This is the good ending trust me bro

healthily remembers her brother through his plushie instead of drowning herself on sorrow and cope

You forget the rest of the cutscene where they made crystal clear that ''you fucked up'' in multiple angles lmao

sister rewards him trapping his soul in an eternal purgatory to suffer

you forgot

while she is actively killing herself, thus taking the sacrifice for granted

there are no good endings in this game. the verso ending being presented as a good thing, resurrecting these people to fucking kill them again is honestly nuts. i hope this delusional writer keeps making games for the rest of my life, the first time in like 20 years I was actually entertained by a game’s story it’s a 10/10 in that department.

MAELLE WINS

I thought i got the bad ending when it went to black and white lmao

They already died once, they should have stayed dead.

Ok. Here is the blackpill.

First, why is nonne talking about the fact Lune is canonically Verso's woman?
It changes heavily how you perceive the endings.
Here is the most important song of the OST (last song of the OST and is basically the main theme with translated lyrics from the invented language:
youtube.com/watch?v=7lM8fVR_oZw

Lyrics:

Maelle has a life to paint

Sweet erased star

Alicia has a life to paint

Verso in the night

Lune by his side

No mention of Sciel whatsoever.

Also the first song (and main theme) of the OST is called Alicia.
The last one Maelle.
Maelle is the main character.
It’s her story. Every single line of dialogue in the game is just here to confirm that the whole world and its inhabitants are indeed real.
Her ending is definitely canon. Whether you like or not. She won.

lune feet > p*inter whining

Right but they didn’t, which is why I made that post.

Posted it again award

rent free

True and I fucking hate that you still main Verso at camp in Act 3 even if it’s called MAELLE. Sandfall really had a hardon for that emo faggot

translated lyrics from the invented language

Headcanon award

Yeah he is the director's blatant self-insert because he is a DMC autist

Because it's the story it TARD WRANGLING her into stopping her cope.

By the way anyone whanna bet that there is a secret ending we have not found?

Clea has a really hot voice.

That doesn't exist anymore after people learned who to look into the files

I highly doubt there is a single thing anyone on the internet hasn't already found yet.

Nah, someone would've datamined it already if there was one

Generally I don’t like it when I have to main characters with big secrets they’re hiding from everyone including the player. There’s a disconnect that really irks me. I also hate him because he’s a faggot

What, are you 12

what is bittersweet ending

yeah, their life matter, that what makes the ending so impactful

Like the verso one, it is not a ''bad ending'' but certanly isn't something you should root for either, the french love that kind of melancholic shit

suicide is a happy ending

kino

I just value immersion in games and I’m not into flirty guys that are secretly going to kill you because I’m not a woman who writes letters to convicted murderers in her alone time

There is no "good" or "bad" ending.

Did you fucks even play the game?

the woman who did the majority of the writing for the game listed her favorite stories, and one among them is "Those Who Leave Omelas". reading that short novel puts in perspective EXACTLY what the fuck the Maelle ending is. I'm tired of people misinterpreting it. Maelle is a perfect ending, only Verso suffers, but horribly and forever. Verso ending is literally about those who walk away from omelas - unknown, vague, but ultimately morally right. everything else is a contrivance

its good in terms of cinematic value

only Verso suffers

And her family.

tragedy of the verso ending is kinda forced, bro just hide the canvas better

but if their lives matter, then their lives obviously matter more! or what, is it worth erasing an entire civilization to one family can get over its grief? the only way the verso ending works is if their lives don't matter at all!

Have you missed the point where her entire family despises her?

are you all just ignoring Verso's soul constantly suffering being forced to draw?

The one you made up?

the woman who did the majority of the writing for the game listed her favorite stories, and one among them is "Those Who Leave Omelas"

good post. didn't know the omelas parallel was actually intentional. my enjoyment of the story has been vindicated tenfold. versoGODs can't stop winning

Maelle will die in 150 or so years and then Renoir will burn the painting. He just has to wait a bit longer.

Renoir loves her

Clea loves her, she's just harsh

her mother will come around once she stops grieving, but it'll take time

Whoever thinks this or Verso's ending are somehow justifiable conclusions is objectively retarded or extremely fucked up, no in-between

reminder that last thread Maellefags:

argued she was actually miserable in the other ending where she is smiling with her family

argued it's okay to watch your daughter kill herself because it's her life

argued that Maelle is actually super strong (the game says the opposite) and is going to live for 100 years inside the painting despite the game showing you, with a jumpscare, that is not the case

argued Renoir is lying and pic related is not real

and last but not least remember that they say they are Maellefags but ONLY VersoCHADS protect her smile and help her move on with her life and don't pick the ending where she dies coughing up blood

that story is one of the worst moral philosophy tales ever written. it exploits the fact that humans find single cases easier to empathize with -- the same thing behind 'one death a tragedy a million a statistic' -- to argue that an entire civilization of happy people isn't worth the suffering of one innocent. it's completely disconnected from reality, if you want to do anything good anywhere you have to accept tradeoffs. or are you gonna 'walk away from omelas' in real life and stop using all this technology built from cobalt mined by children in the congo?

Do you really think Renoir despises her? Do you just not get tough love at all?

The problem with the comparison to that story is that the people in the canvas can't leave. They have no choice but to simply exist in the canvas.
And also Real Verso voluntarily put his soul into the canvas

most people here didn't even play the game lmao. just watched a youtube video and read the wiki

Maellefag making up events that don't happen in the game to justify his choice #25823948

Clea loves her, she's just harsh

Are you serious?
youtube.com/watch?v=0oBS10g5F3Y

Clea! Don't Pull Your Sister Hair!

Even the OST refers to how vile she was to Alicia.

The Painters in the context of the story are like the gods of olympus - some can reach close to comprehension, but ultimately fall short of cognising the scope. Verso gets both the scope and the realization of his lesser statue.

You need to look at it like this.
Imagine there is a story where a sad child's favorite Toy comes to life because of magic or whatever.
The rest of the story is the two of them going on adventures.
Ultimately the story ends with the ending of the dolls life as a living creature and the child moving on, whether this be through tragedy, sacrifice, or the child not needing it anymore causing the magic to fade. But it still happens.
The thematic purpose for this ending is that the doll's role in the story was as a companion for the child to grow past their issues and once that role was done catharsis is obtained from its ending.

