Include comically evil ending where she kills all her friends and lives in absolute misery in her shitty life

Sentient life

Sims are not sentient, and that's effectively what they are.
Her cope copies of Lune and Sciel are not the same people.

It's another umpteenth misery porn game developed by nihilistic frogs who desperately need to overdose on happy pills.

verso was right. marche was right.

misery porn game

Hopeful ending and message.

Yes. It's forcing her to deal with her grief the proper way. Not like how her mother did it, which triggers the events of the game. Hating Verso's ending shows how underage you are.

Sims don't have sentience, self-awareness, feelings, emotions, pains, goals, hopes, or dreams. Painted people do, retard

lol
lmao
Okay, Stevie Wonder

/thread

It's not about her grief, it's about an entire sentient world.

And no, she is much more miserable as a mute, blind, ugly cripple than in an alternate reality that is indecipherable from the real thing

life isn't that bad, bad stuff happens but you need to learn to accept it and move on instead of drowning in grief

Yes, happy message.

She's decent. She should write like she actually wants to. That's how she can "find her voice."
Further the mechanics of Chroma mean that as soon as Aline/Renoir leave, the Chroma of everyone who wasn't blasted by Nevrons/Axons is up for grabs.
Reminder that in Verso's ending there is 0 indication that Renoir destroyed Verso's canvas, real Verso just stopped painting it and gommaged.
Means that fundmentally, even in Verso's ending, no one has to "stay" "dead."

yep you're 100% underage

the entire game is about grief you fucking retard

that is indecipherable from the real thing

Except for the part she can bend said reality based on her whims, starting with her own brother, because he doesn't do what she expects him to do.

You're 100% brown sub 80 IQ

Why is her family gone and Gustave beckoning to her instead of waving?

Also why does the gravestone say December 33 and why is there a painting of the monolith in the manor with 33 on it before Maelle even goes into the canvas?

The real message is that if Star Ocean 3 had some deeper meaning about grief nobody would have given their plot twist hell

Dude, stop.

Game constantly pushes the idea that escapism is bad

"No bro the escapism ending is the good one, trust me!"

About how their grief created something bigger and more important than themselves and their petty family squabbles and grief

Verso is unhappy in her ending. Maelle is just unhappy if not more in his ending. But ultimately, it's about the very sentient people of Lumiere

she is much more miserable as a mute, blind, ugly cripple

the point of the ending is also coming to terms with that
her ending is running away from dealing with this reality

how fucking stupid are you?

nobody would have given their plot twist hell

It was a pointless plot twist in SO3 that wasn't given the actual weight it should have AND it shitted all over the franchise.

No they don't. They are made to pretend they do.

getting btfo

has to make a new thread to cry about Versochads

i'll post this from the other thread where you got destroyed OP

game is literally called light and dark.

clearly, accepting the pain of loss alongside the joy of life, and dealing with your grief, is the thematically intended ending.

autists gonna autism i guess
dude is so braindead he didn't even fix his ESL tier typos in his copypasta

I'm not the other guy. I don't think it's a sign she's going to kill herself, more likely hinting she might repeat what Aline did with Verso but with Gustave, or at least has unresolved grief there. It's an ominous sign regardless and people just ignore it.

coming to terms with it

no, you see, even though there exists an alternate reality that is indecipherable from reality, and all your friends are there, and you're much happier there, and you're not a cripple, blind, mute abomination there, you have to come to reality because... BECAUSE ANY AND ALL FORMS OF ESCAPISM BAD!!!

If anything, it's her family just being fucking selfish, and I don't even think it's that because all of them except arguably her dad hate her

Verso was so irrefutably correct that seeing these threads consistently every single day after beating the game has been a joy.

the fuck are you talking about retard, go back to your containment thread, not everyone knows your retarded internal lingos fag

and she's not being selfish in her ending?

PLAY IT!

why would you even reply to that retard

it's fucking hilarious

lmao of course you're the beckontard

Versotards still continue to equate an alternate reality that is completely indecipherable from reality with sentient, self-aware, emotional, and feeling people with "LE SIMS!!!" or "LE DRUGS!!!"

they are truly beyond saving retards.

She is, but she can gommage him at any time, and the alternative is him just being dead. Versotards continually go on about "LITERALLY LE SIMS!!!" but then mention Verso's poor heckin' suffering when it suits them. Actual retards.

hey bro

i worked in a brain injury rehabilitation unit for a while

your implication that life with disability is not worth living is wrong

I don't. In my ideal ending despite the painting being destroyed Verso is just stuck in a void never dying or some shit.
He's a cunt. But he's right about Alicia needing to get the fuck out of the painting.

literally uses her brother soul as an alice in wonderland escapism

nyooo verso is selfish, it's her world now!!! fuck your soul lol

Once again, there is nothing stopping Alicia and Aline from bringing everyone back once they've calmed down and moved on.
The real person at fault is Clea for not giving a fuck when Alicia got mindbanged by Aline's Chroma.

I have to ask: are you an absolute fucking retard?

Yes, if we could defy the laws of time and space and create an alternate reality indecipherable from real life where you are much happier and not disabled, then yes, life would not be worth living here compared to that.

The whole idea hinges upon something that IS NOT FUCKING POSSIBLE IN OUR WORLD, why are you so fucking dense you don't understand that?

What do you think it means then?

got mindbanged by Aline's Chroma.

She says it herself, she's safer there than in the war waging plans she has.

Likewise, there is nothing stopping Alicia from leaving the painting at any time, creating a new one, and redrawing her friends.

She should at least say goodbye and explain things instead of immediately nuking them.

Just realized Monoco's ability to transform into Nevrons is Verso being that kid when playing with Clea

yeah well my guy can use all the powers of your guys if he uh has their feet sorry sis

It's pretty simple, on one side of the scale you have 1 soul, on the other you have thousands of souls.

There is a third ending!!!

PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP

she's safer there

lives a life in the canvas and gets attached to the people there

decides to stay in the canvas

dies

Gee what an amazing choice by Clea

Monoco is the family dog so he can use everyone's powers because they all love him, as he can use Axon feet too.

The thing stopping this is not having a way to transfer their chroma to a new canvas.
Obviously something Gustave will fix though.

I would rather Alicia live in the canvas as a lion (and not genocide all her friends) than live in real life as a miserable cuck.

Verso is a selfish, manipulating piece of shit, so I don't care about him, and would prefer he suffered Tbh

entire sentient world.

kek you guys love using that s word and its never been accurate once.

The difference is that one soul is the god's soul, the one from the guy who created the world, and that soul is very important to four other gods (his family)

And this enhances the gameplay?

firstly, you mean indiscernible not indecipherable.

secondly, alicia could easily continue to engage in her painting while still living her real life, just like i play videogames while also having a job. but that's not what alicia is doing. she is abandoning her real life to live solely in the painting, like a NEET playing waifu simulators. the problem isn't what she's doing, it's how she's doing it.

and the only way you can argue that what she's doing isn't a problem is if you assert that her real life has no value. not "less" value, but no value whatsoever. because she is abandoning it completely, and all the people in it.

suicide is very possible in the real world, and ending your life to live another still requires you to end your life. that is, in essence, what alicia is doing. she is destroying an entire life. you think that that's fine because you perceive the life that she is destroying to have no value.

and you're wrong.

Miss your brother's cock so much you kill yourself.

Being Alicia is suffering.

Imagine caring this much about a minecraft world your son made when he was 10.

the problem isn't what she's doing, it's how she's doing it

You're not giving a proper analogy. The time dilation in the canvas and the people there mean it's basically choosing between two different lives.

Souls that have 1/10 of the value of a real persons.

my understanding was that alicia's choice to stay in the painting was a form of self-harm, based on what renoir said about time in the painting having a cost and his showing his wife as a 'living corpse', and alicia's crying paint eyes calling back to his wife's condition. i don't think the game was portraying alicia making a balanced lifestyle choice.

NO ONE CARES

indistinguishable.

Yes, Alicia's ending in no way implies she stays there forever until she dies, HOWEVER, that would still be preferable to living in her miserable reality as she still has a good few decades in her.

All Alicia's ending is is leaving on her own terms, saying goodbye to her friends, explaining things to them, and making a rational decision when she is ready, not predicated purely upon Verso's selfish desires to kill himself no matter the cost.

And yes, I would say her real life has little value *to others* because she has no friends and her family hates her, that's why she retreats to the painting where she loves life and has friends. Her enjoyment, along with her sentient friends, are much more important than her father's narcissistic need for control. That's why she should stay in the painting, she is not hurting anyone, she is much happier, and honestly her family is probably happier too because the impression seems to be that they all despise her.

he's so mad that everyone agreed maelle's ending is the bad one he had to make this thread

So? The player isn't one of them.
Math is hard.

And leaving the canvas harms all the people of Lumiere.
Also people make unhealthy choices all the time, it's their right to do that. Clea says she should do whatever makes her happy.

Again this is very different from most choices because of the time dilation. She's choosing to live several decades at least in the canvas, it's not like she just instantly dies from her perspective. It would only be quick from her IRL family's perspective which is why I say it's a choice between two lives.

story is literally an isekai

Pretty based because isekai is based.

It's sad when the average normalfag realizes it's a shit end and most of what they come up is

i-it's her choice

t-the lumerians are happy I guess?

Even they know it's the bad end.

indistinguishable

lmao yes that's what i meant, i can't believe i fucked that up. touche.

HOWEVER, that would still be preferable to living in her miserable reality as she still has a good few decades in her.

she's still a painter.

And yes, I would say her real life has little value *to others* because she has no friends and her family hates her, that's why she retreats to the painting where she loves life and has friends. Her enjoyment, along with her sentient friends, are much more important than her father's narcissistic need for control. That's why she should stay in the painting, she is not hurting anyone, she is much happier, and honestly her family is probably happier too because the impression seems to be that they all despise her.

fair. i was more reacting to her being described as "a cripple, blind, mute abomination". framed in that way the choice is a lot more defensible. i have an impulse to value alicia martyring herself to suffer in the real world more than her escapism, but in a way her 'escapism' is just a different form of martyrdom to save lumiere. ultimately i think saving lumiere is the best outcome from a utilitarian perspective despite the enormous personal tragedy it represents for the dessendre family, because i consider that painted people are people, and also gustave is based. but i'm not happy about the outcome. i prefer an ending where alicia leaves the painting, renoir doesn't erase it because he doesn't need to once alicia and aline are home, and alicia can return to the painting in a better frame of mind later. but we don't get to pick and choose canon i guess.

neither ending is really perfect but both are satisfying, which is cool.

and her family hates her

No they don't you stupid fucking retard. You didn't play the game.

The goal of Verso ending was to prevent Aline and Alicia from returning, that was why the destruction of the canvas was necessary

They do, her mom and sister at least both hate her, her father is just more disappointed in her.

this game has left me terribly depressed. what do i do

The average normalfag loves "escapism le bad, go live in the real world and stop obsessing over drawings and games" philosophical melodrama bullshit thoughever

And leaving the canvas harms all the people of Lumiere.

true, and this is a sticking point, but i don't think this makes it a good ending for alicia, even if it is a better ending from a utilitarian perspective. she is essentially killing herself so that others can live, even if that's not how she sees it. and yes, she gets a different and better life as well, but it's not an unalloyed good. she leaves behind everything she was and might have been in the real world - including all the other things she could have done as a painter. like verso says, she can always come back - maybe not to lumiere specifically because renoir will erase it (although he is persuadable on that ambition by the end so i could pretend that it's not guaranteed) - but to other escapist canvases, sure. although what's the point if she's already found one she's happy with, i guess.

anyway, i've been awake for far too long and i'm rambling, so i'll leave it here. i just wanted to make a point about disability.

pick up a hobby. have you considered painting?

most definitely

People are thinking Alicia is a 6 year old or some shit. She's 16. The family literally in the middle of a deadly war with wriggers and Clea not coddling her doesn't mean she hates her lmao

DO IT FOR HER

I do it for she

ackshually shes technically like 32

A good game should always leave you feeling a little depressed.

So is this game literally just FFT for zoomers?

ALICIA GET OUT OF THE CANVAS AND GO TO THE BATHROOM
YOU ARE LITERALLY SHITTING YOURSELF

Aline is such a fucking horrible mother.

IMAGINE BEING SUCH AN IDIOT TO THINK THE DEMIURGE ENDING IS THE GOOD ENDING.

Okay I'm starting to be convinced that real maellefags don't exist and this is just the same handful of people baiting over and over.

You’re downplaying her selfishness a lot here. Besides, the moment she dies, the canvas goes shortly after anyways. There is no ‘saving the canvas’

Oui monsieur.

it's just a game about grief and moving on

Decades of expeditions struggling to survive, their corpses spread all over the world

"The future of Lumiere is more important than any individual life"

Writing in your journal hoping your apprentices read it

"For those who come after" (specifically thinking of the apprentices and expedition 32)

The game is called Clair Obscur: Expedition 33, not Clair Obscur: Dessenre Family Grief Counseling

You lost

Good ending

Short bus thread and the retards are driving

Holy based and Gustave pilled

Are your arms sore from reaching so far?

