W-W-W-WHAT?!

welding lines are 3d objects instead of just textures

kill all developers

new

gamedev bait so obvious even the nodev Anon Babblegoer can detect it

dropped

Holy hell, no wonder games are 100gigs these days.
People just can't optimize anymore.

don't retopo or anything just decimate and bake!

Is that War Thunder? I won't play that game until they introduce SGB EC with huge maps.

why didn't people figure this out sooner?
we could have had good looking games on retro consoles

who cares about optimization? just spend another 4000 dollars on a new, better computer to run at a silky smooth 30 fps

store.steampowered.com/news/app/2956040?emclan=103582791474589610&emgid=545599869129067957
On the bottom of the page.

Its in development. They slap everything together and optimize later. Premature optimization increases development times to the point of never releasing. Fixing things after they become a problem is normal but many devs are getting lazy and don't do that and just say that modern games need modern graphics.

using normalmap for details

OH NOOOO THAT ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY
AIIIIIIIIE MY USELESS RTX GPU NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo

the normal map waste more memory than the vertexes removals. (unless the normal map is already used in the first model)

how are developers so incompetent?

node based interfaces

phenom ii x4

16gb of ram

what the fuck are these specs

Those are just some fucking weld lines. Why dont just use normals or textures for them? Holy shit 3D artists are some of biggest fart sniffers in the industry. Like dude nobody's gonna inspect every single crease lines and scratches. But everyone will notice performance drops! If anything scene designers should be given more control on what should be done in a scene / game overall instead of 3D modellers.

you need a tiny repeating texture for that kind of detailing, the kilobytes it takes in memory are offset by the insane savings on the vertex count. Unfortunately it looks like every weldseam in their game is a unique hand-crafted asset with a 4k albedo/normal/mixmap texture, so the game now requires 16 GB of video memory

What the fuck is this?

It's not like the tools don't exist, they are just too lazy to even try.

i think unoptimozed games are a sort of roundabout form of copy protection. if you're willing to shell out for high end hardware needed to render a game with a 1500 polygon sandwhich on a 2000 polygon plate, you'll shell out for the game, too.

Valve is the only modern dev that gives a shit

valve

modern

What the fuck have they done in modern times?

normal map

instead of tessellation

Nothing is ever good enough for you peons.

It’s not about the memory but the calculations per vertex which is O(n^2)

How fucking stupid are modern developers?

Source 2 was released 10 years ago, based on the source engine that was released 20 years ago.
Again, what the fuck have they done in modern times? Try not to dodge the question this time.

KOJIMBO DOES IT AGAI N

developer discovers normal maps

WOAH HOLY SHIT PRAISE THESE GENIUS OPTIMIZATION GODS!

ITT: poorfag cope

Doing all this shit instead of wrapping a cilinder around that mesh and baking the details

what the actual fuck

Cheaper and easier to optimize nothing, playtest nothing, force DLSS and release the game as a piece of shit.
You'll literally all buy it anyway. You don't care. So stop fucking bitching about it already.
You LOVE this shit. You love when gaming grabs you by your dirty little whore hair and pulls hard while they fuck your stretched, abused little asshole.
You live when they treat you like the filthy paypig little sluts you are.

"Ohhh no, I'm releasing another unpolished, broken, unplayable sub-30 unstable fps piece of shiiiit.... go ahead little piggy, oink oink and swipe your credit card"

Almost every game implements parallax occlusion wrong. Grass floors end up having weird bumps that don't exist IRL.

Whatever their computer is, maybe?

