Meanwhile, in 3 kingdoms Anon Babble...
Meanwhile, in 3 kingdoms Anon Babble
PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP
For me, its the Shu. The most benevolent state
wei having 3 capitals
Totally fair and balanced. NOT. Who came up with this shit?
Ca Cao is stronger than your hero
fuck shu and magic flying horses and shietz
BAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOO
I'm not an expert on Chinese geo-politics but isn't Wei here controlling the core, most populated part of China while Shu is a backwater state?
I always thought she looks like the apothecary girl
Liu Bei got the Sichuan Basin. It's damp and makes for good farmland, meaning it has the power to be independent from the rest of China. Throughout Chinese history, the Sichuan Basin was where political enemies of the empire goes to, it's the most rebellious province, but it's not powerful enough to conquer China from there.
this made haniggers piss and shit in their pants back in late-han dynasty days.
Interesting, thank you China history anon. Anything else interesting you can tell me? Does this bassin have a bit of an unique identity or do the people there identify as 'normal' Chinese nowadays?
More fun than Origins.
Depends. Sichuanese is essentially their own language. Even Sichuan cuisine is culturally unique. How the Sichuanese view themselves in this day and age, I have no idea.
what's wrong with cao pi
> Throughout Chinese history, the Sichuan Basin was where political enemies of the empire goes to, it's the most rebellious province, but it's not powerful enough to conquer China from there.
Han Xin and Liu Bang did it tho and it resulted in the Han empire that lasted 400 years. Guess you never heard about that nugget of information, huh?
Wanted to be as remembered as his dad but did nothing noteworthy to do so.
Which one has the most jade beauties?
Who came up with this shit?
Cao Cao, duh.
I've been reading the novel and I'm just completely lost about everything that happens after Dong Zhou dies
The TV show massively simplifies it all
Feels bad man
jin-chuds
wu-chuds
Everyone else needs to fuck off
CAO CAOOOOOOOO
Leave Cow Cow to me
After all this time, is Total War Three Kingdoms good on its own? Was there some consensus on a mod setup that addresses most of the bellyaching behind the hero system
Reminder that Cao Cao was a tryhard midget who was barely 5ft, why would anyone follow such a lowly being. Certainly no justice believing person would.
benevolence... is a tricky thing
'94 show is a far more complete line-by-line adaptation but that means it keeps the whacky fanfic propaganda parts and drags on (84 1-hour episodes)
Cao cao acted with the Mandate of Heaven and never usurped power
Yuan China is best China
Could you help me find
episode where Yuan Shu becomes emperor
episode where Yuan Shao is defeated by Cao Cao
episode where liu bei meets zhuge liang?
I don't want to watch the whole thing
Juuuuuge
he was also a vegetarian LOL
is there a full english translation out?
i notice a lot of talk about show adaptions of rottk but where is THIS from
Oh nonononononon liubeibros, not like this...
EN wiki page has the ep titles, most of which spoils their whole ep
en.wikipedia.org
Liu Bei meeting Zhugeliang for example is
25 Liu Bei seeks the virtuous
26 Turning back to recommend Zhuge Liang
Oh shit, I didn't know
Thanks a lot
Are they going to add more characters after the samurai warriors cast? The player count isn't doing too well.
is the "big" update for origins this month really just a photo mode and new outfit? No proper free mode, no playing freely as the companions etc?
Eternal reminder
Sleeping Dra- ACK
got sent too far south on patrol
get captured by crazy amazons
crazy wild monkey sex for weeks on end
PLEASE SEND HELP, MY BALLS HAVE SWOLLEN TO THE SIZE OF MEAT BUNS
Cow Pee
Forgot to add ep 27
27 Three visits to the thatched cottage
Zhuge Liang playing hard to get before finally joining, again the title spoils the ep
Is the Chinese civ getting shafted when these civs are introduced with the new AoE2 dlc?
I'm starting to feel that game is too bloated now.
5 ft is monstrously tall in China
What isn't?
Probably yes, like when Dynasties of India split Indians into Hindustanis, Gujarats, Bengalis and Dravidians.
Zhuge Liang is hyped up as the bestest and coolest of the generals and Shu's Tiger Generals are outright legendary
???
End up being BTFO'd by Sima Yi
What gives?
t-That was part of his plan, 5D shogi or whatever chink game they play.
This page reminds me of how RotK '94 had recasting shenanigans like GoT due to how long it took to make.
to be fair, he died from overworking before the fight with Sima Yi even began.
it's ANOTHER episode of wussies begging for jing province
Do nothing
Win
sima yi was about to lose, then suddenly it rained
got a 1/3rd of the way through San Guo last year while out & about
planning on finishing it properly this Summer
moving some wise screenshots off of my phone
see this thread
this thread..... IT WAS MADE FOR ME!
What the FUCK is Zhang Fei's problem, and what the FUCK were the Pokemon devs smoking when they thought Emboar was supposed to be a take on him?
check a map
turn out jing is xbox huge
No wonder why wucucks spend all day seething and crying.
here's your
Cao Cao was based
On what?
hmm, the final evo for the fire starter should have a new typing...
Why do women lack ass!
I need ass!
Dynasty Warriors or Total War 3 Kangdomz to get into this setting?
And no I won't watch the TV series until I played the games
check these explaining the progression of the 5th northern expedition
youtube.com
youtube.com
in short
wei forces on the defensive, assisted by all sorts of terrain and fortifications
shu massively outnumbered, also limited by an extremely overstretched supply line
the entire point was for zhuge liang to attract as much wei attention as possible so that sun quan could open a new front and overwhelm wei
but sun quan jobbed at hefei AGAIN
zhuge liang's attempts to taunt wei into battle failed, entire expedition was a stalemate with little to no fighting for several months
he dies of old age
Play ROTK instead
Mandate of heaven
We all know this video? youtube.com
Dude explains how the basic geography of China shaped its politics
Koei makes ROTK strategy games on the PS2. 10 and 11 are pretty fun but YMMV.
it looks cool and I might be incredibly petty for not getting it just because of the godawful font they use, it looks like fucking raid shadow legends
does dw9 have a free mode battle editor like in older empires games, so you can pick the officers on both sides etc?
Wish they'd add this to Origins, since we probably won't get an actual Empires game until after Origins Part 2
Victory achieved
Through cannibalism
Hao, haooo.
Dude made his wife commit suicide because she was no longer as hot as she was when she was 20 years younger, and then wondered why his son was so upset at him.
Lu Bu died like a chump to Cao Cao.
Hao Zhao was pretty great.
It was all propaganda. Chances are Jiang Wei was just an idiot and Zhuge Liang claimed he was great and took him on as his protege to save face. The horrible results of Jiang Wei after Zhuge Liang's death speak for themself in this regard.
I am now declaring this the theme of the thread.
youtube.com
Also, Wei Yan was never a traitor and did nothing wrong.
Cao cao did nothing wrong
Counterpoint, he fathered Cao Pi.
Your boats are alone on the eve of Friday's battle, huh?
Are you faggots really discussing a soap opera where a character is called cow pee? Get a grip
Cao cao only did one thing wrong
The word trump is english slang for a fart, yet Anon Babble still worships the jewish ground he walks on to this day. Get a grip.
yet another update release date confirmed for Abyss
Origins:
gentlemenofthehan.wordpress.com
Almost all of them are translated at this point
Jiang Wei gave Wei one of it's greatest defeats at the Tao River, only retards think he was actually incompetent
Thoughts on Total War Three Kingdoms?
Really?
All the official Koei twitter does is reposting fanart.
The virgin chinese fears the chad mongolian.
WAY
OF
PEAAAAAAAAAACE
I really like Kilikien video especially this one youtube.com
Thanks babe. Your aid is like sweet dew on a hot summer day
Can't be that great, I don't even remember it. If it's so great, surely it got made into a level in a DW game. Oh right, it didn't. Instead it was just failed campaign after failed campaign after failed campaign that just left Shu weaker and weaker after every single one and left the people resentful of him.
Step aside you little Jiang Wei bitch and make way for a real tactical genius. That's right Deng "Wins the war" Ai.
Deng Ai was beloved by the people for he had the soldiers help the citizens farm in the field and it was said that wherever he went there were great harvests and no hunger was known. In matters of war, he successfully defended against and beat Jiang Wei every single time. When Jiang Wei finally wasn't allowed to waste more soldiers and supplies on another losing northern campaign, Deng Ai took the chance to immediately counterattack and led an army across the mountain pass that everyone thought couldn't be traversed. He appeared at the back door of Cheng Du and forced Shu to surrender right there on the spot.
What a fucking Chad! A winner, not like that loser Jiang Wei.