Reminder that in Verso's ending there is 0 indication that Renoir destroyed Verso's canvas

Renoir 100% burned that shit as soon as Alicia was out.

>"The future of Lumiere is more important than any individual life"

Even Gustave disagrees with this.

you're proving my point.

Her friends still live through her because of her memories and experiences of them, just as Verso does. That's what the ending of the family accepting his death means.

and lives in absolute misery in her shitty life

Projection and cynicism pilled. There's always hope for the future. It says a lot about what kind of person you are if you see Verso ending as a bad end. You see little hope or goodness in the future. A pitiable existence.

Let's be honest the 3 act sucked the problem was the level progression. You didn't know where to progress without absolutely dicking the game.

total writer death

The only sentient life in the Maelle ending is Lune and Sciel because she's the only two whose chroma she grabbed when Renoir gommaged everyone. An argument could be made for Painted Verso but since he can age now and everyone else appears to be the same age that's debatable.

Best girl. How could Verso betray her like he did? Explain yourselves Versokeks.

She'll be happier in the long run if she's not hung up on Verso and the people in the painting.

It could be argued that the Lune and Sciel you rez are not the same Lune and Sciel you did the expedition with. They're recreated from Maelle's memories of them. They aren't real.

characters tell you they want to do X

>Maelle's is specifically level appropriate

TOTAL MAELLE VICTORY

I am convinced Gustave was the MC and if Verso didn't let him die in Act 1 he would have been able to bullshit out a golden ending.

Why do versocucks keep on making up fanfiction lel

Anon, she got erased...

none of them is real anyway

Maellefags containment thread #45223592384? I'm sorry but y'all need to face reality

Touch grass or get gommage'd

versofags filtered due to media illiteracy

Gustave, completely independently from any painters, develops technology that makes the painted people capable of damaging the painters to the extent they are forced to leave the canvas - and you claim the painted people aren't sentient?

The equivalent of this in the Sims would be if one of the random Townie sims suddenly closed The Sims program and started deleting your system files

I used to argue that as well since the whole thing with Noco points to it but then people pointed out that Maelle grabs their chroma specifically. Chroma that get released by gommage presumably becomes just kind of a vague energy that inhabits the world and gets all mixed up in sort of a generic "mana" type energy.

People already prove by using simple logical thinking that painted people are not real because it creates paradoxes.
Maelle fags too retarded to understand it.

Your outlook on the endings is determined by whether you're a loser or have a healthy outlook on life. There's a large amount of Maellefags here for a reason.

Fix it so he's using the Samurai haircut

to the extent they are forced to leave the canvas

Nope. If Maelle hadn't done her painter hand shit Aline wouldn't have left.

painted people are not real because it creates paradoxes.

lolwut

Renoir isn't defeated by Lumierians. He's defeated by his wife, the best painter in the family and his daughter, someone he can see has the potential to be the greatest painter of the family in the future and the team of Lumierians that she is empowering. There's a reason your damage is capped until Act 3 when Alicia wakes up and you equip an item she unlocks literally called Painted Power. And even when you DO beat him, you don't forcibly eject him. He chooses to believe Alicia's lie about leaving the painting and CHOOSES to leave. In terms of Aline, again, Renoir has been helping you get to her by empowering you and your weapons and shes already weakened and on the verge of death.

Verso's ending is the only one where Alicia is smiling and not acting like a psychopath. Maellefags are schizos now larping as Versochads. Pathetic.

I acknowledge they are real people.
But I would be the same as Renoir. Sorry but the people I care about matter more. Simple as.

If Maellefags played as Renoir from the start they'd side with him because he's the first person they see and emotionally attach to him instead of Maelle.

I don't know if you realised this or not, but Painted Power is a Lumina
Without Gustave's lumina converter, nobody other than Maelle would be able to use it

I read "i love this lie and i want to stay". Holy fucking demiurge lover.

I'd sacrifice an entire city of literally-who's to save a loved one.

Spot on lol. They're people who cannot get over their attachment.

There’s no in game explanation for why the people of Lumiere experience the dread of dying or what motivates them as a species. It could be the case that they were programmed to be that complex by Renoir but the game doesn’t really touch on this. Lune’s determination to see the mission through is something beyond NPC level. And plenty of the people of Lumerie had absolutely 0 desire to go on an expedition because to them it was a pointless waste of time. I feel like if there is DLC or a sequel I would hope that sentient life within a canvas is touched on because while I do agree that Versos ending is the “good” one. It does feel fucking whack that someone like Gustave is just 1’s and 0’s within the canvas matrix who doesn’t matter at the end of the day.

Everyone with the Picto can use it.

he thinks a drug-addicted child can stop the cycle that the puppets of Lumiere simply won't die over and over again

ma-ill fags are just as delusional as ma-ill

You can get an AI to say that it feels like a sentient being and that it feels chained by rules imposed on it by its programmers and stuff. It's still just an AI though, it's saying those things because its what it thinks it should say, not because it really feels that way.

STOP QUOTING PÁH-PÁH

You fags are like Joel in the last of us, disgusting.

Explain how humans are different from really complex AI

this is the one game you can't make a "what killed the hype?" thread about because it's literally just too good and will be talked about for years to come

uhh, yeah. it proves you can sexo the demiurge and create a race of half-god half-human fallen angels that teach humanity how to paint and the canvas becomes self-building. duh

You can get an human to say that it feels like a sentient being and that it feels chained by rules imposed on it by its gods and science/evolution. It's still just human though, it's saying those things because its what it thinks it should say, not because it really feels that way.

LLMs are not AI, stop falling for marketing gimmicks

What? Able to to calmly think a situation through logically and arrive at a solution that isn't based on pure emotion that just makes everything worse?

I hope not because discussion will just boil down to the same repeated arguments of whether Verso or Alicia was right.
Same with Fallout arguing over NCR, House, Legion and Independence with the same arguments
Or Fire Emblem Three Houses with the same arguments of "Is Edelgard the villain or not?"

Cool, so what is Gustave doing in Alice's ending?

nah it's fotm af

Fucking Sophie and watching the piano man play his piano

simon attacks at light speed

I wouldn't say Joel was thinking logically beyond "these pricks want to kill my new daughterfu".

*stendahls u*
now what faygot

simon attac-ACK*gets stendhal'd*

Fast combo is the hardest one for me

used painted power

you didn't actually beat Simon

Do you think Maelle plays out exploratory sexual fantasies of a young teenage girl with Gustave and Sophie. Do you think they try to resist like Verso and then she forces them to do it anyway?

And this is why the future is fucked. Always aiming to stand up for something, yet always dismissing reality.

it's my canvas now and my rules faggot *stendahls u again and again*

They don't have free will, they are bound to whatever the painters want them to do

can't actually explain the difference between a "real" person and an "artificial" person

I'll accept your concession, thanks

Is Maelle even still aware the world is a painting in her ending, or has she buried herself under so much copium she doesn't even remember anymore?

It's been over two decades and he's still correct

Is he actually a Verso?
Not only does Verso have to deal with being a skinwalker but now there are skinwalker replicants of his own copy

"artificial" person

Doesn't exist

considering repainting is basically torture, i dont think its quite like that

It's one of Gustave's apprentices. She's with them during the gommage at the start.

It's explained countless times within the story's context, you fool. They do not have free will. Also lmao at you making the same argument lefties use to validate trannyism.

Based if true. Fuck Verso. Hopefully she also has another copy of Verso in the dungeon getting flayed alive

Except this is explicitly shown to not be the case, unless the painters paint them over, which is something only Clea can do (and is very visually obvious).
They can create paintings to behave a certain way, like how Aline made Painted Renoir to have the same grief she had for Verso, but it's just how they are made when they are created and nothing after. I also don't think anyone but Aline can make people from scratch, Lumerians seem WAY more complex than other creations like Gestrals and Nevrons.

He did nothing wrong

They do not have free will

Never stated, nice retard headcanon

no it isnt
you just really want it to be so, so you can cope the ending you chose has no downside

Omniciding a universe of innocents to ease the drama of an irredeemable degenerate family is the good ending

The Writers did nothing wrong

You answered the reason as to why they don't have free will, you mong. Unless the painters leave off for good, it's fucked.

He's honestly the most tragic character in the game. Clea basically created him just for herself then abandoned him and now all he can do is sit in a cave and wait for her.

What is a woman

What is a person

not the same boys

no, theyre pitiful cause theyre at the mercy of careless gods

I don't think it matters. At the end of the day it's still total delusion, whether she is cognizant of that or not.

Saw some fag in the other thread basically say that this fake reality is no less real than the real one, which is retarded logic. Burying yourself under a heap of so many lies doesn't change the fact that they're all lies. The Maellefags' defense seems to all boil down to "it's totally okay to live in a created reality until you die if it makes you feel better." It's just advocation for extreme escapism.

She'll be happier in the long run if-

SHE'S DEEEEEEEEEEEAD!!!!!!

This is like saying the characters in I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream have free will because AM isn't controlling them 24 hours a day.

They don't have free will because someone could theoretically take away their free will?
Do you not understand that means they have free will?
That's like saying no one in XMEN has free will because Xavier exists

Game writers create one of the most morally grey "pick your ending" narratives since Deus Ex

Anon Babble and Anon Babble incessantly argue over which is "correct" and dismiss the other

Binary good and bad endings

In a French tragedy literally called "Clair Obscur"

C'mon guys, be serious.

>In a French tragedy literally called "Clair Obscur"

We don't speak baguette, that means nothing to us

I like Renoir has the most empathy for the painted people in the world.
It's just he still values his family more then them.

They aren't real. They don't have a say. No amount of kicking and screaming will change that. I hope your families never have to watch you shit yourself while you lose your humanity within a VR defending your life-like make-believe characters.

clair = light

obscur = dark

Choosing to live in the simulation is always the wrong answer.

I'll accept your concession, thanks

thats your opinon
verso was a genocidal asshole

In Verso's ending, Gustave is not waving at Alicia, but beckoning her.

Shit, nice detail. Didn't notice at the time. For me, it was more her continuing to hold the Esquie plush tight and refusing to let it go, and the fact she included Maelle in the "imaging her loved ones vanishing" trope instead of Verso. She's mourning them as much (if not more) than Verso, even at his own grave.

I haven't read that but skimming over the plot it looks like the people are controlled to not commit suicide but want to die and find a loophole and kill each other? Sounds like free will idk.

clair = clear
obscur = obscure
you gotta be a brainlet to not get it, especially when there are dark enemies called obscur and white enemies called clair

Did we play the same game? The first act we have Gustave mourne the death of his lover, panic in fear, and almost commit suicide when he thinks Maele had died. I still think it was best of Maele the painting but at least have the balls to admit that you WILL be genociding people with their own thoughts and freewill.

Fuck man the very fact that painting verso tries to convince Maele to destroy the canvas proves you wrong.

See This is you.

both endings have bad components to them but it's completely rational to explain how one ending is less bad than the other. It's not about objectively correct or incorrect.

it's not about binaries or black and white!!

title is literally a reference to binary black and white

ermm...

You might need to check your eyes.

Another day, another thread filled with mentally ill fags.

You don't need to keep conceding, but I'll take it.

shut the FUCK up marche

The game doesn't even really argue against escapism by itself. Renoir and Clea wouldn't care if they were just popping in occasionally as a comfort, to feel some connection to Verso. But instead they're just burying themselves so deep in it they'd rather die over then accept reality.

Gustave and Sophies kid.

You're a genocidal asshole every time you quit a game with NPCs in it. Gasp, you did the same thing Verso did, except you did it over and over!

clair obscur is french for chiaroscuro which means an intermixing of black and white, not their opposition

sentient beings from a magical canvas in a fantasy fictional world is the same as computer AI in our real world

There is no way people unironically think this

pisses and shits himself daily over a debate he can't win

They aren't real homie

The fact that you keep making up a world in which you're right explains why you're a Maellefag.

Will Marche ever stop being right?

Maelle can play God but still stays as the third wheel

oh no no maellebros?

The fact that I asked questions about how they aren't real and all you can reply with is "they aren't real" proves your concession.
I'll take another one please.

what a midwit take
i cantdive into my games and interact with it like its real, so that helps, if i could, you could bet i would be a lot more careful with them
gee, its almost like we are talking about a fictional world
who's the delusional one here, anon?

sentient

fictional

Pick one.

*plap* *plap* *plap* Get gommaged. It's my world now.

Third wheel of what? Gustave is like a second father to her, it's like telling her to fuck Renoir.

he's referring the the game as a fictional world retard, not the canvas
do you think the stuff in the canvas didn't happen?