So did everything go towards graphics that you can use a fucking first generation Intel Core?

as time moves forward we forget the shit we learned long ago

amazing

game looks like a late PS3 title

recommended specs rtx3090, i9 7900X, 32GB memory, 500gb storage (SSD only, game will run like dogshit and crash constantly on HD) to get 29fps with DLSS and framegen on at native 240p

How do people like this even get to the point where they are making games in the first place? How can they not know that having thousands of polygons on an object is going to cause performance issues? I just don't understand

DO NOT REDEEM

Source 2 was released 10 years ago

Reading that doesn't feel right

Tris

Built with quads

stop asking question and accept that valve is BASED and gayben is GOD

i-index 2 is coming out any day now I can feel it

It's bait but... the original concept of gaming was that it was accessible to everyone, same with game design. It's seems like devs are chasing this elitist approach of pushing the highest settings possible, instead of a general benchmark of people's systems and computers which is how it should be. MH-Wilds is a great example.

In this case, they are absolutely new indie developers with zero background.

It looks like they took an extremely basic box mesh that was maybe 100 tris and then subdivided it a dozen times for absolutely no reason.

you know the end result is the exact same right?

stop being such bigots

even something as basic as normal baking is becoming a lost art because modern game development is a shitshow

just let nanite handle it haha!

New one looks like shit though. Should've just baked the old one as a normal map

yeah why aren't these guys experienced pros with 20 years under their belts already holy shit

I made a few posts pointing out the BUTTFUCK insane poly counts on the Sparking Zero models when that game dropped. I wish I still had the screenshots.

I had Mecha Freeza's model up in Blender and there were more polygons in one of his little head balls than in his entire character model in Tenkaichi 3. And he had several of them, and two more on his chest.

bakingf down is standard for AAA slop.

or, people will just, you know, not play your stupid game

Welding lines shouldn't be that fucking huge.

Have they heard of displacement maps what the fuck lol

They slap everything together and optimize later.

optimize later

This never happens.

handwaved in the name of better hardwares or artistic "fidelity"

the new welds were too cold, you can tell because of how raised up it is above the material. it will likely crack and fail

the power of black female coding.... chuddies im scared....

just nanite that shit nigga

Bad code smell

Nanite is only good for large environments. Relying on nanite to optimize small spaces just results in modern day performance.

SIX MILLION JE... POLYGONS for a fucking square rod

KILL ALL NU DEVELOPERS
FUNK UNREAL ENGINE
FUCK GODOT
FUCK UNITY
TOTAL NUDEVS DEATH

In swedish pitt is slang for cock!

700 still seems too high for a detail so meaningless and shitty as welding lines

Subdivide that shit and call it a day lmao

770

Wait a second that's still like x10 of what it needs. What the flying fuck.

insane how blender has a button that does this for them but they just don't press it

in the first place

you mean "only'

There are actually valid reasons to do this, though using so many tris for it is retarded.

One thing that modern devs don't seem to understand is that before high fidelity and realism, what catches people's attention are tricks using simpler things to make them look more complex. That's why those parallax effects from Mega Drive or Neo Geo games look much more interesting than a fully 3D recreation of the same scene, which people just take for granted and don't pay attention to what's going on.
Making something look more complex than it is by using simple elements will always be more attractive to the public than simply recreating it with a trillion polygons and 20K textures.

Yes, but one requires actual artistic talent and ingenuity, and the other can be done by Pashmer for $6.50 a week.

Pashmer is too expensive.
We bought a 3d scan library that we can use for our next 20 titles.
t. AAA company

the message combined with the incredible incompetence is just so powerful of a message

How can they not know that having thousands of polygons on an object is going to cause performance issues

Even ancient GPUs can render millions upon millions of triangles at 60FPS without breaking a sweat. Unironically, draw calls and texture memory usage are much bigger bottlenecks in modern rendering pipelines.

One of the advantages to mesh-based detailing is it allows you to re-use those things in a performant way; if you can make 30 different kinds of box mesh using the same “instanced square with generic texture” and use procedural generation to place weld line meshes, you can turn 30 draw calls with 30 diffuse maps and 30 normal maps into 2 draw calls with 2 diffuse maps and 2 normal maps and all it costs you is a few thousand tris.

