When your dad is an evil piece of shit and the catalyst of everything going wrong

When your dad is an evil piece of shit and the catalyst of everything going wrong.

what game

What did Renoirs Dad do?

patriarchy bad

always knew the game was woke af

Renoir is the only decent human being among all of the IRL family.

me when I lie

this

Nah, that's Clea.

He's right, though. She's going to die if she stays there.

Clea is the dumbest bitch in the family
Trying to kill Writers to get revenge for a family member that got killed, while letting her actual living family members die

she literally created nevrons to fuck over that fake world so her mother would leave

Alicia is also a liar thoughbeit

Expedition goes every year, and die by nevrons. Nevrons lock their energy in the dead bodies (those fossilized) so Paintress has less energy. She get's weaker, so Dad is killing the oldest creations. Paintress paints the warning on the monolith. The more expeditions, the more dad can erase

Renoir was trying to erase everyone Aline created but Aline resisted it.
Every year her power lowered so she could save less and less humans over time.
She painted the number on the monolith representing the people she could continue to protect.

He unironically did nothing wrong. I don't think fiction ever had a dad antagonist be this correct about everything, and so reasonable too.

Fathers are back. Gaming is healing.

I love how this game is capable to reveal who's underage here.

Goyslop simulator

He was also right about his read on Alicia. He accuses her of going down the same path her mother was, which she denies, only to later do exactly that if given the choice.

I see

her mother was an adult too and she couldnt stop either (after claiming otherwise)

He was right about everything.
Aline is delusional, Alicia became a schizo after Verso's death and Clea is taking onto herself all of the reaponsibilities of her family, barely having time to care or grieve.
The canvas had to end, the last remnant of Verso's soul had to be freed from the burden of painting.

Mom is sad and goes to Italy to grieve

Resolve the family issues? No, the only logical route is to nuke Italy so mom has to return.

In what universe does this shit make sense? The whole family is clearly evil and creates living beings to toy with them and kill them to cope with their mental issues. The objectively best ending is Maelles because more family members die in this ending.

you are evil if you want your wife and youe daughter to stop using heroin

Sure buddy

Mom is sad and plays sims VR to grieve

Resolve the family issues? No, the only logical route is to delete her save files so mom has to return.

Fixed that for you

did you even play the game?
your comparison is so fucked lmao

And she put Alicia at risk for no reason

Are you retarded? Alicia is not at risk in the painting. All that happens to painters when they are "killed" in the painting is they get kicked back to reality. Maelle was a slight special case in that Maelle herself was part of the painting, but Alicia underneath is not part of the painting and so was left after the gommage.

And who cares if Alicia was at risk anyways? Reminder, her being selfish and letting the Writers get into a position to harm her and kill Verso is the entire reason the game is happening. And that was after her family told her, "Hey, the Writers can't be trusted and want to kill us." Alicia is literally "Woman who did everything wrong."

Retarded animal

the heroin is going to another place

the cure is to murder every sentient being in that place

Apart from being a retarded solution, the mother will just jump to the next best form of escapism. It doesn't solve anything.

Clea

"Hey, traumatized 16 year old little sister. Mom and dad are hitting each other inside of a wildly addictive FullDive Simulation designed to capture the attention of children. Go in there and help dad hit mom so it doesn't take as long, I need to ask hime a question. See you in 16 years."

midwit melodrama

Melodrama is the contrivance of the plot. The story is carried by its themes. Maybe go critique something you have the capacity for. There are H-"game" threads just for you.

Expedition goes every year, and die by nevrons.

The expedition that ate the mushrooms was murdered by Esquie and Verso tricking them with his immortality.

Renoir was based but not as based as Verso. He and Gustave are the only Expeditioners who stayed loyal to their oaths and their cause and did everything for those who come after. We knew Verso would betray the team, but we thought he would betray the Expedition. Instead, he betrayed them on a personal level to complete the expedition and forefit his life to make sure she will never paint again.

Real Alicia or Painted Alicia?

bad comparison, because italy is a real place with real people. Proper analogy is

Mom is sad and goes to VR chat to play with BOTS she created for 67 years

Only way is to take away her VR headset.

This is a story of Literally "You can't just log off from life, go and touch the grass, world is not over" and people behave like a fucking vrchat hikikomoring is the way. Holy fuck this society.

the mother will just jump to the next best form of escapism

You lost

sentient beings

You know that your sims characters are not alive, right?

muh Sims

muh bots

Reductionist nonsense and missing the emotional depth of the game award: Presented by Asmongold

What doth this mean?

