>revenge bad

That's not the issue. You've been gaslighted by the usual suspects into believing that's the argument, but it's not.

No, that's all there is to it. Abby was fully justified in killing Joel. Low int retards just got upset because they didn't have the emotional intelligence to understand that what Joel did at the end of the first game was wrong.

post apocalyptic world

people worrying about LGBQT shit

trans people existing

people worrying about personal revenge when everyone is killing each other

people have time to take steroids, gym and eat burritos

Is this the most unrealistic post apocalyptic world ever?

Joel's done way worse than killing a guy who was forcefully keeping him from leaving a building with Ellie alive. And no, the retcons to that scene in the recent remake don't count.

just let the random schizo terrorists kill your child to make a vaccine

Thats not even how science works lol. Letting them kill Ellie for no reason would be silly. Joel did nothing wrong.

Not his child, so not his decision to make. That's objective fact. Joel killed everyone because he was trying to make sure nobody would come looking for her again. Even if the vaccine would have worked, he'd have killed them all anyway.

You have to be biologically related to someone to protect them

What?

She was entrusted to him by her guardian and who didn’t tell her or give her a choice in the matter. And the fireflies basically told him to fuck off and refused to pay him or give him any of his gear ensuring he would die in the city.

Not his child, so not his decision to make.

Same thing for the fireflies.

Joel killed everyone because he was trying to make sure nobody would come looking for her again.

Again, you're trying to make this about "revenge bad", but that's not the issue people have with the sequel. Neil is just a horrible writer who was lucky to have competent people tard wrangling him while working on the first game.

Abby was fully justified in killing Joel. Low int retards just got upset because they didn't have the emotional intelligence to understand that what Joel did at the end of the first game was wrong.

Didn't Joel walk past a shit-zillion corpses that Abby's dad forcibly kidnapped and did live experimentations on?

In most other revenge bad stories, things get resolved because of a Christ-like self sacrifice that brings the two sides together in peace. Nothing like that exists in TLOU2, which seems to just say just don't fight back if someone kills your loved ones.

Disingenuous appeal to fantasy. You wouldn't kill for anyone but yourself. Almost everyone on earth is the same.
She agreed to go with Tess and to get to the Fireflies. So this is a really fucking flimsy point. Ellie had agency, she could have ditched Joel at any time she had the chance. To act like she had no agency before she was knocked out is completely false.

It's not that revenge is good or bad, it's that time will keep going regardless of how you feel and it's your choice if you're going to get stuck on something or keep going.

Disingenuous appeal to fantasy. You wouldn't kill for anyone but yourself. Almost everyone on earth is the same.

Talk english ESL

Yes, the Fireflies were unhinged in the first game. Joel did nothing wrong. He actually made the world a better place as he stopped more unnecessary killings and bombings if he didnt take out the Fireflies.

Amy Hennig did the whole "revenge is pointless" gimmick way better in Defiance.

Kain was gone. The madness of this place had somehow fueled my rage, and as it subsided I felt no elation, no sense of victory. Only a calm certainty that we had once again walked blindly into our enemies' trap. I couldn't be sure whether Kain had truly intended to destroy me - and now it appeared I would never know.

You kiddos are probably too young to remember the greatest game about revenge ever made. The title card that reads "Red Dead Redemption" that appears after you kill a man in cold blood is one of the most cynical things I've ever seen in a video game. Is the Marston family really redeemed? Or are they just perpetuating the cycle of violence? Way more thought-provoking than what TLOU2 tried to achieve.

She agreed to go with Tess and to get to the Fireflies

Tess is Joel’s partner and Marlene talked to both of them, you’re trying so hard with the half truths.

Ellie had agency, she could have ditched Joel at any time she had the chance. To act like she had no agency before she was knocked out is completely false

And right there you prove yourself wrong and show that she chose to stay with Joel and not head back, not to mention you have to ignore the fact that the fireflies the tried to kill her without telling her shit.

Had a math teacher in high school

was a total cunt to me and a few other students she didn't like because of reasons

She graded me so poorly I wasn't going to make it to the next grade, other classes were fine so I knew it wasn't me

Make a report to the principle about how she was allowing suspended students to pass tests and assignments they never took (technically true but I couldn't prove it)

She's not teaching my class anymore

The year after I graduate she dies of a heart attack, she wasn't even 40 years old

Yeah, I felt better after all that. Still do.

Another good example is Honest Hearts where it shows how revenge can be justified but also go too far.

Abby was fully justified in killing Joel

why didnt she just get over it? revenge is bad after all

This isn't about revenge, it's about Vengeance and Justice. The Guilty should not be able go free with a Karma Houdini free pass, especially a world where the Rule of Law no longer exists.

kids can't consent

except when I'm losing an argument about a video game

Is there any media that portrays revenge as good? Im sick of the revenge is bad trope

Assassins Creed 2 and Brotherhood.

See It's intentionally left ambiguous, which is good.

jews have a vested intrest in teaching goyim not to seek revenge whilst they exact their revenge on the goy who punished them

He's just a debatably useful mouthpiece for Anita these days. "S-stop going after my waifu for trying to gaslight a large chunk of the Internet, revenge BAD!"

