You dead free him right?

SING US THE SONG OF THE PIANO MAN
SING US A SONG TONIGHT

You dead free him right?

hi raj!

Fuck Marche. Go back to playing the piano.

How is immortality hell? I'd love to be immortal.

Also your game had a garbage tearjerker story.

I liked him in my first run but he’s honestly a bitch. He spends 70 some years like a nomad in the wilds, yeah maybe that would make you want to kill yourself, but then he meets a bunch of cool people and has a chance to save them all and be a hero and live a good life back in lumiere around people would would enjoy him, and still all he can think about is how much he wants to die, no matter how many people his selfish wants damn.

But I’m doing it for you Alicia, really!

Absolute bullshit. Selfish and self interested to the core. He is not the verso who gave his life to save his sister, he’s a poor copy. Still. Alicia shouldn’t have erased his sister like that, but given how he acted with gustave, he has no right to complain. I still like him as a character but I absolutely do not empathize with his self interest and lies.

No

has no problem killing your father and sister right in front of you

refuses to kill you though despite begging for it

what the HECK was the demiurges problem?

Renoir most certainly intended to kill painted Verso though, he said that to his face

I CAN HEAR YOU SHITTING
PAINT IS COMING OUT OF YOUR GODDAMN ASS

but I absolutely do not empathize with his self interest and lies

Yeah. I also found myself empathazing with Alicia much more. Because at least she has a legit reason to be depressed and miserable. Verso has this weird byronic weltschmertz that kinda makes him come off as a drama queen.

demiurges

Just Alicia. Renoir apologize the hell that Painted Verso went through and was about to give him oblivion until Alicia intervene.

Lune with this hair do things to me...

Verso, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it.

Piano or Stendahl, your pick.

You cannot convince me that Renoir, Painted Verso, Painted Alicia and Gustave couldn't have solved the game's drama and stop Maelle from going mad with grief.
That bastard Verso loves stopping people from fucking talking to each other

Have you watched Lost? That's what the characters are like. Dysfunction for plot's sake

Renoir (the real one) actually had Alicia dead to rights and could've sent her home at any point the story.
He just decided it's going to be funny to use his emotionally compromised, crippled daughter as a child soldier in his crusade against his wife. And then he's surprised she's not being cooperative.

But they couldn't
Alicia was already mad with grief the moment she took over Maelle and had her brother alive right next to her to ease her guilt.

his crusade against his wife

You mean saving his wife's life. I agree that it was wrong of him to bring Alicia into this mess, especially when the only reason she entered the painting was Clea telling her to bring Renoir back to help her fight the writers. But your framing of his motivation is still disingenuous

That would require Renoir talking to his wife and trusting her to paint out her feelings but he went in swinging because he's innately a control freak

trusting her to paint out her feelings

100 years and she was still grieving. She was killing herself and wouldn't stop.
You can force it all you want but Renoir is 100% right in his reaction to Aline.

There is literally a dialogue right after Gustave's death between Aline and Renoir, when she tells him to just send Alicia home, because it's too dangerous for her, and Renoir just goes "nah, it'll be fine". And keep in mind, it's Aline that hates Alicia.
So, he's as much a culprit in all of this as Clea.

Shit writing. he's only lived for 100 years.
That's not enough time to be begging for death unless you wanted to suicide before that anyway.

That's exactly what I said anon. Renoir is in the wrong for bringing Alicia into this mess. Clea is not at fault at all, she wanted Alicia to bring Renoir *out* of the painting. But Renoir's motivations for all of this were still strong and compelling. There's no contradiction here, he can still be in the wrong for that.

It's 100 years knowing you are a fake person and that your family is tearing itself apart because you exist and a painting "you" made.
So his life is just hell.

he just wanted death because… he hecking lived too long!

did you do a speedrun or just play the game through youtube?

Verso was always suicidal, that's why he was so eager to trade his for life Alicia. Renoir likely had suspicions, which is why his Axon is about masks

Clea is not at fault at all, she wanted Alicia to bring Renoir *out* of the painting.