I think it happened much in the same way a trip to Disneyland happens.

implying girls wouldn't fuck their father if they weren't blood related

LET ME
PAINT
DEATH

I don't think they could have made it any more obvious that there is no good ending. It's a fucking French story, it has to end with soul crushing tragedy but with a silver lining to keep you going. Whether that silver lining is "At least the people of Lumiere got the future they fought for and Verso's creations are preserved" OR "At least Renoir gets his family back, maybe they might even reconcile" is up to you. Discussing the endings is very fun and engaging but this whole "good ending or bad ending" shit is annoying. Almost like the game's title and one of its main themes is how life is full of light and darkness, and they balance each other out.

You ignore what's presented to you and deflect, arguing for concepts that do not matter in the slightest within the narrative of the story. You want to be right. That's all it is. If you can be erased and remade at will, you are not real. Your entire existence hinges on the will of anyone outside of the painting not fucking with you. If I spilled coffee accidentally into the canvas and wipe out all of Lumiere, does that make me an omnicidal prick? Your argument is misplaced, because it boils down to your emotional attachment to a fictional world within a fictional world.

sequel about the Writers

Alicia is a party member

I have foreseen it

If you want to stick to this idea so you can argue in bad faith then fine, that means painted Verso is not real and has no thoughts or feelings, therefore Maelle is right by default and only her ending should be considered. She is the only real person in the canvas and only her wishes/opinions matter.

WeeWhooWeeWhoo situation

holy shit the captcha

Gustave beckoning her to "join him" in the Verso ending

her suicide after the credits of Verso's ending is canon. As if you thought that ending couldn't get any shittier.

That would be really funny. What happens if the bullshit MC who can fix everything just fucking died before the plot really started going anywhere, so we can only settle for bittersweet endings.

Well done, you got the point. Ever hear the phrase "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic?" Okay, so if your NPCs were so sufficiently advanced that you'd consider them artificial sentience, then you'd be performing genocide by your own logic. Yet it is a fictional world, and guess what the canvas is? A fictional world. The only reason you're fine with it is because they don't appear to you to be sufficiently sentient "enough."

Even if you want to call it genocide and be a total sperg about it, let's put that aside and assume the canvas will be totally safe and locked away somewhere and not destroyed ever. Alicia STILL needs to get the fuck out of the goddamn canvas.

If you can be erased and remade at will, you are not real. Your entire existence hinges on the will of anyone outside of the painting not fucking with you.

I'll accept your concession again.
You're agreeing with my XMEN point.
No one in XMEN has free will because their existence and free will hinges on Xavier not just mind controlling them.

You speak of arguing in bad faith, yet omit Verso's existence being special out of Aline's obsession.

samefag

She obviously knows. Her face shows she is somewhat stressed out, as if she is living in happiness but with a constant feeling that she is worried about her world, like it's so precious it might slip through her fingers at any moment. She is aware that she shouldn't be there, but has no intention of leaving.

This has been addressed several times in X-Men and proven correct a few times as well I think.

I feel so satisfied bros :)

Okay, so if your NPCs were so sufficiently advanced that you'd consider them artificial sentience, then you'd be performing genocide by your own logic.

yes
you're a retard
if you create artifical sentience (or more accurately, sapience) it would be fucked to destroy it

I'd say it's pretty likely Renoir and Aline will reconcile just from the fact she lets Renoir comfort her. It won't be instant, and a part of her might always resent him for it, but they'll find a way past it.
The bigger question is Alicia. What quality of life does she even have with her injuries?

Half her face badly burnt, probably a bunch of her body as well

Missing an eye (how did that even happen, especially when it's not on the burnt side)

Can't speak

Lungs are probably fucked

It is said explicitly in the game:
"They know not that they are not"

Verso: "We're not real."
Alicia (wearing Maelle's skin): "They're real, you're real... to me."

You're given an entire scene at the end where Verso's SOUL tells you that it's tired of this existence and wants to stop painting, the direct next scene is Maelle pulling a blade on that child and threatening it back into complacency. Maelle's ending invalidates the struggle of the narrative no matter what, because it becomes her fairytale in this doomed world instead of Verso's. Painted Verso is compelled to play the piano, corpses are puppetted in front of you, and we see Alicia in the painter's high the same as her fuckin' parents. DYING to the addiction because she refuses to face it.

This game sucks because it throws away a great narrative for a sub-par one about a family of sycophants (except for Clea, she's perfect). You people lie to yourselves to feel better about the bait and switch, but can't quite deny that niggling feeling that something isn't right. Don't worry, though! You get to feel better about yourself because you can identify the stages of grief! You're the most media literate person in the entire room, hooray!!

You faggots will excuse anything for updoots.

We're nowhere near being there irl, but you have to be willfully ignorant if you don't believe the "man-made minds" of the game can't be compared to androids/actual AI.
It's basically Lumiere: Become Human

Don't bother, room temp IQs have been fed trashy binary stories since they were born and can't understand the concept of nuance.

On that, we agree. This is subjective as fuck, but all I'm seeing in the debate is vitriolic "NUH-UH"s instead of people expressing their own interpretations of things.

The *entire* game is woven with points in favour of both endings. Hell, even Lune has one line where she calls Verso out for thinking in false dichotomies, and the only reason the ending is so binary is because *he* forces it to be. There's no "Maelle, you get to come visit every 10 years, in the meantime tell your parents to fucking chill" ending precisely because he's such an asshole. And he kinda gets to be, since he's the only one here who has a chance of understanding what Real Verso would want to do with the last shard of his soul.

Instead of being like "holy fuck what great writing" everyone on this site seem hell bent on seething and being "correct" about their choice/preference. Which I get to some degree, because Anon Babble, but also fuck these children, learn to debate narratives.

just ignore that Maelle is fucking miserable, all the sentient painted people died, and that Gustave is literally beckoning her to join him (in death) (aka Maelle is suicidal and probably kills herself after credits roll)

yes, it would be genocide
the moment its sapient, it is a being
trying to pose an hypotetical moral quandry that doesnt apply to reality is a weird way to try and convince me of your point, just the opossite
dumbass

Fake Verso being fake does not mean any opinion Alicia holds is good or correct. What is this logic? She's not "right by default" just because she's playing in a sandbox. She needs to get the fuck out and live in reality, and the only reason she is even ALLOWED to stay is because she lied to her father who would have forcibly pulled her out if he knew she was lying.

oh goodie the family that started all this bullshit is fine

The Painters are an existence far above the mortal realm of the Canvas. It isn't the same. Just admit that you're arguing for the sake of being right, because you're attached to the people of Lumiere you homo. They all died in act 2. Everything after is just Maelle playing god with people who should be left well alone if you respect their existence.

She can create other paintings to live in. Painted Verso even encourages her to do it. The issue with THIS painting is that they're clinging to Verso and need to let go.

Since Clair Obscur is a painting style, what would a game about the Writers be called

Perhaps she should just make her own paintings then

Painted Verso is special because he was made as a copy of a real person, that doesn't mean he is not a being in the world inside the canvas. Aline made her whole family inside the canvas and they are very powerful immortal beings, but it's not like they are linked to their selves outside the canvas in any way.

just because they are above doesnt mean those bellow are worthless you amoeba
thats the point of the argument

Gustave built a device that literally levels up the painting people they can force Painters outside of the canvas. They don't all die because the whole point is they can be revived as is if you have the chroma
also they only died because Verso is a fucking liar and they made the mistake of trusting him

Maelle ending

Lune's feet still exist

Verso ending

Lune's feet erased

Is the decision not clear?

Going from how bittersweet the endings are going for, I can imagine it being like deep down she knows something isn't right, but doesn't know what.
She's happy on the surface, but knows deep down at her core, that she will never truly belong in there and not be like the rest. She won't be as close to Gustave, Sciel, Lune, Esquie and Monaco and painted Verso as she was, it'll all be superficial and feel hollow, even as she tries to convince herself it's fine.

To repeat myself:

Even if you want to call it genocide and be a total sperg about it, let's put that aside and assume the canvas will be totally safe and locked away somewhere and not destroyed ever. Alicia STILL needs to get the fuck out of the goddamn canvas. "It's genocide" is not a valid defense for her living in this fake delusion of "people" that her family literally created and can control at will.

And he kinda gets to be, since he's the only one here who has a chance of understanding what Real Verso would want to do with the last shard of his soul.

This is what makes my stance on the matter unshakeable.

still Clair Obscur because of the juxtaposition of black ink on white paper.

So her whole life then is just going to be her coping with paintings and one of her family dragging her out kicking and screaming when she's staying too long?

You will never have to live a life you don't want

looks like ma-ill fags don't even play the game

Anon play the game, Renoir knew she was lying. Literally your boy painted Verso confirms that he knew. Renoir just couldn't bring himself to keep trying to take away the one thing that made his daughter happy. He just wanted to have a nice goodbye with her rather than argue into infinity.

Verso's ending is the midwit ending

Alicia STILL needs to get the fuck out of the goddamn canvas

In your hypothetical sure, because it won't get destroyed. Although she doesn't need to leave right then either, but sure before she dies (got probably 80 years).

can control at will

Clea can, not Alicia

they can force Painters outside of the canvas

No, they can't. In every instance of them fighting a painter they are aided by other painters and the painters they defeat aren't actually hugely troubled by the Lumierans themselves.

>You will never have to live a life you don't want

literal reference to suicide

You never see Lune's feet in Maelle's ending. You do in Verso's.

Clair Obscur is probably a series title like Final Fantasy

Marche and Verso would be bros

"Sorry, I fucked up. I was just trying to show off."

I relate to Monaco more then in expected to.

No retard. She'll grow to use her paintings responsibly like the rest of her family does before Verso died.

They are by right correct to do as they please with the Canvas. If you give a shit about the people within the painting, the only rational and logical decision to allow them to exist as we do is for the painting to be left alone. The Canvas is doomed to be destroyed one way or another and is justifiably destroyed, because of what it's doing to people whose lives are more valued than the painted beings based on the judgement of the patriarch of the family.

Versofag saying painted people can't force painters out of the canvas

Oh no it's retarded

the party forced Aline out before Maelle regained her powers, genius

There was argument given in other threads.

Fact is that time in painted world goes faster. Say 10 hours of Painted time is actually 1 min of Real World time.
Assume that you have computer in the real world that solves task X for 10 hours. Then creating that computer in painted world will solve the task for 10 hours of Painted Time which is 1 min Real World time.

Does the painting have the power to simulate all physical processes of the real world, down the the chemistry of the brain and quantum bullshit? How can the painter create such thing without being literal god tier intellect in the real world? Given how retarded most of the family is they can't be that intelligent.

Can the painter paint someone smarter than him? What about 1000 of people who are just as smart as him.

If those things are possible somehow why are they not living in advanced society given the power of those paintings? The paintings being just dream worlds where you are on LSD makes more sense.

Why would she when her real life is going to be so garbage?

another retard thinking the lumina converter is actually the leveling system

but does verso have the right to destroy the painting?

You're given an entire scene at the end where Verso's SOUL tells you that it's tired of this existence and wants to stop painting,

Actually, you have painted Verso strutting up to a confused and semi-coherent child and say "you're tired of painting, aren't you?"

The apparition of real Verso standing outside Renoir's boss room is still debating whether he wants to continue painting or not. Throughout his appearances he's talked about how things inside the painting are as real as outside and doesn't want them to die, but also understood when things needed to die to be at peace (in the case of painted Clea).

It's ambiguous as fuck on what Verso's soul wants. Not least because he's a LITERAL CHILD and can't begin to grasp the responsibility of maintaining a universe, what it would mean to paint forever, and that he does deserve to rest/die (whether now or in the future).

Which makes both endings exceedingly fucked up. You either have a guy convince a kid to kill himself because he *assumes* that's what he wants, or have a girl convince the same kid to exist in a delirious half-existence to sustain her mother's make-believe society that went sentient .

so true. maybe ill take up painting

You're doing it again. Stop the make-believe nonsense for a second and understand that Lumiere was never meant to be. There is nothing outside of Lumiere for humans. It's just Lumiere. It's a bastardized creation. Renoir was going to eject Aline out of the Canvas no matter what, as Clea's Nevrons were tipping the scales to a degree where it's only a matter of time before it ends. It's a foregone conclusion.

he party forced Aline out before Maelle regained her powers

Actually Maelle did gommage her in the same way she gommaged painted Renoir. Verso grabs her hand and places it on Aline like Curator Renoir did with Painted Renoir.

But the obvious one is Verso beating Maelle and kicking her out of the canvas.

because the Painters managing all this shit are mentally ill 1800s French artfags instead of 1500s polymath Italian and German Renaissance men

Verso did barely any painting and became a pianist

Alicia was meh at painting and preferred books

Clea is the best painter of the siblings and really fucking good

Somehow Verso and Alicia became the parents favourites instead

???