One desperate dad doomed the humanity, what the arc of his story?

You should be a subhuman to take anything that comes after seriously

Not necessarily revenge bad, but revenge comes at a cost unless you have nothing to lose.

How did you come out on the other side of the first game believing that humanity as a whole is worth saving? Joel is selfish and a big reason why he ran off with Ellie is because she's important to him, but a huge part of the issue presented to the player is whether or not saving humanity is a desirable outcome.

revenge is... le bad???

STOP NOOTICING

But the tranny killed Joel for revenge and got away scot-free so... revenge good?

SHUT IT DOWN

it's less that he "got lucky" and more like he was carried (read: wrangled) by amy hennig, someone with actual talent

Considering you ended up here and the fact that you take enjoyment in her death, I would say she had a pretty good reason to be a cunt towards you. You are vile.

literally all her friends are dead including the person she loved most on the planet, and that was a direct consequence of her revenge

She got to have her retarded start over moment with the Asian tranny. She gets to live and have hope for the future.

This. Her traveling with a friend who eggs her on to get revenge, getting over it, then going through all that shit, finally getting her hands on her, gets injured and stabbed by her just to let her go when she finally can kill her. It's completely retarded. Almost as retarded as Joel handing Ellie over to the fireflies in TLOU1 when you find multiple notes and tapes that showed there were multiple people with immunity and the fireflies only succeeded in killing all of them and learning nothing. TLOU1's hamfisted stupid ending was always going to result in an even stupider second game.

He didn’t get lucky, he had people to tardwrangle him out of making the first game the second. I’m not kidding Tess was supposed to be like Abby but Bruce Straley told him to change it and after that he kicked him and everyone else that stood in his way out of the company.

He said she got off scott-free, even though everyone she loved died because of it lol she didn't get rewarded for killing Joel. And her 'start over' included being in a slave camp for months

in TLOU1 when you find multiple notes and tapes that showed there were multiple people with immunity

that never happened, it is crazy people still think that is true
generally people who argue Joel was in the right because "the fireflies are just evil terrorists" or "they couldn't get a cure anyways" are media illiterate or something. Joel has a lot of very compelling character-driven reasons to save Ellie that don't include trying to rob the moment of all interesting moral ambiguity

wtf is that real? Ellie isn't even unique and they *would* just have killed her?
this is pretty retarded.

Forced her wife and child to leave her

Ostracized her from the community who loved her

This is the stupidest and most unrealistic thing about the ending.
Fuck off Cuckman.

She gets to live and move on, she should be dead ten times over and is only alive because cuckman is a hack.

they couldn't get a cure anyways

I'm actually extremely media literate because they explain at the beginning of the series that it would be impossible to develop a vaccine for a fungus.

Not his child, so not his decision to make. That's objective fact. Joel killed everyone because he was trying to make sure nobody would come looking for her again. Even if the vaccine would have worked, he'd have killed them all anyway.

It was his decision to make, he realized that he'd been used to human traffic a young girl for organ harvesting and decided that it was a step too far, even for him.
That was Joel's redemption. There is no redeeming abby's father who is a disgusting cretin.

Usually revenge is to deal with perpetrators who disturb or ruin the lives of others.
Some basic forms of revenge:

beating someone, or a team, in a sport, competition or workplace advancement, after they beat you or your team previously

getting your money back after being sold an inappropriate item, it doesn't even have to be a scam

assisting the state in imprisoning someone who stole from or hurt you, or getting a fine, or community service

your bank lowering your credit score because you used their money

Revenge isn't simply a blood feud and very few people would benefit from those. However there are undeniable arguments for the death penalty which are entirely based upon revenge and do solve problems.

I would say she had a pretty good reason to be a cunt towards you. You are vile.

I take enjoyment in the deaths of the adults who bullied me when they were children. If you do not appreciate others failing when they made you fail, then you're not a human being. You're a robot.

It’s also funny because she was litterally months late to Santa Barbra. If Abby wasn’t captured by the slavers Ellie never would’ve found her because she was following leads from several months ago.

Arguing about how competent the fireflies may or may not have been is moot. Joel chose to save the one life he cared about, rather than lose her to save humanity as a whole, which the first game went well out of its way to show is utter shit in times of duress. There's nothing much else that matters in the decision he made aside from that.

I’m replaying Part One at the moment despite my mixed feelings on the series, I’m trying to meet the games on their terms as an actual game rather than a movie game. What’s the best difficulty to play on with this in mind? I’ve started with Survivor and just started Bill’s segement, but I feel more frustrated and cheated than compelled by the lack of resources.

