How do we fix MMORPGs?

Make everything harder and more bullshit

That just forces players to lean on optimization guides even more.

this was one of my biggest issues with wow
i was late to the party and never played the old expansions, but i thought it was extremely lame that everyone, at least in my guild, was pretty much expected to watch a bunch of guides and memorize every boss mechanic before even setting foot into a raid
i understand that there's 25 people and we don't want to waste time accomplishing nothing on the one raid night of the week but it was lame as fuck just going through the motions instead of figuring it out together

I had fun as a NEET playing with NEETs though, I even found an e-gf who would eventually move in with me and become my wife.
Nowadays MMOs are full of normies who come in with their premade parties and don't interact with anyone outside their Discord circlejerk voice channel.

Normal people who know how to communicate left MMOs with zero intention of ever coming back. Online multiplayer is common and social media is everywhere.

It has nothing to do with how the games are designed and everything to do with your age. When you are young you just feel more a sense of wonder. When I played Runescape as a kid in middle school I remember I really felt so much wonder at the world, like I would just stop and imagine about stuff going on in Lumbridge, Varrock. But that's because I was younger, when you get older you just don't do that as much, it doesn't matter if you design the games differently or try to "slow it down" to make players feel it again. You can't be young again, you can't recapture that child like imagination when you just stopped at wondered at things in the game world. Well, maybe you can sometimes, but not to the same degree.

I know it sounds hard to believe but when young kids play games today they probably experience similar feelings, even in other genres. Like when young kids played Minecraft or even Fortnite they also felt that sense of wonder and were immersed in the world and imagined scenarios in their head of what the world is like. It's just age.

You can't go back.
The "optimized fun" has ruined the genre forever.

Its because most MMOs are designed in a shitty way.
If you want a MMO that has actual exploration and almost every piece of content is relevant play GW2.

Its the only MMO i played that is 10 years old and yet somehow people still do older content and i often find people doing large scale events in open world map.

How would you go about doing that nowadays?

Endgame should be overworld stuff, fuck the instanced bullshit. You have MMO where thousands of people could be online in the same world, and yet you deliberately choose to shoehorn everyone into tiny 4-10 people limited instances? You should burn in hell.

party finder has ruined MMOs beyond repair. when people had to look for groups in all-, region- and trading-chat, it wasn't a problem when one or two guys in your group did not understand the boss mechanics. just give them some bullet points in chat or tell them in teamspeak (wealthy version). it was just better to wipe once and explain the mechanics and maybe take 10min longer. now retards - especially tanks and healers with low/no queue time - just instantly leave the group when it is not a 100% optimised optimised, no talk, grind run without mistakes.
And even if we just get rid of party finder now, there will be some autistic plugin or whatever to replace it. And even if that should not come to fruition, I doubt there is anything that can fix the optimization brainrot that has plagued these games for over a decade.

There are two ways of doing it: increase mechanical/immersion/technical depth so even if you are a grizzled veteran you would feel like a newbie.
Or make a game for minmaxing elitists - difficult, convoluted, polished out, high skill ceiling, lots of stuff to do. And players should have more power, enough power to cause global impacts or even affect people outside of the game.
Modern MMO players have jobs, careers and families. I play in a guild with minmaxers and parsers, and only handful of us are neets.

Party finder or not, we're never going back to the past. Everyone will just stick to their discords and it will be just as fragmented as it is now. MMOs were designed for an age without social media, the advent of social media killed them. Only something like VRMMOs could possibly invigorate the genre, but we're like 50 years away from anything close to that tech, and that's if it even advances.

Built in randomizer so wiki is mostly useless.
Can even use AI to make it a sort of controlled randomness so you can't just stumble into the best equipment at the start.

Ragnarok Online

randomizer

Yeah man just what we need, more rogueshit.

AI

You don't need AI for that, you goddamn retard.

For me, it's Erenshor the single-player simulated MMO. (Think SP Everquest).
And of course Guild Wars where all content is soloable with AI members whom you can customize. People are still playing regularly and the 20th anniversary is next month.

The only thing that can save MMOs is unironically the removal of the M for multiplayer. The entire reason these games are shit and can never work is because it's online. Other people ruin the game for everyone else. Dataminers, gold farmers, minmaxers, griefers, troons who run to admins, guilds destroyed by women and their simps, everything is solved. Once everything is solved the playerbase demands to make the game easier because they are tired of wasting their time so you get things like dungeon finder and now you get kicked from dungeons if you play sub-optimally.

