Stick with the baton

Oh and like two or three people that want you to specifically kill someone but will bitch that you only knocked them out (but no changes besides dialogue)

The big secret is that getting swimming to trained at the very start of the game is actually a great idea. It costs very little and gives you access to a lot of good items in the early game and throughout. Anything above trained is pointless though.

it's fun and more interesting than being a generic gun shooting guy

youtu.be/TdpgMDWClPY

prod is nice for when you cant get a clean takedown and need to use the stun so you can combo with the baton

It's the opposite. The baton has a notoriously low base damage that basically requires you take the combat strength aug AND invest in melee to make it viable. Meanwhile, the prod doesn't need any investment in either skill, because it always does the same damage regardless of your skills and augs (except for Targeting, which does buff it).

The stun effect of the prod means you can safely take down MIBs with ease (FROM THE FRONT) while the baton has you wacking them for 5 seconds before they go down. Even on a lethal run, the prod is extremely useful for silent takedowns and close quarters MIB fights (since they don't explode if knocked unconscious and you can take their equipment).

After you meet Paul in New York is when it stops mattering. Deus Ex is bugged so that your quartermaster still gives you the bonus gear even if he complains about you killing.

But having the prod for taking out MIBs and getting their gear is useful for the later half of the game.

GMDX is for people who want more Deus Ex. Don't play it on the first playthrough. The best way for a newbie to play is the Deus Ex Randomizer with Zero Rando mode (includes all the common fixes and some QoL but disables all randomization).

Welcome to the coalition PROD. I might as well start using your codename.

Late game, you switch to dragon sword no? Obviously not for MIB agents.

But that's the thing, it would have unironically been better to play GMDX on my first playthough since I wouldn't know what's needed and what's useless. I'm avoiding most perks and aug upgrades since I know they won't benefit me for the playthrough.
Hell, if anything I feel it's also very forgiving on bypasses / picks / destructables.

It's tedious at best and frustrating at worse. I think my biggest problem was it was dishonest into making it seem like you're heavily incentivized to do non-lethal, to the point almost noobtrapping me when the game kept throwing mechanical shit that explode on death, and I had little to nothing to actually deal with them.
Stealth itself had no nuance between being laughably broken in both ways, and some scenarios practically requiring some form of ranged takedown. The crossbow requires too much of an investment to be effective for how long it actually takes to takedown someone, and you end up drawing aggro anyways because the aggro/alert system is broken (even shit like turrets set to target enemies will draw aggro onto you).

more interesting than being a generic gun shooting guy

But the game already heavily favors against it both with how accuracy works / requires investment to work around, and how even firing an unsilenced gun will aggro everyone around you, and I've found myself abusing that a lot to get locked doors opened.
I unironically had more fun in subsequent playthroughs not being so anal over non-lethal takedowns since I didn't have to dance with the prod or baton or crossbow and instead just stealth pistol or flamethrower my way through encounters.

DX hits its peak at Hong Kong then kind of sputters out.

Agreed, but only because France only serves to get you to DuClair, to get you to Everett, who's sole purpose was to show how he and the Illuminati were huge KWABs and Page got shit done.

It depends on the playstyle of the run. Dragon sword (DTS) takes a lot of space. I might prefer to keep the combat knife for opening boxes and rely on headshots from a laser equipped sniper for close up fighting. The prod is still useful when you get DTS because it's truly silent. NPCs that are killed will make a death scream that alerts everyone around them. But knockouts are quiet.

None of that matters because you can hit them in the lower back for a 1hitKO with the baton.

any cool deus ex mods?

I recall the DTS slicing through everything so I didn't need as much of an investment, and abandoned all other melee . I still kept sniper and prod. I treated pump shotgun, loud handgun, AR and gep gun as disposable weapons. Get them. Unload at short range. Toss. Occasionally pick up a prod for a while.

The idea that Deus Ex encourages and rewards a non-lethal playstyle is a retroactive delusion, it changes 3 dialogue points and 1 reward in the early game and the non-lethal weaponry sucks ass and can't beat later enemies

GMDX is great for making the game harder and more in-depth for another playthough

You can, but it doesn't always work because the hitbox can be hard to hit. You also need to be unseen for the stealth damage bonus. The prod lets you go in fast and attack from the front if needed. The initial stun prevents enemies from alerting other NPCs.

it was dishonest into making it seem like you're heavily incentivized to do non-lethal

Other people made you think that, not the game

No, I knew fuck all about Deus Ex before I first played it. The game keeps making it seem like it matters.

Paul tells you off for killing NSF because he's a double agent
Nobody ever tells you off for killing MJ12

non-lethal

always goes out the window when I get the dragon lazrr sword

foreshadowing or just an afterthought

it's a roleplaying game dipshit

If you want a full conversion, play The Nameless Mod. It's more lighthearted in tone than the original game, but everything else is what you'd expect from a Deus Ex game.

DTS still takes 2 hits to kill MJ12 commandos, unless you have the strength aug. Granted, the prod doesn't affect commandos at all.

