Asymmetric sticks vs Symmetric sticks

Asymmetric sticks vs Symmetric sticks
Which one and why?

I move with my left hand and perform actions right my right hand. Therefore, buttons should be readily accessibly by my right hand, and the joystick should be readily accessible by my left. I think D-pads should be taken out of the picture altogether.

PlayStation is meant for action games (Monster Hunter, Souls, Dragons Dogma)
Xbox is meant for racing games (Forza, Hot Wheels, Hydro Thunder)

I prefer symmetrical sticks due to how I hold the controller. asymmetrical only works if you're literally clenching and gripping it

his thumbs aren't opposable

grug-sama...

Do you mainly play 90s games with automatic cameras?

Why would I use a resting position for my right thumb but extend my left? That's weird.

90s and 00s games, yes. Why?

Yes
Video games stopped being good in the late 00s

white dualshock 3

why did nintendo copy xbox if it's "wrong"?

Asymmetrical layouts have shitty dpads which makes them worthless for 2D games and menu heavy games like RPGs.

Iwata died
They got it right before

So they could do the detachable mini controller gimmick.

90% of the time you are using your left hand to move around with joysticks and your right hand to press buttons so the xbox layout makes more sense

It's a pretty pointless debate.
The vast majority of games don't even use the second analog stick for real additional inputs, like dodging, weapon select, or minion control, the kind of one-and-done input that lets you also use the face buttons.
Instead they use it to force you to play cameraman for some asinine reason, because they became obsessed with mouselook control schemes even though consoles don't even have a mouse.

The benefit of the Xbox layout is that you can use the right analog stick and face buttons "symmetrically".
The benefit of the Dualshock layout is that the Dpad is in a very usable position.

Ultimately the sticks don't decide the debate at all, the Dualshock just works better for 2D games because of its Dpad placement and better for 3D games without tank controls because it has a gyro.

90% of the time you are moving the camera with your right hand.

Do you press the d-pad exactly just as much as you press the face buttons? If not, you are an asymmetric freak pretending otherwise

is top left jason?

Do you press the face buttons more often than you move the camera?

put both sticks on the right and dpad+face buttons on the left.

That's what L and R are for

nigga u can move your thumbs

Playstation movie 'games' require no input aside from moving the character and the camera

Holy shit. It makes so much sense now.

I like the asymm sticks but prefer the shapes face buttons and it fucks me up when I have to do letters

Press X!!!!

all 3 major consoles have X in a different spot

this is hands down the best layout for playing souls games

t. never owned any nintöddler product that isn't the gameboy color, but I have a controller with a similar layout

Symmetrical is better. You can't use your index finger on the d-pad while having your thumb on the stick with the Xbox layout.

Implying I'm not using the d-pad

Asymmetric so that the controls you use more are in the more comfortable position for your thumbs

...no one actually plays like this, right?

cant instinctively know what to press based on which control scheme is in use

fucking zoomies

you can move your fingers

Used to be that Monster Hunter was exclusively on PSP. No right stick. The only camera controls were tapping L to position the camera behind your character or using the d-pad to contrast the camera. This is why this is called the Monster Hunter Claw.
Even now it's pretty handy when don't want to stop moving and you want to use healing or other actions that devs keep binding to the d-pad.
I use the claw all the time when I'm playing Final Fantasy XIV with controller.

Symmetrical sticks all the way. I've never played a game and found myself wishing my thumbs were nigh permanently offset from each other.

HEEEY YOOO GUYS

This is too small for my manchild hands. My thumbs sometimes touch each other which feels gay.

Mouse and keyboard
You don't need the analogue input for your movement and aiming with a thumbstick is so bad you need massive aim assist to make it work
The only advantage of the controller is having omnidirectional movement which is barely ever useful over the 8 directions of wasd

At most the analog stick is used equivalently to the face buttons in good 3D games.
If your thumb is always on the right stick, then you should be using a mouse.