Nanman
Cur omnes illius regionis homines oculos obliquos habent, et cur tam breves et imbecilles sunt?
Ripped. Genius. Loved by the people. Won.
Deng Ai is a true hero of the 3 Kingdoms!
<<< Daily reminder that chinks actually believe this was real >>>
The balls of this motherfucker.
things that never happened for a 100
Post the best DW track
youtube.com
It's not exactly high fantasy, most of it is somewhat grounded and is just wuxia hypebeasting.
tsk tsk, sima yi knew that a dangerous hunting dog would be put down once the prey is caught.
Iesayu pulled the same trick IRL and it actually fucking worked lmao
it's such a shame the series stopped being fun to play after 4/5
another case of japs attributing chinese legends to themselves
In reailty Ieyasu literally shat his pants and Shingen retreated because he caught a bullet
Nobunaga sitting there like bish I did it 1st.
Origins part 2 predictions?
No big playable roster, but CAW instead of fixed protag
Ziluan appears as an NPC
have to fight him as an honorable test of passage, or because he's grown jaded with how things unfolded
Ends at Wuzhang Plains because the Jin era sucks ass
5
The mediocre ost ruins the vibe despite the overall improvement of gameplay.
Americans looking to insert a fart joke at any opportunity
HEHE SIRRY MONGORIAN, CHINA HAVE BEST BIGGEST WALL IN THE WORLD
It's actually in the historical record. The madlad was a different guy, though.
Shu was good for kids who played DW3-4-5. You would be captivated by how cool the five tiger generals are, how their ideals are based on timeless traditional values like friendship and benevolence. But later you'd realize Liu Bei is a bit of a shitstain and their ideals are actually a farce and paper thin. And Zhuge Liang is such an annoying mary sue. Not to mention none of the later games add any cool Shu people.
Wei is ideal for teenagers. Cao Cao is an ambitious and charismatic warlord and magistrate. They already had a very solid lineup with Xiahou Dun, Cao Ren and Xu Huang but DW7-8 added some extremely cool motherfuckers like Jia Xu and Yu Jin.
Wu is the faction for grownups. They don't give a fuck. They don't have lofty ideals. They're just a bunch of bros in it to win it. Serve some cunt like Liu Bei or a political snake like Cao Cao? Hell nah, we can do better. Dudes like Lu Su, Han Dang, Huang Gai, Taishi Ci, Zhou Tai and Cheng Pu are perfect for this audience.
Concubine kills the emperor, his wife and his kids
Her heir is next in-line with the mandate of heaven
He's 4
Eunuch bros, are we in charge?
Didn't a Japanese guy do the literal exact same thing?
Which one was real?
Wu is the worst of the three, imagine never winning a offensive battle against Wei for 50 years
Anon Babble hates china and deems everything from there as chinkslop
somehow all three kingdoms related threads are civil and have discussions in autistic detail
What is this phenomenon?
the most trustworthy chinese
buy new 5080
yellow river floods
FUUUUUUUU
Westerners understand Chinese history better than the Chinese do.
3 kingdoms is just chinese LOTR, it's civil because it's not serious at all, especially as Dynasty Warriors is the driving factor and its been campy & over the top since DW2
Since DW3 really and if you have a problem with that, well...
You think there are chinese people larping as european kings?
Dynasty Warriors is a Japanese game series.
Where I can learn about chinese history?
This seems fun but It goes over my head and remember all the ching zung chao Xi names hurt my brain.
But I remember I was huge into dynasty warriors 5 when I was younger.
CHING CHONG NIP NONG
What the fuck happened to Anon Babble? Who the fuck cares about this chink shit
Wu is the faction for grownups. They don't give a fuck. They don't have lofty ideals. They're just a bunch of bros in it to win it.
For most of the time they're just trying to build something in the middle of barbarian territory. Wu was basically all tribes with some deals with Han dyn. to prevent them from pillaging shit or dodging taxes.
Chinese only lived in a few places like north Vietnam (the origin of that place), Canton (it was Wu trying to keep that area from switching to Han [Shu] that had them split it up and create the 3 Guans, Guandong, Guanxi, Guannan), etc.
Shi Xie and his clan being the actual, definitive Wu experience.
Sadly can't find a good map for it ATM but these guys are really running colonisation efforts more than anything else.
Start here.
It's the novel. It's not a historical document, but there is a lot of truth mixed in with it. You'll probably be able to tell what was clearly made up and you'll be able to see the obvious Shu bias in it. Having previously played DW will make it more fun for you too as you'll be able to put images and voiced (However inaccurate) to the people in the story.
Total War Three Kingdoms is at least as good as Attila unless you have a terminal case of China derangement syndrome
Just play Dynasty Warriors. If you want more, play Romance of the Three Kingdoms. If you want more, there's the 1994 Three Kingdoms tv show and a Romance of the Three Kingdoms anime.
I was very thrilled when my boy Lu Xun was granted full military auth and btfo liu bei
lies and deception
donno, but I do think a DW style game set in Medieval Britain would sell well. Celts/Britons, Vikings, Saxons as factions. Slow down the combat so it feels heavier and less anime, and make it a bit more immersive = a winning combo that would do well. Might even outsell the mainline DW games.
The Chinese should be fucking happy about it too because their game writers can't write for shit.
why did he do it Anon Babble?
is this the 1990 version?
is it fully translated yet?
kino btw
My brother, Heaven has bestowed unto us a great treasure in that regard
I always thought she looks like the apothecary girl
Maomao is a very good girl and should not be associated with sex.
is there any accuracy to this period? it just seems like Chinese fantasy with no basis on any facts
It's fanfiction/propaganda at the time, but based on real history.
Cao cao, who who had just named himself Cao Cao Cao (cao means capital in chinese)
I don't associate Qingyi with that either so
Cao Mengde did it first.
It's not unlike most western history at its core, but the difference is different civilizations reporting the same facts so it's easier to gauge how much bullshit some greek or roman authors were spewing about their own history. Later on, different kingdoms.
Chinese history is a big country that destroyed large swathes of its own registers to defame previous rulers and dynasties so this proof checking process is way harder to be done.
which one of you is that hanwsh guy
there are hard records of the Three Kingdoms, but Romance is a historical novel with a lot of embellishments (some complete fabrications, others giving hard answers to historical unknowns for the sake of drama)
en.wikipedia.org
Not that anon, but quite so. For one thing it's VERY mountainous. They build vertically there, and you may come across videos where travelers posting videos of difficulty finding the true ground level at the place
In the context of three kingdoms - the geography makes invading the area quite difficult. On top of making enough food to be self-sufficient, they also make good money from exporting their high quality silk - which was such a popular luxury item that it kept being smuggled into both Wei and Shu despite efforts to sanction it
but it's not powerful enough to conquer China from there.
Anon, China was literally created in Sichuan.
Qin won and conquered all of China (for the first time in history) to create a unified state after the feudal land expansion system pushed some unwanted nobodies into the mountains... and they found paradise on the other end.
Chinks have been buck breaking and massacring mongols for centuries. Look up dzungar genocide
Im on my second playthrough of the heroes adventure, what are some other good wuxia gaems?
Japan loves kongming
It's a romanticized telling of history, because in most cases in history an important general will die shitting from dysentery or falling off their horse and breaking their neck rather than in some dramatic anime duel
Japan loves everything Chinese except actual Chinese.
They're like me!
ancient china != modern china
For 3K, torrent either en.wikipedia.org
Return after 100 hours of cultivation, then wing it and learn the rest via Dynasty Warriors or shitposting and memes.
looool
If I were I Chinese peasant during that era I would just kill myself.
You would most likely starve to death.
Think the Trojan War, but slightly more grounded. Most mythical gets is superpowered horses and sharp daggers.
I can't imagine being a peasant during any kind of war to be a good time.
sima yi
oh that malesub with a femdom wife?
to be fair most americans have german ancestry
This. It's the same thing as the stuff Americans teach their kids about Founding Fathers, Thanksgiving, protestant work ethic in school. Brits about the glories of the empire and its peaceful dissolution, the fight against slavery, etc.
Czechs about Hussite ideals, historical atheism, German oppression.
Everyone takes history and then rewrites shit to feed the populace. Only in the case of RotK, it is a rewrite from early Ming period, hence why they invent shit like "China always comes back together" (easy to say after Mongols united it by conquest after 400 years of disunity, right?), why Han gets to be the good guys (Mongols just ran a train on our ass, so clearly letting Wei win was a fuck up) and so on.
is there any accuracy to this period? it just seems like Chinese fantasy with no basis on any facts
No. There are actual historical records from the period that no one reads anymore. What everyone reads and talks about isntead is a bunch of fantasy vaguely based on the history.