You fix this by making a single player MMO populated only by AI and maybe you can let in a small group of friends. Content is changed in every version. No wikis, no guides, just you alone or with a few friends exploring a world just for you. Maybe if there is demand you could then let people leave their single player world and go join other players in some capacity to hang out or do PvP, but the main game needs to be single player.
This is the only way forward for MMOs.

Hide the numbers.
Like no hp/mana bars or anything either.
Remove everything that can be used to "solve" the game builds.
Remove all conformist bullshit like instance matchmaking, automated shops, fast travel, magical disapearing and appearing out of nowhere mounts, etc.
Make all guilds, factions, parties, interactions, etc. unofficial.

I'm just spitballing ideas. Using generative AI to make mostly unique experiences that still have sensible design is how I see devs getting around wikis

Make it so you have to actually talk to the people around you for basic progression

Again, you can do that without AI.

You're just angry I said AI

Literally just ban China/India.

I don't fully agree with that. There are downsides to open world gameplay. Imagine there is an endgame boss that drops the best loot. And its expected time of respawn is one week. When it's respawn day, a clan of high-level pvpers comes to its lair and guards it for 6 hours straight. And I will ask you: would you prefer to be on the side of these elite knights in shining armor? You would have to stay there for six hours doing nothing, and you can't leave. You will do that many times a year and would never get a single item from the boss. Sometimes you would lose and be defeated, and all these hours would be wasted. Or do you prefer to be on another side and never be allowed to experience the fight even once in your life?
Do you really think this is good gameplay?
Again, party finder is just a tool, it's people it's the tanks who you say "just instantly leave the group" who are at fault. But you have to understand: once you experience the same pain as them, once you go through 500 groups that have no clue on the mechanics and wipe you over and over, you will give up too and be like this guy.

I'm angry that you're a fucking retard. The solution to this 'problem' already exists, you just want to shove the hot new thing in there because its the hot new thing. Exactly the sort of retarded mindset that's prevalent with investors and the like.

Furthermore, this isn't a real issue. No one is forcing you to use a wiki. You are choosing to use it. Why should developers go through the additional trouble to 'wiki-proof' their games when its entirely on you whether you use a wiki or not?

Why should developers go through the additional trouble to 'wiki-proof' their games when its entirely on you whether you use a wiki or not?

Because that's the point of the thread, of the question in the OP? Did you even read what was being discussed and got blindly angry at seeing the A and the I together?

why did this fag make a comic about wow
but draw it as if it where FF XI?
he didn't play MMOs

If you hide the numbers, shitters will go unpunished or there will be some ways (graphic parsers or chat parsers) that can determine if Gary does 120 dps instead of 4000. Skilled people will not play that game, it will be like a shitter haven where they wipe over and over. This will cause further separation of playerbase, small discord groups will completely dominate the game, and if you want to be a "lone wolf" like the majority of the MMO playerbase now, you will not move anywhere.

wagies & normalfags are unironically worse in the MMO space
some of them go hard into optimising way above what a neet can do, some of them want non content
neets who can no life balance it all out, by being able to do a bit of grinding, or doing 20 pulls in normal content without having a meltdown
a wagie or normalfag on the other hand will cry the instant anything at all goes wrong, worse, they'll cry before it can go wrong

they treat the game like such a job that the retards keep creating excel sheets and databases
they cannot escape wagedom, they are slaves
forever
and
ever
and always will be

you can take the man out of a job, you can't take the job out of a man, they're trained animals

Kill the theme park dungeons and raids. MMORPGs were never meant to be boss rush gauntlets.
Farming for hats in Ragnarok Online was way more fun than modern Simon Says Slop.

wagies & normalfags are unironically worse in the MMO space

i guess a lot has changed then. i remember people with stable lives and a job being the ones that weren't metafagging 24/7. they just wanted a chill place to hang out with other nerds and do some content after work.
then again, my experience with good MMOs was during a time, when average joes playing online were still nerds. normalfags had no reason to play an MMO and probably could not even install the game on a PC. i expect those fags flooded MMOs even more, once they released on consoles where there is absolutely no bar to entry other than money.

of the question in the OP?

