For those who come after
For those who come after
The last stand of Expedition 33
Those who come after will never be as tired of these shill threads as me
Actually, it was all in le head
Tomorrow cums
Sexpedition 69
For those who cum after
Monoco is best boy
yep nothing but shills arguing with each other in threads that hit bump limit daily
outside if Maelle character arc, Gustave’s death wasn’t necessary
16 year old girl
has the height of a 12 year old girl
you'd be very shocked to know how tall people were in the 1900s
Uohhh
jumps party
has banger fight theme that only plays once in the game
refuses to elaborate
joins party
I'll miss you guys
;-;
Cuckstave
It's even more kino when she just sits on the ground afterwards and forces Verso to destroy the canvas while she watches
I just got the "esquie breaks coral" ability, how much longer until I unlock the break damage cap ability that obviously exists somewhere
I'm sick of all these superbosses where I attack then for 9999 and it doesn't even do a pixel of their lifebar. stop fucking with me
has banger fight theme that only
Not true! It plays again in one of the relationship ranks with Verso
After Act 2.
This depends on if you were a farmer on grain diet or a hunter on meat diet.
You get the damage cap ability at the end of Act 2
You've got like, 3 more dungeons to go from where you're at, and that's if you don't do any side stuff (there's an optional dungeon in that section too)
For those other AA devs who come after and make gud games
She lives, the evil demiurge french fucks suffer, simple as.
Kill countless innocents
Oh but these two random shmucks will have a slightly easier time processing a family members death
I guess this highlights the modern Western mindset of "fuck everyone else, got mine, no such thing as society". Now the west is falling because oh look at that, turns out Man is a social organism and once you inevitably run out of other people to throw under the bus there is no one left to keep you alive.
He would've gotten the true end where Maelle gets kicked out of the painting and Verso gets to die but the painting is kept alive.
Monoco is the name of the developer's dog
Song starts with "BOW WOW-WOW.
game bad not gib me updoots please saaaaars
it does not get more soul than this honestly
We need the true ending where it shows the hidden canvas in the real world, and an unknown expeditioner appears, and all you can tell is
mechanical left arm
Kill countless innocents
Those are not real people.
wrong
Anon. The Verso choice is about accepting death and moving on rather than recycling the past in a perpetual lie. Verso, both the soul kid painting and the man you've known, don't want to keep going. Everyone else already died, they are not alive, they are going to be repainted 'ideas' made by Maelle, but in the actual people already Gommaged.
You don't pick the Verso ending for Maelle's or Renoit's sake, you pick it for Verso. The strongest argument against the ending has nothing to do with the French aristocrats, but actual characters like Monoco and Esquie. The ghosts of Lune and Sciel are just that. Spectres.
Lmao it takes a while still.
Beat 3 superbosses that took around 20-30 minutes chipping away at their massive healthbars with 9999 damage max
Was good shit though. Cool to be allowed to beat shit you're clearly not supposed to yet.
[headcanon directly refuted by the game]
they are going to be repainted 'ideas' made by Maelle
Anyone not killed by nevrons can be brought back like Lune/Sciel.
Curious which you think would make you be taller, but either choice is obviously completely retarded bullshit since that's not at all how size/growth is determined.
No argument but I will claim you're wrong based off absolutely nothing!
I accept your concession.
Yes. As Maelle's creations, the fact remains that the dead had died.
Remember everyone, the game is called Clair Obscur: Getting over grief with the Dessendre family. Not Clair Obscur: Expedition 33. Ignore act 1 with Gustave and Lumiere.
As Gustave always said: For those who came before to sacrifice all of those who will come after so their wife can go to therapy.
i wonder if clea intended that to happen when people eat nevrons. probably.
who controls the chroma controls the universe
Gustave and Sophie are a reference to Renoir and Aline.
Gustave was killed by "him" from the real world.
Yes. As Maelle's creations
They're still Aline's I think. Maelle is just bringing them back into a solid form, but it's the same chroma. She says "I can see them" when talking about their chroma. Lune talks about being able to feel Gustave's chroma. Lune/Sciel demonstably have knowledge Maelle does not after being brought back too.
damn i realized it betrays the themes but now it betrays the fucking title lmao
They don't have real free will when Maelle paints them though. You can literally see that when Verso is forced to play the piano.
Shut up Verso
We saw how well construct created by Clea and the Paintress adjusted, and Alicia is less skilled than either of them
Verso wants to die to the point he broke his original programming. Clea and Alicia construct basically wanted the same thing too. Even the remnant of original Verso’s soul is tired of maintaining the painting by the end of it
Renoir did nothing wrong, I hope he and Clea murder all those writers
Beside, bringing all those expeditioners back is gonna cause some internal issues in Lumiere, we already know that some expeditions are used to exile dissidents, even before the resource constraint unless they wanna start colonizing the continent
She repainted Lune and Sciel with their full memories of everything up to the current events.
So those two were essentially the same people.
But she used their residual Chroma to do it, in order to bring Gustave back, she would need to paint him from scratch like Aline did with her fake family, they were mostly the same, but still kinda different from the real deal.
this is a classic example of the author not being able to support their own message given the rules of the world they've built, and subsequently having to create an outside meta excuse to "force" what they consider the "correct" answer without actually addressing the issue. Which just makes the bad ending feel fake and "illegitimate" to the audience because they know the real question was sidestepped via author fiat.
For a famous example, think how Final Fantasy Tactics Advance can't actually come up with a coherent argument for why the children must go back to their horrible circumstances or why Ivalice is a bad place, and so has to make up an excuse that their life forces are being drained if they stay. Or for another example everyone loves to meme about, Persona 5. Where rather than addressing the actual question of the merits of a world without suffering, they instead have to make Maruki a flawed ignorant wellspring of the power, again avoiding actually addressing the question.
You can't ask "Is X or Y better?" but then declare that if you pick Y a meteor will destroy earth for unrelated reasons and expect the audience to accept your argument for X
Think back to what Verso says when Maelle is trying to bring back Lune and Sciel, and think about what that means for her bringing back the people she never actually met like Sciel's husband. Also think carefully about the horrific implications thereof.
In her ending, she also brings Verso back, someone who definitely and clearly doesn't want to be there but is then seen as more of a platonic ideal of Verso that Maelle clearly made up where he still happily goes to play the piano. They are not the people who died, not the people who Gommaged. They are ghosts brought to life by Maelle to live out a fantasy. You cannot save those who have passed.
It also plays when you fight Golgra in the floating arena (who is way easier than the first Golgra you meet for some reason).
Ah yeah sorry I forgot when in the scene with no dialogue Maelle said "I am controlling you and forcing you to play the piano".
I seen many different interpretations of the ending, that being one of them. Personally it makes no sense to me because we're never shown that painters can control painted people, if anything we're shown the opposite.
You can read into the endings in a lot of different ways. Like Gustave beckoning to Alicia with her family gone, you could interpret this as a sign that Maelle is going to lose herself in a canvas with a fake Gustave similar to Aline and Verso.
There's no evidence she can't get their chroma. Anyone not killed by a nevron is fair game I think (it's mentioned the chroma of people killed by nevrons is "impure" which means they aren't the same). Sciel asks if she can bring back the others like them and Maelle says she can if she has the chroma.
simon attacks at lightspeed
Yes, Verso ending is what encapsulates Gustave's ideals of leaving your legacy for those who come after.
Maelle, instead of clingling to the past, needs to commit the memories of her friends and her adventures to heart and move on to something bigger.
While Gustave if alive would do anything to get what Maelle wanted, its due to his overprotective nature, which is similar to Renoir's, so he would gladly betray his own ideals in order to protect her.
we're never shown that painters can control painted people
we literally are lol, Clea got fucked UP
When Gustave said "for those who come after" he was mainly thinking of his apprentices though...
And Maelle says "only Clea is skilled enough to paint over another painter's creation"?
I don’t know, while I know people shit on SO3 for the same reason, I think the twist was well written. Sucks that the world as we know it was fake and is on the chopping block, but when all is said and done, the metaphysics supporting the canvas was pretty much done after the 67 years of battle between Renoir, Clea and Aline using their painter power
if you talk about video games then you’re a shill
Kill your self, faggot.
Gustave was killed by painted Renoir, his chroma should still be there.
Then again, is his body solidified into paint if you go back to the lampmaster boss room at the cliffs?
She is definitely forcing him to play by Painting the scene as him playing the piano
Simon. Clea. A bunch of superboss characters are literally described as "x got to y" to very much state that indeed, a painter has taken control of them.
There is no evidence she can't get their chroma
Not the point. Even with their Chroma Maelle still needs to know who they are. Remember also that the expeditioners she does revive to assault Lumiere are the way they are because THEIR chroma is old, and again imagine what that actually means for characters like Gustave or worse, Sciel's husband.
For me, Sciel was one of the main reasons to go for Verso's ending.
Writers should kill them all
I think the problem here is that people are reading into the overt tone of the ending too much.
I don't think either one is supposed to be a "good ending". One is overtly hopeful, and subtly ominous. And the other one is overtly ominous, and subtly hopeful.
always thought this nigga was coming back because he had locked talents but it turns out those are for ng+ or something
/thread
I think aging Verso was Painted by Maelle after she took his chroma, and thus is somewhat her creation.
Gustave was killed by painted Renoir, his chroma should still be there.
that's what Nevrons do, bodies killed by Renoir disappear they explained this in the game
paintedVerso turned to dust. She then resurrects him (no scar) for no fucking reason.
Saving the Lumerians and giving Verso rest weren't mutually exclusive
She is definitely forcing him to play by Painting the scene as him playing the piano
Painters can't do that though. I think the only real explanation for "Maelle controlling him" would be if he's a whole new painted Verso, which makes sense considering he's old and has no scar. Still, with what we know of painted people, he wouldn't be directly controlled in that case.
Maelle says "I can see them", Lune says "I can feel Gustave's Chroma". It seems like they could certainly find the people's chroma.
the expeditioners she does revive to assault Lumiere are the way they are because THEIR chroma is old
Old and impure, not just old, which could certainly be a nevron thing.
Aline paints the babies into existence
Everyone is basically just a fake Verso
Nobody is real
Maelle fags will still cope by saying they saved everyone
Lmao.
Honestly I think the game is overrated and the writing, very, very hit and miss and not worth much praise but they totally nailed painted Renoir's aura
From the design to his complete silence for several scenes to the chilling sound effect that plays every time he hits his cane on the ground...brilliant
Is there any evidence that Aline is doing this for every new child, or is it just Alicia?
Its because they died to Nevrons and their chroma was left sitting in their corpse instead of free-flowing through the painting version of the lifstream. Still water versus a river.
Aline literally goes "who the fuck are you" when attacked by Sciel or Lune. So they're a byproduct of the original Lumerians Aline painted, not directly painted by her
What is this cope lmao. Her face is literally melting with painted powers when Verso is forced to paint.
And the other one is overtly ominous, and subtly hopeful.
How is Maelles ending in anyway hopeful? Its literally sinister and depressing. It doesn't even celebrate the lives of Lumiere being saved.
That's expedition 60 actually I kek'd hardily at the utter mogging Rebirth got even here. Remember the bow wow wow song from Rebirth? PATHETIC
youtu.be
youtu.be
(honestly it's SOVL, both are SOVL)
Imagine the first playing as you fought Monocco
And Monocco is ALICIA'S dog who you can see in the manor in act 2 ending
Why the fuck is videogame writing so bad when it's the biggest financial entertainment market in the world? This game has even the slightest bit of decent characters and story and it's like a godsend in the videogame world. Games are praised for their writing when they just rip off the absolute most basic surface level popular philosophy from books. I'm not even complaining, that is still usually head and shoulders above what videogames provide so it IS refreshing.
But why is it like this? Why can't studios ever seem to shell out like 1 or 2 more positions to write a fucking story that's halfway decent before sinking tens of millions of dollars into a project with a narrative that will make people invested and remember it?
I fucked that up. Means that since Painted Renoir is just a super powered Lumiere human and not a Nevron, so him killing Gustave should mean that Gustave's chroma flows back into the canvas instead of fester in his solidified corpse like when you die to a Nevron.
Ancient battlefield zone took me back to the haunted battlefield in The Witcher 2 Act 2.
Because video games are a joke medium that is used as an unironic manipulation grounds by mentally ills. Trannies aren't tolerated in any medium like they are in games. Nobody with good education get into games. Good writing. Elden Ring had GRRM write the napkin scribbles for it and has about as good of a written story (lore and world building rather) as this does (story / world building). Everything else is incredibly amateur. Not trying to kick low hanging fruit but just look at Veil guard. That is abysmal. Embarrassing. And people defend it hardly and seriously.