Analog stick w/ gyro aiming is just as good and way more comfy. I'd probably try flickstick before going back to kb+m if I still played multiplayer shooters.

Twisting your wrists constantly is the last thing I'd call comfortable
Nothing beats the comfort of a wireless mech keyboard and vertical mouse, you're entirely deflated, no tension whatsoever

snoys look at a controller and fantasise about males

lmao

This. Being able to claw on both sides makes symmetrical better. As an added bonus you also have symmetry in dpad games as it should be.
Special mention to the WiiU layout, the worst of both worlds absolute garbage I hate it so much.

For the umpteenth time,
2D games

Playstation controller

3D games

Asymmetric layout

3D games with heavy emphasis on camera

Wii U controller

The Duelsense is just wrong for most games. That's a fact.
Baby hands need not apply.

either because it doesn't fucking matter they work the same

Retard. Your primary input is the face buttons, not the stick.

You just use the gyro for fine tuning your aim. The stick still does most of the work, the gyro just takes you the rest of the way. I've never hurt my wrist with gyro controls, I have all the time with kb+m.

I like asymmetric but extra back buttons are the new deal breaker for me. No extra customizable back buttons no buy.

Symmetrical allows for dpad utilization without impairment towards left analog usage. I don't understand how anyone could argue against this. I genuinely can do more actions per second on an symmetrical layout and I am extremely confident in my claim.

Everything is mapped to the triggers and bumpers nowadays. In most games you never take your thumbs off the right stick, and if there's something that makes you need to, just bind it to one of the back buttons that all third-party controllers have.

Then the ideal controller would be Wii U layout with back buttons.

Symmetric because it's easier to clawed
What games do you need that for? Uh............ dmc

sonyfags only hate asymmetric because they don't know how to play games

Huh.

Nailed it.

Ugh, god no. How do I hit the d-pad and face buttons with my index fingers then? They don't make a controller with 8 back buttons.

has all of the benefits with none of the flaws.

Your image makes it look like this

I have both layouts and don't see a difference, the entire discussion only outs people as having midget hands.

What kind of fucking dumbass diagram is this?

You just use the gyro for fine tuning your aim. The stick still does most of the work, the gyro just takes you the rest of the way.

That sounds like actual hell that would take months to get used to and days to forget

I've never hurt my wrist with gyro controls, I have all the time with kb+m.

he fell for the desk meme

Not only do they do it but they insist it is the optimal way.

which if i remember two seperate studies right it is for performance (Faster react, input, movement to reach relevant inputs), but the ergonomy is terrible and fucks up your hands faster. But this was years like Circle Pad Pro discussion old.

Pro: more precise aiming/camera controls

Cons: only 8 ways of movement, have to bind (almost) all movement and actions to be controlled by left hand, can easily lose your place on the keyboard, CAPS LOCK, less keys for action commands unless you want to break your fingers, keys have travel time, Windows key, carpal tunnel

Symmetrical makes more sense because you use the d-pad and face buttons for 2D games, and you use both analog sticks for 3D games.

What do you think it is?

I think the problem here is some anons have small hands and claw grip their Duelsense controllers.

move right while turning left on gaystation controller

thumbs are awkwardly next to each other

for those of us with male sized hands, this is a problem. not for japanese people and women

CAPS LOCK

Just play ESDF or GHJK or something.

would take months to get used to and days to forget

Not really. The Steam Controller got me started with in. Played through a bunch of games with in. Then for hooked on Splatoon.

If symmetric is so good why do all the third party companies make asymmetric controllers

I'm starting to think that you don't have fingers otherwise you would know that fingers tend to curl naturally when relaxed

They don't.

The problem is that it's been decades since 2d games were the predominant style of video game. That's why everyone makes their controllers asymmetric.

ignoring half of the argument

Least dishonest asymmetry peddler

You'd be hard pressed to find a legitimate controller manufacturer actually using Sony's inferior design. Nowadays it only happens with modular controllers or licenced Sony ones.

