" ending is them letting Verso go but the whole family is a bunch of whiny little babies so fuck em. Honestly the choice you make could realisticly change nothing if they decided to write it as such.

Maelle keeps the painting and spends a little more time in it like she told Renoir she was gunna do. Later leaves it and simply learns to moderate herself.

or

Leaves and destroys the painting. Then because she was forced to move on she simply creates another later one full of all her now "dead" friends. Gets lost in that one instead going back to square one.

There's no fake Maelle retard. There's Maelle that's Alicia fucking up her entry into the painting, and painted Alicia.

play the game

Alicia won

...wait, were you skipping all the dialogues? The game literally explains all of it in detail.

I wouldnt blame him if he did. The pacing of the cutscenes is so fucking terrible. Giant 10 second pauses after every line of dialogue between 2 people.

not in the Verso ending :^)

But you can just read the text and press next?

there is no fake mother

That’s the part I don’t get. Also confused about what was created by Verso and what was the paintress

verso wins

the painting is erased

alicia makes a new painted world where she gets her back blown out eternally by painted gustave

how does painted verso plan to stop this?

Why the fuck would there be a fake mom? She made the fake family to escape into the painting and live a fantasy where her baby boy never died.

why would Aline create a clone of herself?

Why should there be a fake mother if Aline is literally the Paintress?

Child verso

Esquie, Gestrals, Grandis, Trains

Child clea

Francois

Aline

Lumiere, painted family, Maelle

Renoir

Axons, axon island nevrons

Clea

All the other nevrons, also painted over painted Clea and Simon

Did Verso not create the painting?

Aline created humans

Child Verso's version of the canvas didn't have any humans. Just Esquie, Francois, the Gestrals and the Grandis

The second Sciel learned she's a paintress, she asked her husband to be brought back.
Speaking of which, he's nowhere to be seen in her ending

and considering there are people living in that canvas, I don't think it's a *certainty* that he'd do it.

You do remember he gommed every single inhabitant of Lumière the second he could, right?
and would you really keep a painting that killed two of your children in your home?

Yes, but Aline then hijacked it, because she couldn't let go of the last piecd of his son she has left. Then she created a make-believe family to cope with her grief. She still decided to bully Alicia in it, the sociopathic cunt.

it's V3 and Star Ocean all over again

Goddamn

He created the world, Esquie and gestrals to play with as a kid.
Then he brought Clea along and she created Nevrons for the gestrals to fight. At some point after this Alicia joined in on the fantasy world.
Then Verso died and Clea painted Lumiere and the people to self insert and pretend that she was living with a family where her son didn't die.
Then Renoir decided that Aline's spent too much time in the painting already and needs to come out. This lead to the fracture, the gommage, to Clea modifying the Nevrons into fucking up chroma, and where we are now in the story.

Verso just created a fantasy world with Esquie, Monoco and the gestrals, probably to cope with the death of his dog, there were no humans

young Verso didn't paint any people

Weird, Verso did paint Lumiere when he was a child, are you saying the place was just fucking empty?

...
Did you actually play the ending? Pierre and Sophie are both there. Literally sitting by Sciel and Gustave respectively.

Speaking of which, he's nowhere to be seen in her ending

absolute retard

Speaking of which, he's nowhere to be seen in her ending

anon look again

Wrong, Clea created Nevron to help Renoir

The second Sciel learned she's a paintress, she asked her husband to be brought back.

Speaking of which, he's nowhere to be seen in her ending

What? She's sitting right next to him in the opera house.

You do remember he gommed every single inhabitant of Lumière the second he could, right?

Well, yes, because he was trying to get his wife out of the canvas, and then his daughter out of the canvas. I agree he's motivated by that, but if they're dead then he'd have to be motivated by spite.

and would you really keep a painting that killed two of your children in your home?

Because there are innocent people living in it? Because your daughter would've been horrified to know? Because you gain nothing from it, and it won't bring them back? etc. Renoir just does not seem like the vengeful type.

Why do you think he painted Lumiere?

yes I was wrong, I forgot about that, my bad, he's the one with the manbun

Go to the infinity tower. Clea tells Alicia/your party about how she'd collaborated on the canvas with Verso even before Alicia was interested in joining in, when she still had her head stuck in a book.

Renoir is even the only person that actively takes a pause to apologize to painted Verso for Aline making him as he is.
He seems kind as Alicia says he is.

The realization that you lost both your wife AND your beloved daughter to this fucking canvas would probably make Renoir very spiteful towards it.

Is it me who is out of touch?

No, it's the canvas who is wrong.

Clea is a missing piece for me. I saw her for like 20 seconds at the most confusing moment possible

The problem start with Aline created humans inside the Canvas.

I dunno about this, but can the Canvas exist but without any humans to prevent unhealthy attachments like Alien and Alicia? Just the Gestrals, Nevrons, and such that can be allowed to exists I mean.

postgame is all about her

The bigger problem is the fact that all of it could have been resolved without player input -- 80% of the set up exists and transpires to facilitate the remaining 20%. It's nu/llywood writing defined by convenience, contrived drama and convolution -- a masoncattle nepo-baby's first attempt at vomitting bastardized symbolisn.