A novel thing that you can do with the sawnoff is use commands to give it a laser and/or silencer. The sawnoff does enough damage when maxed out that you can one tap troopers with bodyshots, provided all the pellets hit. Adding a laser makes the sawnoff 100% accurate, so that it's basically firing slugs. Adding a laser and silencer turns it into this stealthy thumper that rewards quick body shots and punishes you for missing with its slow reload. You can also turn off the laser to revert the accuracy buff and spread out the pellets again. It's like the shotgun from Crysis 1.

This. Bum rush with the prod, beat to death with baton is the real power move.

What does that even mean?

And you don't know that's the reason until later in the game. Ignoring that you have Anna and Gunther ripping your head off for not being bloodthirsty, and you're swayed several times by JC himself not wanting to immediately merk anyone that surrenders, and his dialogue no matter what you do about how their approach is uncivilized.

I've never actually played a guns blazing playthrough
It's time

Yes that's 1/3rd through the game at which point the enemies change and nobody talks about being non-lethal ever again

Nobody ever tells you off for killing MJ12

And there's nothing in game to suggest that "oh, I guess I can just start killing people now even though I wasn't killing anyone before". You even have Jock wondering why the fuck you killed the mechanic and Dowd saying don't let paranoia get to you for killing the gatekeeper.

They're civilians
The only time anyone ever calls you out for killing hostiles are on the first 2 missions, that's it

How about the fact that there's 2 non-lethal weapons which suck past the early game?

silencer mod for pistol that breaks the game

meme mod. Version 10 is better because its more like vanilla don't listen to the v9 fags

ummmmmm youre just SUPPOSED to know that these weapons are shit eventhough theyre only shit if you dont spec at all for them

Are the Illuminati and the MJ12 both cultist wackos? You've got Stanton Dowd talking about the Illuminati teaching their disciples special meditation techniques and the MJ12 having weird scripture in the Paris Cathedral. It's something I've only noticed after several playthroughs.

You know the weapons are shit because you use them on the enemies and they don't work, and yes, they're still shit if you spec for them

gmdx

harder

GMDX like many mods makes playing the game normally more difficult yet at the same time makes the game much easier in other aspects to where it balances it out and only your strategy has somewhat changed

I don't think anything about GMDX makes the game easier

youtube.com/watch?v=JHX5-SvRXTs

I'd argue the Illuminati were delusional as fuck for thinking they're 100% responsible for leading the world despite Everett contradicting this at the end by saying they only do things indirectly. Everything in Everett's home were experiments that failed for not having an application from Morpheus being superceded to DeBeers being the only man on ice to... do nothing.
MJ12's occult shit was from Page having a fetish for Aquinas and levels of clearance being modeled after the hierachy of angels.

Paul Denton if he were an artist

stick with the Loomis method

Its only cause the Adam Jenson games lean so heavily towards non lethal stealth runs that most fans now just assume the original DX is like that plus non lethal is always seen as the right way to go in stealth games despite the fact that DX is not really a stealth game

locks and multitools were nerfed

except now master locks can open anything easily now so who gives a shit

sniper was nerfed

pistol now has a silencer and is OP as shit anyway so who gives a shit

Design like this is all over GMDX. There will be one change that makes the game harder but then theres something else to even it out anyway

I recall the prod is the only way to take down MIBs non-lethally (handy at Versalife).

Hong Kong was the peak but it only sputters out after France once you get to Vanderburg

The real reason you go stealth in this game is so you can hear the guards talking about something while you hide in a vent

The other side of the equation is GDMX is way more stingy with lockpicks and multitools than the base game, you will still have way more of these in vanilla, you never even need to get master lockpicking / electronics in the base game
Putting a silencer on the regular pistol makes the stealth pistol kinda useless but in regular DX the regular pistol is useless because it's not silenced so that's not really making the game easier

I'm gonna stand here and listen to you badmouth the greatest democracy this world has ever known.

Hong Kong the city is decent but the Versalife map is one of the worst maps in the game

Versalife, good, now we're getting somewhere.

regular DX the regular pistol is useless

Fucking lol, the pistol is hilariously OP for the first half of the game cause all you need is to slap a laser on it and now you can just click on heads for every encounter since you don't need anymore points in pistols. GMDX takes this even further cause now the silencer means you no longer have to think at all during stealth

all you need is to slap a laser on it and now you can just click on heads for every encounter since you don't need anymore points in pistols

Guess what, you can do that with the silenced pistol too except it's silenced

He was a good man
*smacks lips*
What a rotten way to die

despite the fact that DX is not really a stealth game

But that's wrong. Deus Ex has both design inspirations and the literal people that worked on LGS games that featured stealth. Not only that but the level design has stealth as a viable option baked into it. To ignore this and say it's not a stealth game is being dishonest.

oh yes

Trying to hear guards talk in this game is painstaking. Both NPCs turn to face each other, so their FOVs overlap. If they're out in the open, you need to be cloaked to not be seen.

