Is it ok to commit genocide as long as you’re depressed?

Is it ok to commit genocide as long as you’re depressed?

No idea but the absolute seething glare that Lune gives off when Verso gets inside the portal is fucking hilarious.

You just don't get it, Anon Babble.

They don't have souls.

Neither do most real people, there's a limited number of souls in circulation.

Do YOU have a soul?

If you're black, you can commit as many genocides you want and libtards would still treat you like a poor puppy.

I don't want this life...
I don't want this life...
I don't want this life...
Help me...
Help me...

Why didn’t Verso just ropemax, is he stupid?

Child Verso straight up tells you they do have real feelings and souls.

Stop posting spoilers in the OP faggot. I already beat the game but if i didn't i would be mad

Because he can't kill himself unless the whole painting world goes down.

he did, he suicided by Maelle and she brought him back.
because she's an addict

What does he say exactly?

Fascinating how much you people changed your tune since the gommage scene. Suddenly, the first 10 hours where you played as Gustave don’t matter to you anymore

They call me Cuban Pete. I'm the king of the rumba beat.
When I play the maracas I go chick-chicky-boom, chick-chicky boom

GOD I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY
I SPENT FIFTY HOURS WAITING FOR THIS ENDING

AND IT'S RETARDED! HOW COULD THEY DO THIS TO ME!! I WAS SO ON BOARD!

I would never genocide my wife lune!

French

i feel betrayed. i wish i had a wife to vigorously shake and scream at.

i wouldn't be so mad if they didn't fucking sabotage the alicia ending. break their own goddamn rules to push le escapism bad.

they literally made verso forge 'unbreakable bonds' with all the people he then goes on to murder. literally the most subhuman piece of shit protagonist to ever exist and you can TELL the writers think he's right.

Speaking as someone who generally prefers stories that have emotional depth and intensity, I completely fucking agree. They fumbled it and went for the most unoriginal pretentious ending possible. You only get to do this if you have a good idea, an idea that makes sense and isn't contrived.

And this was VERY contrived.

I picked lunes feet

He saw what was his real mom in the real world trippin on paint juice and was like na dog, that ain't right.

This is the type of person who agrees with Verso

NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DECIDE TO SLOWLY KILL YOURSELF ALICIA IT'S WRONG

BUT I'M TIRED AND WANT TO KILL MYSELF SO EVERYONE ELSE IS COMING WITH ME

It already had pretty good stuff: a good setting, an interesting mystery, good characters. When Gustave died I knew it was downhill from there.
This is still a good video game, but it could have been one of the greats, and it is not.

Nah, it is. The story is meh but story is one of the least important things in a vidya. It's not outright bad and that's all that matters.

Does taking the family portrait from The Canvas area before fighting Renoir change anything in the fight?

wanting more humans to be born in that fucked broken dome world

Aline really is the worst for creating humans, that world was meant for gestrals

Versofags are ethically superior and simply have better characters, we are the ones who have the moral fiber to walk away from Omelas, while Maellefags are happy to be complicit with injustice and evil

IMG_5644.png

this is the type of person who agrees with Maelle

It changes everything

I just want to know where the devs are going to from here. If they will continue the story in a direct sequel, a spin-off located in the same universe, or another completely different game unrelated to this one.

The only thing wrong with the world was the nevrons which is Clea's fault. Something's up with Clea, that cunt created so many problems.

Yeah, not them being prisoners inside a dome, just the monsters

Where would it go nigga
The world is not real; the guys basically killed off their IP. I suppose they didn't have a lot of faith in it

They have the mysterious big bad of the "writers" which could be very challenging to tackle lore wise. I'd assume they'd also make it to where it isn't black and white of who is actually evil between the painters and writers if they expanded on it.

The dome is only to protect from nevrons, they can freely leave and go out to the rest of the canvas world.

Were the nevrons even really a problem? It doesn't seem like nevrons actually killed anyone besides expeditioners, and expeditions only happened because of real Renoir Gommaging people. Without the Gommage nevrons wouldn't matter because painted Verso/Renoir set up the shield dome.

Bros, is it ethically superior to erase the entire world and everyone in it because your mom and sister are being neets? Need some help with this one.

Clea is an evil bitch. The whole family is evil.

In the very beginning they talk about the dome protecting Lumiere from nevrons so I assume it was a problem for them at some point.

It's gone

This scene literally doesn't matter lol

Omelas

That whole concept just seems so retarded to me, I have cheap shit simply because someone in China is suffering and because some people (including kids) in Africa are mining lithium. Not even that, we have working society simply because there are people in our countries who are poor enough to have to do the dirty underpaid jobs that no one wants to do.

because your mom and sister are being neets

Obviously, my family is more important. Why Anon Babble of all places won't be able to understand this kind of selfishness?

Let’s think about our options here.
Option A:

Go back to our home world and live a full life with a family who doesn’t love us, meanwhile we are permanently disfigured.

Option B:

Live a significantly shorter life in the painted world, but you are healthy and you managed to revive all the people wrongfully killed by the gommage.

It’s a tough call, innit?

Option C: Make a new canvas without the soul of my dead brother and remake everyone there

Live a significantly shorter life in the painted world

Except Aline was living in the canvas for like 140 years before present day, so it's actually a much longer life in the canvas due to how time passes. Win win. It's only a loss for Renoir and Verso really.

could have a fun jrpg about an Odyssey

choose a french waifu

beat a few secret bosses

save the world

"no!"

Epic, simply epic

fixes your game

there is literally nothing in the game to suggest this happens. nobody brings it up. you are writing fanfiction to justify the writer's idiocy.

You probably can't transfer chroma out of the canvas or into a different canvas (so they would actually be new people when remade).

Although if you could, that opens up a lot of possibilities for sequel stuff.

god the endings to this game are shit

live a full life with a family who doesn’t love us

Did you even play the game? Verso (or someone from the family) even said that Maelle was the favourite child.

Aline can't stand to look at her and Clea is a psychotic bitch who's busy off mass murdering Writers and happily risked Alicia's life so she could get Renoir out solely so he could help with her war. Renoir's the only one who cares about her and her real life is already shortened from lung damage anyway.

Ghost of Tsushima remains the only game in the world to have multiple endings that are both well done

Remake my entire family

Still make Alicia horribly disfigured

Lune and Sciel didn't deserve this after all they've been through

How sociopathic is it to get into a relationship with Lune/Sciel, only to blindside and kill them without blinking?

its almost like they still love their child regardless of how she looks

Aline wanted to punish Alicia for causing the fire.
So she made a punching bag

It was his game. It goes downhill after he's gone.

Sciel

is going to cuck you when she gets her husband back. Totally reasonable

Lune

used you for stress relief and never mentioned it again.
Fucking them over wasn't a factor in starting the Final Gommage, but it can only help

Even if it's the way you said it, it's unironically better family and future than most here have.
Her mother doesn't hate her and will probably get her shit together after year or two, Clea is kind of psychotic but all women are anyway.

game is shaping up to look like you can romance the girls

lol no

they're actually shit

the teenager is a schizo

Thanks, frenchbros

verso is the most sociopathic character to ever receive the full sympathy of the writers. he's an objectively horrifying human being.

He believed they're not real (they aren't)

Romance is for weggers and bad vns

How dare you; it's one of the cornerstones of jrpgs

They are not more real than your anime waifu powered with chatgpt

Verso would give up everything to save his family. That's literally his character.
He gave up his life, and his clone gave up the Lumerians - all for Maelle.

Really the reason for so much death is Maelle.
ALL she had to do was leave the canvas for a few days

dad says you've been playing video games too long and tries to turn off the console

you stab him to death with a knife IRL because if he turns off the console it will kill Super Mario and Yoshi and the Bowser

someone burns a book before you finish reading it

you commit suicide because you're so sad that the characters in the story are gone now

this is the logic of Maelle siders
Make believe characters are NEVER worth the life of a real person. Waiting to hear on the news about one of you retards shooting your mom in the head with a rifle because she tried to turn off your nintendo switch

why not? this seems like a totally arbitrary designation. they have lives, free will, memories, they make decisions. it's like if god came down from the sky, told you that you and your family aren't real and that this one girl in france is actually his daughter and she likes your world too much so he's gonna get rid of you now so she doesn't spend so much time here. wouldn't that be retarded?

is there a better sword than dualiso
i have cheater now so i dont need the double attack anymore

and you managed to revive all the people wrongfully killed by the gommage

Those people are still dead. She just brought back copies.

I mean Verso is in a VERY fucked situation. He has been watching his family fight each other while dying for ~100 years. At the same time he has befriended expeditions many times, only for them to all die. Now his favorite family member wants to die in the same way, and he's fully suicidal at this point.

One that applies burn on attack

you have to understand that in the context of the game's world these are NOT make believe characters. not in the slightest. they are not fictional, they are autonomous thinking beings that exist whether or not the person who created them is present. this is what the game's lore tells us.