I'm sure you have heard stories that align with this kind of plot before, and to that end Expedition 33 is another story in that realm of stories. They just make the Toy into a civilization of human looking people and start the game with a fakeout narrative from the "toy's" perspective.

No, the part when she says 'Papa has a soft spot for me' and was shown to be correct when he fucks off is inconvenient to his headcanon so he ignored it

you've never had a sibling lmao

omg kids pulling hair... how vile...and cruel...

yeah. it's about having the strength to walk away from the logic of "tradeoffs" which dominates the real world, and to accept that nothing is truly good that is paid for with evil. daily animal holocausts aren't worth hentai and pizza.

maelleniggers are a blight

Renoir might think he loves his daughter but he knows nothing about her. He doesn't pay attention to her at all.
Did you not do the Reacher area? It was all about how Renoir doesn't even know who his daughter is. He doesn't even know she has vertigo.

harsh pill to swallow is that painting lives are easier to make and as a consequence cost less, one painter can produce infinite amount of painting lives so if you put value in the lives of painting people you should value the lives of painters infinitely more

the problem's also that walking away from omelas annihilates it. so it's a good twist on the allegory

my parents and i have a difference of opinions

they must despise me

Found the mutt

that's kind of on you for expecting socially stunted retards to understand it, isn't it?

Maelle is the main character.

True and I fucking hate that you still main Verso at camp in Act 3 even if it’s called MAELLE.

It was made readily apparent to me Maelle was the protagonist after Gustave's death. So much to the point always main'd her on the world map and environments. So the ending felt perfectly at home when I had to make the choice between her and Verso. Granted, I am not in the "hurdurr my ending is canon" camp - both are valid. But I will side with Maelle each and every time.

Also this:

Maelle has a life to paint

Sweet erased star

Alicia has a life to paint

A "Life to Paint" is the name of Maelle's ending. Interesting.

Renoir might think he loves his daughter but

HERE WE GO LADS, NEW HEADCANON COPE #4454543 HOT N' FRESH

op here - the story in the original context is used as window dressing. when only one person (verso) is even consciously capable of walking away from omelas, the situation is changed.

he didn't understand the parable

also moving goalposts

She's a greatly talented girl who limits herself.
Just like his wife is an obsessed cunt who is only focused on n her craft and yet deeply loves her

And yet somehow she still climbs it, wow, almost like he knew the whole time she could.

sciel was already halfway out of omelas/the canvas, so technically not true.

Nooooo! You can't choose a comfortable euthanasia over living as a cripple! You HAVE to suffer!

So the ending felt perfectly at home when I had to make the choice between her and Verso.

You chose the ending that's actively worse to her.

Verso's entire backstory is about how his parents doesn't care about what he wants.
Both Aline and Renoir simply doesn't care what their children actually wants.

i know this is the story they were TRYING to tell, my whole point is that it doesn't work.

a civilization of humans who desperately want to survive is not even slightly analogous to a magically enchanted children's toy, anon. a child's toy isn't human, doesn't have human rights, and in the context of a story like that probably does not have the human drive to keep living. e33 story does not present its civilization going happily to its death, in fact the whole opening is about how they desperately don't want to die -- just look at lune. lune's getting her life erased so one family can get over its grief easier. she alone has a strong case. but her entire civilization is at stake too. you'd have to declare it all fake (and show that it's fake) to make it make sense, but the game won't do this because it wants you to care about them.

it only becomes Omelas once Alicia realizes she's Maelle - before that the comparison is not relevant

make a painting about his self-conscious daughter getting over her fears to reach for the stars

uses her vertigo as an obvious parable

game even spells out it by the midway point

Maellefags still don't get it

Amazing.

why get mad at verso for dooming the canvas when maelle's "comfortable euthanasia" is going to do the same, in the long run?

You HAVE to suffer

good thing we have something in the game to show that she moves past the darkness and has, as the ending states, an entire new LIFE TO LOVE
retard

comfortable euthanasia

while torturing her brother's soul

Gee how comfortable

posts david lynch

complains about "justifiable" conclusions

Twin Peaks would mindrape you, shitter.

Maellefags comprehend what is happening on their screens without a narrator challenge: IMPOSSIBLE

no, it's been Omelas the whole time because of the fragment of true Verso's soul.

According to who? (You?) Fuck off already. I am tired of diatribe with you autists.

walk away from the logic of "tradeoffs" which dominates the real world, and to accept that nothing is truly good that is paid for with evil

this is moral nihilism then. if everything we call good is the result of tradeoffs, which taint something such that it cannot be truly good, then nothing can be truly good, and we can never be satisfied or happy about anything we have in this world.

Because Maelle’s choice isn’t about saving the Canvas, it's about accepting the impermanence of it. Her ending is peaceful release, not damnation. Verso's ending *chains* everyone, again, to grief and illusion, because he can't let go. The Canvas dies either way—the difference is whether it's allowed to *rest* or forced to bleed forever.

sorry you can't accept what is explicitly laid out in the game and that you have to make up stuff instead

You have have to be kidding. There are a LOT of micro expressions and hints in the graveyard scene, that shows that all is not so good. A lot.

You don't just "get over" vertigo.

she wastes away in a delusion never getting over her brother's death while actively torturing his clone and his soul

But this is a good end for Alicia.

this is moral nihilism then.

the complete opposite - what is truly good is walking away from a world sustained by suffering, even if what lies beyond is inconceivable. that's the point of the story. it isn't about utilitarianism, it's a gnostic allegory. i bet you ate meat today, anon. so did i, so don't blow a hemorrhoid.

Verso worked on only a single canvas and then they got him a piano when he wanted to be a musician.

Maelle doesn't even bother with painting and is more interested in reading, so they got her a billion books and a typewriter.

even restored her private reading room after the fire

because he can't let go

nigger... his entire arc is about making sure his family lets go of the canvas. His painted version choses the sacrifice that his painter version chose when he saved his sister

Maelle's ending is called A Life to PAINT

Verso's ending is called A Life to LOVE

Makes it pretty evident which one is the least sorrowful

see the ending with the game's theme music and everyone smiling and the old crew waving goodbye and the fact it is named "A life to love" is actally le bad

lol
lmao

It's a parable you fucking retard.

not true - the whole painting process seems to imply the willingness of parting with that fragment. the child verso ENJOYS being there until the family fucks it up, hence being another twist on the original short story.

How am I supposed to build Sciel?