How about you DON'T involve Alicia at all? She's not really in a very sound state of mind after all that happened and Clea only cares about getting Renoir back for her own reasons.

do retarded shit at home (last time you killed your brother)

go to a fake world and stay there

It was a good choice.

I gotta wonder, did anyone else just lose a lot of motivation once the twist was revealed? It just felt that "Okay, so none of these people are actually real, she's basically playing a video game" so obviously we wouldn't want her to stay in the game.
Even Verso is objectively not a real dude, and he knows it.

I go with the assumption that they are very real, otherwise the stakes become an afterthought.
Verso's ending is still the right one of course.

I BEAT SIMON by cheesing him with maelle, it was the only way

He's a liar, a manipulator and a cunt in general.
He fully deserves the piano.

They are sentient living beings, how are they not real? If God exists, are we real?

No, not really. At that point I became super-invested in Alicia and her plight, so I was still motivated.
Although, I really didn't like how the game decided to take sides at the very end instead of making both endings morally grey.

i wanna genocide everyone because I'm just the regular kind of suicidal that comes with having a shitty life.

Tough shit. most anons here a "fake persons" in that they don't matter to anyone and they are not able to be part of normie society without faking it.
Doesn't mean you start thinking it's right to kill everyone.

Filtered.

No. You're the only one.

I beat him with verso gun build and Sciel/Monokko support stun abuse.
I would've loved to try to do him normally but I put all my Lumina into those three and I cba grinding Lumina for hours so my backup team is able to finish him.

Can definitely confirm that, the story loses all stakes in act 3.
I was only able to finish it because of Maelle oneshot ability effectively eliminating combat from the game so it didn't take much time or effort. I've heard they've deleted this ability, and I think the completion rate will drop after that.

but you didn't beat the game

I genuinely fucking wish I didn't beat this game.

Filtered

I was on his side until he revealed that he let Gustave die on purpose.

I got him to Phase 3 without cheese, and then he just sent my main party to the nether and left me with my unprepared sub-party. I cheesed him after that; as far as I'm concerned, he cheesed me first. I was not cheesed to meet him

Just because god is real, it doesn't mean you are suddenly fake. Plus, they have it pretty good in the canvas.

If I found out I'm just a painted version of a dead me and my sister is killing herself so she could spend time with me, I would be in favor of destroying the entire painting too.

Listen Renoircucks, you believe that these Canvas people should get deleted and suffer because he is their god amirite? Well I'm his god, motherfuckers, I make the decision to have his daughter stay in the Canvas to make him suffer for killing the characters I invested so many hours in. How's that, faggota? It's not so funny anymore huh?

If he hadn't done that, we would have unironically gotten a golden ending.
The motivations of most of the cast align with each other, the Lumierians would very much like to live, Painted Verso to die, Renoir to take his family out. Just don't hit Maelle/Alicia with the double cross uppercut of losing her adopted brother and her real brother, and you can all kick Aline out together.

How do you get Alicia out of the painting if she's still Maelle who is strongly attached to the still-alive Gustave?

Maelle got overly attached to Gustave post mortem. Before his death, she loved him clearly, but she left with E33 because she didn't feel like she belonged in Lumiere at all.

Forcibly. Just like painted Renoir did.

Gustave himself would make her leave after learning the truth. Ideally on good terms (ie. come back and visit every once in a while, the same way real Verso and Clea would pop in to play with Esquie).

The moment the Dessendres are out of the painting Renoir goes to Verso's soul and snaps his paintbrush in half. There's no "visiting once in a while"

Gustave wouldn't be able to convince her entirely on his own, but her better state of mind would make her agree to leave. Gustave couldn't even get her to stay in Lumiere. But that same reason is why she would live. With Gustave still alive she would still have that feeling of not belonging instead of being blinded by grief.