After getting Cheater I switched the the fire sword that adds burn.
At S rank with all three of the combo pictos it adds an absurd amount of burn on a normal attack, like 50 burn or something, which combos well with Maelles attack that does more damage based on burn stacks

The one that lets you ass rape enemies with burns, I think Contorso? Especially good with extra basic attack pictos. You can dump all your AP into shots, attack to pile on a million burns, cheater to do it again, and you're at S-rank with the enemy having 100+ burn stacks.

but wasn't Renoir actually going to erase it?
She was retarded to but Verso's retardation is so much more egregious it's almost not worth mentioning.

The one that puts her at Virtous stance at round start is the best yeah

Wait, so the world is not actually real, it's a "painting" created by Maelle so she can escape the tragedy in her family? So all the time before the game doesn't actually happen? There were no other expeditions. Is that right?

Maelle isn't real, shes essentially an avatar with amnesia. Verso is massacring people for himself and people in all intents and purposes don't exist to him. He just goes out and kills everyone that loves him.

got a vid?

Those people are still dead. She just brought back copies.

She brings back Lune/Sciel just fine using their Chroma. It's also mentioned that other dead people's Chroma can be sensed (Gustave is mentioned in this way multiple times). And the dead expeditioners brought back at the end are only imperfect because Renoir has control of all the chroma that wasn't trapped in their bodies. They appear to be fully repaired in the ending cutscene. I don't think anyone who was brought back is a copy.

retard

It was made by verso, and its the mom escaping the tragedy, and time spent in it, is real, but for the painters they dont experience it in the real world, or age inside of it.

Is that right?

No, their family can conjure alternate worlds with magical painting abilities. The painting was made by Verso when he was a little kid and it existed independently since then. Time just moves faster in there so it's been like two years or whatever since the fire but 67 years inside. All the expeditions and all their history did actually happen.

he commits genocide and murders everyone he pretended to love. EVERY positive interaction he has with the party members is sociopathic and he's planning on killing them. it really doesn't do much to redeem him that he's doing it all so his mom can have a slightly better life for a few more years.

Renoir agreed to keep the painting and trust her.
Verso gives Maelle a look when she said "just a little more".
He tries a few times to get her to leave but she kept thinking of reasons to stay

they're all artificial lifeforms that were made with a purpose and act according to their programmed directives. They have equally as much inherent value as the video game character Maelle or Super Mario do, and I'm sure you didn't keep the video game expidition 33 open until you died of starvation for fear of killing her

Is it ok to bang Sciel knowing that she'll never love you and will dump you as soon as she's used your cock

Saying the Lumerians aren’t real is the most Reddit talking point there is

programmed directives.

they dont have programmed directives.

After beating it I agree.

yes, in our world, they are meaningless make believe video game characters. i'm talking about the logic of the characters' decision-making in *their* world. and in that world, it is utterly retarded for verso erasing the canvas to be framed as the 'good ending'.

Painted Verso actually says he's been around >100 years, 67 years ago was just when Renoir tried to forcefully kick Aline out of the canvas.

Sasuga worst girl

They live and die by their own initiative ,, there is no god controlling every aspect of their lives, or "directive" controlling them, you are wrong.

If a non painter in the real world would look at the painting, would they see the painted world's inhabitant's autonomy?

yeah, maelle refusing to leave the campus is quite stupid, but... it's more understandable. she's sixteen, she doesn't want to go back to being a deformed agonized burn victim, especially when it's possible they actually will force her to stay like that forever.

no, their ancestors were but the current Lumerians were birthed.
When Sciel or Lune attacks the paintress she says "who the fuck are you?".
So the paintings are able to have children and procreate. Isn't that life?

Verso is also making the decision for maelle instead of herself, so she doesnt even have agency with that ending, both endings are shit.

Ironically, you’re the one talking like a heartless NPC

humans have only been around for like 100 years

we are supposed to feel bad for them when they have no history

Gestral world, get out

the answer relies on lore we don't have. i'm not sure it's relevant.

Clair Obscur is the name of a sideboss

also you can farm said sideboss for 5 lumina items each time and become a god in an hour

KINO

sideboss

it's a regular mob anon....

Where is this boss? Looked it up on youtube but with that name it's impossible to get the results i want

Wrong, it’s ALWAYS okay to genocide the French

Timeline:
Verso (real human) makes a painting with the help of his mom (real human/paintress) to have fun times in and learn how to do painter stuff
It seems heavily implied that he made this painting when he was very young, just a child
Much later, his sister Alicia (real human, aka Maelle) gets scammed into letting a rival magical family faction into their mansion, and they set a fire. Alicia almost dies, but an older Verso dies saving her from the fire, leaving her heavily burned.
Afterward, Verso's mother falls into depression and enters the painting he made as a child and refuses to leave. She will die if she doesn't leave.
She also paints fake painted versions of her family members because she's a crazy bitch trying to cope. This includes the fake copy of Verso that's a playable character.
Verso (real) and Alicia's father goes into the painting to try to force the paintress out, which causes the fracture, fucking up the painting and filling it with monsters.
The paintress is a more skilled painter so she traps dad, but daddy is still able to exert some force and slowly wipe out the painting. Every year, he manages to wipe out another year. The paintress writes in big letters on the monolith how many people she can protect each year, which the citizens misunderstand as her killing them.
In the first year, the initial expidition sets out, which includes the fake family members.

Some time later, Maelle enters the painting to try to help her dad, but accidently gets succed up by her moms magic and gets reborn as a babby. Her sister IRL notices she's getting trapped, but she actually is glad because as long as her sister is stuck int he painting she won't get in the way of her magical war jihad against the fuckers that murdered Verso

So the plot is literally just the Lostbelts from Fate/Grand Order or what the Ascians were doing in FF14 to the Reflections. Good to know. Pass.

they genocided no-one, by the time you had to make the choice there were technically only 3 people alive in that world, renoir, maelle, and verso. the rest were all erased when aline withdrew from the canvas.

If it turns out than out reality is a simulation run from some higher meta-reality, would that instantly make (you), a self-aware being who can experience, not real?

It's a normal enemy in the last dungeon and in Renoir's Drafts I think. There's a chromatic boss version on top of the Monolith where the Paintress was though.

They were all going to die as soon as his soul ran out of juice

I gotta ask, how do you anti-Maelle people interpret the plot of Nier?

head south from the last expedition flag in the monolith, across the plaza and jump across the gap. its like a minute run from the flag

This game felt like reading Gantz. What a massive disappointment. Gameplay was good though.

Don't know what happens in those but even if it is similar, E33 is better just by not looking like a generic weeb shit

Nier did nothing wrong, the entire situation was DevPop's fault, and all the Gestalts were dying anyway because of Shadowlord's genetic disease.

Because if non painters can't see the depth of a painting or experience as a painter can, then the inhabitants of the painting are no more than a make believe friend or a tulpa.

why do people keep writing fanfiction to justify the ending?

But Nier is a Replicant, and therefore, not real, no?

The fuck when does it become Fate Stay Night

thats not how it works.

Qrd on the plot of nier?

It’s the only way Versofags can cope

Potentially. This game's story is only being praised so highly by media illiterate people who think the story is actually 'deep'. This is the same shit when Automata came out and everything was acting like they were experts on existentialism. Philosophical/Gnostic/Esoteric concepts and the occasional fictional archetype/worldbuilding that's tried and true doesn't make something super fucking unique. God I hate zoomers.

The Replicants are real but that's really irrelevant since the Gestalts were fucked independently of anything Nier decided to do.

it's not really a painting, it's more like an alternate reality that the painters can visit and manipulate if they like. it exists independent of anyone's mind or perception of it.

Gone too soon

Do I need to reload an older save to play the other ending? When I enter my save after the credits, Renoir isn't there anymore.

Vraiment kino.

yes, there is a save right before the choice you just gotta find it

What are some games with stories that deserve to be praised?

most of the meta stuff isn't explicitely explained until you kill the paintress and end act 2. Until that point it's just hints and inuendo.

>the first 10 hours where you played as Gustave don’t matter to you anymore

why are people so hung up on the fact that the story is not just the first 10 hours
it's myopic to say the epilogue invalidates the first two acts because you were only beginning to understand the true nature of the world. every bit of the time you spent helped you understand the entire conflict and the world better, it's not a zero sum game.

if you laser focus on an anthill, you'd think it's Kilimanjaro. soon as you zoom out and understand there's a whole world out there and the anthill is only part of it, you'd realize how insignificant the ants and the anthill were and stop putting them on a pedestal.

This is called growing up, like what the game has tried to redpill you over and over

I mean there's a question of are they really dead if Maelle can resurrect all of them.

I feel like if they were actually fully dead and you would only be creating copies, that would be something Renoir/Verso would point out to try to get Maelle to leave. All the stuff about being able to feel Gustave's chroma and Sciel/Lune being recreated from their own chroma makes it seem like it's the same people too.

Yeah, you'll have to load a previous save from before you fought the final boss to do it again, or play through the whole thing again in NG+.

