Smogon/showdown

They did nothing wrong

pedogon

VGC won

trying to fix a gamemode in an inherently uncompetitive game that the devs dont even consider a real format

Thats one thing they do wrong

What's wrong with that though?

original media is still there

unrestricted formats are still there

VGC is better than Smogon in every aspect, it’s not even funny.

banned my nigga machamp after 15 fucking years because of an optional ability

frauds one and all

I don't want to play doubles and I don't want to play a mode where I can't use my whole team
Also aren't evasion boosting moves legal in VGC?

Smogon doubles is also better than official because it's not b6p4slop

to be fair there was no official format back then and they had to account for over 300 pokemon back then
yeah that ban is bs. hes slow and you can switch to a ghost type to counter him

What was it? No Guard?

ng dynamic punch was too spicy so instead of just banning no guard like other abilities they just banned machamp entirely

Dude protect lmao

qrd? what now?

memechamp

Shitmom

I’ve never played any of this stuff before. Is gen 3 fun? I liked gen 3.

Smogon doubles banned Tatsugiri because of a meme strat people figured out how to counter in the first two weeks of the game’s life

starts to ban all RNG

When already banning what counters their favorites ain't enough...

The Melee of pokemon.

if it's a shitmon then why was it banned

smogon deez nuts rofl

This post was made by Big Stall.

fuck i miss that move

I just play gen 3 ou. We have like 10 active battles at peak hours now

Murdering my poor metagross in gen 7 was all the proof you need of fairy favoritismq

Using machamp becomes being on horses, either your opponent hurts itself and machamp wins or machamp loses regardless of any input from the players. It’s not a good strategy, it simply has no place in competition

Betting*

if only he had another ability he could use instead, alas he must be banned entirely like poor garchomp

where were (You) when this fat fuck got shoved out of gen 1 S rank, destroying RBY's big three forever?

Do we even know who are in the Smogon Councils or is it still random Reddit Moderator types?

They're made by a transbian :3

So far most of it is still intact, but Finchinator already banned Snow Cloack and Sand Veil, Bright Powder and Lax Essence, and Razor Fang and Kings Rock.

Some at the council also seek to ban other stuff in the future: like Scope Lens and Razor Claw, Serene Grace, Metronome, and accuracy-dropping moves. The worst was one of them coming with the idea to remove all RNG, including low-accuracy moves becoming 100% and damage calculation becoming a constant value (which was memed in Anon Babble as "*match ends at team preview*"). Luckily, players at the forums revolted when members of the council brang these to the table and Finchinator had to back down, but some of them still insist.

Gen 9 is a shitshow jesus christ. I thought people got sick of psycho councils after 5.

nothing will ever get me to play shit ass doubles

Dynamic Punch+ Ass Vest in doubles rocked along thunder wave
Meanwhike in singlea format everyone switches pokemon every other turn and battles take 300 turns to do 45% damage holy shit smogon is fucktarted and their moderators are the most unfunny retards to curse the earth with their existence especially the women moderators lmao theyre so fucking retarted

well when you dealing with pokemon who can inflict 100% random status, or speeders who cut defense in half, of course its madness. and i love it

or at the very start of Gen6 when they were doomsaying that the new Fairy-types had no weaknesses and you had to exploit their secondary types as Poison and Steel "can't be used for being defensive types", which let to many trolls spamming the likes of Scolipede, Tentacruel, Venusaur, Gengar, Bisharp, Metagross, Aegislash and Magnezone, all these against the popular and "Unkillable" Azumarill, Togekiss and Sylveon. Tentacruel was the big winner who laughed at the whole Smogon community due to all fairies in OU being special attackers.

Why don't they have matchmaking for non-current regulations? Are they trying to avoid being useful?

they do

steel can't be used for defense

when fucking ferrothorn exists

What am I actually reading here

I think he meant offensive

lol true

steel can't be used for defense

I was saying that they said that Steels and Poisons couldn't be used offensively. My bad if it sounded confusing.

>steel can't be used for defense

for BEING defensive, meaning that they claimed to lack offense, anon

Where? I swear I've tried every button on the UI.

look at the tiers and gen list

It's speed boost blaziken all over again

Machamp makes matchups 50/50 ban him >:(

Jirachi doing the same thing, but with more favorable odds, is completely fine and it allowing any mon on your team to consistantly hax through literally any match up is fine because reasons

Machamp being for hax in a format where paraflinch is a viable strat is fucking retarded and we all know it.

OU Fairy Massacre

Ah, I remember it clear as day! It also led to the quickban of Aegislash. Also you forgot to mention Ferrothorn, that thing mauled Azumaril and Sylveon pretty hard and, although it struggled against Fire Blast Togekiss, the latter couldn't switch-in either.

I'll never understand this autistic meme where they can't just ban a pokemon+ability combo, they have to ban the entire pokemon because of some weird faux-legal gymnastics they worked themselves into, which now perpetuates itself as "precedent"

just play a gen without stall like gen 3 ou, the raping mans format of choice

You now remember that Smogon banned fucking Mr. Mime from Gen 3 instead of just biting the bullet and nuking Baton Pass altogether.

Baton Pass is kind of easy to shut down without Mr Mime. They should have just banned him from having it. But alas muh complex bans boogeymen.

I opened every dropdown, and all I see is regulation I and regulation I best of three.

Unironic and perfectly template accurate I AM SILLY, amazing.

gen wun

Greninja

theres past gens ou but not other metagames

anon she's talking about regulations, as in versions of smogon's own enforced rulesets

why the fuck would a governing body interested in enforcing rules give you easy access to bypass those rules?
go farm updoots on reddit

Can't play past gen 3 doubles

fuck my power needs to be unleashed!

I just want to play regulation H because legendaries are gay. The Smogon formats don't look appealing to me.

nobody's going to play on every little iteration of every ruleset
Most of those metas barely have any players anyway. showdown in general is dead as fuck compared to how it used to be, since the actual games have been awful so the fanbase has slowly bled away. UU hardly has any games, let alone a tiny little niche meta like [Gen 8] OU Regulation v1.1102-5-2025

none of the showdown staff are smogon decision-makers. They're not even related. Most people play smogon rules because that's what people want to play. There are other weird metas available too, they're just dead

Don't you actually lose if you do that

thats vgc you dingus

based busclops is still alive???

not in gen 3

Gen 3 explosion does half damage

Gen 3 makes it that you swap instantly if one of your pkm faints so you can't escape the second explosion

Imprison Dusclops for protect

why you telling this shit to me pussy white boy I wasn't the one asking for it

choice band explosion electrode

Diabolical

Fuck Smogon
Fuck VGC
Battle Spot Singles (3v3) on cartridge is the only good format.