Threatens to destroy the canvas to ensure no one can enter it again

Daughter throws a temper tantrum (to the point of defacing public property)

"Alright, I'll let you stay here and slowly kill yourself the same way your mother just tried to"

Renoir's soft. He won't do shit.

I have a feeling Gustave would at least take his time to empathize with her, unlike Verso and Renoir who immediately deem her as unreasonable - even though they are the reasons behind it to begin with.

He lied to her, just like she lied to him. Regardless "I'll leave the lights on for you" doesn't mean he'll keep it permanently, just for however long she still needs to stay, and once she leaves he will destroy the painting.

I mean Maelle would 100% create a painting on her own, that won't be nearly as good as Verso's. So might as well keep this one imo

"Alright, you can bring all these people back to life and play with them for a bit"

"But once you're done I'm going to kill them all"

WTF why won't she leave?

I said he was soft, not an idiot

You just know that if Clea finds out about what happened and finds an opportunity to destroy the canvas, she's going to go in to fuck everything up regardless what renoir/Alicia says, so the parents can go to war for vengeance.She is the cold reasonable one.

turns out real Verso died for nothing to save his sister because she is retarded

Expeditions 32 onward will be yearly excursions to fight off Clea's increasingly powerful abominations. She'd enjoy it

You said he won't do shit, but he will. He conceded to her because he was just defeated by her, Aline's interference probably broke his will to fight and he gave up. So he did what he could to have a final embrace for her, perhaps deluding herself that she really will leave the painting at some point. But it's pretty obvious that if she left the painting, he would still destroy it.

i wish i was immortal

Clea never liked her sister to begin with. Can't even imagine how much she hates Alicia after Verso died for her

cold reasonable one

i'll just send my disabled sister to a perfect wonderland for a few years. hopefully she doesn't get too attached to it like my mother. teehee~

Well, she lied to him, because he absolutely failed to make his point. Renoir's arguments weren't convincing even me, not to mention Alicia herself.
"Alicia, you'll die" and "I want my family back" are not the arguments that will appeal to her, given that she told him at the start that there is not out there for her in the real world. So, she literally doesn't care if she lives or dies in the real world. At that point, Renoir really should've tried to convince her that combing back to the real world has merit for her, but he never did. So, yeah, this conversation wasn't going anywhere to begin with.

t. didn't beat the endless tower

I did, so what?

Then you should have seen that Clea shows her respect and approval of her sister.

Clea never liked her sister to begin with

She loves her family and helps them in the only way possible: being a belligerent cunt holding the whole thing together because the rest of them are sentimental retards

Did you talk to Clea afterwards?

Clea is the one that uses bullying masked as "tough love". She thinks she's fixing things with her no-nonsense attitude, but in reality, she just makes Alicia more resentful.
There is a reason most psychologists consider tough love as a form of abuse.

hates the sister?

Literally the hauler putting the weight of the family on her back.

From her perspective in the real world, Alicia entered the painting, a few moments later Aline was kicked out, then Aline re-entered the painting, then the entire family walked out, then the painting is destroyed.
Cold, reasonable one.

Yea, he should've at least acknowledged her growth as a paintress or maybe went with an angle that Clea could die fighting against the Writers while they're inside the painting.
I don't think Alicia cares that much about Clea but her guilt for killing Verso would probably steer her towards trying to prevent someone else from dying because of her.

Psychologists should try replicating a study for once if they want me to take them seriously

She respected Alicia for managing to beat the endless tower but that's about it. I don't remember her saying anything about forgiving the fact that Verso died for her. In fact she even says that she was closer to him than Alicia/Maelle ever was

If she had to pick which would have died she never would have picked Alicia over Verso

Also there's literally a track called "Clea! Don't Pull Your Sister's Hair!"
Clea played with Verso her whole childhood and created the painting with him. Alicia was too young at that time. There's no way Clea doesn't hate her sister

you've made great strides since i saw you last. don't go backwards

the only thing you owe them is to live a life you enjoy

Why would someone who hates her sister tell her that?