The question in OP is not 'how to solve the wiki problem'. Its 'how do we fix MMORPGs'. The problem here is the stagnation of the genre, people have these games 'figured out' because the genre as a whole has calcified over the last 20 years. Throwing randomness/AI at this problem isn't a solution, its obfuscation at best. The fundamentals underneath it all haven't changed, you're just putting them under red cups and shuffling them around. If you really want to 'fix MMORPGs' in a way that gives players back a feeling of curiosity you need to completely break the existing mold for the genre.

'wiki-proof'

Make the entire game procedural.
Enemy and weapon stats and locations, aswell as world and dungeon layouts get generated at the start of each run.

hyperspecific scenario that could only happen with forced PvP

Then the problem is forced PvP, don't you think?
In the modern MMOs, people skip to endgame in the most optimal way possible, and guess what that endgame looks like? Doing hundreds of hours with same 3-4 retards in a party.
You could just be playing Diablo or other kino co-op with the buddies instead of this bullshit.
I want them to stop taking out "Massive Multiplayer" out of fucking MMOs.

how I used to play mmorpgs

how I play mmorpgs now

As your image implies, there is nothing to fix, it's you who changed.

You live in an age of the cash shop.
Where everything is parsed, discord exists, wikis exist, everything is known before a patch (for wow) everything is known <1 day after a patch (any other MMO), everyone will follow a guide.
Normalfags are a cancer upon the genre, because like it was said, they exist on a spectrum of 2 extremes, hyper-casuals who don't care about content or group content, because they'll never do it or have to group up with others/don't want to group up with others and the pay to win, must hyper optimise raiderfags madcuzbad.

If wagies worked say 15 hours a week and there was no pay to win, maybe, maybe you could have it your way, but they're still normalfags and they'd use that time elsewhere anyway.

block internet access from the entire third world

Why? Curiosity isn't optimal.

Time is shorter the older you get , getting immersed in exploration without following a concrete plan is just going to eat up to much of your limited free time

welp after dropping maplestory 2 7 years ago i haven't even thought about playing another mmo. hope you guys arent full of shit

>People nowadays are so braindead they read guides for games

A lot of MMOs necessitate this though because you're going to spend hundreds of hours on one character and if you fuck up a choice 10 minutes in when you know nothing about the game you just wasted all that time.

2 over 1

You will quickly go back to not playing MMOs.

we need chill music and chill ambience again. MMOs are meant to be a place where you can escape from your worries and reality by wasting your life away.

youtu.be/NfiaGTTKrvk?si=fiUt_TGgYibgjpJ1

i played the fuck out of maplestory 1 when i was a wee lad anon. i wanted to give the new game a try when Anon Babble was shilling it

Add another V to your name brother. It would have more soul.

vviper

lol. youll cowards dont even smoke crack i see

I think he means Guild Wars 1 anon

I actually explored the ARR areas expecting something, like an idiot retard, until I saw the writing on the wall in HW and just focused on the VN i mean the story and braindead cookie cutter content. Pretty game though.

Delete wiki and game guides

the problem for me was not only was there no mmo content in ffxiv, the story wasn't worth the bullshit warping around etc etc. I got like 200 hours in on Anon Babble's recommendations and it never clicked. Calling it a VN is generous, the writing and the story in general is much worse than the good VNs

Had a lot of fun with GW2. I only started burning out after over a decade of playing because I've done everything in the game countless times, but there's a ridiculous amount of content because each update doesn't kill all existing content.

I might put this on if I ever wish to experience the warm, comforting horrors of overdosing on opis.
but maybe just maybe
youtube.com/watch?v=UXLcYPWxfEM
I go out with a smile on my face

What MMO doesn't have a respec option?

also doubles as wiper, crack wiper

Gustaberg is another good one:

youtube.com/watch?v=YKyoXtKTxbg

oh i got the joke, made me laugh lol

Nowadays, probably not many, but in the past, a fucking lot.

I did mean GW1, anon.

make the gameplay actually good. i will not play a mmo of which gameplay consists of taking turns kicking shins and the player with bigger number on their shins winning.

gigantic beestung mega jaw

chin smaller and shorter than the tip of her nose

Why do Asians find this attractive?

hide the numbers

numbers add-on pops up and becomes default for raiding

that's alright. i'm not looking for something to live in really, i have other games to scratch that itch for me.
a game for when i feel like doing something social adjacent is really all im looking for.