DX was made for a variety of playstyles because the devs said they sucked ass at Thief and wanted to make a game where combat was an option as opposed to stealth if you set up your character right. Almost likes thats what people consider im sims to be or some shit
Stealth pistol needs multiple headshots for that unlike the regular pistol

I'd still take two silenced headshots over one loud headshot, but even if the glock in GDMX is more powerful the enemies have more HP and the laser doesn't give you perfect accuracy

see two guys facing each other

shoot a dart so it hits a surface just past them

they look at the dart stupidly

both can now be lined up for 2 baton takedowns

Genuinely, how do you fix the biggest flaw of "stealth" games: Quicksaves[/code]

How do you think? Don't let the player save
That's why Hitman Freelancer is the best stealth game

ign.com/articles/2017/07/14/how-thief-inspired-warren-spector-to-create-deus-ex-a-ign-unfiltered

Don't make being caught so punishing that the only option to get out is to gun down everyone on the map.
When a player play stealthily they typically don't want to be going around treating the game like Doom, which goes doubly for something like DX where stealth is wholly opt-in.

Other anons already got it. Don't make quickloading more attractive than playing out your failures.

IN THE FRESH

You're a good man. *smacks lips* Your appointment to FEMA should be finalized within the week.

Mistah Jay Cee Denton, in da fresh

People that clearly don't know English struggling to get out simple lines

Pic related going "OOOO SANKYU HERRO COME GET NEWSPAPAH SOLLY ME VELLY VELLY BUSY LIGH NAOH" when it's obviously some white woman

Hong Kong is fucking hilarious.

I take it he was agreeable

Prey Mooncrash fixed the immersive sim problem by mixing it with rogue-lite elements. Just don't allow savescumming.

Loud headshot.

Sound doesn't even carry that far in DX1. Last playthrough, I gave my pistol a scope at the start and sniped all the NSF. Shooting them in the open didn't attract any attention. The real noise problem is caused by dying NPCs alerting nearby allies.

not using the gep gun for several playthroughs and then taking the gep gun one run is liberating as hell.

My favorite was the black guy who had the whitest Australian accent ever.

take GEP because I can't be assed to wait until escaping MJ12 to get it

never use it anyways because I can't ever bring myself to use it over a LAM to explode something

It was liberating to use it on Simons at least.

Maybe he was an abo?

It's a low class Aussie accent, the kind you hear from bogans. If anything his accent is too strong for him.

I liked it. My experience of DX was crouch-walking sneaking up on a guy while looking directing at his ass, and prodding him in just the right spot.

does paul actually care about lives? or does he just say that because he doesn't want jc to kill his nsf friends

I think it's a bit of both. iirc Navarre makes several references to Paul being a "disappointment" when JC goes full lethal, and also there's a line where JC and a UNATCO soldier are discussing how Paul gave them gas grenades instead of ammo

"Paul used to be fine. I don't know what happened"

It is not that useful outside of killing robots and blasting open stuff.

those are very good uses, though.
gep is also very good at dealing with mj12, karkians, commandos and MIBs.
It's overkill for troopers, sure, but great for basically everything else. Most importantly ammo is very common so you can use it as much as you really want to.

*mj12 commandos

Sound doesn't even carry that far in DX1

it does in GMDX

The GEP gun isn't that useful apart from the fact that it removes every single obstacle in the game

I prefer Paris to Hong Kong. The narrow alleyways and miniaturised scale of Hong Kong anticipate the design ethos of Invisible War. The tiny police station is a characteristic example, but the rule applies to most locations. The Ion Storm office staff do not do a good job of moonlighting as voice actors in this part of the game, and their stupid Lo Pan recitations pull me out of the story. The canal area is largely wasted, too.

And let's not forget that Hong Kong is home to Tracer Kong, the Apex Retard who believes he can fix the world by hurtling it into chaos for a few years, when really the most likely outcome of this is that the people, suddenly stripped of their services and comforts, will greatly desire the restoration of the old order, and once restored, will embrace it more keenly than before, having suffered in its absence.

I prefer Paris to Hong Kong

Me too, it's just Paris has no content

i hate the small spiders so fucking much, worst enemies in the game

*electrocutes you*

I think it's interesting and a testament to design that all the weapons are viable, and most are viable at more than one role, if you build out, or just use it in the right spot. I mostly used the shotgun unmodded almost as a melee weapon.

I think Hong Kong is the best vertical slice of DX in DX.
You have a hub, characterization, an unfolding conspiracy, side objectives, and so many alternate routes it puts modern imsims to shame. The game blows its creative load leading up to and during the first visit to Versalife, the afterglow is the second, then post-nut clarity hits at the sub base. By the time you hit Paris you're over the whole thing.

the sub base is long after paris

I doubt there's any difference at all. You've imagined it.

The first Hells Kitchen level has way more side stuff to do than Hong Kong
The level design remains good throughout the whole game, there's just less story and side content to do

it feels like DX just falls apart near the end, the base pistol with silencer, laser pointer and damage mods just 1 shots all enemies with a headshot, or 2 shots the cyborgs so all challenge dissapears

well it says on the feature list that they have enhanced senses, and the sniper rifle is pretty bad up until you've silenced it because you alert everyone

play it on a higher difficulty, the enemies will be too tanky for the 10mm in the later half of the game

difficulty doesn't affect enemies hp retard

That makes the game feel too forgiving. A better option would be add a punishment for reloading quick saves within 30 minutes of making them. The player has to decide if losing 30 minutes of progress is worse than having a fight after being caught.