Renoir sama... I kneel

straight delusional

also, autist who couldn't read facial expressions in the dark ending talking about 'micro expressions' in the light one

LOL

A parable that shows he doesn't understand his daughter.

explicitly laid out

- By the voices in your head yes. Sorry you need online strangers to validate your opinions about a story on Anon Babble and dissenting opinions leave you frothing at the mouth. Such is the life of an autist.

it's maelle who chains the canvas to illusion and to dooming the last fragment of her real brother's soul to being a sufferpig battery. it's verso who allows the canvas to rest, it's maelle who prolongs its bleeding.

I agree that's where the game fucks up, but that is not an excuse to reject the Verso ending being good as many other do just because you value the material over the theming.
Where the game fucked up is that they wanted you to care just enough to make it feel bad but not enough to deny the bad ending being bad. Which is also why everyone but Alicia and Verso stops mattering by the end of act 2.

Just do damage, it's not that complicated

She has a shitton of utility skills that are amazing.

but this isn't omelas -- this isn't rejecting a happy civilization because it depends on the suffering of a child, this is *destroying* a happy civilization because it depends on an agonized cripple being happy in a way that makes her father sad. omelas itself is stupid, but this variant of it is giga retarded.

no..NO the game is wrong my voices are correct YOU'RE THE SCHIZO

lol

They are just zoomers still relating with a 16 years-old girl like rebellious teenagers without realizing they are soon reaching 30s

You don't understand the parable.

the issue's never been about the original canvas being omelas. it became omelas precisely when verso's parents poisoned it with their bullshit.

why everyone but Alicia and Verso stops mattering by the end of act 2.

You have the end of their character arcs in act 3, which is already light in main plot.

the light one

retard can't into color grading analysis, there is nothing light in the verso's ending, actually it's all red variants, which is not good news

You will live your life in a world at war as a cripple and without your brother and LOVE it!

Now, say it again without crying.

can’t empathize with fatherly love

wants to take moral high ground and lecture others about love

your hugbox is on the next tab fag

I'm 33 and Maelle's ending is canon

French entertainment media has a depressing/melancholic/bittersweet/pyrrhic victory/etc ending

Why are they always such sadsacks?

but that is what i exactly said. you agree with me, but misunderstood my post

obviously the verso ending is intended to be good, but they just failed to justify it -- if you pick the maelle ending to preserve lumiere, the game acts like you picked it because you thought maelle's desire to remain in the canvas was justified. when obviously both her and verso were retarded, just he's the only one that wanted to destroy an entire civilization.

Just like Renoir doesn't understand his daughter.

there is nothing light in the verso's ending, actually it's all red variants

game is called Clair Obscur

one ending is in black and white with no music during the end segment except for a piano slam, heavy shadows on all character's faces

the other is in color with lots of lighting and the game's theme music playing

I'm dying, these fucking brainlets lmao

World War I trauma

I'm not crying you're crying, says retard who said "I'm not the schzio, YOU are"

hit me with one more no u, make it a triple. And then go play the game so you can pay attention to what happened in it lmao

Clea has a really hot voice.

Naturally.

Oh he does. Vertigo didn't stop her from climbing the tower when she set her mind to it.

lives as maelle for 16 years

brother figure dies

chooses based Clea path of revenge

lives as Alicia again for 15 minutes

yeah fuck that I’m staying in there

hair splitting. i obviously meant that the canvas is omelas not because of maelle, but because of true verso suffering at the bottom of it. that there was once a time he didn't suffer is beside the point. there was never a time he WASN'T suffering because of his parents' bullshit

no - it's the formation of an omelas situation by the active participation of a benevolent god in the form of maelle. while the other painters intentionally play background mystical figures, maelle directly involves herself, thus creatjng the parable.

you spend 10 hours a day smoking cigarettes outside a cafe before you lecture me on joy

You will live your life in a groundhog day loop forcing your brother playing the piano everyday like a puppet and you will like it!

one ending is in black and white

Yet you can only see the black

Every day in the painting has a price.

Let me show you why I cannot leave you

"Hmmm I don't like this, I think I will ignore it and pretend it didn't happen" - t. Maelletards

ok i can kind of get behind it as a reflection on how helpless we are before a world that demands we make people suffer for anything good. you're right actually.
still doesn't work for the game's ending though.

Exactly, in hindsight I don't actually have any qualms with you, I have issue with those who are rejecting denying what the story was going for because their are mentally damaged in ways that cause them to parallel Alicia.

He fucking deserved it. Fucking faggot letting Gustave die. Yeah that's the good ending in my book

So the reason Sophie and Gustave's sister looked identical is because Aline literally couldn't be fucked?

ugly frog

the true verso does not suffer - it is a voluntary part of the painting process, if a 8 year old child is allowed to do it. the omelas parallel appears with the involvement of the other actors. the fake Verso, real as he can be, is the child of omelas, not the soul fragment

the game's ending complicates the terms of the story, but i'd say it still mostly works. surprised how sharp the plot turned out to be the more i think about it desu.

Clea is, yes

If the painted people are not real, why do you care what she does with them?

trusting (((the writers))) to tell you which ending is good

but the fake verso is not the child sustaining the reality of the canvas. you're right we don't really see the child verso suffering horribly, but he is is still that creative principle at the bottom of the world who would rather not be doing what he's doing.

the parable was created the instant aline created lumiere - she was already using her son's soul to intoxicate herself

See the love of you life get Gorrmage'd

Determinedly set out to fight for what you believe in

Whole team gets stomped

Whelp time to kill myself.

They are very much real, as stated by every single line of dialogue in the whole game.
They are real. Real. Real. Deal with it.
Real.

Oh but you did.

hit me with one more no u,

Hey, you started this first with Autist-sama. Either way, this is your final (You) I know you cannot get the taste of my dick out of your mouth and need my (You)s like Maelle needs a canvas, but you're boring me. Good day.

So then killing them all is a moral atrocity, and Maelle's ending is the preferable one?

What did you expect?

She basically already made it clear she isn't overly concerned with what's happening and is more focused on the war with the writers. Renoir noticed this.

i cant even reply man, that was clever cause she is a filthy frenchy frog
you win anon

Yeah that was forced melodrama shit writing. Gustave doing that before he could confirm Maelle’s death was retarded no clue what they were thinking

this is the good ending trust me bro

but by your interpretation we arrive at the same conclusion - both real and fake verso only become the child of omelas once direct outside intervention occurs. the ultimate payoff is not changed, walking away is the moral choice, as every bit of happiness is ultimately fueled by not just one, but coming from you, two children suffering

That's what I've been saying the whole time, yes. Maelle's ending is canon as reflected by the game, the entire OST and hopefully soon the devs themselves. It's blatant.

