“Making a vaccine would have killed you”

"Them fireflies were a bunch of reasonable fellers, and in my white male rage I...I killed all of them. Oh Yahweh, please forgive me"

What I can't accept is that they have actually tried to retcon it into being a sure thing

What difference does it make? It’s not as if the viability of a cure was a factor in Joel’s decision. If anything that would and him less likeable. The vaccine being a sure thing reaffirms his conviction to save Ellie no matter the cost.

Yes, how could he know it would work? That sounds fucking retarded and insane. Even if you take them at their word, how is that going to save anyone? If you can produce a vaccine or cure or whatever at the expense of Ellie's life, how will you make more? Even if you could make enough for the entire planet, or even just all of the US (lol), how would the Fireflies be capable of delivering that to all the uninfected people living in their state, much less across the rest of the country?
And if they could, what would that mean for society? Does it kill all the zombies already there? Does it rebuild all the lost infrastructure? Does it bring back society? The pre-apocalyptic government?
Joel was right to kill them, they're basically cultists. This is also why Druckmann, faggot nose that he is, made Ellie gay in the DLC and the sequel, because even if you ignore everything I just said the Fireflies stupidity is exposed with the very simple argument of

Well, why not just let Ellie at least grow to adulthood and pop out a couple of kids? Then her immunity will be passed on so if they're wrong, at least Ellie didn't die for nothing.

One more thing, it's fucking hilarious that that dumb Firefly bitch was all

JOEL YOU GOTTA LET HER CHOOSE YOU FAG

When not only is Ellie a child, she isn't even told that it's going to kill her at the time. So she's making a medically uninformed decision.
The Fireflies all fucking suck.

I think the idea of Joel being somewhat desperate is if Sarah never died but was extremely sick. So you end up with a choice of Sarah dying and letting Ellie live, killing Ellie to save Sarah or possible for not and she still dies because Fireflies didn't actually have anything and Joel loses all.

There is nothing to suggest it would've worked. Based on the events of the first game, there is evidence that the fireflies didn't know what they were actually doing.

They would have never found a cure.
Why? Because Druckmann wishes so hard they had. But He didn't write the first game. He is angry at it. He even hates it. Druckmann wishes that he could produce a work of fiction as nuanced and profound as this. But instead, all he can do is vile misery porn, where evil people triumph over good people, make them suffer, and then get away with it.
Why? Because Druckmann is a psychopathic jew who has never done anything but fight good people all his life.

Even if they could make a cure, how would they distribute it and would they distribute it? It's not like the Fireflies were that trustworthy. If you have a cure for something dangerous that it devastated the world, are you saying you would give it to people for free without trying to leverage it in some way to your benefit?

He actually did write the first game. Not even Straley disputes that. Although his first draft was cooler

As a student at Carnegie Mellon University in 2004, Druckmann was tasked with creating a concept to present to film director George A. Romero, who would select a winner. After the idea did not win, Druckmann pitched it as a six-issue comic book called The Turning, for which he completed the script, but it was turned down by an indie comic book publisher. He later revisited this idea when creating the story of The Last of Us. An early concept for the game was titled Mankind, in which the infection only spread to women; the story followed the journey of a man protecting the only immune woman to bring her to a lab to create a potential cure. The concept was soon scrapped, particularly after female Naughty Dog employees voiced their concerns, as it was deemed misogynistic.[8]

stroller

If you pay attention at all to the college campus mission in colorado you find out that the fireflies are EXTREMELY incompetent. They are absolutely just shit at what they do. When you finally find them they are hostile and try to kill you for literally delivering their golden goose across country so they are clearly evil but yet stupid for threatening Joel and not just head capping him when he wasn't looking. Their fatal error led to all their justified deaths. Joel did absolutely nothing wrong and the second game having to RETCON scenes from a game YOU played through to try and justify itself is absolute shit writing and story telling and im glad that TLOU 2 season 2 is getting creamed for what it is. The game got some passes because the gameplay is still fun, but the show has all the bad without the good so the story lies bare and plain terrible.

because it's a work of fiction and it makes contrivances to support a binary moral dilemma

actually Ellie I saved you because there was zero consequences to my actions

isn't interesting

How was Jerry even a qualified surgeon if its been 20 years since he got to practice? Is he really just doing brain surgery on the regular in a post-apocalypse where both people and resources are extremely scarce?

Was it a cure or a vaccine? Did the people who wrote this slop even know the difference?

Manufacturing would be the actually difficult part, the distributing part is over scrutinized because that just isn't that necessary. All they need to do is make themselves immune and then stroll into a city that is completely dominated by spores and clean it up in a low risk fashion. Being able to create new safe zones would be huge.

Apologize

This was supposed to be the nuance of the conflict between the fireflies and the regional government in the first game btw and is one of many reasons it is morally correct to just kill them all
Even the show is, to an extent, like that but the showrunners are too braindead and tonedeaf to realize why e.g. the scene where the fireflies are all getting screamed at by their head sheboon to just FOLLOW ORDERS or get shot when they start raising ethical and moral concerns and the audience is supposed to clap, when in reality normal people see that and go

D-damn maybe they're the bad guys after all

fireflies had scooped other people's brains out before

"YEAH BUT THIS TIME IT'LL WORK"

The Fireflies were the real zombies. Joel's only mistake was not blowing up their whole facility. That mistake led to one of their insane kids later being able to brain him with a golf club.