"But surely some of it is historically accurate then"
It really isn't. Look up some of the most basic stuff and you'll see entire historical battles deleted in the fantasy and fantasy battles made up from nothing, not to mention all the fantasy characters that are complete opposite from the historical persons they're named after.
most americans aside from the amish probably have african ancestry, utterly mongrelized mutts
The difference is that we still have historical records to compare against so we actually know how inaccurate ROTK is, whereas we don't have much to compare the Iliad against.
you didnt get my joke...
This period was 1700 years ago, so you gotta ask yourself how accurate you want surviving records to be.
Also, compared to other civilisations, the chinese honestly keep pretty good history - because they are VERY damning to themselves. Three thousands years of egregious peasant poverty, needless deaths, wanton warmongering, pathetic deaths, mismanagement. They have the most recorded accounts of human cannibalism due to famine by the way - it's in the historical accounts they wrote themselves.
The Three Kingdoms period does make for great story-telling thanks to generous accounts of back-and-forth between competent diplomats and soldiers. If you find them too good to be real, you can say the same for Hannibal and Scipio.
i did, you didn't get mine (it was a shit joke to be fair)
Oh right, it didn't
It's almost like the stages are decided on arbitrary reasons, like wei's retarded campaign in 8
According to your logic, Xu Chu's recruitment is very important since it has appeared as a stage multiple times
wh-what a chad guyssss
Oh yeah, preferring to tredge through the mountains because you know you can't defeat Jiang Wei and going for the cowardish Liu Shan is very typical chad behavior. Good thing he died in the cuckcage like the cuck he was.
Liu Bei was one ugly motherfucker.
t. infanticidal shoe maker
You can't prove there weren't 5 million persians at thermopylae, and they rode giant firebreathing ants or something
no, wu is the backwater. shu has extremely fertile farmland
for 50 years
Hey, that's longer than Shu's entire history.
You're confusing the records with the mythology. The canonical summary book of the historical material was compiled only about 90 years after the period and are still extant to this day, but no one reads those. Everyone reads the mythology instead, with the canonical summary book (Sanguo Yanyi) of the mythology compiled about 1200 years after the period (with some of the modern "canon" mythology even starting to add to/replacing that; the myth around Cao Chong being poisoned/a character at all is even younger than the Yanyi)
Warriors series were always having threads in Anon Babble
Liu Bang only managed to do so because Han Xin was fucking broken
Oh yeah, preferring to tredge through the mountains because you know you can't defeat Jiang Wei
you know you can't defeat Jiang Wei
can't defeat Jiang Wei
LMAO! Deng Ai was undefeated against Jiang Wei before he did this and he beat him again. Holy shit, the Shu fanboyism and cope is real.
wasn't it just racism
....which is why he noclipped through the mountains to avoid Jiang Wei....
Food wouldn't be allowed to kill itself
Also, compared to other civilisations, the chinese honestly keep pretty good history - because they are VERY damning to themselves.
It's not to themselves. Different states, different rulers. One stupidity that gets repeated online is that they always shat on the last dynasty the moment a new one took reins.
In reality, this was a post-mortem. More often than not a genuine analysis of what went wrong and what has to change not to end up like them.
Tang was torn apart by armies becoming loyal to their generals.
So a hundred years later, Song made sure generals would never be allowed to become too attached to their men. They had to periodically rotate to the capital. Enjoy the splendor and presence of being on capital guard duty.
But this screwed them over in wars where they had to rotate out troops despite needing them on the front.
And so, again hundreds of years later, Ming looked at this and came up with another fix. Place the capital as the lynchpin of defense on the border with nomads, build fuckhuge walls around it (the birth of the Great Wall) to make people not fuck off somewhere safer.
And that's how they solved it. Even with rotations, the most well-armed, fed and loyal army was always where it was needed... in Beijing, the entrance to China proper for anyone daring to try and invade the place.
The key difference was that Liu Bang and Han Xin (and Qin before them) also had Guanzhong, and were fighting enemies that were also divided and fighting among each other.
Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang got bottled up in Sichuan and couldn't even take Guanzhong, and Wei was one unified state rather than 4-5 states also fighting each other at the same time.
They should have listened to Wei Yan
Why is the Three Kingdoms Era the only part of chinese history anyone cares about?
China is older than most modern countries, surely there are equally if not even more interesting eras than the time a shoe maker, a clan full of worthless retards and the country's prime minister got into a fight that killed possibly hundreds of millions.
I just assumed that anon was asking about the records that Romance was based on. The Romance of Three Kingdom is work of fiction and not to be taken for historiographical values. That said, the chinese will tell you "the young should not read Water Margin and the old should not read Romance of the Three Kingdoms" for the fear that their impressionable minds will draw influence from it instead of regarding it as entertainment.
You see this back in the Han-3K era too, with how Liu Bang re-introduced enthroning cadet branches as Kings after studying the downfall of Qin and believing them over-centralized, Cao Pi focusing on re-centralizing and greatly restricting Wei's cadet branches after observing Han splitting apart from de-centralization, and Sima Yan greatly re-empowering Jin's cadet branches after studying Wei being usurped by Jin.
Why is the Three Kingdoms Era the only part of chinese history anyone cares about?
It has the best media about it
Just attack lmao
How is that a plan?
Isn't even real history and people like the story. Just like the Iliad or the Odyssey.
look I am being reductionist
if only there were more paremeters to it besides that
How hard or easy is it to get into the Koei ROTK strategy games? Are they even worth it?
anyone ever think that like
97.5% of history is bullshit
the winners write "what happened" and obviously its going to be biased bullshit
The difference with the Illiad and Odyssey is that ROTK actually still has extant real history to compare against, but everyone just willfully tries to ignore it because it's boring and no one actually cares about real history.
It's like if we had a historical record of the Trojan War still extant, that everyone just willfully ignored because no one wants to acknowledge that historically recorded Achilles was a pretty ordinary guy who was only important enough to be named like three times, or historically recorded Hector was actually a treacherous dishonorable guy who beat his wife and the complete opposite of Iliad Hector. No one actually cares about historical accuracy, they just want to be entertained.
ROTK 8 Remake is rather easy, but it involves a lot of busy work. Personally, it got boring midgame.
we still have historical records to compare against
Except Kongminigga banned historians from Liu Shan's court so we don't actually have records of how good Adou was a ruler. It's one reason why the 2010 series skipped those parts.
The only parts of history I think are true are the ones I enjoy the most
But nobody won in 3K
The entirety of chinese history gets covered repeatedly domestically in China. But only 3K got famous internationally because Koei made a game series out of it.
This is an oversimplification. It's also in the best interests of the "winners" to figure out what really happened in order to understand why they won, in order to be able to keep winning.
Also, you have plenty of examples of losers writing history to spite the winners, who are often too busy winning to notice the losers writing the history. ROTK's pro-Shu narrative wasn't entirely pulled out of nowhere. You can see the seeds of the pro-Shu perspectives even in the historical records, because the primary compiler of the project was a former Shu subject who seems to have worked hard to slip in as much pro-Shu material that he could under the noses of the Jin regime.
internationally
In Europe*, Americans always hated this series
Why is the Three Kingdoms Era the only part of chinese history anyone cares about?
This is the biggest historical manga of our generation by magnitudes. It's on its 3rd movie adaptation, IIRC.
And it's not 3K.
3K is simply the only thing western devs are even vaguely familiar with since some folks grew up with Dynasty Warriors.
He didn't. This is a modern misunderstanding of a complaint that the official Court archival department was underfunded, a complaint that was most likely Chen Shou getting a chip on his shoulder when he realized just how much more archival material Wei and Wu had kept compared to his former home state.
But Capcom made the cool video games.
Does Anon Babble really hate china? Every thread about chinese gachaslop is fawning over the copy-pasted anime titties
I think you're exaggerating a bit on it but you are correct that a lot of historical records are subject to biases, misinterpretations or just outright lies, all of which can be intentional or otherwise.
You can even see this in recent events on something like the internet and how many cultural events are often twisted or misinterpreted against what you might've experienced to suit a specific narrative.
I would never have guessed
WHAT THE FUCK IS CULTIVATION
HOW CAN YOU LEARN TO FLY JUST BY PUNCHING HARDER
is there any place where japan DOESNT get culture shocked?
Ayooo them Yellow Turbans wildin, what are we gonna do?
tfw 90% of the Anon Babble activities are gachaniggers spamming bullshit to justify sunk cost fallacy.
woah, this is interesting. I wonder which of the three factions will win this war?
the answer is none of them. The worst characters get to the throne, fund one of the worst dinasties of all time and fuck the country again by getting into a huge civil war (that results in barbarians raping everything)
I now understand why people stop caring after Kongming dies
USA?