Poor Lune. She tried the hardest.

but in this interpretation, i don't see the analogy. if omelas is about how the world we live in depends upon the suffering of innocents, and that we must recognize the tragedy and imagine a better world even if it is incomprehensible --
how exactly does that analogize to the game's ending, where the destruction of an entire world of people who don't want to die is held to be the ethical choice because it preserves one family's happiness and frees the lost soul of a child from labor.

omelas isn't about how such a world should be destroyed -- if i understand you correctly, it's about how we must imagine a better one even if it runs contrary to our very nature.

it would be really funny if there was real lune and she was verso's girlfriend/fiance

The game went through like 5 drafts and only 30% of the original draft survived into the game itself.
And you can really feel it.

Maelle's ending is canon as reflected by the game, the entire OST and hopefully soon the devs themselves. It's blatant

finishes up with one more 'no u' and his gay fantasy

what else should I have expected from a retard who has to ignore what a video game says in its text and cutscenes and substitutes his own made up reality due to severe brain damage?

KEK
Also, canonically his woman in the OST.
But killing his wife is definitely good ending I swear!

Why is it always waifufags that get the most up in arms about "escapism is bad" endings.

i guess your original point was that sciel couldn't have been walking away from omelas if she wasn't even able to conceptualize it. i suppose we don't really disagree

Which ending did Macron choose?

lol
lmao even

I don’t think so. Her ending doesn’t mesh with the obvious writers sequel baiting

There are bits of the original story in this alpha trailer:
streamable.com/fxo6p1

Maelle's ending cannot be canon because the sequel clearly will be about the writers.

Braid Haircut

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

He didn't write this and didn't play the game

Sciel might as well be bald without the red beret

i don't have an answer. the writers fumbled the their twist on the omelas allegory, which is: is walking away from omelas because of the child's suffering justified if it causes the suffering of thousands more? i still say if you reject omelas uncompromisingly, the ending works. the collateral damage we're not supposed to really think about

If still don't get that there will be no sequel and thz Clair Obscur will go the FF route then I don't know why I am even debating in the first place.

If still don't get that there will be no sequel and thz Clair Obscur will go the FF route then I don't know why I am even debating in the first place.

Tales from my ass award

chat, is this real

What is Renoir's lion supposed to be?

The FFX route you mean

It sounds like the idea was something along the lines of the party betraying the mission for some idealized better outcome and everyone getting fucked for it with a chance to pull it back only to get folded by what I would assume are the implied "good guys".

It is:
reddit.com/r/RecordThisForFree/comments/g5a6e8/game_ambitious_aa_game_project_looking_for_3/
the google drive links are private now but I saved the trailer when it was public

yes, it was. thanks dude

The question now is, what ending will the movie pick?

I don't care what the ending is as long as Verso is not happy about it. Fuck that little nigger for just waltzing in and replacing Gustave.

Its clear her style of grieving or coping mechanism is to have full revenge spree for Verso and Murder every Writerfags.

What is Renoir's lion supposed to be?

Nothing. It was, literally, an Elden Ring reference.

if it's an american production, they'll soften the maelle ending

Good call on their part. I'll never play as a woman

damn thats crazy, what a transformation that game took and luck in finding the right people

dad strong lion strong so dad have lion. Real renoir is better at parables

I think it's less that you're supposed to care about the family more than the painting people, but you're supposed to care more about Maelle committing suicide by painting. Everything is nice for the painting people, for however long Maelle lives in the painting but it's all fleeting. Once she goes, there's no way Renoir is letting the canvas exist. as much as I love the game's story and themes it is a bit contrived that they handwave away the notion that the painting could be hidden away for a time so they can grieve without relying on it.

FFVIII*

ruining his country out of misguided platitudes about the upper planes

verso

his bitch wife painted him to behave like an asshole

probably some allegory for pridefulness, violence or rage

verso son or alicia daughter

I get Kid verso having crater face in the painting but I have no clue why Renoir and Aline look like that when Maelle doesn’t and Renoir doesn’t have to

Painted Renoir is nothing but kind towards his family and he doesn't seem to care about anyone else. Just like how Real Renoir is.

suicidal artsfag or quiet bookreader

easy choice

Once she goes, there's no way Renoir is letting the canvas exist

this is something you hear a lot from pro-verso people, but it's never stated in game, and renoir himself states that he doesn't want to destroy the final remnant of verso's soul. if his wife and daughter are already dead and gone, the only reason he'd have to destroy the canvas is spite, and he doesn't seem like a very spiteful guy.

it's at least not *obvious* that he would.

Him talking about Alicia when it appeared made me think it was her.

Verso Son
Real Verso has an immense moral backbone and will of steel to give his life for another, and I would be proud to ahve someone like that as my son.

your sister deservers more.

*Lion appears

It is Clea's lion, another one of her crazy nevrons.

but it's never stated in game,

it is, though, by maelle, but maybe it's one of her junkie rationalizations.

as much as i hate verso, i’m compelled to consider rationally here

Completely normal son that is made gloomy by the actions of his parents, despite which remains completely selfless

or

completely normal daughter that rebelled against her parents and got her sibling killed

I'm sticking with Verso

she says he'd destroy it if she *left*, not if she died. if she left, he'd destroy it so she couldn't go back into it, but if she dies in the canvas, that doesn't apply.

real verso had a ton of inside jokes with his dad

Verso obviously

i don't think she rebelled against her parents, she's just the classic weak link that can't follow in her parent's footsteps manipulated by their sworn enemies.

fair point. i don't see renoir destroying the canvas out of spite, either

The game was better when the damage was capped at 9.999

Maelle thinks he would, and honestly I think he would too because the alternative is likely losing both his wife and youngest child to it. Again I don't think erasing everyone in the painting is necessary, simply hiding the painting away in a secure location would likely be enough but it's handwaved away by "she'll find it eventually" which is a cop-out but it's really not a huge big deal

Family dog that burned in the fire

yeah they shouldve had an upper limit like 999K and scaled weapons upgrades down

The story would have been 200x more kino if Alicia and Verso were lovers in the real world.
Prove me wrong.

yeah but see here the point they make is that the maelle ending is still bad for lumiere because renoir would destroy the canvas after maelle dies, but preventing maelle (and aline) from dying is his whole motive for doing the dirty work of destroying the canvas.

