Levels, strategy and skills are all state of mind. Just press the magical button to win!

one of the bullshit in this game is that if the enemy is like 10 levels ahead of you he can take like 8 turns in a row before you can take yours. so much for ''turn'' based

We're at the point where even gaming journos learned everything they know about vidya from youtubers.

Levels, strategy and skills are all state of mind. Just press the magical button to win!

Spoken like someone who didn't play the game. Parrying is the "win more" or "this is my last chance of turning this battle around", high risk high reward move

aw man I miss the good old games when games were so deep and skillfull

you had spam X well fighting the same mobs for hours picking the attack move over and over until a number was high enough for the game to say: alright you did that long enough, enjoy the rest of the game

Faggot

well bro, it is 4 niggas versus 1, it is only fair they take multiple turns

But think of all the awesome parrying you can do in those 8 turns!

if the enemy is like 10 levels ahead of you he can take like 8 turns

why are you typing like a white woman?

do people prefer to leave it to classical RNG dice rolls instead of a skill based system?

Underleveled has almost always been "a state of mind."
9 times out of 10, "forced grinding" is just another way of saying "I don't use buffs, debuffs or consumables."

Diapers are for on your rape babies not your forehead. Thats where the dot to connect to aliens is suppose to be. How many girls have you forced? Did you at least beat obscure?

maybe because i am exactly that?

I didnt play that game but that sounds identical to Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga.

It's governed by your speed, just slap a bunch of speed increasing pictos if you find that annoying

worked for TTYD?

it's funny how anyone that complains about grinding in RPGs immediately outs themselves as a shitter without realizing it

lol

JRPG = four niggas in a row

but clair obscur only has 3 niggas in a row therefore it fails to qualify as a jrpg

Globohomoists are rebranding it to four pajeets in MMMM foursome.

Xenoblade isn't a jrpg then

You don't have to be Japanese to develop a JRPG, it's just a descriptor

tits or gtfo

same reason people call Sekiro a souls-like despite not having souls gameplay. They're retards who only know things in the simplest veneer of sub genres, especially egregious since most of them don't even know what the genres actually are

le grind

Have you thought about not being shit?

9 times out of 10, "forced grinding" is just another way of saying "I don't use buffs, debuffs or consumables."

Dunkey said this about Dragon Quest
one of many reasons he's a fag

Shut the fuck up, JRPG is Japanese RPG. Don't give us any of that semantics bullshit.

Nintendo did this with Mario RPGs 20 years ago.

Why are you typing like a brown jeet?

So you get 8 parry attacks if you are good?

If an Italian bistro isn't run by Italians it stops being Italian

Okay buddy

but the fun of RPGs is overlevelling so you can curbstomp everything

nah, nigga, you are wrong and straight up bussin', yo

I like something like SMT where you have a wide variety of options to negate enemy attacks you can plan around

I don't dislike E33 but feels like you're only engaging in half a system, the rest of time it's mesmerizing timings, which isn't necessarily bad but it's not as interesting.

and you can still do that in Ex 33, you gain a crazy amount of power through levelling especially with some of the skills later into the selection.
But at the same time, you can go out of your way to beat difficult enemies before intended just by being good.

name 3 JRPGs that do that, because i don't think i've ever seen that mechanic outside of MMOs.

Chances are if you are underleveled you're not doing much side content and don't have op 1000+ speed pictos and even then you have 3 characters to gear up plus consider the other pictos you might need

my maelle with 100% crit rate weapon build just nukes everything anyway

Even in games with harsh level scaling like pre Vengeance SMT V people still pull off low level runs with additional masochistic self imposed challenges on top. Turns out building a team and executing a consistent strategy that holds up to rng is actually a skill.

The Xenoblades do this. But you can mitigate a lot of the difference in level with skills to boost accuracy and lock down enemies.

It’s not turn based so no, Xenocringe is not a JRPG.

It ostensibly functions like an ATB game.

Atb was shit and Xeno is a single player mmo.

why do retards always try to redefine JRPG in a way that excludes some of the biggest names in the genre, like the entire fucking Tales franchise, Star Ocean, or the Mana games?

ELDEN RING HAS HIGH SKILL CEILING

you can defeat any enemy with rusty broken sword as sl lvl 1 because you pressed two buttons correctly - parry/roll

Lel

Action games are not RPGs just because you stick a stat system on them.

semantic arguing

The majority of Atlus' RPGs outside of purseowner do this to different degrees. At it's worst if you're more than a couple levels below you just get absolutely fucked. Though I suppose it's unfair to count all the different branching series as different games

ctrl f

"paper mario"

zero results

exit thread loudly.