Because it has to sell. Good writing can't be neutered shit, it's inherently divisive and you take the risks of alienating the most retarded consumer base in all media
Excellent posts. Is it really the writers trapping themselves into the implications of their own worldbuilding and trying to weasel out with overtly moralizing cinematography at the very end?
You mean piano? Idk when I first watched the ending I interpreted that as her turning into what Aline was on top of the monolith, and Verso's hesitation being about his realization she is dying and he can't help her. Then he plays the piano because all he can do is make her happy while she dies.
How is all of the people being back alive not celebrating that? Showing us Gustave, Pierre, Sophie, and Gustave's apprentices.
Also one thing I forgot in the whole "can people be brought back as they are" thing is that Lune's parents aren't there. They were expeditioners, killed by nevrons. They couldn't be brought back like Lune/Sciel. Another piece of evidence that Maelle was only bringing people back who didn't die to nevrons using their chroma.
Play it again, Johnny Guitar
We know that when painters strain and use their powers, they get that weird ink staining their faces. It's pretty obvious she was actively using her powers there and Verso was the only target.
Like I said, weird cope lil bro.
he thinks Clair Obscur is even a dent in the video game market
You are correct that Video games are the biggest financial entertainment market in human history.
But wrong as to WHY that is
it's gacha microtransactions and not the story. Story is no factor
Man I know this slop basket weaving forum despised it but Silent Hill 2 remake genuinely had astonishing acting, at least James. Probably the best acting in a game I'd had felt. But multiple people in this game were far and away better. I am genuinely astonished. I feel like this is the first next Gen game graphics wise outside of fucking demon souls, man.
most of the expeditioners at the battlefield were killed by Dualliste if you believe Verso
Why didn't Clea just paint Dualliste a bunch of times?
that's definitely not how painting works, there isn't such a thing as a "byproduct"
they are either painted by someone or not
but it doesn't mean Aline painted them, Renoir and Clea are fully capable of creating Lumerians themselves
shit, there's good reason to believe that paintedClea can paint them as well despite her imprisonment
The Reacher explains Maelle will surpass Clea and abuse her power. What you can expect from her ending.
Reacher and Hauler are so lame
Why are they always so dirty? They were already covered in filth in the intro sequence before even embarking on the expedition. Is this really the French standard of hygiene?
I thought the Lumieran were painted by Verso as part of his playground
My understanding is that
Verso painted the world as a child to live his adventure with Monoco and Esquie, also there is Lumiere too I guess
Artist vs Writer conflict killed Verso and scarred Alicia
Clea goes to war, Aline went into grief and went into Verso’s painting and painted her family with Verso, still kept Alicia all burned and fucked because lol
Renoir wasn’t dealing with his wife effectively dead to the world, and tried to get her back
2 gods fighting effectively caused the fracture and fucked up the painting
Clea helped Renoir by creating the Nevrons and painting over her construct that was created by Aline
Aline sealed Renoir under the Monolith and Clea’s construct on her dungeon
at some point Verso’s construct went AWOL, presumably when Maelle was born
pissed off Renoir sealed under the Monolith just used his power to destroy the canvas, manifests as yearly gommage
We know that painters get that on their faces from overstaying in the canvas, not straining and using their powers. The only time we've seen that is on Renoir/Aline in the real world after staying too long in the canvas, and Clea when she was leaving after being in the canvas for ~30 years.
We haven't seen it on any painters using their powers in the canvas before, but we have seen that Aline had her whole face collapse after >100 years in the canvas and being starved of chroma in her battle against Renoir with nevrons preventing her from recycling lumierians. This looks like the early stages of face collapse.
Yes, this pretty much nails it on the head. The writers wanted to make a point about refusing to confront your grief and retreating into isolationism and all that jazz, but could not square that message with the fact that they wrote the people of the painting as being fully sentient conscious human beings who would appreciate not being genocided. So the entire ending dilemma falls apart under the barest ethical scrutiny.
if you ignore the part where I'm wrong, then I'm right
Lumerians were having babies and growing old you damn autists.
They weren't being gommaged and re-painted older every now and then. We literally see babies and Lumerians having sex
How is all of the people being back alive not celebrating that? Showing us Gustave, Pierre, Sophie, and Gustave's apprentices.
I think being in black and white and looking awkward robbed us of any celebration bro. The whole thing was weird.
Because dirty Lune footjobs is a selling point of the game. It says right on the back of the case.
Anon. The ending explicitly shows Verso straining to keep his hands closed in rebellion. Then Alicia engages her paint powers and his hands open. It is a very clear and bleak depiction of her using her powers to control him.
They're constantly covered in (new people's) blood because people die constantly die around them
2 points you're missing.
The gommage is Renoir erasing Aline's creations and gommage is only affecting Lumerians and nothing else.
Maelle is 16 years old and there has been 67 expeditions.
Clea painted over Verso
I don't see "straining to close his hands" here. To me it was displaying how obviously aged his hands are and he's reflecting on that. The fact that he's no longer immortal and is now old was a big thing here.
101 billion dollars for gacha shit
we've failed as a society
Yes, I was thinking this myself as well
- buy an ad.
The only "painted over" people we see though are very visibly fucked up from it though and not really mentally there.
but it doesn't mean Aline painted them, Renoir and Clea are fully capable of creating Lumerians themselves
The story states that Aline's creations getting destroyed by order of when she created them is what the countdown on the obelisk actually means, and once they end Aline, allowing Renoir to run roughshod on the canvas, he erases every person that Aline created, which just happens to be the Lumerians. That's why Gestrals and Nevrons aren't affected by the gommage, they were made by Verso and Clea respectively.
What is this game even about
Why would I need to when ehrrs roughly 10k posts a day ez on e33 for free?
No, her USING HER FUCKING PAINT POWERS followed by his hands being wrested open isn't subtle, dude. He begs to die and she resurrects him. He doesn't want to play the fucking piano and she forces him to. How are you denying something this obvious?
Mongolians have eaten nothing but horse meat and horse milk for thousands of years and they mogg the fuck out of itty bitty Japanese sumos in their own sport.
Cute 16 year old girls and older white haired men deflowering people and taking their innocence. Unironically. With the message that women are emotionally akin to toddlers
versofags making up headcanon to fit their narrative
Ohnonono
Clea helped Renoir by creating the Nevrons and painting over her construct that was created by Aline
Clea made the Nevrons as things for kid Verso and Monoco to have adventures against. She says as much in the Infinity tower, stating that she had been playing with Verso in the painting back when Maelle was disinterested and had her head in books.
Verso fags lie to themselves more than Verso lies to everyone else
Personally it makes no sense to me because we're never shown that painters can control painted people
You didn't play the game.
This makes no sense. Maelle is younger than verso by like 12 years you retard.
After seeing both endings I'm frankly shocked anyone can deny Alicia's the more wicked and cruel. Verso showed genuine resolve and despair in doing what had to be done. And it led to some form of resolution and closure. Alicia's zombie world and torture of Verso is fucked.
Again, we're never shown that's a sign of using paint powers. It's more shown as a sign of overstaying in the canvas.
Have you ever considered that he might have just... opened his hands? It doesn't show special paint powers forcing them open. Again it looks to me like he's nervous and it's also showing how his hands are far more aged and he's noticing that.
I think that something happens, there's the tiny lights he notices and they seem to have significance before he starts to play. IMO the best theories for that is that it's parts of Maelle as she starts to die, but also that Renoir has seen that Maelle is dying IRL and lit the canvas on fire and those are floating embers.
Maellefags ignore facts and choose to cherrypick lorebits
Versofags face facts and choose to create headcanons
Jung would have a field day with Expedition 33 threads
She wasn’t attempting subtlety with those
Verso painted Esquie and Monoco.
Aline painted in an idealized version of the manor and its surrounds (Paris, Eiffel) as Lumiere, pretty sure.
Really Painted Clea and Simon fucked everything up by causing the fracture when Simon killed the Axon holding Lumiere on its back. Not sure why they did that. Maybe it was an Axon Renoir painted that was going to body slam Lumiere into a mountain and kill everyone at once.
Don't look at me, that's literally what Clea said. She even says that the expeditioners are the ones that came up with the name Nevron, not her.
I like the meta of Maelle fags vs Verso fags ngl
I, a Renoir Chad (both), sit on the side for now.
I got a feeling either Aline or Clea was fucking Verso by the amount of seething passive aggressive hatred both of them had for Alicia
Did you not play the fucking game or see what painters are capable of when DIRECTLY INTERACTING with the painted? Simon? Clea? Painted Alicia? Anon, you're as full of shit as Alicia. Verso is being tortured.
Except it also undermines their own message, you can't just have a trolley problem and rugpull it by declaring one of the tracks to have actually always been empty all along, it's incredibly unsatisfactory.
Axon Clea's death is how Lumiere got separated from the continent. From there real Renoir and Verso manipulated the narrative about the Paintress so they believe they need to kill her.
Clea is pretty big brain
Good
I, a Renoir Chad (both), sit on the side for now.
spend 67 subjective years to stop his wife from being a shut-in
now he gets to see his daughter do the same fucking thing
lmao renoirfags on suicide watch
The functionality of solidifying corpses and trapping chroma was made to stop Aline. Lumiere didn't even exist when Clea created Lampmaster for Verso.
Verso is being tortured
Lmao literally making up shit
Yeah but only one renoir disagrees with that
I, a Renoir Chad (both), play both sides as convenient to me. 2hsyy
You are both dumbfucks. You literally fell for the colored ending/black and white ending trap. Canvas being real place with real people adds another layer of tragedy to both endings. It doesn't take away from the story. It's not just good ending vs bad ending. You got conditioned by hollywood and slop flicks to believe the should be either a good or bad outcome in any situation. In e33 both endings are good and bad in their own ways and that's what it makes it kino.
Simon and Clea were painted over, something we're told only Clea can do to other painter's creations. They are visibly painted over and mentally fucked due to it. Unsure what you're referring to with Painted Alicia.
The only thing we're shown painters can do is gommage people really.
I guess you could count creating someone in a certain way, but this isn't actively controlling them. Like how painted Renoir says he was made to have Aline's grief for Verso.
Maelles ending is literally the bad ending and Versos ending is literally the good ending.
Reacher part literally says Maelle is going to "surpass" (fall) more than Clea
just think why the fuck would maelle want to have the canvas destroyed when she has no voice and one eye with a burnt face irl
shes just gonna go back to another painting anyway and i doubt her mother is gonna move on anytime soon and continue to hate her disabled painter daughter
That still doesn't really mean that Clea made the Nevrons to help Renoir, just that she changed them to have that function. Basically, she didn't make an acid shooting watergun, she took an existing watergun and modified it to shoot acid.
I am literally agreeing with you, the problem is the devs don't. They really wanted to push one ending being "better" than the other and tried to force it with very blatant emotion inducing cinematography and completely ignoring the implications of both actions.
you dumdums fell for the color theory psyop. Just because Red evokes a feeling of danger and eyecatching and Green sticks out doesn't mean one is stop and one is go! Both colors mean stop and go
Anon, going against societal conventions and common interpretations is dangerous levels of autism
what was lampmasters function again?
t. color blind
Yeah, I feel like Painted Clea fucked everything up for Renoir before True Clea could stop her and Simon.
True Renoir / Axon Clea were probably going to game over Lumiere right then and there and it ended in The Fracture. I do wonder why Clea painted Simon to go sit in a hole. Maybe she couldn't Paint him to go do anything else because he was too strong even though she was able to permanently mind control her painted self to Paint Nevrons alone in the flying tower forever.
Retarded take.
How do magic painters create worlds? In the first place?
Probably with magic shit you know nothing about and so your entire take is dogshit.
Verso’s ending had him told her with her painter power, she doesn’t have to live a life she doesn’t want
Verso basically told her to live her fantasy anywhere but this canvas, because he really just want to die
just think idk why my heroine addict mom won't stop using heroin
You'd kill your family if they needed your help. I lived this life. Kys pedo ginger cuck
boohoo I'm so tired of life I don't want to die
boohoo I don't want to live as a cripple I hate my life
boohoo I had an abortion so oblivion might as well take me
boohoo I cant live without my bitch wife
boohoo I need my painted plushie of my son and I'll kill myself for it
Is Lune the only one with a spine who actually wants to live? Fuck's wrong with you retards
Dude Maelle's ending was actually the good one!