I wonder if there will be a japanese dub in the future. The biggest vod for the game on Twitch is Japanese and has nearly 700k views

The Maiden Rape Assault: Violent Semen Inferno

Right but not everyone is a magical painter in the real world. The question is how do non magical painters perceive the painting. That determines if destroying it completely is moral or not. And yes I know we'll never get that answer.

humanity gets fucked when an angel gets teleported from fantasy-world and tries to enslave everyone

the solution to the angel's forced enslavement is to separate everyone's souls from their bodies

soulless replica bodies are made so the souls can be put back into them when the world is safe

eventually the replicant bodies develop their own sapience and the real human souls start breaking down and killing the replicants

main character kills the soul that the soul-separation system was templated from so any chance of the souls going inasne being fixed goes out the window as it turns out there was no chance to fix them anyway because the reason they went insane is because the original template had a genetic disease that they didn't catch when they made him the basis of the system

If only that faggot had picked me instead of the goddamn hebe...

Absolutely hilarious that the message of the game is "go touch grass."

100% right too, living in fantasy is retarded.

With the story they’ve written, it can’t function as long as Gustave is around. Either he teams up with Maelle to push Verso’s shit in, or he talks Maelle down and convinces her to leave.

Gustave is explicitly a copy because he didn't die from Gommage.

Pathologic, which ironically shares a lot of concepts and themes with E33.

I-Is that a le piano?

MON DIEU, IM GOING INSAAAAANE!

b-b-b-b-b-but SUPER MARIO IS REAL TO ME

No one is saying it’s deep, it just has good dialogue and interesting twists

It also bothers the ever loving fuck out of me that the story relies on the characters just shrugging their shoulders and not asking any questions about anything.

considering that painters are gods in the canvas world, without a "divine intervention" none of those people can come back alive. so that is essentially the definition of death.

if you pay close attention to maelle's ending, the verso standing before the piano had no scars on his face. this is evidence that maelle repainted him into the image she wanted.

the plot about chroma is that, when renoir left, he left maelle all the chroma so she basically have free reign. in the end she is both the painter of living and the dead (alien paints life, renoir paints death)

why does whether or not the magical painters can see it have anything to do with the morality? if it exists regardless who cares whether or not people can see it?

It should have been another story. It was pretty damn good when it was Gustave and the girls.

Why do you keep bringing up Mario, are you stupid?

Xenogears, Phantasy Star II, Eternal Darkness, The Rising of Kellhus, He Who is Outside The Border, Dreamlands: Quest for Unknown K'dath.

mutts law

people keep crying about all the people that Verso has genocided with his ending

finally play his ending

all it does is killing off the rest of the party since everybody was already dead thanks to Renoir

It sucks for the Gestrals and that other race Monoco was chilling with, but humanity was already wiped out except for the party.

all the fake people die and get replaced by actual birthed people

let's bring more of them

It's not okay to kill yourself with meth because you're grieving a lost sibling

Let’s not forget he intentionally let Gustave die so that he wouldn’t get in the way

yeah Lune's whole character is supposed be that she's relentlessly curious about everything but she sees Renoir alude to Maelle being special and unique like fifty times and never mentions it or asks a single question about it. she never questions or theorizes about anything. it's so fucking stupid.

What does dying from Gommage have to do with anything?

There are multiple lines of dialogue about characters being able to feel Gustave's chroma after he dies. Maelle recreates Lune/Sciel from their chroma. It stands to reason she could do the same with Gustave.

Why does he look like the original Chad meme?

Pointless character. The story would work better if you played as Verso from the start instead of awkwardly switching to him a third of the way through.

Except you ignore it was entirely possible to bring them all back.

Because it then goes from throwing out old toys or murdering a whole separate world.

So Verso is the Emet-Selch of E33 then?

It builds Maelle's character and is a great emotional twist if you aren't autistic and thus emotionally stunted

It was pretty generic though, i'm sure you can find hundreds of similar stories without the twists, and they will mostly have anime artstyle

The only thing that made me sad was Noco dying.

He has the white hair highlight so he may as well be.

For like 10 years before Alicia died and Renoir burned the painting.
Best case scenario would be that Renoir rips the drug addict out of the canvas after a few years and burns it then

Maelle can NOT bring back the dead. At best she can make new similar individuals, like how the rebirth of the robot niggas works. It might use the same magic and have the same soul fragment but it would be a new person painted by Maelle and not the original

It was bait and switch. With Gustave the story was a jrpg adventure, with Verso it's western dramaslop.

Maelle is, since she wants to keep coping and remake the world with fake dead people

Not pointless, everything that happened helps making the endings have more impact

True, they did Robert Pattinson dirty.

Evidently there’s a lot of people here that are emotionally stunted since they automatically flip flop on whatever they felt during Act 1 once they misinterpret the plot and decide none of the characters are real, so it’s pointless to feel for them

I think Maelle did repaint Verso yes, but just in a way that let him age and die naturally.

The way I interpret the ending he's the same Verso as during the game, and the reason he pauses and cries a bit before playing the piano is because he can see Maelle beginning to die like Aline was (as we are shown with her face crumbling), but he knows he can't convince her to leave the canvas. All he can do is play and try to make her happy as she dies.

it is murdering a whole separate world. even if all the painters died and none of the non-painters could see the world, from what we know of the lore, that world would still exist. the people in it would still be living lives. thus it is wrong to erase them. just because some other world out there can no longer perceive it, does not make it less real.

Maelle is the main character

You mean like Final Fantasy Tactics Advance? Or Xenoblade? The final story is in no way unique buddy, and most of others like it are exactly the anime you're whining about.

this is the weakest part of the story imo. the entire tension of act 2 would have been resolved by the party simply talking to verso and asking him about everything. it could be inferred that they in fact did ask him off-camera and he didn't give them answers but it would have been much better if we were actually shown him dodging questions the whole act.

What? Renoir agrees not to destroy the painting though.
Thats not true though, she has full control of the chroma, which is essentially there soul it is them.

You know, just because you keep telling yourself something, doesn’t make it true

is this game good or will i be tricked into playing yet another mid JRPG with a mid story? i feel like we haven't gotten a great JRPG in almost a decade now so i'm just waiting for switch 2 emulator for BD remaster

Well yea it's Anon Babble, there's more literally autistic people here than any other video game discussion board / forum on the internet

Neither did the time I spent with my ninja turtles.

Nah I loved Gus, I was pissed at Renoir when he sniped him like that. And they let you try and fight anyway. Good red herring too if you weren't spoiled, Gustave is shown in like all of the marketing material despite dying in act I. They committed to it.

Your response?

The story is just okay but the gameplay, world design, and music are all kino. Very good game.

I just felt confused and disappointed.

Renoir agrees not to destroy the painting though.

Under the presumption that Alicia was going to leave willingly.
He was hoping she wasnt an addict

We never saw a single instance, ever, of somebody who died or was deleted coming back as the same person.
What we DID see was many, many instances of a being daying or being destroyed and then an extremely similar duplicate being made.

So what do you even do with that non functional pictos you can get in the prologue?

How would the dynamics change if Gustave and Verso had been allowed to coexist?

There's someone you can give it to but I really don't remember where.

33'a are both well done, it's that both deny the player catharthis. You know, because of grief and loss, etc. They're both very true to the themes and ideas expressed throughout the entire game

I think one of the wood guys in the gestral village can fix it

Im gonna be honest the ending's are both retarded. For a game about overcoming grief, maelle never gets the opportunity.

Homo lust.

We wouldn't have had that weird incomplete back line. Did they leave it like that just to keep us guessing if Gustave was coming back?

she looked like she was accepting her life and getting over it in the Verso ending
The Maelle ending is the one where she never gets over it and does crack until she died

the verso in maelle's ending is definitely NOT a happy verso.

the line before verso's death were key

>I do not want this life

>unpaint me, please

>help me

he cries because he could not be laid to rest, and is forced to live on. since his soul still maintains the canvas, he understands maelle is editing it and yes, he understands even through his repaint (don't want to say reincarnation because it's not the same mechanic) that maelle's existence in this world fuels her demise. the look of despair and anger is mostly because his death wish was not fulfilled, at that point you can argue whether he still cares if maelle dies. (force into a life of a puppet for an eternity is not fun)

it upgrades a picto to level 5, its dogshit

somebody who died or was deleted coming back as the same person.

an extremely similar duplicate being made.

what's the difference? a sufficiently similar duplicate is, from the outside, indistinguishable. lune and sciel are brought back with all of their memories and characteristics intact. are they not 'the same people'?

???

The story relies on the women have no strong male figure to assume the leadership role and point out how strange Verso is. Kind of based in a roundabout way.

The funeral in verso's ending represents the family finally moving on and accepting his death.

Maelle doesn't even look happy in her ending. It looks like she knows what she's doing is wrong but is forcing herself to be happy the same way she thought she'd be.