Maelle should return to the god's world and drive a knife into his throat before he recovered.

It's possible, sure, but not a certainty. If we never see him acting spiteful or accusatory towards the canvas residents', why would we assume he blames them? I think he just sees them as unfortunate collateral damage. It's like going out to stomp on the needles after your daughter overdoses, only the needles are a pretty painting full of innocent people that also contains a fragment of your son's soul. I don't think he'd leave it hanging in his atelier, but he's not gonna burn the thing.

I've made an interesting observation.
In every souls adjacent game, players call the save+heal+level up checkpoint a bonfire, no matter the game.
But not here, everyone calls them expedition flags, their real name.

I mean he does sound like a guy who has issues thinking things through. I am pretty sure there was a more efficient solution to getting Aline out of the canvas that doesn't involve setting a canvas on fire, but he immediately decided that scorched earth policy is the only solution.

I'm going to force him to do more things than just play a piano, desu.

The reason Aline came to that portrait to create Lumiere in the first place is because that portrait was the last/only portrait the family had that Verso made. It's their last living piece of his existence due to how a fragment of his soul is imparted onto the painting.
That's what's causing the unhealthy attachment, not the existence of humans.

They're distinct and thematically cool, plus the dark souls connection is kinda tenuous because it's a different genre.

He doesn't care.
Alicia and Aline's obsession with the canvas is all about him.
They both admit this and Alicia doesn't nearly care as much about the canvas people as people think.

>The problem start with Aline created humans inside the Canvas.

Aline creating the humans isn't the origin, it's a symptom, she wanted to play pretend in the place where Verso poured his soul into

uhh... my mother will always find the painting because she just will

my father will always burn the painting... because he just will, okay?

imagine the fate of your world resting on this insane family drama bullshit. poor bastards.

The canvas must continue to exist so Esquie can continue to exist.
No other thing matters.

Everyone here is ignoring the REAL argument for the verso ending -- If Maelle stays in the canvas, she won't paint any new worlds, and thus all the people who would've existed in them never will. It's just like real life, if you're a NEET you have no children and generate nothing. Maelle's future painting worlds owe their existence to her being forced out of this one. It's destroying one world to give rise to hundreds more.

That's just your assumption over both trying to sentimentally manipulate the other during the boss fight against the other, anon.

It's neat that they have different numbers to match the expeditions that went to each area.
Do we ever get to plant a 33 flag? I wasn't paying attention for some of act 2 and might have missed it

This game is definitive proof that video games are in fact art.

I do hope Alicia finds herself a cute Writer boyfriend and they go to create awesome worlds together.:)
That would actually be a fun idea for a sequel, come to think of it.

Can just Renoir cooperate with the inhabitants of Canvas to auto-eject any painters that stay longer than necessary?

Yeah right after defeating Aline. They comment on it being useless because they’re the last expedition

Expeditions plant flags multiple times. Expedition 33 has a flag in the manor, and one that's cutscene only at the place where you beat the paintress. Expedition zero has like 3 or 4 flags planted.

best jrpg since persona 5 is just persona 5 with parries

in the last area and in the manor

pick Verso ending

Alicia now has to live with her bitch sister that scorns her and psychotic mother that loathes her

father probably disappointed in her

she is worthless in war with writers

shit paintress so she can't make her own Canvas

forced to live as a worhless abandoned cripple with family that detests her

being an angsty lonely teenager who lost everyone dear to her she is probably going to kill herself soon

this is a good thing, actually, because Verso got what he wanted and muh bright color = good

Nope. Not going to happen, not on my watch. Play the piano, piano player!

Both endings disregard the feelings of the people who live inside the canvas
I sided with Maelle on that basis

Both endings fail to see a third path.
The Expedition was never about Maelle or Verso, it was about the people of Lumiere.
It was about securing a future for THEM. It was about restoring their world.

Verso's soul isn't tired because it's been a long time, he's tired because his canvas was been warped beyond recognition by intruders. It's not his work anymore. His fantasy playground was transformed into a cycle of death. Why would he want to keep painting this tragedy?

I really hope that if they release DLC, it includes a "true" ending where the right decision is made.
Maelle has the power, possibly, to undo the Fracture. Maybe not bring back everyone who died, but at least bring peace back to the world. Restore her brother's art, honor the truth of what little he left behind.
The "fate of the canvas" is neither Maelle's nor painted Verso's decision to make. All they have is a duty to undo the harm that's been done to something that didn't belong to them.

Counterpoint: It's Verso's world

Wrong, he only painted half of it, Cléa did the other half and she clearly states that Alicia should do what she wants with it and inside it. The more side content you do the less valid Verso's ending becomes.

delete your minecraft world

or

enslave the soul of your dead brother who heroically sacrificed himself to save your life while you slowly rot to death

I wasn't paying attention for some of act 2 and might have missed it

And it shows. Maelle plants the 33 flag after you kill the Paintress. There is a big pomp about it.

