Amateur dev anon here, how does Anon Babble feel about turn based systems that require some form of action skills to excel at? Something like Paper Mario except instead of timing a button press maybe it requires something with more skill like entering a complex fighting game combo or like the shmup sections in undertale but difficult. Would that be appealing? Or am I just alienating both the turn based players and the action players by creating a game with both?
Amateur dev anon here...
Just use AI.
what
yes
no
action commands give you something to do instead of just watching an unskippable 30+ second animation every time you do an action
all action commands in RPGs are gay as shit
Well, people like Paper Mario. They like Mario & Luigi. And they like Undertale too. Also people often regard those old JRPGs with combo inputs like Xenogears with fondness. Or LISA, that one too.
So yeah, go ahead.
Would you show the button prompts?
The best part about Mario’s is, while simple, there’s often a ranking system with how well you do the input. This is mostly in Mario & Luigi, but something like the multi-bounce in Paper Mario is an example.
I think action commands are fucking based.
Yeah but I'm thinking of making those actions actually require skill instead of "just being something to do". So you might have a turn based player who is good at planning and strategy, but if they're bad at inputs they can only do weaker attacks. Whereas an unga bunga action game player who doesn't give a shit about strategy can play at the same level as the previous player just by perfecting their inputs.
It's fake gameplay that trivializes any semblance of strategic gameplay that a JRPG might have previously had. Unless you abandon that pretense right away and design the game from the ground up not to have a true strategic component, all you're doing is giving a free advantage to anyone with a pulse since timed actions/skill actions in these kinds of games fall into 2 categories:
1: so easy that no one can possibly fuck it up except on purpose
2: so difficult that it is effectively random/RNG instead of testing skill
Damage (and others) based on action events is extremely superior to damage based on dice rolls.
Plus, the success of Undertale shows there is an audience for this.
Something like Paper Mario except instead of timing a button press maybe it requires something with more skill like entering a complex fighting game combo or like the shmup sections in undertale but difficult.
That's how you end up with shit like this. The more you drag out a simple command, the worse combat will feel.
Turn-based games are boring as hell to me without action commands or some kind of real-time mechanics, unless they're a deck building game. As long as they're quick and satisfying action commands and not tedious, such as an attack that you can use repeatedly but it's such a chore because it lasts so long that makes you don't want to use it. Mario and Luigi games to mind. The specials in TTYD can be lengthy but at least they're substantial.
I would tell the player how to do the prompts, yeah. Maybe through an NPC that teaches them. It wouldn't be just guessing. I'd also let them practice the inputs in mock battles so they can learn to "get good" in a controlled environment.
Why has nobody done:
3: It's the perfect difficulty for testing skill/reflexes
very true saar
Timed hits are generally used as a band-aid when a combat designer doesn't know how to make turn based battles actually engaging.
Focus on making an interesting turn based system first, and then once you have it you can think about maybe adding a timed hits mechanic.
Also, for the love of God, make the timed hit decision as unintrusive as possible. You want them to be snappy and not bog down the combat flow.
you mean like yiik?
Because fundamentally, it can't be done. It is either easy, or impossible, and there are few inbetweens, especially when players of these often repetitive games get LOTS of practice to make them even easier than before. Take a game like Tomato Adventure where a good chunk of the weapons are borderline unusable even on the easiest difficulty settings, and people simply default to the easiest ones they can handle.
files.catbox.moe
Don't people unironically like that game now
just dont make your commands longer than 5 seconds on average, 10 if its like a super move or something
That looks fucking terrible
Completely fucking hate them. They miss the fucking point. I want to sit back and relax and think about what I'm doing, be able to put it down and go to the bathroom or casually eat a snack at the same time. When I want to play twich games I will play those.
These are trying to aim a genre at an entirely different audience because the creator doesn't give a shit about the genre in the first place. 'Jrpg' is racist. Yeah fuck you, I hope your entire office burns down with everyone inside.
Undertale was even more fucking retarded because it managed to fuck up two genres. Shoot'em ups rely on seeing patterns to avoid things; you can't see a pattern when it flashed on screen for half a second.
thanks
combine M&L dodging and PM blocking/strategy anon, nobody has done that, maybe use a stamina system. Just make sure attacks are quick and snappy, no longer than 10 seconds. Design great looking characters, you are now a millionaire, good luck.
how does Anon Babble feel about turn based systems that require some form of action skills to excel at?
It's the only way to make (J)RPGs actual games instead of movieshit/spreadsheet cheese stats slop, so it's good. If I want to play turn-based games for tactics or strategy then I have strategy games.
you should watch Running Shine's YIIK video
5 seconds
Literally fuck off. Entire combat round shouldn't take 5 seconds.
Believe it or not, this game is a highly-regarded cult classic in Japan. Mostly for the zaniness of the story, the variety of locations/settings, and the bizarre dialogue. It's not "like EarthBound" at all, but I'll bet most ignorant westerners would think of it as an "EarthBound-like" if they tried it.
they take longer on most JRPGs, and this actually requires player input which is more gameplay
If it's actually something dynamic with substance, then it's fine.
If it's just "hit button at this point for extra damage/take no damage" then don't bother. You're balancing two games at that point. Either you design the game around never hitting them, or design it around them always being hit.
So it's just another comedy RPG like Hourai High or Robotrek/Slapstick?
The point of rpgs is planning characters and finding loot. You don't understand what the fuck you are even doing or why when you talk about making combat engaging. Combat is shit in modern rpgs because they took all of the gameplay away to force their narration corridor.
You should be chatting with an AI chatbot if you want actual good answers. They excel in helping you come up with new ideas.
this, combat in rpgs should be mostly dictated by decisions you make outside of combat, trying to make combat itself more "engaging" misses the point of rpgs
That pic
So innovation to the genre is just a bad thing now? How boring.
Or am I just alienating both the turn based players and the action players by creating a game with both?
this one
The main thing to ask yourself is why do you think action commands can improve your game? If you don't think a regular RPG is engaging enough then why do you want to make an RPG in the first place? that doesn't make any sense.
If you make the QTEs the whole meat of the gameplay I think that can work but at that point the rpg mechanics should becomes superficial to focus on the action commands.
So innovation to the genre
all copying SMRPG
Your way of thinking is exactly how Square Enix has ended up a shell of its former self, chasing action over the classic turn-based games that their entire reputation was built upon.
I had an idea once to make an RPG with action commands only for dodging enemy attacks
They're not inherently bad, but they're not a substitute for actual interesting RPG design, either. There needs to be actual interesting substance and strategy behind the fun timed hits shit, otherwise you end up with something like YIIK 1.0.
smoothbrain take, Anon Babble has always served the same purpose you're just too stupid to take advantage of it
The only games with less skill than jrpgs are walking simulators
so trueeeeee
turn based rpgs arent for you then Fucko, dont care didnt ask
Also, to elaborate on this, look at how other games handle them: Mario&Luigi games are incredibly condensed experiences that constantly funnel you through new enemies and new attack commands at a rapid pace so nothing gets stale, as an example. The first two Paper Mario games keep the commands INCREDIBLY short.
I'll admit innovation isn't always good in the end, but action commands are something that I really like and I'm glad the Nintendo RPGs brought it to light, I think it's a good innovation
Never played Paper Mario, butI like Legend of Legaia.
you should create amateur porn im sure everyone in this thread would love to see your gock
require some form of action skills to excel
gets boring after a while it's always pressing the same buttons and shit
Consult youtu.be
boring
removes strategy for gimmicks