I thought that was Monnoco

not everything has to be romantic love

But Aline is still around and so the painting is still a threat.

You can tell spergs who are crying about Verso replacing Gustave didn't play the game properly but were just fucking speedrunning it

but aline is obviously going to die before maelle is -- she's like 90, she's just as addicted, and she's spent way more time in it. by the time maelle finally kicks it in there, both of them will be dead.

I choose Maelle's ending simply so she can't fuck up anything else in the real world.

After this update, it is possible to have a fair fight against Simon, even if you use Stendhal?

yeah but he'd do it to save Aline in a scenario where Maelle commits suicide by painting, either that or they'd go back to fighting in the canvas until they both die. either way I think the canvas' fate was sealed, it was just a matter of when.

micro expressions

grasping

There is no good ending. That's kind of the point.

Clea was already in love with him.

There's work to be done.

RENOIR, PAINTER

depends on how it works really, if it's a matter of who is the stronger Painter Aline could outlast Maelle, but if we go just by lifespan then yeah Aline will croak first.

no way maelle dies before aline does, just doesn't make sense.
plus, considering the time dilation, this means the canvas gets to exist for likely another 100 years or so -- aline's time in the canvas accounts for the entire history of lumiere.
that's worth preserving. many good lives will be lived in that time frame.

That’s kind of the point

Love it when redditors say this. People will claim painted people aren’t real when they live among actual chatbots.

aline is really an unknown quantity in maelle's ending. we don't know any of the relevant lore here, because the game assumes you choose that ending because you agree with maelle, and not because you care about the future of lumiere.

it should be preserved in general, but as I've said multiple times, they handwave away that possibly with a bit of a contrivance. ideally the painting is stashed in a place nobody can get to, everyone grieves without it then it can be reintroduced safely back to the family as a keepsake/memorial.

How do Cleafags feel about the last scene with Francoise

I mean it is called clair obscur for a reason

Where does this stuff about the canvas dying without Alicia or Maelle stuff come from? Did I miss something? The boy is still in there painting, if Maelle didn’t need him to keep it going why doesn’t she let him go?

it's people trying to argue that renoir would destroy the canvas even in maelle's ending.

alicia

Aline
Thanks

remember, erasing this is the good ending btw

Verso's ending: everyone is destroyed and the painting they inhabitant too

Maelle's ending: everyone is controlled by a broken Alicia who will die in the painting and it will get destroyed after that

my wife is absolutely perfect in every single way

Yes, because they are less real, still real just less so than the Painters.

in Maelle's ending she makes the argument that Renoir would destroy the painting if she left it, which is why she has to stay. I think she's correct with this assessment, and is hoping Maelle will leave of her own accord after grieving in the painting but it could just be her rationalizing her suicide by painting.

Alecia ending:

youtube.com/watch?v=QxTMbIxEj-E

The good ending would be asking Verso’s soul what he wants. He’s right there. Quit being faggots, jfc

Verso ending is the "good" ending.

The real verso made the canvas, so he had all the right to erase it. He did not even want to be a painter from the start.

Nonetheless. Maelle is now "free". Now she can grow up in the real world and help her family against the writers. Do people really wanted a sequel without Alicia?

I think a second game covering Clea's grief via her solitary war against the writers would be interesting

everyone is controlled

Headcanon.

she literally has a man face. this isnt a joke.

everyone is controlled by a broken Alicia

this is another big shibboleth. the painted people are clearly not 'under control' of the painters, because the entire games conflict is about painted people trying to beat the shit out of painters to kick them out of the canvas. aline does not control her creations, in fact her creations betray her continually, and even kick her out of the canvas.

beyond that, maelle has absolutely *no motivation* to take control of her friends, except verso. but even then, it's ambiguous as to what's going on there -- and even if she can control him, she can't force him to feel happy or think certain thoughts.

Verso ending: snap your sister back to reality

Maelle ending: weeaboo who played too much Persona games and wants an "happy ending"

So Calvin and Hobbes, basically?

Verso ending: edgy weebs who think genocide is justified

fify

because the entire games conflict is about painted people trying to beat the shit out of painters to kick them out of the canvas

I think it varies. Simon and Painted Clea were very clearly being puppeted by a painter for example. I don't think Alicia is puppeting them however.

I find it very odd that this idea has gotten so much space. Because we see how a painted person looks like when they are controlled by a painter with Clea. And no one in the ending is anywhere close to looking like that.

i think only clea can do that, but yeah good point.

Source on that statistic?

Clea is uninterested and leaves

Renoir and aline comforting each other

Alicia still being ignored by her family, only clutching a toy of Esquie (the last reminder of Verso)

Alicia see's the only people that ever cared about her fade away.

There is no "good" ending

now that I processed the story I feel like the actual premise is miles better than the actual result we got
an expedition into the unknown, to kill a god and save the world while sacrificing yourself is much more interesting and the only reason people played the game, the initial hook is just impossible to resist even without the prologue
you read the description or watch the initial trailer and you are instantly hooked
Id honestly take "for those who come after" over "escapism bad lol"

maruki did nothing wrong

It is. Now play the piano lil' bro

Headcanon.

Explain this frame then, provided you are capable of it, of course

Most anons here are low IQ and can only perceive matters myopically in black and white. Ironic, considering "Clair Obscur" - but the human condition drives them to justify their values and convictions as a lesser evil. It is very clear both endings are balanced with tragedy (Maelle rejecting her biological family and dying in the canvas and the genocide of everyone you fought to save and preserve) - but both parties will perform mental gymnastics to justify why the vanilla sprinkled shit is superior to the chocolate sprinkled shit to validate their worldview. It would be much simpler if we could all acknowledge what fits us personally instead of forcing our values as absolutes. But this is Anon Babble, so this debate is going to continue until autists are secure enough with their opinion they do not feel the need to defend it any more.

You can just stop playing after act 2 if that's the story you want. Just don't watch the entire cutscene.

this is a frame indicating that maelle will die in the canvas, and that her real body is afflicted in the same way her mother's was. the paint on her face is identical to the paint on aline's.

it does nothing to communicate that anyone is being "controlled"

Was it implied when someone has spooky painter eyes that they are currently controlling people?