>Gen 3 explosion does half damage

Isn't it the other way around?
smogon.com/dex/rs/moves/explosion/

The target's Defense is halved during damage calculation.

my mistake gen 3 explosion cut defense in half not does damage

swap fest

Am I supposed to dislike that or something? I play Gen 3 OU and knowing a 4x grass move to swampert or 4x fighting move to ttar could always be right around the corner because of hp and focus punch is FUN

Hating genwunners unironically and loving Smogon go hand in hand.
It's classic anxiety/insecurity projection that results from loving XYZ despite knowing deep down that ABC is objectively better.
Rather than admit their arguments are weak like a normal person, they descend deeper and deeper into schizophrenia until the earth is really flat and genwunners actually give two shits abut them and Smogon is a real format.

Every Master Duel survey I ask for Smogon tiered duels so petdecks of equal power don't have to fight Tearlaments or whatever the latest cancer is.

Yeah. I'm asking why they don't have it.

because they're not going to track a permanent ladder for every niche tier or ruleset that nobody plays

fucking gay where can I use this?

When is Master duel going to add a "old gen" rule?
As in, nothing released after GX or so.

Not only that but in Gen 3 only moves that hit all Pokemon on the field and not just the opponent's side won't have their damage reduced, making moves like Earthquake or Explosion that much more deadly.

And I thought that Explosion back then only ignored the Defense stat boosts.

crits do that

Sweeping Colosseum with Flygon spamming EQ with a flying companion was so satisfying.

Don't make me post the funny VGC stats.

Please don't

What stats? Pokemon usage from one of the dogshit 3DS games?

stop

They actually had it as an event. I don't know why Konami refuses to keep well-received duel events as mainstay game modes.

i'm on this list for being transphobic

I feel like no one here actually plays pvp except for showdownfags despite all of the shitflinging

Which category?

how am I supposed to play when showderp is kill?

I beg to differ.

is this the thread? I'm here for the discord raid

banned my nigga machamp after 15 fucking years because of an optional ability

Played competitive pokemon 15 or so years ago here in Anon Babble before Anon Babble or Anon Babble even existed

Tried out Machamp back in the day

Slow as bricks

Dynamic Punch was weaker than close combat

Confusion was useless because either whatever you punched either died or could switch the confusion away

Couldn't avoid Fire Blast, Thunder, Blizzard, Stone Edge, Will o Wisp, etc

Dropped the guy because it was such an overhyped meme

I know the meta kept evolving, but I can totally see myself back in the day laughing at this decision

holy shit, it's really been 15 years

Singles suck shit no matter how many bans and clauses you throw at it

idk i have fun

Fuck Paradox mons, Fuck Ogrepon, Fuck incineroar and fuck all the overturned mons in scarlet and violet

after gen 6 taught people how retarded clefable is they eventually found out it's retarded in gen 4 too and almost entirely replaced blissey for the stallblob role, and machamp dumpsters it way easier

if I must

pink stallblobs

Quintessential tranny strategy: waste your time with faggotry that requires censorship/bans to thrive in the first place.

IIRC the plan was leading with him (maybe with a sash to get at least one turn out), slapping the shit out of the other lead and then getting a free turn because most people won't risk a coin flip, then slapping the switch-in to make more coin flips or switching out to something that can setup. Pretty retarded plan but also fun when it worked just to see your opponent seethe due to poor RNG.

Is there anything like Pokémon on Playstation 1, Sega Dreamcast or PSP for me who hates Nintendo, hates fairies, wants a game without creature collecting, without competitive, without multiplayer and single player friendly?

don't respond to the bot

singles

Shit format.
The game hasn't been balanced around singles in decades at this point. VGC format is fast-paced, fun, and many issues plaguing smoshit don't exist.

no

nah its fun

why are 99% of the in-game battles in singles format then

Triple battles is objectively better than the dog shit mess that is doubles

Remember how fucking badly they wanted to ban Mega Gengar from gen 6 Ubers? Actually vindictive.

The big problem with singles is that every battle becomes a nonstop switching bonanza. I don’t love doubles, but at least it solves that somewhat.
I wonder if a switch limit would work.

Because it's a game for retarded children.

Gamefreak has recently experimented with fixing this problem which is caused by historical baggage.

switching is fun

Dude PP stall lmao

Meanwhile Jirachi makes the game unplayable and the playerbase begs for something to be done only to be stonewalled by policyfags who don't even play the fucking game. Smogon bureaucracy would make governments blush

That's why sneaky stones exist

Man I can’t wait for Pokemon Champions to come out so Nintendo can finally nuke the shit out of showdown. I mean, the player count for showdown is basically next to 0, but it just needs to be gone. Like deadass my nigga.

Why are you so mad

Switching is fine, the problem is them insisting on banning everything that doesn't take stall's shit.

i look like the guy on the left but i have sex with he guy on the right

Does anyone play any past gen OUs? Been having a lot of fun with a cookie cutter team in Gen 3 OU

I thought aussie cheesestring man revived gen 3 ou.

sounds like balooney but that's because I always lead with Frosslass back in the day
Frosslass was my chump check, she's niche enough that inexperienced people didn't know what to do and she's pigeonholed enough that I can easily tell how experienced players would react. Getting a read on how good the other player was made it easier to do reads and baits since smart moves are can work very bad against dumb players.

These days people can look at your whole team beforehand so things like these are lost

Ah yeah there's that too. FUCK team preview. Holy fucking shit what were they thinking.

I mean... I can find matches at least

Banning dynamax was indefensible, it stood contrary to everything that site originally stood for. Were playing pokemon not smogonmon

when you have more and more minmaxed clownmons that can win a game with even one turn of setup it's a necessary evil

dynamax is the worst "mechanic" in any game I've ever seen

Smogon is an arbitrary format people play competitively
It's not competitive pokemon, that would be VGC.

Smogon Singles is more balanced than VGC Doubles and it's not even particularly close. Not saying that it is balanced, just that it's more balanced.

What happened to

usage rate is not an indicator of balance

Lmao
Anyway in actual tournaments for Smogon Pokemon regularly reach 70-80% win rate anyway

So? Pokemon Romhacks are more balanced than Smogon because they actually try to balance Pokemon instead of relegating them to gutters, but you don't suck their cocks.