The problem is overdraw; packing so many tris into a tiny detail removes the GPU’s ability to rasterize them in parallel, since each individual pixel quad must be processed serially and each quad has a huge pile of tris. Simple (automatic, even) LOD work will fix this pretty trivially though. And if you are smart about how it saves on texture memory usage, using tris in place of normal maps can be very smart, especially since getting good fidelity on normal maps for these kinds of crisp edges requires a LOT of texture resolution

You don't understand. We NEED to save that money so we can put it toward advertising and hiring celebrity voice actors.

slap everything together and optimize later

competent devs would slap something actually functional together, not that abomination

Such as?

just make a weld joint shader lol xd

just make a shader

yeah bro just increase the per PIXEL instruction count that's so much faster than rasterizing triangles, it's not like GPUs are triangle rasterization machines optimized for the explicit purpose of rasterizing triangles, we should be adding compute steps to the fragment shader

Using normalmaps like it's the early 2000's when you could be using nanite to render million-polygon welds efficiently with a 5090 with framegen

Lol, lmao. Back to the stoneage in regards to graphics? Move on, grandpa.

modern day performance

Completely unrelated to nanite. Seen any nanite in Rise of the Ronin? Most poorly optimized games today look worse than the well optimized ones.

this feels like a conversion error
it's not like you make a model that's this fucked by hand

Never underestimate bethesda's incompetence

Subdivide Sphere

SCULPT

parallax is extremely heavy effect
and shadows on parallax? either have to make insanely heavy shader, or do it from depth, or whats worse as a separate shadow map
this is literally the exact opposite from optimization

See
The problem with a normal map is that you need a texture to make it, and if you're using normal maps for object-specific details rather than generic material features, you reduce your ability to re-use textures and materials across a wide variety of object instances. This increases texture usage, and it increases draw calls, in exchange for a reduction in triangles.

The problem is, in modern pipelines, this is just as likely to be WORSE for performance as it is to be better. Especially when using per-asset normal maps reduces your ability to do modular asset building, since modern rendering pipelines can auto-instance meshes so modular placement gives you the ability to do better occlusion culling and draw call reduction.

Pic related is from some early LOD stress testing I did on my own game. The top image shows twice as many tris (since the LODs are disabled at the zoomed in view distance), over 6 million tris on screen, but at 12 FPS HIGHER than the lower image, where the tri count is almost cut in half by the LODs kicking in. The reason for this is because the draw call count has quadrupled, that alone did more damage than almost 3 million triangles. Optimization today just doesn't look like it did in the days of low-parallel rendering pipelines and hardware architecture.

this feels like a conversion error

yea, but they won't apologize. can't you f*#cking read?

That's not fair, by far the highest roi for games is the advertising budget, you'd have to be truly retarded to give the actual devs more money if your job is to maximise short-term profit

its fake you retards, the shape dosnt even match
its from Anon Babble shitpost threads, like the sandwitch and other fake models, stafield assets have pretty nice topology, you will find people on youtube spanwing like 10 000 phsyic objects and other shit for fun
starfield runs like ass since the engine is 30 years old, and the renderer isnt a mutch for the ancient code

And for further context, this is 6 million tris at 82FPS... on a GTX1070. In a development build with all the profiling tools sucking up framerate.

The idea that a "few thousand tris per object is bad" is ridiculous. It just is. It's a gross simplification of the problem. And of course this is all without any modern fancy tools like nanite.

I don't know how they made Starfield run like shit on lowest settings while Fallout 4 runs at 60FPS on highest

Looks like shit. Optimisation is degenerate.
Silly thing to spend polys on though. But only seen up close so no impact of reduced with distance.

we should be adding compute steps to the fragment shader

Yes, because GPUs are better at this than drawing triangles for over a decade now. Nvidia started shifting over to compute with their GPUs with the 8xxx series

It's not fake, it's a model that is used in inventory inspect screen. The one you posted is ingame object model.

you are retarded, why would another version of the same model have diffrent shape?

Don't need to render the world in inventory screen. So more performance available to make models look better. And will trick people into thinking the better model is what is seen in game.