Excellent post that captures my entire thoughts on the matter. The presentation at the end tries very hard to paint this as a moral failure, as if failing to overcome a material attachment to the painted world is some sort of sin but gives me nothing to value the Dessendres more than Lumiere and its people. If anything, trapping their family in a dysfunctional hell of their own making is a form of justice.

I want you to explain why this frame means she is controlling anyone.
We see similar things on Renoir, Aline, and Clea. It is obviously how a painter looks when they are interacting with a canvas.
What this frame is showing is reminding us (and Verso) on the toll being in the canvas is taking on Maelle.

why does she dress so vulgarly?

if it's any solace she could likely re-create those people in her own painting, though probably not Monoco and Esquie because those are actually Verso's handmade creations.

She probably can't recreate the people of Lumiere either in a new canvas, since those were Aline's creations.

He sees Maelle looking into the painting from the other side genius

Verso doesn't deserve a good ending fuck him.
He is like a more likeable version of the Practical Incarnation from PS:T

so do they just never explain the whole relationship level/gradient attacks thing? If I hadn't stumbled onto it I would've never known

Painters cannot control their creations, you absolute moron.
If they could, they would've been 0 expedition since every single expeditioner is Aline's creation.

Agreed. Writing hooked me hard in the first two acts. The whole mystery surrounding the Paintress, Renoir, exploring the world, the grim fatalism of all the previous expeditions

Then Act 3 hits and it goes to shit. I really wish we just stuck in the world instead of "family tragedy bad"

What needs explaining? You talk to people number go up.

The only characters I liked were Sciel, Gustave, Lune and Renoir. Maelle and Verso can eat multiple dicks, the piano will be played.

Escapism bad, deal with it

doing post-game

They don't feel like people anymore...

She already proves she can after they get erased though. Only reason she couldn't recreate everyone immediately was because she didn't have the chroma to do so, once she does she recreates everyone in her ending. no reason to believe that she COULDN'T do it in her own painted world. I just don't think she would try to mimic one of Verso's works out of respect, which Monoco and Esquie are (though Clea might've also had a hand in that)

It appears as one of the loading screen tips.
Anyway, if you missed them is on you for not playing the game and not engaging with the story.

I think it would be more interesting if Aline came to terms with her friend and HELPED Renoir in the final fight instead of helping Alicia.

She wants cock

So was Gustave meant to be a painted version of someone special or was he just a random gigachad who invented a weapon to kill the Demiurge out of nowhere

Dude, americans can only reason in terms of black and white or good and bad, of course they are chimping out over two endings which are far more complex than these superficial concepts

A person's chroma obviously corresponds to a specific person. That is why she finds Lune's and Sciel's specific chroma so that she can recreate them.
That is why she can create an army of expeditioners to fight for her. She is simply restructuring people from their chroma. But if the canvas is gone then so is the chroma so she doesn't have anything to go on.

problem is that it doesn't work as an escapism bad story because it also wants you to care about the other world and empathize with its inhabitants desire to not be erased.

Verso ending is fucked up because it means Maelle will remain a virgin forever cos no one wants to fuck a burned bitch. Maelle ending she already has a son

Some theorize he was some reincarnation of Simon but I think it works better that the people of Lumiere work and toil against impossible odds to eventually create something that helps them.

She can't recreate people from their stagnant chroma, which is why they're shades. once she has total power over all the chroma in the canvas in it's purest form, she can recreate anyone, and does so. I don't think she dove to the bottom of the ocean to revive Sciel's hubby

Do the painters even have the ability to directly control the actions of the inhabitants? I was under the impression that they just created them, maybe give them a specific personality and look if they're first generation, but after that they have free will.
Why would Verso be crying while playing the piano if he wasn't conscious of his desire to end it all and Alicia's misguided addiction and that she's going to die? If he was being directly controlled he would act like nothing wrong happened which is the way Alicia wanted him to act. He's sad because he was painted again and is forced to go on with the charade, and also because Alicia is going to die soon and he can't do anything about it this time, but he's not a literal puppet.

Child wants to escape to Berlin and do heroin there

My solution? Nuke Berlin.

Maelle ending she already has a son

Fucking retard that was one of Gustave's students

fully agree with Verso in the end

have to live with the decision and having to see Lune's cold judgemental soul piercing stare into your soul

have to live with the fact you killed the two genuine and innocent best bros Monoco and Esquie

live with the memory of seeing your group wave goodbye at the end

Feels bad man.
It's also funny throughout the entire game, I wished Gustave was in the adventure with us or hoping there's some way to bring him back, only to actually get that in Maelle ending and it just felt hollow.
I grieved, accepted his death and said goodbye to Gustave during his burial scene. I needed to let him go.

Fuck that entire family of God playing psycopaths, she deserved to live for than all of them. So the canvas stays and hope the Dessendres get lynched IRL.

this also destroys any chance for a meaningful sequel because now everyone knows from the start that its not real
when the inevitable sequel comes out everyone will know that its probably a story from the "writers" or another painted world and not give a fuck about anything that happens because there arent any stakes

She recreates them, they are after all all wearing expeditioner gear. It's just that they aren't fully formed people. More like spectrals.

Do the painters even have the ability to directly control the actions of the inhabitants?

I think so given Simon and Painted Clea. The Axons also act exactly as Renoir designed them to based on Alicia's axon

Obviously escapismfags didn't pay attention to what Monoco said when Noco died: That he could be bought back to life sure, but he would not be the Noco they knew.

That thing happened in the Maelle ending, she's a despicable demiurge

Why is everyone pretending this isn't the story of nier but with a literal fresh coat of paint? Ah right, you dipshits don't actually play games.

How foolish of me

yeah, but both simon and clea have to be made into weird ghoul creatures for that to work, and it's implied that clea as she originally was is still in there and takes action to suicide.

the axons and nevrons are different, i think.

You can still have stakes Clea or whoever just needs to get trapped in a writer’s newspaper or something

Yeah because Chroma is the factor, and the chroma she harvested for her army was stagnant. Renoir says they pushed the very boundaries of creation with their powers, no reason to believe someone couldn't re-create something from one painting to another.

I do play games. I just don't play games that have anime weeb aesthetic like Nier and Persona and whatnot.

she's a despicable demiurge

Now say that again, slowly

Then why are Sciel and Lune the exact same Sciel and Lune we knew?

i think that's a unique property of gestals anon, they lose their memories instead of dying for good.

but lune and sciel have their memories and personality intact.