The issue isn't Machamp so much as it is Jirachi. Machamp on its own is a shitmon. Machamp in a ParaHax team is busted. Jirachi goes around spreading Paralysis with Body Slam and then Machamp comes in and confuses everything with Dynamic Punch. Machamp carries Payback to OHKO Gengar and ScRotom so you can't even use Ghosts to get around it.

But instead of banning Jirachi, they banned Machamp. Why? Because Jirachi is integral to countering Latias, and if you banned Jirachi, Latias becomes overpowered. Banning Machamp doesn't affect any other strategy. Banning Jirachi affects the whole meta

Jirachi 100% should be banned. Latias too.

better than megas or z crystals?

The novelty of seeing some Pokemon being kaiju-sized like Tyranitar, Celesteela, or Zygarde was neat, but also so mechanically and laughably flawed.

MUH (format i dont actually play) IS BETTER THAN (other format i dont actually play)

You guys shouldn't be fighting each other. Gamefreak is the one dumping all of these insane fucking moves and abilities and INSAAAAAAAAAAANEEEEEEE fucking POWERCREEP NIGGAS to the game

z crystals are shit tier garbage. Megas needed heavy work but what was there was fine in a vacuum.

they easily could have just banned no guard so machamp could still keep using guts. Anyone complaining about dynamicpunch with 50 accuracy is retarded

Complex bans aren't going to happen. It's a slippery slope. If you start allowing Machamp without Dynamic Punch you have to start considering shit like level 75 Mewtwo or Lugia without Roost/Recover/Rest or Marshadow without Spectral Thief.

Megas were unsalvagable they just turn every VGC season into restricted format strategy of investing everything for one Pokemon

NOOOO YOU HAVE TO TAKE THIS CHILDRENS GAME SERIOUSLY

Cope pokemon was never meant to be taken seriously, I just want to see my favorite mon clean house if that invalidates some jew council members stall strategy then tough fucking luck.

nobody complains when starcraft fans did it. Could you imagine if the pro scene was played on default maps? it'd be all terran.

An ability that sets up Trick Room in Singles.

Damn, this is pretty strong

An ability that sets up Trick Room in Doubles.

What the fuck is wrong with you

then the meta will have more slow bulky attacks to revenge kill or mold breaker to ignore it entirely lol

I'm just saying, if game freak wants people to play doubles, they need to make the games themselves doubles. it's retarded to have a "competitive" scene that plays nothing like the tutorial.

Fake news

Smogon Council quickbans Naganadel from Gen8 OU for raising popularity upon countering Cleffable (#1 ranked support of the tier at that time)

players find Nidoking (who was already mediocre at UU) as a possible counter to Cleffable

Naganadel came in with Crown Tundra. Nidoking was in with Isle of Armor which was when Clefable was the #1 Pokemon. And yes, Nidoking was used back then with just barely not enough usage to make it into OU.

Naganadel is insanely overpowered. Even then, it was booted after Genesect and Landorus. It wasn't banned because it countered Clefable (Clef could OHKO it since it's frail and neutral to Moonbalst). People even adapted by using offensive LO Magic Guard Clefable to OHKO Naganadel.

252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Naganadel: 231-273 (80.4 - 95.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

t. actually played Gen 8 OU (got to top 1,000 on ladder with a rain team)

They could probably do it if there were some way to reverse trick room

I can see it. many pokemon exist by virtue of being high on every stat only ever held back by their slowness and trick room turns them weaknessless The turn it takes to setup trick room is part of the nuance, as well as the need to build a team around getting that opportunity.

Starting turn 0 with, say, that ice horse from Galar that's got ridiculous statsand also be turn 1 the fastest thing on the board is kinda nuts.

Then ban Jirachi? Jirachi and Iron Head are what ruined the format, Machamp wasn't meta for over a decade

Fairy types have been dominating the meta since Gen 6. Clefable is the #2 Pokemon in Gen 6 OU behind only Excadrill (which is #1 for countering Clefable and spinning away hazards). Clefable reprises its slot in OU in Gens 7, 8, and 9 when even Heatran, Garchomp, Greninja, and Tornadus-T fell out of OU.

Then you have the Tapus who have dominated every gen they were in. Iron Valiant is shitting on OU in Gen 9. Flutter Mane was the fastest quickban in OU history until Regieleki dropped later in Gen 9. It also dominates VGC so it's not just a Singles thing.

Fairy is busted

summoning trick room on swap is way too OP even in singles

Game Freak knows that doubles isn't as popular. It's just that doubles is more viable for weekend tournaments. That way the tournaments don't get delayed cause of some faggot bringing Blissey or stall teams

It's not an indicator of balance. It's an indicator of overcentralization. Smogon focuses on the centralization of metas.

It would be fine on singles, you'd only get 3 turns since you still need to swap
If they gave it an extender item like the weathers then it would be pretty broken but not otherwise

they banned sand veil and snow cloak,and by extension any mons with those abilities and no alternative. Why would doing the same for no guard be different, especially when it has guts too?

Smogon will openly say “Landorus T being top usage does not mean it’s centralized around Landorus T”

No, they can't do complex bans. The issue isn't No Guard, the issue isn't Dynamic Punch, the issue isn't Machamp. The issue is Machamp with No Guard and Dynamic Punch. But they can't just stop Machamp from using Dynamic Punch or No Guard.

Yes, banning Jirachi would've been the smart move, but
a) there are a handful of Jirachi waifu-fags on the Gen 4 council
and
b) Jirachi genuinely holds the tier together thanks to keeping Latias in check. Without Jirachi, your only choice to deal with Latias would be Pursuit Tyranitar.

Machamp carries Payback to OHKO Gengar and ScRotom so you can't even use Ghosts to get around it.

lol substitute cursed body. get rekt machump.

Jade Cocoon?

gen 1 machamp isn't a problem

gen 2 machamp with dynamic punch isn't a problem

gen 3 machamp with dynamic punch isn't a problem

gen 4 machamp with dynamic punch and no guard is a problem

It doesn't seem all that complex to me.

It'd only be OP in singles if the Pokemon also got a pivot move. That's why Pelipper is currently banned from UU while Politoed is RU. Pelipper summons rain and can pivot while Politoed has to hard switch.

It'd be strong, no doubt, but it wouldn't be game ruining in Singles like it would be in Doubles.

They should go the fun route and add an ability that sets up Gravity on switch in.
Assuming that move hasn't been dexit'd already.

Gengar only has Levitate in Gen 4. Also using substitute in Gen 4 on anything other than your lead is suicide.

Nah they made a whole new Pokemon that is supposed to be strong in gravity in Gen 8 (flapple) but there’s no good gravity setters and it sets you too far behind to be worth it. A gravity setting mon would be very strong

But they can't just stop Machamp from using Dynamic Punch or No Guard.