The show is retarded because they removed the one aspect of the injection that actually made it super dangerous long term, that people could get infected via airborne spores.

For what? She had nothing to do with the last of us.
She did write Forspoken, though.

Get to the chapter where the WLF attacks the Seraphim island

Abbey sees them engaging in highly violent battle

Sees people she's known her whole life getting blown away

"They're killing each other!"

Abbey's response is "Good."

It's so silly. Yeah, the general threatened her (over the biggest non issue ever, would you seriously point a gun at one of your most trusted soldiers because they want to spare a child?) but goddamn.

but uh...bro like uh..if they cured themselves they could uh, like uh, totally reclaim america one city at a time! totes! for sure!

I bet Cuckman really wishes he could retcon it to make part II look better.

They’d never found a case of true immunity before. The logs confirmed this. Not sure what your point is.
And anyway this is a pointless discussion since Joel confirmed it would have worked.

iirc she was the one who said that making a revenge story in the tlou setting was fucking stupid or something of sorts

.....but how does JOEL know that? It's just cope.

They’d never found a case of true immunity before. The logs confirmed this. Not sure what your point is.

That they are insane enough to scoop people's brains without immunity, showing they had no idea on anything.

And anyway this is a pointless discussion since Joel confirmed it would have worked.

TLOU2 shite should not be brought up in the conversation since that game has a shit ton of retcons to make its' plot work. The first game was pretty ambiguous if it would work and even if it did whether it would be a good choice or not because, as stated, the fireflies are fucking insane.

since Joel confirmed it would have worked

no tests were ever done, it was an experimental procedure and joel is not a doctor
cuckmann will do literally anything to make joel look bad because he hates that everyone liked him instead of ellie

Druckmann was the "Idea guy". The actual writing was done by Bruce Straley. Druckmann only had full control over the story of TLOU2, and it was painfully obvious, because what he produced there was absolutely miserable, far detached of any logic or emotional investment for anyone who experienced it.

If you kill ALL your enemies, there's no one left to seek revenge

t. based Deacon St. John

ps: dump annoying teenage brats in (alleged but never proven) slave labor camps. don't drag them with you on your adventures

neil "love your children less" (((druckmann))) becomes lead writer

youtu.be/2bEZQ00OOxY

never mind that part, how the fuck did druckmann think setting the situation up so that joel either goes to save ellie or gets thrown out to the infected completely unarmed somehow make this a 'moral dilemma'? was joel supposed to just roll over and die as the 'right' thing?

was joel supposed to just roll over and die as the 'right' thing?

According to ken levine, yeah, the idea is that (You) - that is, the heterosexual white male player - are the bad guy being speech 100'd into suicide

Reminder OP is a faggot that has been spamming this shit first years and his most recent thread was 2 days ago. Every time he gets btfo because he keeps arguing the same shit and ignores what the Fireflies do and how utterly retarded they are.

I didn't play or watch this story but how exactly can you make a vaccine for a fungal infection? I heard she has a gimped strain of the fungus, so shouldnt she be able to spread it to others the same way?

It wasn´t a sure thing, not by a long shot. The fireflies were responsible for freeing the animals that carried the original fungus disease (Presumably they were just well intentioned idiots trying to stop animal testing) so they were at ground zero. Meaning they presumably had access to samples and documentation but they were no scientists or doctors themselves.

Never played TLOU 2 so IDK if Abby´s dad was a survivor of the original development team (doubtful), just a doctor they managed to procure or even a firefly. In any case the point is that those conditions give the claim that the fireflies were the only ones that could succeed some plausibility. They probably had the best chances given the situation but the original game makes it seem as if they are basically guess working and need Ellie just to learn more.

Joel made the right call.

It’s amazing how utterly retarded that was and just lead to things getting even more retarded as the story continued. It also solidifies why he seethes so much about Bioshock 2. It’s a game that champions fatherhood and has Eleanor end up taking Delta as an influence over her retarded mother.

She ran away though, and Deac helped fake her death instead of sending her back.

neil wants us to believe Ellie conveniently forgot about the people who raised her and instead cared about Joel hiding the truth from her to protect her.
dishonest much

Her mother wasn't really retarded, she was an insane zealot intending on using ADAM to literally change the nature of all mankind so that Worldwide Communism would work in her new Christian-Communist utopia ruled over by a council of Little Sisters.