It surprises me greatly, that no one catches on to it: Alicia, as mute, depends on writing, in a world in which her family of painters is at war with writers.

Potential life that is virtually unlimited is meaningless in this context, compared to the millions of Lumierians whose chroma and associated self still exist in the world.

minecraft world

you disingenous motherfucker

Verso's soul isn't tired because it's been a long time, he's tired because his canvas was been warped beyond recognition by intruders.

You know the people of Lumiere are intruders themselves right? Verso didn't paint them, Aline did.

minecraft world

nigger

Great, let's force a mentally ill individual to get even more traumatized so she can go dump all her mentally unhinged drama on innocent creations bound to her whims. Only amped up to eleven since she is mourning an entire world worth of people.

The more side content you do the less valid Verso's ending becomes.

the opposite actually
the more post-main content you do, the more you learn about Clea's perspective that painted people aren't people and it's all just an entertainment and you can and SHOULD do whatever the fuck you want because it's all toys anyway
and Maelle ending is just exactly that - Alicia taking Clea's lesson to heart and becoming selfish

I’ve seen people refer to painted Verso. Did I miss him being replaced by the real one when Maelle was replaced by Alicia. I know he didn’t know everything throughout the story

Sorry I was alt tabbed and shitposting that day, guess I'll play NG+

Almost every major optional Act 3 location is connected to Clea.

Where was that in the game?
Why would Aline paint--presumably--an army to help her fight Renoir and put them AAAAAAAAAALL the way on the other end of the world and also not give them any requisite knowledge to help her

alicia's a good girl, she'd get over it. her parents would show her how to paint graciously and then she'd get into the world-making groove.

really, when you understand that they've made hundreds, possibly thousands of worlds, you can kind of understand why two formerly productive world-making gods getting trapped in just one is such a big problem.

Verso aint even a real person anymore so his choice really doesnt fucking matter. Maelle letting him go aint for Verso. Its so she can move on and go back to "the real world". Living in the hellscape that is her miserable existence given the time period is a punishment much worse then dying peacefully in your fantasies till you die.

No, painted Verso is always painted Verso. Real Verso is the little boy.

Canvas saved

Prospective writer wants to prove himself by coming to finish the job on the dessendres

Finds Alicia in her bed

Does not rape the bacon, but rather feels hesitation as he invokes his powers later thinking of her

This pulls him into the Canvas and brings in a bunch of his shit with him

Race against time to get rid of the new Nevrons that only he can kill and the anomalies born of their power mixing together

Romeo and Juliet shit blossoms

He's still fine with them

Why would Aline paint--presumably--an army to help her fight Renoir and put them AAAAAAAAAALL the way on the other end of the world and also not give them any requisite knowledge to help her

Because she didn't paint them to fight Renoir. She painted them to larp as Parisians while she pretends that her son never died. They only fucked off to fight her as a paintress after Renoir's forceful eviction attempt resulted in the fracture.

The millions (more likely a few thousand) of Lumièrians who are doomed anyway once Alicia dies and Renoir/Clea erase the Canvas?
If they don't drag her out before that, that is.

escapism bad stories dont work when you give the escapism magical properties, it seems like they are aging at roughly the same rate, so what are even the downsides? if you can live forever in a world of whatever you want who cares if you have paint on your face in the real world, why would you even leave the painting? they could have atleast made the house messy and made the characters abusing painted worlds like gaunt or have really bad skin

>Alicia now has to live with her bitch sister that scorns her and psychotic mother that loathes her

do the tower, she's just fed up with her playing the helpless drama queen

>father probably disappointed in her

she managed to beat him and did what she was told, she even came out of her shell, he must be the proudest father around

>she is worthless in war with writers

she's arguably really strong based on her in-game achievements

>shit paintress so she can't make her own Canvas

you don't know that

>forced to live as a worhless abandoned cripple with family that detests her

they love her, that's universal

>being an angsty lonely teenager who lost everyone dear to her she is probably going to kill herself soon

she got over it, and I can fix her

>this is a good thing, actually, because Verso got what he wanted and muh bright color = good

yes

Nope. Not going to happen, not on my watch. Play the piano, piano player!

we are in the early 1900's, based on the real life events, g*rmans probably have the musicians, and yes, they will play the piano, do the pling pling plong Hermann

Alicia takes responsibility for Verso's death

That's already what's killing her despite the game kind of implying that Verso was looking for a way out of his parents railroading him into painting and thus jumped on the occasion when the fire happened to make his suicide look like a sacrifice.

Verso's painting only had Esquie and the Gestrals, his toys.
Aline painted her family and random people from Paris, who then lived and reproduced and had their society until Marika shattered the Elden Ring

it seems like they are aging at roughly the same rate

They're not. Time flows faster in the canvas than outside.