They literally can though. The whole "no complex bans" has always been retarded. You control the meta just ban No Guard Machamp from using Dynamicpunch
This is especially retarded because of gens can do Complex bans and you don't see the world burn down. ADV has a complex ban for Baton Pass and no one is crying about that

At around an elo of 1500+, OU, I once confronted an opponent with whom we both ended up switching pokemon continuously for essentially 14 rounds straight.
I had to stop it, because I think it could've continued for another 14 more, and thankfully seizing the initiative net me the win.
14 rounds of switching in and out, continuously. No one attacking the other - just switching, trying to position themselves into an advantage.
I remember thinking, "what am I even doing?"

no complex bans

This is why Smogon will never be taken seriously.

I want to fuck Lugia

A complex ban is when you ban specific items/moves/abilities specifically for one Pokemon. Smogon generally operates on a rule that unless an ability/move/item is a problem on more than one Pokemon, they'll ban the Pokemon instead of the ability/move/item.

A good example is Gen 9. At the start of the gen, Last Respects Houndstone raped OU harder than even Flutter Mane. Houndstone is a shitmon, but it was also the only Pokemon with Last Respects, so it was quickbanned at the same time as Flutter Mane. No other Pokemon could use the move until the DLC came out and brought with it Basculin/Basculegion, and they ended up ALSO being insanely OP with that move, so Houndstone was unbanned and Last Respects was banned.

Smogon can't do complex bans because it's a slippery slope. When you start making exceptions for one Pokemon, you have to make exceptions for others. Eventually it'll end up with every tier being balanced around an arbitrary power level, and you could use Zacian-C as far down as PU so long as it's only level 55 and can't use Swords Dance or Behemoth Blade.

But just don't go down the slippery slope

Agreed, that's why they're not doing complex bans

That's fucking retarded. Unban Dugtrio already

I want Lugia to be top tier with ho-oh but its too weak with ghost and ice moves around

1. That's why entry hazards exist
2. That's why pivot moves (U-turn, Volt Switch, Teleport, Chilly Reception, Parting Shot, Flip Turn, etc) exist
3. I don't know how you got to 1500+ ELO without a pivot move or hazards

Just limit it to moves and abilities that disrupt the tier the Pokemon is otherwise played in. No fucking with levels or stats or specific sets or anything like that

Dugtrio isn't banned in any gen

I'm guessing they were both using pivot moves don't be such a dipshit just because you're on Anon Babble

Now give him back arena trap

Okay, so now you have to allow Lugia without any recovery moves or Toxic in OU. Oh, and also Mewtwo without STAB or Calm Mind. Can't forget about Ho-oh without Regenerator or Heavy Duty Boots.

you're being a retard on purpose

When you start making exceptions for one Pokemon, you have to make exceptions for others

You quite literally do not. A whole monster getting completely banned because of an ability is nowhere near the same thing as applying complex bans to shift tiers. You're purposely making the slope far more slippery than it needs to be.

You are all forgetting that in gen 4 the machamp line was the ONLY set of Pokémon that can have no guard. So who the fuck else is hurt from banning the ability?

No, they can't do complex bans.

OK them unban Snow Cloqk

No, I'm following the train of logic to it's logical conclusion.

That's exactly the point I've been making. Any other decent mon with no guard would be even worse than midchamp. No guard is what allows trolling with dynamicpunch and is also what allows it to shit on potential checks with guaranteed stone edge, neither of which is a problem with guts.

no, im a bitch ass nigga bla bla bla

whatever bro no one asked you

Machoke and Machop. Machoke is useful in Gen 4 NU, and banning No Guard from OU bans it from every tier below it.

In comparison, Arena Trap was being used with Diglett to trap and kill Heatran - to enable Stall teams - when Dugtrio got banned, so Smogon unbanned Duggy and banned Arena Trap.

Jirachi remains untouched because smogon staff wants to have sex with it

There's nothing logical about your conclusion, though. You just want fewer monsters to deal with to make your fanfic meta more predictable because you have terminal autism.

Then the problem would solve itself since pivot moves cause damage. The only way his scenario would be possible is if him and his opponent were using exclusively Teleport and Parting Shot to pivot.

machoke and machop have guts too

ok stallfaggot. im sure 400 turn games are nothing to you but for most people thats not fun

No, that IS the logical conclusion. That's the reason why Smogon doesn't do complex bans. If you start allowing Machamp without Dynamic Punch you HAVE TO allow other overpowered Pokemon without the moves that make them overpowered. There is no argument Smogon could make to argue why they're allowing Machamp to skirt by with a complex ban and not Mewtwo. Mewtwo is more popular and could be made viable in OU if you complex banned the things that made it overpowered.

Sorry you hate logic I guess. Dunno what to else to say.

why is doubles the official format by nintendo when 99% of pokemon games are singles?

I run Rain teams, not stall. The bulkiest Pokemon I use is Pelipper.

Again, banning an entire monster to the catch-all that is ubers is not the same thing as shifting between the lower tiers. The former is a big deal worthy of considering complex bans, and the latter is not. You're just too autistic to get the obvious nuance.

Probably, the two were brain damaged enough that they weren't attacking one another at all, and literally switching in and out repeatedly for 14 turns.
Electric comes up against a water switch, you respond- <- switch
Into ground, then opponent goes for ice type, you respond- <-switch
Into fire, then opponent goes for rock, seeing it, you then respond- <- switch
Repeat for 14 turns.

Because they expect the very smallest amount of knowledge from people who care about the game.

nobody said to ban dynamic punch they said to ban no guard

see
You're mentally ill, just accept it.

Same reason 2 minute time matches is the official Super Smash Bros format and Turf War is the official Splatoon format. Nintendo doesn't know shit about competitive play.

Banning 1 Pokemon doesn't affect every other Pokemon like banning moves/abilities does. There is no Pokemon worth keeping around at the cost of going down the complex ban slippery slope.

Banning No Guard would fuck over Machoke which is an important NU Pokemon. Machamp also isn't overpowered with No Guard. It's overpowered because it has a 100% chance to cause confusion while dealing high damage.

it's only a 50% chance to without no guard

You're either so autistic that you can't see anything other than extremes or you're just being retarded on purpose. You don't HAVE to apply the complex ban outside of that specific instance where the monster is being chucked into the "lol banned" tier that is ubers. Just use that logic for all complex ban decisions and there won't be any slippery slope.