You're making a game

Hoping for fortune and fame

But, man, watching your dev team code is hard work

Slave away talking to the press

And blowing sunshine up your ass

About the plot you wrote in one night

You tell your devs to pick up the pace

'Cause you just can't wait to be showered in praise

Then your whole game leaks, still not out for weeks

And the story is whack, imagine being Druckmann

All the spoilers killed, hype you tried to build

The world thinks you're a hack, imagine being Druckmann

Imagine being Druckmann

Your team's got a streak

Of crunching sixty-hour weeks

And then the rumours of them forced to watch snuff

Dude, you can't treat people that way

I mean, that shit is not okay

You don't need for the deaths to look real that bad

You try to pretend everyone's fine,

'Cause you don't want this shit to wind up online

Now the whole world knows working for your blows

Reputation is wrecked, imagine being Druckmann

Put your team through pain while you bathe in fame

I mean, what'd you expect? Imagine being Druckmann

Imagine being Druckmann

Imagine being Druckmann

Imagine being Druckmann

Take down memes with DMCA

Even after the release day

And ban the use of bad reviews

You can't just choose reception that you get, dude

So believe me, it's this easy

To sit down and crank out more fucking memes

All your game evokes, is a bunch of jokes

It just doesn't get worse, imagine being Druckmann

From industry jock, to a laughing stock

Even Anthony Burch says imagine being Druckmann

Imagine being Druckmann

Imagine being Druckmann today

Go to the Golden Globes

Expect to be showerered in praise from peers and journalists

Strike the pose you've been practicing in the mirror all month

No flashes

No clicks

No applause

Only laughter

Walk away and

IMAGINE BEING DRUCKMANN TODAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

youtu.be/LTVbnPphUOE

man fuck Joel for lying to me

what about Marlene

who?

you know the woman who raised you since birth and promised your mom she would keep you safe before she died?

….

What would sex with Ellie be like? I imagine that under her outwardly confident and cocky demeanor she's quite timid and afraid. Her sapphic tendencies likely stem from a lack of strong male figure in her life, and so she assumes the role of a man instead. When faced with a young, virile, caring man I imagine that she would be able to let her guard down and express her feminine side. Would she blush and look away or make eye contact and pull you in? There would likely be some pain given that she's only used to fingers, but would this gradually give way to pleasure? There are many questions that need to be answered in part 3.

In many ways Bioshock Infinite, and especially BaS are pure unrepentant seething over 2 because it "didn't get" 1.

she wasn't retarded

She was a communist and also a woman. She was retarded, nigger.

The funny thing it wasn’t really Christian, it was more utilitarian. But pull back the curtain and it’s just soaked in judaic shit. Matriarchic bullshit where the mother holds the most power and the men limp wristed schemers and the women are turbo psychos.

7/10, some of the lines a bit clunky trying to get the flow but most of it works.

Unironically the game would have been infinitely better if they went to Paris and fucked instead.

the funniest thing is that the Fireflies are pretty much a video game of Che Guevara. a ruthless deranged murderer who is imprinted as a romantic revolutionary in youth pop culture.

and neil tried to retcon them in they did nofin wrong.

sure the fireflies wouldn't have done the cure but Joel doesn't know that you retards he always acted as if they could have made the cure

it's very jewish how in bioshock, christianity is always used as a subversive tool by evil huwhites to destroy glorious utopias created by autistic jewish super geniuses, or in infinite's case, literally destroys the world

yeah Che Guevara was so mean, he should have won an election to stop all the slavery and the dictatorship of Batista right, that worked with Allende, right?

That and it flipped Ken’s protagonist bullshit on its head where instead of a man who finds out he is a slave it is a slave that finds out he is a man. It’s literally about a drone being raised from the dead and then being freed in order to stop a bunch insane collectivist utopians and his individual actions shape the course of the story and how it ends.

Nothing about the definition for vaccine would prevent it from applying to fungal diseases.

list of fungal vaccines:

Infinite took Levine's view a step farther than in 1 because it was about how white, Christian (these things are inherently intertwined in terms of identity to him at least in so far as he presents them in the game) nationalism is pure evil and will one day destroy the world, presenting an alternate version of Elizabeth who becomes just like Comstock and ignites the Cold War into a nuclear holocaust.
Bioshock 1 instead is more about how Christianity, from his perspective, affects Jewish-controlled societies rather than how Christian societies interact with the world. It's all very myopic and disturbing.

Forced drama is forced. Just take a sample, lmao.

seething gusano detected

Yeah. It pretty much inverts the shitty messaging of 1, and especially in Infinite; which is why Infinite comes across dripping with loathing. Even more so than in 1, Infinite goes out of its way to scream at (You) that you have no choices, and that nothing you do matters. 2 on the other hand explicitly tries to say that you are what you do, and that your legacy is the consequences of what you leave behind, for good or for ill. It's ironic that Burial At Sea ends with not only Elizabeth's death - I won't go inot how fucking retarded that was in this post because I'll go into a whole side tangent - but but by canonizing the "good" ending of Bioshock 1. Levine is a hack.

Close to the end of TLOU1 you find that lab report about Ellie.

Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab

Isn't that basically saying her blood is full of the fungus and can grow more of it under the right conditions? So she gets a cut, or a bloody nose, or a period, splashes some blood in a musty corner and next thing you know, it's spore city?

Fungal diseases are relatively rare compared to bacterial/viral and vaccine research money tends to go to what gets press.

That said multiple fungal vaccines are in the testing stages literally right fucking now, dipshit.

Bioshock outside of 2 is an extremely jewish series. It has so many elements, characters, and themes. For fuck sake the Big Daddies are literally golems.

I show speed realized the ending of part 2 why can’t you guys also understand they were both wrong

Ellie's mother was infected while she was in labor, she's not actually "immune", she's just asymptomatic.

did you have a stroke nigger? and no, they weren't "both wrong", joel was 100% correct, blow me retard

Many such cases

That's from the shitty TV show. Her immunity is a total mystery in the game and they even leave it up in the air if she can bite and infect people.

