What went wrong with competitive TF2?

What went wrong with competitive TF2?

people pretending like it shoud've been anything other than 6's for a hyper autistic minority

Heads up:
The rest of this thread will be people with extreme opinions on a game they've never played before (6's comp TF2)

Be gay retards that nobody likes so much you have to standardize your format designed around half empty servers

Spend the entire lifespan of the game hissing and moaning about how Valve needs to drop everything about how the game works and redesign it around your broken format (This would be like the VSH devs demanding Valve make changes to the game beyond allowing the health indicator to display values above 999 properly)

Finally after 7 years manage to dupe enough Valve developers to "rebalance" (ruin everything you get clowned on in public games by) weapons and add a competitive mode

It is so fucking poorly received and pissed off everyone that for 9 fucking years (and counting) you scream at everyone you had nothing to do with the DEDICATED FUCKING COMPETITIVE update and most of the developers bail on the game (but all the balance changes you asked for were good even though everyone thinks it's fucking retarded that the sandman serves ZERO purpose)

It being a thing that exists.

Competitive e-sports was always an organic offshoot of the vanilla public experience with smaller team sizes or a focus on dueling in games that provided it. This is how it should be, and this is how you get new lifeblood into the competitive scene. By trying to "bridge the gap" between vanilla and comp by forcing vanilla into comp and not the other way around, what you end up doing is making the public experience less fun, especially for those who are new to TF2. You need noobs to enjoy the game because those noobs might end up getting good at the game and also enjoy the metagame of 6s enough to join a team in the future. No one would say that TF2 is currently experiencing the golden age of its competitive scene, despite all the efforts Valve undertook to cater to them. Yes, Meet Your Match was also broken in ways that competitive players never asked for, and the Competitive Mode itself was, and is, unplayable for a number of reasons, but even if it wasn't a total disaster, people's lack of interest in 6s would cause the mode to die.

Most people don't enjoy competitive TF2 because the metagame that is 6s is fundamentally not as fun as vanilla TF2. You can be the biggest tryhard and still enjoy pubs way more because they're 12 vs 12, and therefore employ more gamemodes (Payload, Attack/Defend, etc), maps, and regular classes than 6s. Competitive Mode should've been nothing more than Day 1 Casual Mode - 12 vs 12, stopwatch mode for real winners and losers, leaving early is punished, maybe some rewards for winning, and a rank system. Real TF2 Competitive would've remained a community effort with international LAN tournaments, ladders, etc. Pubs should've been left alone as is. Quickplay from 2014-2016 was the greatest system ever devised in multiplayer FPS history, and perfect for TF2 pubs. If you're going to "bridge the gap", you need an official Comp mode that takes after pubs, not the other way around.

Quickplay was just a shitty server browser

was always an organic

Already wrong

Which is why it was great, because it gave noobs an accessible version of the server browser dedicated to official Valve servers by default, without the need for matchmaking.

too early, and when valve added MyM it was too late
also the community is pretty retarded

comptrannies did irreparable damage to TF2

Back in the day, not now of course. In the late 90s and 2000s, games were designed around the traditional, public experience, not 5 vs 5 or 6 vs 6 with matchmaking. They were organic efforts from the community, people made clans, hosted their own websites, competed against each other on private servers with their own server configurations and rules. It wasn't something developers built their games around beyond patching in a new console command or highlighting an upcoming tournament.

It amazes me that uncle groomer still denies any fault for shilling comp and gutting quickplay to this very day.

Autists play 6s because it's most fun for tryhards with thousands of hours in the game. They also ban some weapons because it's not fun to play against those weapons. Valve stepping in has nothing to do with those autists.

The autists also have their own community and friends. What do you have? Why did you stop playing the game? Why is everything someone elses fault but yours?

TF2 is designed for long stalemates, turtling, and big offensive pushes. Trying to play it as a fast paced arena shooter is just antithetical to the core of what makes the game fun and will always be a joke.

Real tryhards don't whine about a Heavy being able to get to mid, they adapt. Compfags are failed tryhards.

I think that what you're trying to say that it is only fun for you when everyone sucks.