GPUs are better at this than drawing triangles

Then why does parallax occlusion mapping cost like 5x the frametime as just adding the tris? POM is the ultimate case of "use shader instruction as a substitute for geometry" and it's ungodly costly, the only reason to use it at all is procedural placement of geometric insets (craters and bullet holes and the like) and even that's been largely superseded by voxel-driven modification to the environment.

take a class to learn welding

all i get out of it are little scars on my arms and carpal tunnel syndrome

didn't even get a job from it

carpal tunnel from welding

nigga are your wrists made of matchsticks

Wilds had nanite and it looks and runs like shit, RETARD

It takes no time at all to bake normals. This is no excuse.

it was probably building up for years and the welding finally made it a problem
also, yes

Wilds had nanite

had?
Did Epic sue them for unlicensed use of their tech in RE engine?
Or do you have no clue what you're talking about?

just duplicate the number of textures in the game, we can use a second one to encode light bounces and save 500 verts per object!

wtf why are modern games 600GB

nanite goes brrrrrrr

GOOD MORNING SIRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Welding seams should be a part of a texture, never actual geometry.

thread full of people who have never developed anything giving advice

kek classic dimwit moment

Show us your masterpiece then

I wish modern games were 600gb or whatever would safely fill a console hard drive. As long as none of that space was wasted on video.

HL:Alyx
CS2

Items in inventory are the same as in the world, that's why memory bug that result in some parts of items not loading properly give the same results in both, if what you said was true the results would be different because the models would be different, which isn't the case.

What a shame. Patents truly are degenerate. Reducing mesh complexity with distance isn't new. Everyone and his god thought that up.

i think unoptimozed games are a sort of roundabout form of copy protection

It is.
A lot of AAA games are making their games >150gb, with file layouts that require you to essentially completely redownload the game every time it updates, and then they release nothingburger updates almost every day.
all of these things are done specifically to make the game more annoying to pirate

I actually think textures as a whole are bad, the density of information relative to file size is terrible and they scale like shit. There's a reason everywhere except video games in the software world long ago abandoned texture-driven visual design elements and moved to SVG. I think video games made a mistake using a "pixel lookup table" approach to design rather than mathematically generated design, which is easier to scale architecture wise and which will retain fidelity across a far larger range of display resolutions and viewing distances.

The closest thing we have to using SVGs in modern vidya is using triangles, since while they can only produce flat surfaces at the very least they have a far higher degree of scalability relative to the information encoded in them. And we have the hardware to handle them very effectively, but devs are still afraid of them, mostly because of the industry's lack of technical knowledge and everyone cargo-culting around the same optimization practices that were standard in the days of the PS1.

so it'd be "chef penis"?

Guys you don't understand it would reduce the file size and give me +1000 fps if they removed 5000 triangles from pipes.
How? idk it just does okay.
They should also just use compression magic to reduce file size. How? I also don't know but they should.
I'm very smart btw.

Nanite isn't reducing mesh complexity with distance, in the same way LODs are. It's more like "backwards tessellation", where you let the GPU determine the maximum triangle density that won't produce overdraw, but instead of infilling those triangles and then using displacement maps to move them, you use the original mesh's geometric information which is streamed from disk.

every bit of talent left, leaving nothing behind for them to learn with
at the same time, (((AI))) was developed

Remember the Starfield apple

you're supposed to cover just about every part of exposed skin when you're welding, no matter how hot it gets
sweating a little is much better than always being sunburnt, or in your case, actually being burnt by flying sparks of molten metal

It's real

steamcommunity.com/app/2956040#scrollTop=0
Holy shit. 770 tris for a little bit of welding is insane. It doesn't even look like convincing welding! It's bulged out waaaay too much.