I think ESO was a step in the right direction, at least the bits I played. The world is so filled with collectibles that you can wander around anywhere and generally find something to unlock or progress your character. There's little side distractions like treasure maps that you can't just immediately rush to without the map. Achievements help fill in the gaps and give incentive for players to investigate all the things they see in order to unlock the bigger rewards. World events that you can spot from a ways away pull you towards areas where you're likely to go check out other things, or party up with other players.

Nothing, but "tower" from upper image ever happened.

Make them about player vs player. The entire idea of having a massively multipler game and then doing shit that could be done in a single player game was dumb.

Of course when you have the idea of a pvp game whose selling point is the sheer scale you realise people will simply play a battle royale.

Unironically, i think game streaming could fix mmorpg. There will be no more datamining and since people are playing mmo, latency doesn't stick out like a sore thumb like in single player games.

kill all troons and minmaxers

focus on the world instead of its players

Literally murder human beings just because they enjoy games differently than you.

Lel, check yourself in to Arkham Asylum, psycho.

At least you are right about troons though.

what does this blue bar do?

Such a retarded line to add to the comic. Basically pic related-tier. It turns it from just someone sincerely trying to immerse themselves in the game to someone who couldn't have been playing for more than a few minutes.

You can't go back, metagaming only goes forward. The top picture only lasts as long as the game wiki is written.

I actually explored the ARRRGH areas expecting something, like an idiot retard

until I saw the writing on the wall in Hwuh and just focused on the Vunnn

Okay, here is another situation.
There is a game called Aion and it was two-faction open world with forced PVP - but please read to the end! - at some point there was a patch 2.0 where each faction had two fortresses each that were besieged by NPC every day. Players let them capture their castles, but the next day they would retake them. And players were graded based on the damage done to the final boss - Fortress general. 100 people who done the most damage would get platinum and gold medals, while rest would get worthless silver or no reward. There was no pvp because enemy faction did the same thing, they let NPC take the forts then retook them to farm medals, which were needed for the best gear in the game. So the fight looked like this: siege starts, people rush through barricades to the final boss, deal as much DPS to it and walk away. You need to repeat this for 150-200 days, and you really want to be in that top 100. People even were discouraged of joining groups because DPS was divided equally among all members.
It was broken apart and solved.

I want an MMO that is like RotMG ( permadeath, relatively short gameplay loop, defined "you beat the game!" state but with extended endgame, auto-partying with nearby players ) except instead of a bullet hell it plays like a more traditional MMO with tab target or a rotation;.
Though I guess that's impossible because the bullet hell nature means you own survival isn't at the mercy of other players playing correctly. If you die it's entirely your fault in RotMG.

Remove levels. Enemies deal percentual damage. Arcade-like combat with focus on timing, CC, tactical formation, short combos, rather than shitting out big numbers per second.
New players focus on exploration, endgame is raids and PvP. Housing system turned into a functional level editor, able to set up teleport points leading into other players' houses so NEETs will have something to do when they run out of content.

rotmg is more like a battle royale than a MMO desu
but I don't think traditional MMO combat is a problem for permadeath, people are somehow able to tolerate playing WoW on hardcore servers

You do what every other popular online game does. Go all in on competitive PvP.
Nobody cares about repetitive, datamined and solved WoW-clone PvE content. It's just boring.

mmos are theme parks now, if you want the old mmo experience then you'd have to go to a custom roleplay server of a sandbox game, like gta 5, rdr2, ark or rust, my solution would be making a game specifically to be a sandbox that you can easily customise, instead of making a single player game that just happens to have customisable sandbox elements, instead of looking at what doesn't work and trying to fix it with duct tape it's better to look at what works and expand on that

I dunno, I played gw2 around the time it's released, but every area was just a set of "collect 5 bear asses and 10 berries" quests, but you could choose which repetitive task to repeat, wow, and the area questlines also just felt like theme park rides, the centaurs are attacking defend the village! -> go destroy the centaur siege engines! -> go kill the centaur leaders in their base camp! -> grats you saved the village! then 3 minutes later, the centaurs are attacking defend the village! like ok, cool theme park ride I guess, the next group can go and get on it

Those who want a pvp sandbox MMO play Eve or Albion Online.