Correction: compfags don't actually like TF2

They want to have fun. Not to compete who plays the most broken loadout like the 2 second sandman disarm. People with many hours in these games do not enjoy playing as or against the heavy even if he was viable.

people don't like it, but the 6v6 soldier/scout/medic/demo 5cp meta happened naturally after many different early iterations of competitive TF2.
6v6 is because larger matches are a nightmare to organize. The 4 main classes because they're always strong and fast. 5cp because it provides interesting back-and-forths where both teams can go from pushing to defending in a matter of seconds.

these rulesets didn't appear out of thin air. Just consider early comp TF2 that was 12v12 with everyone playing Demoman and Medic with old Stickybomb damage ramp-up and explosion radius, random damage spread and random crits.

trying to make a game that was designed for 32 players into a format designed for 12

Sandman

Broken

I have 7000 hours and I enjoy playing against Heavy, Sniper, Engineer, Pyro, and everything else. I don't get this "it's unfun" opinion. except vaccinator fuck that piece of shit

It's against trannies and that's bad in today's society

Do you play with other good players or do you play in public lobbies? Playing 6v6 without restrictions just makes the game less fun and interesting for everyone involved. That's why they made those rules. Not because they want to have bad time.

And before you say something about the game not being designed around 6v6, well you played 9v9 highlander then? As it turns out it is less fun than 6v6 because there are many classes who do not really get to do much in an environment where everyone is experienced.

What went wrong with competitive TF2?

current year

demo's stock gl still has random deviation

fucking lmao

Highlander is a retarded format because the game is designed around 12 people making it at a floor mandatory that there's more than 1 of any class running around.
Not to mention Engineer blowing fat cock on offense and other classes blowing fat cock on Defense.
Faggot retard astroturfed shit by a demographic marginally more likely to have video production skills.

Yes but this was about competitive TF2? Why does it make you so upset that there are people with their own community and rules that make the game most engaging for them?

They are niggers who never be given any quarter. They fucked the whole of TF2 up by trying to impose their autism onto the base game.

the reflect hitbox is as big as a fucking house.

a scout that knows how to actually play the class is an absolute nightmare to fight against, valve severely underestimated just how much of a monster he is even with just full stock items, now give him the ability to take your gun away with the fastest projectile in the game at no significant tradeoff to himself (the max hp reduction doesn't hit significant breakpoints for killing the scout)
then remember that this abomination used to stun ubered players
it's not a mystery why community whitelists generally keep scout away from his secondary/melee weapons that otherwise would be auto-pick choices due to there being no realistic competition to the scattergun sitting in his primary slot.
Hell, just play MvM for a little bit and you'll understand why both Mad Milk and Jarate are restricted, the advantage they give the team is basically an auto-win unless both teams do the same thing, then it just becomes a matter of who landed a better jar.

It's that big if you decided the fire the rocket from such a distance that you gave pyro more than enough time to react. Fire a shot when closer to him and the effective hitbox becomes the distance between the pyro and the attacker, which can be as small as you need it.

In the end that's an extremely disingenuous image, little point of reference to give it context. It would be more convincing to post an actual gameplay clip showing how generous the reflects are. You don't tend to see that though because it either becomes obvious that the soldier fed him an easy rocket or it becomes obvious that you do actually need to react to some extent on the rockets that weren't being fed. A reaction that again becomes far harder with ping.

this image has been obsolete since the 64-bit update.
while the hitbox itself is that large, there's a conical check that's actually where you'd expect the airblast to be. turns out that doing collision checks with a big fucking box is a lot more computationally efficient than doing comparisons against a cone that could be pointed in any direction in 3D space

You don't play the game if you think that reflects are done only on visual reaction and can't be performed on melee range with luck + intuition.