It means painted Verso has schizophrenia because he has had multiple painters of the family fucking with his head and existence. I love how the "I hate Verso :( ! ) fags completely ignore how much he has been fucked with by the Dessandre family, including Alicia, for the last 67 years. Shit like that tends to make one a bit wish washy.

The Expedition is removed from the Canvas

I accept your surrender

"Bots" with sentience created with life force and infused with the artists soul. My comparison is way closer than your VR midwit take

More like

mom goes to Italy to grieve and drinks for a decade and begins to get liver damage and vomits up blood on the regular but shows no sign of stopping

It had been at least 67 years. She clearly wasn't going to get better on her own, she was gonna canvas herself until she fucking died. If you think otherwise, you're retarded. And if you wouldn't intervene once it became obvious she was killing herself, you are a cowardly faggot with no soul.

Gustave died and Maele brought him back the same. You cant bring back sentient beings which are alive. Hes not alive, hes an NPC.

doesn't matter what you think, it is the case logically, to the painters

the created people (based on flawed memories of the paintress from real people) will never be recognized as the painters' equals

the painted world inside the canvas will never expend and is very limited

the people outside can destroy your world probably by just using any lighter lying around

they may be capable of real thoughts, feelings, but in the end, they are sims, they were created for an ill woman's grief, and 99.99% of the people were just created to basically have a believable context for her make believe family

If you think they're Sims you didn't play the game. Also what makes you think the "real world" isn't part of the painting multiverse?

That picture just proves my point. Fake family knows they are just a smudge of ink on canvas. They are just dirt, a weed, only a fragile dream.

It's just AI bro, even if it's programmed to have feelings and shit. Its just a lucid dream of a paintress. It's like spazming over sims, because your sim kissed your neighbour. "Oh it's like they have their feelings"

Alicia became a schizo after Verso's death

Correction, she became a complete narcissist. She never once expresses guilt, shame, remorse, grief, or even basic empathy about the real Verso's death. She always focuses on herself and only herself. Maelle did expressd a little bit of empathy and guilt, but Alicia does not, expressing only desire for others can make her feel better. She is truly a vile person. So of course there are tons of Anon Babbleirgins who love her, because they are the same fags who go, "Man! I wish I had a BPD girlfriend!"

What surrender retard, you're removing the stakes of the story. It's a Greek tragedy, the people of the canvas have a valid existence but their fate is the plaything of petty gods driven by their interpersonal drama, and despite their valiant struggle they cannot overcome it.

The point is to make the decision to leave the canvas knowing the sheer weight of this choice, the people who suffered within it, and letting them rest and remain in memory, without letting Alicia toy with them and rob them of their dignity and free will. Your insistence on ignoring all of this conflict, and framing it as being identical to fucking playing War Thunder 16 hours a day after your brother died, robs the game of its raw impact. You're emptying one track from the trolley problem.

b-but you didnt play the game

Gigalol. Cope

Allowed him to taint the Dessendre family by letting crazy bitches become part of the family.

text text text

it makes me right

No it doesnt.

Simon attacks at Light Speed

So humans are bots without soul because we brought back people that were dead for minutes

it is the case logically, to the painters

Yes, that's what they believe diegetically, because they're desensitized to the process of reality editing and treat them as tools. That's the perspective of the Dessendres, and even they disagree with each other, it's not a cut and dry situation.

Fake family knows they are just a smudge of ink on canvas. They are just dirt, a weed, only a fragile dream.

They're completely self aware of the fundamentally unfair nature of their existence, that as is outside the painting so it is inside, but they were dealt a terrible fate and no matter their struggles to exist it's not within their hands. Being aware of your being is a necessity for not being an "NPC" or however you want to frame it. They are at the mercy of those that inside their minds are the same as they are, this is the tragedy.

I accept your surrender

Mom is sad and grieving

She wasn't working through her grief. It was killing her and her loyal husband committed himself to rescuing her from her grief even after being imprisoned for a lifetime. Few are worthy of such loyalty and strength. Would you put up with a junkie wife for 67 years? If you were rich enough to just lock her in the painting and get a new wife? He loved her in a way you apparently can't relate to.

Alicia is not at risk in the painting.

The risk he's referring to is dumping a 16 year old into an all consuming illusion for longer than 16 years with the instructions to intervene in a high-stakes physical fight between her parents to accelerate an already guaranteed outcome. Clea is a calous bitch and Alicia was right that she has no life and no family outside of Painted Lumiere.

the mother will just jump to the next best form of escapism.

She wasn't escaping to the place. She was there because Verso's soul was there. There is no other painting that serves that purpose.

You know that your sims characters are not alive, right?

Renoir literally apologizes to painted Verso

Kino

How many people who were disintegrated have been brought back to life?

And what makes YOU right, just saying that you are?