It’s very strange that they touched upon Gustave and Lune possibly being a thing, only for Verso to arrive and cuck Gustave after he’s dead

she looked like she was accepting her life and getting over it in the Verso ending

except she didnt get to make that choice, someone else did. Thats the problem.

shit nigga you sold me, let's go rob that bank

why didn't they just heckin ask Verso to explain

The last expedition Verso was truthful towards captured and tortured him until their gommage

I must say, it’s difficult to feel bad for Verso given how much of a cold blooded snake he is

Gustave wouldn't have trusted Verso at first sight, to begin with. He would have known there was something sketchy going on.
The girls trusted Verson because he came handy as the new, natural leader who knew his shit and was capable of defending them, but with Gustave alive, Verso basically has nothing going on to him.

English please.

If my sibling refused to quit meth I'd call the cops on them and force them to quit

Lune and Sciel never came back, those were brand new Tulpas that Maelle made up that just looked and acted similar to how she remembered them being. That's why her remembering was so important; because she wasn't resurrecting them, she was making new NPCs and she needed to design them

are the characters at least decent? this is a french game so i don't expect much from the story. i liked playing chained echoes despite the story being terrible

the problem is that they rely on contrivance. the writers did not leave literally any room to interpret the painted world as 'fake' or morally less valuable, so the decision to destroy it is abhorrent but is presented as difficult but righteous.
the decision to preserve it, meanwhile, is presented as evil propitiation of an addiction; the writers apparently not caring in the slightest about any character besides maelle.

There's his weird childhood friend thing with Sciel too. Then later we find out they just friends and she was married kek
I feel weirdly offended, like this was on purpose.

Maellefags don’t click this files.catbox.moe/5zz0fz.png

Okay, but thats not going to stop the meth addiction. Grief isnt something someone else can overcome for you. The ending just narratively falls flat.

I would fix her with my penis

No I'm pretty sure not having access to meth for a while will give them a chance to realize meth is le bad and quit

Verso a good boy he dindu nuffin just need chroma fo dem programs

Legit 80 IQ analogy. The people in the canvas are sentient

I think you’re an NPC

i'm sorry, but if they have all the memories, personality, continuity of self, and free will of a human being (the game does nothing to indicate that they don't), how are they a tulpa or in some way less-valuable?

I dont think gambling on someone elses health is a very good choice.

Did you forget the lines immediately after?

If you could grow old

Would you find a reason to smile?

And then Verso in the ending cutscene is much older. His death wish is fulfilled, he will eventually die, it's not an eternity (and I don't think he's a puppet), but he has to watch as Maelle dies in the canvas as well and can do nothing to help her.

Funny how your opinion on a subject changes when presented with new information than entirely changes the situation

Okay, final veredict, I didn't like the ending. It just... doesn't feel good or bring up any special thoughts. I'm just disappointed that was all it was.

Tulpas by definition have free will.
Tulpas, also by definition, are less valuable

What does it change? They’re still human beings with emotions and free will

Maelle fags: its better for someone to die of a meth overdose than for their family to intervene and force them to stop doing meth

files.catbox.moe/edcrpq.mp4

The world was not actually real. People are making shit up about how they're sentient beings with souls. The only real things in there are the family members.

how long does it take maelle to die by the way? how many years of happiness does she get? god, the supposed 'negative effects' of staying in the canvas are so poorly fleshed out despite the entire plot hinging on them.

i sympathize with both maelle and verso for different reasons: lack of maturity and someone who's seen too much

>lack of maturity

maelle's ending is fitting for someone her age. a teenager who's going through the most awkward phase of her life. and suddenly a tragedy renders her brotherless and disfigured. this is a crushing blow for many kids her age going through their own problems. any 16 years old would make the choice of maelle in a heartbeat because they gravitate away from pain

>too mature to want to go on

imagine finding out you are immortal, you have literally eternity to roam the world, see everything in the world, know everything to know. sounds great doesn't it? but the catch is, it's not up to you to decide. someone else decided for you. and now what appears to be a gift now is a curse. would you not want to escape this curse? considering in the end, you realize your mother caused all of this, at the cost of her life too. being mature is about letting go of the self and understanding what sacrifice means. verso had many years to contemplate this problem. if you have an eternity to live, you too will be calculating because you have more information than everybody else

Did the game ever answer that scene with the Nevron with the rose? Possibly alluding it was Sophie?

Thats not how addictions work. Your family telling you drug bad isnt going to make those cravings disappear, its entirely requires the person to WANT to change. Which is the issue.

I went from caring about them to realize Renoir was right
Stop bringing more sentient lives into this fake broken world, it was never meant for humans

How do I make a tulpa?

If you could grow old

I took it to mean that she aged him up so he isn't suicidal and wouldn't keep trying to kill himself. She needs him alive to live out her fantasy

you've gotta cite evidence for this man. if this were true the game's ending would at least make sense. but there's literally no indication in the game that lune, gustave, sciel, sophie, even verso, are fake soulless husks that we shouldn't care about.

My only issue with this game is media illiterate retards are going to see future games using the tired tropes of this game and immediately go "THEY COPIED E33 THEY COPIED E33!!!!" God I fucking hate zoomers.

Literal retards.
Not only does the real world story have a direct potential sequel in the "Writers' plot", they can even use the idea of Canvas for infinite painted worlds thus making the IP infinite as well.
You have the imagination and media literacy of actual Downies.

become a schizo and refuse to take medication.

They're clearly sentient. You'd have to be retarded to not see this

youtu.be/OA3WGf9pX0A?si=blaQXcGtTOYOWjE1

Aline was in there for >100, so who knows, but probably a long time.

I also kinda doubt Renoir would let her fully die without trying something again, but who knows that's DLC/sequel shit.

They made both Verso and Maelle sympathetic. You're projecting your own feelings into it, as was intended, both in the way the story is written and by the mere fact you're left to choose. It was well done. The heated debates regarding the two choices is sign of that.

the humans seem to be having a pretty good time in fantasy france anon. who are you to say that actually they'd be better off nonexisting?
this is the logic you use to automatically sterilize any country that falls below a certain happiness quotient for enough years.

but this game just copied Steelrising

Here's a hypothetical for you because it's quite literally the scenario in the game
Your sister is addicted to meth. She will die soon if she does not stop doing meth. She will not stop doing meth on her own, there is no Earthly way to convince her to stop doing meth. However, there is a way for you to destroy literally all the meth in existence, and she will not go through withdrawal, although she might be sad that she can't do meth anymore.
Do you
1. Let her continue doing meth until she dies
Or
2. Destroy all the meth

How's the challenge tower like?

A robot acts as though it is sentient because it has been programmed by a sentient being to act as a sentient would. Much like a clone would believe its real because thats how its memories were implanted.

I mean, E33 copied Persona 5 Royal

33 levels of hell. Last fight is fun, but not worth it

I thought it was pretty easy.

Yeah which is all just basic-ass gnostic bullshit. Gnostics are shit btw. Take the Hermeticpill

I know for a fact that Esquie has a soul.

Just making his body older doesn't fit what she's saying though.

He has lived >100 years watching everyone he knows die, except a few family members that are constantly fighting each other. I think Maelle was talking about finding meaning living a normal life.

Aline wasnt in there for much longer before Renoir went in to take her out
Also Maelle is the weakest painter and already has a frail body, she wont last nearly as long. Renoir even comments that she's already been in the canvas too long

We can all agree that things would be better if the UK got erased, though

Anyone?

Is he a reference to some French fairy tale or folklore or something? He's a strange dude.

if you limit yourself to the evidence from the game, verso isn't sympathetic in the slightest. i personally hated the ending because the game sympathizes so heavily with him while doing absolutely nothing to make the case for his insane 'destroy everyone to save one person' position. it relied on good music and voice acting and vague lines to justify contrivance.

Thats a stupid argument because you didnt actually present a choice. Most drug rehabs for instance have you keep taking the drug and slowly ween you off because going cold turkey is actually worse from withdrawl.

Good red herring too if you weren't spoiled, Gustave is shown in like all of the marketing material despite dying in act I.

Not really, people who actually paid attention to the pre-release material have contiously called out that Gustave only showed up in low-level footage and expected him to die at some point, with Maelle becoming the MC. Including him in the Dualliste footage was cheeky, but meaningless in the end since people couldn't know when that fight would come up.

so why is Verso staring at his hand and crying?

BASED

the fact that the game doesn't explore this theme and goes full blade runner is a symptom of the fact the writers are retards
fuck the family feud
and fuck the drug addict teenager
fuck both endings

If i were to take a shit into the canvas, what would happen?

There is no canvas withdrawal, the point is you have an option of totally ending their access to the drug forever or you can let them kill themselves, that's the only two options

I preferred Gustave to Verso.

a lot of people predicted Gustav will die

Just popping in to say fuck Gus, I prefer Verso.

The withdrawal in this case is the grief and depression. I dont think you have a good understanding how depression works...

Painted Verso who was created by Aline says he's >100 years old. Renoir may have been in there longer than 67 years, but he only tried to kick Aline out by fighting her starting 67 years ago.

Sure maybe Maelle will not last as long, but it's all speculative. Maybe not having to constantly fight someone and try to stop them from gommaging everyone makes you last longer. Maybe bringing everyone back spends a ton of energy and makes her die faster. We have no clue. We also don't know how long the translation from IRL to canvas is.