There is no real Verso.
That canvas was originally made by Verso before dying "irl", he didn't create a version of himself like he did with his family, because he was the "main character". The Verso you meet in game was painted afterwards along with everyone else by Aline, that's the only Verso.

Don't forget his dog

Soul splice Verso says he doesn't care about people painting on the Canvas, he cares about people fighting in it. He just wants his world to be like music, a celebration of passion and joy.
Easily achiveable if your parents stop the Kaiju battles and your older sister stops diarrheaing nightmares to fuel it.

that's the only Verso.

There's also the soul fragment of the real verso that was poured into the painting, aka

You're crazy, Verso doesn't care about people changing his original creation. He WELCOMES it because it makes things more fun.

Soul-Verso is tired and wants to end things because the Canvas is tearing his family apart. On brand with what kind of a person Verso was, he's fine with sacrificing the final sliver of his own soul to save his family.

Her most OP skills is literally called Stendahl. You can't get more obvious if you wanted. She wanted to be a writer similarly to how Verso wanted to be a musician.

yeah, good point. the whole reason escapism is bad is that it makes you (or your family) miserable in real life and you lie to yourself. it's a total trade of eudaemonic happiness for hedonic happiness.
but the painting offers eudaemonic happiness in spades. it's a great, adventurous life you can live in there.

and Maelle ending is just exactly that - Alicia taking Clea's lesson to heart and becoming selfish

In the dialogue preceding that exact line in the Endless Tower, Clea tells Alicia to not fall in the same trap as Aline.
When she tells her to do what she wants, and if she doesn't like something do something else, she's alluding to the preceding conflict with Aline about Alicia wanting to be a writer, same as Verso wanting to be a musician.

She blames her naivity for trusting the Writers, but that doesn't mean Clea disapproves of her not wanting to be a Painter.

While you completely destroy your real family as you kill yourself.

She painted them to live in a fantasy world with her "fake" family before her husband showed up to smash the pained world and force her out. After this happened she can only contact them by painting the number on the monolith.

None of them were brainwashed (literally) into believing they were part of those worlds for half of their lifespan, anon.
She is not losing "a random painting", she is literally losing one of two realities that were as palpable as the other.
So no, she would most certainly not get out of it unscarred. And they don't seem the kind of family to think therapy is a choice.

You're pretty much saying what I said with other words, doing side content gives more and more justification for Maelle's ending, thus giving less grounds for Verso's,

Oh alright, I thought he grew up there. I wonder if the depiction is more genuine because his soul is there

I can fix her

doing side content gives more and more justification for Maelle's ending

Other way around, the moment you do the reacher there's no reason to even remotely think her ending is worth doing and if you go through it you realize what a massive hypocrite she is and how hard she's lying.

still, if she goes on to make more worlds, it's a net positive. the painters have a responsibility to bring happy lives into this world. they can create utopias, and they do, ever day.
they just can't live in them, because then their holy duties are arrested, and no more happy lives are made.

She will never paint again? Nigger how about they all never paint again. We need a writer POV sequel featuring total painter death

still, if she goes on to make more worlds, it's a net positive. the painters have a responsibility to bring happy lives into this world. they can create utopias, and they do, ever day.

You're awfully naive. They don't care about the lives of the painted. They care about their art, and the process of painting. They've probably painted multiple hellscapes for the sake of art.

their holy duties

Total Painter Death, I say. No mercy for demiurges.

Neither are more genuine.
The soul self was imparted when Verso made the canvas, it lacks all of the experiences that the real Verso had in the years after making it. If you're a Star Trek nerd you can consider soul Verso and real Verso as the two Rikers from the transporter accident episode. They're the same person up to one point, at which they diverge and may as well be two separate people.
The painted version was created from Aline's memories of Verso. It holds none of Verso's private thoughts and feelings, only the ones that Aline ever witnessed from him.

if you took an adult painted person and then just drew a moustache on them what would happen? would they be shocked that such a thing just appeared on their face or would their memories just change to make them think its always been like that

What? If you understand the perspective that painted people aren't real then it justifies Verso's ending even more, because there's no moral dilemma here, no need to preserve the canvas and it's inhabitants. And it IS objectively better for the family to put the canvas away.

Hell, Alicia can always live out her fantasy in a different canvas anyway. There is ZERO reason to continue this one.

My wriggas.

Considering what you see in the Axon island, this is not even a debate.
Everything Renoir paints is in constant suffering. They point that much out.

If you understand the perspective that painted people aren't real

That is the perspective of the Painters because they have completely fucked up morality. It doesn't mean it's true.

isn't this what renoir meant by aline teaching him 'the proper way to use our gift'? they seem like kind, gracious people. she taught him not to become too wrapped up in his own creations, so as not to do a disservice to the lives he had yet to create. they are benevolent creator gods, they just destroyed this one canvas because of an unfortunate family tragedy.

The movie will make Maelle's ending canon because it's the correct decision.

painter vs writer war sequel

writer main character

main villian and leader of painters is a hitler like character

That's what the dlc should be, not from the writers perspective, but an alternate route where Gustave survives and goes on to use his lumina converter and engineering prowess to wrestle control of the canvas away from the painters.

they have completely fucked up morality

They have exactly the same morality we have regarding fictional characters created with our imagination.