That's why no one uses Dynamic Punch without No Guard. But No Guard isn't the issue. Landing 100% accurate Stone Edge isn't breaking the game. It's the combination of No Guard and Dynamic Punch on Machamp in a meta where parahax is overpowered.

I remember when Primal Groudon was allowed in 95% of ubers games what a balanced meta game that was

No, you DO have to apply the complex bans for other Pokemon. If you make an exception for Machamp because he's popular, why wouldn't you make an exception for the other, more popular Pokemon?

Seriously, what is your argument against making an exception for Machamp but not for Mewtwo? What principle? What standard? What argument could you possibly make to keep Machamp without No Guard + Dynamic Punch but not allow in Mewtwo without Calm Mind and STAB?

you only have to stop one ability for machamp to no longer be a problem, while you have to change literally everything about mewtwo to do the same

If you make an exception for Machamp because he's popular

I quite literally never said that. You're definitely being retarded on purpose. My point is that banning a monster to ubers is a much bigger deal than just about any other tiering decision, so uber bans are worth considering complex bans as an alternative, especially when it's one ability that's the cause. Mewtwo, on the other hand, is broken as fuck and will skin just about anything in OU alive no matter what you run on him.

We dont do complex bans

Wasnt snow cloak banned on pokemon who dont have it as their only ability because people want to have sex with Froslass?

He's being retarded on purpose because he's on Anon Babble. He think he's the smart guy here because he plays so much Pokemon.

You don't, actually. Just banning Calm Mind, Psychic, and Psystrike would knock Mewtwo down to OU. Its damage output and speed would be high, but it wouldn't be overpowered.

Also, taking away No Guard would absolutely neuter Machamp and it would be entirely useless in OU. It would have 0 viability. What would be the point in keeping it around then? So shitters can bring it to a battle and lose?

Just banning Calm Mind, Psychic, and Psystrike

Not the same thing as banning one ability. Why are you like this?

So shitters can bring it to a battle and lose?

Should just have a Luvdisc ban too then

one ability vs. three moves

You are extremely fucking stupid, and the reason that Hitler came to power.

He's being retarded on purpose because he's on Anon Babble

No, this is what smogon leadership acts like just about everywhere you look.

oh the horror of UUBL, truly a fate worse than banning

Nope. Froslass is still banned in Gen 4 because it doesn't have any other ability. People asked for that to be allowed but Smogon decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

I quite literally never said that.

Nobody cares.

You're definitely being retarded on purpose.

Projection

My point is that banning a monster to ubers is a much bigger deal than just about any other tiering decision

It isn't. Pokemon get banned all the time. It's not a big deal. At all. It's definitely not worth setting a bad precedent and going down the slippery slope.

especially when it's one ability that's the cause.

No Guard isn't the cause. No Guard + Dynamic Punch is. But even if it were just one ability, it's not worth doing a complex ban to protect Machamp.

Mewtwo, on the other hand, is broken as fuck and will skin just about anything in OU alive no matter what you run on him.

Mewtwo without setup moves and without STAB is just an Ice Beam and Aura Sphere machine. It gets hard stopped by any Special Wall and gets worn down by hazards + sand. Gen 4 OU could handle STABless Mewtwo without Calm Mind, especially with Jirachi in the tier.

Wobuffet.

There is no logical distinction between them. What principle do you have for complex bans being relegated only one move/ability/item instead of 2 or 3?

You can still use it in Ubers. It's not banned from play entirely, it's just banned to a tier where it's shit. What would be the difference between it being shit in OU and shit in Ubers?

And they're correct

Wow, it's almost as if there was a very good reason the draco spammers were banned in 2010. Who would've thought that bringing one down would warp the meta?

Both DPP Latias and BW2 Latios deserve spots on the banlist

No! You cant use baton pass! I can't counter it!

Yes, I agree. It was retarded to let Latias into OU, but waifufags are going to waifufag. Old gen councils are run by the exact type of weirdo that would fuck up the meta just to let their waifumon into OU, and that's exactly what happened in Gen 4 with Latias and Jirachi.

Pokefuckers were a mistake.

By your own logic, you should just outright ban Mewtwo. You're jewish, so it's pointless to argue with your fucked up sense of justification.

Mewtwo without setup moves and without STAB is just an Ice Beam and Aura Sphere machine

Are you retarded?
Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam
- Self-Destruct
- Fire Blast
Moveset 2, directly from smogon's gen 4 Mewtwo page.
Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ice Beam
- Taunt
- Recover
Moveset 3
Mewtwo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 48 Def / 244 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Grass Knot
- Trick
Moveset 4
Mewtwo @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Self-Destruct
Moveset 5

Nobody cares.

You definitely do, otherwise you wouldn't have tried saying that's what my argument was when it clearly wasn't.

No Guard isn't the cause. No Guard + Dynamic Punch is

And Dynamic Punch on its own is not a threat, therefore No Guard is the issue. Again, why are you like this? Banning one ability is not the same thing as banning moves. Smogon leadership is a classic example of "it's everyone else who's retarded, not me".

uses punishment/trump card

baton pass useless

No! No! Noooooo! Just ban baton pass!

That's literally true as of Gen 6. Fairy type is what truly broke Baton Pass since it stopped Dragon Tail. Espeon with Magic Bounce made Whirlwind/Roar not work, but BP could be stopped with Dragon Tail still.

Then Gen 6 brought in Fairy type and it was literally impossible to consistently beat BP teams. You had to rely on crits to beat it. There were people who made teams explicitly designed to counter BP that were losing more often than not against BP teams because Magic Bounce and Fairy types removed all counterplay.

I swear, Jirachi wasn't as bad prior to the Latias ban. Arena trap, snow cloak, and Machamp too. Baton pass can eat a dick tho

Honestly, the meta was perfectly fine for years. Those niggers just had to ruin it by dropping Latias and setting off a domino effect.

Yes, Mewtwo is outright banned. You cannot use Mewtwo in OU in any gen so far.

I mean

drops to NU

look at what you done!

*Latias unban

I swear they were testing mewtwo in gen 9 but I could me mistaking it for someone else

At least you have your dignity. Never mind all the other cover legends.

t. has never played Gen 4 Ubers in his life

Mewtwo with those sets isn't overpowered, but specifically tailored to matchup into the very specific Gen 4 Ubers meta game. Just like the very next gen sees Landorus-T and Ferrothorn being used all the time in Ubers with variant sets tailored around countering Ubers Pokemon, but they aren't overpowered in OU themselves.