Tendie seethe

Not the first game to have an active reaction system. Even in Mario games, Super Mario RPG had it earlier

Didn't the Mario RPGs start doing this like... over 30 years ago?

see most intelligent nintendo fan

Oh damn, guess expedition 33 isn't an RPG then since it has timing based combat.

strategy and skills

Honestly, Anon, there's not a whole lot of those in JRPGs, and this is coming from someone who loves the genre.

cope snoy, paper mario is the best RPG ever made much better than your cinematic french slop

Honestly yeah if I'm in the mood for it. Leaving aspects to chance or RNG keeps encounters from being predictable. If I can get ambushed by a group of mobs that starts the encounter by crippling a lynchpin in my party, it adds tension and reinforces that the battles are ruthless and I should be as ruthless as my enemies are, taking every advantage I can. I take big and heavy losses at times and that makes every win feel better.
I'm not always in the mood for this and during those times I play games that don't have such opportunities for bad times. But getting put on the backfoot by some RNG bullshit and clawing back with my skill and strategy feels really fucking good.

The Mario RPG games never had the timed defenses be a complete nullification of damage. You reduced damage, not avoid it entirely except for maybe a few specific attacks. Maybe try playing the games you use as examples instead of prove how flooded this shithole is with retarded secondaries?

Wrong. It uses timing based systems for an added layer of strategic depth but it’s still turn based and build and planning reliant.

What strategy does a QTE add?

so Sekkiro being a parryslop focused game means that it's gameplay has strategic depth?

...Do you not know about the perfect block mechanic in Super Mario RPG bro?

You’re being disingenuous.

mario rpg

this is fine

paper mario

this is fine

M&L RPG

this is fine

expedition 33

AAAAAAA DELETE THIS

You can superguard and nullify nearly all enemy attacks in TTYD. Maybe you yourself should play the games you pretend to be an expert at, poser retard. Get out of this thread immediately.

It took me like 8 seconds to realize its a dildo

none of the mario rpgs have very good combat though, everyone who actually plays jrpgs knows this

honestly

Opinion discarded

The Mario RPG games never had the timed defenses be a complete nullification of damage.

Your superguard, bro? Your Danger Mario build, bro?

skill = reaction time

Those people are averse to reading and making a strategy with the given abilities

If Clair Obscur had come out in the 90s, it would probably be one of the most beloved PS1 JRPGs and we'd have like 20 indie games copying the parry mechanic

I doubt any of them gaming journos have the min skill required to parry, especially after seeing that infamous cuphead video... they just parrot whatever they read normies like on social media

Happy to read that you couldn't refute any of my points. Concession accepted.

You can avoid 100% of all damage in the Mario & Luigi series of RPGs.

my perspective isnt that. i dont care about Anon Babble contrarians. what i dont understand is what makes the game so revolutionary or exceptional, when its just paper mario combat with spruced up graphics? its not even like it has the little puzzles in paper marios level design (although if it could do away with the meandering shitty quests that are a blatant excuse to pad out time, thatd be nice)
its not like i dont want to believe a new game is good, but nothing about it screams special to me. ive played a dozen jrpgs and theyre almost all the exact same.
hyperfocused on a form of combat that has been solved and is fundamentally not skilled, but barely even strategy since it relies on rng, so just do the least risky thing for greatest benefit always.
and something ive been asking JRPGs to do for ages is to have actually interesting gameplay outside of combat that isnt shitty waist of time quests with no real interactivity. add some fucking platforming, or fucking puzzles, or fucking exploration that isnt just "walk forward and occasionally check side path for potion or revive" every once in a while.

What strategy does a QTE add

Successfully perfect dodging or parrying gives you mana points for spells, while normal dodging doesn't. So you can risk by planning actions for a few turns that would require acquiring mana from parrying, while without it you wouldn't be able to chain a specific order of spells in a row.
You can also trust in your dodging ability and not cast defensive spells and instead go directly for offensive buffs.
Gustavo gains stacks for his best spells by parrying successfully.
You can equip pictos for effects on dodge, parry, and kill, and it affects your decisions. For example, you can choose not to parry an enemy and kill him with a counter, but instead dodge and let your other teammate get the kill, because they have a buff on kill picto equipped

although if it could do away with the meandering shitty quests that are a blatant excuse to pad out time

Huh?

The game is fucking impossible to lose on the 2 easy mode difficulties.

Vagrant Story already had a skill based system to overcome your own level, it's nothing new.

So the game has zero strategy or difficulty? Thanks for saving me a purchase.

why are japs obsessed with iframes

If you think this is a bad thing, you're retarded. The timing is pretty tough and challenging to do 100% of the time, and It's a very cool thing that if you're stubborn enough you can take some faggot boss down super early

If you're not limited by the limitations of your character build, it's not an RPG

its just paper mario combat with spruced up graphics?

you said it, it's this, unironically:
-no anime visuals (this deludes normies into thinking that stuff like Gustave having a roboarm that shoots lightning isn't anime) thus making the game "not-weeb" even thought it's weeb as fuck
-grimdark world meaning that it's mature
-realistic looking people and that means that the normies' monkey brains can "relate" or feel "empathetic" to the characters
-it's more movie than game so it's easy for them to mindlessly consume

honestly

I mean

anon

why do trannies talk like this? you just get your shitty passive aggressive opinion dismissed and ridiculed

games that measure skill based on reaction time are nothing but chimp games. Chimps would kick our ass at those games and according to the devs they're thus more "skillful" kek

I fucking love this webm.