There was a tape that said "past cases".
thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Surgeon's_recorder

Ellie was a special case, but they were going to hack her up without really knowing what they were really doing.
thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Marlene's_recorder_2

nope haha. provide the quote if you're so confident, but I'm telling you now you're wrong. we're specifically told Ellie's mutation is unique and the doctor compares it to the discovery of penicillin. TLOU is one of those series I am autistic about I could scratch the corners of my brain and remember whole scenes even after not playing it for years. I know exactly what collectible created that misconception about there being more people with an immunity it was the Surgeon's Recorder someone must have skimmed through what it said, and then this misconception spread around like wildfire even like a decade after the game came out

I thought the logic was that fungus in Ellie’s brain was benign, she’s still infected, but it’s just sitting there chilling instead of taking over her body. So they wanted to remove it and spread the benign fungus, since you can’t get infected twice.

Ellie wasn’t special. The fungus inside her brain was special.

The only reason people talk about this event so much is because of bad writing.

If this event took place IRL, firstly Joel would have died, because no one man is going to take down an entire hospital of armed soldiers. But ignoring that massive logical fallacy, Joel knows that they've tried this before and it didn't work, there is evidence in the hospital, this entire debate would have been "Here is proof they would have killed you and achieved nothing" "Oh, well they shouldn't have knocked me out without letting me choose, that's immoral". The nurses also would have known, and just like IRL nurses would have told everyone 'Yes this retard knocked out a child and her adoptive father killed him for it, we've done this countless times and not once did he get close to a cure hes a retard'. And then butch would have realised her side was retarded and never found Joel because its a fucking post apoc setting but they treat it like everyone has GPS trackers.

Wow, story over.

can't even get transportation for 1 (one) Juan single individual across a few states

somehow is going to develop and distribute a vaccine

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, how is NOBODY mentioning this

Fungus can't infect humans. TLOU is using fiction. In its own fiction it says they've had immune people before and they've never gotten it to work.

You can't have an opinion over something thats a written fact.

Let’s not forget this wasn’t something that happened immediately Abby was seething for 9 fucking years about this and she didn’t think to ask “why did this happen” or “why did he do it” like you would think anyone in that situation would ask that immediately especially when there are people that were there. Like people can say she didn’t care (which is another example of poor writing) but if that was the case she wouldn’t have gone to such extremes after nearly a decade.

Fungus can't infect humans. TLOU is using fiction. In its own fiction it says they've had immune people before and they've never gotten it to work.

my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/23198-candidiasis
Fungus can infect humans, not cordyceps.

good revenge story

character is obsessed with revenge, slowly ruins his life and morality in pursuit of revenge. the story builds up to the revenge, it happens, and in the end it makes you ask if it was worth it

bad revenge story

character kills hundreds in pursuit of revenge but just changes her mind at the last second

Well guess what, sparing Abby in the end did not undo any of these things.

So what was the point of it again?

It's like burning money because you wish you had spent time with your family instead of earning it

Semantics

You're exactly the target audience for shit writing.

The collectible was posted right here: The recording states:

The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid.

Now where is the misconception?

do i really need to just quote the collectible

April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.

We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.

people see "as we've seen in all past cases" and extrapolate something out of thin air, if you actually just read it he's talking about people that had the infection but not an immunity like Ellie has which they've never seen before. why would naughty dog write it so the fireflies found other immune people that would ruin the ending of the game, the point of it was for it to be morally ambiguous and the gamers all have their own opinion on who was right

Its bad writing, that's all. There should have been any other reason for a murder spree, like you know finding out the Fireflies had murdered countless people on a pointless 'cure'. Joel finding a room filled with healthy, dead kids that were cut up would have been more logical.

You're exactly the target audience for shit writing.

my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24401-fungal-infections-mycosis
Fungal infections are a very real thing, you seem to be rather incapable of understanding simple information.

Joel's mistake was that he didn't finish the job and only objectively correct message, if any, to be found in this faggot ridden AIDS of a product. He should have double tapped every single scientist, Firefly member, and there families for good measure. Only cure to the Zombie brainrot was isolation and slowly burning it out of your respective environment until gone.

Story conveniently built in a way to justify letting others do evil things without punishment is the way the modern slave should behave

Makes you think.

Point

Head

Next time you can just post "You're right" instead of posting links that prove me right

Next time you can just post "You're right" instead of posting links that prove me right

you said fungus cannot infect humans, you are by all rights completely incorrect.

TLOU2 in general has a lot of moments of Druckmann trying to compensate for the fact that TLOU1 did everything in its power to show you that Joel was 100% correct about his decision. The entire first game is spent demonstrating that almost everyone left alive is an awful person completely undeserving of any remorse, and then TLOU2 tries to completely go back on that. For all of its issues alone, the story in TLOU2 would have been quite a bit less embarrassing if it wasn't a sequel to a game that has a completely antithetical message to it.

