It's time to settle it Anon Babble

you think larian is modern?

The only case I would pick RTwP is if we're comparing Fallout against BG2 or something.

Fallout's turn-based is the most tedious shit on the planet.

Yeah? Only zoomers pretend they're relevant

It's been settled for literally decades. All other things being equal, RTwP is far superior. It was literally developed as the next stage in gameplay, taking proper advantage of the medium of computer games being different than pen and paper.

People will cope around this by pointing to examples of bad RTwP games and good TB games. All this proves is that RTwP games are harder to develop and balance properly. TB games are easier to make so there are of course going to be far more good TB games than good RTwP games just as there are far more bad games than good games of both categories. But no TB game can come close to a great RTwP game like BG2. The refusal for modern developers to even attempt making a good RTwP RPG is a key element of why the modern games industry is stale and dying.

Also, BG3 is a poor game even by TB standards.

RTwP-fags have already lost years ago yet still cling onto their delusion. RTwP's only benefit is that you can speed through trash encounters. But that can easily be solvable by just making more interesting encounters rather than having trash.

Then why do most modern TB games have "auto" options designed to skip through trash encounters? Seems to me like that's a problem that occurs more in TB games.

Austistic janny adspamming tenent gate again

Don't ask him why in BG3 every faction in the game is neutral to you and there's only like 3 mandatory fights in the game

I had significantly more fun with BG3's turn based gameplay than BG1 and 2's RTwP gameplay. But I also don't play Dungeons and Dragons, so maybe I just felt that second edition was too complicated. I'd like to see what RTwP feels like with 5th edition.

Irrelevant to my point. RTwP's only benefit is the fact that pointless encounters can be gone through faster, if you are arguing that TB games have also solved that glaring flaw then RTwP has literally nothing left.

I only know of two RTwP games that did the system right because they were actually REAL TIME with pause: Dragon Age Origins and 7.62 High Calibre.
Both games feature what is expected of a real time game such as snapiness, cancelling actions and animations, no obfuscated systems such as turns or rounds. Every other implementation I've come across, even in Bioware's own previous games like KotOR, have turns or initiatives that make it feel you're just playing a shittier turn based game. The definite slap in the face was when I played Pathfinder, and the game actually felt more fluid in turn based than in the default RTwP mode.

Turn BASED > real time with cringe.

there's no strategizing in RTwP, at least with turn based you can pretend youre making a decision

I'd like to see what RTwP feels like with 5th edition.

It'd literally just be a simplified, streamlined version of NWN 1/2.

RTwP's only benefit is the fact that pointless encounters can be gone through faster

Wrong. RTwP inherently has more potential for player and enemy tactics, counter-tactics, and responsivity.

If I'm a squishy d4 HD mage and I see a big bad scary monster turn towards me, I am going to IMMEDIATELY drop whatever the fuck I'm doing and RUN AWAY until one of my fighter friends can intercept the monster.

In RTwP I can do that. In TB, I'm forced to sit still while the monster turns around, runs toward me, and starts fucking my shit up. Because it's "his turn", which means everyone else is magically frozen in time.

It's a silly and artificial restraint put on the player. But it's useful for devs, because instead of having to think of creative ways to put backliners in danger, they can just say "lol no um he just hits you because uh I say he does no you can't do anything". But this also means that you can't have truly squishy glass cannon characters in that game. And so you end up with slop like BG3, where there is zero benefit to playing any given class over any other. All are more or less equal at dealing and mitigating damage, no gameplay skill required.

TB games are still struggling to capture the most basic of basics that RTwP was created specifically to solve. They're decades behind. RTwP is the next evolution over that form of primitive gameplay, which is really just a slightly faster version of PnP gameplay. There's no real reason why BG3 couldn't have been a PnP game. It doesn't take advantage of the medium of VIDEO games in any meaningful way. You can't say the same about the classic BG trilogy.

Jagged alliance 3 was pretty fun but outside of that rtwp is lame

Real time, everything else is a relic of an era limited by low computing power.

RTwP. The last areas in BG3 are so fucking insanely boring while you wait for 5000 monsters to analyze the map and decide what to do, meanwhile you're controlling like 6 people at most it's fucking retarded.

turn combat into a slideshow to continuously dole out orders

Or

use AI scripts for the game to play itself.

It's a shit system anon.

In RTwP I can do that. In TB, I'm forced to sit still while the monster turns around, runs toward me, and starts fucking my shit up. Because it's "his turn", which means everyone else is magically frozen in time.