OU would be able to handle those Mewtwo sets the same way it handles Infernape's infinite sets. It doesn't matter if it hits hard and is fast when it dies in 3 turns due to Sand + Spikes + Stealth Rock + Life Orb recoil. It'd be uncomfortable to play around for hyper offense teams, but Gen 4 OU is so far down the stall rabbit hole that that's not really an issue.

or roar. but degens would probably start passing ingrain

want to battle against people

find a forum

ERM SMOGON RULES ONLY HERE

what the fuck is that?

autistic fan made tiers and rules and a bunch of gay shit

just wanted to have fun

never wanted to battle people anymore

I've been cured

Lmao this never happened

I'd rather play VGC where I know stall sucks rather than play singles. In singles, most teams ALREADY have 1-2 stall mons and then there's the chance of fighting a faggot playing a full stall team. Oh and they also never banned gholdengo making gen 9 a retarded ass hazards format. Woo hoo, don't have to play 40+ turn games.

then play gen 3 ou. the street fighter 2 turbo of pokemon

it depends on whether you still play, but if you have scarlet and violet you can find randos to fight. You'll see a lot of obvious children with shit like Kyogre and Mewtwo with only 4 attacking moves and no setup moves and it's incredibly easy to beat them because they probably also haven't messed around with their natures or stats either.

You definitely do, otherwise you wouldn't have tried saying that's what my argument was when it clearly wasn't.

Nobody cares if you didn't explicitly say it was because Machamp is popular since we know that you wouldn't care if it wasn't a popular Pokemon. We know because you don't care that Shaymin-Sky or Wobbuffet are Ubers despite only being so because of one move and one ability respectively.

And Dynamic Punch on its own is not a threat, therefore No Guard is the issue

The math isn't working here. No Guard is fine without Dynamic Punch and Dynamic Punch is fine without No Guard. Neither are OP on their own. No Guard isn't the issue any more than Dynamic Punch is. 100% accurate Stone Edge isn't breaking Machamp just like 50% accurate Dynamic Punch isn't breaking Machamp.

The Latias unban also killed Infernape's and Lucario's usage which lead to a massive increase in Clefable's usage since the only good Fighting type left was Breloom.

Jirachi was probably still too much for the tier even if Latias remained banned. ParaHax was eventually going to be discovered.

Jirachi has always been degenerate, but you are right it wasn't as prevalent for sure. I think new toy syndrome wearing off and and the general playerbases's mentality changing just caused things to spiral out of control.

They dropped Zamazenta and Darkrai into OU in Gen 9.

If powercreep continues at the same rate as in Gen 9, Mewtwo is dropping to OU either late next Gen or early Gen 11. Reshiram is probably making it into OU in Gen 10.

Hilarious how Smogon will have 10 year old metas developing to this day but then rush to ban things 1 month into a new gen

What's the """controversy""" now?

Weavile still in OU

atta girl. slap that item off that gut

Yeah, definitely being retarded on purpose. You and many others on the OU council being like this is the reason why many people just don't want to engage with the format anymore, just remember that.

I wish there was a format not riddled with a bunch of legendaries overcentralizing the tier. Best we have is Gen 2 OU where snorlax overcentralizes things but you still have Suicune Raikou and Zapdos running around being gay

That's because it's very obvious at the start of a meta what is overpowered because everyone immediately gravitates to the free ELO Pokemon. Even then, Smogon errs on the side of not banning shit that is obviously broken. It took them years to ban Zygarde in Gen 7 when it had access to a signature Earthquake that hit Flying types/Levitate Pokemon. It took months to ban Aegislash in Gen 6. Hell, Smogon was so averse to banning Toxapex that Isle of Armor OU was Stall Central since Toxapex was the single most broken Pokemon in standard play at that time. But no, those stinky fuckers in the council wouldn't ban that bitch because they wanted to err on the side of caution.

t. has experienced every new generation's day 1 since Gen 6

They should buff old pokemon to keep up with current powercreep.

Toxapex was cancer incarnate. That shit is still allowed? You can do STAB choice band eq and it'll take 49% damage at most

But no, those stinky fuckers in the council wouldn't ban that bitch because

Because Smogon has a blatant stall bias you retard, and they rush to ban things that threaten the status quo. It has nothing to do with what’s obviously OP, if it did they would simply publically display Pokemon win and usage rates

What's your issue with legendaries? Do you have a meltie if you see Articuno?

They do. Or did, at least. They stopped buffing old gen Pokemon in Gen 8. Old Pokemon aren't getting shit now unless Game Freak wants to give them a unique form like GMax Charizard.

Back in Gens 5 - 7 they were actively buffing old Pokemon with new moves, abilities, and stat buffs. Pelipper got Drizzle and more Special Attack. Masquerain got Sticky Webs and +40 BST. Now the most they get is the same regional gimmick everything else gets.

Masquerain

Literally who? Why the fuck did they bother?

spoiler

the moment that happens will be the day powercreep really has gone too far.

They don't. They hate stall too. That's why Arena Trap/Shadow Tag are banned. Not because of offense, but because of Stall. Because Stall teams were using Duggy and Gothitelle to trap and remove the few Pokemon that could break stall (namely Heatran). There's a reason Smogon fucking LOVES Heatran despite it being slow as shit. Heatran dicks on Stall while also being useful in standard play.

IoA OU is the one time where I can say Smogon was simping for Stall, and it's more that they were just trying to be cautious.

8 and 9 had their fair share of moveset improvements, of course next to the dexited moves and dexit in general it's a case of too little too late to care about. It's fuel for romhacks to copy I suppose.

My issue with legendaries is that they are often times the over centralizing force, because they are pokemon that are intentionally given more options and stats compared to other pokemon which in turn pushes down the viability of plenty of other non legendary pokemon

Stalltwo in OU

Big stall would NEVER drop such a powerful stallbreaker. You'd have to remove taunt from its movepool as well.

Arena trap/shadow tag are banned because they remove the switch autism not because they make stall strong

They're intentionally given more stats than other Pokemon but because Game Freak doesn't allow them to have egg moves they frequently have dogshit movesets.

And we've seen how atrocious GF is at balancing Pokemon. That's why there are so many legendaries in lower tiers. Articuno, Regirock, Regice, Regigigas, Regidrago, Glastrier, Uxie, Mesprit, Silvally, Necrozma, Tornadus-I, Enamorus-T, Wo-Chien...

Not every legendary is a Tapu or a Kyogre.

more like smogay, play a real game nerd

Posts like this are really why I find Smogon such a fucking plague on this community, you’ll see someone rattle off a list of Pokemon that includes high placing tournament mons like Articuno and then say they’re all shit and Gamefreak doesn’t know what they’re doing because they’re bad in some browser game

No, they were banned specifically because they made Stall OP. The ban happened in Gen 7 where Duggy got its +20 Attack buff and made Stall OP (that and Toxapex was added to the game). Heatran was the one thing keeping Stall in check and Duggy deleted it. So Smogon banned Duggy and Stalltists started using Diglett and winning.