Her bringing Verso back to life to force him to play the fucking piano despite the fact he clearly just wants to die is a good thing!
Also, a happy end for what are basically made up characters is way more important than dealing with real life issues!
Help kid Verso get over his fears
I see these threads continue to be just schizo falseflagging. Guess we can't hope the jannie will ever ban him since you all keep falling for the bait.
The way I see it,
Chroma is like a neutral medium for "magic painting" that lets a painter combine shape color and soul.
Shape is its own realm, as is color.
Soul is also a realm.
Painted beings are painted out of the well of souls.
So, painted beings are entirely real.
I can't find the part that specifically says this, but even if it does I still feel like that's several jumps to "Maelle has 100% unlocked a new painter power to actively control people and is using that here".
Like I don't mind the interpretation that she is controlling them, it's obviously MEANT to be interpreted in different ways. I just think it's silly to say "this is 100% what is happening it's a purely bad end".
what are basically made up characters
That's the problem, this doesn't make sense with how the game actually presents its story, those people are as good as real.
Alicia is MC so yes from her perspective the one when she moves on is better than the one where she spirals into delusions and derangement. It doesn't mean writers forgot about Lumiere dilemma. It's something up to you to decide. You are complaining writing doesn't spoonfeed you every implication and morality of YOUR choice.
Are you calling Sophie a bitch you whore
wanted to die
resurrected against your will to live anyway
not torture
even ignoring you two's back and forth, it's torture.
I think fake Clea was Simon’s lover or something, and real Clea tricked Simon into exiling himself into the abyss underneath the monolith instead of having an Axon killing gigachad as an asset for Aline
Simon's journal explains this IIRC. Basically he was too gigachad and broke out of Clea's mind control and went to kill Renoir, but Renoir was able to keep him at bay long enough that Clea's power could take back over and keep him stuck there.
I do wonder why Clea painted Simon to go sit in a hole
it's paintedClea who repainted Simon, explains why he's all fucked up because paintedClea doesn't have much painter powers to begin with, only what realClea gave her to function as Nevron factory
Simon sitting at the bottom of the abyss in Renoir's drafts makes sense... i mean, a creation made by another creation sounds like a straight up abberation that's not supposed to happen so Renoir fucking boxed it as deep as he could
honestly one way or another realClea giving her painted version the power to paint is a massively stupid idea
yeah i am confused how the people got made in the first place since its veros painting
where did the people come from? did the mom paint them in? like did she just make some generic people based off irl she knew or something and they ended up somehow fuckin eachother on the ant farm and all that?
like i am still confused about the mask viseage and sciel and the dancer with luna. dont know if theres supposed to be a connection with these expeditioners and the axons that were created for the family members.
Is Lune the only one with a spine who actually wants to live?
She wants to live because she never did. And I'm not talking in a "she's a painted person and painted people aren't real sense" I mean in her entire upbringing. She was a back-up plan for if her parents failed. She was a research assistant, not a daughter. She finally finished her parents fight so now she wants to try her hand at the whole having a life thing.
Without 16 years of life experience inside a new canvas (same amount of time she was alive in the real world), without kid Verso's soul trapped in that new canvas, and without the knowledge that it'll be burned as soon as she leaves, presumably she wouldn't get fatally attached to any new canvas and kill herself by overstaying.
What doesn't make sense exactly? Epilogue shows you Lumiere people being happy at the moment. It's only Dessendre family who are fucked. It's up to you to decide what you prioritise.
Yet the Mongols never conquered Japan, did they?
The Japanese are so based, just stop with the anime shit in games.
So is the "real evil" under the monolith Simon? I thought it was renoir and him being trapped. But he's not trapped. He's literally not lmao. I don't get it
Clea Aline, and Young Verso were gifted with the talent to create beings with genuine consciousness within the paintings . Aline was the most skilled thanks to her decades of experience, and that's why she was able to make the denizen of Lumiere who are no less human than people from the real world. Young verso created the Gestrals, Grandis, and Esquie, who are childlike with how whimsical they are or how they singlemindedly dedicate themselves, but they're no less remarkable than the painted people. Clea was also capable of creating life, with Francois being one of her creations, but because of the tragedy, she has decided that Verso's painting is an obstacle for her family, and begun to make nevrons with the singular purpose of killing a line's creations to trap the chroma she injected in them and prevent it from returning to her. The existence of white nevrons capable of introspection hint that Clea forcing herself to be a villain, and it's not her true nature.
Is the visage axon supposed to be Renoir or Verso?
Isn't the point she made him mortal so he can live a normal life, hoping he would find meaning in that and not be suicidal?
It also might not be the same Verso.
did the mom paint them in?
Yes, Aline made a copy of Lumiere as a backdrop for the painted family. But Aline is such a cracked painter that she made fully real people.
We never see another painter paint actual humans.
They are still made up characters. None of them are real people. Sure, you still care for them but "Life keeps forcing cruel choices" as Renoir said it.
It's not like the loss of all her friends and brother, as well as her guilt trauma for failing to save both, will disappear though. She was given no time to grieve the first loss before being hit with ten more of that plus a life lesson of "your efforts were meaningless".
So she probably will retard out.
the viseage mask axon is for verso
but for some reason sciel was the one to have a spotlight for it?
He is trapped. He's only able to astral project the Curator form which has no power of its own. He needs you to bring him tints and chroma to upgrade things. He needs the Axon chroma to make the barrier breaker. He guides Maelle to gommage painted Renoir rather than doing it himself.
That doesn't mean anything. They're just as real for themselves as we are for us.
As long as they have a consciousness, they have equal value. The """real world""" may not even be real.
And this is why she's genuinely the most tragic character in the story. Deserves your sympathy far more than some aristocratic cunts in a hell of their own making.
My guess is that the true Renoir were trapped under the monolith and he can only project himself as the curator in limited form until they defeat Aline
Yes, Aline made a copy of Lumiere as a backdrop for the painted family. But Aline is such a cracked painter that she made fully real people.
We never see another painter paint actual humans.
im just kinda thick headed about the backstories because my memory is fuzzy and the way things get put together is mostly end game stuff and puttin shit together. i JUST got done beating clea's thing and all I have left is the simon fight.
So the nevron sculptures you see around the manor all that were cleas and she was the one makin them?
and the gestals were all versos creations?
The """real world""" may not even be real.
December 33
and that's why she was able to make the denizen of Lumiere who are no less human than people from the real world.
Wrong. Humans can enter canvasses, painted people can't. Ergo painted people are lesser humans.
This is some XMEN mutant supremacy shit lmao
Yep. That's why I picked the Verso ending.
Alicia caused her own disfigurement. She doesn't get to hide away from the consequences of her actions.
I think that was about Renoir. Gustave only tried to roblox himself when he thought he was the sole survivor and his mission had failed, not when Sophie got GOMMAGED.COM
It's Renoir. I'll be honest I don't understand how The Curator works either. I guess its just a projection with a small amount of his power that leaked out, or it was built via chroma from all the Gommages.
okay, so about Sophie looking like Clea and Gustave missing an arm like Simon...
We don't even know how lmao
Fuck off
Alicia caused her own disfigurement.
Maybe very directly. I like the theory that based on the books/typewriters in Alicia's room, Alicia actually wanted to be a writer. The writers tricked her into doing something with writing that caused the fire, making her directly responsible for Verso's death. Makes a lot more sense why Aline would blame her.
Good writing is rarer than you think.
Video games are successful for many other factors, they don't need good writing to succeed. And if they do have decent writing, then it's a cherry on top that allows players to engage with the game on a deeper level.
Writing has a low bar of entry and filtering out the best writers from the masses isn't easy. Not to mention other factors that influence the final result like politics, nepotism or just plain old mass appeal.
when aliens come to harvest Earth I'll literally jump into the recycling vats myself because we're less advanced so deserve to die
cuck.
getting my ass handed to by the mime
Ok I’m hardly in and I know a lot of people are hype for souls like “”turn based”” rpgs but I don’t exactly look for reflex based gameplay when I’m playing a turn based anything. Would be better failing dodges or parries was a minor inconvenience but it seems like you HAVE to do well with this or die. At least in souls games I can put a shield up and study attack patterns to know when to roll or parry, but this feels like you have to eat shit in order to learn when to dodge, which is just not fun at all.
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
I finally managed to win but holy shit it took me at least 30 tries
there is no axonRenoir like there's no paintedAline. The Axons were
* Visage, he who hides truths with lies (Verso)
* Sirene, she who plays with wonder (Aline)
* Reacher, she who reaches for the stars (Alicia)
* ???, she who carries the world on her back (Clea)
Just because you have Chris-chan tier delusions and believe that your OC is actually real doesn't mean the real world has them too.
They were created (probably by Aline, but it doesn't matter), given a personality and thrn let loose. They are basically a more realistic version of the Sims. That doesn't mean they are real and that Maelle should run away from her problems and hide in the canvas
She was manipulated by enemy faction as a child, I don’t think it’s fair to put it on her
Yes what happened is a tragedy, and some level of responsibility can be put on her hand, but the way Aline and Clea treated her is a bit over the top. Clea is just full on passive aggressive the entire time, and Aline doesn’t have a decency to paint her normally as part of her family.
Hell, who knows how much of Maelle’s shitty childhood is by design by Aline lol
I thought the whole point was that she's going to suffer more from painterAIDS in the other ending.
If she leaves, she's still rich as fuck with magical powers and a loving family, I work with a burn victim daily and she's working for minimum wage
they ever explain how he lost an arm?
im even having a hard time googling clea to see the resemblence
* ???, she who carries the world on her back (Clea)
the Hauler
idk man bow wow wow from ff7 is an absolute banger
optional enemy that only gives silly french cosmetic items
just come back later
Hauler.
yous know that if you didn't cheat with maelle in the final boss
fuck off Simon, I'm not parrying 85 times for a fucking "sense of accomplishment"
Nigga unless they're some 5th dimensional shit we stand on par with aliens. If they live in a nitrogen rich environment we just put on a suit. Lune doesn't even entertain the idea of a special suit to wear to get out the canvas just "well I can't leave here so Maelle said she'll paint things from outside and show me".
he skipped the hauler and reacher part of the final boss and thinks he somehow had a good experience
I think fake Clea was Simon’s lover or something
Yeah, she was. And real Clea had a temper tantrum once she realized that her painted avatar is fucking some NPC.
given a personality and then let loose
They were giving birth and having families for generations. They progressed from quaint farms to aquaponics and greenhouses. They made a religion after the Fracture.
Do you think all of these were painted too?
Do you think all of these were painted too?
Yes.
And nothing really stop her to make her own painted world, it’s just that the current verso painting is so fucked metaphysically with every aspect of Verso just wanting to move on that staying there indefinitely is fucking toxic
Cuckstave is your typical nu-male
They are real because they are actually independent beings that just needed the initial creative spark, just like us when we attained consciousness.
EVERYTHING about them save a superficial detail (being made of chroma rather than atoms) is exactly like humans.
They have the same worth.
Why would the creator be worth more than it's creation? Because he came before? Why would antecedence give you higher value?
It's a complex subject that you can't sweep aside like you're doing. You must be american.
I think she does make her own painted world and gets fucked up in it like Aline with a painted Gustave.
* Visage, he who hides truths with lies (Verso)
Which begs the question what kind of lying shithead real Verso was if that was Renoir's take on him.
Jarrell and Demarcus just finished... it's my turn.
i NEED to beat simon for the hauler thing? hes the last thing i have left but i dont know if i have the patience to learn his moveset because by the time i got to the second phase he was hittin me with the double sword attack nonsense
guess i can try before doom dark ages comes out.
Based on the pieces of worldbuilding we get, they can't leave under any circumstances, their essence is of their world and tied to it. Some Gnostic ontological hell but enlightenment being impossible.
This is actually hilarious. It's kind of amazing the devs didn't put stop guards on Renoir's health and lv70 faggots spamming Stendahl miss absolute kino and barely even know it
Don't forget that the grieving Aline made a copy of Verso to comfort her, and he's a massive lying traitorous piece of shit. The real one must have been so much worse if that's how he acts just based on what she knew. Honestly the writers are based for taking him out.
In other words, less than real people.
Meh, it could simply mean Verso was a very guarded person who always kept his true self obscured. You know the type of people who have masks for every situation.
And it makes sense, Verso apparently didn't have many real friends outside of the family.
