Why are people calling this a "turn-based" RPG?

if you do nothing in ATB gameplay you get destroyed
if you do nothing in turn based gameplay nothing happens
ATB is not turn-based no matter the amount of brain gymnastics

If you are really that impaired you could try dodging instead the timing is way easier, play the game on ez or spec defensively, you have options, not like other "rpg" games
don't be a little bitch

because "turn based" is an established pithy buzzword, and "menu selection input" isn't.

You are the artist who refuses to embrace AI.

Invalidated your entire post with that one, saar.

The turns serve a purpose though. The game isn’t just about dealing damage and parrying, theres plenty of rpg mechanics, resources, buffs/debuffs, etc that make the turn order matter. Have you not seen what Monoco does?
It reallly does feel like you’re just baiting the way you write this stuff so I don’t think there can be any sort of constructive conversation to be had with the likes of you.

That would be simultaneous turn resolution, which I can't immediately think of any examples in video games but does have a fringe presence in tabletop. ATB is menu-based realtime.

Keep coping. Reject the future, and time will simply pass you by and leave you behind.

Paper Mario isn't Turn-based

you are retarded and a thread died for this

It's not a traditional turn-based RPG

super mario rpg came out in 1996 you fucking clown what the fuck are you on about
and it is not the only game to have a timed button system, just the most prominent example
and that's if you're just counting timed hits without any obfuscation, a game like shadow hearts still has fucking timed hits it just has the judgement wheel layered over it to make it more interesting or seem different
dozens of games do this where the underlying system is the same and they just build on it or alter it slightly

there is no other way to play the game.

because the devs are dogshit at balance and design, for all the good they did they colossally failed on this beyond belief.
You cannot add a system in a game that invalidates any of your stats let alone two of them at once, because now all you've done is funnel people into playing the same way. Should I level defense? Vitality? Hell no is what every single player is going to think, because you can just spam retry and eventually learn the parry timings - which is what they'll do.
I saw a streamer earlier struggling with an attack, party wiped to it 3+ times, specifically that attack. He refused to try to dodge, because even though he didn't need the extra damage the entire game has funnelled everyone into parrying regardless, so he just kept throwing himself at the wall until he landed the parries and won.
It also invalidates a bunch of buffs, because defensive buffs now have no purpose whatsoever.

Just genuinely terrible design all around, parry should give you some dr but still take damage, or require you to have more hp than the attack hits for that you take in grey life or something to justify half the stats and a bunch of skills in the game that now have no purpose and offer no strategy choices. Game would be genuinely pretty decent for the most part if not for this just glaringly obvious design catastrophe

In Mario RPGs if you don't execute button prompts very well, you just take slightly more damage or deal slightly less.

In Clair Obscur, if you can't dodge/parry well, you completely fail at the game and won't be able to beat it.

The flipside of that is that if you DO dodge/parry perfectly, the game becomes trivial and basically nothing else matters.

Mario is for 5 years old

Not an argument.

I mean, I kind of agree but you're going way too far with this. This is the equivalent of saying leveling Vitality in Souls games is useless because you can just dodge every attack. Do Souls games also encourage players to ignore any sustain-related stat/strategies because they have a dedicated button for negating all damage that's available (effectively) free of cost? I have been leveling Sciel to take some hits and it is extremely noticeable compared to my Maelle who will die in one hit regardless of anything. If the player wants to maqke their party's tanky so that they can fail their timings more often, they can.
The only real sin that the game commits within this design paradigm is giving players access to 2 readily available suicide strats with insane upsides and synergies. This kind of concept exists in most games, but making suicide strats extremely accessible for 2/5 party members effectively off the bat is a bit too much.

I actually really like that they have heaven-or-hell strats built in.

the (basically) auto-win-mcfucking-kill-yourself builds don't really come online until endgame anyway

I do love that they're there, I just think you get access to them a bit too soon. Verso deleting everything with 29k Berserk Slashes on turn 2 is available within the first dungeon you unlock him. You have to work a bit harder for Maelle's but it's still quite easy.

you just take slightly more damage or deal slightly less.

this is literally, objectively, better system design as i just outlined than what these frenchies did

parrying in souls games is substantially harder and less forgiving than this game, not least of all because it has actual movement and angles that matter, the game doesn't just stop and let you watch the animation to time the relatively easy parry window like this does. you are going to get hit in a souls game, and your recovery is limited between bonfires so those hits are going to add up. in this game, it's perfectly feasible if not outright designed that you don't get hit, and you have infinite recovery, no mp system means there's no such thing as attrition we've already established this in dozens of other rpgs that tried to remove limitations and resources on things and the results are pretty conclusive.