I died to the act 2 boss twice :(

except its not build planning reliant, since you just parry everything and win. it's an action game with tacked on RPG elements.

Why are zoomers obsessed with being able to skill (aka: time-a-button-press) through a game?

But the character building you can do is also very fun, rare is a game that indulges the person with both functioning reaction time and an appetite for character building and strategy

no shit. And if I bought Bitcoin in 2010 I'd be rich

So you agree it's a good game?

well no not you, you're retarded you would have fucked it up some how

This, there shouldn't be any skill at all it should just be my number bigger = I win

brilliant parry system

pretty sure TTYD has super guard

It would certainly be a beloved PS1 game, but Indie devs took almost 30 years before they realized copying Paper mario was a good idea, so i don't think this would've been any different.

no, it's mediocre FOTM slop for normalfags with 0 taste

It's gonna be fun watching you get increasingly schizo over this as time goes on

Yet you agreed it would be beloved in the 90s, curious. Maybe try and hold a solid opinion instead of being contrary for the sake of it.

Passive aggressive is not addressing my points directly and instead focusing on throwaway word choices that are ancillary to my point in place of responding to the substance of my post. It outs you as a mealy-mouthed faggot who clearly doesn't like what I have to say but can't think your way through why because your brain does not have the capacity to do so.

Be Sekkiro

have parry

be loved by many

Be Nine Sols

have parry

be loved by many

Be CO:E33

have parry

be loved by many

does the normie playerbase seek parryslop? is it that simple?

impossible since these devs are incapable of coming up with a single original idea

Anon, Persona absolutely uses level as a determing stat for damage calculations. In fact, Persona was worse than vanilla V in that respect since it truly functions on a level range unlike the Vanilla V where level was just an additive value like in Nocturne. You don't notice it as much because Persona is hyper rigid in structure so the only time you ever fight something outside your level range is the Reaper an enemy you're supposed to avoid.

See you at TGA.

this does not disprove what he said

Sekkiro

I see you faggot

you agreed it would be beloved in the 90s

why do you make stuff up in your head?

never had the timed defenses be a complete nullification of damage

You reduced damage, not avoid it entirely

except for maybe a few specific attacks

huh??? so did it have or did it not it cant be both

Have you tried focusing on the audio cue? I found it much easier than trying to track with my eyes.

You can build around effects and damage on blocking in that game

never had the timed defenses be a complete nullification of damage

so you just didn't play TTYD then?

no shit.

God, you're boring

an entire essay just to insult me in the most impotent, passive aggressive way possible. Check your T levels, Petunia.

I'm parrying your arguments with strategic depth

Because le niggas in a row, le Persona/Final fantasy influence. Its really fucking dumb, game is not even anime, its made by the french, even if it has influence of japanese games, it isnt by any metric a jrpg
No one calls them wrpg, they are arpg

The biggest issue with this sort of style is it kills one of the most enjoyable bits of turn based games, Risk management. the character building becomes less engaging when half of it becomes redundant. learning an enemies attacks to minimize risk through preparation of gear and strategy is integral to good turn based RPG combat, being able to avoid all damage makes it instead "how many mistakes I can make before I die" instead of treating defensive stats like the resources they should be. Still a very good game though.

where you have a wide variety of options to negate enemy attacks you can plan around

SMT is braindead among braindead.
The game rewards you for doing the bare minimum like hitting a weakness or blocking an element.

What's wrong with this? If you're retarded, you can get by with mechanical skills. If you're old and can't cope with dodging/parrying, you can get by on knowledge/over-leveling.

If you're retarded, you can get by with mechanical skills

ah yes, the retarded community, famous for their mechanical skill.
the reality is this just makes it easier for people who already had an easy time.

The game allows you to do it too there are so many damage mitigation and effects on hit.

still can't come up with any response to my original points

just more female psychobabble

You'll never be a woman, no more free replies for (You).

But those are to override mistakes, it shouldn't be if you get hit, it should be when.

What exactly is the issue if the game is balanced around that?

I'm on YOUR side here faggot

NTA but maybe they parried your original points with strategic depth, nullifying the argument?

w-well if Microsoft invented the iPhone before Apple, it would be beloved!

so low IQ he has to copy my insults

I accept your concession.

it shouldn't be if you get hit, it should be when.

Why would I want to get hit on purpose?

it's against an integral part of turn based games.

It's a turn based game, where you take turns.

I only take turns in car games tho

Sorry who exactly beat them to the punch? No one is saying this game is shit because Mario RPGs have had reactive turn based combat. You are an extremely boring human being.

because westoids are waging a war of hatred against japanese and japanese culture

why is it called turn-based game if it makes you cringe every turn?