Americans frequently portray themselves as savage animals living in absolute shitholes
This is a wumao thread.
Yeah, I lament, but I agree there were genuine attempts (made by truly remarkable persons) at trying to uncover the source of their problems and improving on them. In my defence, reading chinese history can make anyone very, very cynical.
Because for china's long history of conflicts - the Three Kingdoms was that time where they had the best teams and the best players. It's like the late 70's to 90's for the NBA.
maybe hawaii, but even then they always notice the stares
mostly from horny flips and people who still swear to hate japs for pearl harbor
Origins is fucking awesome once you hit TW difficulty. There's a lot of fujobait but the girls are just as thirsty, if not more so.
Basically this:
Read a very high level account of what generally happens to have a foundation, then watch the 2010 series, then the 1994 one. I went in blind and was super confused on my first watch because they assume you know the background, which is logical. If you watched an Arthurian series, you wouldn't want to waste time explaining what is excalibur or the grial or merlin.
Don't worry about remembering names, the 2010 series has a very helpful name and title card every time a character appears.
We don't like the current managers that claim to inherit the chinese legacy. The civilisation history as a whole itself is fun to read about, like the Romans
The romance is a good place to start. Nowadays the actual historical account is not as important as what people discuss, that being the legend.
actual historical account is not as important as what people discuss, that being the legend.
It's stupid, but it still bums me out a little how this is the case. I dunno, I just kind of feel bad for how historical Zhou Yu basically has to give his name to a fictional character who is described as the exact opposite of him. Sort of creates this feeling that what you actually do in life is kind of meaningless because it'll just be replaced by what people think makes the better story, even if it's straight up the exact opposite of what you did.
RotK was originally (the popular story en.wikipedia.org
People who got fucked over at the start of Han are getting back at Han's founder. The guy who assigned all the roles in heaven was Sima Yi and for doing it well, he gets to enjoy all the spoils.
But karma doesn't take sides so the good deeds of Liu Bei and co get repaid when their descendant (Liu Yuan) fucks up Jin. Thus putting all things right.
Everything makes perfect sense if you read it from that perspective. The theme is karma doesn't fuck around and every villain will get his due. In this life, or once he's reincarnated/felt by his descendants. And the OG main character is not any of the 3 dudes by Sima Yi, who's the guy orchestrating the whole thing to dish out fair punishments at heaven's request.
The theme is that the perceived merits of each different kingdom was what ended up ruining it in the end.
But karma doesn't take sides so the good deeds of Liu Bei and co get repaid when their descendant (Liu Yuan) fucks up Jin. Thus putting all things right.
If you ignore that after this happened there were 200 years of more civil war until the Tang came along. I may be wrong on the amount of time, not checking the wiki
Don't confuse your western ideals of retribution to how Taoism works, you dog. Remember the words: The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide.
It's about cycles and how everything eventually comes to an end, not about vengeance. About how lofty ideals of loyalty, family, and meritocracy can become toxic too. Not about retribution.
Liu Yuan was one of the warlords during the collapse of Western Jin. He wasn't actually descended from Liu Bei, but a Xiongnu chieftain who had changed his name to Liu and claiming descent from Liu Bang based on the legend that Liu Bang had married a daughter to the Xiongnu chieftain, making all Xiongnu chieftains descendants of Han via a female line.
Change one event from this period. What do you pick? Myself, I'd change Liu Bei's mind about invading Wu
He wasn't actually descended from Liu Bei
I am aware. Funny how Liu Bei only had a single biological son during that period. Almost as funny as how much he loved sleeping with his bros. I know it wasn't uncommon, but he REALLY liked it.
No wanky my flanki, the bitches need food!
>Liu Yuan is a descendant of Han royal lineage
Can't believe Xiongnu propaganda still exists in the year 2025, Li Guang is rolling in his grave
I'm talking about the story that RotK was built on and RotK itself.
If you notice, it doesn't give a fuck about what happened to Tang. Neither does RotK in any of its versions.
And you can check the fucking wiki yourself, I'm referencing the text we're gleaning this fact because there's no way most people here ever heard of it.
Remember the words: The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide.
That's a later addition.
And Ming is already knee-deep in Neo-Confucian blending of the three faiths, the need to be able to understand stories told through Confucian/Buddhist/Taoist lens based on their intended audience and all that other shit.
see
...Good thing it doesn't reference what happened later on in the Jin dynasty, either, then.
The book, if you've read it, makes a cvery clear point at what it's about, and retribution isn't one of them.
In the mythology, sure, but the historical man is recorded as having at least three biological sons and at least two daughters. Liu Shan had two younger half-brothers recorded as receiving princely titles. A record of Cao Cao's cousin Cao Chun mentions off hand that he captured two of Liu Bei's daughters during the pursuit of Liu Bei in 208.
Ah, ok.
Kind of a tangent, but there's also this one off hand record that appears in a collection of anecdotes (meaning it could be completely made up, or could be a real story not recorded in the main history books because it's kind of pointless trivia that a serious historian of the era wouldn't care about) that Liu Bei once got obsessively fixated on a statue of a beautiful woman.
Yes.
The map is inaccurate. Wei actually had five capitals. Also Wu had two.
Cao cao cao cao cao
cow cow actually recruits lu bu
...Good thing it doesn't reference what happened later on in the Jin dynasty, either, then.
Except it does.
records
Romance. We were talking about romance.
I'm not kidding. Cao Pi designated Chang'an, Luoyang, Xuchang, Ye, and Qiao as five capitals, though in practice he and his son really only ever went between Luoyang and Xuchang.
Wu maintained two de facto capitals, Jianye and Wuchang, due to the difficulties involved in maintaining control and coordination between Jing and Yang provinces.
That's kinda cool, but why did he do it? Did he also have 5 different councils for each city?
Wonder if there's a better way to write the Shu-Wu division. Following the records isn't the best either because Zhou Yu just... kinda dies before the big campaign launches.
Timeless Romance. A HK movie from the 90's. The plot reads like something Nomura would write
What language did the Xiongnu speak?
Anon, this isn't Records, this is the book-story that Romance of the Three Kingdoms translates into 文古文. This is the book that invented the Oath at the Peach Garden, the invincible Lu Bu, the superstrategist ZhugeLiang, etc.
And it's a book all about Sima Zhongda, a random wrongdoer tasked by heaven to repent and orchestrate rebirths of certain people to dish out karmic justice on Han dynasty's founding personae.
, this isn't Records
But it says it is!
And it's a book all about Sima Zhongda, a random wrongdoer tasked by heaven to repent and orchestrate rebirths of certain people to dish out karmic justice on Han dynasty's founding personae.
Sounds pretty nice honestly.
Three Kingdoms DLC for AoE2 is adding hero units into normal ranked play
Kinda cringe, desu
We don't have any record of his reasoning or motivation, but my own best guess pulled out of my ass is that there were two main ideas behind it:
1. The symbolic element of honoring all the "roots" of Wei: Luoyang and Chang'an were the traditional Han capitals, Xuchang was the capital at Han's end and transition to Wei, Ye was Cao Cao's headquarters during his final campaigns, and Qiao was the Cao family's registered ancestral homeland
2. Cao Pi wanted to be a very active ruler who regularly toured the empire. During his short reign he traveled between Luoyang and Xuchang quite frequently.
. The symbolic element of honoring all the "roots" of Wei: Luoyang and Chang'an were the traditional Han capitals, Xuchang was the capital at Han's end and transition to Wei, Ye was Cao Cao's headquarters during his final campaigns, and Qiao was the Cao family's registered ancestral homeland
This feels like it could be right. I wonder how expensive all these designations were.
It says "records" because it's translating the "zhi" in the book title. It's not the actual San Guo Zhi, it just also has the word "zhi" in it.
Sanguo Yanyi actually used to be properly titled Sanguo zhi Yanyi, but the zhi was eventually dropped in common usage precisely because of confusion like yours.
Link to read this?
That guy is doing classic Zhuge Liang wank. Zhuge Liang said it was a bad idea, so it must have been! Please ignore that none of Zhuge Liang's plans were able to actually work in taking Chang An.
Time and again, Zhuge Liang is shown to be a terrible judge of character. He elevated Ma Su, who fucked up so badly that even Zhuge couldn't ignore it. He chose Jiang Wei to be his protégé and successor, who blundered everything and brought Shu to ruin. He insisted Wei Yan was disloyal and would betray Shu, yet he never did, despite Zhuge Liang actively trying to get own general killed in a fire ambush! Wei Yan would have been justified in he defected after that, but he still stayed loyal to Shu and don't even get me started on that traitorous snake Yang Yi.
