What's the point of these glorified cat mario games other than being grifting material for streamers and tubers?

There's a reason why arcade games got phased out.

I'll take the bait but Rain World and Noita have very limited amounts of "haha GOTCHA try again from really far back now faggot" moments believe it or not. They respect your skill and knowledge of the game. In fact they arm you with lots of knowledge which you can use to risk going deeper in and going to new places. Never played F&H but from my friends I've heard it's just bullshit trial and error for the first couple hours until you figure out the "right" thing to do in order to make any progress, which is gay as fuck. And PPR is the same shit except it disguises the bullshit under "BB-B-B-BUT IT'S AN OPEN WORLD SANDBOX GAME SO EVERY TRIAL IS SELF-IMPOSED" so I agree with half of this image.

Those are all dead genres that no one plays anymore. Roguelikes have been entirely taken over and replaced by more casualized versions full of metaprogression that makes it easy to go through the game after a few runs of getting upgrades. The only people pretending to play these games in modern times are pretentious hipsters.

Having a shitty knowledge check is part of the problem. Good games don't punish you over and over again until you read a wiki that tells you how to trivialize the game.

I'm fairly sure a good amount of devs enjoy seeing their players suffer. They enjoy it doubly so knowing that there will be no consequences for that.

They don't respect their intelligence. Learning is already an abrasive process, to make it any more abrasive is simply masochism. There's no other reason or purpose to it. Games that make learning fun are objectively better, or at least not more painful than need be.
Anyone can beat these games if they hate themselves enough and/or give up and follow a guide. Neither of which are impressive.
Except the kinds of games you've listed require mechanical skill. None of the four games in the OP pic have a high skill ceiling, it's purely a knowledge floor that is either unnecessarily rough or boring to learn through non-painful means.
Noita's the least offender, for sure. But there's still tons of environmental/enemy interactions that you can't see coming, or that are very unintuitive. The fact that you can accidentally come across an OP wand and breeze through the game isn't a good thing by the way.
Rain World has literal cat mario moments where you HAVE to kill yourself to figure something out, being punished for that through losing progress. I can grant that while you're being punished short-term, you're reward long-term by building an overall understanding of the game. However that is not the case, there is no long-term reward. The game's over when you figure everything out, it's only a perpetual loop of being wronged by bullshit over and over until there's no bullshit to go through anymore. Say it respects your skill and knowledge all you want, it doesn't respect your intelligence.

You can get really far on your own in Noita. Personally I made it to the Hiisi Base on my first run ever and never made it back again for a long time until I got good. Most of the physics interactions in the game can be seen in the first two levels, so it's really your own fault for dying to lightning underwater or whatever. If the game just instantly kills you for saying "No Thanks" instead of "Fuck You Bitch" in the dialogue then that's bullshit and not a knowledge check

accidentally come across an OP wand and breeze through the game

Now I know you're full of shit.

Noita is to blame for putting just straight up bullshit everywhere it can. Enemies with complete immunity to most damage types. Poisonous FUCKING BACKGROUND. Annoying debuffs like blindness. Shit like bridge boss that is so fucking bullshit that most players just use cheese. A fucking speshul snowflake stag that reroutes all damage back to you because poor nature.
I'd like to kick the one responsible in the nads, repeatedly.

But there's still tons of environmental/enemy interactions that you can't see coming, or that are very unintuitive.

oh boo hoo nigga
the games only problem is that it can have slow and boring starts, that you can get gibbed by an accelerating gas canister or drown beneath a refrozen lake or zapped by a teleport mage straight into lava is part of the fun

By that I mean fucking around with different wand combinations at checkpoints. At my third playthough I found a wand with tentacle spells on it, I combined it with whatever other spell I had until I got something that instakilled everything,

Oh and the goddamn polymorphine, because developers absolutely need a dedicated "Fuck you, die" button available at all times.