I imagine literal child hands when I see people complaining about the Dualshock.
You're not meant to grip the handles and stretch your thumbs out at a right angle, you cradle it gently on your fingers. It's easily the most comfortable controller but you can't hamfist it and need long enough digits to balance it properly.
Then they fucked it up with the Dualsense by having retards who didn't understand the Dualshock try to copy the Xbox piece of shit.

It's almost as if you don't use both analog sticks in 3d games and your thumbs are always on your main method of movement, the left stick, and your main method of interaction, the face buttons.

I imagine literal child hands when I see people complaining about the Dualshock

Which is funny considering they're made for literal midget hands.

Windows key

u can disable it

I imagine literal child hands when I see people complaining about the Dualshock

you cradle it gently on your fingers.

Anon, that grip is literally for people who lack the finger length to hold it properly.

Do the hands on the left look relaxed to you?
All you need to do is turn your thumb a little, but the retarded comparison by two different people using two different grips with one relaxed and one curved with a death grip are NOT comparable.

Asymmetrical so your hands are symmetrical holding the controller

If you "hold it properly" you end up stretching your thumb. You'll also go so far on the analogs that your thumb tips touch each other.
It's balanced for a reason. The Dualsense isn't and expects you to grip the handles which makes it less comfortable to claw.

You're literally arguing that grasping the handles with your palms is for big hands despite it making your thumbs cover the entire front of the controller, while leaving a gap is for small hands.

Anon, you only think it's tensed because you're a fat fuck and that's a skinny hand.

And this is what I'm talking about, fucking baby hands hamfisting the controller with your knuckles up on the level of the Dpad just to reach the shoulder buttons.
Freakishly small.

Symmetrical. Everything nice and neat together within easy reach. Wii U gamepad and Steam Deck got it right.

I don't even care what controller or is it symmetric or not you use.
The comparison image you posted is retarded because it can be used against both sides at the same time.

You're literally arguing that grasping the handles with your palms is for big hands despite it making your thumbs cover the entire front of the controller, while leaving a gap is for small hands.

As opposed to arguing that the best way to hold it is to hold it in a similar way to playing a bass guitar? The whole point of your grip is to stretch and get more movement rather than the controller sitting in the natural curl of the hand like every other well designed controller.

You're a manlet with short fingers anon.

The whole point of your grip is to stretch and get more movement

Yes you idiot so you don't have to curl up your thumbs to hit buttons and not stretch them out all over the controller.
Do you really think you're expected to get horrible carpal tunnel from using a DS because you're too stupid to not grab it like you grab Tyrone's cock?
You're not meant to i hold it this way.

PS5 controllers and the right stick of xbox controllers require me to stretch my thumb, whereas the left stick of xbox controllers doesn't require any form of stretching.
Also, all of these diagrams just have your thumbs at rest, which doesn't consider the increasingly awkward angle you'd have to have to move the thumbstick down on a PS5 style controller, whereas the xbox style has the left stick perfectly within your thumbs standard range of motion.
This whole thread is full of brown-handed creatures who have never actually held an xbox controller, but think they know otherwise, and are desperate to justify their overpriced machine without any games.

is there some third party controller where the sticks are symmetrical but both outside the dpad and face buttons

I prefer asymmetrical, I can play on xbox like gamepad for hours, on symmetrical one my left hand is going numb after 20-30min

It doesn't matter and nobody really cares it's just another excuse to argue online.

How to you play shooters with your thumb off of the right analog stick?

like the wiiU layout? ipega makes controllers with similar layouts, I only know because I have one of them

can easily lose your place on the keyboard

every keyboard I've ever seen has a tactile bump on F and J

3D games

Asymmetric layout

Only for ones with a big focus on automatic cameras, like platformers.

For shooters I think Wii U controller's best.
Imagine that with back paddles.

Good design concept, but the dpad is terrible and it has digital triggers.

And racers
And rpgs
And action adventure
And just about every 3d game that isn't that isn't a shooter.