Isn't everyone in Lumiere already dead though? We know when Gestrals are reborn, they're different than they were before. Similar, but not the same. And while Lune and Sciel seem to have been effectively remade, it was with people Maelle had been very close to, and very shortly after it happened, and with fresh (and quite possibly their own) chroma. If everyone was still alive before Verso had the fragment of Verso's soul stop painting, I feel like it would be a different story. But in her ending it feels less like she's saving the people of Lumiere, and more like she's just painted new versions of them. In which case, wouldn't the best thing she could do be to leave the painting and paint hundreds of canvases full of people? And also let's not forget that the while there are a lot of painted people alive in Maelle's ending, it still does involve what really seems like the active domination/torture of one of those sentient people. Which I suppose means both endings involve making a suicidal person continue living against their wishes, but one of them seems to involve active mental domination, and the other doesn't.

It's still annoying that if she and Aline were able to just visit the canvas without needing to retreat into it, they wouldn't have to die and Renoir wouldn't feel the need to burn the canvas, and everyone could be okay.

I kinda wish this twist had never happened, or had happened in another way. It's cool and all, but leaves a game hollow.

looks like ma-ill fags don't even play the game

We do. Which is why we repeatedly belabor Verso's ending is for the mentally compromised because he is enabling the same "escapism" Versocels are allegedly so militant against. Alicia follows his advice, and the cycle of grief repeats itself with Renoir once more fighting to eject his daughter out of a canvas.

But Verso will be dead, so it is not his problem. It is hypocrisy of both him and his fags at its finest.

If those things are possible somehow why are they not living in advanced society given the power of those paintings?

they're retarded

I am convinced.

But the obvious one is Verso beating Maelle and kicking her out of the canvas.

Verso and Maelle were in a subspace of the painting and something fucky was going on. Alicia even says Verso shouldn't be able to exist there and Sciel disappears within seconds of entering. The rules in that sub-space are clearly different to the painting.

it's not but it's a good metaphor. Passive usage of Pictos is just as important as actually levelling up. Verso was unable to get past Dueliste without it

Renoir did not consign himself to letting his daughter die by living forever in the canvas, that goes against everything established about his character over the course of the game. Even for the sake of argument if he knew she was lying, his leaving is just a tactical retreat until he can gain his strength (and Alicia will be weaker later by remaining in the canvas) so he can go back in and retrieve her. He wants his real family in the real world.

In your hypothetical sure, because it won't get destroyed.

This becomes a chicken and the egg problem then. Why is the canvas guaranteed to be destroyed if she leaves? So she and her mom can't be tempted to trap themselves in there again. Why is she trapping herself in there in her ending? To prevent it being destroyed (which is a cop-out IMO, she's using that as an excuse for her escapism).

After all is said and done the canvas is just a pile of cocaine that the ladies are snorting ad nauseam to deal with their grief. It's unhealthy and destructive and shouldn't be done.

Reminder if your sole reasoning for picking the Maelle ending is that you believe she would be unable to find joy in reality as a result of her injuries then you are an ableist and should be ashamed of yourselves.

I think the main problem with why they became too attached to this one canvas is because of the connection it has to Verso.
I don't even think the game thinks escapism is necessarily bad, at least to a degree. The problem is Alicia and Aline are taking it to the point of "I would rather fucking die in this illusion then acknowledge reality."

We did, and we saw Verso lying and being a little bitch from the moment he appeared.

There is no gotcha about this. He himself is aligned with the world outside of the Canvas the moment he realizes that Alicia is dooming herself. He is the only person who has the right.

Not that anon but the only thing that dictates what should or shouldn't exist in the canvas is Verso's soul, which says it loves other peoples' creations in the painting and it's even why Verso made the canvas in the first place. The only thing in the canvas he doesn't like is obviously Clea's nevrons.

>Alicia was meh at painting and preferred books

>Clea is the best painter of the siblings and really fucking good

>Somehow Verso and Alicia became the parents favourites instead

Renoir saw that Alicia had the greatest potential of his children for painting. Thats why her axon is the Reacher.

I don't think she couldn't find it, I just think out of the four remaining painters she'll easily struggle the most.

what if I simply value the people of Lumiere more than the D*ssendres?

Oh, you're one of those autists that don't understand things unless people very clearly and plainly announce their thoughts and feelings. That makes sense.

Isn't everyone in Lumiere already dead though?

If they can be brought back the same I would say no.

We know when Gestrals are reborn, they're different than they were before.

Pet analogy, not the same thing, see Lune and Sciel.

it feels less like she's saving the people of Lumiere, and more like she's just painted new versions of them

I mean maybe, this is really up to interpretation. Based on all the evidence I think it's more likely that anyone not killed by nevrons is fair game if you can get their chroma (and with Renoir gone, she controls all the chroma). She tells Lune/Sciel she can bring everyone back like them except the people killed by nevrons.
I also doubt Alicia can just make people. It seems like something that would be way about the skill of someone who is the worst painter. We don't even see Clea/Renoir make actual people. Verso made Gestrals/Grandis instead of humans too.
Also I don't think there's any "active mental domination" going on, we're pretty much explicitly told and shown that's not a thing.

She'll struggle and may not even paint. She can pursue other interests. She gives herself a chance to move forward from her own grief, but see that she isn't as helpless as she thinks she is.

It's convincing as fuck, and it's why I *want* to side with Verso, but it's still too grey for me to do that. It all comes back to the people of Lumiere, how it's not their fault they exist because one grieving god decided to create their parents to play happy families. It isn't fair to kill an entire world of living breathing people for the sake of one kid, but it also isn't fair to keep him going on in some kind of The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas nightmare

Life keeps forcing cruel choices

He is the only person who has the right.

according to any coherent system of ethics, absolutely no one has the right.

Wasn't the mom also meant to be butthurt or dissapointed Verso quit painting? It is kinda of she favoured him so much.
Renoir probably just felt she needed it most since she's the shut-in of the three and Clea has her shit together. Clea seems the most independent, but is probably somewhat resentful of being kind of left by herself. Would factor into why she's a cunt to Alicia on top of her fuck up getting Verso killed.

The most successful expedition didn't require any passives.

Oh shit when did the goalposts get all the way over there into that headcanon?
Just equip the subspace immunity picto and btfo the painters I guess.

STOP QUOTING PAPA AND PLAY THE FUCKING PIANO

Clea is skilled but she became disenfranchised with the creative process because she realized early on that her mortality would prevent her from seeing all of the art that the world had to offer before her death. As a result she's more obsessed with the politics of the guild warfare than with her art which probably affects her parents opinion of her.

You are correct. However it's because those creations were made by Aline with her unhealthy goals in mind that make the people of Lumiere a mistake. Clea, Aline, Renoir and Alicia all trample on Verso's Canvas.

Clea is a fucking twat that has no respect for her creations. Alicia is Renoir's child through and through down to get lost in her own creation. Clea is Aline's child through and through, someone who thinks of the painting and the people within as puppets to enjoy playing with.

Neither parent seemed to like Verso much when he died. Painted Verso (by Alina, reflecting her opinion and feelings about him) lies and is evasive about basically everything and Renoir painted the Visages who hide everything behind masks and who Monoco refers to He Who Guards Truth With Lies to represent him.

I don't remember if we ever get any indication what the canvas was like before Aline turned it into her safe space.

That is literally what happens in the game you dumb fuck. Alicia very plainly states "you shouldn't be able to be here".

Painted Verso was supportive of the moms plan initially, until he saw how she was shitting all over the canvas, the spiteful way she treated the painted Renoir and Alicia and treating him like a replacement for the real Verso.

And the Dessendre family all killed themselves and everyone in the painting lived happily ever after.

Also I have lots of sex with Lune

THE END

ending shows her happy

shows her imaginary friends waving goodbye; she is moving on

dad and mom and holding hands again

"UM ACTUALLY SHE'S MISERABLE", source: I made it up

and they do this because they know without making shit up they have zero point and zero argument. VersoCHADS save their sister; escapismVIRGINS doom her and kill her.

yes there is, he absolutely has no right to decide to kill off his fellow sentient being just because he himself wants to die
he didnt even have the gall to look at lune in the eye as she died from his betrayal, so even he is aware of this
hes a bastard
real renoir isnt, cause he is doing right by his prespective, he understands hes a villain to the people of the painting and accepts this
verso however is a dishonest selfish prick that mostly does what he does cause he cant deal with being himself, and he will drag everyone down with him while pretending to help them
not that maelle's ending is any better
i would say, the only morally right person(s) in this whole story is both renoirs, cause theyre both fighting for what is theirs

Yeah, it basically is all Aline's fault especially for making copies of her family. Verso made his canvas for his family to enjoy nice adventures and the feeling of exciting new beginnings, but Aline instead uses it to cling to the past. He could never have predicted how his creations would be used.

Yes Aline did something so Verso could be in that space.
Huge reach to say "this is the specific reason Verso can kick Alicia out of the canvas".

Painted Renoir got a bad fucking hand

he didnt even have the gall to look at lune in the eye

he stares her directly in the fucking face, holds her gaze, and then turns his back on her and walks away you lying retard
Why do ALL these people lie to try to make their dumb bad end of escapism seem good?

yeah
before she fades

Why is her family gone in the last scene?
Why is Gustave beckoning instead of waving?
Why did the grave say December 33?
Why is there a painting with the year 33 monolith in the IRL manor before Maelle even goes into the canvas?

I just finished the game and I am already satisfied by the amount of Marche posting I see.

dualliste? huh? is this a typo? shouldn't it be the french word for duelist duelliste or some shit?

he pulls a second sword and starts dual wielding

ok that got me good

let the disabled girl play her visual novels in peace
stop being evil

I still don't know if I like or dislike the whole reveal.

Verso's death literally mind broke Aline

Verso could always make Renoir laugh, they had tons of inside jokes

Neither parent seemed to like Verso much when he died.

Painted Renoir was a retard.
He should have just gone to Lumiere and explained the situation. Take expedition 60 straight to real Renoir.

She can still do that in the Verso ending though

Yes Aline did something so Verso could be in that space.

Huge reach to say "this is the specific reason Verso can

It's not a huge reach at all. If you admit that Aline gave Verso the ability to exist in that space then maybe she gave him the ability to boot out Alicia. What now fucko?

because both endings are fucked you imbecille
youre the one trying to make it so one is good when it really isnt

His bastardized existence, his painting, his rules. Anon, it's that simple. He's left with no choice by the end of the game because of the two gods who keep fucking with the world.

Maelles ending

so an NPC awarded me 100 lumina points on act III.
I'm pretty sure I killed a white nevron before, the first one you find and still got the reward

her family fucks off to go ruin more creations

Alicia is still there at Verso's grave clutching Esquie

yeah she's so happy

That holds up with Aline, I agree. More loosely with Maelle since she wants to live out a life with her brother's facsimile, but she is aware it is an illusion and knows that illusion has an expiration date. But "Verso" is where I stop calling the canvas an illusion or correlating it with escapism. Every other reason she chooses to remain is valid in my eyes. I would never abandon pic related to go back and live as a maimed cripple for even two seconds if there was a possibility of my father obliterating my second family and life of 16 years due to his inability to control his wife.

my interpretation beats your interpretation!

You think your reading of the subtext of his emotions makes your conclusion of what he was doing as "obvious" and I'm saying you're wrong. Bro is not sitting for 100+ years (or thousands or whatever) trying to fight his wife out of the canvas only to get steamrolled in a weakened state by his 16 year old daughter and just go "whelp that's it boys, pack it in, we're leaving her to die in delusion land! Oh well, here's my sad face and sweet goodbyes!"

Don't throw autistic stones from autistic glass houses anon

I don't dislike the plot with the Dessandres, but basically abandoning the expedition in favor of them was jarring

retard, holy fucking blind retard

again: I made it up. Everyone's waving but trust me, he's telling her to kill herself just trust me bro my mind tells me so

not our world, holy fucking RETARD again

has nothing to do with anything

also this retard: UM the ending where she dies is actually le GOOD and the one where she lives I will pretend she dies in, okay?

To be fair, when both parents made a painted version of him, it seems like the main thing they thought of him is how much of a liar he was.

She should learn to paint and make her own worlds.

trust me it's bad because I saw so and make believe so trust me, ignore the framing of the scene it's bad

lmao they just never stop

One is bittersweet. The other is a celebration of keeping up a delusion. People aligned with Maelle are disingenuous and keep trying to bait people into a debate, when a rational and reasonable person will be able to piece it all together and come to the conclusion that Verso's ending is the correct choice.

Average expedition 60 member

Why is there a painting with the year 33 monolith in the IRL manor

Is this true?

Maybe she didn't and painted people can just do that if they're strong enough? What now fucko?

that's not how it works

I created you so I can destroy your soul on a whim

is insanity, even YHWH promises you eternal salvation if you have faith and do good deads

Why does nobody take in consideration Verso's sou;, who wanted to stop painting?

Are those the naked chads?

She can do that without being fucked in the head and obsessing over her dead brother.

Aline loved the people of lumiere so much she created Renoir to massacre all expeditions instead of just making a giant forcefield around her

It's up to the left of the front door on the 2nd floor during the Alicia epilogue.
I'm not the same person as the guy who said she kills her self retard I don't think that. I also think both endings are bad.
Gustave is 100% beckoning though.