If the player wants to make their party's tanky so that they can fail their timings more often, they can.

Sure, they can, but they're not going to is my point. Literally almost every person you speak to is going to play this game the same way, pump the same stats, engage the same style, all without looking any guide up or consulting with one another, because this is what the game design encourages you to do, and there's 0% chance their testers didn't inform them of this. Hell there should be 0% chance they didn't immediately comprehend this would be the result the minute they floated the idea of parrying/dodging like this.
And bearing all that in mind, that every facet of the systems designs pushes you one way, what do you think the damage expectation and hp values are going to be balanced around?
There cannot be a purely upside for parrying when it's fairly easy. Either it has to be EXTREMELY difficult, so that you will give up trying to parry half the attacks in the game and thus have to take damage sometimes, or it has to have conditions

reasonable, I went down the party buff/Judgement Nut End trees because I didn't trust myself to nail the dodges/parries every time

So what genre am I playing if it's not what it is that I'm playing?
You seem to have the answers that we all don't know about.

..Wait.

it is more like Dark Souls with-

Haha, ok. Stop wasting board space faggot.

the parry timing is actually pretty tight, and enemies were deliberately designed to fake you out, complete with some enemies not even having the "you are about to get hit" audio cue, AND E33 uses a similar bonfire/estus system. It's FEASIBLE to no-hit every fight, but nowhere near likely, just like with Souls games.

devs should return to coining a new nonsense name for their new combat systems
Real Action Period eXcel
Active Battle System
Response and Reaction Waltz

It's not turn based!

I guess we can finally agree legend of dragoon and shadow hearts are ARPGs.

JE SUIS BATAILLE

turn-niggers complaining about a turn-based game because it actually requires some real-time input from the player.

These fuckers literally complain about anything more difficult than Pokemon. kek

We know you're Indian, you didn't need to tell us that by polluting the thread with your dialect.

ATB is turn based with the addition of a time bar based on speed that determines when you get to take your turn. Also, enemy time bars keep filling up while you're thinking about what to do so if you don't pick your commands fast enough, they'll get extra turns on you.

brain damaged idiots whining about any real time inputs at all

The parry timings aren't tight at all, you sound like you're talking about parrying blind first time which is the only place fake outs work. Again in a souls boss, you can't just hit reload and stand there to parry the same attack again and again, it's much harder to learn. In this you can just die, hit retry, and do it over and over until you learn the parry timing, and I'm telling you this is what people -will- and -are- doing, it is the natural conclusion of the systems design.
That mime hammer fucking you costs you no real time or anything, you can just keep throwing your face at it until you get comfortable with the timing. Idk what to tell you if you genuinely think otherwise and that this is not what people will gravitate towards doing based on the systems at play. Unless the game starts throwing literal 1 frame parry windows at you later on, this isn't going to substantially change

Why should there be real-time inputs in a TURN-BASED game?

What's the point of astroturfing the entire internet about how this game is "LE REVIVAL OF TURN-BASED JRPGS" when it's so substantially different to traditional turn-based games?

There is no retry button, you get hucked back to a save point if you die.

Have you even played the game?

I wasn't referring to parrying in Souls games, I was referring to rolling. You still take damage from parrying in Souls games (usually), and you can't even parry every attack, let alone every boss.
As to the rest of your first paragraph, I'm a bit confused. You're talking about attrition related to bonfires, but that effectively stopped existing after the first Dark Souls, and only existed for Dark Souls anyway. The Estus limitation really only applies to boss fights, and this game shares that same limitation in regards to boss fights.

but they're not going to is my point

I don't see how this is the game's fault. You had months of memes of making fun of people in Elden Ring for not leveling Vigor before people realized it was useful to not die. I'm not blaming Elden Ring for people being too dumb to think that they can roll through every single attack the game throws at them. I'm also not blaming this game for people being too stubborn to invest in defense so they can fuck up some dodges during fights.
Like, again, I hear your point here because I think providing players with suicide strats right away is a bit of a mistake that does lean into this, but you're not even citing the suicide strats as an example. And for what it's worth, I don't think most players are going to use the suicide strats just because suicide strats tend to go unused in most games.

what do you think the damage expectation and hp values are going to be balanced around?

I can tell you that the game certainly isn't balanced around the damage from suicide strats lol

Because 7Rfags began a shitposting campaign against this game months ago because "turn based games are shit, flop flop flop"

Now that the game is a hit the goalposts are shifting to "it's not even turn based" and "actually it wasn't made by 30 people it was made by 3000 people and with billions of dollars from microsoft"
They can't just accept a turn based game is popular.

Just Press Button Good

imagine saying this when complaining about videogames. jesus christ just go play chess or do a crossword or something.