It affects the type of enemies being placed, you can't 2-tap MJ12 and MIB elites

base pistol with silencer

you can't mod the pistol with a silencer.
only the assault rifle and sniper rifle accept the silencer mod

He's talking about GDMX

really?

the weapon that instantly disables all enemies in melee regardless of your skills or where you hit them is a noob trap

Stop being an idiot

I think so, l I've only played on the higher difficulties but the default pistol falls off at the endgame because it just doesn't do enough damage to kill the elite enemies quickly

It affects the type of enemies being placed,

Maybe in Revision. Not so much the vanilla game.

Bro if you max out pistols and aim well you will be rewarded for headshots against human enemies.

Okay. You're still shit out of luck against turrets, bots, hacking and such.

But the balance

You can get the GEP gun at the start of the game. Shut the fuck up.

man. that's such a problem. when people talk about deus ex, they're actually talking about like 3 different games. vanilla, gmdx, revision and whatever the fuck else.
I just play vanilla with kentie's launcher.

He mentioned damage mods which are only in GMDX
GMDX is fairly well balanced (depending on version), vanilla DX has some overpowered stuff like the gep gun

pretty sure the difficulty only affects the damage jc takes

In GMDX it changes many things like how much loot you get and the effectiveness of the skills

I mean the sub research whatever the fuck where you blow up the ship, the shipyard.

lmao

There's also the fact that the dragon tooth sword obliterates EVERYTHING the moment you acquire it. It never stops at being OP all the way to the end too.

STICK WITH THE PROD
PROD WITH THE PROD
JUST IN CASE THOUGH WE'RE POLICE

They're the reason you ignore the people telling you shotguns are shit and always carry some sabot rounds.

considering what enemies you fight in late game, i wouldn't say that it's that op

It's not worth the inventory slot, just use explosives or emp

Clearly not, since spiders are apparently huge pain in the ass.
3 slots for a sawn-off is not that much.

rifles in general are kinda shit (except sniper) also sabots are rare, i'd rather kill them using the sword

Why don't you guys play Peripeteia instead? It's much better.

There's not a single video game weapon that fills me with more disgust that deus ex's assault rifle.
Everything about its design. It's pure nonsense and not even that good in-game to boot.

the AR is godly but only when it's upgraded

rifles in general are kinda shit

Huge myth. The AR at master is the most busted shit in the game, to a level that's hard to understand if you haven't actually used it. You can just full sprint through entire levels, instantly shooting everyone in the head silently since you barely even need to aim like you do with the pistol. Even early on with trained or advanced it's absurd if you give it a laser sight and optionally silencer, especially on realistic.
I wouldn't even put sniper as the real perk of the skill. It genuinely stops being necessary.
Also for just a pocket sawn-off to deal with spider bots, trained is fine.

also sabots are rare

There's more than enough unless you're trying to slaughter your way through heavy bots with an assault shotgun or whatever, but that's actually what EMPs are for.

Not really, you get killed if you use it against bots, adult karkins, or MIBs. It's simply an endgame melee weapon. It doesn't steamroll everything.

Indie game inspired by the classics which looks like shit on purpose and is also anime themed

No thanks

endgame melee weapon

yet you aquire it 1/3rd of the way in

NOOOOO PISTOL IS TOO OP

NOOOOO DRAGONS TOOTH IS TOO OP

NOOOOO GEP GUN IS TOO OP

NOOOOO FLAMETHROWER IS TOO OP

Who the fuck gives a shit when half the options in DX are "OP"? It was never a hard game or anything, you could do a full lethal run using only the knife if you are THAT desperate for challenge. I am tired of (((balance))) faggots wanting everything to be a grey mush of boring safe choices.

especially on realistic

The difficulty modes only affect damage to the player. Nothing else, unless you are using overhaul mods.

The GDMX mod is autistic about balance and difficulty and it actually enhances the game a lot if you're looking for a challenge

I'd rather eat a load of emp and health damage to close in on the spiders and hack them with the sword.

Really?

Theyr'e ALL viable. You can play reasonably at high difficulty with ANY weapon type as your focus. And that's great.

except non-lethal

it's kinda hard to get headshots with that recoil even with the laser mod, the pistol is just better, being effective even at trained but personally i just carry both

Even non-lethal. Tranq darts will one-shot regular troopers at Master pistols.

Yet you acquire the GEP gun at the beginning

Yet you acquire the sniper at the beginning

Yet you can max out pistols at the beginning

Yeah, you can get busted builds real fast in DX1. Melee weapons are actually the most hard balanced weapon type in the game. You have a steady progression, moving up from the baton, crowbar and knife, to the sword, then the dragon sword. There's no skipping to the DTS.

your regen aug bro?