Trapping abilities inherently benefit Stall since it's much easier to win a 5v5 when you removed the one Pokemon that can break your Stall core. It wasn't just Heatran, either, it was Stallbreakers like Nidoking, Crawdaunt, and Excadrill that were victims.

Arena Trap getting banned in Gen 7 caused the past gen OU metas to look at Arena Trap and ban it as well. Except for Gen 3 where Stall is kept in check by King Tyranitar so Duggy isn't OP.

VGC tera ice blizzard articuno =/= smogon singles raped by rocks articuno

Articuno was successful in one tournament in the 29 years it's existed dude. One. When it was the perfect anti-meta Pokemon for the meta at the time.

It has worse results than Pachirisu. Pachirisu won Worlds. Articuno won... a regional.

dug is fine in 3 because of ample fliers that are allowed to exist without eternal pebbles ruining their lives

I should also mention that the only reason anyone even knows of Articuno's win is because it's been considered the worst legendary for so long that it was notable when it finally won something. It's the Blue Dog from Majora's Mask of Pokemon.

Because GameFreak is retarded.

VGC 2013 was peak Pokemon

Truth nuke alert. Competitive pokémon players are dweebs.

Articuno was successful in one tournament in the 29 years it's existed dude.

What is your point exactly
It is a good Pokemon NOW. Not in this particular meta, but it’s strong enough you can use it online to dick around and not auto lose if you want

Banning everything BUT Scald in previous generations when it was the single most defining factor anchoring stall. But no, we have to ban King's Rock because one mod got butthurt and led a crusade against it.

Among other reasons. Gen 3 also doesn't have that many Ground weak Pokemon for Dug to prey upon. You can try and EQ Metagross, but Metagross is winning that trade. All the levitaters/fliers + Celebi + Swampert make Dugtrio less of a threat.

But primarily it's left alone in Gen 3 because offense can make up for the 1-for-1 trade Duggy forces while Stall can't in Gen 3.

kek I forgot about the whole kings rock cloyster episode.
if we're talking about shit that should be raped from existance, Knock Off, but I know in current gen that would just help stall more than hurt it.

It isn't good now. Its usage fell off a cliff because the meta shifted in such a way it'll never see usage again unless Game Freak specifically bans like 2/3rds of the meta Pokemon for the next Regulation.

It managed to squeak by during one particular meta where Incelroar wasn't in the game and weather was bad so removing Snow was difficult. Now that Kyogre, Groudon, and Koraidon are in, as well as Incineroar, Articuno doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

Its not even a trade most of the time, pretty much all it can do is clean up on already hurt picks. Even blissey can survive from full and ice beam back. Lack of ground weakness and being forced to run band is probably the biggest of the reasons it's just good instead of overbearing.

Woah you mean the Pokemon who are good in a restricted meta are different? Smogon players are fucking retards you have no concept of the rotating formats and are basically steamchart posters but even more autistic

inherently uncompetitive game

But the whole point of Pokémon is having them do glorified competitive cockfighting.

6v6 just isn't a format worth salvaging.

Yeah, no shit sherlock, "restricted" Pokemon dunk on Articuno. Even if it weren't a restricted meta Articuno would still be dogshit. Why? Because Incineroar is back in the game.

You have no idea what you're talking about because you don't even play comp. You probably just watch Verlisify videos

For sure. Duggy is only as good as its victims are. If Game Freak somehow invented a meta where the top Pokemon were all Grass, Bug, and Flying types and no one used Stall, Dugtrio wouldn't be an issue even with Arena Trap.

Gen 3 is just one of those weird metas that aged like fine wine. Gen 4 was even better before the Jirachi and Latias unbans

Not true. Articuno won the very first Pokemon tournament.

So Smogon banned Duggy and Stalltists started using Diglett and winning.

this will never not be hilarious to me

Well you have fun playing with shit then

I wonder if people could do the same with dpunch machoke in gen 4, people would still refuse to blame jirachi for enabling it

Anyone who wants to run Articuno is going to run counters for Incineroar lol
And you’re acting like unless the Pokemon is on the top 6 team for every format over the games lifespan it’s garbage. This is stupid

Lando-T told you otherwise while it got whitelisted by Smogon Council as a constant S-Rank OU mon without a single suspect test over 10 years since its debut.

Counters for Incineroar

If only it were so easy

Stalltists

Can't stop seeing this as "Stalinists."

can't wait for pokemon CHAMPIONS to destroy that fanfic format

dude protect lmao

I love how openly biased Smogon is, when stuff like banlists are centered entirely around the narrow perspectives of the small circle of people making the shots.

Speaking of Machamp...

i remember spamming scat porn to people on showdown for two weeks straight and getting imgur links temporality banned

Incineroar has reached over 80% usage before. Way higher than Landorus has ever reached (Lando usually sits at 35 - 40%). You would think the best players in the world, playing for money, would figure out how to counter Incineroar. And yet...

why did you get such a fetish of terrifying players?

In gen 8 the council basically said they wouldn’t suspect test Toxapex or Clefable no matter what it was really funny

not really related to the thread but what happened to eletricwindgodfist was a god damn shame
he was really cool til the troons got to him

First off, Machamp is dogshit in Doubles. Secondly, Incelroar outspeed Machamp and deals 60 - 70% with Flare Blitz even against 252 HP sets. 60 speed vs 55 speed.

Also Incelroar has Intimidate.

This is double restricted format anon, you don't counter a support Pokemon and the pool of viable Pokemon is inherently extremely limited

Just wait for Crown Tundra bro we wouldn't want to jump the gun!

It was pulling teeth to get Magearna banned back then. The Council was just autistically anti-ban for everything.

Incineroarsisters, I don't feel so good...

its been figured out

VGC-sissies... are Smogonchads so much better than us at playing the game that they think Lord Incineroar is a shitmon?

Incineror on his own it's a shitmon
It's biggest claim to fame is enabling non-shitmons the ability to shine

Smogon players suffer from Blissey/Corviknight while laughing at Incineroar

VGC players suffer from Incineroar while laughing at Blissey/Corviknight

Iron valiant is one of the strongest pokemon on Singles and Iron Bundle is flat out banned

Iron valian and Iron Bundle are some of the worst paradox in VGC

252+ Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 237-280 (61.7 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (23.6 - 27.9% recoil damage)

-1 252+ Atk Machamp Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 314-372 (94.8 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

heh, nothin' personnel kid

You forgot to add

252+ Atk Incineroar Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 28-34 (16.9 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO

To be fair, Iron Bundle and Iron Valiant would be shit in Gen 9 OU if Flutter Mane and Urshifu were running around too.