Clair Obscur sequel featuring writers as the cast

final enemy is Clea waging her one woman war on them

i don't think the axons have conscious beings in them. they're just weird conceptual gifts to his family. i'm sure his actual utopian creations are much less strange.

but... Hitler was a writer...

Everything Renoir paints is in constant suffering.

No? Sirene for example was perfectly fine?

young aspiring Painter gets snubbed by the art world and joins the Writers with his polemic best seller Mein Kampf and rises in power to enact TPD

K I N O
I
N
O

Hitler was a painter

In this fantasy world, he didn't fail as a painter.

I can't step into my imagination and feel the sensations in lifelike fashion now can I?
The moment any medium gave me the option to do that (and have others also access my same world, ergo not being an isolated environment anymore), normal morals apply. Simple as.

the moment you do the reacher there's no reason to even remotely think her ending is worth doing

Why? The reacher shows how much of a self-serving sociopath Verso is, having the gall to think he had the right to lecture painted Alicia on how precious life is -after spending half a century planning the killing of her family so that he could kill himself in turn- and being extremely mad when he didn't get what he wanted despite painted Alicia being clearly done with him after her letter thus directly asking Alicia to send her to her family without talking to him.

actually this is better
kino in every way

The elevator platforms are literally people bound in cloth driven mad by the desire to dance yet basically only being able to squirm

maellebros...

I can't step into my imagination and feel the sensations in lifelike fashion now can I?

You can't yet, but give technology time to advance and you will.
Once VR becomes crazy lifelike what then, you will start considering video game characters as real?

Absolute misread of his character out of sheer hatred.
AGAIN

painted people aren't real

it justifies Verso's ending even more

Why would you listen to someone who isn't real? Are you insane? His justification is the reason why you shouldn't listen to him.

That's the stupidest take from the Reacher I have seen so far. Congrats.

Sure. If my brain considers them worth of every other form of reaction I will give them the same treatment and care. Probably even more so than real people sice they would be born of me, after all.

shows her dad absolutely cares

speaks extremely fondly of him and her family because she loves them

actually kills alicia when she asks him to instead of puppeteering her corpse

Alicia being a brat because she doesn't want to move on from Verso's death is the only take you should get from the ending of the game.

"Hey, I let you father/brother figure die because it allows me to reach my goals by manipulating you easier!"

Not a sociopath

Versofags everyone, blind to their actions because the camera focuses on them.

Sirene is trapped in prison of her own making, all axons are suffering in some way because Renoir loves metaphors

The choice is beyond Verso vs Maelle dumbass, as usual you can't fucking touch anything beyond the surface level.
It was all about what's best for the family. Painted Verso can go eat shit I don't give a fuck but Maelle's ending is not good for anyone, not even herself.

His family>>>>random people
Simple as.

a mini boss was locked in the basement sewing over and over for no end

lifts were made of trapped living being who couldn't even move the way they wanted

the good looking sirens end up conflomerating as an algamanation that looks like a floating ball, the Glissando twitches around in pain in every single move

yeah... perfectly fine

Okay well, it's time for pills

Renoir loves metaphor

You can say that again.

You mean the family he spent the whole game trying to kill for another?

Sirene is just his way of calling his wife self absorbed.
Which is completely right, she's kind of a cunt when it comes to art.

Nonsense analogy. It's a magical world with people made of magic, ensouled with chroma instead of Allah juice or whatever.
Just because the Dessendres treat them as disposable NPCs due to years of desensitization to their demiurge powers, doesn't mean that their existence isn't valid.
Any analogy to real life games/VR/chatbot/etc. is contrived as fuck

Literally states the following word for word: "You never cared about what she wants. Not you, or Renoir. I can relate."

Fast forward to ending

Verso: do what I tell you bitch I know better I don't care about what you want

I wonder why is Alicia lashing out?

Our drafts collide
In this endless light
But it’s time to say goodbye
Until Next Life

I know how easy it is to get sucked into these paintings

I've spent the last decade and a half seeing what this painting has done to your mother

I don't want the same to happen to you

Let's erase this canvas and paint with moderation in the future

Is it possible to refute him?

Oh shit, we have an ontology expert here.
What is magic again?

why should I care about any Dessendre not named Renoir?

You mean the ones he kills?
Or the one he traumatized, lied to and allowed to remain brainwashed so he could use her for his own devices?
Sociopath. Simple as.

Modders > Developers > Writers ,> Painters

Unless you have the mentality of a 16 year old teenage girl or actually thing Alicia gives a shit about painted people not named verso, no.

You do seem in need of em. Bye bye.

and paint with moderation in the future

that's the problem. These faggots should not be in charge of the powers of creation

Not computer code at least.

Oh, there's more: she's the only one with a rapier. Basically all of her attacks mimic writing motions, whereas anyone else actually swings their weapons and arms.