The writers truly believe that Verso is the tragic hero of the story, when it’s actually Maelle. Verso just wants to kill himself, and he doesn’t care who he takes down with him. Meanwhile Maelle is willing to lay down her life to give the people of Lumiere a second chance.

the verso in the campfire dialogues and the verso in the major cutscenes are completely different people. verso in campfire dialogues is a charming rogue with a heart of gold and good sense of humor.
verso in the cutscenes is a depressed 100 year old sociopath.

Me too. Robot hand dadbro was more charming than weird immortal creeper notbrother guy.

She will have to take on the grief in healthy ways, not with meth.
You have to let go

Its better to feel anger than feel nothing, which is what the vast majority of games bring.

I meant what I said. I prefer the cutscene version.

real world is some kind of magical France where painters can create whole new universes from their paintings

they can enter their paintings too and become like gods, but this hurts them somehow

This is some weird stuff. Not sure I like it.

in health ways

By being dragged and forced by someone else? Thats certainly not healthy.

yes. i hate the endings are clearly good/bad coded. also literally stolen from p5 royal like another anon mentioned, maruki and maelle are the real heros.

You are truly stupid if you song realize Maelle is a selfish drug addict

Yeah gnostic shit with a sprinkle of Michael Kirkbride theosophic cocaine-addled fever dream.

A robot could theoretically achieve sentience. And a clone is still real too. But putting that aside, virtually all of the painted people at the start of the game (sans the fake Dessendre family) were born naturally into the world. They didn't have a "creator" molding their memories and personalities like Fake Verso or Fake Renior did.

That being said, Fake Verso is still sentient even though he has a creator. He feels, he thinks. He makes decisions.

IT'S NOT REAL, THEY'RE INK

you're just playing the bad games anon, go deeper and look at the past

He is very sympathetic. As is Maelle. Neither character is wrong for pursuing the paths they take because the story takes pains to show you what they've lost, what they're after, and why they're opposed. That's not contrivance. You're throwing words around to convince yourself the writers have failed, when they haven't. There wouldn't be endless debates as to which choice is preferable if the story was as one sided as you claim. YOUR inability to sympathize with a character isn't the game's fault.

Take some English lessons before you call others stupid

Verso just wants to kill himself

Verso just wants to save Maelle. The fact that he didn't have to just kill himself, but others as well just so Maelle can live is on her. not him

Put down the meth pipe anon

She is a selfish drug addict but her selfishness also allows a whole world of people to continue on. Verso is also selfish and is willing to end an entire world because he wants to commit suicide.

Shut up Vershit

Like I said, I think he's seeing Maelle's face, which is showing that she's dying in the same way Aline was, and he knows he can't do anything to stop it at this point.

Yeah but you’re a retard. All the healthy people can see that it’s fucked staying in a canvas as some sort of goddess to try to give everyone a happy end and see their lives unfold while you’re slowly rotting, and writers are possibly raping your body outside
People sympathize with a brother saving his little sister, even after his death. It’s a beautiful story. You’re just fucked in the head.

make a cute world with gestrals and the other dudes

die

mother add humans and nigs to it

it was made by clea which is why she felt something probably

The difference is Maruki was rewriting the current reality and messing with free will.
Maelle created her own separate reality and let people live how they pleased.

Everything is act 3 is retardedly easy when you figure out maelle can one shot even the super boss.

to continue on

For like 10 years, then the painting is getting torched anyway, and the family will be left grieving over another child (and possibly Aline too if she can find the canvas to get back into it)

What happens when some higher being decides that (you) are not real and decides to smite you?

They’re as real as you are, you just haven’t been shown how your own world is a simulation.

Painted Clea? or real Clea?

youtube.com/watch?v=nu4Ina5TpC8

maybe the based writers will kill Aline and then Renoir has no reason to torch the painting

That explains why Verso was dodgy. That doesn't explain why his new team would just accept him being dodgy.

you kind of have a point. i know what verso's lost, and what he's after, and why maelle opposes him. i suppose i can sympathize with why he's doing it, although i think it's insanely selfish and outright evil. the problem is that i don't think the writers view it that way. i think the writers clearly view verso's ending as superior to maelle's ending, which is offensive to me as a player who thought maelle was clearly in the right. the writers seem to think of verso as someone who has done something ambiguous, when he's done something atrocious for sympathetic reasons.

implying the writers won't torch every canvas they find if they win

Do not compare withdrawal to depression, retard.

the medallum weapon for maelle you get in the gestral tourney, makes the entire game a joke

not that anon but killing all the people in the canvas is fucked up. also why did you randomly bring rape into this you weird fuck

Is it necessary to have her Gestral arena weapon for that? Or is there any other weapons that start you in virtuous stance? I was having Gustave kick everybody's ass back in Act 1, rip the best dad bro ever.

The fact you can see these are real people worth saving is an indictment of you, not the writers. You’re too hung up on “its just a painting!” as if that invalidates all their complex lives they’ve been leading for the last 70 years.

In the end there will be the father and the older sister having to deal with the loss of the mother and Maelle. If Renoir also ends himself, Clea will probably go all out Jihad and die too.

*get enslaved by your sister*

Because he's still guiding them while remaining dodgy. The first thing he tells them is how to beat the paintress.

I liked Gustave but the execution of the scene was horrible:
Renoir just appearing out of nowhere, the 2 other sluts oblivious on Esquie (who is doing jackshit to help despite being a godlike entity), whatever the fuck magic dome around Maelle...
A full meal of anime plot devices and idiotic decisions, like a terrible hommage to Sephiroth killing Aerith... The cinematography was laughtably bad compared to the Gommage scene for example.

You don't even need it. You can hit damage cap with Maelle almost right after you get her. She's ridiculous.

*not in a good way*

Verso knows the painting has a definitive end, either now or with the end of Alicia's life. He likely hoped that Alicia would use the canvas responsibly and leave with Renoir, coming to visit now and again while also letting him finally die, but he quickly realized she was never going to leave and she would never let him die.

He wasnt left with any other option, it was either let his sister die or save her life.

The world is not real, Marche's maxima still rings true: it's not healthy. Verso was right.

Why did Clea paint the white nevrons? Or did the mom do that?

Maelle agrees to leave the painted world

On the condition that Verso lets her restore everyone who died

Boom, fixed the ending

nigga why you replying to me like i don't agree with you, what the fuck did you get from my post

they are insufficiently skeptical of him. you can't trust someone if they are continually evasive about so many important questions.

The world is not real

But it is, people live and die on their own with zero input from the outside.

Yes but you can get it again by having her fight the tribe leader alone. That's what I ended up doing. Or you can do first strike ability, change into 200% damage mode, and have sciel use her dance ability if you can't get the sword.

Clea hid it though. The only person we know can find it is Aline.

No.

NO DON’T PLAY PIANO

DON’T PLAY MY PIANO

NO NOOOOO!

I already played everything in the past, I’m fucking old.

which should have been the choice instead of giving the characters zero agency

Both endings carry a touch of melancholy and dissatisfaction. Neither character is truly satisfied nor are they granted real peace. That's consistent with the game. And for what it's worth, I agree that Verso acts vile. But he has also been tortured, maimed, and suffered to see innumerous friends die over the years of unwanted immortality from which he is desperate to escape. His pain is clearly written and makes him sympathetic, even if it comes at the cost of destroying the characters we love and cherish. None of us forget losing Gustave, and it's unfathomable to think Verso could write him off; but consider how long and painful a path he's walked to end up there. I didn't feel that the writers preferred either character. Theh gave equally convincing endings to both. But I appreciate your passion in discussing it. To me, the fact that there is so much back and forth about this aspect is a sign that they hit it out of the park.

You get 9999 damage break at the start of act 3.

I mean that could still happen. Maelle isn't a hole faced schizo yet like Aline was after being in the canvas for >100 years. I doubt Renoir is just going to let her stay in there until she dies.

Do retards not realize that maelle was using the painting irresponsibly and was responsible for all the death? And that the painting is going to end anyway?

The two of them could’ve just jumped off the cliff and cast a healing spell on Gustave, and everything would’ve been all good

Are they? Maelle was shown to be puppetmastering Verso by forcing him to play at that concert. There's no way to know what other strings she's pulling to create her perfect, happy world. They could all be simulacrums for all we know.

I can already see it. The continuation of this game will be disconnected worlds both from the writers and painters that will sometimes reference previous games/worlds. I'm already tired of it.

There were no people killed in the canvas, people means human beings, they are not human beings. If the dessendre family died and someone bought their stuff that entire world would be theirs to do whatever the fuck they want, like Rape Sophie while Gustav watches. Because that’s what you get for being a lifeform in a fucking canvas. Is it really that hard not to be a fucking lifeform in a canvas?
Is it really so hard not to be some kid’s childhood drawing when he’s learning how to draw?
Is it really so fucking hard?

Sorry, you get no sympathy from me, i have no respect for canvas lifeforms, just like i have no respect for the Irish

your life is going to end too, why have you not gommaged yourself?