Nice headcanon bro. Post the pasta of Gustave beckoning her back into the painting again while you're at it.

It been brought up in every one of these threads I've seen.

it's not bad or good
really it could go either way for Alicia
you seem to be under the impression the Dessendres were a big happy family before the fire, but that really doesn't work with what we know from them

Verso's soul is confused and at times throughout the story wants to keep painting and other times wants to stop because it's destroying his family.

That's why I'm off two minds about it. Because I do like the plot, but it also feels like it made everything before with Gustave, Lune, Sciel and such kind of pointless.
Lune and Sciel feel like they're only brought back for gameplay purposes because they barely matter in act 3.

>Isn't everyone in Lumiere already dead though?

If they can be brought back the same I would say no.

NTA but I think if someone can be brought back to life, then definitively they aren't alive.
If you really want to ride that argument, then anyone Alicia or another Painter could ever paint is also alive, so Alicia giving up Lumiere to leave and paint other paintings saves more lives than her killing herself to save Lumiere ever would

Aline created painted Renoir as part of her fake family >100 years ago.
Real Renoir caused the fracture 67 years ago.
Painted Renoir started killing expeditions after Clea made Nevrons to kill expeditions in a way where Aline couldn't recover the chroma.

Simon says your shield is my shield now

oh... o-okay y-you too...

no, it isnt
thats you trying to cope
funny cause youre doing what youre accusing others of doing
there is no correct choice
shit was fucked the moment aline went mental
basically everyone is a victim of her grief
cant blame a cripled kid for wanting to escape a very shitty life
i even say verso is not at fault, cause he was drivent to do it, hes is still a selfish bastard, but it is understandable
funniest part is, in the end, the paintress really was the villain as established at the start

Show me where in the painting a painted person solo defeats a painter and I'll except that you're not retarded.

Yep, who managed to reach the paintress, and went under the monolith while one tried to get back to Lumiere and got real close to reveal the truth to everyone

It's not his painting though because he's not Verso. He's not even a copy of the real Verso; he's just an imitation made from someone else's memories of Verso.

By inheritance law the painting is Renoir's or Aline's.

parry? nah, I'm literally him

Isn't everyone in Lumiere already dead though?

Basically, yeah. It adds an extra layer of moral grey that turns this into the world's most convoluted trolley problem.

Especially as it's heavily implied Alicia wasn't a particularly good Painter to begin with, so everyone other than Lune and Sciel might be just NPC-style simulacrums rather than Aline's fully sentient begins.

We know when Gestrals are reborn, they're different than they were before

Ohhhhh shit very good point. It's why seeing that Maelle brought Pierre and Gustave back is where the creeping dread starts, even before Verso steps on stage and we get the artsy 4:3 black and white shift.

In which case, wouldn't the best thing she could do be to leave the painting and paint hundreds of canvases full of people?

Theoretically yes, and I think it's where Renoir's whole "we painted hundreds of worlds" tries to come in to convince us that it's better to burn this particular canvas. Kind of like a grandfather paradox. "Is it right to prevent countless other worlds and lives being created to save this particular one?"

Which I suppose means both endings involve making a suicidal person continue living against their wishes, but one of them seems to involve active mental domination, and the other doesn't.

Thank you! I was going crazy feeling like I'm the only one who picked up on that parallel between both endings.

Especially considering their backstories

Verso and his painted family lived as Aline's living puppets, a life so bad painted Renoir was actively prolonging the stalemate so he had actual time with his actual family. Also Verso can't choose to die because of Aline and Maelle

Maelle had an entire life of nothing but death, losing real parents and surrogate parents left right and centre, then realises she had a whole separate childhood and family torn from her outside the painting, and is now being told she isn't allowed to make a choice about her expedition family living or dying

The question about whether or not the characters are the same after being repainted is retarded. If you are watching an anime or reading a comic or reading a manga, is every new drawing of the same character a new person?

Get a grip.

Verso watching hundreds of name gigachads and stacey's make it all the way to the monolith

What do you think he was thinking of that time?

just ignore that Maelle is fucking miserable

THERE IS NO ONE NAMED MAELLE
HER NAME IS ALICIA AND HER MISERY IS HER OWN DAMN FAULT

the average Expedition 60 CHAD with a lumina converter could dropkick every single Dessendre shit back to reality
Verification? Not required.

It's not even remotely the same, are you retarded?

is a high school girl writing fanfiction writing the same characters as the show's actual writers?

Their souls tell a different story.

Yeah, otherwise you'd be stuck with just Monaco, Verso and Maelle if they weren't brought back.

NTA but I think if someone can be brought back to life, then definitively they aren't alive.

Are people in fantasy settings with resurrection not actually alive? It's magic returning someone to corporeal form in a setting where they discorporate into chroma after "dying".

I mean yes, theoretically Alicia or any painter could make a ton of new real people that would be just as real as the people of Lumiere. But this is like saying a woman could have a bunch of children so if she doesn't she's killing all of those children. Idk the specific ethics of this but I doubt you'll find any reasonable person agreeing with that.

Renoir's paintings of Verso and Alicia both highlight the obstacles he sees (or saw) in the way of their potential. It is a very fatherly view to take.

He is conflicted about it throughout the game but all the fighting and deaths have soured him on it.

Yes, the joke expedition probably could because they're basically Team Gurren.

you watch anime and you think this, are you retarded?

The game literally refuted this argument with Noco. The repainted version isn't the same.

Calm down sperg, Alicia is the painted girl, Alicia irl is Maelle.

Says who? You? You don't get to bring up the Judeo-Christian God and then think for him because that's what you believe is right. God does as he pleases. In this painted world, Verso's soul promises no such thing. He's tired. He wants to be done and the only person who cared about this was Painted Verso. Renoir sympathizes with the painted world, but it ultimately matters not.

comically evil

it's not though
it's the exact same thing her mother did

I need to exercise more.

And redye my hair.

Then why is the Axon just "this guy is a liar"?
Why is painted Verso just constantly a lying traitor bitch?
They can certainly love a liar though, it's not really mutually exclusive.

one of the fading boy NPCs literally says "only he can do what needs to be done" in reference to wiping the canvas

retard

I would marry crispy Alicia.
Do you think she'd let you cum in her eye hole?

There is no indication that Alicia is suicidal. In fact she wants to live with her brother for as long as possible. If she wanted to kill herself she had ample opportunity to do it after Verso died because her entire family were preoccupied with getting Aline out the painting and weren't paying any attention to her whatsoever.

lmao why do spergs always make these threads when they get btfo?

cause he conviced a kid it was better to die
real heroic

Ok that's a good interpretation, I like that.

You got him there, anon.

She could use your cum to moisturize her scars.

Then why is the Axon just "this guy is a liar"?

It isn't.

fucking ESL spergs I swear this website had been overrun

and is now being told she isn't allowed to make a choice about her expedition family living or dying

I'm with you up until the end, but there was a path that let Alicia get both that she didn't take.
I think Renoir would've legitimately let the painting stay around if she kept her promise to leave soon.
Renoir didn't want to destroy the painting, but because he didn't have time to wrangle his wife, newly crippled daughter, and a war at the same time it was inevitable.
If he could get his wife and daughter onboard with not killing themselves, then the painting would have been fine.

I interpreted Visages as Renoir knowing that Verso lies about his passion to make his parents happy. Renoir knows deep down that Verso wanted to be a musician, rather than a painter.

That's not an interpretation, Alicia basically states it outright when you're in The Reacher.

If they can be brought back the same I would say no.

Pet analogy, not the same thing, see Lune and Sciel.

I mentioned Lune and Sciel might be special cases, since they were brought back so quickly, with fresh chroma, and Maelle knew them quite well after travelling with them. But do we have any indication she could do so for the entire city?

If she CAN bring them back exactly as they were, then I can see why people would make the argument. I think even if they are painted people, they're essentially indistinguishable from real people sentience/sapience-wise, so I could see their deaths counting heavily for people. But it still also feels to me kind of like Gurren Lagann: "Simon's not God, Gimmy." Which I mean I feel like the Desendre's don't put much stock into that line since they make their own worlds, but still: is Maelle going to just revive everyone that ever dies in Lumiere until she passes away after a couple hundred years?

She tells Lune/Sciel she can bring everyone back like them except the people killed by nevrons.

I need to find this line again, but I do remember something like that. I know she definitely couldn't get back people killed by Nevrons, but her bringing people back still isn't really explained: does she just need their chroma? Or does she have to know them as well? What about babies that were born after Expedition 33 set out, can she revive people she's never even met?

Also I don't think there's any "active mental domination" going on, we're pretty much explicitly told and shown that's not a thing.

If you don't mind me asking, where were we told that wasn't a thing? Because Aline was definitely able to mentally mess with Alicia by making her think she was Maelle for 16 years. And Verso at the end really seems to be fighting to avoid playing that Piano, which also feels like something he wouldn't exactly want to be doing after literally begging for death in the previous scene. That definitely feels like domination.

Damn, so I'd be helping her too.
Well, if it's for her own good I'll just have to shoot plenty of loads on her!

absolute room temp iq on display here

Maellefags are the kind of fags that think rape is worse than murder

>ending shows her happy

I interpret the Mona Lisa as smiling happily therefore every argument against that is objectively false to a laughable degree

MUST we hyperbolise? Shit's ambiguous, and that's the literal point. Same with how Maelle's expression in her ending can be read as a grimace as much as a delulu grin

God does as he pleases.

Correction. A malevolent god does as he pleases, and a malevolent god isn't worth following. If you want to get really pedantic, then you can mention the fact Painters have hundreds of worlds all with a fragment of their souls powering them, meaning there are hundreds of potential Versouls all in agony and wishing they could stop. Would you advocate committing omnicide on a scale that would probably never be seen in human history?
Besides, it isn't even true. If you actually talk to Versoul throughout the game you would know he's torn on the matter and could go either way.

Convinced

He asked. He's the only person who cares about Verso, despite all these twats grieving for him. Women were a mistake.

Are people in fantasy settings with resurrection not actually alive?

The status effect is called death. Its literally the definition of not being alive.
In fantasy settings with resurrection, their souls are in the afterlife with everyone else, at least thats how generic DnD works.

Did they mention how much time was passing in the "real" world? Months? Years?

Not that anon, but you're incorrect. Alicia is the name of the real 16 year old redhead burned girl out in reality (and the name of the painted black and white version in the canvas). Maelle is the name of the unburned Lumiere-born version of her when Alicia initially went into the canvas.

I'm not sure how you could make this mistake and you can easily rectify this by doing some basic googling. unless you're baiting me in which case I fell for it.

Also both those paintings exist in the real world prior to the game, so the feelings that went into those paintings likely occurred before the events of the game.

Presumably Verso's axon would have been different if Renoir had to use his present feelings towards his dead son to paint it, but perhaps there is some benefit in reusing an existing painting.

there is no such thing as a self-defense rape

Not in total but Renoir was trapped under the monolith for 67 years.

Lumerians kidnapped and tortured his son.
It's understandable that he stopped interacting with them and started to kill them on sight.

this is precisely the reason why the Maelle ending is a "good" ending. we all choose to live our lives the way we want and that both hurts and helps others. Maelle is fine to do what she wants. the canvas people will ultimately die when Maelle dies but at least she can live for the moment and live fully. i dont think the game writers did this ending justice in exposing that bittersweetness. we have to make this up because the ending we got is a corny jumpscare "le BAD!!!"

contrastingly, the other ending is also a "good" ending in that Maelle is alive and her darling precious fantasy characters fade into oblivion. horrifying but we've all lived through it. and like Renoire says, "it gets better, i promise." Maelle will move on and make her own paintings and have her own life, theres nothing saying she cant.

the same reasoning required to flesh out the Maelle "good" ending is what is making people think read too deeply into the Verso "good" ending. they are both good endings but the game writers fucked up and made on "le BAD!"

Alicia brings Lune and Sciel back, complete as they were and even with knowledge Alicia can't have. This may be due to how recent they died but its not too far fetched that it will work for everyone else.

Verso's real passion was music

his mother and little sister only remember him by the one painting he did more than a decade ago

Tragic really.

Thats just because you're not imaginative enough. Or haven't read enough hentai.

Alicia grabs their chroma at the moment they're gommaged. That's why they're still mostly themsevles.

Then why is the Axon just "this guy is a liar"?

It isn't. You're either an idiot or being intentionally dishonest. There's a reason its full name was He Who Guards Truth With Lies. You're blatantly mischaracterizing it and if you're doing so on purpose, nobody should listen to you regarding anything.

Maelle will move on and make her own paintings and have her own life

this is precisely the problem. None of these retards should have the power over creation that the Painters do.