Thought the QTEs and Parryslop was the weakest part of the game and undermined the turn-based aspects. I have no idea why people keep trying to fuse the two. To me it always ends with the worst of both worlds.

skill is just a state of mind! just set up an invincible loadout and hold x to win!

People have been begging for a new proper paper mario game for 20 games
Shitendo keeps making sticker star rehashes, frenchies delivered what I wanted
Simple as

sovl

But unlike other RPGs that bare minimum is not the end all it's just one step in a strategy. The extra turns are not to Unga bunga it's to use support actions and support an even bigger Unga bunga. You gain an extra turn and can use it to set up a block while still attacking. Or even better you missed the attack so the turn you were going to use to block is gone now the enemy is setting up on you.

The QTEs are the only bad bit for me, I think they're needless and I get so confused when I do a move that doesn't do damage but still has a QTE.

Because at that point the game is balanced around one mechanic being incredibly powerful and downplaying the need to use other strategies or mechanics, which are effectively reduced to optional set dressing if you can just parry your way through much of the challenge or strategic choice.

Better than retarded shit like the enemy patiently waiting for all four of your niggas to perform their attacks/skills in a row. Turn timelines are, and always will be, better than that shit. That's why Persona and SMT are for braindead "people".

and I get so confused when I do a move that doesn't do damage but still has a QTE.

Anon, healing and buffing moves can also crit, QTEs make them affect more party members

It's not downplayed at all, in the early game parries are going to mitigate but won't do enough to kill anything so you will need to actually build your character to kill things unless you intentionally want to parry for 1 hour every fight.
In the late game you can go crazy with parries if you want to invest your lumina into it or you could just not

yo this Fortnite/Battle royale gameplay fire

5 minute loading

Scavange for 10 minutes

Die, 45th of 100

Quit, search next game

Lose internet access, no game anymore

yo THIS ZOOMER GAMEPLAY FIRE

I'm sure they do but it was never necessary. IMO it should've been more like the gunblade in FF8 where you just press the button for more damage without a prompt

The girl on the left has a huge cock. I've seen pictures

Because a turn-based game fundamentally cannot be "balanced around" skill-based or timing-based elements without breaking the game in half.
The core fundamentals of turn-based games are decision-based rather than reflex-based, and therefore the only way to expand the gameplay in a meaningful way is to add new dimensions and choices, which timed blocking/parrying does not.
Timed blocking/parrying funnels player choice down a singular lane. A better option might be to do things like

make spacing/positioning matter

make turn priority manipulation/action order manipulation matter

telegraph opponents' actions in some way so that players can choose to respond to them in a strategic fashion

The problem is that most JRPG devs (hell most WRPG/CRPG devs, too) don't want to have to think about how to design good encounters around these kinds of parameters, and so they pass along that lack of willingness to use the brain onto the players. This is how we get shit that is literally

spam attack to win/faceroll

press x to win/negate damage

and subsequently, how we get people claiming that the RPG genre is dead/in a slump.

yeah, it's shit precisely because they ripped it off. Every gameplay mechanic and art style in E33 is blatantly copied from existing modern games. Claiming the game would be more beloved if they went back and time and invented these mechanics in hindsight is absurd

Every gameplay mechanic and art style in E33 is blatantly copied from existing modern games

You are so fucking boring

At that point you're still building your character around the fact that parrying is going to cover you defensively while also aiding you offensively. You yourself admit this. Can you not see how that is a problem with the weighting of a game's balance when this one mechanic does so much for you?

You can beat the entire game without parrying once

Same reason manga is called that when not made by the french

Forced hate

Whoa that's crazy man, too bad it doesn't change the fact that a strategic game being balanced around a singular mechanic that overshadows many other things suffers for it.

SMT V did it but it got fixed with the VV update/expansion, I think it was using some kind of Unreal 5 preset.

Brilliant! We've discovered mechanics that mainstream Mario RPGs have popularized for over a decade!! Why don't Japanese RPGs do this??

You are so fucking boring

just like E33. HEYOH

How does it overshadow if you can literally ignore it?

Because the term JRPG is retarded when taken literally, we don’t do that to other specific genres from specific countries, no one says French platformer, German FPS, the reason people say Japanese rpg is because the way the genre developed there has different characteristics than in the west, in this sense JRPG is a descriptor of games that follow those characteristics, in this sense an RPG developed in Japan that doesn’t follow them is no a JRPG, and a game developed somewhere else that doesn’t follow them is

These arguments I'm seeing seem like non-starters considering that turn-based games only concerned themselves with strategy in a way that was always inferior to that of other games.
I'm not saying that turn-base games are inherently bad.
It's just that attaching unchallenging and one-note tactical gameplay onto unchallenging strategic gameplay is a question of game design that is simply not worth discussing.