It's more than that.
The whole point is that everything is busted in the right circumstances and/or with the right investment. Every single *item* in the game is at least useful even when playing optimally.
And that's why the game is so great.
And why GMDX is shit.

non-lethal

I'll take the GEP gun

You have a steady progression

You aquire all of those weapons in the first level except the sword and DTS
you get the DTS very quickly after getting the sword, then it's just the DTS for the rest of the game
that's not a good progression

we have deus ex at home

It's disabled, since the bots stole all my bioenergy.

GDMX is shit for casual players because it's anti-fun in some respects, but it's great for experienced RPG players who enjoy the resource management and buildcrafting

they don't drain that much energy

Good thinking! The GEP Gun takedown is the most silent takedown

Every single *item* in the game is at least useful even when playing optimally.

That's bullshit though, half of the weapons just suck and have no real use even when playing suboptimally

But it is still a progression, and it takes some hours of play to reach the end of the line. Also I'll just repeat that it still isn't a good weapon against bots and MIB. I don't even like using it on commandos without the melee aug, since they can kill you in the time it takes to do two swings. But that's a good thing, since you're rewarded for speccing into the weapon somewhat.

Then I guess I've always been lied to.
You can remove the qualifier though because honestly it's the only mode I've ever really played.

It's a progression which exactly two steps, the first level and when you reach Hong Kong
there's no reason to use any melee weapon except the DTS and prod

I'd rather they just drain one of my LAMs, or GEP rockets.

Hardly. Even the humble combat knife is still useful as a compact box opener. Pepper spray is handy for rushing multiple guards, as is the fire extinguisher.

Cigs and tech googles. Those are the only useless things I can think of.

I'm trying to remember, under what conditions you can break doors and shit, saving you lockpicks or explosives.

Just not true, and I've used all of them. Most of the traditionally "bad" weapons have definite purpose. Stealth pistol has surprisingly decent DPS for example, while being one slot and pistol skill means it's worth carrying around if you're running pistols. People call the AR bad but at max upgrades it's the strongest thing in the game arguably. Sawn-off is a mini sniper at high skill and likely a better choice than an assault shotgun if you're going full assault and also have a modded AR. Even shit like Pepper Spray that people discard can be extremely useful in non-lethal runs, since it instantly stuns whole groups of enemies.
Closest to useless is the crowbar, being largely never worth it compared to the knife, but even then it does just do more melee damage and any melee build needs to plan for more inventory space eventually anyway.
Also obvious exception to the plasma weapons but that's almost entirely plasma being bugged in the GOTY version everyone plays.

what a waste

you said "useful even when playing optimally"
These items are not even useful when playing suboptimally, everything they do is done better by so many other tools there's no reason you would use them even when you have no clue what's optimal

You should try it. Pistols for crossbow, Melee for baton to save prod energy. Use the extra space for explosives for anti bot and door opening.

there's no reason to use any melee weapon except the DTS and prod

You don't get a sword from the rooftop at the start of HK?
Even then if you're not going non-lethal there's a lot of argument for the knife and/or crowbar.
It's a damage gate. You are right though, and being able to break doors with the crowbar with mid-game combat strength and melee skill upgrades is a very useful.

The useless weapons are the pepper spray, most of the melee weapons, the assault shotgun, the plasma rifle, the plasma pistol
"non lethal runs" are you imposing a gameplay constraint on yourself so that doesn't count because anything is useful under those circumstances
That's half the weapon loadout

You can, but it doesn't always work because the hitbox can be hard to hit.

I'll let you in on a special secret that blew my mind. The spot you hit them on the back doesn't matter all that much. What matters is that your model is touching theirs. They don't detect you for moving into them. So you crouch walk behind them, move up until you're touching them, then whack, one hit knockout every time. I used to wonder what the hell I was doing wrong until I learned this.

Something like pepper spray is 1 space, neutralizes entire areas so you can take your time and line up easy headshots or multiple strike melee. Just using it to save ammo is a no brainer.

Do this for the early game, and then break the golden rule and take the silent running aug. Put all upgrades into it, cloak, and the energy-recycler aug and you can just walk through the entire level only worrying about cameras. It's pretty fun.

Non-lethal in vanilla DX just sucks ass
Non-lethal in GMDX is better but still falls off near the end because no ammo

It's a worse gas grenade, which is still not very useful

The crowbar and knife both serve as box openers. You can chose the big crowbar for more damage, or the little knife to save inventory space. The prod and baton are nonlethal options. The prod is effective, but limited by ammo. The baton is good only if you go for stealth, or combine it with the prod/pepper spray. The game giving you these options at the start lets the player take their time experimenting with them in the early levels. It's a positive design choice. The sword is an upgrade to the crowbar Hong Kong, which does take some time to reach in a normal playthrough. Then you get the DTS a bit later, which is bigger than other melee weapons. Have fun with it for the rest of the game if you want to have a lethal melee option.

save inventory space

save inventory space for what? all your other weapons which will be infinitely more useful than the low damage melee weapons?

It's a reuseable gas grenade, and can be useful.