Except it's not true
I play WoW Cataclysm Classic, it was """solved""" many years ago by ElitistJunkies and other nerds. Yet there was so much more new minmax strats and builds to discover, like warlock prepulling with 4 different sets of gear and hardcore raiders back in the day didn't even know what a "prepull" is. Defeating the final boss in Dragon Soul took raiders from South Korea three weeks of enduring trials. And DS Classic took one hour to finish.
I have learned so much new information about the game over the past year that was not written anywhere in the old forums.
We are the ones who write the guides.

You are right. Normalfag wagies take it all so seriously. They have guild applications that feel like a job application with intense interviews following that. They sit in gay discords that feel like a corporate boardroom with tons of rules and sanitary ways of speaking.
And yeah they never take risks when doing the content. They never make any impromtu decisions. They would rather just fail than "break the rules." Like in M+ you really see this. People are willing to bash their head against the wall over and over and over and over again trying to emulate some particular strategy until it works rather than wing it when necessary like a good player.

MMO pvp is always bad. Especially because it massively increases the incentive for metagaming and pay2win bullshit.

alt tabbing gets you kicked and you get a log in penalty timer

game bans you if it detects a wiki in your browser history

You can't without randomizing/altering everything monthly or just making them populated with AI companions. Humans will always meta-game now.

People wont play a game like that, people here already sperg about rootkit anti cheat even existing.

gameify something

"Why is the player treating this as a game?"

How to solve MMO PvP: Players can interact with each other even if one of them is dead. Also make it so levels aren't so absolute.

This solves so many problem. Asshole is ganking lowbies? The lowbies stay dead and haunt and harass his ass until the ganker dies.
Make interacting with dead players use expensive consumables or a specific build untenable for killing non-undead, so it doesn't it up where griefers just have to kill everyone twice.

Which is why we can never go back.

normies are the worst, idiot.

Almost everyone has multiple monitors plus

windows pushes a notification

game force quits and you get fucked over

Dead game

You think focusing on PVP will move it AWAY from being a boring metagame fest? Really?

implying I don't have a phone

I just started ESO and they ran a PvP test campaign with all stats equalized and builds reduced to basic class skills. It was one of the only times I've had fun with MMO PvP content. The 1v1 encounters, small team battles and huge faction sieges with hundreds of players were all fun as fuck. It was predictably met with nonstop crying from the "theory crafters"

It's true, EVE doesn't have this problem. PvP is a "waste of time" so it filters out the kind of people who play MMOs for hyper-optimization.

How come the Steam Charts is completely dominated by PvP games? Even games with evil full-loot PvP are in the Top10.

PvPers are a special breed of retarded entitled brats where they will cry no matter what if they are losing.
They'll praise the PvP as long as they are on a winning streak then as soon as they lose complain about how unfair it is.

The genre unironically devolved.

PVP is not ignored in EVE and EVE has the specific advantage of having decades of consolidation of power. You are basically saying if you made an MMO with 3 factions controlling all the space you have to join, random world PVP wouldn't happen. Well no shit, everyone would stay in their borders.

Exactly this.

It devolved as social media evolved.

gw1 is literally this

how do we get MMO players to stop learning things and live in an eternal state of unknowing

Market MMOs to black people

It devolved purely from a gameplay standpoint but whatever you say.

Realistically you would have to make datamining impossible for a starting point, combined with no public testing of big stuff. Watching people do Destiny raids trying to figure shit out vs WoW Race to World first is pretty big difference. In WoW people have addons and most of the fight was playtested, its just about trying to maximize your damage before weekly lockouts reset which then other people might get better gear and do it first.

In Destiny it really feels like a puzzle everyone learns at the same time and some people get it quicker than others.

Why would anyone even want to play MMOs in this day and age?
It's just a dead genre. Survival games completely killed it
Something like Rust gives the same experience as old-fashioned MMOs but in a much more condensed format. You have clans fall and rise within weeks or even days. It literally fixes the main problem of MMOs with games getting stale

Make it more action oriented, the world can be smaller instead of larger barren areas(not linear, just slightly scaled down). Include way more secrets and shit to find, more challeging monsters and less fetch quests. Make a hub that includes stuff the players can engage socially in, minigames or whatever the fuck. Remove the auction houses and let players open their own small shops in the town squares where they can idle.

You just described any survival game that tries to copy Rust

stop making everything a WoW derivative and do something new

More like a more streamlined version of Terra and Fiesta Online fusion.