She literally give Alicia a little pep talk about how she should make her own decisions and live her own life, rather than getting embroiled in their parents' spat. You're correct that Clea liked Verso a lot more, but that doesn't mean she hates Alicia.

We don't really have a reference on how the time dilation works between the inside/outside world.
We can assume that it's not as rapid as you make it out, since Alicia at least slept after her parents entered the painting (we also don't know how long they had already been in there).
But assuming that at least 8 hours passed and inside the painting 67 years went by, we can roughly map 1 hour to 8 years. That is if they went into the painting right before Alicia went to sleep.
If we are being more moderate and assume they went inside a couple days ago, then we would be already down to 1 hour = 1 year.
In any case, it wouldn't appear that Alicia jumped in and out since she spent 19 years inside the painting, so even at the fastest that would be at least 2 hours in the real world.
In the worst case weeks or even months could've gone by between her entering and coming out again.

it should be possible to calculate based on Verso's death.

33 December.

maff is too hard, someone do it.

Yeah, I don't think guilt-tripping your depressed daughter that's already been guilt-tripped to hell and back by her mother and sister is going to help much.
He could've at least acknowledged that Alicia was also a victim in this accident and it's not just about Verso, and the family will be there for her when she needs them. Because as we see and read in the journals, everybody was so fixated on Verso, that they forgot about Alicia, who was left to cope with her trauma on her own.
And that's the worst case scenario right there. You have to not deal with the fact that you are now a cripple for life at the age of 16 and your family not only doesn't care, they blame you for it. And you can't even mouth back, because you're a mute.
That's a borderline "I have no mouth and I must scream" moment.

That little pep talk doesn't prove much...
Verso died for Alicia and Clea herself said in the first epilogue that she doesn't know whether she loves or hates him for that.
Remember, Clea wants Maelle OUT of the painting so that Aline loses. Hence why she tries to tell her to leave the painting and "live her own live". Even if Alicia doesn't have much of one outside of it
And Clea's probably right anyway

We can't really calculate it since their fictional calendar has more than 31 days, we know it's at least 33, but it could be more.
Also we don't know at which date they went in/out of the canvas.

The length of a day can also be longer or shorter

I said this already a few days ago, but I wish I had a sibling like Clea. Instead me and my big brother don't talk with each other for 15 years

Yeah. I don't think Clea's going to have enough will and patience to now take care of her disabled sister. She will most likely just shove her aside and tell her to get over it.
Or tell her to take her of herself, because we are only treating you like a child if it's convenient for us.

Your bother has been waiting just as long to hear from you as you have from him

I don't.
In fact I probably would've smothered her with a pillow if she tried to get uppity around me.

Of course I did. Maelle or preferably her mother - who painted the Lumerians in the first place - can just create a new canvas with the same setting without building it on top of Verso's soul being stuck in a personal purgatory...

Hard to explain why but not really because the setting keeps its magical elements even with the reveal, by that I mean that even outside the Canvas, it's not our reality so the "Can we consider the Canvas people real people?" debate is absolutely irrelevant given that the Dessendre also are part of "It's not reality so they are fake people!" conundrum.
In my eyes it's different from, let's say, Star Ocean 3's reveal since its own plot twist has its "fake world" generated by pure hard science from our future or other games where it's just a character from our reality dreaming about shit, here's there's still a layer of separation between the game and "reality".

Verso, both versions, are drama whores making mountains out of inconveniences they could easily handwave and refuse to try any options outside of killing themselves at the first opportunity so what he feels isn't really important to the overall argument.

That's the best way I can explain it because I usually hate the "There's an upper reality!" reveals in games but that one absolutely didn't bother me.

What are the odds of both Versos developing into habitual liars despite growing up in entirely different circumstances? Paìnting and piano were both Alines fortes. I'm beginning to think the reason he "willingly sacrificed" himself for his sister is because it's the one choice his mother would never make.

The game implies real Verso was actually depressed and miserable, but hiding under the mask of a "cool boy".
The Dessandre's were pathological way before his death. But it only resurfaced after his death.