Fuck, so really that painting being the last part of his soul, while real, is misleading. They can’t be in his world if it’s gone, but the canvas being destroyed doesn’t prevent them from spending time with the guy we see in the game

he should put more weight on their responsibility to the things they must paint. on the worlds that won't come into being otherwise.

also he didn't need to destroy it lol he could've just done this

maelle was just less retarded because she wasn't about to erase an entire population of humans

They were already erased. Why the FUCK does no one get this? Renoir already killed them all. Every single human was dead. Maelle only makes imitations to make herself happy, but they are not the same people.

But you are right about

game's ending is retarded because it wants you to care about lune and sciel and gustave as humans but also to act like their lives don't matter

The game totally dropped the ball on everything. On one hand it is saying they are nothing more than dolls, on the other hand it is trying to get you to care about them while ignoring how horrible the family's selfish actions actually are.

They're not. They're just one group of people. It's not a stretch to believe that the writers can do that shit too, except with words rather than art.

witch! kill the paintress!

b-but the writers do it too

so?

Why doesn't Verso have any abilities called like Crescendo or Staccato or some other shit, that would be Kino

It's not that they don't matter, is that they are dead and Alicia is keeping them on lunatic life support and you shouldn't support that.

So did you try actually talking to mom or did you just go ahead and start dropping Docs of us all over the place while screeching autistically?

Uhhhhhhh...

And thus, we don't trust the hypocrite.

Giving zero consideration for the existence of Lumierians.
Nigger just tell them to fight to kick Aline and Alicia out of the painting, they can clearly do it.

first half was good, didnt care about the family drama.

head proportions too big.
arms too small.

artists failed anatomy class.

Renoir already killed them all. What you are advocating is that Maelle make imitations of the people already erased so she can live her fantasy.

To further emphasize that he's not the real Verso.

/thread

because all the characters in the game act like they can be brought back, as long as you have access to their chroma. even verso concedes this. and two of them are brought back. so refusing to bring them back is on the level with killing them, which verso is also responsible for.

also he didn't need to destroy it lol he could've just done this

He literally couldn't. It's been literally MINUTES since Aline came out of the painting and she already tracked it down from where Alicia hid it and she's back inside.
His family can't exist as long as the painting does.

Of course you can, but if it weren’t so tiring, it would be crucial that you understand that it isn’t real

Lune and Sciel were brought back seamless because their personhood exists in their chroma-soul. As long as it exists for everyone, there can be brought back.
There's nothing hinting that the Sophie and Gustave at that ending are ersatz.

What do you get of coming back to spout headcanon there is no means of proving over and over and over?
Nobody cares dude. Your nonsense assumptions have no basis but your own retarded assumptions you like to tell yourself.
Get a life.

why dont the parents have faces?

Giving zero consideration for the existence of Lumierians.

Maybe if his family wasn't so busy killing themselves over broken memories, they would be able to leave the painting alone and visit it from time to time and reminisce about Verso in a good way, Renoir wouldn't need to get rid of it because his family can't handle the paint crack
Just a though, because he doesn't want to setroy it either

Gestrals in disguise.

Videogames are not art. Grow up, you little shit.

because their personhood exists in their chroma-soul

You should actually watch the scene where Verso tells Alicia how to paint them

just use your memories

it's not accuracy it's verisimilitude

It's about passing as the real deal.

then they would've kicked her out again. as many times as it takes. it's not like she got stronger.
plus, she was only stepping in to try to keep it from being destroyed.

normalniggers suddenly agree with genocide if some sad sack of shit just wants to die and take everyone down with him

It's once again the game contradicting itself since the repainted people include details that Maelle wouldnt know about

Anon Babble in almost any star trek thread : ackshually you don't get transported at all. You're killed because you're torn apart at the atomic level. What comes out on the other side may have your atomic make up, memories, and thought patterns, but it's not you, just a clone.

Anon Babble in an e33 thread : why yes these painted people who were all erased into paint and repainted into existence are all still the same people.

God you are retarded. Can you please take this as a concession and just go?
Your stupidity hurts my eyes

they arent real, its like saying closing the chatgpt tab is killing someone

I have never seen so much projection in my life
People think Alicia will never be happy because all of these failed men on Anon Babble messed up their own formative years

Just because you like to make retarded comments doesn't make them accurate. Take yours meds.

she still lived there for 16 years, she still has rough memories of them

natural form painters take within a canvas? practical form over substance?
Alicia is the only one who paints a normal look over herself because she lives and interacts with the others. Neither Aline or Renoir has the reason to paint a face over themselves, Renoir only does when talking with Alicia but drops it during a fight because there's not need for it.

who gives a fuck about the Dessendres, this is about Lumiere

Alicia would know about it, because for all intents and purposes she is a god, and what kind of god wouldn't have omniscience?

this contrived nonsense again

Would painting a world where a million immortal children get boiled in vats of liquid shit 24/7 be completely amoral? They're not real. Who cares if they perceive reality with their senses identically to us and have a mental construct of their self, they are worth nothing.