Wei Yan was the most competent general Shu had at that point and it wasn't even close. Would the Chang An lightning strike have worked? We don't know. What we do know however is that nothing else ever did.
Zhuge Liang was basically an autistic sperg who didn't know how to properly get along with people who didn't inflate his own ego and consistently misjudged the character of others.
accesson.kr
You can read an analysis of the thing here, use the English translation of the book I posted Records of the Three Kingdoms in Plain Language or if you can read pinghua, the library which hosts it here in Japan keeps it public (no OCR, but it is easily legible).
digital.archives.go.jp
this anon made this image btw
Wei was based lets fuck with the enemy at their gate.
The analysis seems very interesting, thanks!
Minecraft user before being banned
Sort of creates this feeling that what you actually do in life is kind of meaningless because it'll just be replaced by what people think makes the better story, even if it's straight up the exact opposite of what you did.
But consider this, we know the biographies and how they conflict with the novel. So clearly the truth of Zhou Yu did come to light.
Why are Shu such dumbasses
Sure, but think about how many other people might have been completely overwritten with no counter-evidence left.
You have to understand that the invasions of Wei through Shu had to be done by crossing the mountains with this kind of road. It was impressive that Zhuge managed it as much as he did and came somewhat close to winning
Wei Yan chimped the fuck out as soon as Kongming died, he was a dog
Would the Chang An lightning strike have worked? We don't know.
It was too risky a manouver. What if it failed? All Shu soldiers would be dead, retreating would be difficult.
why did the yellow turbans do all that though
Also should drive home the achievement of Sima Zhao and Zhong Hui in conquering Shu over those mountains, as the mountains worked both ways.
I don't know what the fuck he was thinking, ROTK actually makes him look better and Zhuge worse by having him get killed before he actually does the stupid shit he did in history. Historically every other officer agreed to retreat after Zhuge's death with Wei Yan insisting they keep invading. He burns down these roads so the Shu army can't retreatWhen he gets caught, his men defect because they don't want to defend him. What was his actual plan? Invade Wei by himself? Defect to Wei?
The Han was falling apart from corruption and plague and famine and shit, the peasants rose up. Interesting thing that isn't talked about often to note that it did have supporters within the government who were planning the revolt
Too bad they didn't manage to go through with their plot, poor Ma Yuanyi
What was his actual plan?
Personally my own guess would be that he just kinda assumed everyone would agree he was right and join him. He was probably one of those stubborn types who gets so convinced that something is "obviously right" that everyone will agree if only he could just make them see.
the Han had fallen
millions must die
This always the eternal struggle and why you should personally strive to be truthful. Eliminate all forms of lying in your daily life. Do not see things as you want them to be, but as they are, for that is the truth.
If you can do these 2 things, your life will be markedly better. Beyond this however, you have to accept and make peace with the fact that liars will always exist. Acceptance of that is not condoning their actions. Just realizing that you can't change such a monumental facet of the world and human nature outside of yourself, so that there is no point in feeling negatively about it.
When it comes to history and official lies, you can at least take heart in knowing that there will always be people questioning what actually happened.
one of us
Risk is inherent in war. What if the supply depots weren't able to be burned at the Battle of Guan Du? The Battle of Chi Bi was full of so much risk that it's insane how Wei actually lost that battle. You don't win wars by refusing to take risks. If anything, Shu's refusal to take that risk just guaranteed their own slow decay and eventual death over the many years that would follow.
Shu's only chance for victory ever lied with some daring action that couldn't be anticipated. They simply didn't have the numbers and resources to ever beat Wei in conventional warfare, and they didn't.
Another has fallen to my spear!
You mean all of the sycophants that Zhuge surrounded himself with in life took his side after death? Wow. What a shock.
Reminder that every one of those generals that agreed with Zhuge damned Shu to its inevitable decline and defeat. At least Liu Shan refused to cave to them and still gave Wei Yan full honors with his burial.
Hundred cocks to Da Qiao's mouth.
Thousand cocks to Da Qiao's asshole.
Million cocks to Da Qiao's cunt.
Every single of her orifices should be ravaged violently until it's filled with piss and cum. Fucking shortskirted turboslut, worth only for public meat toilets.
OP becomes ED of last episode
I wanna give a quick shoutout to the nation of Wu, that completely fucked everything up and led to the fall of the three kingndoms by simply being traitorous bastards
Burning the road home to try and strand the army in enemy territory because you didn't get your way is peak dumbass douche nonsense, I have no sympathy for Wei Yan
I agree that risk is inherent, but that move was a bit too risky. You couldn't move many troops out of the mountains without being spotted, and unless they took the city fast, it would turn to a siege, which would benefit Wei thanks to the resources and Shu's infinitely long supply lines.
Guan du
Assaulting Wu Chao isn't the same as taking the biggest city of the most populous state.
The Battle of Chi Bi was full of so much risk
The exception proves the rule. Also, Cao Cao's army didn't have much naval training.
You don't win wars by refusing to take risks.
Back at you, taking too much risk can be outright devastating.
Even if Wei Yan was succesful, he'd need to actually hold the city.
At least Liu Shan refused to cave to them and still gave Wei Yan full honors with his burial.
He didn't though. In fact Liu Shan ordered Wei Yan's clan exterminated, solidifying Wei Yan's official status as a traitor. The only one who tried to defend Wei Yan was either Chen Shou or a possible unknown author Chen Shou borrowed from in writing Wei Yan's biography entry to include a desperate argument that Wei Yan was not "really" a traitor.
Quick rundown on 3 kingdoms?
Based, they are the reason Shanghai is the biggest chinese city
Liu Bei promised to return the land to Wu. Why couldn't he just keep his word? All he had to do was return the province to Wu, and there would have been no Battle of Yi Ling. Wu and Shu both lost so many talented generals, supplies, and numerous soldiers in that battle. Honestly, it's the real moment that decided the fate of the 3 kingdoms and guaranteed that Wei was going to be the eventual winner. Under new management of Jin in the end, but still.
Aging Han dynasty shits the bed, warlord era begins, there can only be one, lol outside bet wins.
the empire long united must divide, long divided must unite
YOU MEAN THE FUCKING GUY WHO LITERALLY JUST WANTED TO RETURN THE HAN TO ITS FUCKING FORMER GLORY AND WHO'S GENERAL GUAN FUCKING YU LITERALLY GAVE PARTS OF IT BACK SLOWLY BECAUSE IT WAS SO FAR INGRAINDED INTO THEIR OWN CULTURE AND PEOPLE RULINNG IT FOR SO LONG THAT IT WOULD TAKE TIME BEFORE WU SHOULD TAKE IT BACK
AS WELL AS THE FUCKING RIGHTS OF JING PROVINCE NEVER WAS IN THE HANDS OF FUCKING WU IN THE FIRST PLACE
THAT NIGGER SUN CE GOT SO FUCKING MAD ABOUT HIS DAD GETTING SORTA FUCKED OVER THAT HE THOUGHT ALL THAT LAND WAS HIS?????
FUCK OFF NIGGERLOVER
YOU AND YOUR FUCKING SIMA CLAN WORSHIPERS ARE THE FUCKIN REASON WHY SHU LOST AND WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS SHIT
WU ARE NOTHING BUT FUCKING TRAITORS THAT DESERVE THE ROPE
Also, Cao Cao's army didn't have much naval training.
Personally I think this part might be a little bit overblown, because the parts of Cao Cao's army from Qing and Xu provinces would have naval training, as per an anecdote of Liu Bei being concerned if the ships his scouts had seen were from Cao Cao's army or Sun Quan's army.
What really fucked Cao Cao was logistics and epidemic. If he could maintain supply lines and not have disease wiping out his army, he could have eaten any loss at Chibi and continued on. In fact, he already did eat at least one defeat right before Chibi, as there is an off hand mention that he attempted a forced crossing that was defeated by Zhou Yu before Zhou Yu led the counter-attack that became remembered as "the" battle of Chibi.
In fact, I think the whole "jamming ships together" that was exploited in Huang Gai's fire attack was Cao Cao trying to prepare a second attempt, as massing your army together is pretty standard when about to attempt an attack.
Fun fact, Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang promising to return Jing to Wu is an invention of the novel; it's funny because I think the intent is to make them look like epic masterminds tricking idiot Wu, but it makes them look like treacherous bastards instead. Historically, Shu and Wu took half of Jing, with Wu taking the northern half that bordered Wei. Not wanting to deal with Wei there, they exchange their half of Jing with some other land of Shu's. Then when Wu fails their attacks on Wei, they get pissy and start talking about how Jing was loaned out.