You don't see hundreds of threads and youtube essays about how Paper Mario is the savior of JRPG every days. E33 is so astroturfed it's insane

No one is fucking calling it the saviour of JRPGs other than western journos who have ALWAYS hated Japanese games

We do say euroshmup.

Combination of low attention span and being weaned into thinking that mobile games are "real" games and in mobile games the only defensive depth you can realistically get is press the defend button at the right time."
Also in real games most zoomies think that Fromslop is the pinnacle of deep gameplay and their defense is also "press the defend button at the right time"

Are you retarded? If a game gives you 5 options, and option 3 is so powerful and ubiquitously useful that it puts options 1, 2, 4, and 5 to shame in regards to influence and effectiveness, then it still overshadows those other options even if you intentionally gimp yourself by doing a self-imposed challenge run for a playthrough.

So every JRPG ever?

This
Metaphor was my 2024 goty
E33 is my 2025 goty

Because in order to "literally ignore it" you wind up doing something equally harmful to the gameplay experience (dude just grind until there's no challenge left).
A good turn-based game should not allow you to bypass the gameplay with one prevailing tool. A good turn-based game SHOULD provide the player sufficient challenge that demands they utilize a large part of the provided kit, and consistently put the player in uncomfortable situations that ask them to make complex choices.
Giving a player the ability to gain an overwhelming advantage by doing something relatively easy will always see the player take the easy path rather than engage with other possible avenues.
Euroshmup is a set of design philosophies (shit ass unfun shmup design) and anyone is allowed to make a Euroshmup no matter what country they are from. It will be correctly identified as a Euroshmup whether they are Japanese, Indian, or whatever.

How is changing the definition so Pokemon isn't a JRPG anymore helping anything?

To the level of E33's parry? No in most cases.
Would that make your point any less stupid even if that were the case? No.

Be careful with what you say. Balancing things to much eventually leads all options to be option 3.
The faster you accept that option 5 makes you immortal and option 3 makes you into a glass canon and both are fine the faster you will see that perfectly balanced games aren’t a good thing. Defense isn’t supposed to be the same as offense, healing should be viable, buffs and debuffs should be relevant, balancing them all out together is the ideal.
The most balanced turn based rpg game ive seen that doesn’t sacrifice variety for balance is etrian, and even in that series of games people find a way to play it without a tank and healer character. There is no point in achieving perfect balance because there will always be a foo strategy. Just because Maelle is the easiest character to play doesn’t mean monoco and sciel can’t do the same thing with more setup. Just because Yukari gets all the best healing spells with an sp reduction in persona 3 reload doesn’t mean she’s more useful than Ken who is a flex healer who hits more weaknesses and has more utility. Theres many more examples like these of all kinds.

Just want to clear this up because there's been a lot of controversy, the level effect in V is not from Unreal, it was in Nocturne and a lot of games based on Nocturne (which most 3D atlus games take from). The main difference why it was so much more noticeable is actually the change to how VIT functions. In Nocturne the stat purely determined HP, but V uses it as a damage negation stat so the level calculations were going off the vit calculation. In VV the game gives more scaling to individual stats and less to level so the issue essentially doesn't exist anymore, but just want to point out it's actually a hold over from older Atlus mechanics.

Haven't played this slop but does it have a build that you don't really have to dodge or parry because it benefits you to just tank damage? Like making 1 out of the 3 niggers in the row a tank, taking damage while getting buffed up because the lower their HP the more dmg they can do or something. That would be interesting

There is a core difference between a game that is "poorly balanced" and a game that fundamentally has no balance.
Go play ZOE Testament 2173 for a fine example of a SRPG that allows you to avoid 100% of damage (even attacks that would otherwise have 100% accuracy) and never miss your own attacks (even attacks that would realistically be 0% accurate). There's literally no game left. You are given the SRPG equivalent of circle-strafing and you literally never have to engage with anything that resembles "tactics" or "strategy". You can turn off the manual aiming/dodging, but at that point you might as well go play a different game entirely, because the game's whole gimmick is "you can manually aim and dodge in an SRPG".

i don't play the game much so i don't get any rewards/gear

why can't I wreck anything much tougher than me with ease?

won't someone think of lazy faggots like me

lel

Balancing things to much eventually leads all options to be option 3.

Balancing things properly eventually leads to all options being as viable as option 3 in the big picture.

Yukari getting the best healing spells doesn't make her better than Ken who is a flex healer

It would if Yukari could also hit nearly as many weaknesses and have nearly as much utility while ALSO having the best healing spells and an sp reduction. Parrying in e33 covers you defensively and eventually becomes an offensive carry as well. It's a Yukari that also becomes a Ken.

You eventually one shot anything in the game including the superboss. Parrying and dodging is completely irrelevant at that point.

brilliant parry system

what's brilliant about it? it's just parry mechanic. could this nigger seriously not beat JRPG-styled games?