Was the DLC of the first game greenlit before or after the original writer left? It really feels off in tone and the fact that the whole reason Ellie gets bit is because she is groomed by an older lesbian is hilariously stupid. Also not a single point in TLOU 1 does Ellie even hint shes gay aside from being a tom boy in the apocalypse?

let's go hamas!

from the river to the sea

It was written by Druckmann (who also wrote the game) before the first game was released

My wires must be crossing because I swear I remember something like that being mentioned in the first game
I don't fucking know then man, I don't think they thought much about it either.

The script itself was written by Druckmann before the game launched, who no, did not write the first game. Druckmann was in the writer's room, but he was not the lead writer at all. The DLC was greenlit afterwards. Druckmann based his script for it off of concepts he'd written for the base game that got changed or axed.

it's just something that retconned by drucky

The actual writing was done by Bruce Straley

Nope. They both claim it was a collaboration.

x.com/dimlitknightt/status/1924156296527216781
You just don’t get it

Doesn't Abby bite Ellie?

It only needed to be followed up with a few boosters…forever

Woah hol up lil nigga. Ain’t nobody reading all that lmao.

Isn't it only called The Last of Us because it was originally a Children of Men knockoff about mass infertility and humanity dying off?

You are retarded. You and everyone else who blatantly misses the point. You're so desperate for the protagonist to always be right that you run for excuse after excuse. You all disgust me.

FUCKING NIGGER FAGGOT THE FIRST GAME ITSELF SHOWED THAT THE FIREFLIES WERE GOING OFF A HUNCH AND HAVE SHOWN TO BE INCOMPETENT ASSHOLES WHO FUCK UP AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY!
How is it the fault of player if the game itself is showing "Hey, this morally grey choice is less grey because these people are insane, have done this type of experiment before on confirmed non-immune people and actually have no idea what they are looking for"?

B... but the second game and-

Fuck the second game. Restructuring and changing the events of a previous entry in a series to push a message in the sequel is bad writing.

Fireflies got no fucking infrastructure for their vaccine. Got no fucking logistics in place.

You fucking pathetic moron.

Based and factual

lol, I hope you look in a mirror later and trigger yourself, lying fuck

People are still brainfucked by Covid and forget Vaccines take decades to make.

A single sample of Ellie's brain would never have produced a replicable and renewable vaccine for humanity to overcome the virus.

Joel was right. You're retarded if you think otherwise.
And if that wasn't enough, she's his daughter. If you sacrifice your own daughter for the rest of the world, you're actually a failure as a father. Fuck humanity. Fuck you, and fuck your bullshit.
Family comes first. That's it. Kill anyone who wants to take yours away from you. Modern society is actually pathetic because it killed the family unit. Now the elite get away with raping and eating children because you're all faggots.

Joel doesn't know shit about biology or medical science why the fuck wouldn't he believe they could make a vaccine. This argument is so fucking stupid because one of the only things this series actually handled really well was the first games ending. Individualists will agree that Joel did the right thing and collectivists will argue he was selfish and doomed humanity and they're both right, it's a matter of perspective, retard.

The gameplay AND story are fun. I know the story in 2 is fucking retarded but it sure was entertaining, at least to me.

Alright Anon Babble, ignore the hamfisted, pseudo philosophic ramblings presented by this game.

All you have to do is answer one simple question honestly. Would you sacrifice your daughter to save the world?

Typically, when people speak about one matter, they try not to distract from their point by addressing another matter. For Joel, the issue is about Ellie's safety. He doesn't want to argue about whether or not the fireflies could have made the vaccine. So he's not bothering to argue that point.

Except we already had experimental treatments and tech for Covid. The Last of Us treats the disease in humanity as unknowable and extremely lethal. The Fireflies barely had any organization and trusted their "cure" to some random and somehow thought that killing the host immune to the disease would somehow produce a cure.

Joel never thought about it that deep.

Obviously not. Druckmann himself said he’d do the same thing Joel did.

You broke down in tears over wearing a mask.

takes hours to make an antidote for poisons though
it's a magic fiction ailment, the solution is magic fiction

testing stages

Meaningless nonsense. So what you admit, is that there are no fungal vaccines.

wtf i love the fireflies now?

why wouldn't i support those guys? they aren't stealing billions in tax dollars and mindraping my government. they're fighting the people that do and american support for them absolutely terrifies the establishment.

She's his daughter, you'd be a failure of a father if you killed her for the world

Cuckmann actually agrees with that. But he thinks it'd be a good thing if we were all like that, hence his

muh unconditional love bad

love your kids less

quote.

No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.

youtube.com/watch?v=psuRGfAaju4

hilariously the COVID "vaccine" even if you believe in it began in the 80's as an HIV cure. the research was resurrected in full in the 00's as a response to the first coronavirus/SARS outbreak and continued well into the COVID scamdemic. The idea that the fireflies could just magic up a cure-all from Ellie's brainmatter is such retarded cope.

"they mightve failed" is pathetic cope and even joel knows it.

listening to some black

I hate you zoomers so much I hope you get drafted to die in china

no, no I would not. Fuck the world.
another anon even made a purely rational argument that I also agree with too, which is that even if every single human being was made immune by ellie's sacrifice, it wouldn't magically undo the apocalypse.