"STOP USING GUIDES"

I'll have you know I read a guide before posting and I use only the finest meta strategies for trolling, shitposting, baiting, and sneedposting.

is a dead genre

I'd love a Rust MMORPG that wasn't a first-person shooter. Why is that not a thing? I'm still stuck with Haven&Hearth because it's the only MMORPG that allows you to build stuff in the open world.

MMORPGs are a relic of a bygone era. All the dopamine junkies moved to mobile gaming, all the competitive online gamers moved to Fortnite and the like, and all the RPG fans wen t back to single-player.

That's just wrong. The people playing mmos during the heyday of mmos were not normal people. They were outcasts who were rich enough to have a computer or pay to rent one at a net cafe. They actively wanted to play the game. There was a separation of net and reality. You weren't your mmo character you went online to start a second life in a different world. Now it's infested with normies who want to continue their reality on the net since there's no difference

Pre-WoW MMOs used to have player built cities and shit. Star Wars Galaxies allowed clans to build their own cities and even had entire classes based on politics and architecture.

Do not let casuals or market research retards turn them into casual weekend dad theme parks, terrify them so they stay away with bodies rotting at the bottom of dungeons and 14+ grinding sessions expected. No welfare loot. Make Everquest but better.

That's cool but those games aren't active anymore unfortunately.

Gear system where weapons/armor drop with up to 5 different randomized effects. These effects can combo off each other in interesting ways.
Impossible to metagame a certain build because your best build will always be a unique combination of your best gear effects.

Fan servers exist. Last I checked, some of the SWG fan servers had higher populations than most of the original game servers did.

Sorry faggot but as long as there is in game trade you can figure out optimal way.
Never underestimate autism.

You described diablo 2, one of the most metafagged games in all of history.

You can't.
Datamining and the accessibility of 3rd party tools for things like parsing means the game is solved and "discovered" within a week whereas once upon a time it would've been more like years

the incurious are immune to curiosity, which is the real problem. the moment a game can be optimized - and all games can, it's just a matter of data - then it's doomed to same metagame problems that plague every MMO

the only solution i can think of is to make MMOs have much shorter - but planned - lifespans. an MMO is always at its best at launch, and small incremental changes that happen in patches are too vulnerable to optimization.

DFO did it 80% right

Make leveling fun as fuck, trivial as fuck

Make the endgame the part where we have to work together

Then they fucked it

Didn't ban goldbuyers so the rich assholes with +200 weapons run the show

Only their cocksuckers and equal peers got to do endgame content default. Those at the front of the wave dictate the economic standing of the server and their further riches.

Those behind the front of the wave have to wait for pity content ('training' versions of raids/solo friendly versions of endgame content with a quarter of the rewards. Or events for 1 character's gain per event).

...come to think of it, I don't think MMOs can be truly fixed. Nobody but children or the stupid well off have the free time, and even non MMO games are desperate to grab your time and cling to it as much as possible with MMO style dailies and weekly goals. It's fucked.

Hear me out: an AI powered mmo that changes so often that no experience remains the same so wikis are useless. But it's not completely random so it's playable. Elon, get on it

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Nah. Even when the mystery was abounds, there were data miners and stuff. Back in the FFXI days, it was peak until the data miners. PC is a mistake.

this is often worse than human-crafted content because algorithms follow patterns which are much easier to reverse engineer
that's why procedural generation never took off, no matter how good it was you'd always start seeing the patterns and where all the seams were

everything is datamined before a patch even releases

even if its not, itll take at most 2 days for any and all info to be collected and put on some form of wiki

guides take less than a day to go up

Its fucked, maybe you can stop the last point by making that shit bannable or something when its barely out, that way the big creator people dont want to tie their name to it

How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG on the market?

Play an MMO for what it was always supposed to be: a social game
OSRS is just about the only MMO you can have a proper conversation with someone nowadays

Nobody talks in text-chat and no MMO has built-in voice chat for some reason. Guess where they all went? Discord.

But none of the problems discussed here would be solved by VR...