Brother, you got the worst taste in game controllers AND layouts! AT least there's enough space between hose sticks unlike the other ones.

Why do you think this is the best? You can't claw the face buttons, making it impossible to aim while jumping, crouching, switching weapons etc.
The only way to compensate is gyro but you could also have a normal layout with gyro.

Still takes a second or so to feel for while you have to dance over the keyboard to hit the plethora of action keys you needed to bind in the first place. Make sure you don't forget to hit Caps Lock on accident on the way back.

Sure, I completely agree.

I'm convinced there's something seriously wrong with people who prefer asymmetric. They've been brain damaged by growing up with shitbox.

And rpgs

Action RPGs maybe, but they're terrible for turn based. And even then, Souls games are terrible with asymmetrical layouts.

Gyro even on 'premium' controllers sucks.
I don't think ergonomically a controller should be claw-gripped. Back paddles need to be impleneted.
Wii U just has a good layout, but shit overall controller.

Might as well as not even have face buttons or a d-pad with that layout. It's impossible to hit anything without taking both things off the sticks. What the hell was Nintendo thinking?

Tempted to get one of these, but I feel like the build quality will be shitty.

What's the best mini controller as a secondary option, guys?

I'm convinced there's something seriously wrong with people who prefer symmetric. They've been brain damaged by growing up with fagstation.

Like said, it's because the joystick is used more with the left, and buttons with the right. If I played something something heavy on the right joystick, like shooters (but those I play on kbm), then I'd want the pad symmetric, but i'd rather have the sticks on the outside than inside then.

Gyro is perfect on the Steam Controller, Hori Steam Controller, and PS4 and PS5 controllers. The only controllers I've had difficulty with gyro were the Switch Pro prices and all of the 8bitdo ones, so it's prob just whatever output method Nintendo made for it just not transferring well to PC.

I mostly play shooters, JRPGs and side-scrollers, so I prefer symmetrical layouts.

Gyro even on 'premium' controllers sucks.

youtu.be/0vUydFKqizk?si=VKC8U1ne2Nno0Yv2

Gyro doesn't suck, gyro implementation in console games sucks.

See With asymmetric your giving up 4 free button inputs just by having the d-pad under the stick.

Holy shit op I can’t stop laughing

asymmetrical or not, the best one is either of them with mappable buttons on back to substitute d-pad

gyro implementation in console games sucks

Yeah, at best you're getting it half-assedly added as an afterthought. Pisses me off that Sony controllers have fantastic gyro, yet the only thing they use it for on their consoles is an alternate way to use their software keyboard.

You know, you don't have to choose to be this retarded. You know that even turn based games have a 3d over world anon, you know it's going to be the part of the game where you spend the most time especially if it's a game with overworld e counters.
So I just have to ask, why would you say something so astronomically stupid as that?

Souls games are terrible with asymmetrical layouts.

No, there's a reason why no one uses symmetrical for souls anymore and that's because it hasn't been exclusive to a console that hasn't ever improved.

Any pc gamer worth their salt will instantly intuit exactly where every key is just by feeling F or J because that's how you touch type. I don't even know how that caps lock thing is supposed to happen, that must be a fat people thing.

It's really terrible in Helldivers 2, but at least it has gyro.
The Dragon's Dogma 2 implementation is excellent though.

Dualsense has better analog triggers than the Xbox controller these days for racing games.

Because he's an xbot.

I literally don't care nigger, as a non retarded human being I can adapt to more than one interface.

8 movement directions.

The mouse gives you more radial precision. There's a reason that movement schemes are less complicated now than old arena shooters.

My friend prefers to play shooters with a controller for some weird reason and he says that the Xbox controller is extremely superior. He's unironically better than me with a mouse so who am I to criticize him.

I shift my hand position and it just happens sometimes, it's not a big deal though. It doesn't happen when I have my keyboard at an angle.

Plus in GT7 you can use gyro to simulate a steering wheel. Way more accurate than relying on an analog stick.