Always find it weird when people say they mistreated Joel's character in the second game when the emotional climax of the game is a flashback of him telling Ellie that he did not give a single fuck if she was going to save the world by dying on that table, she mattered more than the entire world to him. "oh but Ellie got mad when she found out" yeah turns out this teenager who grew up in a post apocalypse would really get mad at having the choice of even the slightest chance of saving the world taken from her.

Currently available outside of testing. Which is not the same as them being impossible, which is your claim.

You have proof of your claim though, right?

I never understood that line. Doe s it mean he would not have changed his actions? Or that he regrets his decisions and would have done differently? It's unnecessarily vague and confusing. Poor writing.

We do, it's called science

The Last of Us world is beyond saving, and the Fireflies never said they wanted to save anyone, so there is literally no choice to be made.

The action "it" would refer to saving her

All you have to do is answer one simple question honestly. Would you sacrifice your daughter to save the world?

Before I had a daughter: maybe.
After I had a daughter: absolutely fucking not and I will kill anyone who gets within arms reach of her.

How it is cope when that's what is shown in the first game? Seriously, we run around this topic like it was a guaranteed thing but the fireflies have shown throughout the first game that they. cannot. be. trusted.
If their intention all along was this choice, they would've made the fireflies likable or competent, that way there is more of a dilemma to it (People still would've sided to Joel but still), however that's not what we are presented with.
Joel can think and feel whatever, but we as players, as outside observers to the situation at large, can draw conclusions about whether Joel was morally right or not, and in this case with how the game presents the fireflies, he is justified with his actions. Either the first game screwed the pooch way too hard on the narrative, or the second game retonned a shit ton to make their message work. Either way doesn't look great on Naughty Dog.

nope

because why did you (joel) kill all those other people if you didnt think it was going to work.
It's not a game for your choices, you just get to watch joel in this interactive movie.
and joel acted selfishly.

he would do the same things over again, not make any changes.

But she didn’t have a choice. That’s the whole crux of it. The situation was basically The fireflies going straight to killing her and then Joel saying fuck that and saving her. She was not consulted in any way on what was going to happen. Acting like Joel took some choice away is just retarded.

Generally when people are critiquing whether a character did the right thing or not, it is divorced from the information the character themselves knows about. It sounds like cope, but it is how analytical breakdowns of morality works in most media analysis.

I agree.
But you can't then apply your knowledge of the fictional world, especially speculative knowledge, to a character then complain about a sudden dramatic irony that does not exist in the narrative.

He doesn't, he's just expressing it like that for the sake of brevity and because he isn't an autistic sperg like all the whiners in this thread

Can I see the study?

this idea that amy henig had anything to do with TLOU has become a very tenacious and prevalent weed

In all likelihood they probably couldn't. It was at best a pipe dream.
The fact they wanted to cut open her head as soon as she got there was a red flag that they didn't really know what they were doing.

joel was being selfish for not letting total strangers murder his adopted daughter because, maybe, MAYBE, they MIGHT be able to make a cure (highly debatable)

he does not know how much cure this will make

he does not know what they will do with it, if anything, though they profess they'll save the world it's all very nebulous

the second he starts asking questions they beat him viciously, threaten to shoot him, imprison him, and try to provoke him into violence so they have an excuse to kill him

but joel is being selfish here

Even if you're the kind of faggot who thinks it is morally justifiable to sacrifice a child for muh luh gr8r gud lol there's no reason to do it in this case.

Except he didn’t, he only killed the people that attacked him or stood in his way. Even fucking Jerry picked up a scalpel and said he was going to stop him. But he didn’t shoot the assistants.

why don't we like, i don't know, try to see if she can pass her immunity on to children?

SHUT UP

b-but then we'd have multiple subjects to sample from

SHUT UP

we don't even know WHY she's immune according to our own in-game research logs

SHUT UP!!!!

It's not that weird because the actual problem is people self inserted as Joel and the idea that his actions could be anything other than wholly correct was taken as a personal attack by borderline illiterate retarded people

Joel had no idea if it would work.
At best you could have "confirmed" it would work via hack writing(Just trust me bro - Neil Druckman 2019 or w.e. the fuck the game was made). But if you actually analyze the situation and everything we know, there is no indication it would work.

Yes but all over again differently or all over again the same?

I hope the next time they remaster this shit they transform the hospital into something out of Star Trek so this midwit "moral dilemma" can be put to bed forever

Do people really need Joel to be 100% righteous here? The fact that he chose Ellie over the fate of the world is what gives the story, and Joel's character, meaning. This isn't the kind of story where you're supposed to reason out shit like "well could they REALLY make the vaccine? What about the fungus?? Was it logistically possible for the vax to be distributed?". Come on, bro.

if i completely rewrite the setting to support my preferred flavor of faggotry, that means you're the one who got owned chuddie

media illiteracy moment

whether or not it would work is irrelevant to the story

This isn't the kind of story where you're supposed to reason out shit

How else do you come to a conclusion on a moral dilemma without reasoning it out within your moral framework you fucking faggot?

npc's don't have moral frameworks of their own, you see, they need to be told what is wrong or right

supposedly druckman walked back his opinion and admitted the fireflies were fucking retarded and it wasnt as ambiguous as he originally was going for.

hindsight is 20/20 or whatever.