You know what that is called? Poor positioning and bad planning, something you have to solve strategically instead of abusing the fact that movement isn't tied to the internal round timer. Yeah I too have kited enemies in Icewind Dale, and NWN. It is silly more than anything.

TB games are still struggling to capture the most basic of basics that RTwP was created specifically to solve. They're decades behind.

Right. That is why RTwP fucking died and was even replaced with TB in Owlcat games for example. RTwP is an interesting experience in wanting games to flow better while leaving the option for paused time and careful consideration. But it is merely a half-assed measure that play worse than both actual real time or TB.

BG1 was supposed to be turn based until the devs were forced to make it real time because of games like Diablo.

Literally the opposite. The engine was retrofitted from a cancelled RTS game, and Interplay had Bioware make a DnD game to flex their acquisition of the license. Why do zoomers say ignorant shit so confidently?

RTwP is great and real cool, BUT D&D was, is, and has always been a turnbased game. And trying to awkwardly translate it into something real-time, with or without pause, was always a poor idea.
The original BG and the other forgotten realms RPGs, were all good in spite of RTwP. RTwP games should be built from systems actually made for RTwP.
Things are lost in translation when you try to turn a turnbased system into RTwP. The opposite is surely true too.

>turn combat into a slideshow to continuously dole out orders

So... turn-based?

use AI scripts for the game to play itself.

So... turn-based where you lack full party control.

There is literally no criticism of RTwP that you can't also apply to TB, anon. Only difference is that RTwP at least gives the POTENTIAL for good devs to mitigate those issues. Meanwhile every single TB games struggles in the exact same way. Slow, clunky, uninspired, lacking meaningful class distinctions, etc.

RTwP or turn based?

Yes.
Design it turn based first but give us the choice to enable rtwp mode.

Only difference is that RTwP at least gives the POTENTIAL for good devs to mitigate those issues. Meanwhile every single TB games struggles in the exact same way. Slow, clunky, uninspired, lacking meaningful class distinctions, etc.

Every single TB game struggles in the exact same way

I mean if you haven't played TB games then just say so.

Now I want to play a DnD RTS

instead of abusing the fact

Again: if I was ACTUALLY a fragile wizard, and I saw a big scary guy with a big fuckoff sword shove his way past the front line of fighters and head towards me, I would IMMEDIATELY stop casting and start running my ass off. That isn't "abusing a system", it's what ANY normal person would do in that situation. If your game does not allow me to take the most obvious and effective course of action to mitigate danger, that's a SEVERE flaw in that game. If your player characters are FORCED to be dumber and less responsive than any random Joe would be in that situation, that is a BIG PROBLEM.

This is why most JRPGs and the like don't fucking bother with movement at all, because it's less immersion-shattering to just say "uh your wizard got hit somehow" than to SHOW it happening in a way that does not make any sense.

gog.com/en/game/dungeons_dragons_dragonshard
Never played it, but you can give it a shot if you'd like

Show me a turn-based game that has such drastically meaningful class distinctions as the BG trilogy. Because in those games an unprotected mage goes down fucking INSTANTLY. If you don't have a dedicated thief in your party, then traps will fuck you up hard. If you don't have a divine caster to give you certain protections, you'll get your asshole ripped out by vampires and the like as well. You NEED to have a well-balanced RPG party or you are in for a REALLY bad time. In BG3 and pretty much every turn-based game I can think of, class is mainly an aesthetic choice. Some will be stronger than others, but there's no reason why you can't beat BG3 with any ridiculous party composition you want just as easily as with the supposedly ideal fighter/thief/mage/cleric setup.

Looking at a video it seems like a mix between lotr bfme and warcraft 3, a bit weird

Immersion and realism argument

As if RTwPfags couldn't get more homosexual.

Immersion is crucial in a ROLE-PLAYING GAME, anon. Go find some other bing bang wahoo title if you think that's not important.

Arguing that gameplay systems should strive towards realism and immersion over actually designing a fun to play experience is retarded and is one of the great poisons of this industry.

inb4"Hitting space and selecting my wizard to run away and my fighter to intercept and then unpausing is CRUCIAL to my enjoyment"

You could also just... position your wizard better so that the enemy has to waste its turn moving up to you. Having effectively wasted that enemy's turn, giving you a strategic advantage.

What's the last succesful game with RTwP?

"um actually if you allow your character to run that makes it impossible for a fun system!"

What the fuck are you talking about?