Every character or class being equally viable is not the proper way to design an rpg.
Encounter designed being balanced around each one being designed around certain things being more effective than the other is the play. It forces you to make a balanced setup that can deal with any situation. Even so it is not necessarily a cure all to design things this way. A lot of old MMORPGs had this problem were the best strategy eventually evolved to being spamming a specific kind of damage, however it only affected the game in an erratic way rather than it being the norm. The alternative was to have MMOs like WoW and FFXIV. Theres 3 roles in those games and all classes in each play exactly the same and achieve the same results with aesthetic being the primary difference.
Which do you prefer in that case? A somewhat unbalanced game or a game that is too balanced? I would prefer the unbalanced game, the MMO genre was completely ruined by WoW and it will forever stat that way as a result.

As far as I'm aware, WRPG is nowhere near as widely used of a term as JRPG, especially when outside of JRPG circles.

solves a problem

there is no problem, the problem is that you're retarded in real life there's no solution for that.
every single person that bitches about being "under levelled" ever, in almost every single scenario, is someone who's brain is non functional and they cannot execute any strategy, they cannot adapt to enemy moves, if they cannot just hit attack and sometimes heal to victory then they're "under levelled" because they're morons who hate min maxing, hate inventory management, hate equipment evaluation. french baguette game has a skill system where you find and design your own loadouts and passives, i guarantee these clowns just throw whatever bullshit on there as they get it and never once remove it all and try to do something synergistic from scratch. they operate on a "its good enough" mentality whilst simultaneously not understanding what good even is

P5 has 5 niggas

Encounter design is the only answer to the balance problem, period. Encounters should constantly be making the player wish they'd gone with a different setup (even when they retry WITH the setup they wish they had gone with) and force them to make do with what they have. If the player feels good about their team and feels in control of every part of the battle, then your encounters are too easy and might as well not exist.

It would if Yukari could also hit nearly as many weaknesses and have nearly as much utility while ALSO having the best healing spells and an sp reduction.

Not sure if stupid or if missing the point because it literally just makes her the same as Ken but better. Ken has drawbacks for all the utility he has, his SP is the lowest of mage characters, his hp is the lowest in the game, his theurgy condition is the fastest but hard to setup. Yukari was designed to be completely safe while Ken was designed to be more offensive with better utility. For a skilled player Ken is better but it doesn’t stop Yukari from being the best at what she does. When you stop seeing everything in a vacuum and lose the dps brainrot then you will understand why its a bad thing for design that every character be fundamentally the same.
Also in case you bring up episode aigis, THAT entire dlc was unbalanced but not because of ken and koromaru it was because Metis shouldn’t be able to cover 4 weaknesses with 2 of those being mitsurus and yukaris. Its fine to strike a balance but too much balance can also lead to bad things. That is the point. Character A should not be exactly the same as Character B. They should both do different things and its fine if character b does more damage but character a should excel in other things to compensate.

So to be clear, you are stating it's ONLY a problem if E33 does it?

Yes. Because I personally don't like E33, it is bad and other people should feel the same way because I'm right and they're wrong.

Here me out, what if we take a strategy genre like JRPG and make the strategy optional

Genias

While it does involve,. in essence to the word, skill, it will never come close to real time combat. You have so much more tactical and strategical elements to real time that quite honestly does not apply to turn based. Such as position, spacing, movement and to content with the different options of actions that you can perform for a specific situation. And this is all done on the spot, turn based and other games give you the time of your life to think about shit with no skin in the game.

Honestly, how Real Time Combat has never been known for it's tactics and strategy is due to a biased perception in culture as to side-scrolling games from the '90's which were in essence "hack and slash". Which games like DMC, NG, DS, ER, etc, have all done but destroyed. And I know that games like DS and ER does not have the same level of complexity as the former games.

People say that 33 is the game that "saved" turn based combat and that SE should take note, but games like FFXV and XVI has sold way more copies. DS and ER and Sekiro demolished it in sales. And we have been discussing since forever to add more action based options to turn based to give it a spark, all the more argument given that real time combat is more exciting, fun and more tactical.

What does that make FF7, 8, and X?

NTA but in my case I kinda dislike parry because they only reason not to do it is to keep Mark debuff and not waste it on a random attack that doesn't benefit from it or something. Which is like, barely situational after some point. It's more "must" mechanic than using basic attack.

I don’t see anything wrong with it. Unlike paper mario, E33 seems to have been designed with options in mind. You don’t need defensive utility or heals but the game has them. Hell paper mario had them too, they were mostly just items rather than actual skills or abilities.

I don't want Actionshit in my RPG's
I don't want RPGshit in my Action games

No more muttification, bring back having pride in your genre and identity.

Not sure if stupid or if missing the point because it literally just makes her the same as Ken but better.

Yes anon, that was MY point in regards to parrying in e33 starting as a great defensive option and eventually ALSO becoming a tremendous offensive option. Your giant spiel about that game talking about things that do not matter when I am just using the two characters to illustrate what I meant about e33 tells me you yourself are either stupid or missing my point, ironically.