That was literally what Verso was fighting for, but then you see her lie to renoir saying "Just a little longer papa, I promise I'll leave after a bit more time"
The scene cuts to Verso,s reaction, where he's glaring intensely at Maelle knowing that shes lying to him and she went over the deep end just like Aline did. He even asks her to leave once more, and she makes up fake justifications like how Renoir would just burn the painting if she did.

Verso wasnt left with any other choice, destroying the canvas was the only way to save his sister

*punches you in the mouth*

Verso just wants to kill himself

That was his plan before Maelle got her Alicia memories back and Paintress powers. Then he sticks with her plan, even hoping to maybe bring back Julie. Then when he saw Maelle lying to Renoir and what kid soul Verso is going through, he changed his views again, but this time it's far less selfish because he would not only unpainted himself, but also save Alicia (at least that's what he believes).

it's crazy how much the other ending is way more hopeful, you can clearly see that they're gonna get through this

I'm pretty sure the little boy she was waking around with is the Verso who gets to grow old and die, while the piano playing Verso is forced to watch and play a part.

Imagine if in the ending of The Wizard Of Oz, Dorothy and Scarecrow had to fight each other since Dorothy doesn't want to go home and will die if she stays but her leaving will mean everyone in Oz dies

women ruin everything the game

this game needed more clea. shes smoking hot

the painting has a definitive end, either now or with the end of Alicia's life

where are you getting this? as far as i know, the painting exists until someone destroys it. alicia's death wouldn't change anything unless renoir or clea or somebody decided to get revenge on it.
to be clear, maelle absolutely should've been willing to use the canvas responsibly, but her inability to is genuinely sympathetic.

it's always ok to commit genocide as long as the people being genocided are inferior to you

genocide an entire world instead of sending your sister on a forced vacation

just heidi that disfigured retard in switzerland or something
fucking hack writers i tell you

Renoir would burn the painting to end the cycle once no family members were left in it.

Permanently mutilated

Mother and sister are both evil bitches

Father murdered your surrogate older brother

The blood of millions is on your hands

Real hopeful, yeah

Alicia still standing apart from her family

Bad ending.

Sorry something fucked up on my end, that was not meant for you.

retard

is she actually puppetmastering him in that moment or is he just devastated that alicia is gonna die in the canvas?

clea will fight the writers in the dlc

But it was Verso and Renoir who ruined everything

delusions, fitting for someone who will choose the Maelle end and end her

maelle living with her family who loves her is so depressing

Her and Clea are standing about an equal distance away from the parents. Its just the angle

permanently mutilated

Her fault. Other canvases exist

Mother and sister

Love her, please pay attention

Father murdered your surrogate older brother

No he didn't, pay attention

Canvas lifeforms don’t have human rights, anon.

>The blood of millions is on your hands

ink*

You’re angry because you know you’re felted

Does anyone know this?

Is this in the game somewhere? I would be much less critical if Verso had been arguing along these lines, but Renoir post-bossfight seemed rather uninterested in destroying the canvas, if alicia was already dead I don't think he'd see any point in it, if he's even still alive himself at that point.

It seems like that would defeat the entire point idk.

But the depressed teenager said they don't love her anon

you didn't pay any attention to the story

Why didn't Renoir just make her leave?

She's a teenager with an addiction lashing out at her parents.
Anon Babble will obviously side with her.

Liar

life keeps forcing cruel choices

i want prequel dlc where we play as alicia and get bullied by clea

This scene literally doesn't matter.
God, I hate these "it was all a dream" stories. I thought we were through with them.

Her mom hates her and her sister is a psycho who sees her as a tool.

and that's why who wrote this game should've explored this theme much more, like blade runner. much more interesting than le cope with loss baguette family sadness

You’re the one who gaslit yourself into thinking all the characters are soulless husks that we shouldn’t give a shit about

indochina

Lune...

clea is just direct and blunt, she doesn't hate alicia but does blame her for the fire and verso's death (because she is at fault)

Clea did nothing wrong

Clea, stop pulling your sisters hair!

Why did she do it

her sister is a psycho who sees her as a tool.

Play the side areas you idiot

her mother hates her

That's literally just explicitly false. Her mother risks her life at the end of the game to help her

That's what the whole final battle was about bro. He couldn't do it because he jobbed.

but it wasn't a forced choice at all though. what if verso and the gang kicked maelle out of the canvas just like they did with aline and in exchange renoir doesn't erase them. that way alicia can't do her canvas gooning and the entire civilization of lumierians doesn't have to cease existing.

for those who come after :)

nobody the world was fake lmao

Maelle was shown to be puppetmastering Verso by forcing him to play at that concert

Not sure why you guys think this. Because he hesitates, struggling internally with all his pain and seeing his sister getting paintsickness? Forced to live a life he didn’t want? There is nothing to suggest Maelle has overt control over his actions.

Alicia is a TERRIBLE person and was depicted as such by the devs. She is canonically evil and selfish. Picrel proves how awful she really is. This VERY dialogue is ONLY here to point out she only does this for herself and not to make things rights after causing her brother's death.
I want to vomit, literally.

she's just too based

It is relevant, for the characters and thematically.
Gustave's attitude towards her death was right, unlike Maelle's and her own predicament.

Except half her family is open about not loving her, and the other half forces her to live a life of pain and misery

Play the side areas you idiot

I did.

That's literally just explicitly false. Her mother risks her life at the end of the game to help her

Aline risks her life to try and stop Renoir and save the painting. She can't stand to look at Alicia, according to her own words.

Please play the game before commenting

Here is our daughter's room

She really love those indochina herbal remedies

it's not selfish to make your own choices, sister

VERSOTARDS, YOUR RESPONSE???

If gods existed outside our reality in a space we couldn’t inhabit, are we suddenly not real?

You didn't pay attention

Follow your own advice.

can't even breathe without pain

the writers for this game try to make her life as shit as possible to make the choice hard. although for me it's not about her pain but the people in the canvas

my thoughts on the characters is completely irrelevant (you're wrong about that too though). anyone who paid any attention to the story would know you're objectively wrong, regardless of what "side" they took.

it's a drug shes unwilling to resist. Don't make the same mistake

They spell it out for you dumb Maelle fags

this point defeats 95% of the arguments in this thread.

... Before the final battle, idiot.

It was Alicia who brought writers to their home and got almost killed if it wasn’t for his brother who gave his life to save her
It was Aline who then went into a peaceful canvas and tried killing herself in numbness in it, forcing her family members to try to save her which plunged the entire canvas into death and destruction

So yes, women ruin everything.

Verso is making his own decision as well.

Aline was already weakened

and her sister is a psycho who sees her as a tool.

he didn't finish the Endless Tower

PAPA PLEASE NO I JUST NEED ONE MORE HIGH PAPA I PROMISE JUST ONE MORE HIGH

does the game ever tell us if Aline created Lumiere?

Apologize.

She's responsible for her "pain and misery" literally

all im saying is, this is the best ending because of

pic rel

i seriously believe this kind of misery porn is some sort of demotivation psyop to make people believe nothing really matters and you should stop fighting. fuck the spineless french, things were better when they just guillottined people out of mass hysteria.
no i won't take my pills

Aline was already weakened

well yeah but i mean, if verso is able to solo maelle i'm pretty sure the whole party could get her out of there. she's not exactly an experienced paintress, she's like just started.

They're just crude imitations, like Noco

Clea personally disapproves of Maelle staying in the canvas but ultimately respects her decision if she does stay.

he didn't finish the Endless Tower

I did. An image of Clea expresses that she wants Alicia to have fun. That's it. Meanwhile the real Clea has been fucking around meddling in the painting, then treats Alicia like a bitch and happily risks her life sending her inside the painting because she wants Renoir out, only so she can have his help fighting the Writers. Clea is a psychotic bitch.

causing her brother's death

did you even play the game? The writers killed him.

are they though? you interact with them for the first portion of the game

* have to watch your love interest widowed waifu be fucked by some french guy named Pierre *

It looks like she got in with selfish intentions but also wanting to help, then stayed for purely selfish reasons

Clea standing there with a thousand yard stare thinking only about murdering more writers. Holy fuck, I love this psychotic cunt. She couldn't even just kill Simon or her painted self, she had to turn Simon into a Soul of Cinder skin walker and imprison her painted self. God, she's fucking perfect.

Alicia isn't a slave. She could've told Clea no. She went in the canvas because she wanted to

Alicia is a TERRIBLE person and was depicted as such by the devs

I think so too. When she comes back as Alicia she’s not the same maelle we knew. She’s a much more selfish person. I don’t think old maelle would just erase her copy with a smile on her face like alicia did.

And how did they get to him, genius

You keep using words that you don’t know the meaning of. And you keep making statements instead of arguments.

God does exist, he created us. But we’re not a canvas lifeforms. Our exitstance isn’t tied to a drawing that someone can shit in.
God created many animals, no one cares about lives of ants though. That’s just how it goes. You cannot be a canvas lifeform, that literally makes you a joke, and everyone are laughing at you.

That's completely irrelevant to how Clea views her.