Noita's lack of telling you shit is one of the best parts of the game. If you actually knew how good Noita was, your only issue would be how fucking annoying the (fire) stain mechanic is

Zoomers not being able to understand the pleasure of challenge is never going to get old

It's called a learning curve and it s actually the best experience gaming has to offer

tfw can't erase my memory of rain world and replay it

Losing all your progress due to some ultra-specific counter-synergy is part of the fun

ftfy. Why are you like this? How are you like this? Do you seriously audibly laugh when you die in the video game? That's something only children do.
Except it's not challenge, it's impossible or too possible. If you don't know X, you can't do Y. if you know X, you can do Y. There's no challenge other than enduring the frustration, which you apparently don't feel, probably due to you lacking the cognitive abilities that cause you to be the drooling retard you are today.
Then it's a bad learning curve. A learning curve should be a cruve, not a spiked zig-zaggy line going in random directions until it dissapears. You just admitted it yourself; there's no reason to play Rain World if you've already learned it. It's artificial difficulty, once you've learned the difficulty out of the game, there's no game left to play.

Video games are supposed to be fun.

samefag

Kill yourself.

bad at games op?

I think what these guys don't get is that games like this are for guys who are good enough at games that most games are trivial and boring.

cry about it bitch

So that's why I'm so mad at these games, it's because I'm too good at games and the only games that pose a challenge are those that have to disrespect my intelligence in order to even be able to pose a challenge. Very thoughtful post, I guess that means I'm done playing vidya. Maybe the only real challenge is to make a truly challenging game that actually respects your intelligence.
Beating your head against the wall and/or following a guide isn't impressive. You're pathetic.

enter game

start messing around

learn stuff

woah neat

keep going

Meanwhile you seethe mega hard, huh. Though I consider noite lackluster because there isn't really any goal, you make a blackhole just... cuz.

Noita isn't trial and error, it's git gud.

The purpose of games is challenge. When you run into a brick wall, you start screeching and saying the game doesn't "respect your time", because you have been trained to expect games to be little more than walking simulators that drip feed you some boring story while you occasionally press buttons like a child playing "put the round peg in the round hole".

Real, actually living humans enjoy solving challenges and overcoming obstacles. It's very easy to make a game too bullshit, it's a lot harder to craft it in a way where you will probably die, but you'll feel like you're making progress still.

Nine Sols had the most satisfying difficulty curve I've run into in a while

Lots of difficultyniggers seething and trying to smugpost itt.
Meanwhile not a single one of them can actually prove they got gud themselves and didn't just brute-force the game. Or used cheats or mods. If they managed to finish it at all.

enemy takes wand that shoots a nuke in the darkness and fires it

explode and die before you are aware of what happened

ah yes, I'm supposed to "git gud" at that

play roguelike

die

WWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW

bad luck is trial and error

Huh?

enter game

start fucking around

find out and die

learn stuff

woah neat

ffs i lost all progress and have to go through the same repetitious shit

quickly lose interest because i respect my time

ftfy
Again, you're right that the purpose of games is challenge. However, the challenge resting only on your ability to endure frustration is no challenge worth going through. Real challenging games exercise your mechanical or strategical skill, not your ability to die to every cat mario trap without going crazy. Brute-forcing learning is an obstacle that only the stupid are willing to overcome, or those with very low standards.

>ffs i lost all progress and have to go through the same repetitious shit

Have you never played any of the games you listed before? If you die in fear and hunger before saving you've lost maybe 10 minutes of your time, hell you can beat the game in like 2 hours
Same with noita most of the 'learning' deaths are super early
I haven't played rain world or whatever the other one is, but afaik isn't rain world literally a regular ass linear videogame?
You're just megaseething because you died, thank god you've never touched a roguelike

No one ACTUALLY enjoys video games as hard as Rain World

rain world is like dark souls if every time you died some of the enemy placements changed
the only reason this would be ridiculously hard to you is if your whole strategy was just brute forcing every challenge

You're not. That anon just tries to insinuate that he's very cool and skilled at Noita and it's all pure skill and totally not a shitty trial and error.
He totally never killed himself when trying out a found wand. He totally didn't ever gib himself with a fucking sawblade spell. He totally never opened a treasure chest with the lightning stone underwater. And of course he never died to a deathtrap perk combo. He's just ~that~ good at the game.

In fairness, that's something that is basically impossible to prove unless you go into the game blind with the intent to prove that.