Yes they're done both ways.

formula pretty well set

one medic

one demoman

two sollies

rest float among scout, heavy, engy, or sometimes even sniper according to current need

anything else gets curbstomped, as it should be

same thing that happens with every game that competitive is shoehorned into

small subset of community demands special attention

company sinks time, money and other resources into it to appeal to small subset thinking it'll bring in the majority somehow

further distinguishes the small subset from the casual masses

casuals are now having their fun shit modified and balanced around mode they weren't participating in before and don't give a shit about now

casuals who were interested in competitive are chewed up and spit out by the sweaty retards who made the game competitive in the first place and expect S+ ranked players and decision making that won't just come naturally to casuals

casual matchmaking now filled with toxic assholes who can't hang in the provided competitive game mode but are too competitive for casual play

while the hitbox itself is that large, there's a conical check that's actually where you'd expect the airblast to be

that's for pushing players away not projectiles

Fire a shot when closer to him and the effective hitbox becomes the distance between the pyro and the attacker, which can be as small as you need it.

at which point you are just guessing regardless of ping. good soldiers know this and will get as close as possible knowing it's impossible to reflect on reaction at that range.

t. 8.5k hours

cat picture

Let me guess, Medic main?

soldier doesnt deserve to be on the same tier as demo

cat schizo shouldn't you be posting gore on Anon Babble right now?

Wow, called it. What a shocker. Shouldn't you be taking your meds right now? It's what your main would want to keep you from barking at shadows.

Not entirely guessing. You might be looking for tells of when the soldier will shoot. Tells that you will suffer for if you're receiving them on a significant delay, and suffer all the more if the server is in turn receiving your m2 input on a delay as well.

it was a community alternative mode they gaslighted themselves into thinking could work as something official despite the fact it went against the core of tf2s gameplay design not helped by the fact valve made multiple retarded decisions with them

if they added drops at the end of the match like mvm it would've been bigger than casual.

just wanted to add

previously casual gamemode that you were allowed to be a casual even with sweaty players curbstomping now has those players complaining you aren't subscribed to their hyper optimized idea of how the game should be played

giving competitive players justification and an echo chamber to be shitty to people having fun casually ruined competitive games, not just TF2.

Is he still hitting them pills?

dude just run head first into a pyro

You have braindamage

Imagine taking TF2 seriously. If you want a competitive Valve game, go play CS. HL Death Match and TF2 have and always will be for dumb fun and goofing off.

go play CS

no

listening to compfags

Wasn't intended to ever be a competitive game.

It is so fucking poorly received and pissed off everyone that for 9 fucking years (and counting) you scream at everyone you had nothing to do with the DEDICATED FUCKING COMPETITIVE update

This is what pisses me off the most. They'll bitch and fucking moan that meet your match "ruined competitive" WHEN THEY WERE THE ONES THAT WANTED MATCHMAKING IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF VALVE FUCKED UP THE DELIVERY WHEN YOU WERE STILL THE ONES INVITING THEM TO FUCK AROUND WITH THE PROCESS

you deserve a crocket for typing that

literally every game gets played at a "serious" level because you will never be able to sap away the desire to compete, the strive to be better than someone else at whatever menial or meaningless task ever.
the game itself is already a competition between 2 teams. the only restriction is any houserules you set, such as which map, mode, how many players, which classes, and so on.
people will 1v1 in MGE for hours at a time just to see who can win a FT20 the most times in a row. at it's core, TF2 is a videogame and a fairly well-designed one at that, and that means someone can be better than someone else. Competition is built in. it doesn't matter how silly the game is or how nonexistent the stakes are, as long as there are 2 people playing the game, someone's gonna want to prove that they're better than the other.

comp players are the reason the bison was nerfed

do you even listen to yourself? they never even thought it was average. bison memes originated in MvM for fucks sake

SA-LUTE!

MyM was legit so fucking bad that i sold all of my items and stopped playing the game for years. nowadays I only play mann vs machine tours on Christmas time because it is the only resemblance of the time i used to enjoy this game.

all but the most popular community servers died after meet your match

this is because people relied on quickplay to access these servers

imagine being so retarded that you get filtered by the fucking server browser.

I figured this shit out when I was 10. WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING TO PEOPLE? HOW CAN PEOPLE BE THIS DUMB?

Most PC gamers throughout the last decade are honorary consolefags.

Imagine having trouble with who is acknowledged to be one of the worst classes in the game.