I don't care what imaginary Final Fantasy schizos were doing 5 months ago or whatever. I wasn't in these threads.

I care more about the current wave of schizos who are shitting up the board claiming that this game is "better than Persona, Metaphor and Dragon Quest combined" when it isn't even anything like those games.

Why should there be real-time inputs in a TURN-BASED game?

To make it less boring, mundane and repetitive.

when it isn't even anything like those games.

Yes, unlike those snoozefests, E33 is actually good. Major difference.

There are no real-time inputs in this webm, retard.

It's a turn-based RPG in the Japanese style, of course it's going to attract comparisons to other popular examples of the genre.

imaginary

Heh
Something makes me think you do care a little

This was the logical evolution of Souls combat, literally just make it turn-based and have you press a single button at the right moment

I believe that's the point he is making

So YGO isn't a turn based game because you can activate card effects during your opponent's turn.

Is a rhythm minigame all that it takes for a game to not be considered turn based?

Why should I care about your opinion on JRPGs when you're clearly a tourist who doesn't even play them?

Pokemon

claiming that this game is "better than Persona, Metaphor and Dragon Quest

Thank you for not including final fantasy in this list. We both agree this game is better than final fantasy.

Funny how normally Anon Babble HATES when games are changed to appeal to the "modern audience", but suddenly when it's turn-based JRPGs everybody is like:

of course it should be changed! those gay weeb RPGs are too boring! we need to put more action in them so normalfags who play elden ring and skyrim can like it!

Yes, this game is better than Final Fantasy. But I don't understand schizos claiming this game is better than Persona, Metaphor or Dragon Quest.

Because my opinion is objectively correct. If you were smart, you'd be listening to me and playing E33 instead of complaining here.

I would've put it in but if I did it would've triggered your schizo instincts and made you start posting crying Cloud memes again.

I was hoping for a massive success instead of a moderate one to push Square out from their asses and finally make a main line turned based game than another Devil May Cry bootleg.

I never hated quick time events as much as people used to but it is humorous to see them passed off as if they are game changers now. Like super Mario rpg.

Dragon Quest 12 is going to drop anyday now

I think people would've been more than fine with Final Fantasy games "modernizing" into something similar to E33 rather than pure action games

He's a Final Fantasy schizo. He'd rather schizo post than play videogames. If Final Fantasy fans played anything other than FF they'd realise how shit their favourite series is. They can't risk it. So they just insult every other game without playing it.

take turns with the enemy doing various actions

"actually no those aren't turns because you can parry"

The fuck? Are you retarded?

They're claiming that because it's true. It especially makes the hype around Metaphor look downright embarrassing.

He's a Final Fantasy schizo.

You really can't imagine that someone can disagree with you without being a boogeyman you invented in your head?
For the record I prefer Atlus games over Final Fantasy.

It's not true. The people who hyped Metaphor and the people who hyped this game are completely different.

Metaphor appealed to actual JRPG fans. Expedition 33 appeals to the same kind of normoids who went crazy over Baldur's Gate, Elden Ring and Black Myth Wukong.

You didn't disagree with me about anything. I just know when someone sees others enjoying E33 and get mad about it that they're a Final Fantasy fan.
I have yet to be proven wrong.

based

Not gonna lie, I dropped Metaphor like 12 hours in. I'm already 20+ into this game after only getting it on Thursday. This game blows Metaphor out of the water. More engaging combat that isn't just SMT5's but worse, significantly better writing, better production values, better OST, and a more interesting world to explore.
And Persona 5 was just generally bad, so it's definitely better than that game too.

what is the wit option

So lost odyssey isn't a JRPG? Fuck off normalfag. They have a turn off QTE for dimwits with the reaction time of a grandma for yourself regardless.

Frankly I don't think E33 was intended to have mass appeal. Outside of the voice cast having nerd appeal, there's a lot about it that by all rights should turn people off

turn-based but also real-time inputs creates a "who is this for" dilemma

story is generally pretty esoteric, and doesn't hold your hand at all

not terribly heavily tutorialized

aggressively French

it's literally just Mario & Luigi

Metaphor was GOTY for me last year and expedition 33 is GOTY this year. KYS

You don't actually like JRPGs. You are a tourist.

Looking cringe, Joker.

wow, the 7Rfag is mad

each character takes a turn

"what are people calling it turn based"

you just get completely wrecked, there is no other way to play the game.

You're either early game or not stacking points into defense or vitality. Or your most likely just lying and never played which probably the most likely answer

It's not turn-based

The game has a turn counter on the left at all times

Must suck being retarded and not being able to play GOTY.

It's a good thing that developers don't see who is a "real" or "fake" fan when it comes to this - just pure, raw $$$.