There's a recurring trend of the ROTK novel making Shu out to be worse than they were historically, because they want to make them look cool but it weirds out modern audiences. See the baby throwing incident, the cannibal incident, Wei Yan, etc.
If he could maintain supply lines and not have disease wiping out his army
That's a big if, my man was blinded by his previous victories
An empire goes up in flames. Choose your character:
The traditionalists who call themselves after the empire and insist that everything must stay the same.
The folks calling for a change and a better run state in the future. One not quite as driven by aristocracy and deciding posts based on what cunt you fell out of.
The folks who acquire borderlands and spend most of the time being the first to actually build anything there, setting stage for their subjects becoming Chinese in the far future.
for twenty years until the emperor is a retarded child and his family all murder each other, and then a bunch of barbarians invade
fuck jin, long united my ass
Back at you, taking too much risk can be outright devastating.
Never said otherwise, but one needs to realize when just hanging back and hoping for the safe play will lead to an eventual defeat. An effective stalemate benefits Wei in the long term, not Shu. That is why they were able to just hang back and wait. For all his faults, Zhuge Liang seemed to at least understand that something decisive needed to be done against Wei and he tried to make it happen.
Even if Wei Yan was succesful, he'd need to actually hold the city.
Yes and taking Chang An would have given Shu so many more resources and an even better defensible position. An actual chance to regroup that would have likely put the 3 kingdoms into a proper full on 3-way stalemate.
Bullshit.
The Sima family having developmental problems in their dna is so funny
I did not care for Warriors Origins
The seethe letter from her guards is great
when just hanging back and hoping for the safe play will lead to an eventual defeat.
To be fair, nothing about what Shu did was "safe".
For all his faults, Zhuge Liang seemed to at least understand that something decisive needed to be done against Wei and he tried to make it happen.
True. The man was actually making gains over Wei.
Yes and taking Chang An would have given Shu so many more resources
If they could hold it.
Quick rundown on 16 kingdoms?
battle of fei river my beloved
DNA is where the karma is. Cao Cao's dynasty failed because he chose his son by the lady Bian to be his heir when the Bian family was carrying the genes for early death. Same thing then happened with Sima Yi's heirs being the sons of the lady Zhang. Eastern Jin was descended not from Sima Shi or Sima Zhao but from their half-brother (and that's not even getting into the apparently popular believe that Eastern Jin founder Sima Rui wasn't even a biological Sima but the result of a cuckolding).
read Ravages of Time
Sima clan has always produced lots of sons
brothers shouldn't fight each other
Not until I get a quick rundown on the Northern and Southern Dynasties
(and that's not even getting into the apparently popular believe that Eastern Jin founder Sima Rui wasn't even a biological Sima but the result of a cuckolding).
and cao rui was yuan xi's son
I want a physical release.
Ping ching chong dong nong dong fong.
Is it just me or is Wu really pathetic? they don't do anything and they don't even have the mythical wanking that Shu gets. they just exist to be "the other guy" and the whole country's existence passes like a fart in the wind.
Aah yes, the Wars of Northern Aggression.
behold liu yu, the much improved sequel to liu bei
the whole country's existence passes like a fart in the wind.
why do you think that
They have the coolest armors.
I'm still kind of baffled that Lu Bi believed this, because the math doesn't work out. Yuan Xi was away from the lady Zhen for at least 2 years.
do nothing
continue living
Shu got the shit end of the stick for a reason.
it's just propaganda, they did that all the time
Lu Bi was a Qing dynasty scholar living 1600 years after the time period. I'm pretty sure it was a genuine mistake on his part, not a propaganda argument. There's no evidence for Cao Rui's paternity ever being in doubt in his own time (whereas Sima Rui's paternity seems to have actually been a propaganda piece, if not in his own time, at least in those of his descendants in order to undermine Eastern Jin's claim to continuity with Western Jin).
I'm pretty sure it was a genuine mistake on his part, not a propaganda argument.
I wouldnt be too sure about that, people have been using the three kingdoms era for propaganda, no? Mao did it for one
Personally, I belive the rumours are completely factual, since it makes for a more entertaining story
This will be my final comment on Wei Yan and the Chang An lightning strike.
Firstly, I acknowledge that we have the benefit of hindsight. That being that we know that everything that came after didn't work and therefore it is impossible to not look back and say, well the thing which might have worked would have been better than the thing that definitely didn't work. The other insidious bit of history though is that we may have to acknowledge that Shu was simply screwed by that point. I still stand by my assertion that Yi Ling sealed the deal in favor of Wei, so in many ways, none of it up to that even mattered at that point. It was just a bunch of people throwing their lives away at trying to complete an impossible task.
It wasn't even Yiling, just losing Jing sealed it's fate
The other insidious bit of history though is that we may have to acknowledge that Shu was simply screwed by that point
Most definitely.
The genocide was perpetrated by Manchu generals of the Qing army, supported by Turkic oasis dwellers who rebelled against Dzungar rule.
The Chinks had as much involvement in it as they did in the sacking of Rome by Gauls
Wei was always the higher populated more refined of the three regions. It was always going to be uphill for either Shu or Wu to beat Wei
I knew it. I was always sure the french bastards wouldn't been up to it by themselves.
Well, if he'd won that campaign, things would be very different
he took the risk, he failed, it's over
Wei also had state-mandated wives to further boost their population. Wei truly was a hellish police state and prison for its own population.
Relevant, but I remembered that I have this playlist saved and never got around to watching it. I'll post the link though for others. If anyone has seen it before, feel free to chime in about if it's actually a good telling or not.
youtube.com
because they only existed for like 50 years, and they don't even have the meme magic Shu does that makes people jerk off about how great they were.
Wei also had state-mandated wives
Based. Total incel fix.
Wang Fang
Wang Man
He man
Man Chong
I doubt that was much of a problem considering how they went through soldiers in battles.
>because they only existed for like 50 years
....which makes them the longest lasting of the three kingdoms...
It's only 50 if you use the shortest possible definition of Wu is from Sun Quan claiming Imperial title in 229 to Sun Hao surrendering in 280. Sun Quan was running things for 30 years before he claimed Imperial title, and then there's Sun Ce beginning the whole thing.
Shu was right in attacking Wei. Zhuge Liang's logic was sound in that they needed to be on the offensive or they will surely lose. He had to put pressure in hopes that Wei would destroy itself from the inside by continuous Wu and Shu attacks but it just didn't happen.
If we discuss real history, the lighting attack on Chang'An would have been incredibly risky because 5k soldiers was a lot for the entire Shu army. I have heard conflicting accounts on how Wei was defended there. Some say Cao Rui would definitely be able to hold from reinforcements and others say that it would have been a total defeat to Wei. In any case it would have been super risky.
Best case scenario Wei Yan dabs on Chang'An and captures Cao Rui (if he was garrisoned there) which would lead to many province governors to defect, causing a national crisis that could be sealed with a Wu attack at Hebei (kek lol lmao they would just job).
In Romance it makes way more sense because Shu's army is way bigger. Makes you sort of feel bad for him.
Redpill me about Lu Bu is he really based like how popular media portray him?
SEX WITH LADY ZHEN
One more for the glory of Wu
He caused trouble for all the initial major powers of the warlords period. He was essentially a super powerful troll that defected many times but was too strong to be dealt with until he was dealt with.
280-229 = 51
263-221 = 42
266-220 = 46
He's a bastard of three parents.
Wei Yan asked for 10k.
It's unsure how the timing would work with respect to Cao Rui going west, as Cao Rui would BE the reinforcements that Wei Yan said he would capture the city before they could arrive. If Cao Rui was already at Chang'an, then Wei Yan's plan would already have failed.
Fatuous lord! Fatuous lord! You are a fatuous lord!
He wasn't some unstoppable warrior, but he did have a recorded duel that he won (against Guo Si of all people) which was pretty rare. The story of him shooting a halberd from far away is from the histories too
So did my beloved Pang De.
He wasn't some unstoppable warrior
He did have this reputation in his own time, we just don't have any extant record of the specifics of as to how he got this reputation (minus maybe the halberd shooting story), just the summary that he had his reputation, particularly from the period of time he was working with Yuan Shao fighting the Heishan bandit groups.
Yuan Shao's fuck ups sound too dumb to be true but they are.
the best example is guan yu, we know jack shit about his military successes, only his final defeat. he had to have been successful because the histories do mention him being feared. it makes him look like a fraud
Me? I like Yuan Shu. The TRUE Emperor.
Yuan shu deserves a comedic biopic
I think I finally found the block button for him because I don't see his posts anymore.
One more for the glory of Wu
There's no way to know what the real Lu Bu was like.
But his portrayal is surprisingly nuanced. On one hand he was a cunt who betrayed everyone he served.