TLoU3 should have Abby show up and kill Ellie's lesbian partner. Whatever her name was? She had the black baby. Anyway there can only be peace when Ellie and Abby become gay for each other.

everything bad that happens in your life is because you talked bad about Mo
sweet precious, Mo

Why do you TLOU2 troons act like anyone is complaining about it being a "revenge bad" plot, 99% of revenge stories are about how revenge is bad, it's not unique or revolutionary
It's just a very poorly written revenge story. You don't make your character stop right before the revenge after ruining everything to take that revenge just so you can make her say "hey I realized revenge is bad actually, don't do it" to the players. Even funnier, it's not even the first game to do this retarded mistake, fucking AssCreed 2 does the same thing, but at least it's not as preachy as TLOU2

that's fucking retarded
the reason why Joel is so compelling is because of his storyline starting with the prologue, as he's running with Ellie in his arms he's saying the same words of comfort he told his dying daughter. why would Joel, from his perspective, ever sacrifice Ellie? especially without any closure? it's like people are allergic to compelling writing they need Joel to be 100000% in the right the fireflies need to be child devouring monsters, I don't even know what to call this it's like gamer bing bing wahoo brain

Actual chad take; self defence is always valid and it extends to family

she lives forever

Sticking strictly with vidya, Devil May Cry 1 is a good example. Dante shows up to an island to get revenge, gets it, then flies off into the sunset.

Didnt read. Engaging with people who think TLOU is worth arguing about is like trying to teach math to a rock.

The story is bad, the writing is bad, there is no truth, logic or reasoning other than accepting that one point.

I would say revenge is bad in a civilized society but this post apocalyptic taken over by mushroom people.
Joel did nothing wrong and is a necessity in a cruel world. Fuck the fireflies, fuck tranby, fucking huge nose, and fuck the asian cuck.

Didnt read see

OY VEY

youtube.com/watch?v=cSCqfW1aJEY&pp

but that's why Ellie had such moral quandary killing Abby, if Abby was at full strength and not looking after a small kid Ellie would have no problem shooting her face off. but Abby being so weak and having this kid made it more difficult, and maybe also cus Abby spared Ellie twice. Ellie even forces Abby to fight back by putting a knife to the kid's throat she could have just shot her in the back if she wanted

All i'm reading is a concession, thanks.

I would say revenge is bad in a civilized society

It's the corner stone of the western justice system. The death penalty and long prison sentences are literally society revenging itself upon the perpetrator.

yeah if she had killed Abby and then the game ended with a shot of her face while she watches the weird kid cry over the corpse it would have been much better, and it would have mirrored the ending of the first game

Didnt read see

Didn't read see

why even engage with the thread at all then. if you don't understand why Joel would want to save Ellie then what game were you even playing, the ending to TLOU1 was very good very compelling and interesting

Na. Self defence extends to potential threats. Its just shit writing. Headshot both, move on. Good ending and happy audience, also realistic.

You made a mistake, but don't worry it's an anonymous forum

Now STFU instead of embarassing yourself further.

Im saying the writing is shit, therefore arguing over plot points is stupid, and yes this thread should be deleted.

You're stupid, arguing over plot points. We are not the same.

It's only bad because Neil Cuckmann is a hack. With a better writer her revenge story would been justice

they aren't potential threats anymore, I think a lot of people wouldn't have been happy with that ending considering how long you play as Abby/Lev. I always thought they should have let you have the choice to kill Abby or not though, that would have been juicy

Didnt read see

Counterpoint: Revenge good

He was a jealous bitch and wanted to ruin the story because he got better Ed by someone else

Anon points out this type of fungus isnt realistic

Posts unrelated irl infections

You are the shitposter but clearly too stupid to see it. Stop trying to save face any time or reply if you're butthurt he called you out.

Write one of the most unlikeable characters ever

Give them a shittier version of the arc you gave your first character

People will defend them and your new story to the death

Is critical praise really this easy?

it's weird he's trying to make himself out to be the sole creative genius behind TLOU.

why are they trying to make dina less gay in the show? did they realize how off putting the crust busting episode was in the first season?

Shes alive, shes a threat, one bullet for her and one for the kid. It is objectively the moral thing to do and the thing everyone wanted to see.

ohnonononono

I dont think even critics liked Abby

Would Ellie's sacrifice lead to the development of a vaccine or it was a hypothetical assumption if everything goes well? How many people were sacrificed before Ellie? Wouldn't be smarter to just have them populate the earth with people who have natural immunity?
Also can kids consent to being murdered?
I guess we shouldn't punish criminals then because "paying for the actions you've committed" can clearly be seen as an act of revenge.

cool it with the antisemitic remarks. revenge is for chosen folks only and everyone else NEEDS to let bygones be bygones.

I liked Abby, her campaign was pretty good I feel she was a believable character. I think people just jump through hoops because they really don't want to sympathize with Joel's killer which is fair

Neil Druckmann was a writing hack who got lucky

he is a thief that took credit for other people salvaging his retarded ideas and making them palatable for actual human beings.

le revenge is bad

The point is not about you feeling better, the point is that the person who wronged you is dead. The person can't do you no wrong or anyone else no more.

This TV adaptation will be a good opportunity to see just what the greater public thinks of TLOU2's story.

If actual media critics and normies tear apart the show's narrative, Druckmann will have nothing to fall back on to defend his misery porn slop.

The people who do are faking it, they just want to be different. Impartial analysis of this writing shows its bad.

BTFO, no cure for the infection or this burn

Mate fungi DO infect humans, it's generically called mycose, usually it's on the skin but it can be internal too.

I'm not even the guy you were talking to.
Saying fungi don't infect humans is pure and simply wrong.