So you're admitting that these games have very little real content, which is artificially padded out with cat mario mechanics. Weird concession but okay.

If you haven't ascended in Nethack you don't know SHIT about video games and your opinion means nothing

dying in psycho patrol r doesn't reset your progress though? doesn't even reload a save you just get kicked back to the last checkpoint

So you're admitting that these games have very little real content, which is artificially padded out with cat mario mechanics. Weird concession but okay.

What?

which version of nethack?

Easy, just record a statistically significant amount of consecutive successful playthroughs. Should be ezpz for a pro such as you, right?
If you used Elbereth, you didn't beat the game.

Easy, just record a statistically significant amount of consecutive successful playthroughs. Should be ezpz for a pro such as you, right?

I wasn't disagreeing with you, dipshit. And that wouldn't even prove what you wanted, either.

Random enemy placements make the entire game complete ass to play, since you can get instagibbed from across the map or from around the corner, which makes the simplest tasks like finding an NPC excessively tedious since you need to perpetually be paranoid. In that sense it has cat mario mechanics, except even worse because at least cat mario doesn't have random trap placements. Also you're practically forced to exploit money-making mechanics or killing rich NPCs since spending any significant amount of ammo makes you progress backwards.
2 hour long games are pretty sad, but it's just downright pathetic to artificially extend play time to that extent.

2 hour long games are pretty sad

That's by knowing how the game plays and all the paths and just casually playing to beat it, also it's like a 10 dollar RPGmaker game
The more you talk the more you reveal you have some weird cuck 'spite' because the game made you get a boo boo or something, christ

I really, truly, genuinely don't understand the intent or mindset of the people who make this type of obvious low effort bait thread constantly.

do you genuinely hate video games this much or are you just pretending to have a tantrum for attention?

Look, retard. Getting gud at the game implies that you don't do shit blind. You already have knowledge of the game, timings, reflexes, the works. If any shitter wants to scream 'git gud' let him first prove that he got gud himself. I outlined how.

which makes the simplest tasks like finding an NPC excessively tedious since you need to perpetually be paranoid.

Bait or zoomer

I could say you have a weird cuck 'fetish' to do apologetics for shitty 10 dollar RPGmaker games. I don't agree to disagree, you're full of shit.
I hate developers that hate video games, yes. Games like the ones in the OP pic lower the standards for all video games, it doesn't matter how much you glorify a cat mario game, it's still a fucking cat mario game. So much wasted potential, Cruelty Squad for example was an actual good game and the dev had a conniption over people liking what he intended to be a turd, and so now he makes an actual turd because he's an incel like that.
Random enemies still spawn even with 0 Lack. Get fucked.

oh. my. SCIENCE!! i was taking a little stroll and...! hekkin ENEMY showed up and ATTACKED!! wtf who makes this shit?? so stressful!!! less of that!!

kekka

most of the 'learning' deaths are super early

Why are you such a lying faggot?
Every single non-kolmi boss is from slightly off the path to fucking far away. Many high end spells that can easily end you if you use them wrong are available only in sky/hell or from doing obscure shit. The only early learning deaths are from basic spells and basic enemies.

You're just megaseething because you died

Counter-argument: you're just megaseething 'cause your favorite gayme got rightfully called a piece of shit. And you have no arguments to prove that anon wrong.

Roguelites are designed around repetitive trial and error and Anon Babble won't shut the fuck up about them. Remember Balatro?

You shouldn't still be "learning" if you're exploring outside of the "go down" mines

Strawman. My problem isn't enemies being enemies, it's having to kill myself over and over to try every spell and item on the enemy until one works. Or just replay the same early game killing yourself over and over to figure out the proper route to go through. It's tedious, the challenge isn't fun. It doesn't challenge your mechanical or strategical skill, only your ability to ignore the worth of your time.

What the fuck even is this thread? Is this entire board just 25 year old zoomers now who have never actually tried to push themselves in any way in their life? Why are you all so shit at everything?

may I interest you in watching a lets play on youtube instead?