I think you're actually just making things up

Don't roll your eye at me, sister dear.

kek

Father murdered your surrogate older brother

explain how this is true

They shot at her, he threw himself in front of the bullet, so to speak. Her mother and sister blame her because of something incredibly naive she did which led to it.

man, you can see the exact moment she starts huffing the copium

I hope next game we can play as writers and choke slam Alicia to death since it's her fault Verso had to destroy the canvas

I can literally go into the canvas and draw a giant penis which they have to use to drink water, literally how can a lifeform like this be taken seriously?
It’s a joke.

You are god's canvas lifeform.

christcuck painfully unaware he was the joke all along

And now you’ve gone full retard

now that the dust has settled, what did he mean by this?
youtu.be/op_GjDtmmEY?t=213

speedruns, speedreads and misses all the points

These fading images are not manufactured beings, there echoes of actual people. Clea is a good sister and loves Alicia and wishes her the best. Even tells her she doesn't own anything to their parents. She seems cold and strict in the flashback only because she's griefing too, in her way. Plus her hands are full with the mess Renoir and Aline should be dealing with.

The real question is, who was right?

If god created us, then we exist in something like a canvas to him.

Verso obviously

I like to pretend the writers are the british and the composers the germans
Perfidious albions

Genocide all Dessendres except Maelle.

Maelle obviously

delusional teen wanting to keep living in fantasy world

verso

I didn't speedrun anything. I'm simply better at video games than you.

Clea is a good sister and loves Alicia and wishes her the best.

Clea WAS a good sister and ONCE loved Alicia and wishED her the best. In the past.

She seems cold and strict in the flashback only because she's griefing too, in her way.

This is cope and backed by nothing but your fantasies.

Look at this doood

Clea, by staying out of it.

go on spotify, search e33

the soundtrack is 7 HOURS of nier-like music

Lorien Testard better get hired for a bunch of new games cause he's really good. OST is orchestral and amazing.

Children and trannies pick Maelle

They can't go into Lumière and their function is to kill expeditioners and syphon their chroma to break the stalemate. The painted Dessendres killed them normally so that their chroma wouldn't be trapped.

If you don't consider the painting people to be "real" people then Verso is objectively and unarguably right.
If you consider the painted people to be equally as real as the real world humans then they're both wrong (Verso for being a genocidal maniac and Maelle because she isn't actually trying to save people, she just wants to waste away and die smoking crack cocaine because she can't cope)

So in conclusion, Maelle is definitely wrong and Verso may or may not be wrong.

Never the woman.

(only) In the past

Absolutely not true. Slow down next game.

He considers saving his sister worth more than a whole world.

Maelle is right because the people in the painting deserve to be happy, and that matters more than one guy who is suicidal.

Something like a canvas my ass. We’re in the same universe as he, in a giant fucking universe. These people exist in a random painting
But you don’t seem to understand, human lives do in fact not matter compared to the life of God. That is on fact true, and God easily kills people without thinking twice.

Alicia is in fact a higher lifeform than them, their existence cannot be a danger to her

The Writers

I don't care at all about any characters who don't originate from the painting.
They're all horrible assholes who deserve to suffer.
Ideally, humanity inside the painting could be revived and then slaughter all the "humans" from outside. Failing that, they should totally seal themselves from the outside world.

"WRITERS could be here" she thought

"I HATE WRITERS" she thought

There's 2 people left at that point

Maelle is not his sister thoughbeit
They're not even the same species

Verso is right, but only because Alicia is a hopeless addict. Maybe if Gustave was alive and aware of the situation, he could've convinced her to both let go of painted Verso and leave the painting, but he had to die to have the sad french film endings.

all she had to do was LEAVE

I just checked reddit and steam threads and most say verso end is the right choice

Verso is the right choice

b_but Papa will hide the bottles of alcohol if I leave my room

Ideally, humanity inside the painting could be revived and then slaughter all the "humans" from outside

game is too french millennial to accept such a based ending anon, just care about the family tragedy s'il vous plait :^)

Well Renoir or Clea are going to destroy the painting as soon as Alicia withers away in the real world, so it's a fucking lose-lose since she won't just fuck off from the painting.

Ok so the christcuck sides with gods who don’t care about him to the detriment of all life and his loved ones
Got it

Just play Star Ocean 3

Technicalities at that point.

I don't think Clea would bother destroying it

Don't forget that child Verso's tortured, exhausted soul is forced to be kept alive and painting when you choose Maelle.

They’re both right and wrong in their own ways. Ultimately the Maelle ending is the one with the biggest net positive. Yeah, Verso is still depressed, and Maelle is still running from her troubles, but the people of Lumiere get a second chance.

this is the reason Gustav had to die and can't be resurrected in Act 3.
Gustav would've moved heaven and earth to convince Maelle to leave.
As oppose to Verso's older brotherly "fine, I'll kick your ass to get you to leave my room"

It's not robotics you fucking smoothbrained imbecile.

it's okay babe, we need you outside for a second to sign a contract

box her ass

exile her in switzerland or something to touch grass or some shit

easy

The rest of the people are all a click of the Undo button in ms paint away.

Good. He deserves that and worse.

Does the soul actually say this? I think painted Verso might have been projecting. It seemed like the soul loved the world and the people in it and said they were real people.

get out of a painted world

and into 1905, Paris

Anon, in a few years it will literally become hell on earth

nobody in this thread cared at all about the lives of sciel and lune. i wonder if the writers intentionally made them kinda suck so the players would be cool with them dying?

Gustave's theme starts playing right before the final boss

The Verso fragment in the Flying Manor says he loves the painted world and all its inhabitants and doesn't want them gone.

Clown, you don’t side with God, even uttering those words is nonsense. You exist in his grace or you don’t exist. The existence of the creations is dependent on the creator.
A creator cannot be morally judged no matter what he does with his creation, these are not the same planes of existence.

Aren't there a lot of boy shadows around the world you can meet that suggest otherwise?

We care about Monoco and Esqie though

this
painters are all junkies

Oh yeah. Congratulations, you've completely changed my outlook on the game.

Alicia dies smoking opium

Parents become even more depressed and die as well

Clea: man this family sucks

Leave the manor to fuck real life Gustave

It's fantasy Paris though, Verso died on the 33rd of December which obviously isn't how real December works. Maybe there will be no world wars.

so basically

two acts are about uninteresting characters

last act is about an uninteresting family

why is this game praised again? zoomies on canvas (=fotm) fumes?

Ahem

honestly maelle is gonna spend most of her life in paintings no matter what. you really think she's gonna spend much time in the real world when she can't even breathe without pain? she'll bounce around from canvas to canvas until she's an old woman and die

true, but they seemed chill with dying.

why is this game praised again?

For the video game part.

Hitler liked to paint and wanted to be an artist

Uh oh

she cant even speak in the real world and is disfigured, she has to wear a mask to hide it, or she can be happy with her friends in the painting.

Other painting shouldn't have the pull this one has considering Verso's soul isn't inside maybe?

They were created by verso and they will always be his friends and side with him

I think it was more that they were Verso's best friends for probably like 1000 years and supported Verso who wanted to die more than anything else.

that's true, you'd think the two female partymembers you spend the whole game with dying and having their dreams crushed would leave more of an impact

she just needs an illiterate mountain retard friend

I didn't give a shit about either of them.

I didn't find them really interesting desu

Almost like they aren't even real

she cant even speak in the real world and is disfigured, she has to wear a mask to hide it

And whose fault is that?

I did. Just as much as Gus and the rest of luminaire. Makes me sick to erase them with verso. I wish Alicia (not maelle, honestly despite Alicia saying she’s both now I feel like Maelle is actually dead) would just leave the painting on her own, but she’s too selfish.

it's not even about verso's soul. every moment she spends in the real world she's in pain. she's free in a canvas

i cant wait to play as a writerchad in the sequel and btfo the painters

Verso for not saving her good enough.

why would verso choose death over playing music with lune, for example?

i'd have to rewatch it but im pretty sure verso said he hated painting during the piano camp scene with maelle. that's why this is the only painting he did when we was 10 and then went on to play music instead. which adds extra weight to his soul being stuck there painting for eternity.

Renoir said he and Aline had painted over a thousand canvases. They've probably spent hundreds of lifetimes worth of time in other worlds
But moderation is still important in the end, living in a canvas for a year or something is fine, spending decades inside one is not

are the writers actually 400 iq geniuses who wrote the fake characters to be dull and shallow to tip you off???

Verso for not saving his ass instead

Just shut the fuck up. Fucking yaway horseshit.

Alicia leaving wouldn’t matter because retarded mother would still come back.
It just is what it is, as lower beings you cannot afford to be a nuisance for higher beings. It can only end one way.

Why even bother playing the game if you’re just gonna be a little fedora tipping fag who doesn’t give a shit about any of the characters?

There is footage of him fighting Dualliste, you disingenous cocksucker. You are a lying faggot trying to sound clever.