BUT FUNGI MIND CONTROL IS STILL UNREALISTIC!

Yes but you you said was

Fungus can't infect humans

Which is wrong. Now be quiet you wrong person.

You now remember the monkeys

that was just in the show and it gets contradicted later after Ellie is examined, the ending loses its bite if the vaccine was never possible so the writers would never write it that way

abrahamic cuck mindset
revenge is a choice

She absolutely knew why he did it. She told her dad that he should do it, and if it was her instead of Ellie she’d volunteer. Then later that day someone murders entire hospital and Ellie is gone. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out the motive.

Kill multiple dozens of people in the most gruesome ways possible over the course of your revenge plot

Don’t kill the one person you set off to kill

Yeah revenge bad but narratively this was retarded. It would have been far more impactful to have her kill Abby and realize she made a massive mistake

reply if you're butthurt he called you out.

You missed his point, argued over nothing and are still butthurt at nothing. Go outside, get a job, get a gf, do something meaningful for once.

Not really though, people's criticisms are pretty unfair a lot of the time or boil down to person preference. People liking TLOU2 is on a huge upswing right now

Conan is unironically better in every way. Consistent universe, consistent characters, realistic and meaningful comparison to real world issues. Everyone would be better off to read it instead of touching tlou.

i can't name it here for reasons, but trust me - it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside every time i think about it. it's the sensation of a job well done, of a wrong righted, of standing up for yourself and your loved ones. i couldn't recommend it more highly. the only people that say an eye for an eye makes the world blind are idiots that either didn't finish the job, or people envious of others because their cowardice stops them from protecting their own dignity.

If imagining me angry makes you feel better about being wrong, go ahead.
More importantly, be wrong no more.

Too wrong to bother. But no.

Don’t care, gay game for gay people

in the end it makes you ask if it was worth it

The wrong doer is dead, it was worth it

What did Duckerman say about the israel vs gaza thing is he le forgiveness when it comes to his people?

Le revenge is bad

Le abrahamic religion says revenge bad

It's only when its happens to non jews we have to do peace but if it happens to the people of certain race we have revenge? Look at gaza where is the forgiveness?

I think people just jump through hoops because they really don't want to sympathize with Joel's killer which is fair

The blatant emotional manipulation to get you to like Abby was retarded

oh she likes dogs, AND ELLIE MURDERS DOGS

oh look at her with a zebra

oh she's scared of heights, tehe

oh she supports trans rights

Next time dont get mad when you misread someones post and maybe you wont look so retarded. If you had a life this wouldnt matter so much to you that you wasted an hour replying trying to save face.

canonical facist, terrorist and serial killer.

Not since the remake. He's also white now, for some reason, what did Neil mean by this?

Revenge is understandable until it becomes pathetic. Count of Monte Cristo demonstrates this beautifully. At first it’s alluring and he gets to torture the people that wronged him but when people start dying or the wrong people get hurt and you’re some 50 year old guy seething it becomes stupid to not just move on.

In the games case, yeah Abby being killed was justified but the whole point of playing as her was to show that her and Joel weren’t so different; they both did evil shit and found redemption through a surrogate kid. Ellie hesitates when she sees Lev for this reason.

Yet she had to be told that Ellie was the immune girl.

it's a fucking video game, if they gave players a choice to kill Abby or not it would have been much better received. Instead it was a lecture.

Chad take, Oblivion gives more choice than this "narrative" driven drivel.

High school bullying ruined my life, i was homeless for a while, tried my hand at turning over 7elevens, went terrible and i did 5 years for armed robbery, got out a broken damaged man, sold dime bags to make a living, later i graduated to pills mostly xanax and oxy

Anyway, some of my former bullies had nice successful lives but also loved their benzos, years later i had the opportunity and laced their xannies with fent, 3 of them died

this was like 10 years ago and i got away with it, i did time again for selling controlled substances but now im out on parole and a good boy

I think aside from the flimsy "Revenge is...le bad!" message the game tried to hammer into players is how emotionally manipulative it is in order to evoke a reaction out of you. It does so in a way that feels so smug.

TLOU has us play as Joel and really come to appreciate his bond with Ellie

Second game says "Actually Joel was a piece of shit and had this coming for all the people he killed" as the player and Ellie are forced to watch powerless as he's savagely beaten to death

Abby appears as this cruel mystery woman who murders Joel in cold blood, which instantly makes people hate her

But it turns out she's actually le heckin wholesome young lady who lost her dad to the wicked Joel's actions, and she's seeking justice for his death, trying to force the player to emphasize with her by playing as her and showing her backstory

Human enemies are all content to kill you on site, they will beg for mercy but if you don't shoot them, they'll get up and attack you

When shot in a non-lethal location, they cry out for their friends or mother, highly realistic death wails

Human enemies are all named and will cry out when they see one of them's dead

All of this is done in service to make the player feel bad for killing them

Game doesn't give you the choice to persue Abby one last time or unironically accept the message of "Revenge bad!" And stay with your family

Regardless of what the player wants, Ellie tries to kill Abby one more time, gives up, and loses everything with nothing to show for it

Like genuinely, what the fuck was the plan.

based anon
we need more heroic, pulp, badass stuff in entertainment but for some reason normies seem to love this kind of morally gray misery porn shit in everything

The entire ethos behind the story is "unconditional hatred," as opposed to unconditional love. The fact that TLoU2's world is completely and utterly devoid of hope or humanity is intentional, and the fact that it pretends to have some kind of surface level moral at the end is incredibly tacked-on, likely because someone Druckmann hadn't fired raised concerns over the fact that they'd basically created misery porn.
Druckmann watched footage of IDF soldiers in prison and took it personally.