Are you real?

I swear he said the exact opposite

Imaginative things have no rights

Lumiere can go be made over there, in some other canvas.

not without the same chroma

Painters are not omniscient or omnipresent in their world though.
She "knew" how to repaint them accurately because that information was retained in their chroma, independent of who painted them, it's effectively their soul

There would be absolutely nothing wrong with that

You don't need the same chroma, you just need the same artist.
Last I checked Aline ain't dead.

see

Yeah, I need a specific in-game text about this too. I don't remember Esquie or Monoco mentioning anything about Lumière being newer or anything. It makes sense, of course, that Aline would live in old Lumière and that she would have created it, I just don't remember it being explicitly stated.

She "knew" how to repaint them accurately

But she didn't paint them accurately. She painted them "close enough". Verisimilitude, not accuracy.

Do you start your day in panic every morning and mourn all the people in your dreams you just murdered by waking up?

monkey torture videos are based as fuck since they're not human, they can't fight back, I'm their superior and they exist for my entertainment

but the monkeys can also talk and make art and invent technology and love and hate and have society and a sense of self BUT THEY AREN'T HUMAN DOE

lmao, you asked why and got

because

society/family need you to suffer for them to be happy, fulfilled

just kill yourself

You can tell the hylics really don't like contemplation.

and Alicia doesn't nearly care as much about the canvas people as people think

False. She genuinely does care about Gustave and his sister. She lived an entire second life, and even if you believe it was all fake, the emotions she felt were real and left an indelible mark on her soul. She never stopped missing Gustave, even when she awakened her memories of being Alicia.

simple fact that Verso was not talented enough to create humans. Note how simplistic gestrals and grandis are in comparison

They’re real. A painting is not. That’s not for me to define, because you already know it intrinsically

Yeah, I need a specific in-game text about this too

Anon, you don't need this information to be spoonfed this much. The game presents it to you.

lore tells you that Renoir and Aline's fights have been erasing Aline's creations, starting from the oldest.

this is what the number on the monolith represents

Monoco and Verso talk about how gestrals don't gommage

Esquie has been around for centuries within the portrait's time

it only affects the people of Lumiere

Put all these details together and it spells out that Aline created the people of Lumiere.

contrived analogy world champion

My dreams only exists as electrochemical stimulations in my head.
The painted people exist in the painted world in the Canvas, a parallel world independent of its observer. The demiurges can fuck off and it'll continue to exist.

So, what are the Dessendre descendants up to now?

What makes their suffering less valid?

You're right, I forgot the detail that the Gommage only hits non-family Lumierians.

always though it was just a reference of the event, since in French "Dessendres" can mean "descendant" or "ashes"

Worshipping BWC.

computer graphics...
slowly losing jobs to AI...

How was painted Clea able to act as a Nevron factory? Presumably the painted Clea couldn't originally do this. Did real Clea impart a small portion of her soul to painted Clea when she got overpainted?

Sending a letter to the Dessendres Fainmailbox to commission interactive furry art...
Hope it won't be Renoir who paints it

I couldn't care less if the sun expands into a red giant and eats Earth billions of years after I die.

Then not being real. Did I just commit a crime against humanity in my head? No. You have to draw a line

Pretty much, Clea can paint over and strengthen her targets like she did with Simon

so this whole fucking game is just a story of a boy making a minecraft server, inviting his mom and then dying and her going nuts and making shit in it to not let him go, while he invited his sister. And by the end everyone wants to destroy the server because evil, even though it's the only place said sister has to not be mute/burned/half-blind and in pain?

That's a completely different timeframe.
In Maelle's ending, we're talking of the end still coming for the population's children and grandchildren at the latest.

That line dissipates once you project that world into a material accessible realm that exists independent of your observation.
It's not difficult to understand.

The painted senpai has replica painted powers. It's how painted Renoir had that touch of death move when he tried to eject Maelle/Alicia at the end of act 1. It's nowhere near as good as the real thing though, which is why Maelle's death didn't take.

It's not the only place. Any painting can grant that.
It's Verso's canvas and it's always been about that sentimentality.

Hah. It's been so long that I completely forgot the first three letters of family gets filtered into that.

If that's your metric for reality, I am sorry but neither of you are real, as you only exists insofar as the faculties of my mind parse whatever ostensible physicality constitutes your existence from my arbitary perspective. You exist as nothing but "electroechemical stimulations", indistingushable to that dream I did not yet wake from.

yes, it seems possible to pass on a sliver of Painter powers to Creations
it sounds dangerous as fuck and it turn create Creation-made abominations like Simon but it does sound practical, especially in the case of Clea turning paintedClea into a never-ending Nevron factory which would be impractical to do by herself

Gustave will live and his kid with sophie will live a long full life and have their own kid. That's more than he or any of the current denizens of lumiere could have asked for.