Moving the overworld camera with buttons

Navigating combat menues with sticks

Are you retarded?

Depends on the type of game.

If anything, it's the opposite since the symmetric standard is rooted in the NES and finalized with the Dualshock on the PSX, which still followed the symmetric layout. Like most things Microsoft contributed to the gaming industry, the asymmetrical layout is just a retarded gimmick that mouthbreathers fell for and negatively influenced game design since.

Sorry you're retarded. You have to grip a snoy controller way harder due to it's tiny size and bad form factor

asymmetric is marginally better but it demands the dpad be shrunk and placed in the crappy position which is much worse for the function of a dpad. as far as a default controller for an entire console gen I'd easily take asymmetrical for 2d games to be playable on it.

Convex buttons

Steam Deck has the best controller layout I've ever used, so symmetrical.

Playing shooters on a gamepad

Why? Unless you're playing PSX Doom where all the it does the auto-aim for you so long as you're in the demon's direction, a gamepad will be infinitely worse than a mouse and keyboard.

Xbox >>> PS

It's almost as if you don't use both analog sticks in 3d games

uh, gonna need you to elaborate because this sounds extremely wrong?

You've obviously not played a shooter on controller in decades. It's the better experience now and developers design the games for controller gameplay first. Normal people don't want to use their office equipment from work to play vidya

DualShock 2 was the last good controller ever made

Retard.

None of the control sticks are in a comfortable position on a Symmetrical controller anon
I was gonna talk about how it makes sense Sony fanboys only play movie games where they use the camera more than interacting with things but using both sticks on a Sony controller is even worse

*symmetrical to be playable on it

It's the better experience now and developers design the games for controller gameplay first.

It's going to be infinitely worse trying to precisely aim and maneuver in 3D space compared to a mouse and it always will be. The amount of precision that a mouse gives you is and the ability to map different motions in to roll-pitch-yaw in a smoother manner than an analogue stick makes it superior in every way. That's just a fucking fact. Gamepads will never be a good solution for FPSes or thrid-person shooters just due to how 3 D space works. Look at this and tell me that isn't the case:

youtube.com/watch?v=wJN1VvfHO4M&pp=ygUccXVha2UgbGl2ZSBrZXlib2FyZCB2cyBtb3VzZQ==

Normal people don't want to use their office equipment from work to play vidya

Normalfaggots believe a lot of retarded shit and just go with it and never question it. I don't care what they have to say because it's not only irrelevant, but there's a good chance it's flatout wrong.

D pad should always be above the sticks so dualshock wins

Nigger, are you somehow forgetting how the symmetrical layout has beena thing since the Dualshock 1, when Sony made action/adventure games like the Ratchet and Clank games, Jak and Daxter 1,2 and 3 along with that being the predominant genre of games on the PSX and PS2?

And no one complained about it then because it fucking worked and had a sensible design then compared to artificially putting one analog stick above another in an awkward position for retards that wanted to play FPSes in the worst way possible.

Maybe asymmetrical controllers are just shit. Granted, the Xbox conteroller isn't as abysmal as the Dreamcast or N64 controllers, but it's not good at all from an ergonomic POV, especially when you are playing games that involve constantly moving the camera and moving.

Rollslop

It's mostly Z-targeting, you don't use the right analog stick unless the perspective is wonky.

Bamham slop

You autosnap to everything, precise input is mainly timing and context sensitive.

Cover based shooters

If you're in cover you aim, if you're out of cover you don't.

"precision" shooters

You switch between aim mode and move mode with ADS and auto-aim handles most of the work of aiming.

Most modern titles are a blend of those archetypes and none of them make use of both analog sticks at all times, the vast majority of 3D, dual analog console titles deemphasize using both sticks at once or partially automate movement to give you more room to use the face buttons.

Kill yourself immediately.

xbucks so delusional they literally argue against basic principles of the universe

Cringe

The People who hate the PS controller have small girly kid hands

You misunderstand what he means by "better experience".
He wants the game to play for him. Auto aim is so strong now that even sponsored pros switch to controllers since the high speed and tight hitboxes make it impossible for mkb to compete with literal aimbot.
This man hates video games.