That means nothing when the odd of the cure actually occurring are slim to none. You can talk about motivation or intention but that doesn’t matter when reality shows it was not happening. But of course you can’t accept that, you can’t accept that and that the entire thing with Ellie actually believing him and hating him for saving her as well as that the plot of the second game is shit.

and nigerians think theres gold in bald men's head so they crack their heads open to get rich. but lo and behold, no gold! how could this happen?

the second game being shit has nothing to do with the cure working or not
the second game is misery porn for the characters of the first game but it doesn't change the ending retroactively

literal reddit post

ignores literally everything that shows it’s not possible

So are these threads just made by one rabid retard from the TLOU subreddit?

ok, it's not possible. does that change the ending?

Reddit also missing the point, Joel's personal opinions on if it would have worked are irrelevant especially to him. Joel is not suffering from a moral dilemma
there is nothing the fireflies could have said that would have mad him act differently when "ellie has to die" is on the table

because they identify with Joel
because they didn't have good fathers
because they wish they were like him
because they're simple and not too bright
etc etc

Makes a vaccine

For fungus

Complains that 10 out of the past 10 tentatives failed

But this time it will work, trust me!

Are all the videogame characters this retarded?

It does, the fucking inciting of the plot of the second game is what happened in the hospital. It does nothing but shine a light on that specific moment. Ellie’s conflict with Joel is all about it and Abby’s is that Joel killed her dad when he was going to kill Ellie.

In the context of Joel and what he thinks? Probably not.
In the context of a meta discussion whether Joel ultimately did the right thing based on information that we the players can observe and speculate on? Absolutely.

Yeah, it does, it cast a whole new light on the situation. It’s not saying Joel doomed humanity and trying to make a bunch of retards out to be the last hope.

yeah, whether or not the cure would work doesn't change what happened in the hospital. Joel killed those people and a dyke gets revenge for it. what the fuck is your point? that Ellie, a bitch who never went to school and who's highest level of reading is comic books, doesn't understand pathology?

fungus

vaccine

lmao

why did they have to do open head surgery anyway? cant they just run bloodwork and check enzymes and other crap?

the story is about a man who chooses a girl over the world. Whether he is correct in that understanding is irrelevant in his characterization

The irony of calling other people dumb while you fail to argue a point for hours. And can’t even understand basic logic or story telling.

samefagging is pathetic, anon.

but the girl is the key to saving the world. killing her in a failed attempt to make a cure seems incredibly counter productive.

are you genuinely fucking retarded?
read your own post again and think

I'm not even sure what the fuck the Fireflies wanted. Restore the US government? Yeah, good luck with that one.

if my story sucks so much that the reader is questioning the premise instead of suspending their disbelief

that's the reader's fault actually and not mine for making a shit story

lol

huh? keeping her alive seems like a better idea in all cases than killing her in hopes of figuring out a cure.

they never really say. They just, vaguely, say they're going to save the world.
And like another anon said, when joel starts asking questions they just chimp out and resort to immediate violence on him.

So you’re going to ignore context just to act like a story is an utterly two dimensional thing where themes and meaning don’t exist? Reminder you’re the faggot that cries media literacy whenever you get mad at peoples arguments.

what the fuck is your point

It changes Abby into a retarded psycho with no redeeming qualities (how most people view her already) and Ellie into an ungrateful retard that will spend years seething at someone that saved her life but not the people that tried to kill her. In short it’s dogshit writing , pure unfettered dogshit.

doesn't understand pathology

You don’t need to go to school to understand pathology. Literal downies have a grasp of cause and effect so for her to not isn’t good.

my joel did.

Considering how the things were, I bet Ellie isn't even human, she's a hybrid between humans and fungus, and probably the answer for the nature on how to deal with this massive crisis.

The ideal for the Fireflies would've been trying to replicate the same conditions which allowed Ellie to born and see if the experiment would work, with some variations on the method here and there. After the first positive results, they could improve the method, making less costy and spread around the world.

But, of course, Druckmann didn't think on that.

the story is about a man who chooses a girl over the world

Whether he is correct in that understanding is irrelevant

It isn’t given it changes how the character is portrayed in the story. Like if you present a noble paladin in shining armor and flowing locks people would think “oh here is the hero of the story” and then a caption or narration that say “here is Sir Matthew Martinson convicted child rapist and killer” that immediately changes how the character is being portrayed and perceived within the story. But this is too hard for you to understand for some reason.

WOULD YOU STILL LOVE ME IF I WAS A WORM???

...why would you become a worm, though? If you got turned into a worm, you could be turned back, so ..

but thats not the poiiiiint!

It's on you, the imperial you of course, to present your premise in such a way that the average reader can accept the framework of the question being asked. If you present it (ask it) in a retarded way then that means you're a bad writer.

Abby IS a psycho by design. All the characters are. Joel and Ellie kill hundreds of people too.
Logically, the right thing to do is let Ellie die for the experiment. Whether it fails or not, her death has more meaning than any of the hundred random niggers you kill in the game. But that's not the point of the fucking story. It's about a guy who is so fucked up from losing his daughter that he would literally drop a nuke to prevent it happening again.