You could also just... position your wizard better so that the enemy has to waste its turn moving up to you. Having effectively wasted that enemy's turn, giving you a strategic advantage.

And what do you do afterwards, hm? Now that the enemy is one turn away from running up and killing your wizard?

You move him further away.

The EXACT thing that I'm talking about, only far slower and shittier so you can feel like a "strategist" for doing what any normal person would do in that scenario.

The ONLY advantage TB has over RTwP is that it tricks tards like you into thinking that "moving characters out of harm's way" is being a "master tactician".

wrath of the righteous

cast 50 buffs and then auto attack

Riveting gameplay

For games with lots of enemies I'd rather RTwP. I prefer turn based but BG3 was fucking cancer for having encounters with way too many enemies to sit through their turn, add to that the enemy turn delay bug that was present when I played it and you can fuck right off. Never playing BG3 again.

every TB game degenerates into 1 turn killing spree without ever interacting with any mechanic.

Do you not move weaker characters out of harms way in RTwP?

Nah man, first you save and run in to scout the fight, then you load your game, summon all your minions, then buff everything, throw your AoEs into the spots where you know the enemy is/will be and then you right click your at whatever is left alive.

Turn-based is much better for RPGs
It allows better encounter design and much more tactical and fun gameplay.

I can't name a single RTwP game with good encounter design.

real-time with pause. simple as.

I think the last time I played RTwP was BG2 as a kid. Absolutely refuse to touch that dogshit

and that saved bg1

Action hybrid (FF7R) > Turn-based > RtwP

no they're not

RTwP always turns into a chaotic mess, especially the newer games. It wasn't as bad I the IE games.

who gives a fuck about china or tencent? would you have liked it more, if blackcock globalist kikes had bought it, instead?

What the fuck are you talking about?

You are the fucking sperg who is saying that; "If I can't react as I would in REAL LIFE then the system is BAD".

You move him further away.

No? Because by breaking off from my frontline and gunning for my backline he not only triggered AoO but also placed himself to be easily attacked by my entire team which is now all in range to hit him. So I simply gank him.
Can you do the same thing in RWtP? Yeah I never said you couldn't. You are the brainlet who said that in TB your weaker characters just die because "lol can't do anything". Which is you being too retarded to plan your actions.

The problem with RTwP is that its a cheap carbon copy of RTS, its a casualized system without any of the depth of its inspiration.

Its really a product of its time, i'd take slower turnbased combat over boring shallow and janky RTwP anyday of the week.

Devs should comit to one choice, either go turnbased or action or strip the rpg elements and make an RTS, this weird amalgamation of combining rpg elements with simplified RTS gameplay is stupid and boring

your mom

ARPG with mid-combat rape.

Real time with Pause is superior to turn-nigger slop. Larian destroyed the fun of Baldur's Gate and even turned the series into a fucking beastiality porno.

BG3 has the best gameplay out of any CRPG and the best turnbased combat in any RPG (in my opinion)

I love turnbased but not all devs realize how to make it fun, Larian does a good job, but i played Shadowrun and its so boring and easy, then i played Persona 5 and while it can be snappy and fast, its so easy and shallow, then i played Wasteland 3 which was kinda fun actually but not even close to Larian style with Divinity and BG3, those 2 games were amazing, really.

I think the evolution for turnbased is to allow the player to use terrain and make positioning matter, and design enemies in a clever way that offers more gimmicks and different mechanics throughout the game.
Sadly a lot of turnbased games just recycled the same enemies.

Real Time with Pause is better if all you make is repetitive and similar enemies, it becomes boring in Persona dungeon when you do the same thing over and over again, or in many Jrpg where you have the same random encounters, in that case give me Real Time with Pause over this slog.

Im downloading Clair Obscur Expedition 33 as i write this post, i hope its turnbased combat is good and fun.

DOS2 had better combat and I think that's a pretty common opinion

If RTwP is so good, then why did Owlcat add TB to pathfinder after release and ditched it completely for Roguetrader?

If you are going to have a lot trash mobs like gibberlings, then RTwP is the way to go.

Anyway, a preference for turn-based just means that you can't think in real time, because you are stupid.

Nah BG3 combat is better.

As much as i love Divinity 2 combat it has some issues that BG3 fixed in a really good way.

The only argument you can make against BG3 combat is that its slow or that it can be easy if you master the game, thats it.

Divinity 2 combat has some actual flaws though, good thing Larian learned and improved from them.

the problem is no other game dev did RTWP right outside of infinity engine

we need more simultaneous turn-based games

Heroes of Might & Magic

I love it when RTwPfags all pretend that they don't use the pause function.