No, I'm saying that most JRPGs are not as badly balanced around a singular mechanic, and if you just fundamentally disagree on that point then it is still a problem in every one of those cases, whether it be some other JRPGs or all JRPGs.

1v1 ez mode bosses or hordes of worthless enemies that pose no threat

Boring. Wake me up when there's a team based real-time game where you control the whole team directly at all times.

DMC pic

Flexing on enemies that don't have brains isn't fun after 1 hour

clown post
real time combat is sooooo strategic
except it always comes down to the exact same outcome, every single time bar none
circle strafing around the enemy iframe reactioning each attack
that's it
you can shit your pants screaming about "nooo spacing" or whatever else it doesn't matter
you circle strafe, you block, you parry, or you dodge for iframe, you mash your attack button when you get the chance
literally all there is to it, it is garbonzo. and because iframes exist, none of the rpg elements of your game matter, no equipment, no upgrades, no stats, no skills, it's all meaningless because you win just by iframing regardless of any other thing in the game

Try either using the audio cue, pure reflex by pressing just as it is about to hit (doesn't work with about 5% of animations because there is some timing-to-distance coding failure like with Miasma (when parrying with the character on the left, you have to press parry as it is halfwaythru while with the character on the right, a little later visually)), get used to it with dodging and work up from there or maybe try those defensive luminas and pictos and go for a more standard turn based experience

Nigga levels barely matter. One of the early pictos give 70 speed. Thats just one. It covers about 23 levels worth of pure speed

The difference here being that parry is a option DESIGNED to be overpowered but hard to pull off while the example I gave you were two characters that performed the same role while having different strengths within it. My example shows imbalance but not so bad that it makes Yukari unusable and Yukari is still the safer option overall. In the case of Parry however, the game doesn’t expect you to do it the game simply gives you the option as like a “do it if you can” thing, its literally just skill oriented not strategy oriented. Its the same concept as the autocombo option some fighting games have, its valid to use and makes the game easier to get into but limits your options while the traditional way to play is clearly more effective but harder to pull off and easier to punish.
I also do not understand how you think Yukari hitting 3 weaknesses and having as much Utility as ken makes them “balanced” considering the overall stat difference. You think you’re making the game more balanced but in reality you’re just making it less balanced

Then turn them off retard

Are we sure level doesn’t factor into the damage or turn speed formulas?

Anon Babble is a female dominated board, deal with it

hard to pull off

When people say it they refer to the retarded normalfag gamer. Anyone that isn't a retarded will abuse that system just after some hours of getting used to it

I laugh every time

Smash X to win

M&L Superstar did it first and better

Okay but whats the problem with that? I know people that never bothered with the parry or even the guard in paper mario, they just abused other systems either by bruteforcing it with healing or stacking close calls (aka evasion). I seriously do not see the problem with this. E33 literally still has buffs and heals, it is not a pure dps brainrotted game just because it gives players the option to play it like if it was a turn based fighting game.

Beat advice I saw was parry window is late, if you would have been hit in souls games ot parrys here, there's a soundqueue on 99% of enemies and you can parry as shit hits your model but before you take damage

Nobody is pulling it off perfectly on the first try of every single boss or enemy . Do not try to pretend thats the case with your “normie” argument.

You can do movement and spacing in turn-based as a TRPG. Even if the turn-based game doesn't have clear usage of movement on a combat grid it can implement things like the position of your party members being relevant if there's a mechanic that cares about what order they're put in or if you have a front and back row.
It's just a matter of thinking fast and slow. There isn't one that is inherently harder, but they do require a developer to know whether their game is trying to play with system 1 or system 2 thinking. An action game that leans too heavily on system 2 misses the point of the game since it appeals mainly to people who want to play a game primarily using system 1, and a turn-based RPG is the opposite.

Yes
Also my prounouns are she/them

the game doesn’t expect you to do it the game simply gives you the option as like a “do it if you can” thing, its literally just skill oriented not strategy oriented.

The game absolutely expects you to fucking parry, what kind of non-point is this? You either land it or you don't but it's not hard to get the timing down and once you make a decision on what to do you have nothing else to do but practice timing. That's one of he dumber things I've ever read. You can fail at it just like you can fail to adequately use your strategic options in a game without parrying.

I also do not understand how you think Yukari hitting 3 weaknesses and having as much Utility as ken makes them “balanced” considering the overall stat difference.

I don't think anything in particular about Yukari and Ken outside of using them as an example to juxtapose how they are two different characters who fulfill two different rolls that are not the same, and using that established dichotomy to highlight how the parry is badly balanced because it effectively fills one roll and then also another, which makes other options less effective relatively speaking as a strategy. Which is a problem in a fucking strategy game.
Why did this need to be explained to you? Did you see me also type "Yukari" and "Ken" and now you can't shut the fuck up about these characters and their games because you think it does anything for your argument? Replace Yukari's heals with the fiber from bananas and Ken's utility with the protein from broccoli if it will keep you on point and not meandering.