Valkurm Dunes, pre-AI partner parties

Sitting in the dunes with like 5 other people

Abandoned DPS club. We're regulars

Healers get snatched up, and we bullshit and waste time talking

2 hours just to get a party invite and if one person fucks up, party disbands

I don't blame the tech of party finders at all.

looks like the artist who drew those tf2 girls 20 years ago

party finders haven't ruined MMOs
also play an MMO with better class balance intead of bitching about "tanks and healers" queue times

for some reason

NIGGER
is why plus as you said everyone sues trooncord so putting voice chat in the game is pointless

I actually kind of feel bad for people that weren't alive to experience the early internet, because that is a time that will never be returned to. The internet belongs to bots now.

Assets streamed as required with server side verification to eliminate data mining. Dynamic world with DM run world events that change the shape of the world.
It's pretty simple to be honest.

If you want more nuanced gameplay with this many players, then everyone needs a much better and more consistent internet connection.

or play Dofus or use turn based tactical combat because latency doesnt matter for such a system

Data miners, bots, and gold sellers all immediately permabanned and every effort is made to impede the ones who try anyway
Non-cosmetic addons banned
Balance patches are done on a weekly basis, focusing on small changes to bring outliers in line, no patch notes
All new content is layered within, or an addition to, the base game world. No separate expansion instances.

I've been playing Pantheon with an exercise of grid paper and drawing the world map as I play since it doesn't have one in game. It's been a lot of fun exploring.

Oh gee i wonder why, it couldnt possibly be related to the fact that every MMO now has action combat that has you bash your keyboard making it impossible to do so.

Dofus is still social
you can play with one hand, and people still refuse to learn to use hotkeys

CURIOSITY games (new genres that don't explain shit and make you experiment) - Cultist Simulator, Card Survival Tropical Island, Rimworld. OH You mean mainstream slop? No, the whole point of AAA shit is to repeat same safe schematics,

Openworld basketball.

SEXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
SEX WITH MITHRRAAAAAAAAAA FEMALESSS

They are terrible social games when the only social aspect is pvp and pve with guilds.

Destiny was better because on console you can't easily alt+tab to figure shit out. You could just check your phone but dudebros didn't have so much of a culture of that. I remember the first raid and Oryx in particular taking loads of attempts to work out how to best defeat.
Saying that, Destiny was also a shitty hamster wheel so that's not the best example.

Missing the point, metagame is inevitable so you just roll with it.

you forgot:

completely F2P and I will never buy anything

My favorite jank ass MMO was PvP. It had issues.

Age of Wushu

Game was solved, thus mostly unplayable as a new player unless somehow you got in a huge guild

Open world PvP with some factions doing it for daily quests means you have to watch your ass, lest you get your dick ripped off or your convoy raided or something.

Gtiefers out in open world new-world zones so you could get your newfound scrolls stolen

Pay to win martial arts are the norm. No, Buddha Palm? Prepare to get smacked at a distance without any means to fight back until they feel like getting close.

Pay players also have special random encounters that can be anything from ultra-rare shops, to handouts of rare martial arts/weapons, to quests for major things (Flower Prince Tournament Invite Questline, for example. Be the king of the Emei - a female only sect!)

Also high end crafting requires setting up a station and crafting on it. Getting jumped means you will lose your mats used and time wasted on said mats. Crafted gear is very good, so if you get seen by your opponents/enemies crafting, they'll, free PvP you to death.

Then the casuals flee and the rich win.

Solo queue matchmaking anything has ruined online gaming as a whole. Putting random solo players into group content is never a fun experience.

Can't you just not read the wiki immediately?

The only thing that can save MMORPG's is sandbox features and procedural worlds, so in other words they need to be like Minecraft MMO servers but actually good.

Then you have to deal with metafags who will bitch and moan about people not following the wiki and wasting their precious time.

Stop playing themepark slop

Make everyone a DPS.

MMO's are not, and never have been good. They drip feed you content like gachas, in fact, it is most comparable to a gacha and not a real video game.

Anon, the biggest bitchers are the ones who have 6 gorillion hours in FF11 and EVE

What's stopping you from forming a group?

I mean even in OSRS you hotkey stuff for high end PvM or PvP
Swapping 6 pieces of gear, attack style, prayers and clicking your target in less than a second just isn't feasible without binds to swap menus
I think it's more up to the type of person a given game attracts

This is why fighting games are shit BTW. PvP in MMO is just fighting vidya but on a bigger, more whiny scale.

MMO's and gacha are very similar in that the ultimate appeal of them is to show off to others how much effort and/or money you spent in the game off to other players.
Even the way that they're monetized has essentially become the same, with most MMOs adopting free to pay like gacha.