There's a clear difference between the human painted people and the monsters. And simon and clea looked fucked up to signal that they're being controlled.

This, but unironically.

The Dessendres are awful people. It's stated they have created hundreds of canvasses and just disposed of them once they get bored.

They are also awful to Alicia, and probably deserved getting firebombed by the Writers.

Sacred River operates on dead dog logic we’ve been over this

I think Simon was just ghouled up because he was so old and Clea didn't give him the same flavor of immortality that Verso was given considering she didn't create him with the idea of preserving the image of someone she lost. Painted Clea had the same greyscale stuff going on that painted Alicia had, with the eyes being the main indication of her possession.

Yes, Clea painted over canvas version but she does look different than normal. Maelle painting over Verso might be what is happening when it cuts to her but he is control, just wrecked with despair.

The characters still had sentience, thoughts, feelings, dreams, fears, grievances and more. Them being dealt a bad hand between a dysfunctional family doesn't detract from that. That said, a sequel will be a tough situation because there would be no greater twist or goal that can surprise us. It'd only work if it just focuses on the Painter vs Writer conflicts and them using all these created worlds as ammo against each other. I'd rather they move onto something new entirely though.

No you retard it’s literally Omori but good

yfw the sequel is Typing of Dead: Kill the Painters!

yfw the ending is "write a final fate for the Dessendres"

And simon and clea looked fucked up to signal that they're being controlled.

sure. still means painters can in fact directly control the inhabitants

If the chroma is a factor then how will she re-paint them in an other canvas?

use the weapon that applies max foretell with each sun attack, turns her into a fucking nuke

That said, a sequel will be a tough situation because there would be no greater twist or goal that can surprise us.

You literally can't do it without the writing being perceived as outright malicious.

So remember that horrible family of psycopaths that condemns entire worlds to oblivion for amusement? Remember when we made you care for those many people in Lumiere that were killed for their sake? Now we do it again! Except you know that the painted people have ZERO value to the Dessendres and caring for them more than a piece of paper you throw in the trash means you're morally failing and "escapist"

The only viable sequel is a game playing as Writers and killing them off

The fuck you think they're using to create other canvases bozo? Fingerpaints?

doesn't maelle say something about how clea is the only one good enough to do this?
and if we accept that looking fucked up is a pre-requisite for this happening, doesn't that mean everyone in maelle's ending isn't being controlled?

yes and yes. I even said as much in my first post on this subject

Simon and Painted Clea were very clearly being puppeted by a painter for example. I don't think Alicia is puppeting them however.

There is already a sequel to E33 you can play right now, playing as the Modders.

it is kind of foreshadowed with Maelle being the one with the most potential with The Reacher, that eventually she will surpass even Clea. I think that ambiguity is intentional.

he should be praising it, this is the greatest cultural export France has had this century

greentext

That'd kind of be the point. Painters and Writers weave worlds into being and snuff them out at leisure, it'd have a different tone entirely as we'd likely be weaponizing our creations against whoever we're facing, with the implications being very bleak.

they did, he didn't want to paint anymore

why couldn't the series be like bioshock in that certain themes remain but each game is distinct narratively

misguided platitudes about the upper planes

Very Gnostic. Except you have no hope of escaping the material world since the demiurge is a bitch

Painted Verso did, it was a Dessendre affair.

Because it's ruined now that you know the worldbuilding.

oh so these people are paitned/written, this means that the in-universe demiurges will readily kill them unless balls deep into escapism, they don't matter

If the game punishes you for caring for them the first time, it won't work again without the big reveal

because they wanted the fake world twist and I think this will come back haunting them

Verso literally BEGGING in Maelle's ending

Can't we please just praise Ben Starr absolute banger fucking performance? I hated Verso but even then hearing him not wanting that life actually struck me to my core.
I swear if he doesn't get nominated or win the game awards for best performance then something is horribly wrong.
Really makes me wanna play FF16 now since he was in that game.

You reverse the roles and get Clea to care about a world she has no overtly sentimental attachment to ez

will readily kill them unless balls deep into escapism

I don't think this is true, in fact the only reason the canvas is in any danger at all is because people are balls deep into escapism. if Aline could cope without endangering herself the painting would not be in any danger at all.

Nah it'd be Clea or the Painters dying to save one last painting. They pour everything they have into this last work, hide it and fight the war against the Writers.

The Dessendre family all embodies various stages of grief:

The mother is denial
Renoir is bargaining
Clea is anger
Alicia is depression
Verso is acceptence

The movie will be a retelling that sets up a "true" synthesis of both endings into one that will lead to the sequel.

Nice I hate it already

i didnt do sciel camp scenes till act 3 it was exact same

time flows slower in the canvas

Implying you wouldn't join the Pleasure Cube and spend each real life day as a month with your perfect waifu just absolutely having a loving and peaceful life together every single day.

Did I just brick myself out of a skill and achievement by lying to Maelle?

Maelle died in act 2. Alicia is larping in act 3. She is NOTHING like the girlnwe followed in act 1 and 2.
I hate that we have to choose her to save the Canvas world because she doesn't deserve shit. She is a vile bitch.

Yea

no you can reload

They did my boy dirty. Maybe that Daredevil fuck got too busy or expensive so they had to kill him off.
There's literally no speaking lines or anything once he's gone. Sucks. I liked him

for those who cost less

Verso cucking him and fucking everyone on the team made me seethe a little bit not gonna lie.
He even got some splinters on his dick.

They should have just made him like Alice. Have a horrible accident that causes him to not be able to speak. Would have been a kino parallel

Maybe that Daredevil fuck got too busy or expensive so they had to kill him off.

Gameplay wise the fact he doesn't come back on the 3d act to become the 3rd reserve team member that you can use on the post game content pretty much confirm this for me.
Story wise it's the fact that Alicia doesn't even try to revive him as soon as possible despite knowing she can revive people as a painter. Also in her ending everyone is conveniently silent.
Expensive voice actors suck.

cast her in the movie

convinced people who think a life to paint is the good ending are just baiting. or american. remember when they got the director of i am legend to change the ending because they got their feelings hurt? such sensitive little assholes.

Hopefully now they got enough money to bring him back in the inevitable Clea DLC

There are complex reasons to support either and this reductionism goes nowhere, everyone is more intelligent than this.

bringing my nigga Gustave back only to realize he got double NTRed

He deserves better than this

she looks even better in the nude mod

everyone is more intelligent than this.

after reading this thread? lmao.

lune?