On the other he stayed true to himself. He's also the greatest warrior of his time and everyone else can't help but admire him for it.
The only feats we have from Guan Yu are his personal kill of Yan Liang in battle and his initial success at Fancheng. The rest is all made up.
Even Cao Cao suffers from this to a degree, where his reputation as a brilliant military strategist is mostly built off his initial rise from minor player to major player around 190-193 that is just summarized as him going from victory to victory. I think the issue is that a lot of the initial reputation building occurred during the period of most chaos of about 190-200, which, due to being the period of most chaos, naturally had fewer written material to end up in archives for Chen Shou and the rest to work from.
his personal kill of Yan Liang in battle
That's very, very badass, though.
I don't remember him saying this
Honestly it is. He got a marquis title for it because this caused Yuan Shao's army to stop the siege.
so what about the new dynasty warrior game
Went to shit after it stopped being about his autism in making Aiko succeed and started focusing on the shitty rapper
Ha, even with shortest possible definition, Wu is still the longest lasting
Fuck three kingdoms, can I get a new Liu Bang game please
that one rotk game where cao cao steals diaochan who is liu bei's girlfriend
Wu's fall was even more pathetic than Shu's desu. It's not even after a succesor thing, Sun Quan himself started making bizarre decisions that baffled everyone.
We all agree Zhang Liao was based right?
doesn't even cuck him because he views Diao Chan as a mother figure.
great victories
cool hat
yeah
Cao Cao saw Diao Chan as a mother
has red coloured troops
He reincarnated as Char Aznable?
Wu here, Wei niggers are small dick pussies
does that mean Liu Bei is Amuro?
Does this also mean that this is chinese gundam where amuro and char are brothers?
Gao Shun was better
"I will help Cao Cao gather power, subvert the Han, disobey the Emperor, and punish Han loyalists"
"NO CAO CAO YOU CANT GIVE YOURSELF THAT TITLE ITS TOO FAR WHAT ABOUT LOYALTY TO THE HANNNNNN REEEEEEEEEE"
Why was he such a moron
He lacked better options.
The whole "victors write history" shit is weird because most of the time the "losers" aren't wiped out. It just doesn't fit most of history. The people writing shit down aren't just the constantly monitored state employed historians of the countries that won wars.
He was covering his bases. Old man who is about to die anyway makes sure he goes down in history as loyal to the Han even though his life work was about dismantling it.
Anyone looking forward to the upcoming AOE2 3 Kingdoms expansion? Each kingdom's becoming its own civ and there's likely gonna be a whole ass campaign around them.
Unless you're a smart nigga like Sima Qian someone's going to find it out and burn it along with your entire lineage.
*awards myself the Nine Bestowments*
....another grorious city of china was eaten by hungry armies of chinese cannibals I mean warriors
What other cannibalism stories are in the three kingdoms? I know the Liu Bei story but nothing else.
Also his family and clan got to continue enjoying the fruits of his labor, continuing to hold positions of power and influence in the Wei regime, and even into Jin. One of Xun Yu's own sons wrote an essay calling out his father on this, much to the anger of his brothers.
why do people care so much about chingchongs murdering each other?
Xun Yu best girl
because it's one of the coolest stories ever made with the coolest people ever made and people still argue about the decisions those people made 1800 years later.
Zang Hong's army infamously resorted to cannibalism when they were starved by Yuan Shao's siege.
There's a slanderous story accusing Cheng Yu of resorting to cannibalism to feed Cao Cao's army, though there are reasons to doubt the accusation.
Kong Rong published an essay arguing that cannibalism to avoid death by starvation was morally permissible, which sparked some pretty heated arguments at the time.
chicken rib
What did he mean by this?
Can you imagine the teeny tiny chickens they had in those days?
What's the go to translation for Romance of the Three Kingdoms?
Also, what about Heike Monogatari?
Because Dynasty Warriors is a good game.
Bros, my lord is telling me to take a bunch of men to go find some mythical place called Atlantis, what do I do? I worry I might executed if I can't find it...
oh yeah now I remember the Cheng Yu story. It was during the Cao Cao campaign against Yuan Shu I think.
Kong Rong
surprising actually.
What's the ratio of westerners with an autistic obsession of ancient china to orientals who grew up with this in these kind of threads?
A chicken rib does not have much meat on it, so to gnaw it is to expend effort for little gain. But to simply throw it away is also a pity. It means that the Duke of Wei has decided to withdraw rather than continue south to attack Liu Bei like Liu Ye has advised.
(I am using the Hou Han shu version of the story, which states the anecdote actually occurred during Cao Cao's campaign against Zhang Lu in 215, not against Liu Bei in 219.)
Free colonial expedition army lad!
Kong Rong published an essay arguing that cannibalism to avoid death by starvation was morally permissible, which sparked some pretty heated arguments at the time.
based debatelord
Kong Rong sort of gets mythologized as a traditionalist due to being Cao Cao's political enemy, but the actual history records say that he was something of a maverick in his writings. Supposedly he once wrote an essay saying that filial piety was nonsense, which was later used as evidence against him to get him executed (hint: every Han Emperor except the two founders has "filial" in their official posthumous name). It's hard to say how much of it was genuine belief and how much of it was being intentionally provocative though, as Kong Rong kind of had a reputation for that.
Will Wei have their historical yellow color.
I will never forgive this nigger for losing Jing province out of vanity and dooming Shu.
What, weren't they doing 3 expansions focused entirely around the greek-persian wars?
I'm not into a lot of chinese things, i just like 3 kingdoms because i like grand stories about war and politics.
2010 version missed this small but crucial detail.
How did his horse do that??
, i just like 3 kingdoms because i like grand stories about war and politics
this was me a few years ago but eventually i got so deep into the rabbit hole i started reading the confucian classics and learning about ancient china
Because it's not well known internationally and people are terribly ignorant.
Out of the four greats:
ROTK
Most well known, most entertaining.
Journey to the West
Uhhh funny monkey and a lot of Buddhist shit?
Water Margin
Suikoden for those who know it, otherwise literally what?
Red Chamber
Literally what?
Durrhhh isn't Art of War a classic??
Of eras:
Earlier
Fengshen Yanyi evil king gets rekt wow so boring
Qin Dynasty
Hero with Jet Li, and Qin = China cool
Han Dynasty
ROTK
Sui/Tang Dynasty
Oh that battle where they ate each other??
Yuan Dynasty
Oh Mongols in charge
Ming Dynasty
Uhhhhh
Qing Dynasty
That civil war where some dude claimed he's Jesus' bro, and Century of BTFO
Modern
Commie Chinks LOL
Ming dynasty is where they had every imperial family member get paid upkeep until 150 years later they noticed most of the state income went into that shit.
That civil war where some dude claimed he's Jesus' bro
Is there any media based on this? It seems so insane that it frankly sounds fake, but the guy's life seems pretty well documented.
What is even the context as to why it was so big? If it was just mass discontent at the time wouldn't it have made more sense some pretender emperor or governor would have done that shit?
western sources overrate the Christian aspect of the rebellion compared to it just being a nationalist uprising with millenarian religious aspects
Studied IR thus includes World History and philosphy, played DW during PS2 days, and am a weeb thus would have to learn about Chinese culture and language anyway.
Modern
Commie Chinks LOL
In a way Wuxia is that because Jin Yong wasn't shy about putting analogues of CCP figures in his novels. Most well known is Dongfangbubai = Madam Mao
昔孔文舉有言:三人同行,兩人聰雋,一夫底下,饑年無食,謂宜食底下者,譬猶蒸一猩猩,煮一鸚鵡耳。此蓋悖道之言也,寧有是乎!
In the past Kong Rong once said: "Three people are walking together, two people are intelligent, one is inferior, in a famine year they have nothing to eat, and say they should eat the inferior one, it is only like cooking an orangutan or cooking a parrot." This probably was provocative speech, how could it be genuine?
又前與白衣禰衡跌蕩於言,云『父之於子,當有何親?論其本意,實為情欲發耳。子之於母,亦復奚為?譬如寄物缻中,出則離矣』。
Also [Kong Rong] formerly with commoner Ni Heng casually spoke, and said: "Fathers and children have what kinship? Considering the original intention, truly it was only a desire for release. Children and mothers also have what connections? As an analogy it is like something put inside a bottle: it comes out and then is separate."
Mao was literally modern Cao Cao
Cao Cao didn't starve 30 millions of his own people to death because muh ideology, he was a pragmatic person.
4 TV shows
which one's worth a watch?
He really wasn't. The Cao family was already wealthy with power and influence in the Han central government by Cao Cao's time. Mao's family may have been relatively wealthy for a peasant family, but wasn't involved in government and had no power outside maybe its local neighborhood. Mao's way closer to Liu Bang.
he was a pragmatic person.