Being able to break open doors with melee is useless? You're right in that all those are less useful, but theyre hardlly useless.

most of the melee weapons

False. They're obviously superceded by the dragon's tooth, but they're all useful for at least a period of the game.

pepper spray

Instantly stunning entire groups up close is quite useful, as I said

the assault shotgun

It's like the highest DPS weapon in the game, come on. It's rare that it fits into an build but it's got clear use, especially if you're taking like, trained or advanced assault for the sniper and assault shotgun.

"non lethal runs" are you imposing a gameplay constraint on yourself

A gameplay constraint the game itself acknowledges and designs around. Plus one that's very well known and everyone is aware of. Don't pretend that's the same as some youtube "can I beat X game with Y bullshit???" meme or whatever.

Anything "can be useful". A gun that does 1 damage and takes a minute to reload can be useful if it's the only thing you have. Is it useful compared to all the other tools you get? No, it's outclassed by everything and doesn't have a niche unless you're doing a roleplay riot cop build

Sure, why not? You chose how you want to play. The gep gun and sniper are pretty big. I take the knife for boxes and the prod for silent takedowns of opportunity. Round it out with one of the pistols and I'm good.

Once you rescue Paul they don't care
To really drive that point home the last few levels are robots, monsters and agents that explode when incapacitated

most of the melee weapons are outclassed by the best one you can find. the pepper spray is outclassed by gas grenades or the prod. the assault shotgun is just bad, "highest DPS" means nothing, the biological enemies don't have a lot of HP

A gameplay constraint the game itself acknowledges and designs around.

DX is not designed for non-lethal play, it's like they started with the idea of it but gave it up pretty early in the design process. There's 2 dialogue reactions to it, Sam Carter gives you more ammo, and you can knock out MIBs. really knocking out MIBs is the only thing that matters

If your inventory is gep gun, sniper, pistol and prod you have enough room left for like 4 DTS
You're roleplaying

There's no need to exaggerate anon. The less useful weapons are still more than viable enough. No need to train skills hard or put mods into them. Pick one up, use it aggressively, giving no fucks about ammo, saving ammo for your more useful weapons. Even the fucking plasma gun can be used like that.

new game

upgrades lockpicking, electronics, hacking

downgrades pistol

start game

upgrades swimming

under what conditions you can break doors and shit

It depends on the door, so you just have to try whacking locked things with the crowbar/DTS to see if you can break the damage threshold. The melee aug helps. The sniper is really good for this in the early game. Also, explosives will open anything that doesn't have infinite strength. The shotguns don't work for opening stuff unless you use sabot rounds.

I'm exaggerating because you don't seem to get it. There's viable and then there's useful. They aren't useful. The plasma gun is never useful because you wont have inventory space for it

It's a worse gas grenade

It's better than the gas grenade in a lot of ways. Gas grenades have really obnoxious random spread on their gas. Plus the pepper spray functions both immediately and is far simpler to use.

which is still not very useful

Taking out humans without blowing shit up is useful even without a non-lethal restrictions. Chucking a bunch of gas grenades into the subway at castle clinton is arguably one of the best ways to clear it.

most of the melee weapons are outclassed by the best one you can find.

Yes, and are useful before then.

"highest DPS" means nothing, the biological enemies don't have a lot of HP

It literally lets you kill the most enemies the fastest. That's an obvious use, and it achieves it even at low skill.
The sabots are a nice bonus, too.

DX is not designed for non-lethal play

Blatantly incorrect and the fact that we're having this argument proves that it's wrong. "The weapons are useless, because they're designed around non-lethal, which the game wasn't designed around".

There's 2 dialogue reactions to it

There's quite a few more throughout New York, though most of them have no mechanical effect. Paul will comment on it at least once I know, and Navarre certainly does after Castle Clinton. I think there's a few in your second and third UNATCO visits too?

1 point in swimming is honestly really nice qol if you don't mind "wasting" the points.

Upgrading swimming at the start for the tanker is legitimate

yes it is, that's how i start a new playthrough

New game

Bring up console

allskills

allweapons

augadd augspeed

augadd augvision

augadd augcombat

augadd aughealing

augadd augcloak

augadd augpower

spawnmass augmentationupgradecannister 40

set auglight energyrate 0

editactor class=weaponpistol

Set 'canusesilencer' to true

Words cannot describe how much gaming is about to unfold.

I'm exaggerating because I'm inarticulate and lack the conceptualisation of nuance

Well, if you must put it like that, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

Gas grenades have really obnoxious random spread on their gas.

And pepper spray requires you to be in melee range. The gas grenade comes out ahead

Yes, and are useful before then.

You pick the best melee weapon on the first level then replace it with the DTS when you pick it up, you're hardly making any meaningful choices

It literally lets you kill the most enemies the fastest.

Headshotting enemies lets you kill the most enemies the fastest which is better accomplished with the AR. A loud automatic weapon that takes multiple hits to kill enemies is not good for DX, also why the plasma rifle sucks
You're using creative liberties to try and invent situations where these tools are useful but they aren't true. The game is not balanced.