Metaphor was massively overpraised for being a mildly competent JRPG with an ultimately milquetoast "political" story on the heels of Final Fantasy publicly shitting itself to death. E33 is outright the better game in all aspects.

Friend, just because I find Metaphor disgustingly bloated/time-wastey with atrocious writing doesn't mean I hate JRPGs. Unless the definition of a JRPG is a game that is too long that has shit writing, in which case, yeah the genre fucking sucks, and I'm glad the Japanese-origin turn based combat games that I like don't fall into it.

Do you consider Metroid Prime to be a first person shooter?

It's first person and you shoot things right? Must be an FPS then. It's the exact same kind of game as Halo and Call of Duty!

Things change meaning with time, you niggers here don't use normie anymore because it got too reddit for your tastes
Same thing with JRPGs, it's a genre. Games don't need to be made in Japan to be considered a JRPG.

Friend, just because I find Metaphor disgustingly bloated/time-wastey with atrocious writing doesn't mean I hate JRPGs.

So name me 10 that you like.
HARD MODE: Don't name any more shitty foreign games masquerading as JRPGs like E33. Only Japanese games.

Why can't you absolute retarded faggots just play video games and enjoy them without shitting on everyone else while doing so
God I wish Anon Babble had stayed dead for longer

Most JRPGs are just based on old CRPGs anyway. Japs didn't create the genre.

goes on message board

sees messages

cries

Epic

Waiting for turns

That's what they changed Sqauretard. Normies got bored waiting for the enemies to take their turn so they gave them something to do while it's happening.

Etrian Odyssey 5
Etrian Odyssey 4
The Dark Spire
Radiata Stories
Star Ocean 3
SaGa Emerald Beyond
SaGa Scarlet Grace
Lost Odyssey
Enchanted Arms
Resonance of Fate

zoomers cant sit still for 2 seconds so they NEED to add parry,dodge and quick time events to every attack.

Theres been a lot of jrpgs with combat like this in the past like mario rpg and shadow farts. heck even ar tonelico 2 had timed blocks, it's really nothing new for the genre.

Same thing with JRPGs, it's a genre. Games don't need to be made in Japan to be considered a JRPG.

Maybe, but at the very least those games need to take meaningful influence from JRPGs to be considered one.

The devs of E33 lying in interviews that they were influenced by Persona and FFX doesn't mean shit when the actual game they made is just turn-based Dark Souls/Sekiro.

Name me JRPGs

But only the ones I consider JRPGs so I can call you a retard later

Retard

yes, but those old games did it wrong.
E33 finally figured out how to do timed hits/dodge/parry right and make it fun. It only took 3 decades, but it finally happened.

and it's still making a mockery of modern FF. beautiful.

Of games that I've played within the last 2 years:
Atelier Lydie & Suelle, SaGa Scarlet Grace, SMTVV, Dungeon Travelers 2, and Elin.
If you go back a couple years, you'll find more Atelier games, most EO games, and some other shit that I'm forgetting. I'm also not counting any of the FFs, Souls games, Team Ninja games, or other shit like that so as to not trigger your autism.

Romancing SaGa 2
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy VI
Golden Sun+Golden Sun The Lost Age (I will do you the favor of not counting these separately)
The Last Remnant
Radiant Historia
Lost Odyssey
Breath of Fire IV
Chrono Trigger
Shin Megami Tensei 3

Frogs copy from the Japs and always did better.

Just look at how Ubisoft copied MGS and made the cast and gameplay more bearable to play than Kojima could ever do. Same thing is happening with gooks humiliating the Japs with their own soulsslop. Frogs have more soul than gooks and we'll get more turned based KINO from now on.

What are the best skills for Monoco? Having a hard time building him.

Should I have 2 balance, 2 heavy, 1 caster and 1 agile?

Muh lies, it's not really Persona or FFX

Dungeon and map design is straight out of FFX, one main path with multiple branches. The freaking battle UI is straight up persona, as is the break system, it just takes more than one hit to break the enemy.

You're just bitching that it isn't what you're used to and you suck at it.

You can definitely see the Persona and FFX influence, if you actually play the game

Dungeon and map design is straight out of FFX, one main path with multiple branches. The freaking battle UI is straight up persona

Cool, so not the actual gameplay then.

I don't really care much about the fr*nch game but I saw people talking about jrpgs and I'm only here to say that Metaphor fucking sucked. That is all.

Gosh it's almost like there are a lot of pieces that make up a video game and they can all be influenced by other things
also

level design

not gameplay

Reminds me of when people would say FE3H was literally Persona because it had a calendar. No mention that the calendar itself was pointless and didn't actually include any interaction with days of the week.