It's funny how there was literally a chapter and gameplay segment where they outright said the Fireflies were incompetent and couldn't make a cure at all. They tried to retcon it but forgot you had to kill the unleashed zombie lab monkeys that they fucked up with

This is because Druckmann has self admitted that he based his writings around the still ongoing israeli pallestine conflict. In his own words, the conflicts and themes of The Last of Us as a series are supposed to be an allegory for it. The scene of Joel rescuing Ellie was supposedly inspired by a prisoner exchange where Israel traded a bunch of Palestinians for 1 Jew.
If you accept what he said as truth then the whole thing is just him scapegoating jewish aggression and the consequences of it onto white people.

it's about a characters understanding of the world, not if their shiny armor makes you assume they are a good guy. genuinely the most shit analogy I've ever read in my entire life.

Uhm logically the right thing to do is to let the small child who is immune and can pass on that immunity hereditarily die to MAYBE produce a limited cure for a few people who won't be able to pass it on hereditarily CHUD

Except they aren’t, when Joel and Tess kill it’s for necessity they’re not just slaughtering people and thinking they’re hot shit the whole time. When the fuck did Joel ever relish in the idea of killing a pregnant woman? Fuck even Ellie was fucked up when she accidentally killed Mel. Abby is a whole other fucking level. She is a vitriolic spiteful animal that the story tries to say is a victim and can be totally redeemed.

Logically, the right thing to do is let Ellie die for the experiment. Whether it fails or not

So you’ve gotten to that phase where you’re just saying fuck everything to cope with the fact you can’t argue? The right choice was to save her. Even if Joel made that choice for the wrong reason it was still the right one.

the point of the fucking story. It's about a guy who is so fucked up from losing his daughter

The point of the story is how people can move on from loss and live again. Joel literally goes from living in a blur not caring about how much time passes to wanting to actually live life again. And Ellie finally has a constant in her life. Not some transient element that will disappear and return at random.

reminds me of ken levine saying that his inspiration for the racial unrest in bioshock infinite was a video he saw while he was in school of jews beating a palestinian to death.

So you’re just going to obtusely only engage with the in universe narrative aspect of the story and not the outer elements about how the way a character is portrayed can change how the story is told and how it presents the characters and elements?

genuinely the most shit analogy

It’s not, you just proved you’re too much of a retard to understand even after having it spelt out for you.

Even if Joel made that choice for the wrong reason it was still the right one

I agree actually

The point of the story is how people can move on from loss and live again.

I think it can be both. I don't even think we see it that differently, I just think getting hung up on the logistics of that moment is a weird place to draw the line. Like none of the firefly motivation or faction makes sense. We're they just sitting around waiting for someone immune to dissect? Who cares.
Joel's decision still makes sense for him, and is the climax of the story

Interesting.
In the game, the IDF(WLF) are portrayed as bloodthirsty psychos who torture prisoners, murder children, and are so hell bent on genocide that it ends up destroying them. Abby turning against them and killing loads of Israeli soldiers is framed as a positive thing.
Quite a negative characterization of the IDF from a Zionist.

It just doesn't fucking matter you idiot. If Joel was 100% in the right for saving Ellie (which I think he was) it still doesn't change any of the other insane shit he does. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the main narrative any more than the other nonsense

Yeah. Like I said, it's just scapegoating if he's not just pulling it out his ass. His lecture in that, I think it was a VICE interview, about unconditional love and saying "parents need to love their children less" paired with earlier statements about him thinking he'd do what Joel did in the same situation makes significantly more sense if you take him at face value when he says it's an allegory for Israel vs Palestine. It's literally a jew critiquing other jews using goy fingerpuppets as scapegoats while simultaneously demoralizing goyim in question. It's gross.

I think it can be both

It can’t, it creates two simultaneous versions of the character that are incongruous. One Joel is the man who has lost so much and went down a dark path to survive but ultimately isn’t completely fucked and the other is a selfish asshole that doomed all of mankind so he can have a second chance at being a dad. One presents him with depth and the other makes him one dimensional.

I just think getting hung up on the logistics of that moment is a weird place to draw the line

The “logistics” are the foundation of the story, all of this shit exists in any complex narrative. Characters do not exist in a vacuum, they do not operate as separate entities from the world at large. There are physics and rules to the world that are established both in the actual scientific and narrative sense. It’s why people ask questions like “what do they eat” for RPGs. It’s addressing an aspect of the world that can/will affect the whole narrative.

Who cares

You clearly do since you have been arguing it. Honestly if you can’t argue it, why not just admit the writing is shit? What do you lose from that? What part of you actually needs it to not be true?

It just doesn't fucking matter you idiot

It does for the reason I just explained. Entire stories can change based on the way characters are portrayed.

still doesn't change any of the other insane shit he does

It does given he goes from “guy who is killing terrorists trying to kill a child for a pipe dream” to “guy who fucked over mankind because he couldn’t get over his dead daughter” do you not see the difference there? Actually tell me if you see the difference? Yes or no, is there a difference between the two scenarios.

One Joel is the man who has lost so much and went down a dark path to survive but ultimately isn’t completely fucked and the other is a selfish asshole that doomed all of mankind so he can have a second chance at being a dad.

I don't see these things as being incompatible. He is a destroyed man who found the will to live again in this girl, and he is broken enough to make a perceived sacrifice to maintain his renewed sense of life. I think it's pretty deep for a video game character and always thought this is why people loved him, but like any nuanced character, people actually love him for a variety of reasons.