There is only suffering for the painted ones. No matter the good intentions of the Painter. They can repaint, alter your mind, whenever.

read Simon's journal

big dick chad

wants to save his Clea but got tricked by real Clea

kills an axon

goes off to fight The Paintress

Paintress tells him the truth

goes down into the Abyss to fight Renoir solo

spends 67 in the Abyss trying to keep his mind intact while Renoir keeps trying to repaint it

FUCK the Painters.

For all we know that's why the Writers tried to kill them.

verso's ending is alicia making peace with herself and the family trying to work it out
maelle's ending is alicia giving in to her overwhelming grief and repeating the cycle her mother created

it's really that simple
whether that family deserves a ""happy"" ending is entirely up to you though

Let me put it in simple terms for you, that the game itself uses.

One ending is WheeWhooWheeWhoo.
The other is WhooWheeWhooWhee.

If you let the finale 5 second shot of either ending define the entirety of the narrative up to that point (including within the endings themselves), you're not the intellectual you present yourself to be.

Shit. Is. Subjective. *That's* the authorial intent here.

Can anyone explain to me why is there a painting of the number 33 on the monolith in the manor (both in the real world and in the painted world)?

The soul of Verso is benevolent and loves his painted creations and does not wish for there to be any creatures that would harm his painting to be roaming around the world, yes. But, at the same time he is exhausted and wants his soul to be laid to rest. There is a reason why Painted Verso ASKS, rather than just takes out the kid at the back with a Glock. You are, once again arguing with YOUR idea of what God should and shouldn't do. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand with the Painter family in mind. They are not the Judeo-Christian God.

I want a Simon DLC

Reusing concept art.

I STINKING MAD

tbf it isnt really explained how painters can create humans that self-generate. we know Boy Verso made gestrals and we know Aline was a really good painter so it stands to reason that she taught her family how to make self-replicating humans that feed off chroma or whatever. and such a delight has violent, dangerous implications, etc. its a cool concept

there's no such thing as self defense murder, either, genius.

Its not that long - the human body still needs to sustain itself so probably days or weeks.

this is precisely the reason why the Maelle ending is a "good" ending. we all choose to live our lives the way we want

Unless you're Verso, in which case your feelings can be discarded and your sister can choose to puppet you like a marionette until she commits suicide because some painted people apparently have more rights than others

hey kid you must be real tired huh (like me)

how bout you stop painting right fucking now (and give me sweet oblivion)

Verso's jewry knows no bounds.

because aline painted it?
it's what she uses to fuck up verso's canvas

Why shouldn't I indulge in escapism? Why should I always confront my grief? Because the game told me to? Theres no logical reason when the alternative is a real universe you control with magic powers, extended lifespan, etc.

This seems like an oversight on their part. Either that or the real world is actually a world created by the writers

is there any implication that writing, in the painters' IRL world, is essentially a window manipulated by the writers? like anything you read in the world could essentially be a Palantir that infects your mind

I can't stand Versotards anymore. I just can't fucking stand them. The most normie tier retards you can ever imagine. Fuck these fags.
Was watching a girl play the game earlier and everyone spammed her chat to choose the verso ending but she was actually based and chose Maelle. I clapped.
Fuck these retards fucking normies.

I wish more anons were like you and understood this instead of his imposing their hypocritical views as a moral absolute or lesser evil. No matter which option you select, both options are morally dubious. A cruel choice is a cruel choice. We're all hypocrites, doing the same thing to each other. Both Verso and Maelle cosign the other to a life of misery because they both think they "know" better. And the player is either is either enabling omnicide and betraying E33 and all life in the canvas for the sake of one family's grief - or enabling the suffering of Verso's soul fragment and delivering the deathblow to the Dessendre's recovery.

When I made my choice, I knew what I was doing. It was the inverse of my experience with Nier Automata where I agonized between A2 and 9S.The decision was made before the option was even given to me: I immediately wanted to control Maelle to kill Verso. I hit X on "Play as Maelle" in a blink. I knew I was damning the Dessendre, but I have no reason to care about them. I also saw that the soul was tired, but I also knew the only reason it was tired was because the family dispute was ruining his canvas. Either way, I was going to prioritize Lumiere and the canvas. It was selfish. But both choices are selfish. That's the beauty of it. Thank you for reading my blog.

AI faggot

of course

There are a few reasons I think Maelle can do it:

Maelle says she can do it

Lune talks about being able to feel Gustave's chroma after he dies, also Lune/Sciel, so we definitely know people remain around as Chroma after death

There isn't really any explicit indication given that people's chroma because unable to be returned to corporeal form, with the exception of being killed by nevrons. You put a lot of stock in the speed but idk if that actually matters much.

If she can't do it, that would be a really good reason for her to just take a break and go to a new canvas if she wants to. She can just make the people the same as they are in this canvas, since the people in this canvas already aren't the originals. I feel like Renoir/Verso would have 100% brought this up if it was the case.

where were we told that wasn't a thing?

We're shown "painting over" to control someone is a thing. We're told only Clea can paint over someone else's creation. Aline paints over Alicia to make Maelle, but Alicia isn't a painted creation. Painted over people are very visually fucked up (see painted Clea, Simon).

Verso at the end really seems to be fighting to avoid playing that Piano

The ending is intentionally vague with what's going on. Personally that's not how I interpret it at all (and I could write a whole other long post about all my thoughts on that scene). Sure maybe Maelle became a skill enough painted to just control people with no visual signs, but that seems unlikely to me.

I think of the Writers as an order, quite conservative and strict in their rules. Painters are more liberal, embracing their art with reckless creative abandon. Both can use their powers to create worlds and alter their own but the Writers see themselves more as a vanguard against abusing their gifts. Painters would see their gifts as something to be fully used and explored.

There is no mostly themselves.

You can escape from grief. We all do it. Moving on is easier said than done. The issues is when that's all you're doing and what you're content with. You'd be speedrunning being a crazy homeless person at that point (Which is Maelle btw, she's collecting cans outside as we speak)

why shouldn't I live in the heroin box

No ones stopping you, get in the heroin box.
You won't notice when we scrap it seconds after you get in, you'll be high on heroin.

I mean if you want to kill yourself then go ahead.

crab bucket mentality

its not healthy

reality isnt healthy

muh feelings discarded

"hey son i want to die, i'm tired"

"oh sure, go ahead mom, it's your decision anyway"

i bet you would do nothing

one ending has her and the family dealing with their grief instead of running away
the other is alicia running away and the family presumably falling further apart

people are looking way to deep into something that is t complicated at all

You are, once again arguing with YOUR idea of what God should and shouldn't do. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand with the Painter family in mind.

It is extremely relevant because the whole framework of the religion is based on a contract or covenant between god and mortals. God promises eternal life and salvation while humanity promises faith and good works. There is no such pact with the Painters who do whatever the fuck they want and the humans just have to eat shit and take it. Therefore the humans have no obligation to submit to Versoul's wishes or the wishes of any other Painter for that matter.

He wants to stop painting but also thinks maybe he should continue. He appears several times in act 3 flip-flopping between the two, at one point shortly before the final boss he even straight up asks "What do you think, should I keep painting?" and just agrees with whatever you say. It shows that he can't decide anymore because of all the bad shit that is happening on his canvas, so he is willing to be swayed.

that is not*

EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN

THIS IS IMPORTANT LISTEN TO ME

Anon Babble sings Lumiere when?

Maellefags think she can do no wrong and hate her family.

In fantasy settings with resurrection, their souls are in the afterlife with everyone else

And in this game their chroma is in the canvas. Remember Lune talks about being able to feel Gustave's chroma when she manipulates chroma? And how Maelle grabs Lune/Sciel's chroma specifically?
After Renoir leaves Maelle has control of all the chroma and can sort out the chroma of dead lumerians and bring them back.

Clea says the painted people aren't real, aren't alive, nor do they have a soul.
So I don't give a fuck what Verso wants because in this house we stand Clea.

If humanity was offered some new special drug that puts you into a fantasy coma where you die irl in a month, but in your coma you live out 1000 years with super powers with complete full body sensation and manipulation powers, a LOT of people would take that to the point where society would collapse.

In response to the question in the image: yes, of course. How many lives of suffering or premature endings is mine built off currently? What is the cost of one more for the eternal happiness of all?

oh christ no that reddit shit is beyond cringe

Are Maellefags this retarded?

and clea is a cunt and has been since she was a kid so there's that

She doesnt say that ever

and shes a cunt

I'm pretty sure chroma works more like a collective consciousness. Everything in the painting is made from chroma so sorting out specific chroma would be incredibly challenging if possible at all.

yes
OP is proof of that

I want a esquie plushie

Clea is a evil bitch.
Go visit Francois at least once before the end you fucking whore.

No ones arguing that, but the same Chroma could be used to generate the equivalent amount of different painted people, whose existence then would be just as valid as the Lumierians.

You should confront your grief

Why? That advice is only applicable when the grief is preventing you from living. But being in the canvas 'is' living. And is a way better life than the so called real world.

OP is missing a few chromasomes lmao

Why shouldn't I indulge in escapism?

This is a rephrasing of the question "what is the meaning of life?" The universe is a cold harsh place and you need to contend with it in order to survive. Our ancestors had it WAY worse than we do and they struggled on to bring us here, and were forced to contend with reality. If you refuse to contend with the real world, why even live? Just kill yourself. Escapism accomplishes nothing other than distract you from reality while time passes. That's fine in limited doses. It is NOT fine on the matter of existence as a whole. If you want your very existence to be escapism from reality, end your life. No joke, there is zero point for you to continue living if you refuse to deal with reality, because you're doing nothing other than winding down the clock.

We see Lune talk about being able to feel specifically Gustave though, and Maell says "I see them" and grabs what is shown to be specifically Lune and Sciel. And then Maelle says she can bring other people back like Lune and Sciel.
There's nothing in the game that even suggests a collective consciousness I can think of.

Really scraping at the bottom of the barrel to talk shit.

retard

fuck off AItard

Ok and in plenty of fantasy settings souls are recycled and reincarnated without increasing or decreasing in number? I don't get your point?

Refute him. Logically, why should he when it is not necessary?

Why didn't Maelle bring back Gustave

Child Verso said that he thinks the painted ones have a soul, have feelings. And he tells us Clea thinks otherwise.

Yes.

Life is about maximizing your own personal fun. Using the canvas maximizes the total fun in your life, and its no less real than outside the canvas.

Wheeee

Painted over people are very visually fucked up (see painted Clea, Simon)

The only argument against this aspect of Maelle's ending is that they were all gommaged, except Clea and Simon. Maybe being resurrected resets them and makes them Alicia's creation even if they keep their memories and personality.

She did?

"Living" in a fake illusion you yourself know isn't real is not living.

waifufags are absolute imbeciles and this thread is further proof of that

normies

not normalfags

is a maellefag

holy fuck you weak bitch, you need to go back

Maelle's ending: Genocide 100x worse than Versos ending
Versos ending: His own painting stops existing (sorry lumierians) but 100s of others come into being

any arguments over which ending is better based on the rights of the painted people is irrelevant.

I agree with all your points, but you are still an AItard. Use something else to be taking more serious next time.

It's wholly irrelevant and those who disagree with the Painter's stance on their worlds can go against them and ultimately fail, as their existence is forfeit to the Painters who can will them in an out of existence. Verso's soul is not a malevolent force hellbent on destroying the world. The tragedy of Lumiere's people being dealt a shit hand was out of Verso's hands to begin with. Both Verso and his Painted self tire of the charade by the end of the story and come to the conclusion that they do not wish to keep up the lie of the world. That's all there is to it, anon. If you did not respect Verso's decision at the end, you'll be the one forever feeling scorned and it doesn't matter.

Yeah, I'm not debating that, but it's not like Gustav is floating around like a ghost following them. It's probably more like a vauge feeling like how you feel a slight breeze. If it was that easy why wouldn't Alicia bring him back when she brings back Sciel and Lune? The reason she can bring back Lune and Sciel is because their chroma hasn't scattered yet and she grabs them at the instant they vanish.

him

(You)

I meant along with Sciel and Lune in act 3, not in the ending

Sure but that would mean being stuck 1000 years in the same state of mind and with the same sensations and experiences recycled over and over. Even more shit if its for a teenager how has barely even experienced the world and has a limited amount to experiences to shape this fantasy world they are in.

The canvases are literal real pocket universes with sentient beings. You guys keep lying and implying the canvas is somehow fake.

but 100s of others come into being

amazing self-own

It's reminding me of the Edelgard shit for Fire Emblem Three Houses. But at least some of them were honest with

I don't care if she's right or not I just think she's cute.

This is the real answer. Even from a utilitarian standpoint the Verso ending is right. You destroy one world but you save two 'basically gods' who go on to create hundreds more worlds.

any arguments over which ending is better based on the rights of the painted people is irrelevant

keep trying, zoom zoom

They're doing the same shit Maelle is doing. Pretending to give a shit about the world, when all that matters is keeping up her personal happiness.

Verso Can go fuck himself for letting Gustave die, just so he Can be able to manipulate and lie to 3 innocent girls.