Pleb

a creator cannot be morally judged no matter what he does with his creation

and that's precisely why we call you christcucks

Like real Verso he choose his family over everything else. You can see in the last fight it's when his mom come back in the painting he start acting up

but what's truly wrong with living your life in one canvas and accepting death there? sure she won't live thousands of lifetimes but what if she doesn't want to? she'll still live a long ass time in versos canvas

1. he pretty much only cares about two people in the world, the real verso's mom and sister, and fake verso/verso's soul fragment/the painting existing are directly causing them to slowly commit suicide and go insane
2. the entire world is being fueled by the eternal slave labor of a trapped and exhausted soul fragment from the soul of the dead guy he's modeled after and feels some kinship towards

why cant you read

Because that's just suicide
We also don't know how long the can even survive in a canvas given how weak she is compared to the rest of her family

Oh, so it’s okay when Verso ropemaxxes, but not Maelle

Shut up, christcuck.

the difference is that Maelle is a real person and not an NPC in a VR game

isn't it selfish to not consider his sister's feelings, what if she wants to be in the painting as a normal girl who wasn't burned in a fire?

not really it's choosing how you want to live your life. if she doesn't want or need thousands of lifetimes in other canvases, then that should be fine? even clea says the only thing alicia owes to her parents is to live a life she enjoys

The more you find out about him, the less sympathetic he is. He is shown to be a pathologic liar and manipulator. Painted!Renoir is at least honest in his killing, Verso is just an absolute psychopath leading people deliberately to their own deaths.

Nah, I don’t think she is real. I think she’s fake.

Man of commitment

Have you never dealt with a teenage girl? They're always doing retarded self destructive shit for no reason. A kid will eat candy for every meal if you let them.
Sometimes you need to slap the crack pipe out of the teenage girls hands instead of just throwing your hands up and going "welp, she picked to be a crack whore and die young, so I guess nothing i can do about it!"

It’s any creator god ever. It literally doesn’t matter. In this game dessendre family are gods with their own canvases with lifeforms in them, and those lifeforms are entirely at their mercy, they can do whatever they want in any way they want.

It’s the objective reality of you as a lower being, you cannot as a canvas lifeform seriously speak of your value when a god is endangered. Your existance or nonexistance is neither your choice nor your purpose, you were literally created for entertainment/learning for a child

They're clearly sentient

If they are sentient so are the characters from every game you play

And he used Lune and Sciel as jizz dispensers before he killed them. That’s a whole other level of messed up.

imagine if the canvas people went full corum (pic related) and told the painters to fuck off by sheer willpower, rage and self-determination
imagine if french people were actually good at writing

Sciel asked for it, Lune is asian

Then it'd be your average JRPG plot

If someone wants to go the utilitarian angle of saying that more lives should exist, it's actually STILL better that the canvas is destroyed, because if this canvas is saved then that's only 1 paintings worth of people born/created/restored, but if Maelle and her mom leave and recover and make more paintings normally that could be dozens of hundreds or thousands more happy people with good lives in peaceful worlds being made by them. The argument for saving the painted world as being good because of the people that could be restored there is really failing to comprehend the power that the painters have.

wtf i love japan now

Renoir will be happy and after they are all out he will just destroy the painting.

He wasn't truthful at all. He ommits huge chunks of information from them. He got lucky with E33, because only Lune saw through what a massive bullshitter he is.

Also, he never ever mentions real!Renoir's prison to any expedition until he has already escaped. The one thing that could help tip the balance in favor of the denizens of the painting. Only Expedition 60 figured it out for themselves with the power of muscles.

Or what, you will have a mental breakdown?
You rejecting your status won’t change it. It will just make you a whiny bitter bitch

unironically Ben Star the voice of Verso is also the voice of Clive in FFXVI, where the plot is some god wanted to revive his friends but needed to make some chicken nuggets first. He fell asleep and woke up to the nuggets being sentient who then proceeded to punch him in the face

you're not thinking badass enough anon
i'm very sorry, you're probably a terminal stage french

Ultimately by the end of the game, the painted world simply doesn’t matter. It’s all about the family, their existence or non-existence is irrelevant. For them to become relevant they need to be given power capable of resisting painters, so they can decide their own fate. Characters/beings without agency cannot matter

rise up and beat god!

I've had enough of that slop to the point that the opposite is refreshing.

Ultimately, you’re a fucking idiot who didn’t understand the story from the jump

There's a like a disconnect between the side content and the main plot in Act 3 cause yeah that makes Verso look like a complete psychopath. It's crazy how he can play with Lune's feelings only to turn around and murder her

obey like a dog, die like a dog

Ultima isn't even a god, he's just a lich.

it's literally the same. It's just Verso beat god to save said deity instead of the world

this is just slop of a different flavour. it may be more exotic but it doesn't taste as good.

tfw god is a french family of mongoloids

the fact that you don't want to beat them is worrying

Maelle not granting Verso death is really what is bad about her ending, it was cruel of her. The people going on about meth or the people not being real are tripping.

Why should I give a shit about the family? They’re just scripted computer programs created by French video game devs.

wouldn't that make it the opposite

at least gimme the choice you defeatist fag

opposite would be having a god beat the creations down so they know their place

the main character killing the party to save god is also kinda of the opposite too

but Verso didn't fight the party, just Paintress Jr.

but he still killed the party

I hope the DLC is actually interesting instead of 100 more fights in the endless tower or some random side quest that doesn't matter

Yes, canvas are just the matrix in this game. Looks real but it's all fake in the end

People in the Matrix were also able to have children.

Clea is just pragmatic to the extreme. She has no tact, but she's not hateful.

Renior's painting of her is the axon with an entire city on its back. She's the only one keeping her family from getting btfo'd further by the writers

calls her parents by her first names

kills paintedClea and axonClea ultimately not helping anyone

I am pretty damn sure she's hateful

People in the matrix are also actual people, you fucking idiot

I thought story started with an imposing giant in a distance dictating the life and death of everyone, and they resisted trying to win their lives and agency, but none of it mattered, as one of those gods had to be among them for anything to happen, and generally the whole thing was nothing but a family dispute between a husband and a wife
Hell the only painted being with agency is verso, and he sided with the gods that decided you must cease to exist

The point of the story? It completely changed the moment gods were revealed, it changed from humanity’s resistance to godly and ungodly beings to a family drama, because family drama of gods matters more than existential struggles of their creations, in fact that family drama defines their struggles

she's not a fan of either parent's fanfiction of her. aline painted an unrealistic loving doting version of her and renior projected his guilty conscience and made her a beast of burden carrying the family where he cannot

She's not having any of her parents' bullshit. Just popped into the painting to take herself out of their game and accelerate an end to the conflict.

adding on to this aline's version is particularly offensive. she's painting the daughter she wish she had, not accepting clea as who she is

utilitarian freak
kill yourself

something i don't see mentioned much is the little verso boy fragment that's being forced to continue painting.

He's been doing this for 67 years and he clearly wants to stop (responds to Verso's question and takes his hand). Maelle's ending condemns him to continued slavery. Out of all beings the Verso soul remnant has the most right out of any of them to decide the fate of the painting, not Maelle or Renoir or fake-Verso.

Someone post the "the happiness in the world increased" meme

Not truly sentient/conscious, depends on others to make that choice for him

Unlike the paintings

There are no people in Lumiere

do you want to stop painting

nods

i think you just made that up

this is just wrong

he's not totally wrong. in the end someone is getting the shit end of the stick no matter what.

the tiny shard of a lost soul has less worth the community of human beings in fantasy france
don't leave omelas you retards

true-verso's soul trapped in endless slavery to continue painting

Alicia killing herself by remaining in the painting will effectively destroy what remains of Renoir and Aline's psyche after what happened to Verso/between each other and will likely incapacitate them

Meaning instead of the four of them versus the Writers, it's just Clea

all of the Dessendre family are capable of effectively creating and giving life to countless new lives if they continue to paint Canvas's, which they no longer will sans Clea.

the Lumiere Canvas will likely deteriorate or be destroyed once Alicia goes insane/dies

Verso's ending is the necessary ending and Maelle's is temporarily wish fulfilling but is going to lead to ruin.

It has no capacity to make a choice. Verso is dead, that’s a crumb of him.

No, unless by people you just mean crowd. They’re not human beings.

the soul fragment is a child. You can easily convince it of anything - "do you want to continue having fun painting? or kill millions of innocent people painfully as they're torn limb from limb"

Live

Looks like Clea is gonna have to head the Painter's council herself and start her own family. Her mini Cleas will conquer the world and hang every last writer.

that Painter's name?
Adolf Hitler

if you believe in the value of future lives like a longtermist utilitarian then yeah actually you're right.

Very unlikely this is the first time they erased a canvas
It’s just not a big deal

Maelle is at fault for both endings.

The entire reason the Canvas is at danger of being wiped is because Renoir knows if he doesn't then Maelle (and likely Aline) will kill themselves by spending all their time in the painting. Literally all Alicia had to do is compromise on regular visits to the canvas instead of full sending it. Renoir has no issue with the Canvas itself just Aline and Maelle being absolute fuckwits so he's left without options besides erasing it or 'just let your wife and daughter die lol'

a single genocide is a tragedy. a hundred genocides is a statistic.