This is the face of a man who has given up on life
just parry the slow 3 hit combo and dodge the quick 4 hit combo
They share many inside jokes, and was important enough that he was the target of the assassination through Alicia by the writers
My guess is that he’s Renoir’s 2nd in command of sort on his faction, and he’s in charge of diplomacy?
That post is saying that Renoir uses Hauler and Reacher after he uses Sirene and Visage during the final boss. In other words, if you play the game, you see Hauler. It has nothing to do with Simon.
The hilarious part is that the only thing Aline and Renoir were 100% on agreement in, even after the death of real Verso, is that he was a lying manipulative cunt.
Even when making her idealized version of him, Aline STILL made a sociopath by simply putting what she remembered of the guy into Painted Verso.
Again, the Verso we got is just the surface level lying that Aline was aware of at best.
It's very funny the more you think about it.
he wasn't a shithead, just someone who likes to lie for the sake of everyone. We see it in childVerso and paintedVerso. Ie: pretending to love painting when he hates it for his parent's sake.
Or when he claims he's doing all this because he wants to die when he really just wants to save his mom
You aren't real either. You're stuck in a 3d space, your eye can barely see more than 0.1% of what's actually around you, you're a parasitic lifeform on a planet.
Human hubris at its finest. Try to be more like God, merciful and humble instead of an edgy nerd with a materialistic, limited viewpoint
Lune should never have been a romance option for Verso, instead she should have been one for Gustave
They have great chemistry together, even Sophie was down for it, and I never got the impression Lune actually liked Verso unlike Sciel.
I think it's clear to everyone involved that the Camp skits/cutscenes and the last steps of the storyline are entirely detached from one another.
Both Verso and Alicia get a shitload of character development through optional content that obviously the game goes on to then ignore, since it's optional.
Who gave them the idea for the Lumina converter? Did Clea told them to start worshipping her? Your headcanon to handwave all the painted people away as soulless slaves of their demiurge just undermines the story.
Like the type of people IRL that thank God instead of the doctors after surgery, because God created the surgeons. Bunch of nonsense
i saw an image of the dude with a giant sword through his fuckin body and put 2 and 2 together.
You're actually retarded. The maelle ending is dridftlt influenced with Reacher part
You see projections of the painters all the time it’s traces of their soul like Verso
I guess the big part of Verso’s character is his desire to be a pianist instead of a painter, but still went on with his mother’s lesson for painting regardless of his desire
Out of curiosity, what happened if you lie to Maelle for her max relationship?
Maelle's ending is bad because Verso is suffering
Why the fuck should anyone care about painted Verso? If someone tried to erase my existence twice because he's a moody cunt I'd do a lot worse than make him play the piano
Yeah, the romances in general were an afterthought. That's imo the one thing the drops a ball on.
Why didnt Verso just join Renoir 2 if he wanted to die and force maelle out anyways
Sure buddy.
You occupy an image board where anons think the people in africa are lesser beings because they live in straw huts. Hell, you probably think that yourself.
And you expect me to believe that you genuinely think that within the story of this game that the people made by a woman's inability to move on from her son's death are every bit equal to the woman that painted them?
Please.
Look man, I know it's French and therefore French philosophical ideology is the precedent here, but going full simulacra and simulation doesn't change the fact that no matter how "real" the simulation is, it's still at the end of the day a faux reality. Or if that doesn't jog the noggin, it's the Matrix but this time there are no battery people, they're all just computer programs with no real person who can "wake up" to reality. Shit lets get even older with this shit to Plato, they're the shadows on the cave. They're not even the prisoners.
Based NAP enforcer
I know that well but will there be any means of me knowing thrat without dying?
Out of curiosity, what happened if you lie to Maelle for her max relationship?
Nothing, outside of making Verso look even more like a shithead.
I think he was onboard until he saw Aline dying from paintercancer and then something changed in an instant
The whole painting was basically about him and his family's inability to let go.
You didn't play the game.
resorts to projecting his own worldview on others
Checkmate.
A simulation or a computer program follows deterministic logic. There's nothing that shows this is the case for painted people in the canvas.
The only purpose of the "romances" (pity fucks really) is to make painted Verso look like more of a shithead so I don't mind it.
If you want to be really anal about it, just headcanon the Maelle ending, once he's sent to the piano mines maybe Sophie will set Lune up with her ex after all
He joined Maelle because she claims that there's no longer a reason to destroy the canvas since she hid it.
Then Aline came back. (he says "No, wtf are you doing?")
Then Renoir shows Aline dying (he literally goes towards the hole and stares)
Then Alicia lies to Renoir (he gives her a dirty look).
Only then did he decide to nuke the canvas
Until it became more, so why would someone not be willing to look past the catalyst and look instead towards the outcome?
Renoir should like, get a fucking grip.
He didn't want to force Maelle out and destroy the Canvas until after the boss fight tho it would have been kino if he betrayed the party and Expedition 33 became a four niggas in a row type game at the end
pointing out a common ass thing happening on the board is projecting now
can't offer up a counterargument, just accusations of projecting
I accept your concession.
So where did Alicia hide the canvas again? The "clever" spot turned out to not be so fucking clever.
Right behind her mom, she'll never think to look there.
You’ve seen Aline’s take on him right?
How do you get this cutscene?
They are sentient, if not sapient, regardless of their nature there ought to be consideration on whether they can be considered “real”, considering I’ve dealt with “real” people with less going on in their noggins
Renoir did nothing wrong.
The outcome was that two people get addicted to the canvas, can't let go of a dead guy who clearly doesn't want to be there anymore and in the process are about to kill themselves.
Why would a fake reality be an issue if you can't even be sure that your reality is somehow worth more? The only way we can perceive reality is through our senses and they are extremely lackluster, we're extremely limited beings and dismissing anything that can't reach out state of reality is asinine because we can't reach many others.
Imagine a race with 100 people and the dude who finished 99th starts spitting and mocking the dude who finished last. That's what we are when we deem the painted people as less real than us and decide whether they deserve to live or not.
Well put.
I think she metaphysically hid it in her eye
Worked about as well as it did for Tessaiga
Yeah no, the paintedVerso we know is not Aline's anymore. Even Aline herself was fucking confused by him when she saw him thinking he's Renoir's trick. Guaranteed someone, very likely realClea, painted over him.
There's no way that Aline painted Verso as anything but a perfect mommasboy for her to live out her cope.
the piano mines
I lold
You occupy an image board where anons think the people in africa are lesser beings because they live in straw huts. >Hell, you probably think that yourself.
This is projecting, period. It simply shows you're not interested in a genuine discussion, I've then answered another anon who seemed a lot more honest and worth discussing with. I'm replacing you with him instead for the rest of the thread. See ya
You know, daddy Renoir REALLY doesn't make a convincing argument as to why Alicia should return to the real world. He essentially makes this all about himself, with how HE doesn't want to lose her and dismisses her argument that she doesn't want to live her life as a disfigured, mute cripple as "don't worry, it'll be fine". Seriously, he can shove that "it'll be fine" pep talk up his ass.
I dunno why this exchange pissed me off so much.
The outcome is a civilization of extremely adaptive people that wish to live and explore the mysteries of reality and cooperation with the other living beings around them.
That you care more about two women making their own choices and wanting to an hero but being unable to let go about it is exactly the same as the reasoning you are trying to use yourself.
uh they are not real
I accept your concession.
Check on other when Verso first joined
A lot of the cutscenes are missable if you dont do that on camp
dismissing anything that can't reach out state of reality is asinine because we can't reach many others.
Crab bucket. They can't reach us which means that they are less. The only way they could be "separate but equal" is if they are able to access a reality that we can't.
But it's not. One is statement of a fact that's gleaned from observation of the board. The other is a supposition, hence why it's prefaced with "you probably", as in maybe you think that way, maybe you don't.
Neither thing is projection.
To be fair, he had been stuck under the rock for 67 years after his wife’s woman moment, and now his daughter is telling him she’d do the exact same thing, in spirit if not in function
You're instead dooming her grandkids. Good job
I dunno why this exchange pissed me off so much.
because you have daddy issues
also yes, that's literally the point of Renoir's character, he is a coward that needs to control the situation out of fear of losing more family because he already failed to prevent Verso's death
he's a good father but like many fathers out there he is trying to take control of the situation despite wishes of their wives or daughters
honestly Clea was right, Aline should have just been left to her own devices and she would eventually leave the canvas after making peace with her grief, she's an expert painter and knows the limits, she would have been FINE if Renoir didn't escalate things and the arguement spiraled out of control
The Darkness is just black ink that's a retaliation by the painters
Is there inherent value in the existence of, let's say, a species of songbird in Bhutan. It can't speak, or form culture, unlike the painted people, the scope of its senses that it perceives its world with is even narrower than ours, and its inner world more simplistic. It cannot fight humanity back, its eradication will have little to no material impact to your life.
Is it still immoral to make them extinct? To they have an inherent right to existence that humanity ought not to violated despite having the power to do so easily?
You don't pick the Verso ending for Maelle's or Renoir's sake, you pick it for Verso
I picked it for all three
Because you are a retarded teenager or stuck in the mentality of one.
His argument was 100% right and all Alicia could manage was
I know better REEEEEEEE
She's just 16, and it shows.
I haven't finished the game, they just killed my self insert and I'm very upset. I was imaging going all the way to protect Mabelle and save her future and then they dunk on my dreams and fuckin hurt my soul. I'm leaving this thread before I get spoiled
I fucking hate the French.
He wanted to be able to grieve together with his wife, his wife is shutting him out entirely, and probably took a daily reaming from black cocks in the painting until he start gommaging them
Our grandkids you mean.
It gets worse.
Don't self insert as the new guy btw.
yes the french suck and have been traumatizing people with sad endings since the 1800s.
NOW GET OUT OF Anon Babble ANON! THERE'S A LOT MORE TWISTS IN THE GAME!!!!
Why would they be less? What does less mean in this context, actually? Does it only encompass the way they can act on the material plane? Is it only quantitative? Sounds like a strength contest
Samefagging "you're so right sister!"-tier replies to your own posts doesn't make you any less retarded
Could also be remnant of Verso’s soul resonated with his doppleganger and made him act out to find a way to stop the cycle
Dude, you don't leave your family to overdose just because someone died.
Renoir was right in what he did with Aline, bitch was crazy and needed a wakeup call.
NTA but you're being supremely idiotic.
How can you honestly discuss the moral dilemma of the right to existence for a sapient being on a nested reality when you advocate for TOTAL NIGGER DEATH in real life, like me? Huh?
I don't you fucking retard, stop putting your words in my mouth.
Be honest - how many of you want a gf who dresses like baguette Maelle?
subtly hopeful
You're high as a mule and the Canvas is just as doomed. You fixed nothing.
Gotta say the painting shit has me seething
Renoir's trick
this was Alicia/Maelle, because she looked like the real thing she was
Y'know, Clair Obscur really showed how pretentious and overly talky Alan Wake 2 is. It makes the same point in a much more elegant manner, and without the writers autofellating thrmselves.
I replied to that post, cease your projection.
I agree with your nuance but given the average exchange on the board I got preemptively tired of engaging with someone who seemed eager to paint me as some bogeyman to take down, I've just had enough of people putting words in my mouth so I did the same to you instead.
As for your original question, yes I expect you to believe that. But I'm going to sleep anyway, no point continuing
You're using subjectivism to both prove and disprove your own point in the same argument. If you can't trust your own senses to perceive your environment and discern truth from it, then nothing you view can be taken as objectively real or not. That's the problem of the painted people than it is the Dessendre's who DO know the difference, as well as to why they can leave and alter the very fabric of that worlds reality. It's not even remotely about them being "lesser beings" it's about them essentially being literal figments of someone else's imagination. Arguing that they're real people is making a claim that any fictional character is by extension also real despite that demonstrably being false. Mark Hamill is a real human being, Luke Skywalker is a character. Alicia is the, Maelle was just her persona. Confusing the two is where problems arise.
Make camp after getting Monoco but before going to old lumiere
I like to use the metaphor of a living shadow with it come to the Painters and their creations.
A Shadow if living is a thinking feeling creature that nevertheless something intangible and if not for its novelty lesser than a full person due to its limitations in these regards.
Now consider a situation where one must chose between the life of said living shadow and of a full person.
In that kind of circumstance it behooves one to pick the person as the more tangible or "more real" of the two. That is not to deny the shadow's "realness" but to place it in a context of value. Or to use the 100 race hypothetical, the 99th person is faster than the 100th and so despite their mockery if one is to weight their worth depending on their speed in a life or death station you would pick the 99th racer.