Asymmetrical is shit

Waaa why do you only complain about one side but not the other I'm smarter

Asymmetrical criticism includes both sides you fucking moron. That's what asymmetrical means.

If you are playing a game that needs a joystick for looking then a joystick for movement is good as its a 3d space
if you are using buttons, such as navigating through a menu, or playing a 2d game that doesn't require camera control, then the more discrete input of a dpad is better.

What game uses a stick for movement but still wants you pressing face buttons instead of using a camera? name them, because they don't fucking exist. Dpad + buttons makes sense, stick + stick makes sense, stick + face buttons makes no sense.

I see. That's fucking pathetic then. I will never understand why normalfags will pretend to like something when it's so fucking watered down and that it doesn't even resemble what it originally was supposed to be. If a game fucking plays itself, you might as well be doing something better with your time than pretending to play it.

it's the opposite since the symmetric standard is rooted in the NES and finalized with the Dualshock

You're only proving the point since the NES design follows the same ideology as asymmetric controller design as in your main method of movement is directly opposite the main method of interaction.
In other words, once 3d games became the main style of game the dpad no longer was the main method of movement and had to be replaced with the analog stick.
Also the first controller in the 3d era to follow the NES design philosophy was the Saturn 3d controller granted it trued to split the difference but it still had the main method taking priority.

Like most things Microsoft contributed to the gaming industry, the asymmetrical layout is just a retarded gimmick

Asymmetric design predates the Xbox anon, the gamecube was already using it after all and again, the 3d controller was a proto version of sorts.
Sony on the other hand simply stuck with a design that was dated when it released purely out of spite and continues to stick with it purely to be different rather than adopting a style that's suitable for more than stubby manlet hands.

And no one complained about it then because it fucking worked

Anon, no one complained about it because it was Sony, not because it was good.

Asymmetric Xbox
OR
Symmetric with both sticks on top

PS symettric where both sticks are on bottom is the worst design

more like they copied the gamecube

No one uses claw, faggot

I want only joysticks...
15 joysticks per controller

What do you guys think of how the gamecube has the octagonal thingy arround the analogs, i thought it was neat

Not only is the Playstation symmetrical stick layout retarded but the sticks themselves are just flat out in the wrong place.

Nintendo had it right the first time.

feels good man

Symmetrical but sony is the only decent option which fucking sucks.

I really need to mod a ds4 to have usb-c and a fresh battery.

Sony on the other hand simply stuck with a design that was dated when it released purely out of spite and continues to stick with it purely to be different rather than adopting a style that's suitable for more than stubby manlet hands.

They're both sticking to their designs out of spite and marketability.
Both current mainstream controller layouts are trash, they're both missing features.

Xbox s type would be the best one had they kept the black and white bottons AND added bumpers along with the existing triggers

Okay retard, play with these.

marketability

Not that they actual market the layout in any significant manner. The face buttons are everywhere, not so much the actual layout.

they're both missing features.

That statement doesn't mean anything on its own.

Don't bother, you're likely to break the controller just opening it because of Sony's nonsense design.
Just buy a third party controller like a hori one.

the middle one is an objective improvement over the shitty N64 controller

if you have to take your hand off the controller to grab another part of the controller, then you completely fucked up natural design

Brawler 64 style controller be like.

Do I even exist for you?

Most fags are gorilla gripping their controllers by default which is why you see so many people prefer xbawks controllers.

I'm just glad we don't have a bunch of nostalgiafaggots in here going "UM ACKSHUALLY THE N64 CONTROLLER WAS THE BEST ONE TO EVER EXIST BECAUSE I GREW UP WITH IT!" despite it being one of the most unergonomic designs ever

Even nintendo themselves called the controller a mistake

I wish you were right, but I've been on Anon Babble long enough to see hundreds of people defend it over the years