Killing all the Dessendres for her.

a life to life is the good ending.
no i'm not on verso's side, i'm on maelle's. she's a stupid little girl, she's using escapism to run and hide from her grief. renoir hits the nail on the head every time. she needs to come home, with her mother, so they can all grieve this passing together as a family instead of running away from it at the risk of their own health.

Renoir is the actual MC

Is it the best for the family? Yes.
But I want them to suffer so I'm not picking that.

Sex

For Gustave.

Anti-escapism is one of the most common themes in persona

R8 my idea for a sequel

Takes Place in the Real Lumiere

Game follows a Members of The Writers as he tries to create in Opus while navigating the clusterfuck of guild politics.

Unlike the Painters, Writers can influence the thoughts and feelings of others through their writings.

In the matter he is joined by his childhood friend and young apprentice as they gather up more people over time (one is a masked fencer who is actually Alicia)

The Act two shift is that during a big event where open war breaks out between the Guilds the young apprentice unlocks the power of Film allowing one to draw "recorded" moments out of peoples memory and project them to happen again in real time.

The Opus is retooled into a screenplay and to get it done will require the collaboration of multiple guild members doing stuff like going into a painted world for special effects and dealing with actors (who may have their own guild) and engaging with weavers for costumes.

The snag is that the movie come to symbolize a way forward where the guild can collaborate, however it is to effective at influencing people and so is a dangerous tool that if the film is a success it will be used as the basis for a new era of propaganda, in the early 20th century...

So on the debut night, after a temporary ceasefire between the guilds has been established you pick between the Master or Apprentice over if the film will be burned or not.

He's probably going to demand more muslim and niggers in the sequel

So this game is literally FFTA

Not a bad idea. Although how will they handle manufactured worlds and their inhabitants being treated as disposable toys by the "real world"? Just don't have painted characters appear at all?

Yes
Verso deserved it for being a little shit throughout the entire game and letting Gustave die, play the piano for eternity boy.
Also I ain’t performing a genocide an entire world just to save some family of schizos who aren’t functional to begin with.

Maelle or Verso

The majority of the main cast doesn't care about them except for Alicia who while having grown and accepted what happened as for the best still is basically the biggest advocate.
The game would as have a clone conundrum with the Film Power.
Ironically the writers despite being the more weak in direct situations (and thus the most subtle) cannot make other living being, just influence the minds of others which is its own shitshow.

'fraid so.

Maelle is the canon one. As stated by everything in the game and the OST. But the alternate ending is good too.

OST

What are you referring to?

Its either a sctizo or baiter that uses the placement of one song at the end of the OST as justification for Alicia ending being cannon.
I'm 90% sure he is taking both and and trying to take the piss out of people who use the cinematography of the endings to prove a point.

who use the cinematography of the endings to prove a point.

Fucking dark souls did this forever ago, it's irrelevant stylistic choices. Both endings are bad for someone.

She did nothing wrong.

I don't give a shit about her and Verso saving Lumiere is what Gustave would have wanted so that's what I did

I'm not attracted to her in the slightest but that face model is genuinely built to be smeared with cum in some animation, I don't know why.

Maelle.

So painted Renoir is the one who tried to kill the visage axion right? thats why verso mentioned its injured and Renoir has that mask attack?

NOOOOOOOO NOT THE PIANOOOOOOOOO

The family needs to die, Maelle and they get assassinated by WriterGODS.

You are a incel creep, yeaks.

Alicia is the first song of the OST (also the main theme)
Maelle is the last song of the OST (translated main theme)
She is canon. Her choice is canon. Now cope.

Wow, glowing chroma eyes. Must be bad.

Maelle ending would be good if only she doesnt control verso and force him to live. The man wants to die just let him.

Verso Renoir and a few expedition groups tried to take on the Axions before.

It's better to save one family of psychopaths than it is to save a world of innocents

What's wrong with the French

One of the best fights in the game, aling with Renoir 2.

Unfortunately, I "broke" the game in Act 3 and everything became a mere push over.

They gave it all pretty colours and light so you ignore that they're still unrepentant demiurge murderers on a massive scale and happy with it

Damage cap should have been 99,999 until beating the story and then 999,999

Without memeing, how can people possibly think this ending is good? Even Maelle herself isn't happy in the ending, she's stonefaced when Verso shows up and is even crying. Her smiles for everyone else are fake.

Agreed. I often see autists here screeching about moral ambiguity in fiction with no defined color coded black and white to tell them how to feel. It's like their brains short circuit at the slightest pivot to abstract or critical thinking. This is what I love about Expedition 33's ending. There is no correct choice. Only "cruel" choices based on what the player wishes to save at the sacrifice of something else. Even in my own creative writing for my indie projects, I loathe giving "golden ends" or routes because I realize retards will run away with "THIS IS CANON" when I go out of my way to make sure there is no defined "correct" answer. Sandfall did the same here, and Anon Babble is having a stroke processing this is not a black and white topic. Maybe they really should stick to cape shit and Saturday morning cartoons.

if only she doesnt control verso and force him to live. The man wants to die just let him.

Verso getting off easy like that after everything he pulled would not be a good ending

B-b-but it's black and white CLAIR OBSCUR

Their either

Simp for Lune

Hate Verso and the Painters and want them to suffer

Resent being told escapism is bad

Resent the game for Bait and Switching them

Care more about the hypothetical citizens of the Painting over everything else (few people actually think this way but they use it as a cudgel because the other reasons seem petty and they know it)

Clea, you can stop, your "things" are just burden us now.

Is she controlling him and forcing him to play the piano in the end? He stops before playing looking scared/worried then Maelle gets the paint power effect around her eyes while looking at him and he starts playing.
What a creepy bitch.

The devs failed in that regard, it definitely felt like they were playing favourites when it came to the endings. If you take two grey endings but then portray one with positive framing and one with negative framing, of course people are start going to see it in black and white.

>Resent being told escapism is bad

This is most of it. They don't understand why its not healthy to literally die just to escape reality. And it makes them angry.

I agree with three of these points genuinely. Except I hate Maelle along with Verso.

three point landing

we marvel now

You're just projecting. Most arguments I've seen revolve around not wanting the Dessendres to get away with murder.

turn the painted version of you who was living a happy life with her bf into a mindbroken broodmare for nevrons

what did clea mean by this?

I wonder if Verso hates Maelle at this point.