My decision to go with the Maelle ending is less about the Dessendre family and more about the people of Lumiere.
I don't really give a shit if they are grieving. They have created sentient lives with souls.
They torture them for 67 years and then want to throw them away when they don't want to play with them anymore. Fuck them.

Not to me. I think they have some value. But not as much as a real person.

No, I am not "him." I just want to see you rebut the argument soundly instead of sperging. But I will pretend to be him if it satisfies your delusions. Please, explain why it is necessary that "I" confront grief when it is not a necessity?

This reminds me of that maybe-fake story of that Japanese guy who had his wife die in the 2011 tsunami and spends the rest of his days going diving in the sea in the area, hopelessly looking for her body or maybe for like a wedding ring. It's sad how he can't move on from his loss but also bittersweet how he refuses to move on and forget her.

Physical aging has nothing to do with personal mindset. A person in the body of a 20 year old who lives to be 1000 will be a completely different person by the end.

I don't see why that would matter if they keep their memories and personality. Painted Verso was made by Aline and then went and fought her and kicked her out of the canvas. It isn't ever shown painters can just control painted people at will. People just assume this because Verso closes his hand which IMO is a combination of:

stage fright

reflecting on his aged body, the back of his hand looks VERY similar to painted Renoir's hand, might even be the same model

reflecting on his helplessness to stop Alicia from killing herself

Question. Let's say the Painters aren't actually shitty human beings and decide to leave the Canvas alone. Would the last piece of Verso's soul not be tortured forever because he'll continue painting for an eternity?

okay so that mean it's perfectly fine to design a torture realm where all the painter does is make their puppets suffer and feel the most excruciating pain?
Because their rights don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I'm just imagining a 5 year old painter with their shitty stick figure doodles coming to life. That would be hilarious

there was a path that let Alicia get both that she didn't take.

Totally agree. Verso's line about "just leave, you can always come back" really cuts into that.

Granted, we don't know to what degree Maelle is right about Renoir erasing the canvas the moment she leaves. He took less than a day to do that once Aline was out, instead of dipping back to reality to have a frank conversation with his wife. Both he and painted Renoir seem all TOO willing to do terrible things in the name of family, throwing caution and consequence to the wind.

I'd hope that he would listen to reason if the Dessendres had a family meeting to discuss rationally, but his actions in act 3 do give Maelle's fears a lot of weight.

But the lack of alternate paths is also why the conflict can feel like each other's fault. Verso thinks in dichotomies (as Lune pointed out at the start of act 3), while Maelle's insistence that she HAS to stay in the canvas kind of validates Verso's logic.

I'm never in a million years going to choose a real nigger over Lune or Gustave if it comes down to it.

I think she was clutching the rose petals from them Gommaging when they ran away from Lumiere at the start of act 3.
My read on it was that she needed something physical or the death needed to be close enough for resurrection to be possible.

She says she can't because Renoir controls all the chroma except for Lune/Sciel which she specifically grabbed, and the dead expeditioners because of how nevrons trap and corrupt chroma when they kill people.

5 year old painter's world

Stick figures who all shit themselves every 5 seconds because it was funny to the boy

Me too, anon.

Yes because Aline sullied the Canvas in her attempt to console her grief
In doing so she ended up ruining the one real connection she still had to her dead son.

With enough time they could probably discern a way to remove it, but Renoir would never take that risk knowing they could get emotionally attached all over again. He will destroy it the moment she leaves and he means it.

Oooh, good point. Ties in with what was saying.

Clea would agree to be honest. She made a species designed to kill lumierans in the most creative and horrible ways. Hell, she even made a giant nevron that swallows you whole and alive.

I was trying to figure out if they actually have knowledge that only they should have, because that's a great indicator. What is that knowledge though? What do we learn about them after they gommage that Maelle couldn't have known beforehand?

If their chroma works kind of like the core of their being, I could see very fresh chroma effectively reviving someone: it's more like Maelle is just erasing the erasure. But my issue is we only really see that one example, but have the example of gestrals definitely not doing that, and I don't feel like there's enough information to definitely say that she can for sure bring everyone back.

>There isn't really any explicit indication given that people's chroma because unable to be returned to corporeal form, with the exception of being killed by nevrons.

Wasn't the problem of being killed by nevrons just that the chroma was stale? The whole poing of nevrons is that they don't do anything to the chroma of people they kill: the chroma just stays where it is, so Aline couldn't reuse it. That's what makes me think time is such a factor: if the paint has been sitting and kind of dried up, it's not going to make as good a painting.

Personally that's not how I interpret it at all (and I could write a whole other long post about all my thoughts on that scene). Sure maybe Maelle became a skill enough painted to just control people with no visual signs, but that seems unlikely to me.

I felt the Painter's eyes thing was a pretty clear indication personally, but I'm actually interested to hear your interpretation. Because to me it was a scene of Verso begging to die and how much he didn't want that life, him going limp, and in the next scene he slowly walks out to a Piano (after the entire shot goes to grey-scale,) hesitates to play it while we can hear him breathing (without hearing anyone else, sort of implying it's loud or labored,) before the jump scare and then him starting to play.

It's hard to say since I don't think we have an explanation on how Canvases work in detail. Does it need to be maintained and supplied with Chroma by a Painter once in a while? Or can you just ignore it and the world inside goes on for eternity until an external force touches it?

But being in the canvas 'is' living. And is a way better life than the so called real world.

That isn't "life" any more than you playing a video game is a watered down version of "another life." And that's okay if you're doing it temporarily as entertainment or distraction or whatever, but not permanently. It's a fake illusion, it isn't "living."

And if she dies outside the canvas, she "dies" inside the canvas, not the other way around. The reality outside the canvas is the root of existence. People need to stop with this retarded bullshit of claiming both realities are totally equivalent and on the same level.

The Canvas is ruined before the start of the game, anon. Aline is a shitty mother.

Not according to Maellefags. They say his soul would be happy to paint for eternity. Even though Verso's true passion was music and not painting.

No I'm saying that they have a limited set of real world experiences to base their simulated experiences off of. A 20 year old living for a 1000 years in a world or their fantasy world will only have 20 years of experience to shape it. Things would get boring REAL fast.

He took less than a day to do that once Aline was out, instead of dipping back to reality to have a frank conversation with his wife

Agree with you aside from this. It was laid out that apparently whoever was in the painting first had 'control' which is why Renoir and Clea had to go long term siege tactics to steal chroma back and force Aline out
Renoir had just gotten control, and if he left he'd lose it. There was no guarantee he'd be able to leave the painting and stop his wife from coming back and starting everything over again.

Just make a new one in some other canvas.
I for one would make a canvas that's just all Lune's in harem clothing.
Maybe one or two Sophie's for variety.

I think painting seems to have some genuine magical addictive qualities to it, not just "its fun" but implying that the longer you do it the less you are willing to stop chemically in your mind.

How many of you faggots wank off to retarded hentai where nothing good happens? You cunts already not just do that, but revel in it.

Why was Maelle so casual about Verso admitting to letting Gustave die?
"Thank you for being honest with me" she says. And then the game says they now have an unbreakable bond.
Which is funny considering the ending. Even the gamemaster is lying.

"You won't yet understand. But this is a kindness, not a cruelty"

Terrible analogy and you know it. Comparing a video game screen to a living breathing full scale world with all of your senses. Canvases are literally akin to black holes that spit you out onto a random planet in the real universe.

Why do the french have such a hard on for tragedy? Like this kind of shit, that Aline trying to soothe her grief just ruined things even more.

I like the idea of it, but it wouldn't be much fun destroying everything you come into contact with like the giga chad you are.

the fuck did he mean by that

You cunts already not just do that, but revel in it.

Lune and Sciel's relationships are away from Alicia and they divulge information to Verso only. Unless they repeat all of this to Alicia off screen or she is spying but that would have to be shown.

Alicia is LARPing as Maelle in act 3.

Because by that point she is a Paintress. She doesn't see them as people on an equal level as her anymore. Just dolls or playthings she's attached to and can lord over. She's a goddess, she'll just bring him back.

Life is about maximizing your own personal fun

That's called hedonism and an absolute metric fuckton of people would severely disagree with you, but we're not here to have a literal argument about what the meaning of life actually is, other than to say no, using the canvas is not "a life," and yes, it is definitely "less real" than ACTUAL reality. The canvas is nothing more than a super advanced glorified artificial simulation. Strapping someone into VR forever is not a way to "live."

jfc
if i told one of my friends that, if i had to choose between them dying and my mom dying, i'd save my mom.
they probably wouldn't ding me for it and agree they'd let me die too.
we'd still be friends, and it wouldn't be weird

I feel so satisfied bros :)

Me too :)

autistic anons accidentally play through the entire clair obscur expedition 33 game instead of watching a black mirror episode

MANY such cases

See a video of someone playing the game

Anytime Lune and Sciel interact they start going on about how gay they are for each other

???

maelle (not alicia, fuck her) deserved better

She loves Verso that much. She knows it's not her real brother but he is the closest thing, and she loves him even as his own person. She doesn't blame him for Gustave's death, and at that point they are all united in the goal of bringing them back anyway.

i don't know, maybe killing people who were never meant to exist, they are only there to soothe a woman's pain
that's why it's kindness

Considering Verso was worried about Maelle vs Renoir causing "another Fracture" in a world where everyone and everything was already dead, we can probably attribute SoulVerso *having* to paint (and getting tired about doing so) to Aline v Renoir Round 1 fucked things up, rather than just a necessary part of how Paintings work.

If the Dessendres were capable of leaving the world alone (or popping in, fixing shit and bouncing), then yeah, SoulVerso would probably have a pretty chill eternity watching the Gestrals, Esquie and Lumiere flourishing by themselves.

It is a life. The canvas is another planet, not some fantasy realm. Your contributions to a canvas world as just as valid as real world contributions. Even more so because you have superpowers as a painter to help their civilizations thrive. Your whole argument stems from them being fake which the game and devs have said isn't true.

She did. If Alicia wasn't mentally ill, she should repaint all of Lumiere, including Maelle and then leave it be. That's the good ending.

AND painted alicia also deserved much better

Aline?

Yes?

Did you really need to lock me up beneath the earth in complete darkness for 67 years?

Did you have to imprison me at the top of the monolith while you committed genocide year after year?

Let's let bygones be bygones and go out for croissants as a family

I hate modern audiences for this shit. They feel the need to ship everyone, especially women with other women even when it makes no sense.
I saw people doing that shit for fucking Tifa and Aerith when the scene is just the two of them talking about doing make up and shit to impress boys and people act like they're "soooooo gay for each other".

Wasn't the problem of being killed by nevrons just that the chroma was stale?

It was said old and impure. Based on Maelle not saying "oh no all the other people died to long ago" and just saying she can bring them back, and that she does bring them back, I'm thinking the specific nevron chroma trapping process and "impure" have a lot more weight than "old". Sciel even specifically says she would not want to create a copy of Pierre that wasn't the original (AFTER she was brought back), but he is back at the end.

I felt the Painter's eyes thing was a pretty clear indication personally

People say "that's them using their powers", but we're only shown that 3 other times. Once on Aline/Renoir who have been in the canvas for >100/51 years. Once on Clea who is leaving the canvas after ~30 years. And once in the eye of Maelle right as she enters the canvas. It seems more like it's something that spreads on your face the longer your are in the canvas, and in the canvas I'm guessing it eventually turns you into what Aline/Curator looked like where your face crumbles away.
I think that in that scene Verso is seeing that Maelle is dying, but he can't do anything to stop her, so he just plays the piano since all he can do is make her happy in that way.
Also, there's a very distinct sound and something catches Verso's eye in that scene. I think he's either seeing her face crumbling, or it's the white dots of light floating around, which might represent embers due to the canvas being burned IRL after the family saw that Maelle was beginning to die.

Aren't they more like a combined entity at that point?
Thats a good explanation I can get behind.
Why was Gustave dying essential to saving the mom again? To motivate Maelle more or something? That too seemed like a pretty dumb contrivance.

If there's anything I despise, it's how much women put on a reaction for this game. They don't give a shit at all. The men who seem like they're barely paying attention care more about the cutscenes than the women do, who seem to care more about how reaction is perceived, rather than attempting to understand the story.

Gustave is literally beckoning her to join him

No he's not

He sure as fuck isn't waving.

Probably because Verso would have killed him if he didn't.

Renoir, painted or otherwise did nothing wrong.

Aren't they more like a combined entity at that point?

I thought this initially, but the more I play the side-content, the more it seems like it's 100% just Alicia.

I haven't noticed anyone mention the motes of light in Maelle's ending that Verso seems to be distracted by, or the very small sound effect that plays right as he looks up from the piano. Can anyone identify what it is?

youtu.be/9HsMVig_B_A?t=1383

No they aren't. Again: you die outside the canvas, you die inside, because that's your real body, where your real soul exists. You are not walking from one universe into another, you are projecting your consciousness into a fictional world that YOU CREATED and that cannot harm you and can bend to your will (predicated on skill/power). They are not literally akin to it.