Where the snag in Expedition 33's argument on these matters is that is hundreds of shadows vs one real person and that is where the argument truly lies.
To me personally a shadow is infinitely less important that a person, however if it was possible to save them both then you should do so, additionally it is the shadows right to stand up for itself and fight back, something which the rest of the party refuses to do for various reasons and so forfeits that agency.
You’re telling me that kikes are more pretentious than frogs? Will wonder ever cease?
she says it DIRECTLY to Verso when he tells her to go home
are you dense? she was confused by BOTH because neither was her creation
which is also curious that Clea assumed Alicia was being painted over by Aline but it seems like neither Alicia nor Renoir actually did that, hmm...
Finally someone that fucking gets it. The Expedition's mottos are meant to have double meaning that reflect the real situation with the Dessendres. Like 'When one falls (Verso), we continue (move on from grief as a family'. Same with Tomorrow Comes. To believe otherwise is stupidly naive. Alicia is the one that comes after, taking Lumière's memories with her and growing because of it, not turning into a shut-in crackhead.
I! know what is best for you, you are addicted!
My fear of losing you and my grief is not at all clouding my judgement
Time to shove in my axons and beat the shit out of you inside the painting to force you out on my terms because I say you need to come home!
Control freaks like to throw the addiction card all over the place and entirely ignore the game telling you upfront they are both at fault in the equation.
I guess that's what projection and falseflagging will do to you. Or is it just incel rage?
A mix of everything probably.
how I take a cheeky afternoon nap knowing my P*inter enemies are ontologically evil and thus any action I take against them is justified
*jump dodge symbol*
It's free parry damage!
I think the problem here is that people are reading into the black and white ending with ominous music and a literal fucking jumpscare too much
Say it isn't so
i lost interest in the story after he died. i really dont care for this kojima tier writing waiting until 20 hours later to understand whats going on with all this schizo maelle shit
Man, they really should have pulled BoF4 and had Verso as final boss vs the party for the final fight
post yfw this beast of burden is from your faction
Sophie and Gustav are back together in that ending though, and I don't know it just kind of feels like a missed opportunity for character development
I also never got the impression the writers want Verso to look bad, more like a tragic anti-hero. Think about it: anime multi-coloured hair, 2 girlfriends, dual wielding swords, giant cock, scar over one eye, teleports in front of you (pshh nothin personnel...) to do a 12 hit slash combo, fuck he even holds the sword like a weeb, kinda becomes the main character, etc
My wrigga
Dude you make me care about Lumiere and their plight and make me feel anger towards the paintress for being a cunt. And then ”we in da computer :)”. Come on…
Those statements were referring to the tenacity of the people of Lumiere against incomprehensible horrors though, not some literally who malicious demiurges from another dimension who directly caused their suffering and now will erase them.
To draw an analogy between them is forced and clunky at best, and outright malicious writing at worst
know what is best for you, you are addicted!
Yes
>My fear of losing you and my grief is not at all clouding my judgement
Literally in the right
>Time to shove in my axons and beat the shit out of you inside the painting to force you out on my terms because I say you need to come home!
She did the same for him in the past.
the French really like anime
Clea couldn’t kill them all fast enough
when you advocate for TOTAL NIGGER DEATH in real life, like me?
Now this is projecting.
This isn't Japanese writing, motivations are clear cut. It IS subversive however, characters are expected to have character development, and in this every single character you'd expect to go through such an ark... fucking doesn't. And then retards have a fight about who gets their way.
Why act like 90% of books out there aren't far worse slop written by and for wine moms?
make painted Verso look like more of a shithead so I don't mind it.
It's sad the average normalgag gets his character and writing better than the retards here
Everyone is blatantly sentient and alive, so. A family of wannabe demiurges fucked everyone over because of their shitty drama.
She did the same for him in the past.
not the same situation, not the same circumstances
that was when Renoir was young and inexperienced painter, he literally did not know how to safely paint
Aline is an expert, possible the best of them all, supposedly a head of some fantasy council even. Grief or not she knows the limits and would have been fine if she was left to make peace on her own terms.
They were already covered in filth in the intro sequence before even embarking on the expedition
Literally wrong
Not raycist I just don't like em
Verso died, you have to let him go. Staying here is killing you and I don't want to lose you.
anyone else think this guy is an asshole?!?!?!
Fictional characters can be demonstrated as false because they're limited and different observers will have the exact same view of those characters, they'll have different interpretations about them but a fictional character is still isolated in time and shared in the same way to everyone. However, the painted people enjoy just as much freedom as any human provided they don't get painted over. They are so real that Alicia/Maelle managed to have a real life alongside them, similar in every way to human life. They're not only figments of someone's imaginations, they're also magical beings created with chroma. The very instant they're created, they're literally born.
Atoms could be figments of God's imagination as well, what matters is how truly sentient these painted people are.
This, what the fuck is this analogy? Muh this is what Gustave would have wanted :) bullshit. The Dessendres don't value you at all, you're disposable to them, Verso's strategy when trying to manipulate/convince Maelle is that "you can draw new friends in another world haha" like they're shooting their dog to get a new puppy that's cuter and a new breed.
As stated previously in the thread, its a failure of the writing team to build a proper bridge between the themes and the material text as The Painters become the main focus and what the creators want you to care about by the time act 3 rolls around.
I hate that Verso didn’t spend a goddamn minute just talking with the party about the history of the expeditions beyond some comment, or his family. My take is that he doesn’t consider himself real, which is why talking about himself as Verso wouod be painful if not lying, and talking about the expeditioners is just series of painful memories and loss, whether from him effectively being Aline’s sleeper agent, or from them just failing and dying on their own merit
But I do feel he should have talked more about himself and the painters, and the party members should have grilled him more
Yeah, the story is actually very simple and it's not as if the game tries very hard to hide the information to artificially create plot twist. Every answer is in front of you from the start and you can connect the dots very quickly if you pay attention. It's just that the game throws you off at the start by focusing on a red herring story.
Paint another canvas you fucking crackhead, Verso tells you as much after beating your fucking ass during the final boss
TOTAL PAINTER HOLOCAUST
and would have been fine if she was left to make peace on her own terms.
Dude. She was dying and went back to the painting the moment she was booted out.
In terms of their willingness to shit up their creations' lives, they are all assholes. Including Maelle with her painted Alicia episode, but later keeping Verso alive because ???.
Well, you'd choose another person over a shadow because they belong to the same species as you do. It's instinctive and expected. You have the right to do so, but metaphysically I wouldn't rank them at all.
She says so herself, she only cares about the painting because the painting is verso's.
Matrixfags will look at a screencap of the universe’s god, who has been floating around here for at least 500 years, saying they have souls and go “yeah that guy’s biased listen to me i played the sims”
Anon, we are talking about a suicidially depressed cripple. Renoir doesn't make an argument as to WHY she should return to the real world, when Alicia would most likely be fine with dying in her fantasy world, where she can at least die happy.
Losing a rock is better than never having a rock
Indomitable woman will to kick her husbands ass.
It's just that the game throws you off at the start by focusing on a red herring story.
The red herring story would have been better.
The game pretends like you're supposed to care for the Dessendres for some unholy reason, is the average gamer so susceptible to leading and being lectured by the writing they actually follow?
”Simulated” and ”real” is an arbitrary distinction. All simulations exist as fully real machinery in base reality, which makes it real.
That's my main gripe with the game
They want you to care about the characters but they've failed in doing so
Maelle is the only one to think of them in that context because she explicitly did the thing Clea told her not to do, which is to "lose herself" in the transition from reality and the Canvas. In a manner of speaking, she's totally lost her grasp on reality hence why she can view her imaginary friends as real even though they aren't. Otherwise it's very likely she would've done what her sister did, and alter them at will for her own purposes, or create new ones like her mother did with the painted copies of her family members. I think we're more arguing semantics about whether or not they even qualify as alive or real at all. I posit that they aren't and are essentially just a very convincing illusion. You posit that they are BECAUSE that illusion is incredibly convincing.
Canvas is just as doomed
You guys keep repeating this, but... why? Do you expect Renoir to destroy the painting out of what, rage?, if one or two of his family members die inside it? He doesn't really want to destroy it in the first place.
I'll accept the concession, freak
Agreed. Or at minimum Lune should have fought him as well.
Sounds like you have girlbrains
I was gonna say “Aline wanted to help Alicia” as the reason she came back, but considering how she view Alicia, I think she only went back in because she was about to beat Renoir’s ass and she can go back to hikki-ing in the painting
You're supposed to care for the Dessendres because you ARE them.
You're not a painted creation. You're a real person living in a real world. You should be able to make a distinction between the good of fictional characters and the health of real people.
Nah. I care more about Renoir than faceless city NPCs we've never met. You fail at being a man.
I just fought Clea what a cool fight, probably my favorite in the game in terms of presentation. Lune looks really sexo with her outfit.
Do you expect Renoir to destroy the painting
Do you expect him not to? After it being the reason he almost lost his wife after fighting her for 67 years and 100% lost his daughter? Are you retarded?
And that's where we differ and what half this argument comes down to beyond all the shitflinging, I and others like me do think that the shadows are things to be ranked in the context of life or death.
The other half is if your willing to give respect what the game is trying to message or not because of how badly it was handled which is a whole other discussion that I don't think can be properly talked about until everyone has a full grasp on the games complete content.
Does your brain fry at the first sign of a game actually being well written with seeds planted whose meaning changes with later revelations? Is your brain alright?
I can't choose to give myself a lobotomy and ignore the blatant ethical and philosophical question here. Maybe the writers did.
Your world doesn't become any less real to you if you ever find out it was made by a psychotic demiurge who had a woman moment
Verso, Monoco, and Esquie boss party vs the girls
Missed kino
This. The red herring story was much better. Exploring the dark continent from HxH as an underdog to save your people and get revenge? It’s just too kino to throw away
are you retarded?
So is it rage? Revenge? You're so smart you can't articulate it. If course, none of it is in the game so it's entirely your headcanon.
Its a clear side effect of doing multiple partial rewrites of the game.
Like 30% of the original scrip is still in the game which is a problem in of itself as that's way to much to synergize with multiple rewrites but to little to properly brush past.
outright malicious writing
Jesus fucking Christ where do you tumblr weirdos come from
What exactly about reality should make me care about it more than the rest?
Reminds me of people who expect you to love your parents just because they you're parents, nothing more
t. Aline
Do you fail to perceive a concept from the game's internal logic as opposed to judging it from the outside as "kino" writing?
we're all fighting for our lives and to reclaim the world from this mysterious force, cum after, tomorrow cums etc.etc., wait a second now it has always been about killing ourselves and erasing it all? For some psycho cunts who were the ones creating this hell this whole time?
being lectured
You're the only one that feels like this, autist
Well that's just not true and even surrealism as an art movement challenged that. "Ceci n'est pa une pipe" is this entire premise as a single piece. Just because the painting is of a pipe does not make it a pipe, therefore it is not a real pipe. The distinctions are not arbitrary and matter greatly to the topic at hand.
Did you miss the ending where you can rebuild Lumiere at the expense of Dessendre family or are you one of those who fell for black and white = bad?
Is it just me or does Simoso fucks your framerate if you use Phantom Star?
he doesn't know about games where writers intentionally write events to spite the playerbase on purpose
Which is why Alicia had the rock for 16 years and she loses it during the superior ending
alright that guy who held his oneitis’s hand as she slipped from reality
that guy you start playing as who loses his will to live until you find his adoptive daughter
that guy we killed with that really sad music we played to get you to feel REALLY bad
that guy you’ll bury (more sad violins btw) and spend the next 20 hours trying to avenge
yeah fuck that guy
now THESE guys…
That's a cope to excuse the writers failures and you know it.
Clea can probably join some other family and breed. Chicks are good at that.
Why did you fight Renoir at the end?
Why did Verso fight Renoir at the end?
A simulated pipe with all the functionality of a pipe is a pipe
tumblr
Malicious writing is essential CRPG and Anon Babblecore
Does anyone know the name of the song that played before the Paintress woke up to draw a new number in the prologue?
youtu.be
they failed at making people care about the characters
he says, in a thread dedicated to nothing but characters
What's the failure? That they didn't pan to the graves of three (or four including Renoir's, or five) family members so it's less ambiguous?
he fell for the simple trick to humanise painted creations
let me guess, you would actually lay down your life IRL to save Khaleesi from writers in season 8?