This. It's the only time RTwP felt good to me. It was ok in DA Origins as well.

RTwP.

There is only one truly great turn-based game and that is Fallout. Party-based games with turn-based combat are incredibly annoying and need to die in a fire.

They act like it's some kind of big brained system that plebs can't figure out. Any idiot can pause and issue commands, the issue is that its tedious and annoying.

The Owlcat CRPGs are available with both RTwP and turn-based, you can toggle at the push of a button. You can easily compare both modes. Except for a few trash fights I played the entire thing in turn-based.
RTwP is frankly just dated. I'd say it was obsolete but that'd imply it was ever good at some past time, and it wasn't. There's never a reason to use it in an RPG. Because the trash fights you might skip using RTwP are also bad, dated design that doesn't belong in these games. Every encounter in an RPG should be interesting or have something to think about, otherwise it shouldn't exist. It should be skipped, which is effectively what engaging RTwP does. And in that case, well, just don't make the encounter at all.
The old era of Diablo clone RPGs with packs of random filler mooks is thankfully over. All the biggest RPGs are turn-based now so I think we can call this a settled question.

What game has the best RTwP combat?

we need more simultaneous turn-based games

This is actually just as bad for turn-based fags. Those niggers cannot grasp the concept of multiple characters moving simultaneously.

What makes Fallout combat good? i always heard its the worst part of the game! lol

He's been spamming that image for so long it's lost the original meaning. He started posting it back in 2020 when there was a wave of anti-China sentiment due to covid, everyone's forgotten about that now so the yellow peril angle just comes off as weird. Everyone plays Chinese games now and tencent owning this or that is preferable to western parent companies, as you said

Neverwinter Nights added the ability to stack abilities like spells so that they could be cast in sequence, which is actually a great improvement.

That said, NWN still has the best iteration of RTwP to date, the only problem is that the campaigns of the base game and expansions are just nowhere near as good as Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2.

Don't samefag ziganwu. It's cringe. Swen is exposed and seething like usual. It's not about chian hate. It's about astroturfing they hide.

In RTwP I can do that. In TB, I'm forced to sit still while the monster turns around, runs toward me, and starts fucking my shit up.

Yeah, because you didn't think ahead and plan to be out of the monster's range.
like, that's the whole point of tactical combat. To think and plan ahead and form tactics to win intelligently. instead of just kiting and kiting until your auto-attacks deplete the enemy's HP.
Yeah okay, having Imoen solo a bear with charname running in circles is funny, but if you're gonna have the whole game be like that, why not just play an RTS? You know, against actual humans that can fight back? Instead of comp stomping for 100 hours and calling it a "role-playing game".

If you want to talk about evolution and things only video games can do, then RTwP REALLY has no place. Because proper action games do intense skill-based combat far better, and RTS does real-time unit management, tactics, and strategy far better. RTwP RPGs have nothing, they're this abortive middle ground that doesn't do anything as well as any other genre.

we do. that's why we like it. we are able to pause if we want to. the other system doesn't give us this freedom and is exactly why it sucks.

I think both are good and fine, it depends entirely on encounter design. BG3 would be hard to play with RTwP because of how much microing you would need to do, and BG2 would be hard to play in turn based because of how slow every fight be when you could let them auto resolve with basic attack nearby enemy AIs on

oh, right. yeh, i remember those days..

All that shit you're complaining about is because of 5E, kek. They did away with a lot of class features and everything feels like jack-of-all-trades generalist sloppa. It has nothing to do with turn-based or not, it's a problem with D&D editions. You may like pathfinder games better, and you can switch between turn-based and rtwp in those.

theres also mod which gives faster spell casting OUT of combat so you can prebuff much faster without waiting 6s for each cast, a lot of improvements to BG1/2 got added by modders

It is the worst part of the game. It is just fun, because you only control one character instead of an entire party. It also has great death animations and combat banter. Not to mention that you can actually feel your character getting stronger in while progressing through the game, so it is always great to enter combat to actually feel the progression. At the beginning of the game you have problems killing rats, but you will eventually be one-shotting death claws and super mutants.

they're not even hiding it, though. you literally posted the picture right there, it's all out in the open in their shareholder reports n shit. if it was a real secret, then where the fuck does the original meme picture then even come from? who took it and leaked it?

having both is ideal, one of the great things about Pathfinder is being able to play battles where you need to lock in where lots of shit is going on in turn based mode and then turning on rtwp with the click of a button when it's a simple encounter where your party will just mop everything up quickly

BG3 is hampered by being based on a dogshit version of D&D rules but DOS2 combat was garbage. More of a puzzle game than a combat RPG

I'll have a turn BASED game, thanks.