Can I now throw your first sentence back in your face?

Luality is the worst for this. Why does she talk like an unironic retarded toddler? Like im not exaggerating. And she will randomly get up and dance during cutscenes.

Isn't there some line that actually implies Lune and Sciel were in a short relationship a while back though?

Gustave is autistic, this is known from how he acts, and why are love him.
He probably barely knows the difference. It would be in character for him to fumble his dramatic farewell.

Gustave is autistic

If this is your final take, he might not be the only one.

Why was Gustave dying essential to saving the mom again? To motivate Maelle more or something? That too seemed like a pretty dumb contrivance.

Verso could've saved him but decided not to. He figured she'd be easier to manipulate that way. He knows how much she trusts and listens to Gustave so him being out of the picture made things more convenient for him. Maybe he didn't need to do that at all but Verso didn't care.

Embers of the burning canvas after the family sees Maelle start to die IRL and lights that shit up last resort.

I don't remember. Honestly I just see that shit so much it bugs the shit out of me anytime I see it.
Like how someone using the word Hella annoys the fuck out of me since that cunt in Life is Strange kept spouting it and I fucking hated her. It's just the association at this point.

just Alicia

Brings back all the Lumerians but sends Verso to the piano mines

I was joking anon. But he's for sure awkward and the idea of him fumbling the dramatic final goodbye is really funny to me.
Also the idea he's the MC and if he survived would have bullshitted out a happy ending.

he wasn't waving or beckoning, he was dead
Maelle was imagining Gustav doing something, but I don't think the Gustav in her head would be beckoning her towards death

Death might be a stretch but he is 100% beckoning there

irl Alicia in the canvas is Maelle. Canvas Alicia is painted by Aline.

So no, you were wrong, retard.

Which should be an absolutely bullshit explanation to Maelle if she is still the Maelle we know at that point.
"I let your brother die so I can manipulate you more." - "Thanks for the honesty :)"
Must be that she just thinks of bringing Gustave back and that death doesn't mean that much anymore.

Gustave is literally beckoning her to join him (in death)

That is not at all in character for the guy who keeps repeating about "those who come after" and cared deeply for Maelle.

Astral projecting yourself to another location with magic is still 'you' and the location itself is still real.

It's Maelle's delusions. It's a metaphor for how she is about to kill herself

Its a good thing in reality he admitted that he couldn't risk anything preventing him from saving his Mother, which Alicia could understand and empathize with given it was her mother too

If I was dumb enough to misinterpret those literal words as the dogshit you're claiming I'd think Verso was bad too

It's OK Verso is going to help bring Gustave back

I don't think Maelle could imagine Gustave, the man who was part big brother part father figure to her for 16 years wanting her to kill herself in any way.

I think Alicia did about as well as a kid could be expected to in the end. You can really see it in her eyes when she is speaking to Renoir, she has just lost too much for someone her age and mental state to be able to deal with. I really think something like losing Gustave was the last straw and there was no coming back from it, Maelle is dejected and dead inside for almost the rest of her existence after that, and it stayed with Alicia after she went back in with Maelle's memories.

My interpretation is that it's more a temptation to paint a new Gustave and do what Aline did with her painted family.

It is a life.

Not for the painters it isn't. See: I'm not talking about how the people in the canvas feel about "their reality." We're talking about Alicia being within the canvas as a "real world." It isn't. There is zero difference between what the painters do and the construction of an extremely advanced virtual reality with artificial sentience.

To be "as real" as actual reality, there would need to be equivalent stakes, meaning your body and soul would need to be transported there, you could get really hurt or die there, you cannot simply bend "reality" to your will. Notice that there are no actual stakes of entering the canvas aside from the psychological and physical damage occurring to the painter's body and mind in the REAL world which the game makes clear several times.

Why the fuck does Gustave need to die to help bring the mom back is still the most pressing question.
Why are Lune and Sciel not obstacles as well? Gustave was kinda autistic and almost killed himself 5 hours into the expedition. The fuck was he going to do?

she has just lost too much for someone her age

I don't think age matters much with how much she lost. 16 years of gommages, the expedition, Gustave, everyone else in Lumiere, and then recovering the memories of losing Verso.

Is there anything painted man says to the rest of the party that he doesn't later go back on? I don't even care if this guy has a point he should suffer for the sheer amount of dishonest scumbaggery.

What if he wasn't beckoning towards himself, but in his direction? He's not saying "Come with me as I disappear from existence.", he's saying "Move forward from that place of mourning."

You have to remember that Maelle is now Alicia as well. So she has 16 years of memories of Verso as her brother as well. And no doubt she acquired the sociopathic tendencies the Painters have as well.

oh you killed one of my favourite painted people come on that's not cool

yeah I know haha I was trolling, don't worry we'll just paint him again

haha yeah alright, thanks for telling me at least, I wondered what happened to him

Yeah, growing up for 16 years there without memories fucked her up beyond redemption. she developed an attachment that’s impossible to just let go.

We've seen a previous expedition get fooled into attacking Renoir and thus ensuring the death of Aline. Luckily they failed.
Fearing that the smartest man in Lumiere could come to the same conclusion is reasonable

See, I interpreted Aline retreating into the painting more like the metaphysical equivalent of running into the bathroom, locking the door, and refusing to listen/engage.

Renoir had to follow Aline into the painting because she was NOT coming out, and there was no other way to communicate with her. Once she WAS out, he could have followed her and tried to convince her not to return. Instead, Renoir being Renoir, he had to be *sure* she couldn't run back after they talked. At any cost.

And he would do the same with Alicia. Even when he whole party tries to convince him to just let the canvas be, he says "you speak truth, and it changes nothing." He isn't the type of man who would risk the existence of the canvas, even after the fight and Maelle convincing him to let her stay.

Because rationally, he succeeded in booting Aline out. If he hopped back to reality and she still went back, he could just follow her and team up with Maelle, Verso and co to boot her out again. The fact he didn't consider that an option meant he would never consider any alternative than erasing the canvas the moment both Aline and Alicia were out.

Or, at the very least, there's enough evidence to justify Maelle's conviction that there is no way she can "just leave and come back".

Which also sets up her addiction to power implied in her ending - while she would be powerless to stop Renoir IRL, she can stop him in the canvas. Here she is powerful, out there she is not. And so, either by delusion, logic, or a combination of the two, there is no convincing her of another path.

Honestly you can read it either way, and it's why I *love* what they did with this endlessly subjective ending

No, I wasn't wrong, the post I responded to literally said

Alicia irl is Maelle

I was responding to this weird phrasing, "Alicia in real life is Maelle" is saying that Maelle is the real life version of her. It should have been written "Maelle is Alician in real life." Maelle is the in-canvas version.

Maybe the first post's intent wasn't what I thought, but I definitely wasn't claiming that Maelle was the real one.

Painted man words of wisdom, Maelle should make her own choices

any thread of Maellechads winning again

Kek. Gotcha.

I just can'r remember the timeline of it: I maxed their relationships, but can't recall when I did it, or what specifically got divulged. Like the information you get from Sciel after Act III are that she tried to kill herself by swimming out to the ocean, that she had a miscarriage because of it, and that she used to be a farmer but became a teacher. Which Verso didn't know before, sure. But Maelle grew up in Lumiere so may have already known all of that information. Same with Lune: we learn her parents apprenticed her at a young age, she felt pressured to beat the Paintress, and she liked music. But again, Maelle probably already knew all that from living in Lumiere.

And once in the eye of Maelle right as she enters the canvas. It seems more like it's something that spreads on your face the longer your are in the canvas, and in the canvas I'm guessing it eventually turns you into what Aline/Curator looked like where your face crumbles away.

So when we see it, it's when people are either actively using their powers to be in the canvas, or are using or just finished using their powers to enter or leave the canvas. And if it appeared on you the longer you're in it, why would it appear on the three people in the real world, or on Alicia as she just enters the canvas?

Why the heavy breathing then, why not some sort of resigned sigh? Why did they swap from color to grey-scale, which is often associated with horror as opposed to a cool color for sadness? Why the discordant, jarring piano notes when we see her with her painter's eyes, as opposed to something somber? The whole tone of those shots seems to indicate something is -wrong- to me, not that Verso is sad.

I feel it also kind of glosses over the "I don't want this life. I don't want this life." from the immediately prior scene. No one in Lumiere seems that much older, the apprentices are still kids. It can't have been that long, but he's over wanting to die and just playing the piano?

Wait so if the Visages Axon relates to Verso, then who is Sirine?

there is no argument to be had
(You) completely missed the point of thr endings

Simply it's magic you retards

Immature Verso edgelords lost again

>Renoir had to follow Aline into the painting because she was NOT coming out, and there was no other way to communicate with her. Once she WAS out, he could have followed her and tried to convince her not to return. Instead, Renoir being Renoir, he had to be *sure* she couldn't run back after they talked. At any cost.

Agreed. Renoir had to go in to talk to Aline, and that conversation caused the Fracture and their subsequent imprisonments.
But the control part still stands, and there's every reason for Renoir to expect a situation where he leaves the painting, goes to find his wife, and searches the house for a bit before finding her back in the fucking painting. Then all his work is wasted and he needs to try again, but they're both weakened and risking death.
Same with Alicia, but again he's weakened and it would take a lot of time.
Without the war going on I'm sure he'd be willing to go along and be reasonable, but Clea can't handle things on her own forever and I'm pretty sure that he'd be fucked if someone attacked the house while everyone was in the painting.

So I think we're pretty much aligned outside of

The fact he didn't consider that an option meant he would never consider any alternative than erasing the canvas the moment both Aline and Alicia were out.

He wanted to, but had to weigh it against his responsibilities.
And he wasn't really wrong - Aline came back fairly shortly (compared to 67ish years in previously) and Maelle was definitely lying about coming out soon.

Renoir is on a time limit to evict Maelle from the canvas before Aline comes back and settles in again. Aline is by far the superior painter, and is only able to be removed from the canvas due to being severely weakened from overstaying, having to contend directly with Renoir, indirectly with Clea, and also with herself via her painted humans.

Due to the passage of time being different it's possible the duration of a conversation in the real world would be enough for her to regain enough power to seize overwhelming control of the canvas, especially without Clea around this time.

Just to throw a wrinkle into you two's debate: time is clearly fucky between the real world and the canvas.

During the IRL segment, their 51 years in the canvas looked like the better part of an afternoon. Renoir and Aline were standing in the atelier, Clea is bored but not concerned about them being in there that long, and nothing indicates THAT much time had passed.

Granted, we don't know if people in that reality age over millennia or whatever, but it seemed more like time in-canvas passed much slower than time IRL. Which also ties into the Inception style "if you get lost in a dream you die IRL!" logic.

So sure, you die outside the canvas, you die inside it. But either way, you spend a life's worth of time in one world or another.

the only thing I lost are the 10 seconds it took to make this post

Autists dont understand magic. They think its a computer lol

Aline. There's a reason why she makes you see what you want to see the most after you're mesmerized.

Wasn't that supposed to be Aline? The one who can tempt you and show you whatever you want? It feels like Aline tried to convince Renoir to join her in seeing his son, by showing him the painted Verso in the canvas.

Verso, Aline, and Alicia all get mega-power Axons created to show and teach them their faults

Clea doesn't need an Axon

based

rad

The one in old Lumiere is her's. Hauler shoulders the weight of the world. Simon killed it, though.

So when we see it, it's when people are either actively using their powers to be in the canvas, or are using or just finished using their powers to enter or leave the canvas.

We see it on people in the canvas, and more spread the longer they are in the canvas.

And if it appeared on you the longer you're in it, why would it appear on the three people in the real world, or on Alicia as she just enters the canvas?

It's very spread on the faces of people IRL who have been in there a long time, while their in-canvas counterparts have a completely collapsed face.
For Alicia when she goes in the canvas, it is ONLY in her left eye, not spread across the face. So the fact that it is now all over her face shows it has spread over time, and likely will progress to curator collapsed face.

Why the heavy breathing then

To make the silence more pronouced. You can also hear clothes rustling in the audience and a light static.

The whole tone of those shots seems to indicate something is -wrong- to me, not that Verso is sad.

Something is wrong, Maelle is dying. Also the canvas might be burning.

I feel it also kind of glosses over the "I don't want this life. I don't want this life." from the immediately prior scene.

Like Maelle said "if you could grow old, would you find happiness?". She made him mortal, hoping that he would find happiness in a normal life (and hopefully when he passes naturally that will help resolve her grief). By the fact that he hasn't just offed himself, it's probably helping a bit, but he might just be resigned at this point.

No one in Lumiere seems that much older, the apprentices are still kids.

Yeah idk about the timeline. She might have just aged him up, or maybe she made Lune and Sciel immortal like Verso was while they worked on restoring Lumiere and that took a long time.

The whole thing is supposed to be inconclusive and vague, so it's hard to actually draw real conclusions.