You quite literally do not have the means of knowing that.
You have no idea what will happen going forward. You only know her initial intentions at the time, and that's it.
Everything else is assumption, because it's intended to be that way. You don't know if she will go through with dying, you don't know if Renoir would do anything to the canvas even if she does, you simply don't know. That's the intention. And with all her friends there with centuries of working her through the motions, there is no reason to assume only negative outcomes.

will live a long full life and have their own kid

Given the time dilation presented during the game, it's like 50-60 years tops before Alicia dies.

centuries

Assumptions

Given the time dilation presented during the game, it's like 50-60 years tops before Alicia dies.

Huh, do you think it'd be a mercy for Alicia to reset the countdown on the monument so the people of Lumiere know how much time is left, or would it be better to keep them in the dark?

She already wrote "go home dad" on the monolith. It's not blank anymore.

Assumptions based on the information the game gives us, yes.
Given the state Aline, one of the most experienced and powerful Painters, is in after 67+ years, and Maelle being in for 16, it won't be more than a few decades more in-Canvas before Amicia is in the same state, if not far less.
This is outright confirmed by Renoir multiple times. "You'll die. You've already been in longer than you should."

Being a convincing virtual world doesn’t make it more real

to that of a dream*

Yadayada.

Denounce Xi Jinping

And I disagree.

You know, it makes the Maelle ending even more baffling. Do all these people know they have a literal goddess walking among them? What are their thoughts on Verso being repainted?
How would Gustave have dealt with the revelation of the truth of their world? Why are they smiling watching a piano performance by someone who doesn't want to be there, while they should have the knowledge that Renoir/Clea can hop back in any second because Maelle/Alicia's real body is wasting away outside?

One could come to the conclusion that none of them have any real agency because Alicia has fully exterted her power over them.

One could come to the conclusion that none of them have any real agency because Alicia has fully exterted her power over them.

That's very much the implication of that ending.

No it isn't. Retard.

The "girl who never fit in because everyone not named Gustave or Emma thinks she's weird" is now suddenly a guest acknowledged by all in attendance in a concert hall to watch someone play the piano

not Alicia exerting her power over them at all

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

You know, it makes the Maelle ending even more baffling. Do all these people know they have a literal goddess walking among them?

Probably just the Expedition 33 crew. Regardless, Maelle/Alicia are gonna be treated like a queen for being part of the mission that finally ended their potential extinction.

everyone wearing the exact same white clothes

except sophie and gustave who wear the clothes they last used

It's prettt bad.

Not same Anon.

It isn't as much her exercising control, as it is a shift in power dynamics. You see it when Verso goes through the portal. And Alicia is like "You shouldn't be able to be here" and "Why did you run in, its dangerous for you here."

She says it in a very controlled manner, she doesn't lose it until Verso tries to take little Verso's hand to end the canvas. Alicia has a lot of control over the situation.

You can actually feel the panick in her voice because that part of the canvas isn't for painted people.

I'll keep saying it: Maelle is dead in Act 3. The chroma that was her was erased by Renoir's gommage. Alicia is a completely different character larping with her memories.

Existentially speaking you would definitely become a different person if you had 16 years of memories duplicate in your brain.
That said probably applies both ways. Alicia as she is supposed to be is also dead.
The result is an amalgam of both.

You cannot teach what you don't know. This applies to creation as proxy for teaching (as "creation of purpose"), too. Maelle couldn't create happiness, purpose or genuinely agentic, living things, because she has not retained, much less understood either.
The people in the cutscene are all meatpuppets -- when Cerso hesitates, there's an expression of doubt and an ever so slight froen on her face. The camera pans over the faces of the guests and reveals them all to be mimic'ing Maelle's expression.

Alicia, as she was meant to be.

Until act 3, as you said. Where Aliclia's scars consume Maelle completely.

That's some high level of gymnastics to complicate a very straightforward ending.

Contemplate the physological process of death. You become unconscious and your heart stops beating, yet the engine of your mind, your brain, stays functional and you enter a dream state. Within your dreams, time itself becomes a tool of your mind -- you can spend days, weeks, months, years, centuries and millenia in a dream, while in what you believe to be the "real world" a fraction of that time passes. Now, when parts of your brain start to die off as a consequence of oxygen deprivation, the faculties of your mind dissolve and the dream with it. It may intermittently turn into a nightmare, but ultimately becomes abstract and incomprehensible. If you narrated the change you're perceiving, you'd not just struggle to find words to describe it, you would gradually lose your ability to speak and think entirely. Eventually you'd become silent, oblivious to what is happening and to what you are, have been and will be -- you'd lose your cognition and then eventually your sentience.
Nothing stops this process from turning into a comvolution, from playing out over and over again within your dream-realities. Between your the "start of your death" to the "end of your death", you may live infinite lives.

So, when did Maelle die and when did Alicia get born into the world?

Pay attention to the expressions. The camera pans over all faces for a reason.

Sure man. Whatever you wan.

She becomes a mix of both, old alicia and old maelle as singular individuals are gone.
This is both Maelle and Alicia, nothing of them was lost except their existence as two separate entities.