It’s why people ask questions like “what do they eat” for RPGs. It’s addressing an aspect of the world that can/will affect the whole narrative.

Yes exactly. So if we need the world to have this level of internal logic, then I think there is a lot more to criticize than just the hospital scene. Like seriously, what the fuck is the deal with the fireflies? What was their objective? I mean beyond cutting open the first immune person ever found.
It's all just window dressing for the story of the big dude and the small child. I don't think the hospital is MORE egregious than the rest of the plot

Logically, the right thing to do is let Ellie die for the experiment.

If you'd been paying attention throughout the game, you would have noticed that the Fireflies are tremendous fuckups that can't be trusted with a chiapet. They are misguided, delusional, and incompetent. And then to thank you for delivering the sacrificial lamb they were too incompetent to secure themselves, they strip you of supplies and send you out to die.

Even IF you had not connected with Ellie, the correct action is to exterminate the Fireflies to the last man. They're literally too stupid to live.

Nobody really talks about this, and it's never confirmed anywhere, but I feel the intro makes a strong link between the outbreak and the Fireflies, who were ecoterrorists even before fungus amongus.

except her immunity was not due to her own genetics, it was due to the fact the strain she got was inert which was why they wanted to cut open her brain since that was how they could reach it

and he is broken enough to make a perceived sacrifice to maintain his renewed sense of life

Except that goes from he is flawed to he is awful. That’s not deep, it’s actively taking away depth to bust completely shift him to being just another selfish retard.

So if we need the world to have this level of internal logic, then I think there is a lot more to criticize than just the hospital scene. Like seriously, what the fuck is the deal with the fireflies? What was their objective? I mean beyond cutting open the first immune person ever found

Again, why can’t you just say the writing is shit and end this? Do you have nothing better to do than argue this point?

I don't think the hospital is MORE egregious than the rest of the plot

No you’re saying that because you don’t want to argue the point but want to keep the conversation going. Which is fine, just talk about something else.

talk about something else.

Ok. What you been playing?

An ADHD negroid zoomer fell for israeli propaganda and we’re supposed to follow his example?

Ni No Kuni 2. At the last chapter. Pretty good, the story is hilarious when you examine the events.

Tlou also fails to present the zombies as a serious threat in the game or show. It's like if Half Life 2 was all the same but instead of having to stop the combine you'd have to find a virus that kills headcrabs. The instability of society and people are way more dangerous than zombies that can't fight a tank.

I bet that, if Ellie died and the Fireflies eventually find another subject for the experiment, I bet they could do all the shit all over again.

multiple fungal vaccines are in the testing stages literally right fucking now

Yes, right now, in the real world, which has had 13 more years of scientific advancement, with what is essentially infinity times more resources compared to what the dozen or so researchers in the fireflies can gather

Saving the world means also saving 3 billion indians and africans so absolutely not

All they needed was a little blood. Joel is a crazy man and singlehandedly doomed humanity.

vaccine definition

The same. There was nothing to regret in that last mission. The fireflies are objectively evil.

The pre-apocalyptic government?

The pre-apocalyptic government still exists, that's what all the quarantine zones are organized under.

Literally nobody is sure it would have worked. Nobody. It may have worked or it may not have, either way they would have had to kill Ellie to attempt it.

There are thousands of things they could have done. Them doing the most retarded thing first is evidence they don't actually know what they're doing.

except her immunity was not due to her own genetics, it was due to the fact the strain she got was inert

Sounds retarded desu

you feel like punching me in the face? bring it on you faggot. I know multiple fighting styles, and I also carry a switchblade with me at all times. Something fucking tells me that you'd be better off keeping your arms down at your sides. If you can't fucking put "cause" and "effect" together in that pathetic brain of yours, I'll help you out here. You'll be standing face to face with me, and let me fucking tell you, it'll already be too fucking late to back down at that point. You might decide "well shit, I might as well stay true to my word and throw a fucking punch". This is where you will go wrong. I hope you don't have a job that requires two fucking hands, because you're going to be missing one after I'm done with you. I'll casually divert your fist off to the side, as you suddenly realize you may have gotten yourself into something you can't back up. You'll try to regroup and pull your arm back, but that wont be easy when I jab my spear-pointed Benchmade switchblade straight through the bone in your forearm, and proceed to rip your entire fucking forearm and hand off in one quick pull. At this point, you'll probably spend 2 seconds in shock. I say 2 seconds, because thats the amount of time you'll have before I reverse the knife in my hand, and uppercut it straight through your throat. You'll spend your last few seconds gurgling blood, and wondering where you went wrong. After that, I'll be forced to take care of any witnesses who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nothing a few quick choke slams can't fix, followed by a nice gentle slice across the jugular with the Benchmade.
Now, motherfucker, you sure you want to go through with that punch?

All they needed was a little blood.

why would someone just LIE on the internet?!

the strain she got was inert

It's due to the fact that her mother was infected just before she was born. Her mother was turning AS she was giving birth. It has nothing to do with a different strain or any other headcanon bullshit.

Expecting scientific realism from a setting with le magic mind controlling fungus that made the evolutionary leap from insects to humans like a man jumping from his doorstep to mars

It was all nonsense from the beginning that's not meant to stand up to proper scrutiny

That's from the show. The game never elaborates on how or why she's immune.