The problems plaguing MMOs are simply that the current gaming environment doesn't allow them to make a "living" world. You must make progress every single day, because you have less and less time to dedicate to the game. This has led to devs making "dailies" and rep grinds, to basically trick you into logging in every single day to justify your time spent. Progress, without progress.

that's just an arpg and I can assure you people metagame and build optimization in those.
maaaaybe if there is zero trade, but then your playbase will be eternally asshurt about it and you WILL lose players from not having trade

He doesn't know about Freestyle2

Lesser extent: Freejack Online

Koreans STILL swarm that shit over blacks.

explain what's a living world you dingus

plenty of MMOs have "populated worlds" where you see people running about and being eyecandy

Datamining to find the COR and BLU qiests

Worth it. Sorry, but you aren't gatekeeping my, Final Fantasy all timer (BLU) and the class that's so fun it'll never come back (COR) for long. I was sold the expansion on one class, COR just happened to be awesome.

Blade and Soul fixed 99% of the problems.
No 'roles'.
High dps has agro, if they fuck up and get hit they'll be cc'd and someone else will end up high dps.
Damage can almost always be avoided by blocking/dodging/i-frames.
Healing trickles in from hitting the enemy, so you can occasionally fuck up but not repeatedly.
CC works on bosses but requires multiple players using the same kind of CC at the same time.
You upgrade your equipment with materials from activities. You get more from daily/weekly activities but you can grind as much as you want for them, and buy and sell them on auction.
Loot from bosses is bid on by all players, then the money is distributed to everyone who didn't get the loot. This means everyone gets an equal share.
PVP requires putting on faction outfits.
The main faction split (which is practically just this outfit and pvp activity); forces new people to join the less populated faction.
Arena has normalized gear.
PvE has fuck you difficulty solo content not really meant to be beaten. It involves 100 floor tower where you fight NPC versions of player classes except they blatantly input read and have no CD on their abilities. Beating floors quickly makes you jump up levels. I think you get 5 wins or a loss then kicked out and it takes a ticket you need to collect 2 of per day at the entrance. When you re-enter you are 1/4 of the way back down from where you ended. (this whole thing is to encourage pay2win obviously but beating this as f2p is my top gaming achievement.)

Of course after the first year they fucked it all up and made tanks and healers and gear requiring raid drops. Still has the best combat of any game.

Don't MMORPG's are shit.

actually theyre good

Name 1 that was good to play solo for a extended period of time.

thats not the point its fun with friends

Its easy for things to be fun with friends dipshit thats why youre friends with those people.

Why would I need to fix the MMO genre?

Make ripoff of MMO-Lites and don't fuck them up.

Profit.

Case in point: PSO2 sucks dick now. Something should fill in that autistic online yet not raping you, of your time niche.

Atlyss

Needs better dungeon balance but is SUPER close to being good.

RNG mandatory for upgrading so you can clear content

Nvm it's trash. Oops.

Why make an MMO when I can make co-op horror slop like REPO or Phasmaphobia or Lethal Company? Money up front, and we can rug pull at any time. Plus the jumpscares ensure stream/youtube bait!

Ez

Name 1 that was good to play solo for a extended period of time

As an autist, I've spent well over 400 raw solo hours in FFXI. Beastmaster and Summoner solo to 75, no linkshell until I bothered leveling Red Mage.

Also Valkyrie Sky Online is the best MMO ever period and played exclusively solo, but that shit got ruined by hackers and shut down in a fucking week.

People don't communicate because they get banned and money stolen. It is on my list of legal pursuits if I come into some money.

pso2 has always raped your time with its mobage ass design, shit drop rates and gear handouts bro

This. All the regular rpgs where you have a huge choice of jobs and abilities require the game to be easy enough to actually allow choosing things that aren't the best. Autistic everyone must be equal balance fuckery is the worst part of modern games. Some games get it and make it clear that certain characters are meant to be easier to play than others.

BALANCE IS ALLOWING ALL PLAYERS THE SAME FUCKING CHOICE OF WHAT CHARACTER TO PLAY.

Why communicate? I'm not getting banned because I said

Blazing Grove

And the game detects "NGGR" and bans me lmao.

Allakhazan already existed in 2000, it's the ancestor of wikis.