There's exactly two events which the NPCs react to about you going non-lethal. The first level, and castle clinton at the start of the second level. That's it, for the entire game. Sam Carter gives you an extra mag of ammo for the second. From then on out, it's completely inconsequential to gameplay and dialogue. Also there's no non-lethal options for later game enemies like the MJ12 commandos. Seems like they planned to go this route but just abandoned it

I'm exaggerating because I'm responding to people who don't grasp basic logic like the difference between viable and useful

The plasma gun isn't useful because it's bugged in patched versions in the game. It's legitimately useful in 1.0, especially as a trump card for bossfights or whatever.

Baton for grunts, prod for MIBs, Dragon's Tooth for commandos and to have a badass laser sword

And pepper spray requires you to be in melee range. The gas grenade comes out ahead

If you throw a gas grenade, NPCs will go "WTF?" and hit you with a few shots before the gas takes effect. They might also run from the grenade and escape it while shooting at you. With pepper spray, you can rush people and shut them down before they can react. So you end the encounter with more health and thus have played it more optimally.

bossfights

Are we talking about the same game here? There's like one "bossfight" in the entire game, Walton Simons, and his HP is still low enough to kill with any weapon
The plasma rifle sucks even when it's unbugged

The cool thing about grenades is they're throwable, so you throw it and then hide and they won't see you

Carter gives you sniper ammo if you goes non-lethal for the Castle Clinton mission.

He wants nuance when distinguishing between viable and useful.

When I'm using it as a untrained unupgraded disposable weapon, I find the best use of the plasma rifle as a discount limited sniper rifle. Lots of time to set up, and get your accuracy set. Accurate range of 900. Aiming low is more effective.

And pepper spray requires you to be in melee range. The gas grenade comes out ahead

Yeah, crazy, multiple weapons with different upsides.

You pick the best melee weapon on the first level then replace it with the DTS when you pick it up

Baton takes down enemies silently.
Knife has more damage.
Crowbar has even more damage which is useful for breaking doors, but takes an extra inventory slot which is at a premium.
Sword is even more damage and an extra inventory slot.
There's no "best" one.

Headshotting enemies lets you kill the most enemies the fastest which is better accomplished with the AR

Does require you hitting headshots. I do like the AR more than the assault shotgun generally but it's no secret how many players, even experienced ones, think the AR is useless due to its recoil.
And again, AR relies harder on the Assault Skill and being modded, shotgun just kills things out of the box.

You're using creative liberties to try and invent situations where these tools are useful but they aren't true.

No, I have made use of them myself in my many playthroughs of the game.

There's exactly two events which the NPCs react to about you going non-lethal.

Again, Paul, Navarre and the pool of UNATCO trooper dialogue all mention it.

untrained unupgraded disposable weapon

There's really no point in doing this because the game gives you ample ammo
It's worth it in GMDX though

Older version of pre-multiplayer Deus Ex makes Plasma rifle much stronger but makes DTS deals only 20 damage.

The mechs? Anna Navarre and Gunter?
You could classify various other encounters as close enough to matter. GEP gun is great but not exactly hard to kill yourself with.

No point? i mean in a big map like Champs elise, the gun is sitting right there so you don't need to waste inventory holding on to it. Lots of biological targets. Saving sniper ammo and using a gun that's just lying there isn't useful?

I have made use of them myself in my many playthroughs of the game.

That doesn't mean they're useful. Like you can roleplay and PRETEND they're useful, but they aren't actually useful in real life when you compare them to all the other options you have. Like maybe if you pretend you're unable to hit headshots and you're not allowed to go stealth and you're not allowed to level rifles and upgrade your AR, maybe the assault shotgun suddenly becomes a good weapon. But for any real human playing the game it's just a shit weapon not worth using. And maybe if you go an all 3 heavy weapons plus a rifle you won't have space for the DTS, but realistically everyone's gonna have space for the DTS given half the game's arsenal just isn't worth using with or without the DTS as your melee option

Seems like you're alerting the enemy, only to lose the initiative right afterwards if you do that. If the enemies are boxed in, like in the subway, then the grenade is a good choice. I've you've snuck up on an enemy, or are about to mug a pair of passive NPC guards, then I'd take the pepper spray.

The game gives you lots of ammo so you don't really need to save it

oh yeah i forgot about the mechs because of their killphrases

Flatlander woman

He does that no matter what in GOTY edition.

If you've snuck up on the enemy you can use the prod or a melee weapon. And before you say "but what if there's two", you can stun both of them before they can react

he doesn't stick with the prod and prod with the prod

Pathetic.

Upgrade module is usually more valuable than gunter's killphrase desu

Yeah and Gunther is standing in a corner waiting to ambush you so you can take him out with a single LAM

I like to pick my nose.

The game gives you almost thousands of GEP rockets throughout the game but barely 30 20mm grenade for your rifle.
It's fun to shoot rockets at common MJ12 troops just for the hell of it.