We're discussing them but we don't care about them, it's different
People talk about gacha characters all the time, I very much doubt there is any emotional connection to any of them
So 'retarded', got it
"Renoir"
This shit is just Umineko all over again
MAGIC
ENDING
IS THE RIGHT ONE
Why did you fight Renoir at the end?
Did you skip all the cutscenes or what
Why did Verso fight Renoir at the end?
His writing is all over the fucking place one moment he’s fucking bitches and reviving gestrals next he’s trying to kill everyone
Care =/= like or dislike, learn english
Because his issues were with the Dessendre's killing themselves over the guy he was made as a copy of and that he wanted to die.
The moment Alicia offered the potential of a way to save both he went with it, besides if he wanted to die it can still ahppen after everything is resolved.
Then at the very end Aliene comes back and Alicia lies about her planning to leave and so he needs to step in to stop them from rotting away.
You fight Renoir in the end because he wants to destroy the painting in its entirety while Alicia gave you a solution that didn’t need destroying the painting. Verso went along with Alicia because he is an idealized version of the real Verso, the guy that saved Alicia at the cost of his life.
Verso basically didn’t decide to destroy the painting until 5 minute before he did when he saw that Alicia’s solution doesn’t work, and Aline was dying irl as shown by Renoir
See you don't even have an argument. Some idiot mentioned it in one of the early threads, you picked it up, and now you idiots keep repeating it. If anything, Renoir is liable to neet himself to death in that painting too, since he already lost people.
t. Yasu
But anon, I want to lose myself in make-believe with a needle up my arm!
I'm more or less fine with how Verso is written. He is both a suicidal/genocidal retard, and he cares for his family and his (new) friends. Cue conflict.
Friendly reminder that no matter what, Esquie loves you.
Thanks anon.
If you cannot hold it in your hand and use it to smoke as you would a real pipe, then it is not a real pipe. It's a simulation of a pipe.
simple trick to humanise painted creations
But that's not what the game shows, they aren't automatons.
i’m just sick of this cliche and the new lows writers sink to make it feel fresh. Once Upon A Time In America did it best, it’s not getting topped
It's about emotional engagement.
Maelle-fags are disgusting
He doesn’t really become genocidal until he saw Maelle is an untrustworthy fuckup that would get herself and Aline killed
He decided then that he needed to be the adult since Renoir has the ultimate weakness of a father that is bending over to their daughter’s whim
It shows their stories from their perspective, just like any book you've read, any movie you've watched and any video game you've played.
But you wouldn't ACTUALLY consider any of them real, would you? Despite the fact that they "think", "feel" and "exist" within their worlds?
she should have been one for Gustave
They were already a thing in the past, pay attention
Renoir wants to end the painting to rescue his wife and daughter and finally put his son's soul to rest. Playing as the people currently living in the painting (and Maelle who sees them as her other family), you want to stop him from ending your world.
Verso I'm not 100% on because he and real Renoir's goals align, but I took it to mean that he is just following the winning team until they lead him to the real Verso so that he can finally die.
I'm saying that the people who made the game do things for a reason and things have commonly associated meanings that people are meant to pick up on unless the work points out the subversion beforehand.
under that context one ending being bright and happy while melancholic while the other is shot like a horror film means something and you either have to be a retard, coping, or arguing in bad faith to bait if you think otherwise.
The whole of act 2 though? All of that was just to save Aline. And to finally suicide. You decide which is weightier for him lol.
Sophie just suggests it and he replies with a grunt, that's not enough to go off.
FFS, why is this a discussion.
Anyone with basic literacy and knows narrative structure should be able to point out how disjointed the story is.
The setup is humanity's struggle for survival against a seemingly all powerful for.
The call to action is about Gustav's journey to save Lumiere because he lost his loved ones and wants the repeat to stop
The
The rising action is Gustav's death and introduction to a literal who so far.
The climax is learning the setup is false and it's actually about more literal who's.
The last act of the game is then about learning about these new characters, their motives and having a full on narrative sequence about the Dessendres leading to the Conclusion about it.
It's a bait and switch. If you follow along, it's a Dessendre story. If you stop caring halfway it's a Gustav/Fight For Survival story.
The fact it's not joined together is a failing of the structure, not the reader.
But it *is* kino, not drop the line of coke Alicia and start coping with reality
Real life Verso saves Alicia's life (body) in exchange of his own
Painted Verso saves Alicia's life (soul) in exchange of his own.
Cinéma.
Or at least it would be, because Verso failed to ask Lune if she's cool with sacrificing herself for Alicia's sake.
muh sims
muh VR
muh matrix
muh holodeck
muh computer programs
Lune didn't fight back so that's on her.
Dad my life is suffering I literally just want to be happy for five minutes then die.
No you go watch your second family die and go back to being a dying cripple RIGHT NOW, otherwise I'll be upset!
Maybe if you have zero social skills
yes.
those frenzied retards won't even rememeber the game when the spotlight will move to the next product
Don't bother, pushing sexuality related headcanons is the favorite thing that plebbitors do.
There was zero reason for Verso to care about kid verso remnant. The most forced conflict I've ever seen.
Why on Earth would he ask her that? He's going to do it anyway, why would he telegraph his plan to her when she would obviously be against it and try to stop him?
why didnt Aline just paint dozens of variations of Renoire to better protect her
I literally just want to be happy for five minutes
Paint your own canvas then you cokehead slut
Your on a board with autists anon, they can't interpreted a text on the level of narrative structure and theming, only on in fiction materialism and surface level character personalities.
This thread is better about it than most but it still gets bogged down because of who posts here.
He wants to get rid of the paintress so Aline can go back to real world, and he just let Renoir’s return happened without telling anyone that it would end in gommage because he need them to still come along with him (or at least Maelle) to break through the monolith and beat the Paintress
Remember, this is the guy that hides Soarie so the Esquie wouldn’t fly them back to Lumiere
Scar tissue doesn't affect lifespan, anon. Maybe if she's stressed as fuck because of it the whole time she's alive, then maybe.
Despite the fact that they "think", "feel" and "exist" within their worlds?
In that context they are real, correct. Every setting with alternate realms/pocket dimensions and magic acknowledges other realms as "real" even if they can be wiped.
Okay, is that grunt an indication that he got caught and they were a thing or is it a reaction to her blowing him off when he's obviously still smitten with her?
Please use your social skills to deduce the right answer and explain why in detail
She cannot fight back, because cannot enter the inside-painting without being immediately wiped, and she's not cool with that.
So she just stays in broken Lumiere, probably being the only person left alive for a while, before the canvas collapses completely. And I don't blame her being salty. Her whole story arc was about learning to live her life and then her life gets snuffed out at a whim.
If anything it would be the raspatory issues
how does teasing work
anon has no idea
She is described as a dead weight, needing constant supervision, incapable of breathing or communication and in physical pain. Also lacks one eye.
I think it's a fair enough ticked alongside the mental trauma to just want out.
It’s just like that episode of rick and morty where rick (alicia) turns herself into a pickle (maelle), you know, plato’s cave
And before that point she did nothing, and after even a destructive charge into nothingness would of been something.
5 minutes
She spent 16 years in there with no desire to leave and Aline spent what, 100? I think the self indulgence has gone on long enough, if not for their sake than for the dead kid's ghost who doesn't even like painting in the first place
Hurting to breathe is a sign of pulmanicradiac damage.
She isn't just crippled, unless they have iron lungs, she's gonna be fucked
The game was horribly rewritten at some point to focus on a "twist", forced character drama and a hamfisted message, at the expense of its own worldbuilding and internal logic and turning into a black hole of inconsistencies and nonsensical motivations. They could have made a viable bridge from the Lumiere to the Dessendre story, but they didn't, and it comes out as spiteful writing.
Do we blame the reddit woman?
Dude, she's mute, disfigured, half-blind and she has burned lungs. Every second of her life is agony.
It's like asking Darth Vader why he's so salty all the time.
Well, yes. What are you trying to argue, that he *doesn't* want to suicide himself, at all? Yeah, he does all these things to boot Aline out.
What exactly was the problem with just leaving Verso's canvas the fuck alone again?
Nobody could just pry it away from the basket case parents? Clea couldn't afford a fucking lockbox?
Despite her life outside the canvas being shit it seems her main attachment is actually Verso. That's why she loses it if Verso wins, that's why he's stuck playing the piano if Maelle wins.
Still impressive that none of them are able to compromise and take a break from the canvas.
She literally became aware of her memories like a month ago, and indeed, loved there contextless for 16 years. There is no reason for her to want to leave what is as much her world as any other life she might have led.
The ghost can cope. He is barely sentient at that stage and will be freed once she is dead regardless.
I definitely don't remember anything of the sort. If you mean the Clea IRL segment, that's stretching it as fuck. She'd be wheezing like a bulldog if it was true and she doesn't, she just can't speak.
What hiring writers from Reddit does to a project
Ah, I was arguing that he is not really genocidal on purpose, just that his goal and continuation of lumiere is mutually exclusive
She literally says that breathing causes her pain.
narrative structure and theming
fiction materialism and surface level character personalities.
You cannot prop up one at the expense of the other. At the cost of trying to cobble together an overarching message about grief, they torpedoed their in-universe worldbuilding and their characters having logical motivation.
Funny thing is that most people, both professional critics and normal gamers, will focus on the theming and message instead of the minutia of the actual events unfolding in their screen, which is why the story is praised to no end and will sweep awards.
She can paint herself into her own utopia. Renoir says the family has painted hundreds of worlds.
It took a lot of fucking work and ruining the painted world to drag Aline out. Now do that again for Alicia. And then every time they break into it again.
The conflict is tearing the family apart because they can't compromise.
Verso's soul is trapped inside it and the girls refuse to touch grass, affecting their irl physical health
Renoir wants to bury his son for good and help his girls move on. That requires removing the canvas.
Versofags confirmed retards thinking theyre watching an episode of black mirror
It's probably a mixture. When she flips out at her dad she just cares about not suffering the cripple life.
That said yes, both she and Verso do a turn and just turn the whole thing into NO I KNOW WHAT YOU NEED LOOK IT'S THIS YOUR OPINION DOES NOT MATTER
Don’t they pry it away while Aline and Renoir are inside? Pretty sure it casts a spell on you and you’re in there until you will yourself back regardless of where the painting is
What an argument this is. I suppose I meant "genocidal" as someone who's totally cool with it, and not necessarily getting pleasure from it.
No, that's you being and idiot amerilard who needs to be spoonfed all implications of his own choices. I know it.
Yeah, never before has "..." been used in writing to denote subtle acknowledgment
Verso? More like Verso fucked lmao
She does not want that. She wants to die with the canvas she was born in as Maelle, with her family+Fake Verso
According to the saved Alpha trailer form yesterday he original draft was about the MC betraying the group he was working for and some plot point about potentially "bringing everyone back" with a focus on it being "their story" with a working title of We Lost.
Is seems like the original concepts was "what if the party joined the villain's because of reasons" storyline ending with the "Heroes" coming in a defeating them at the end.
Unclear. What is clear, it's impossible to remove painters from the painting if they don't want to come out, and destroying it with them still inside is also not an option for some reason.
He doesn't know the black mirror episode about the woman who lost her husband so she asks an AI company to create a copy with a body
most people, both professional critics and normal gamers, will focus on the theming and message instead of the minutia of the actual events unfolding in their screen, which is why the story is praised to no end and will sweep awards.
Happens every time .
But she wouldn't be able to stay in this fantasy for too long, unless the story repeats itself.
Also, just like Verso, Alicia doesn't like painting all that much. Verso was more of a musician, Alicia was more of a wr*ter. Hence Stendhal.
I can enter the simulation and smoke it
Yeah, thinking back on it, it’s not much an argument since he is somewhat culpable for it since he’s aware of what would happen and didn’t actually tell anyone, but in his defense, what difference would that have made?
this, thank you
I very much enjoyed the sencond half, but the subversion of expectation was awful
What else has it been used for? Subtle disagreement? Not wanting to talk about the subject anymore?
Sounds like even more subversive slop than what we ended up getting, honestly.
no you just DON'T GET IT!!
I got it. I get what the devs are trying to put forward here.
It's still dumb and awkwardly executed, but I got it.
Verso is right
Nooo Maeile is right
You are all retarded. Both are horrible and selfish people. Verso wanted to commit genocide beucase his life is a torture and hes tired to live, Maeile wants to live on heroin because her life is a torture.