Hahaha, dude caused China to be stuck in a perpetual revolution even after they won until people in government went "repeating the same mistake knowing a different outcome won't occur is probably a bad idea to keep repeating."
Was this story mode really needed?
I meant Cao Cao was pragmatic, whatever works he'll pick that.
hypothetical for jin has sima shi continue to be ruler
hypothetical for wu has sima quan as ruler even though sun jian and sun ce are alive
it annoys me
Mao was more Qin Shi Huang. They laid the foundations of china and laid out crazy projects like the GFL and great wall of china.
Most chinese were glad for both of their deaths and the repealing of Mao/Qin era rules, but both recognize their role in creating the chinese state.
Qin Shi Huang was the descendant of a long line of Kings of Qin. Completely different situation.
This actually reinforces the comparison to Liu Bang, actually. Liu Bang followed a lot of the original Qin standards for continuity reasons, with most of the reform to distinguish Han from Qin only beginning from Liu Bang's son Liu Heng onward.
Officer ... defeat
Wei Yan was best boy. Personal favorite.
Japan
Everyone*
No one likes actual Chinese.
Cao cao was definitely the type of guy to launch the hundred flowers campaign to oust traitors
reminder that the green red blue colors werent historical
Also the "esteemed colors" thing is only for Court rituals. It just means certain banners, flags, and uniforms are going to focus on that color for specific ceremonies. It doesn't mean common soldiers are going to be running around in all yellow or anything.
It gives us Zhang Chunhua so for me yes
"Disgusting old hag, why come out to bother me?"
The somewhat recent Penguin Classics one by Royall Tyler is a good pick for the Tale of the Heike I feel.
"Shut the fuck up and put your cage back on"
For me its the classic 3K games
youtube.com
Liu became Emperor when he was sixteen years old. His most favorite concubine was one young Persian girl with a voluptuous behind he called Mèi Zhū
The historical text Spring and Autumn Annals of the Ten Kingdoms recorded that Liu Chang indulged in sex games. One of his games was called "Naked in Twos" (大體雙) in which he paired young men with palace women, made them strip naked and have sex together while he and his Persian lover were carried around to watch them.[7] Liu and Mei Zhu then decided whether the man or woman "won". If the man "defeated" the woman, both were rewarded, but if the woman won and defeated the man, Liu had the man castrated.
Liu had sex all day and night and his body was physically unable to bear it, so he started to learn Jianyang techniques (健阳法) to reinvigorate his "yang" male energy (Jianyang involves increasing sexual desire and delaying ejaculation and orgasm)
Liu Chang spent all his time in the harem of Persian women, that he never came out to handle governance work, leaving it to Kong Chengshu and the eunuchs to take over government business.
worst faction
best girl
really makes you think
If only he lived on...
same way many people believe the illiad and odyssey was real.
government is government and people are people.simple as.
If the man "defeated" the woman, both were rewarded, but if the woman won and defeated the man, Liu had the man castrated.
Nigga that's nuts
both of these have have
lots of characters
ways of doing things different from one another showing philosophies and way of life
both are intriguing
It's that simple
glorified bandit desu
But enough about Liu Bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei
every masterpiece has it's cheap copy.
FUCK YOU DONG ZHUO IS THE ONLY TRUE RULER OF 中国
YOU FUCKING RETARDS RUINED 中国
I can't get over zhuge nazeem
do you get to luoyang very often?
I love chinese history. Korea/Japanese history always felt like a toned down version of it.
japan is uk of east.they were basically isolated and fought against each other until they met russians before or after world war 1.
funny how japanese and korean history look like a chinese knockoff of chinese history kek
Sunshianxiang best girl
I mean the Sengoku Jidai was basically china's warring states period.
he still hasn't realized that the emperor of Japan was an ancient chinese alchemist and exile who trolled the original japanese who lived in the ground like hobbits before being elevated to sentience by the Chinese
Chinese influence was such that the Japanese and Koreans intentionally re-used Chinese names and terms for their periods. "Sengoku Jidai" is literally "Zhanguo Shidai," the exact same words.
Kinda like everyone tried to become the next Rome.
she isn't real
Chinese were technologically and economically very advanced for the era, they could afford it.
Not to mention Cao Cao uplifted both aspects of it with great law changes and supporting whatever technological invention or improvement that was happening at the time to reach mass use.
It could be argued that she's more "real" than Sun Quan's sister.
I'm still mad how boring the Three Kingdoms aspects of Wo Long were
Lu Bu was a cool dude though
everyone just willfully tries to ignore it because it's boring and no one actually cares about real history.
The real history unironically is cooler and more batshit insane apart from Shu.
I agree, it felt like very generic Wuxia "evil old man cultivator vs young naive good looking people" plot but with 3K names stapled in. There was also the whole Zhuge Liang quote unquote plot twist. I wonder if they figured they'd get a sequel and so just focused on setting stuff up in Fallen Dynasty.
Dear Chinamen ITT
Jumping off of I'd like to know what the overall honest opinion of the British occupation of China generally is; in part because I'm aware the jeets think we owe them something like 50trillion pounds (calculated with impossible-bullshit rates of infinite compound interest) and the nogs want eternal repurashuns, and I'd just like to be aware if the Chinese subcontinent are chill or hate us with every fiber of their being and are yet another problem we're going to have to deal with when we get our shit together again and kick the burgers to the curb. We did kinda do a number on you lads with the whole Opium War bantz, so I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm just checking nonetheless.
I know the Japs aren't looked upon all too kindly in relations, I'm just hoping you hate them more than you hate us really.
Many thanks and may a jade-like beauty come into your life
Zhuge Liang's twist was gay but his fight was really cool
They were mindbroken so hard by it they invented a special historiographic term for it.
en.wikipedia.org
It's not so much focused on Britain specifically as on every other country, because every great power participated in it back then.
It's a huge deal in modern Chinese thought.
They don't view the Brits with much animosity, not even concerning HK because they knew GB made HK prosperous.
They mostly blame themselves for being such weak fucks (Sick Man of Asia, century of humiliation) during those years instead of pushing the blame to the foreigners, except Japan who became the designated boogieman by the CCP.
They generally view the Westerners positively (especially the Germans).
i'm pretty sure chinks forgot bongs once bongs gave them back hong kong and macao.
they only consider mutts as a threat.geopolitical problems are common even within western world.
It's a huge deal in modern Chinese thought.
what isn't? half the time they get real pissy like nogs
They generally view the Westerners positively (especially the Germans).
Because of that guy that tried to save a lot of people from Nanking?
if you include chinks,jeets,irish and any other civilization u invaded or humiliated .who do you think hate you the most?rank them.
or the other guy that invented communism.
Marx is a country hopping jew (like all of them) they don't belong to any country beyond isreal and america
Post-WWI Germany had a close relationship with the ROC. The ROC army was even German trained. This ended in WWII when Hitler decided to back Japan over China.
Yes, that insecurity stems from being the preeminent power and center of the world for all their recorded history, then getting suddenly dickslapped by the entire world for 100 years. Anything that is seen as an attack on China triggers that historic anxiety of foreign exploitation.
Consider it the reverse of European countries, who lost their continental empire early on and never reformed it, and so view moral failings and attacks from within as the major threat and foreign influence as something fashionable to be enjoyed.
both marx and Friedrich Engels are german born tho.
So are a lot of illegals
if only hitler was able to find a way to make ROC and japan join together and attack soviets from east when germany fought them from west.history would be so different. SHAME!
I see...
Well, we're currently having somewhat of our own "Century of Humiliation" in having to deal with the mutts standing on our face after the whole WW2 rebuild (shan't be happening again any time soon once it all hits the fan and we can finally do something about it), so hopefully we can shake hands on it and sweep the whole thing under the rug; maybe do some joint exercises into India to "deal with a shared problem" together.
Good day to you all, and may your current commie dynasty be fatuous and graceful and all that.
Irish and it's not even close; they've rewritten sects of their own history just to try to get a one-up on us (see the Tribal Mythology). Which is ironic, because they're the ones we give the least of a fuck about, since we just consider them British whether they like it or not and most of the people who fucked them over are the same upper-class Londonite aristocrats that fucked the rest of us over (they also genuinely refuse to call the British Archipelago 'Britain' because the large island / most of the UK is nicknamed 'Great Britain' instead of Albion these days, so they just call it "these isles" instead, because they really don't want to be called British).
Really wish we could patch it up with them, but no doubt they'll figure out a way to make a car bomb out of it.
Early ROC was even very pro-Japan before the whole Japanese demands and Japanese invasion thing.