Bitch, experiencing content for the first time IS learning.
And vast MAJORITY of the game is hidden off the main path.
So most of 'learning' death are gonna be pretty far into the playthrough and gonna be pretty painful.
Unless you're a little faggot who runs to youtube and wiki to look everything up ahead of time...

Nothing is achievable unless it has flashy yellow paint on it, you should know this.

our parents (faggot gen Xers and early millennials) are garbage at raising children. It's not my fault, unironically

Bitch, experiencing content for the first time IS learning.

Stop using words that you don't know the meaning of it

People pretending that they're good at children's toys for imaginary internet tough guy points.

frog poster is retarded

Noita is a roguelike, anon

Is it not?

Balatro is a glorified Solitaire game, not cat mario. It's a little sad to play a pure numbers game, but it's not nearly as pathetic as 'enjoying' perpetually being a loser.
Much to the contrary, I'm good at everything. I just have proper standards as to only be willing to be good at things that are worth being good at. Why do you love to eat shit?
No, I don't like to watch like a cuck, unlike you.
No one's asking for that. You have no arguments.

wizardlike thoughbeit

Well, can you prove me wrong, frognigger?
Oh right, you can't. Pathetic.

what the science!?!?!? I've been playing chud souls for 9000000000 hours but this boss killed me because I was just learning ok I don't know how to dodge or attack or or or how anything works! it's learning!

tired frog.jpg again

Noita it's no turn based and also lacks grid based movement

Just because you're BAD at learning does not stop "Experiencing thing for the first time" from being learning.

Mechanical skill isn't a factor that can help you avoid deaths in the games in the OP pic. Kill yourself.

le 30000 gorillion hours in noite

n-no ok i didn't learn that i shouldn't touch enemies or that some spells can be dangerous to myself ok? dumb bullshit game!!!! how was i meant to know!!!

tired frogue

This guy would have been mad at Doom in 1993 for having monster closets

op need accessibility features

Except you can deal with them reliably with the proper mechanical skill, even at the hardest difficulties. In the games in the OP pic, there is no mechanical skill to get you out of these situations. You just insta die, you just had to die once to know that this was going to happen. It's a fucking cat mario game, and you're a dumb nigger for doing apologetics for this actual bile.

Tell me, terminally retarded frognigger, how exactly you would know that the bridge boss starts spamming the spell you hit it with, the first time around?
Go on, take your time. You should be able to solve this.

You can run from 90% of fear and hunger enemies

filtered

fpbp

Ah yes, just run around and figure out the items and spells you need to then cheese every boss that you can't run from, dying a few times from the
ox
xo
mechanic that fucks you over sometimes. How fun.
Get good at Starcraft Brood War if you want to impress somebody, hell maybe it'll get you a cute korean gf. But no one's going to kiss your feet for not respecting your own intelligence.

You just walk right blindly and jump on the goombas and die a few times from a turtle fucking you over, nice game

Cute image, OP. I want more games where you play a shobon. (´・ω・`)

y-you can run huh? umm... NOOOOOOO!!!

...alright?

Rain World has literal cat mario moments where you HAVE to kill yourself to figure something out

filtered and seething so hard he just makes shit up

I smugly insinuate that I managed to get skilled enough to beat the childrens' toy

Look at me, I'm superior to you all!

Kek. Imagine being proud of something like that.
Or even better, imagine being proud of something like that without actually achieving it!
Fucking lmao, keep 'em coming.

Now imagine seething this much over a children's toy. Oh wait you don't have to imagine it.

lmao

Why'd you reply to that guy twice

OPs motivations are complex and beyond your comprehension

You're all posting in a bot thread

On a board where almost everything I see every day is retarded, this thread really stands out as being especially fucking gay. Great job man! Keep it up!

There are locations where you have to go down without knowing if it's a bottomless pit. There are enemy behaviors you have to interact with to know if they're instakills or not. There are entire maps that are huge circles with a single specific location that are blocked off by specific enemies. This is a cat mario game with extra steps.

Not being able to beat a fear and hunger is like not being able to complete a babies first 8 piece jigsaw puzzle.

jump into mario bottomless pit after running into a goomba

"fucking DOGshit game how was I supposed to know it was a bottomless pit stupidass catmario nigger game..."