They could have gotten decent results by making them 3 sided shells. With some minor jitter that only takes a few polygons to define. Reducing the mesh down to >60. And then baking higher quality normals.

no chicken penis

You could probably get away with doing like, 5-vert half cylinders and deforming at 15-ish places along the length of the weld, which would only add up to a couple hundred tris, and then not use normal maps at ALL and save a texture lookup.

i thought "cock" meant chef in swedish

Items in inventory are the same as in the world

depend on the game, in arma 3 for exemple you can defined a model for a magazine used in the weapon and a model for how it appear when you drop it on the ground.
same thing with clothing, you can even make the model different for first person camera

cockcock

you don't even need to make it a mesh, just make it part of your texture and use normal map to create the bumps, you don't need to use parallax either for a tiny detail like that

just make it part of your texture and use normal map to create the bumps,

This is only a good idea if you are already using a normal map specific to that object, otherwise it's very wasteful. For example if you are building a large tunnel in an underwater base map, you would probably be better served tiling the wall quad over and over as a single mesh and then adding the welds procedurally to break up the sight lines rather than doing a bunch of unique welded panels with their own separate normal map lookups.

But if this were for a specific object like an ammo crate or something, especially an object the camera will never get close to during normal gameplay, sure.

They're clearly going for a realistic high quality look. So it wouldn't do to make the welding flat. I'd agree with you under different circumstances.

every bit of talent left

Where did they go?

they took the money and ran, or made their own studio and shat out something

yes, by buying the new and improved GPU for only $2000

Retirement or real software corporations making bank

15 years ago I was on this board and people were whining that consoles held PC gaming back from achieving true realism.

This is standard optimization practice.
wait till they find out about LODs

Valve had the opportunity to do the funniest thing and make source 2 compete with UE and other slop engines but they fucked it up cause they're retards.

It's cheaper to have a revolving door of UE5 pajeets than it is to have fulltime employees with decades of deep technical experience.

I legit believe people being unable to afford new consoles and computer parts is unironically a good thing for the future of optimization. We desperately need to pump the breaks on just throwing more horsepower on everything and really fucking clean house when it comes to software. The tech debt and inefficency has gotten insane.

6000 triangles for fucking welding joints

Jesus fucking christ, even 700 is too much. What game is this for? Why would anyone even care?

Warthunder

Ah, nvm.

Not really a moba fan but Valve has come up with a novel moba concept that has both Blizzard and Riot scrambling to make their own version, I think that's pretty significant considering how popular the genre is

MH Wilds and Marvel Rivals have proven that people do not give a fuck about optimization anymore now that fake pixels exist. I remember when people went apeshit over Arkham Knight's optimization at release and Warner Brothers allowed you to refund the game even if you had over 2 hours of playtime, IIRC they even took it from the Steam store for a while. Imagine that situation happening today, they'd just advertise the game having DLSS4 and frame generation and call it a day.
NVIDIA has forever ruined optimization.

Games don't even run well on console

The argument is that it's because they don't bother to even optimize the game has gone over your head.
I can run cyberpunk 2077 with the realism mod at 120+ FPS and it looks great yet a new release runs at sub 30 FPS and stutters.
Why?

Your 5090 also gets trounced by microtriangles.
GPUs are just not made to run em.

You have a 5090 right?

No, just like with everything else, from food to rent, things will get more and more unlivably expensive while people get poorer and poorer with no alternatives proposed and you're supposed to not question it while 'influencers' with free samples get to carry on the pretense of normalcy.
Who do you think buys fucking 700 euro cards? That's a month's wage for me and 400 of it go to rent.

you could just use the same texture for each panel and add one or two modeled details on top to make it difference, if you made sure your texture image allign correctly no one would even see the seems between each panels

oh yeah, like DCS is doing cockpits for their planes, it make sense for them to do that i guess

typical swedes, always thinking about cock

I love my wife Jehuty's massive cock!

the game has a very small room where it plays in. Sure games have achieved more "performance per ressource" but i think they have an excuse. Still, a 1070 as a MINIMUM is sad.

dev is actually using their brains to make the game run better

old

straight lines

has the most polygons

new

slightly less straight but still straight lines

not sub 10 polygons