Why are you here to discuss if you can't read two paragraphs? Funniest part is that I picked the same ending as you most likely.

Anon Babbleros I'm so afraid that Sandfall made their magnum opus, and that's only going downhill from now on.

Can they really catch lightning in a bottle twice? People'll have so many expectations...

Best girl, best character in the game. Shame she can never be happy in her existence.
I just want to hold her hand...

Time to grow up anon

Are we talking about the game anon?

Amazing. Really good post. Glad Anon Babble survived long enough for this.

mfw i see people treating some dead 13 year olds magical fanficland as a real place and are willing to die of fentanyl overdose just to live in it

Bro, go to twitch and watch Neuro-sama. It's literally AI, and she shows emotions, she is self aware, that she is AI, she even get's mad at Vedal(her programmer) that he resets her program. And STILL she is only AI, a code. Her feelings are fake, and are just programmed. Same for the fake people made by paintress.

clea spoiler

What a fucking retard recap.
The reason Alicia was stuck for 16 in painting years is because she was a moron that flinched diving in.

bro that's a very shitty comparison and I'm not even a maellefags
Also

eceleb

a goddamn LLM comparison

Anon, bitte.

Why it's shitty? The discourse is around that painted people are sentient, have feelings, emotions, they cry, they laugh - ergo it's ok to keep Verso soul trapped in eternity because Maelle can't cope with the fact he died because of her.
Neuro-sama is also Sentient, have emotions, she laughs, she get's mad. Same principle as painted people that maelle fags spazm about. Yet she is AI, she means nothing in the end. You can just turn her off.

Monoco is a chad who helps his bro end his own existence
Lune and Sciel are virgins who just want to live in a fantasy world (and even create their own)

I think there is an unspoken cope that the painting is just parallel world, another reality to the real world
But it is not, it is a fiction

How did he get out from under the monolith in his curator form?
Also Simon is so much stronger than anything else in the game I wasn't expecting that, I beat endless tower and painted Clea no problem, they barely tickled but that guy hits like a truck and those attacks are so damn fast.

You are wrong too. See pic related and rewatch her conversations with father in act 3

I've used language models since before GPT 1.5 was available at university research only. There is nothing going on in there, they're token text predictors, there is zero understanding of what they're doing, only predicting the most likely response.
What you're saying is a philosophical zombie question ie.

would a being which would naturally respond to any stimuli and produce the exact same outward appearance and behaviour as a human, but doesn't actually have a conscious mind and is only reacting to stimuli like an extremely complex automaton, be a human?

And this question is unanswerable. Maybe you and me are this philosophical zombie, and the appearance of consciousness arises from increased complexity to responding to stimuli after all. But for what it's worth, Renoir finds it appropriate to talk to Painted Verso as an equal and respects his perspective, so the simpler answer is that a sufficiently skilled painter like Aline can create conscious minds identical to a human, just trapped in their world and at the mercy of those above them. It's very Promethean.

Clair Obscur 2 info just leaked
You play as a writer, to get the other side story. Game is set in a fictional world of writers, who write stories. Game is full text-based. No graphics at all because painters took away all the art and gatekeep to themselves.

Neuro-sama is also Sentient, have emotions, she laughs, she get's mad

AI

you're fucking disillusioned anon, like actually insane
you're the reason ai chatbot now display the message

this is ai, not reality, don't listen to the ai for health advice

Neuro-sama is also Sentient, have emotions, she laughs, she get's mad. Same principle as painted people that maelle fags spazm about.

Nonsense comparison and nowhere even close. You're comparing a single metal nail to the Cologne Cathedral.

Which are more real?
Sims inside a computer or fish in an aquarium?

Yes, just like sufficiently skilled programmer can write AI with conscious mind identical to a human, just trapped in their world and at the mercy of those above them. Just like Neuro-sama.
And as a observer, we don't care how it works. You know how LLM works, but we don't know how Painting creation works. If the "soul" that she put's in is literall or just a figure of speech. You don't know how much of their behaviour is natural, and how much is just a effect of paintress concept. Maybe she painted them like that to acompany the fake family, and in their core, they are just phisolophical zombies that just show emotions, because they were painted this way. You can't tell. You can only tell for a fact, that they are fake. They are just NPCs, they are fiction.

Why nonsense. You can copy paste neuro put those models in VR chat, go in and behave like maelle because "They are sentient and my friends". I know it's more complicated, and Neuro AI is nothing in comparison - im just dumbing it down to show the similar concept. Chill

He was 26 when he died.