D&D is turn based in tabletop so it makes sense that something D&D based is better turn based
2nd edition also really wasn't all that complex, BG1 and 2 just weren't all that good at explaining their systems to players

It was originally part of a conspiracy theory the spammer had about BG3's player count was botted, because something something china. The tencent investment was supposed to be "proof" that the GOTY was astroturfed by bots. He might explain further now that I brought it up.

Chimp IQ post

maybe account for your d4 mage being squishy before you place them in range of an enemy
make sure you're hiding behind the fighter, have defensive spells up, be at a higher elevation where enemies can't quite reach that easily

that's always been the downside of wizards in D&D: they have low HP so you need to preemptively think of your defenses, maybe you realize enemies are pretty close and tough and instead of casting fireball, you cast web to prevent them from reaching you

They also take liberties with the system to the point where I reinstalled BG2 thinking

hell yeah I'm going to make a katana swingin' 2h paladin

Only to find out BG2 katanas aren't 2h weapons unlike 2e what the FUCK

this many years later he's still seething

You can take the L now man lol

and maybe your unathletic wizard ass shouldn't be capable of just merrily running away from a trained warrior indefinitely
maybe if an orc charges your wizard ass that should be a very fucking big deal

But if you really wanted to play this realistic, why aren't you playing something like Dark Souls instead, or is the fact you can't pause to infinitely think over your options a dealbreaker?

I forgot where it was, but I remember there was a mod that allowed Katanas to be wielded either with one hand or two. I think it was from Tweaks Anthology

that's also something I have to credit Larian for, when they change things about 5e, generally they changed things for the better
making it so my high level barbarian can jump across half a battlefield and chuck gnomes into the ocean is not what 5e would let you do, but it's what you wish 5e would let you do

Just checked and yep, it's part of TA. Consider installing it if you wanna be a katanadin

One thing I don't get about the "Turn based is for brainlets" argument is that take any roguelike game. You can have a lot of enemies on screen at the same time, each with dangerous abilities and specific tactics required to beat. Because the game is turn based you can sit and think about your action for a long time until you come to the best course of action.
In a real time situation the encounter itself wouldn't be possible because the amount of potential actions from various enemies would be too many to react to in real time. Either you'd have to scale down the encounter or make the enemies much less dangerous.
In short, turn based allows for far more complicated scenarios than real time which actually require a brain to solve.

I think you're just imagining a theoretically perfect game in your mind and arguing it's better even though it doesn't exist.
wtf even is "creative ways to put backliners in danger", and why would it only be possible in real-time? Which "tactics" are only possible in real-time but can't work in turn-based, aside from kiting, the most basic of the basic cheese in every real-time game?

Of course if you just imagine "potential" instead of actually using examples, your theoretical "potential" game will always be better than ones that actually exist
yeah "potentially" we can make a RTwP game that has perfect supercomputer AI and plans its moves 300 years in advance and simulates a world the size of our solar system, and it has so many nondescript creative things in it too, BG3 just can't compare bros

D&D is turn based in tabletop so it makes sense that something D&D based is better turn based

Retarded argument. CRPGs and tabletop RPGs have next to nothing in common.

Depends on the game. CK3, real time with pause. BG3, Turn based. Time and place.

other than you know, the entire mechanical system
a fireball does the same damage in tabletop as it does in CRPG, in the same way, using the same statistics

Real-time with pause.

Turn-based is so shit, that Larian literally had to turn their game into a degenerated porno to get retards to play it.

and RtwP would allow you to selective turn the game real time or turn based when it is advantageous for you, which is even worse because it robs what makes the roguelike interesting: you have infinite time to go over your options, but once you commit to an action you commit fully to it and bear the consequences

RtwP gives you the option to think infinitely about your actions, but also allows you to dodge the consequences of the actions

I have never ever seen anyone play rtwp that doesn't pause every second
.t average game session
youtube.com/watch?v=pRbguP4H33E&ab_channel=Werglia

other than you know, the entire mechanical system

Literally not. Neither Baldur's Gate 2 nor Baldur's Gate 3 are carbon copies of D&D. Not even close.

their systems are still close enough that they're obviously D&D the changes tend to be relatively minor and certain systems just flat out make 0 sense in RtwP like initiative order

BG3 is just boring in general with the slow shitty pathfinding and spending hours checking empty pots and barrels. You can't even utilize your build since everything dies in a turn and Laezel or whoever will have cleared half the map on their own

Turn based, just like regular tabletop since AD&D.