The endings focus on main character Alicia and for her one ending is objectively better than the other. However, writes specifically show you reactions of Luna, Sciel and other Lumiere citizens in both endings. Do you stubbornly refuse to intellectually engage deeper than surface level with any writing or just this one?
Verso's soul is trapped inside it
he's dead, and presented as a facsimile like aline was. just one that was maintaining the canvas itself.
this is a problem with their worldbuilding. there's multiple manifestations of verso but everyone explicitly says the real one is dead. then surprise, his "soul" is still there? miss me with that bs.
You cannot prop up one at the expense of the other
A work can convey a experiences purely based upon theming and tone if needed. The conflict arises is when you try and add material substance to those themes and fail at connecting the two.
Drop the meth pipe Alicia
It's incredibly frustrating.
Nigger is cosplaying Emet-Selch, so I really would rather have the “it’s all a painting” twist rather than some mystery niggers from Expedition 0 recovering all their crews at the cost of the world
Was he a real person produced magically or just a robot?
Nah fuck your gay self insert shit he’s mourning his oneitis not chasing whores
Based Gustave tapping Sophie, Lune and wanting to be tapped by Sciel.
Verso wanted to commit genocide
He's not real and they're not real.
His options are do nothing and live his life, aid Renoir, or aid Aline. He could scrounge up motivation to help Aline just fine, in his old journal he seethes about how he and everyone else who's painted are real people.
completely misinterprets everything because it's not spoonfed like in hollywood summer flicks
uhhm actually it's the writers who are wrong
Soul fragmentation is a common literary trope anon, we just lack the full context of what a souls in the the Clair Obscur universe and so have to go off commonly known assumptions.
His oneitis agrees with me though, canon shipper
If you pay attention you'll realize the tumblr freaks have been trying their gaslighting replies all thread long
What makes a person so bitter about other people having fun?
Except the are real because magic is real in the world of E33. Sorry.
His soul is there inasmuch as how any artist figuratively left a piece of theimselves in the work, but considering we’re talking about magic painting, it is more literal than that
An I’m personally on the camp that kid verso soul resonated with Aline’s verso to cause him to rebel in the first place
me creating an alternate magic dimension full of people who feel, act, think, perceive the world through their senses and have the same sense of self as humans, but making them boil in a sea of lava for eternity and it's 100% amoral because they're not heckin real
That's the fun part.
It doesn't matter.
It's about caring about x-humanoid as a human or not.
it's easy to misinterpret inconsistent plots. especially contrived ones. they force you to play by rules that keep changing, and then hamfist a premise they expect you to just agree retcons or dismisses what came before.
If you got it then you would accept that the Verso ending is the good one and hate that they wrote it like that, instead of defending the Alicia one.
it doesn't follow rigid structure popular in my times in my cultre so it's bad
Nuke amerilards.
Yes, but its just your intention and not the writers. This is where they fucked up. They should have made a scene where the characters interact with the real world, so the ocnsumer feels it that they are real. Someting like the Lego Movie 1 where Emmet the lego figurine visits our world and interacts with it
Well I mean it would matter because a robot is just a robot.
You die in the painting you die in real life
No, that merely disconnects you. Hypothesis you're looking for is either "if the painting is destroyed with painter still inside painter dies", or "it's literally impossible to destroy the painting from the outside", or "it's impossible to destroy the painting with the painter still inside (who doesn't want it to happen)". Take your pick lol, it's all headcanon.
only my interpretation of this contrived as fuck plot is correct
That's what I felt about this entire game tbhdesu
So it's like the Matrix? You die in the painting you die in real life.
Not really. It's more like you get booted out. Hell, Renoir's entire goal is to destroy the canvas.
Cool but your post has nothing to do with E33
Dying in the painting ejects you out to real life, this happened to Aline, and they were planning on killing Renoir to eject him
pick Maels ending
she is now a GM master making NPCs
What kind of life is that?
Verso was moma's precious baby
ends up destroying the canvas, which was what Renoir was trying to do.
Alicia was daddy's little angel, with the game outright saying that Renoir calls her his hidden star
ends up going all in on escapism in the painting, which was what Aline was doing
The irony of this is not lost on me.
"NPC"
look inside game
I'm playing as them
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM
They should have made a scene where the characters interact with the real world, so the ocnsumer feels it that they are real.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Ultimately though the characters in the painting are as real as the characters in the video game. If people think they deserve some kind of special treatment they better not switch the game off. Ever.
I think the only exception was Alicia, who wasn't booted out when Maelle died. I guess the gommage only destroyed her painted-over layer, revealing the real Alicia underneath?
Lumierians are NPCs
I play as them
Dessendres are heckin real
I don't play as them
Aelius Donatus was Roman though.....
Yes that's what happened, all the flower petals from the Gommage and actually paint flakes.
Maelie was as real to Alciia as Tip was to Ozma in the Oz books.
>Dessendres are heckin real
>I don't play as them
Maelle?
And a magical lead paint creature is just a magical lead paint creature
lol nigga everyone is so real! It doesnt matter that Gustav and Sophie died I just remake them xD they are so real XD
that’s cool but the game says they have souls
Anon, the game literally tells you that the little boy with no face is a piece of Verso's soul and it's there to keep the painting alive.
Verso is right when he says everyone in the family is just making excuse to sate their own grievances.
That still doesn't explain why he should give a shit. Especially when he's not suicidal about it until the very end of the game.
If Maeile had good intentions she would unpaint Verso instead of forcing him to participate in the charade. She is nothing more just a selfish meth whore.
game says they’re real don’t care how many star trek episodes you watched sorry
Ultimately though the characters in the painting are as real as the characters in the video game. If people think they deserve some kind of special treatment they better not switch the game off. Ever.
Magic isnt real in our world, retard.
Yeah, my guess is that the gommage got rid of the Maelle layer, but she’s still a painter
Which also mean that Verso isn’t entirely Aline’s, otherwise he would have been Gommaged like everyone else, which means either Clea/Renoir/Verso’s soul did something to him that gives him immunity to gommage despite being created by Aline
Yes, the interpretation that takes the material as basis and analyses it can generally be considered correct as opposed to interpretation that rejects the material and refuses to engage with it.
It would make sense if that hadn't happend already with Lune and Sciel.
With how magic works in the game, chroma itself has a record of the drawing's essence that is pulled from to create the people, the painter can influence it but doesn't define everything.
sees ghost
"I am a wandering spirit, condemned to roam the earth"
uhhhm aren't you dead? How can you be a ghost when you're dead?
ghost evaporates
blah blah blah kid verso is just like him blah blah blah you maintain the canvas you're just as bad as the family blah blah blah
copy verso would absolutely not give a shit
Maellefags will never have an argument against this point btw
I love that Verso literally recoils himsrlf after Alicia tells him "I'm still Maelle though". I guess she meant it as if "I'm still the girl you know", but Verso most likely interpret it as "oh, god, here we go again".
he's not suicidal about it until the very end of the game.
this was his goal from the begining you idiot
Maelle starts as player character but ends as NPC because I sided with Verso.
Which means Maelle, the real actual Maelle, dies at the end of Act 2
I support the Maelle ending and concede this is unecessary cruelty because Maelle is a cunt, nothing new here
Especially when he's not suicidal about it until the very end of the game.
what? he's been working to undermine the paintress for decades, knowing fully what it will do
I didn't play the game reddit reddit buzzword
High quality post, anon.
He gives a shit because Aline and Alicia are killing themselves over it.
Verso, as a character, is someone who is willing to give up his life to save them.
His painted self is a reflection of that so he is willing to die to save them. Killing other people is just a hop and a skip away from that.
Her whole goal was to live a lifetime with Verso that was denied in reality. If she unmake Verso, then what even is the fucking point of her being in the painting?
Your overthinking it, Aline just gave every members of the painted family special treatment which unintentionally made them immune to generalized Gommage effects as part of their immortality.
It takes a painter going to to them directly and unmaking them to kill them.
from the beginning
talks about all the cool shit he's going to do with friends and maelle's painting powers
it's called character growth, and they completely dismiss it
kek this
I'm not Verso, and you're not Maelle
you're right, you're not Verso
...
but I'm still Maelle doe :)
The way he immediately jumps off the bench. I adore all the little nuances you can appreciate a second time around
he should have been able to see this coming and prepared her for it
throw in the giant pile of reasons verso is a piece of shit
Clea literally explains that painted Verso, Alicia and Verso are immortal and unaffected by the gommage.
You need that extra personal touch to get rid of them, that's why Renoir had to step in to remove his painted version.
And painted Alicia still persisted after the Act 2 gommage, and real Alicia had to eventually wipe her out personally.
tha magical canvas is literally just a computer and the people inside is literally just 1's and 0's and are not alive!!!!
They don't dismiss it, its that Alicia is going to kill herself over it that causes him to reconsider again.
I mean there's multiple arguments against this
Verso deserved it
That's a new Verso Maelle made
Maelle tried to bring him happiness by letting him live a normal life where he can age and pursue his real passion as a musician. He said "I don't want this life, help me", so she gave him a new life.
Verso, as a character, is someone who is willing to give up his life to save them.
You fell for his lies.
The only thing Verso cares about is killing himself. It's the only thing he begs Alicia in her ending. His last moments where he still had free will were spent on asking her to unpaint him, not to leave Canvas
why are you a pedophile?
he who hides truths with lies
He was willing to let it play out. If she leaves it's okay, if she doesn't he has to kick her out. Best play to see both scenarios is to pretend to be on her side.
Verso is just smart.
Well everyone, the thread had like 2-3 hours of good discussion before the sctizos moved in.
He was suicidal because he was tired of “burying friends”. Supposing that he resolve Aline and Renoir’s issue, he can go back spooning with Monoco and going on adventure with the Esquie and Gestrals.
For a time, Alicia proposed a solution that doesn’t destroy his world, so he backed her up to the hilt, only to find out in the endgame that no, dear mum can still got in, and yes, Alicia is doing the exact same thing
The suicidal tendency came back with a vengeance, and Renoir just opened a portal to the nuke button
To Verso’s credit he is genuinely upset when his sister is killed by Maelle and throws a shitfit about painters ruining everything
Kill painters. Behead painters. Roundhouse kick a writer into the concrete. Slam dunk a writer baby into the trashcan. Crucify filthy authors. Defecate in a painters food. Launch painters into the sun. Stir fry painters in a wok. Toss painters into active volcanoes. Urinate into a painters gas tank. Judo throw painters into a wood chipper. Twist painters heads off. Report painters to the IRS. Karate chop painters in half. Curb stomp pregnant painters. Trap painters in quicksand. Crush painters in the trash compactor. Liquefy painters in a vat of acid. Eat painters. Dissect painters. Exterminate painters in the gas chamber. Stomp writer skulls with steel toed boots. Cremate painters in the oven. Lobotomize painters. Mandatory abortions for painters. Grind writer fetuses in the garbage disposal. Drown painters in fried chicken grease. Vaporize painters with a ray gun. Kick old painters down the stairs. Feed painters to alligators. Slice painters with a katana.
Schizos moved in as early as
He kept saying "I don't want this life", not "I don't want to live".
'this life' meaning a life where he's the reason his mom and sister will die.
When ironically it's his fault full throughout
Day of the Whiteout is coming for you (((Writers)))
Which is killing herself.
The game states multiple times that painters staying in a canvas for two long causes them to slowly wither away in the outside world with a clear example of it happening to her mom.
The Canvas is a lesser piece of realty and living a life within it is not living a true life for her, its dying at age 16.
Change that to "writers" as I marry Clea
WriterGOD...
Maelle is a cunt
She's been self centered even before she realized she was Alicia.
Why are you here? The others I understand but you have many more years ahead of you
The people in town call me a weirdo :(
Forgot about that, im dumb, pls disregard
The whole convoluted "you die in the painting" thing falls apart when Aline lived decades in Verso's canvas. And she states she can hop out and live a normal life when she's done there if she felt like it. Even if she was lying, she'd have a normal lifespan of years inside the canvas like she would on the outside.
It's a moot point brought about by shit writing.
It's a good reality to her. You don't get to dictate what a true life is for someone else.
Well she joined the expedition because she was crushing hard on Gustav and the only obstacle in her way (Sophie) just got literally moved out of the picture
Did you not see the state Aline was in when Renoir opened the window?
You sound like you need a therapist and a social worker to reintegrate you back into society.
Aline lived decades in Verso's canvas
In the painted world, sure. In the real world it was maybe a month tops.
nd she states she can hop out and live a normal life when she's done there if she felt like it.