I don't play either format at all but I don't like how VGC is doubles.
Also I hate the design of the weather chads and having to see them in every single match in existence would get tiring.

Iron bundle only disappeared because of restricted formats, it was everywhere before because icy wind+encore+freeze dry gave it a lot of presence

There really needs to be a Singles version of VGC.

You talking about the Genies? Because surely you can't hate Kyogre and Groudon

There is ranked singles

It's 3v3 singles and it doesn't have any bans meaning it's dominated by a small handful of overpowered Pokemon.

There's a reason no one plays it. VGC is there for those who want to earn money and fame. Smogon Singles is there for those who enjoy the core Pokemon gameplay. Random Battles is there for everyone else.

Yeah my bad I meant the genies, I should've clarified, I didn't remember at all what their trio name was lmao, kyogre is my favorite legendary I'd never hate him

Smogon won. Verlisify lost.

It absolutely blows my mind that anyone could like Verilisfy. That furry faggot is so insufferable and wrong about everything.

You're quoting him.

Tiering based on usage rates is retarded when there are >1000* (depending on availability) pokemon, something like 100+ of which are legendaries/mythicals/whatever now. The god tier legendaries will rule OU, while the ones that can't hack it will fall down to UU simply on account of there being too many mons to fit into the game. Then you have the "bad" 600 BST legendaries dominating UU, and sometimes even NU. At that point it doesn't matter if their movepools are shit. Their sheer BST advantage over everything else will cause them to faceroll everything there.

Of course Smogon won't fix it because "muh aversion to bans". But they should just carpet ban all legendaries from UU and below, since the only alternative is to legitimately bring 14U into every format and promptly be laughed at even more.

you're aware that back in 2013 and 2014 the council halved Lando-T's usage stats (and then ultimately delete them) when people started to complain that it was impossible to get past 1700 elo without a Lando-T, right?

Not the same thing. There's no real life world championship for ranked single battles, no money or fame, etc.

swords dance

substitute

substitute

substitute

salac berry

how do you respond without bringing sand?

I like that he calls out cheaters, but he is unjustifiably egotistical and overall annoying. He claims to be the best player without proof. He's only useful for keeping up with news about the games if you don't use anyone else for that and don't do your own homework; it doesn't make him any less annoying, OTOH I don't know of a pokemon youtuber that isn't annoying or disgusting in one way or another.

Priority attacks

2v2

No Incineroar bans

Better

Bait used to be believe

Why would you not bring sand?

switch to tyranitar

switch back to skarmory

protect

roar

now what faggot?

cheaters

So people who have 999 stats in everything, have OHKO codes active, illegal abilities/moves, etc.?

SHI-SHA!

This.
I fucking remember it having 86,2% usage months before XY came out, and Soggies never banned him from OU. All smogonfags ruling that shithole are like sulphiric acid burning our very eyes.

Quick Attack spam with my Mega Pinsir.

Except for Gen 3 where Stall is kept in check by King Tyranitar so Duggy isn't OP.

Not for long

No real format

Yet, all media and single player mode consider it a real format

Nobody would care for doubles if wasn't VGC

Forced formats are forced, kek. Game Freak simply don't know how to make good multiplayer games using the prime format of their games and tie in media.

Have to use all your 'tism to breed perfect pokemon with IVs, or if you want a legendary, countless resets

Have to spend hours upon hours getting the perfect EVs

Why doesnt GameFreak just let you set them before PVP or something?

Shit that qualifies as cheating from that furfag:
Using movesets that don't fit thematically (nooo you have to use body press amnesia wailord)
Genned pokemon (fair but at the same time if it's a legal result, who fucking cares)
Traded pokemon (lol)
RNG manip'd pokemon (lmao)
Changing the time on your console (rofl)
Using an "exploit" in animal crossing to make your island generate star trees to look pretty for no actual benefit (wtfbbq)

Plastering porn on your own animal crossing island and inviting kids to it is fine, though

the new games have items to max out ivs now, there's basically no real barrier to entry for comp viable sets anymore

if only it didn't take them until the worst games in the series to finally make it happen

To be fair, Lando-T made gen 5 OU a hell of a lot more bearable. Anyone who played BW1 remembers the numerous war crimes that CB and SD rock gem Terrakion committed. We were in desperate need of an answer to that monstrosity.

The saddest thing is that, as retarded as the band of monkeys who are Smogon's council are, they're at least on par with Gamefreak's own balance team.

Smeargle takes a fat shit on VGC because it can use Sketch to learn Dark Void, and use it to win games in one turn with a lucky roll

Gamefreak responds by making anyone who isn't Darkrai incapable of using Dark Void

...and then also cutting Dark Void's accuracy by 30%

even though Darkrai himself can't be used in official competitive formats because he's a Mythical

probably for pokemon trainer's to show varied strategies and sets. as powercreep and new pokemon came in this became much harder so they threw a bone and made it easier in gen 6 and later

i think majority of people used trainers to train their pokemon for competitions, while still using legal pokemon from their data

Dual Wingbeat

...and then also cutting Dark Void's accuracy by 30%

even though Darkrai himself can't be used in official competitive formats because he's a Mythical

Typical GameFreak overcorrecting

after Fairies

Ok goy.

*Chatot used Chatter*

subcurse gengar

Damn, I thought he only considered genning as cheating. He's delusional.

last point

He can yiff in jail.

click on video about comp pokemon

pretty good, they're talking about its stats and abilities, type coverage, movep-

showdown

dislike, close video, "do not recommend channel"

That or if I have to see the youtuber's ugly ass face in the thumbnail or in the video

Icicle Spear Cloyster, even better if Gen5 onwards

i still find it funny that VGC saw Miraidon as shit until someone decided to go unga bunga me hit hard on him.
If it were smogon they'll prolly ban Miraidon lul

Hell yeah shell smash and aqua jet, and rock blast. Hilarious.

they suspect tested miraidon like twice already

Yea, we kept telling VGCtards that Miraidon would be a top mon in restricted and they insisted he was mediocre.

Yes, because they're not good. Being able to double into a Pokemon gives you twice as many chances to stop the setup and twice as many chances to hit them after they're setup. You can also just focus their partner then bring the match to time and win with a Pokemon advantage.