I sure did.
Renoir was right, and he's the only person to cope with Verso's death in the healthiest of ways.

Verso is a character made for endless bullying

There is a reason most psychologists consider tough love as a form of abuse.

Psychologists can't consider a thing if they refuse to study it in order to refute the claim.

It’s not about immortality, just didn’t want to live in the fake world

Maelle made him able to age in her ending. So he will die eventually regardless.
Verso has literally nothing to complain about.

This is Renoir projecting.
Aline is not the one that turned into a mass murderer.

my sister turned into my puppet so I can die while she actively kills herself

yes

Maybe Aline should have been reasonable instead of making up fake people and then refuse to come out until she died.
They don't really care much about the canvas people anyway, and that's the correct perspective they should have.

Die. Have your chroma recycled. Live again.
Yay...

If Aline goes to Hawaii, Renoir shouldn't just nuke the shit out everyone who lives there because it MIGHT make her come back.

Based and same.

Being in Hawaii doesn't slowly kill her retard.

You've obviously never heard of skin cancer.

Being in Hawaii doesn't automatically means she's spending all day outside tanning you retard. Your analogy was stupid, you're stupid, stop posting.

Aline is not the one that turned into a mass murderer.

They'd have to be real in the first place for it to be murder, all the people in the canvas were made by Aline and her mental illness

he will die

PAINTED verso will die, but his soul forever remains painting with no chance of death in sight

All she needs to do is touch grass every now and then, retard. You will die too if you spend 24 hours playing a video game

And she doesn't, which is why Renoir goes in after her, retard.

Being in the painting doesn't automatically mean she'll die either. Clea tells us that both of them have spent a lot longer inside paintings than this one. So all of this conflict is simply because Renoir doesn't trust his wife.

Renoir is just a retarded person who thinks that genociding Hawaii is going to make his wife come back, when the problem isn't Hawaii, the problem is HIM.

Everyone calls her a cripple

Has no movement impairments--just muteness, missing an eye, and facial scarring

Am I missing something? That would still be plenty to get by with, especially in the early 1900s.

As a cripple I don't accept Alicia as one of my people.

Alicia owes it to Verso to live in the real world
She also has to help bring the Writers to justice

She can always git gud and repaint Lumière or at least Esquie and the Gestrals in another Canvas so they exist again somewhere. The fact that you can do this but can't do this with real people proves that real people have priority.

People call her miserable when she's smiling to Clea right before that.

She said that it hurts to even breath.

Being in the painting too long will, which is why he goes in after. Renoir himself even said that he almost lost himself in a painting and it was Aline he rescued him, so he's just following the lesson he learned from her.
Again, you are stupid, stop posting.

So everyone over 40 with a smoking habit is a cripple now?

she is cooked on the inside too, with fucked lungs she is one bad flu away from croaking

It's a recent burn, that should actually heal with time.

Renoir himself even said that he almost lost himself in a painting and it was Aline he rescued him, so he's just following the lesson he learned from her

Yeah, so Renoir is just projecting his own weakness onto his wife.

she can't breathe properly so I assume she can't walk/run too far either without hurting

*screams internally*

Am I being trolled?

Verso?

I hardly knew him

In a bout of the devs' autistic attention to detail, she actually has a different soundset to Maelle. She sounds way more pained when running/jumping/climbing, because y'know, it hurts like hell.

Sciel asks Esquie if he's got any wine after the Lampmaster fight in Act I

You just know Verso was standing behind some rock with his asshole puckered hoping Esquie wouldn't spill the beans.

Verso's room was nice, showed all his inspo.

It get better, because she actually asked Gustave and Lune, but it was Esquie that reacted first.

Oh yeah, that would make more sense.

People used to pay for lobotomy to make their women silent.

knocked Aline out of the canvas

knocked Renoir out of the canvas

knocked Alicia out of the canvas

ensured family heals and moves on

ensured Clea is happy in the epilogue

Yep, I'm thinking based

I don't care.