Which she is lying about as shown by the ending sequence both before a after her ending.
an addict will come out to cough up blood for 20 minutes before jumping back in
I have a feeling that Maelfags are either women or trannies.
We play games together with my gf, and this was the only time when we almost had a fight what to choose, because "noo you will not kill millions of people in lumiere"
That was her own fault for what she did in the canvas. Clea said so.
I accept your concession.
And it matters because?
"noo you will not kill millions of people in lumiere"
It's a legitimate argument, only idiots ignore the trolley problem
nice projection faggot
If its a genocide argument anon, its actually a Lune Simp who was to fake a more noble reason.
If its a Escapism Anon then they need help.
I'm not joking anon you sound like you need help.
It's a non argument. Alicia had to be saved.
Giving up a universe worth of life is a small payment to save her.
you are not having fun. you are not under attack
The trolley problem doesn't matter because the game doesn't want you to care about the trolley problem.
No need to keep lowering yourself, I already acknowledged your bitch pose.
versos ending makes no sense whether you're moralfagging or not. he resented being associated with the actual family because he wasn't actually verso. the idea he'd care about painter verso's remnants is laughable. especially after spending all that time trying to kick the family out once deciding death wasn't freedom in Act 3.
Interesting discussion you got there
Alicia gave you a solution that didn’t need destroying the painting.
Source of this? I rewatched the scene and it seems to me that she was just wanting to be there for a time, only then she comes back to the real world, which is stupid since Renoir seems to not mind about that idea.
the future of Lumiere is more important than any individual life
Just ignore Act 1 yeah?
It was better until the thread hit bump limit, then all the regular sctizoes came out to play
It's a failure of the writing then,and butchering the transition of the story after the "twist"
storytelling has its own rules tho, no matter what set of rules, it has to follow it and has to work
No, you liking it either way or liking it "emotionally" doesn't make it well made.
Not sayign it's bad per se tho, just heavily flawed
Only idiots would struggle with this version of the trolly problem
kill someone you know and love
1000 randos
Can you really go to your little sister and go "sorry, that's 1000 people who I don't know who's lives are at stake"
2070
VR is as real as in ready player one
connect myself to a WoW server and spend thousands of hours in Stormwind
dad wants to disconnect me cause I am fading fast in a non real world, and I have a family which loves me
NOOO DAD IF YOU DISCONNECT ME THESE NPCS DIE THATS GENOCIDE, WHAT ABOUT LITTLE TIMY IN GOLDSHIRE NOO
he did actually consider realAline "family"
because she was his mother, there was no paintedAline
he saw his ACTUAL mother dying from paintercancer and had an epiphany that the canvas WILL kill his mother so he chooses to sacrifice himself (which is very Verso thing to do) to save his Maman
Giving up a universe worth of life is a small payment to save her.
Shut up Renoir
falling easily for this propaganda
Even Gustav was full on "fuck the expedition, I'm taking Maelle and getting the fuck out of here"
They are not real person. They are sentient insofar as the characters in this game made you cry and then it's over once you turn off your PC. They were not real.
Implying magic will be real in 2070
Lolwut
Ain't his sister. It's someone else's sister who sorta looks like her, and also the source of his eternal hell, and also explicitly tells him what he is doing is against her wishes.
So it still has a more than a few points to it.
shitty writing bros… not like this…
And then he got talked down by Lune pointing out that went against everything the expeditions stood for by his very own words.
She hid the painting behind her eyes when Clea was commenting on what she did
Didn’t work when Aline jumped back in anyway, which was why Verso went for the nuclear option
E33 doesn't outrageously break any basic rules, you are just bitching it's not cookie cutter marvel-tier slop
Videogames aren't real retarf
millions
It's thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands at best.
You can't convince me that belle epoque Paris had a population in the "millions" when modern day Paris is only at 2 million.
She hid the painting behind her eyes
Sorry mind to elaborate?
There are no computers in E33
Watch the cutscene when Alicia entered the painting, there was a scene when Clea commented on what she did and you see one of Alicia’s eye turning into the image of Verso’s canvas
Please tell me I did not imagine this…
she hid it in another canvas
yes, that's possible we see a fuckton of other canvases within Verso's canvas, it's all layered as fuck
the fact Aline found it so quickly is crazy
And then he got talked down by Lune
Other way around. Lune's "when one falls" speech happens before Gustave goes and tells her "protocol also states never go solo, which protocol are you going to break" because he was going to fuck off to look for Maelle.
Ironically, capeshit is the worse ones for breaking narrative structure.
The premise doesn't match the setup, the call to action doesn't resolve, the conclusion leads to another call to action and doesn't actually conclude. The character growth is circular for 'comedic effect'
One can imagine she can feel magic canvases and the essence of who makes them.
She is THE painter leader after all. She can likely do all forms of crazy shit.
He obviously didn't take Maelle back to Lumiere though so why do his momentary fears and regret matter?
The fact it's not joined together
It IS joined through Maelle/Alicia's character, endless foreshadowing from the prologue and the player getting attached to Canvas world. What do you think they should've done instead?
This thread is not organic. Who the fuck is paying you all, you fucking shills
Gustave never got talked down. He continued to break all types of protocol.
He died when they got 'the boat', since writers can't justify how he'd go along with taking on the Paintress instead of going back to Lumiere on the boat.
Take. Your. Meds. Anon.
Fuck off retard
verso ending is the only oucome that makes sense
You want shitty writing?
Maelle after Gustav dies : So if we wanna kill that bastard Renoir we have to kill the paintress? Okay.
Maelle, one battlefield later : WAAAAH why are you all continuing on to kill the paintress? Gustav is le dead, do you not have any humanity?
Bitch you just agreed to ending the paintress (which was the expeditions whole point anyway) to have your revenge. Why the fuck you being a chickenshit now?
Nobody speaks like that. Who is paying you
Your hands are not organic. There were replaced by machinery made by ((them)). You should tear the wires inside your hands. You can see blue wires if you just look at them closesly
Not really.
Don't have the 'bait and switch' and go forward with the 'slay the dragon' theme.
If they wanted to go with the Dessendres reveal, then they should of lead with Maelle looking for her family and downplay the expeditions and the 'for humanity' shit
I blame midwit youtube video essayists that convinced entire generation of lobotomyte ipad kids (zoomers) that it's good writing when a person acts like an unfeeling purely logical robot.
So you don't argue that there is connection, you just don't like "bait and switch", which doesn't even happen by the way - they still kill paintress. Got it.
The expeditions are the will of the paintress. Like someone posted in another thread, their mindset in their lack of awareness are Aline's wish to push through misery for a better future.
It is pretty cute when framed in context.
Nobody here is real. Youve been talking to yourself all this time anon ;)
Yes....? Don't do bait and switch if you want a cohesive story. Pick 1 or the other.
Wtf do you think bait and switches are?
There were no bait and switch, anon. Unless you think that any plot twist is bait and switch.
You read like someone who wrote the dumbass story for this game and can't handle basic valid criticism
I'm a lune simp and I go for the Verso ending hard. Even ignoring what's a happier ending it just makes for a better story.
Besides, all I have to do is join the writers and make a bad YA fanfiction to get the ending I want.
huh you dont hate X so you are X
You read like someone who gets assblasted when his incorrect opinions are challenged.
Ain't a happier ending. Exact same results.
Fine if you like that turnout better though.
Nah, that anon's right. They baited us with an adventurous cute redheaded loli and switched her with a ptsd riddled one eyed piece of bacon.
Ah so you don't know wtf you're talking about. Got it.
Consider this a free lesson:
A plot twist is a twist of the plot. Ie: Gustav's evil twin, or Lune was actually the paintress, or time travel being a thing.
A bait and switch is a change in cause and reasons. When your hook is swapped to something else. Ie:
Going from 'fight for humanity's survival' to 'how addiction and grief destroys families'
It subvert expectations. The second half makes sense on its own, at the expense of a shitty red herring that invalidates the first half.
when you argument is "if you don't like this, you literally like the extreme opposit" you are just arguing in bad faith, irrationally or not arguing at all.
Grow up. Someone my think that you are really impressed by this specifically because all you know is marvelshit
What opinion did I give other than you being a whiny bitch?
lol she looks like a little child throwing a tantrum after dad tells her playtime is over
Yes really if are at least barely literate
This will win GOTY and it's not a good thing
Sciel looks better.
little child throwing a tantrum
Lune
Are you for real nigga
Her entire story is that she has never lived her whole life, and right when she can finally be free she has to die
Yes, despite what you're saying (which is all true and I agree), the animation of her sitting down cross legged makes her look like a little kid throwing a fit, it's a very funny follow up to her death stare
if are at least barely literate
Not for you anyway, I see.
kek got his ass
You are as dumb as you are arrogant, illiterate faggot. You are still fighting for Lumiere at the very end of the game. It's entirely your choice whether you prioritise humanity in this world or it's demiurges. You are given a connection to Dessendre family via Alicia. And the game makes clear point that people inside Canvas are still real. You are the one who chooses whether you save them or if you care for painters family more. The plot twist expands on the universe of the game, it doesn't invalidate it. You just refuse to engage with the writing, because you decided it's bait and switch therefore bad.
Man, you are so wrong at so many spots I don't even know where to fucking start.
Enjoy the war Rajesh
High quality post. I accept your concession yada yada
bait and switch/subversion of expectation aren't twists. They are, to keep it simple, a dishonest twist that betrays the investment demanded by the storyteller in the first place
If you missed the points writers repeatedly make, because of your surface level reading and lost investment then it's on you not on them
you are still...
no, since those role in the story are completely subverted. It's a compeltely different story told with familiar characters who now have compeltely different motivations
lmao the audacity of calling other people illiterate while holding your opinion and being irrationally angry about it.
Notice how other anons, unlike, you are actually calm ad discussing
I didn't miss any point. You just want criticism to disappear because in your mind is an attack to your identity.
you are the literacy impaired one, here
She should be going for that nigger's throat in rage and being forced to kill her to go through
no, since those role in the story are completely subverted. It's a compeltely different story told with familiar characters
Again, the story expands on initial concept, it doesn't subverted, reread my post.
Notice how I actually make arguments instead of just stating claims.
I didn't miss any point.
Yes you did. Explain why you lost investment then? The characters aren't any less real in Act 3 then they were in Act 1.
The characters aren't any less real in Act 3 then they were in Act 1.
Not that anon but they are, specially now that I know that with a little chroma Alicia can just bring them back.
but she doesnt because she's a wee witlle baby wune
Not that anon but they are
Even painters themselves argue whether their creations have souls or not. There's no consensus and it should already tip you off. Moreover, you spend 2/3 of the game with your party members who are living breathing humans. If you think it's clear-cut "painted=fake" then you undoubtedly missed the points writers purposefully make. People of Lumiere are as real as painters themselves and it was a cruel and unfair act from Aline to paint them in the first place.
Even painters themselves argue whether their creations have souls or not
They're not. The painted critters themselves disagree with Verso's soul because the soul was from a kid Verso, who in his simplistic mind thinks everything inside and outside of the canvas are real.
If I were a painter, and I painted Lune the exact same way in two different canvases, which one is the actual Lune?
death stranding 2 by hidolf kojitler will be goty and will VVIN goty
You would not be able to paint the same Line even if you painted her surface details correctly because it would still be your interpretation of her. Even if it was the same person doing it twice, by then it would still have changed their mindset.
Thus, two different people with similar looks and names.
Oh so it's another case of "I didn't play the game", gotcha.
Lune and Sciel could be brought back specifically because Alicia grabbed their chroma minutes after they were gommaged from the place they were gommaged. The game makes a point of it. Alicia brings them back because their souls are in Canvas. The copies in another canvas would be copies.
The painted critters themselves disagree with Verso's soul because the soul was from a kid Verso, who in his simplistic mind thinks everything inside and outside of the canvas are real
Child says thing therefore it's automatically untrue is a cope. Verso's soul has enough maturity to recognise that Clea's point of view is as valid as his own. Writers speak through Verso's soul. You are not going to dismiss it because "uhh kids dumb"
Child says thing therefore it's automatically untrue is a cope
No, I'm saying that the child is pure and innocent, who hasn't had decades of shades of gray thrown into his life to shake that youthful optimism, ergo of course to him everything inside and out is real.
So what? He is not jaded and spiteful enough towards his creations therefore he is wrong? Besides the fact that his soul spent at least several decades and possibly centuries painting this world and getting tired of endless conflict and still after all that believing his creations have souls.