The most complex of real-time games are far more complicated and strategic than turn-based games, but the debate is usually about RPGs which don't even get close to that category. RTWP gameplay in RPGs is typically braindead even compared to relatively simple RTS games. Among RTWP, even Paradox GSGs are more complex and tactical than the infinity engine games, and by a good margin too. It sounds laughable, but it's even funnier because it's true.

the amount of potential actions from various enemies would be too many to react to in real time

It's not just that there's too many to react to, but the simple fact of too many actors at once breaks real-time tactical gameplay by removing any room for tactics, mathematically speaking.
For example, if you compare Starcraft 1 and 2, the latter game has much better pathfinding so units clump together a lot easier, and always attack in unison. This leads to massive death balls shitting damage in very fast decisive battles. And it sucks compared to the first game, which had a wider variety of engagements and allowed more time for armies to move around or react.
The same is true for RPGs. Once you pass a certain amount of units acting at once in perfect concert, you have to either 1. accept the game is now nuclear rocket-tag or 2. make every unit pathetically weak/slow to bring damage down. And every RTWP looks like one of these two. Either you have the first instance, with prebuffed PCs nuking everything and wizards blowing things up in battles that take 2 milliseconds, or the second instance, where you auto-attack trash mobs that can't hurt you until it's over, and move onto the next trash mob pack.

Absolutely 5e is trash and Larian didn't bother to put any effort into challenging the player. Meanwhile Driftwood is a hellscape that will fuck you up the ass if you innocently talk to a scarecrow

Retarded argument. CRPGs and tabletop RPGs have next to nothing in common.

True.

You can emulate the tabletop experience online, but nobody wants to play that, because it isn't a CRPG. Pen and paper and computer RPGs are completely different beasts.

RTWP is the worst.

Go turn-based or action. Not this half-assed compromise.

auto casts 9000 buffs

drag-selects and moves his entire party at the enemy

autistically pauses and unpauses until he's 1mm away from enemy detection range

queues orders for every unit to use their most basic attack

all attacks hit at once, instagibbing the enemy before they can do anything

repeat for every encounter

VGH.... TRVE strategic gameplay for would-be generals such as myself...
in another life I would be Napoleon... perhaps even Alexander... alas... the turn-CRINGE degenerates have ruined this timeline...

I genuinely think the vocal minority that hates turn-based just gets mad when they can't play like this. Like if they don't get all the buffs + abuse enemy sight range + perfect positioning + free ambush + surprise round every single fight they feel cheated and probably reload saves until they do. If they can't cheese every fight they say it's a slog or something.

Real-time. With or without pause, it doesn't matter. Turn-based is slop for brainlets and bad gamers.

There is a reason why baby's first video game (Pokemon) is turn-based

You can actually play Bladur's Gate without pausing, turn-troon brainlet.

Why can't turn-babies figure out if they're system is good because it's this galaxy-brained tactics simulator that filters retards, or if it's good because it's more popular with normalfags?

I like both

No! You have to be like me, and choose because my life is so boring I have to fight made-up wars on a Cambodian shuffleboard forum!

It's not that turn-based RPGs are the most popular, but rather RTWP is just dead as a doornail, and its non-RPG successors are some of the most popular casual games out there. The RPG-like niche for this audience is mainly filled by action games where you roll at a certain time to win, similar to how you can kite in RTWP games to win every combat.

non-RPG successors

Such as?

Sounds like you should play underrail.

used to be MOBAs, which devolved into hero shooters
as well as MMOs to some degree
You could also say these originated from RTS games, which would also be correct as RTS games lie upstream from ARPGs, which gave birth to the RTWP RPGs

On the other side you have the modern "action RPG" which basically devoured the real-time RPG audience, the soulslike genre is a popular example currently, but games like Bioshock and Skyrim also helped demolish them

For Baldur's Gate, RTwP. I don't want to spend four turns and two whole minutes to kill a pack of wolves.

Turn based > ARPG > RTWP >>>>>>>>>> ATB

RTwP unless you're like a deficient retarded that can't do too many things are once

Real-time. I don't care if it is RTwP or not.

I just can't stand turn-slop anymore. It used to be common due to technical limitations, but that argument doesn't fly anymore. Turn-shit needs to stay in the past where it belongs.