Did I disagree with you? Abby absolutely needed to die for Ellie to realize that she, in the end, was just like Abby in seeking revenge. Abby was not evil, Joel killed her dad. The cycle of revenge shit makes sense when the ending lands, which 2’s didn’t. Ellie taking Abby away from Lev, damning him, would have been much more narratively pleasing.

her wife and child

lmao can't wait for islam to take over the west, so all these degens learn to fly.

With jews, what you should pay attention to is never what they are saying you should do, but rather what they are doing themselves.

Ellie hesitates when Lev is involved, but Abby tortures Joel with a slow death and is ready to cave Dina's skull in on a concrete floor WHEN SHE LEARNS THAT SHE'S PREGNANT.

Joel and Abby are similar on the most surface level, but they are not the same by a long shot.

Abby is allowed to get revenge, and Ellie should've just gotten over it

infact she should've let abby kill her too because she's an evil cis gendered white woman

You're not even trying, Druckmann.

Joel had 20 whole years in the apocalypse and did enough to where his own brother hated him. I love Joel as a character but he 100% did worse shit than Abby did, to more undeserving people. If you don’t accept that truth about the character you don’t actually understand him.

The problem is that she should have killed Abby for that message to be fully realized. It makes no sense for Ellie to spare her anyway, because she never got her side of the story and she killed hundreds to get to this point.

The reason they didn't do it was because they knew most players would feel satisfied with killing Abby.

TLOU is shit
the first game is shit and the sequel is even worse
it's not because of muh revenge

alcohol banned

pork banned

Hard pass, abdullah

The reason they didn't do it was because they knew most players would feel satisfied with killing Abby.

which shows that the story ultimately failed in its goal.

The Virgin Morally Grey Downer vs The Chad Flawed but Noble Hero

That's the good shit right there.

Forced her wife and child to leave her

Skill issue on Dina's side desu

Left her permanently mutilated

Skill issue once again

Ostracized her from the community who loved her

Skill issue

Did not heal or bring closure

Only because the writer forced the plot to conclude that way, if she killed Abby on that cross we could've had kino

The story of last of us has been insane and dumb and kinda goes against reality.

Joel losses a daughter and feels bad. He meets ellen page pree trans who has hope to cure humanity, yet he cant lose another example of his daughter so he has to kill a whole bunch of people to save her orphaning and dooming lot more children and other men. How many more people like his daughter could be saved with the cure but it fails. It makes me think of the other stories in the bible where the main chracter had to give his son to god as a proff of loyalty but god says sike I was only testing you. Or the story of jesus where god gives his only son to help humanity, joel doesnt Sacrifice an example of his daughter for the greater good of humanity he does the exact opposite of what god does and the whole story goes against personal sacrifice for the greater good. Maybe joel is the most evil character in history for his betrayal of humanity and life it self. Had ellen page been sacrificed for the greater good of humanity all this wiuldnt have had to happen, I dont know how fucked up you have to be to let that happen. If you think about it all the writing in last of us had always been bad they try to make it look deep but it's just dumb joel kills so many people through out the game yet he feels bad Ellen paige is going to be killed so he kills more people to save her whole dooming humanity. They try to make it all philosophical and deep but it's not its dumb joel the satan and (I was going to say selfish not in reality ellen page isnt even his daughter) for dooming humanity.

Your manner of speech is repulsive and retarded.

What sort of son would leave his beloved father unavenged?

nigga you got told, sit down

reminds me of that irl dad that shot the pedo martial arts teacher that molested his son (very famous video from the 80s-90s on youtube, google it or something)
they interviewed the son in a recent podcast and the guy seems more well-adjusted and sane of mind compared to the usual rape victim and thinks of his dad as a hero, not as a schizo killer. revenge bad my ass, druckmann.

Your dad killed himself with the life he led

No, you did. I saw you. You used him, and then shot him like a dog.

Kino

i feel like they did a good job of making Abby a believable person acting believably, they didn't scrub away any of her nastiness. the game doesn't want you to blame Ellie for defending herself from dogs that are trying to maul her lol. I think the only part that I agree with was with her dad the sappy scene of her dad helping the zebras felt like the game trying to fastforward you into being like "Omg her dad loves animals he's so le wholesome I am so sad he died :(" very tacky scene but I understand why it happened from a writing perspective

The thing about an eye for an eye is that it was meant to be a merciful upgrade to anything including your entire kin for an eye. The idea that revenge should be proportional to the crime committed was a completely foreign idea in prehistoric times.

that was a direct consequence of her revenge

Only because she half assed it, but she was required to or the plot couldn't happen. Same with the random ooc stuff like Joel giving his real name to armed strangers when his job in the commune required him to be distrustful of strangers

kill a whole bunch of people to save her orphaning and dooming lot more children and other men

He killed a bunch of retarded terrorists because they were going to kill a child for a cure they knew wasn’t going to come. You fags are so desperate to push your bullshit that you have to literally “hey guys I hate the game to and it’s poorly written but don’t you think Joel was wrong”.