Prod takes up more space and has a smaller mag, so if you want to have this option of just stunning multiple guards before drawing the baton or whatever, the pepper spray is more economical. You can also not sneak up on an enemy and just shoot them, but saying that would highlight how redundant this conversation is.

Throwing grenades at hidden enemies before they can activate their dialogue is usually a level of cheese I don't usually engage with

prod and pepper spray are both one inventory slot
prod has enough ammo to stun two guys
you are making shit up to try and pretend this is good when it's not
it's not even good in GMDX which tries to make this stuff more balanced

to stun two guys

He plays GMDX

Those are INCREDIBLY good uses.

GEP SNIPER. GET DOWN.

Aren't we talking about sneaking up on a couple of guards?
GMDX is a good mod for replays, vanilla DX is easy and unbalanced

Keep your finger out of your nostril Denton

Pepper spray can stun just like the prod

Can also be used to bypass some laser grids

Much larger magazine for emergencies

Yep, it's viable. Superior, even, for some tasks.

I don't recall GMDX being that much harder.
iirc GMDX barely nerf the laser mod. You still get the 100% accuracy and pop heads left and right as usual.

agents that explode when incapacitated

Only if you kill them lethally. If you use the prod they stay around and you can loot them.

No. Play more with the "sub optimal" shit. It wasn't until I saw some of the interactions myself, like being able to dragon tooth so many doors, or pepper spray vs gas grenade that I understood more of how to use the less useful weapons well.

>Can also be used to bypass some laser grids

Ok, I didn't know this, it's still a shit combat weapon
You know what's a better weapon for emergencies? Almost any other weapon in the game
You're bending over backwards to try and pretend this is useful

It's way harder, they give you much less ammo and resources, and they have tankier enemies
Latest version of GMDX nerfs the laser mod

I've played with literally all of the weapons

The rocket launcher alt fire in IW was pretty fun. It's basically like the suicide drones in Ukraine. IW was ahead of its time. I use the rocket launcher to kill JC and Paul without taking any damage.

In vanilla Deus Ex, bypaasing laser grid is map dependant and you couldn't tell at all.
It bypasses the laser grid in one map, but triggers on the other.

You're bending over backwards to pretend its not. It's faster than the prod for stunning multiple guards, can do the laser trick, and uses a different ammo pool to the prod. It's supplemental to the prod at the least, if you haven't been diligently searching for prod ammo.

As a rule of thumb, any map with wandering NPCs near the lasers will let you use gas on the lasers. The flag that lets NPCs walk through lasers without setting off alarms is the same flag that lets you spray the lasers and bypass them.

When you're trying to justify using the weapon by saying it has a different ammo pool, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Yes it does have a different ammo pool. You will never be running low enough on ammo for this to actually matter. The only way the pepper spray is useful is if you're doing a melee-only run or something where you aren't allowed to use guns

Latest version of GMDX nerfs the laser mod

all GMDX did is making enemies notice the laser. Why would they notice the laser if they already get shot in the face?

the latest GMDX gives the laser a sway based on your skill level, so it's still inaccurate just like without the laser turned on, you can just see where your bullet will land

I graciously accept your begrudging concession.

Literally any weapon in the game is useful if you're only allowed to use that weapon
Like you could do "throwing knives only" and the throwing knives would be a useful weapon
That's the only circumstance where the pepper spray would ever be useful

*LAMs unatco troops*
What a shame

If the Dragon's Tooth folds out of the handle, why does it take 4 inventory slots?
Also if it's only metal that sharpens itself with nanites, how does it fold out of the handle?

The only explaination i got is that the handle is really fucking heavy.

Deus Ex isn't particularly challenging or well balanced, but every mod that tries to improve it makes it worse.
Revision maps are fucking terrible.

yeah that's pretty much how i feel about a lot of these old games now. i love extra content but leave the base game alone.

retard NSF walks too close to the castle door, aggros UNATCO grunts and Navarre

firefight ensues

emerge from the tunnel to a battlefield

"You didn't have to kill all those people, no reward for u"

not killing Navarre with explosives on the plane

You don't understand. It's a noneukalictic solid.

Got a sawed off shotgun

Untrained rifle skill

Missing point blank shot

Master rifle skill with level 4 accuracy aug

Become a bootleg sniper rifle that shoots slightly faster

Revision literally shits all over the OG and GMDX zoom zoom

I want to do a shotgun run some time, but they're so underwhelming when you get them, I only ever use them to destroy cameras with sabot.

nah for me it goes like this

Liberty Island

kino

any New York part

shit

Honk Kong

kino

Paris

kino

the rest is okay to meh

Why don't you get a job?

Revision literally shits all over the OG and GMDX

The idea of a revision fan
1. existing
2. calling anyone zoom zoom
Is absolutely hilarious.

No, you need the prod to one-tap the MiBs(without exploding) and those ironman suit guys. In fact for a fresh player it's much harder to realize the quirk behind melee - which is to aim for the center of npc's back. Prod eliminates that and even if you 'miss' the npc is still stunned allowing you a second try. It's the perfect training wheels scenario for the existing mechanic.

yes i am butthurt trans dev of GMDX how did you know

kek