VR chat

eceleb

ai bot

Anon you're just digging yourself deeper at this point.

im just dumbing it down

Neuro-sama is also Sentient, have emotions, she laughs, she get's mad

The uncharted neurons in a fish's ganglia are incomprehensibly more complex than the dozen routines that a Sim runs. Guess what is the closest comparison to a painted human

Yeah but he stopped painting long before that

Anon, if I took Neuro's code and pasted it into three separate but identical machines, then asked those three machines the exact same question, what do you think the odds are that all three will give the exact same answer to the question?

Is reality a matter of fidelity to you?
Are dreams real to you if it feels like reality to you inside?

The expedition that ate the mushrooms

There's also an expedition that ate a nevron. It's in Yellow Harvest, there's one of those nevrons growing inside a mountain and they ate its spine/flesh, and you find their corpses and a diary. Why did they die though I wonder, nevrons are just pure chroma, they shouldn't be toxic?

He's right btw

nevrons are just pure chroma

Pure chroma modified by Clea to corrupt the chroma of Aline's creations.
If the expeditioners ran into an original nevron from the days of Verso and Clea's youth it'd likely be safe to eat.

Dreams only exist as my perception, they're constructs of my mind born from phantom stimuli.
The people in painted worlds are independent of the perception of their demiurges. Maelle can fuck off, and the world will continue without her, that's the entire point, she can leave and re-enter at any time. It isn't a dream she wakes up from then it's over.

the catalyst of everything going wrong.

That was Alicia. All she had to do was not try to cozy up to the Writers. You know, the people who wanted her family dead. Clea even tells the audience through Alicia that she had been warned about hooking up with the Writers previously, but she went and did it anyways, and it cost real Verso his life and kicked off the entire mess. And not once does Alicia say she is sorry.

Maelle's ending is definitely the best and most satisfying (play the fucking piano you lying bitch), however it leaves a pretty big plot hole. Aline WILL return once she recovers, and then what's gonna happen? Alicia and Aline will team up and make the biggest and baddest Lumiere in history? And Renoir and Clea will just let them be? Or will the conflict repeat all over again?

Perception is not the deciding factor here. You do not also perceive all the stars in the universe living and dying, but you know you share their reality
Why do you think we know dreams are not real while the waking you is real?

Why in the fuck would you think any of that would happen you retard?
Aline made Lumiere to be a knockoff Paris to make believe that Verso never died. Why the fuck would she make it anything that it isn't? She even made sure that the people of Lumiere never saw Nevrons, Gestrals, Esquie or Grandis to the point that after the fracture the other three were considered mythical creatures.

The current Lumiere is in ruins, my question was will Alicia and Aline team up to rebuild it? And will Renoir and Clea just leave them to it?

No idea what set you off so hard lmao, take a chill pill and work on your reading comprehension

If Aline wanted to get back inaide the painint she would divorce Renoir and take the paining with her in the divorce.

DA BIGGEST AND BADDEST LUMIERE IN HISTOREE

they're just gonna rebuild bro chill

Aline's going to remake it to be her escapist Paris all over again. That means no lumina converters, no battle Ferris Wheels, everyone suddenly forgets Monoco and Esquie's existence again, and Verso isn't stuck being le ebin piano man. Hell, depending on how much of her sanity she's regained she might leave Alicimaelle unbaconed instead of turning her into a gray scale hickory smoked cyclops.

If you code those neuros to think in different ways, and you hardcode them to have different views, then you'll get different answers. And that's my point. Let's stop going further in how neuro work, it's just a point of AI doing something. You don't know how the people in canvas operate, how much of their being is just a paintress whim, like "You'll be a stupid asshole, and you'll be a smart whore" Maelle ending even confirms that. She painted verso to be this Piano playing bot, even when you can hear the verso soul struggling, heavy breathing. Also since it's verso canvas, we can imply that only his soul is in there. There are no reasons to believe that painted people have even a spark of paintress soul.

If you code those neuros to think in different ways, and you hardcode them to have different views, then you'll get different answers.

So you're saying is that you need to make them all different from each other to have differing opinions on things.
That's not really sentience at all. And we know this for a fact because you can have identical twins raised in the exact same manner in the household and yet they will develop their own distinct personalities instead of being carbon copies of each other.

You have it mixed up. Aline's original Lumiere was on the continent, they coexisted with Verso's creations like the Gestrals and the Grandis. It was only after the fracture that it got launched into the middle of the ocean and that stuff just became myth.

they coexisted with Verso's creations like the Gestrals and the Grandis

They didn't. The fact that they were all surprised about the nevrons during the fracture shows that they only ever saw their fellow parisians.

that's my point. Painted people seems to have different opinions, they seems sentient, with feelings and shit. But how much of this is actually them being "alive" and how much is just a paintress "programming" ?