He killed them to save the little girl he bonded with for a year travelling the country, and not because he thought the cure wasn't feasible. A big reason it's so compelling is specifically because Joel chooses Ellie over the world.

The whole point was that it was hollow. Everyone he loved died horrible deaths, and he threw away his life as a scholar (his only path out which his parents wanted for him) to kill some old guy who didn’t even apologize. Perfect example of revenge being bad, and Jack only kills one person canonically.

apocalypse is tough man, you gotta survive. and you have to adapt and live with knowing how it was before.
post apocalypse is easier. especially if youre born in it

I will literally commit galactic genocide in an RTS, if a single faction even dares to look at me the wrong way. Why the hell do you think Abby should ever get a pass?

Why the hell do you think Abby should ever get a pass?

neil druckmann didn't think that, which is why he forced players to give her the pass anyway.

But that’s the thing he wasn’t dooming the world and you’re avoiding that fact because you’ve had this same argument dozens of times and always get btfo because you can’t argue how the fireflies could have actually made a cure and end up devolving into “it totally could have happened bro” and the same points about both Marlene and Jerry having little confidence in it, the fireflies being incompetent, the state of the hospital, the fact that they immediately went to kill her and so much more. Joel was saving someone he cared about from a bunch of retards who stiffed him and then told him to fuck off. He is more than justified and cuckman has been trying so hard to change that but still fails. Now fuck off back to whatever hole you crawled out of to defend this shit again because the season 2 of the shitty HBO show came out.

"heh, only stupid, low iq, media illiterate gamer chuds hated Joel getting killed"

basic bitch tv viewers hate it even more

What will tlou2 defenders (Lord have mercy) say now?

no music or fanfare when Jack guns down Ross

sounds of the river and the ducks Ross was hunting just a minute ago

that single guitar riff and title drop as Jack walks away

It was peak and honestly thought-provoking. Everyone in Jack's life wanted to keep him away from the life they lived, and in the end they all died for it, and Jack took up an outlaw's life anyways. Whether the revenge was worth it or not is left for the player to decide, since the game cuts to credits immediately after and we don't really get to see Jack's own thoughts on it.

basic bitch tv viewers hate it even more

do they really? im kind of surprised, honestly. the game is so much more hyperfocused on joel and ellie and their conversations that i figured tv normalfags wouldn't really care when tv-joel died because they were missing like 80% of the context and relationship building.

revenge is le bad

Is it?

Fuck Joel.
Psychopath Ellie also deserved her fate.
Have fun playing that guitar, bitch!

Marlene and Jerry had complete confidence it would have worked, there is no dialogue suggesting it wouldn't work the game wants you to think it would work. Joel doesn't need the fireflies to be frauds to have compelling reasons to save Ellie, and it would just make the ending worse because it would take away why that decision had so much bite and meaning.

Also the game is very sympathetic to Joel the 2nd game literally ends with him saying he'd do it again and has long sappy scenes of Joel showing Ellie a dinosaur space museum, and you can say Abby had a similar decision at the climax of her campaign she betrays the WLF to save Lev; so the game is basically telling us Abby would have done the same as Joel, she would never sacrifice Lev. I only just played the game for the first time because it came out on steam I don't really care about the show.....

i feel like they did a good job of making Abby a believable person acting believably

Joel killed her dad, she wants revenge. It's not hard to make her motivations believable. Her being jacked as shit wasn't believable at all.

You still feel satisfied killing the old fuck though

NEXT GUY

In society and life we all sacrifice to do a greater deed the last of us story says you shouldn't do that but be selfish and kill as many people as posible to save them. It's likethe trolly problem you kill 5 people to save that one person. In this case joel killed the whole of humanity just to save ellie who just reminds him of his daughter. Also did the firefly group intend to kill her or just extract stuff from her to find the cure? You should be able to get cells from people or even anti bodies from blood to get the cure. Joel killed the whole human race just to save ellie it kinda just feels wrong and just so fucked up.

based noticer

Maybe they should've did a better job of convincing us that they knew what they were doing. After killing 100 children, I'm no longer trusting you with a vaccine.

I recommend playing pic for anons ITT. It's a rather short game that is based off the same things TLOU is based off from but ends with an actual good twist. Gameplay instances does get repetitive sometimes but it doesn't take away from the narrative and atmosphere the game is trying to sell you on.

I didnt understand why the government people wanted marsten dead they had no gain from it? Were the people who wanted marton dead have any reason kill him like was it personal revenge? Most times most people dont five a fuck about what others do to other people. Marston wasnt a real threat to anyone he was happy to just live in a farm with his family and not bother anyone. Why didnt the government just let him be after everything he did for them?