This is the funniest shit I've seen all year.

It's just too bad that games which actually push the genre forward filter normals so hard. Take Dragon Quarter for example. A game where every single part of what you do actually has an impact not only right now, on the battle immediately before you - but a resounding impact that you'll feel hours from now.
It even provides you with an "I win" button if things start getting too heavy, but it actually assigns a meaningful price to it rather than making it something you default to as your main strategy. If anything, it encourages you to identify when you should use it sooner rather than banking on it as your last-stand (since you'll be out of resources, more mentally/psychologically spent, and out the D-counter anyway.)
Sure, you can effectively "credit feed" the game by doing SOL restarts and grinding Party EXP, but this is a case of "you did not beat the game" since the true way to play is a "naked" 1CC (no SOL, no carrying over items/EXP from NG+, etc).

There are settings in the options as well as pictos that allow you to engage in the parry/dodge mechanic to the level you desire. No point arguing with contrarians who do so from a point of incredulity.

Parrying puts the pressure on the opponent so it's good, an actual combat mechanic since the dawn of time employed by smaller creatures versus big opposition.

you are stupid anon
here is what everyone does, spam retry on the enemy until you learn it - takes a couple of deaths each usually
then voila, you auto win
and the more you do it, the more you get accustomed to it which means the more times you first try parry shit you haven't seen before because the windows are quite generous

Okay but whats the problem with that?

the most optimal way to play the game is the least rpg way and the most boring way
"just dont play optimally" are you retarded? its an rpg, min maxing is the entire point of the genre, it is where the entire fun of the gameplay lies

failing until you succeed is not an auto win you giga retard

Pokemon factors level difference into its damage formula.

the "magical button" for parrying is a 0.15s window - good luck

Yes, it is, are you brain damaged? Once you learn the parry you win the fight, that's it, you auto win. Nothing else is required of you to progress, no gear, no stat, no strategy, no turn order manipulation, no combos between characters, which is why you auto win you clown.
If you needed all those things even if you parried, then it would not be an auto win, but you do not.
And as stated, it is not hard. The timings are not 1 frame windows, there is no movement to factor in thus no angles that alter your parry timing, it is the same every time so you will win every time after a mere handful of times learning said timing.

No it does not. Level is factored into the attacker's base damage, but there is no consideration for the defender's level.

Too much exposure to the gay chemicals. He certainly isn't ACTUALLY a woman.

You can still minmax with the parry system, retard. And your implication that RPGs are LESS RPG by including action combat is moronic. Nothing in the phrase "role playing game" indicates that everything must be menu based.

This
They're literally the same shit as random crits. If you build your entire strategy around them then you're retarded

That is true, but getting oneshot every fail is also pretty annoy

outing yourself as a shitter

It's one of those "on all levels except physical I am a wolf" kind of things.

It's an homage to Japanese gaming. No need to cry, even if it's a bit outrageous how good their first attempt is.

Nothing in the phrase "role playing game" indicates that everything must be menu based.

But everything in "TURN-BASED" does.

JRPG

Strategy

brilliant parry system

It literally removes the strategic depth

Competitive Pokèmon mogs everything posted ITT BTW

I've never had parries that felt this good in any game. It is a brilliantly implemented parrying system. This retarded "b-but it's just you pressing a button" cynicism is missing understanding of what makes something great.

Genuinely a great parry system, especially when they mix in inputs in attack strings

parry, wait, dodge, jump, parry

shoot the motherfucker in the back for five trillion damage, full mana points

You need to build some survivability too, especially if you are playing on Expert.
Because you theoretically CAN play the game without being hit once at base health and defense, doesn't mean you will. Even if you're so bad you miss half of the dodges and never parry, a healer build Lune should keep you alive long enough

Classic.

You can still minmax with the parry system

There is no point to min maxing when parry wins by itself you circus performer. Min maxing when the min maxing has zero impact and is not useful is not relevant, nobody will do it
It's the same retarded equivalent of giving you a giga weapon for beating the final boss when your game has no post game or optional superbosses, or if the reward for the superboss is equipment because you have NOTHING LEFT TO MAKE USE OF IT ON.
Min maxing is not enjoyable simply inherently, it is only enjoyable when it is useful and has impact. It does not in this game, parry especially with such a forgiving timing window invalidates every other item and system in the game

Nothing in the phrase "role playing game"

You're the same retard from yesterday who doesn't understand genre definitions evolved beyond the ordinary meaning of the words used.
Jrpgs are not "rpgs made in japan", wrpgs are not "rpgs made in the west" and rpgs are not "games where you play a role". Only low iq brainlets think this, the terms evolved to mean specific genres of games. Rpg does not mean you play a role, rpg means it is numbers heavy, stat heavy, inventory management heavy, equipment heavy, because that is the genre it represents now.

Kek

lmao