Not to mention it feels hypocritical as fuck when cuckmann is an unrepentant zionist.

main character doesn't get revenge on the obvious villain

haunts him at the end of the game.

I shot the guy in the hand
Fuck you

How come the other lady ellie doesnt kill at the end of the game doesnt come back to kill ellie? What happens with her? Ellie doesnt want revenge but that lady will probably come back

If it's real good for you, if it's fake whatever.
Fuck druggies anyway, but especially rich druggies.

Ellie just unceremoniously kills Abby

all of the miraculous leads and chance encounters that brought her from Wyoming to California aren't wasted

her fingers remain intact

she returns to her community as an avenger

all of the bloodshed, including Jessie's death and Tommy's disfigurement, will have amounted to something

Seems more like failing to fully commit to your spree of reprisal killings is what's bad.

neil cuckmann is a fucking retard

ellie murders random grunts including women

but not the troon that killed joel

fuck you, you shit fucking writer.

Is this jade Raymond's game?

Abigail killed Agent Milton in RDR2, so Edgar Ross wanted the Marston family to suffer by forcing her and her son to watch John die. Also, it's related to Dutch's (correct) assertion that the government is a corrupt entity:

When I'm gone, they'll just find another monster. They have to, because they have to justify their wages.

Dutch was 100% correct about that - the new monster was John.

You can either gut the people that wronged you or make them suffer a fate worse than death and still end the game in Low Chaos, saving the Empire while condemning your enemies to getting their tongues cut, being forced to work underground for the rest of their life, turning into lepers, being sold into sexual abuse, being imprisoned, and others

Seriously, if Ellie double tapped Abby while she was on the cross it would’ve been fucking kino, especially if she had the Joel flashback prior to doing it

Havent played the game but wont the lady that ellie let go come back again? What happens at the end. Ellie is willing to forgive but what about her she isnt going to forgive is she, she will be back

Basing the entire conflict on a scenario that NOT EVERYONE PLAYING THE TLOU1 HAD is beyond fucking retarded

Wont the troon also come back for ellie now shes killed all of the troons friends? What did she say at the end?

jade Raymond'

No, that's AssCreed and Watch Dogs.

I remember this game blowing my mind back in the day when I found out you could intimidate people with an unloaded pistol as long as they didn't know you had no ammo

the only way to end the cycle is to kill them, cuckmann would forgive a mass murderer because "oh, revenge bad"

There are more video games that is technically about retaliation/revenge than people realize.

and he threw away his life as a scholar (his only path out which his parents wanted for him)

Ehhh no?
He does end up becoming a writer he is the author of the "red dead" book in grand theft auto.

No Abby already spared Ellie before after she killed her friends and her priority is to get to the other fireflies, there’s no reason for her to hunt Ellie she didn’t even want to fight her

And I think the reason they had that doctor always die no matter what you do was because they knew they wanted to use it as a plot device for the second game

revenge bad writing is so devoid of humanity , its something a jew would come up with

yes, if someone raped and murdered your wife and children you wouldnt be forgiving them and accepting of people telling you to move on

Marlene and Jerry had complete confidence it would have worked

No they fucking didn’t, there is a whole scene in 2 where they both show their doubts and Marlene doesn’t say to Joel that he’s dooming mankind but that Ellie is just going to die anyway.

Joel doesn't need the fireflies to be frauds to have compelling reasons to save Ellie

It still doesn’t change that they are in fact frauds.

Also the game is very sympathetic to Joel the 2nd game literally ends with him saying he'd do it again and has long sappy scenes of Joel showing Ellie a dinosaur space museum

Shut the fuck up retard, he got his head caved in, no amount of bullshit is going to change that he died in the most petty and unceremonious way all because cuckman couldn’t kill him in the first.

say Abby had a similar decision

So you came to another thread just to cry the same exact bullshit you did in the last one? Seriously why are you like this? You get btfo and just repeat the same shit but word it differently as if it will change anything, fucking definition of insanity.

I only just played the game

No you didn’t you pathetic faggot you’ve been arguing this exact same shit for years and every time you fail just like the rest of the midwits that defend this game. And you just ignore it and tell yourself it doesn’t count after you throw a hissy fit. The fact you even have to throw this shit in shows that you were bothered I called you out for doing this so bad you had to emphasize how you totally were new to it all even though you give the same exact rhetoric and arguments that every fag has given since the game came out.

They also will eventually try your bluff the longer you stand there pointing the gun iirc.

I doubt there's any case of fungus in the brain that doesn't have severe negative consequences for a human. the human brain is made for native bacteria and viruses not foreign fungal growth.

Sacrifice only means something if things get better otherwise it’s just wasted lives. In this case they would not have and could not have found a cure and you know that. You can’t even argue what’s I’ve said you’re just reiterating that sacrifice is good.

"They were all dead. The final gunshot was an exclamation mark to everything that had led to this point. I released my finger from the trigger. And then it was all over"

The true message of last of us is that you need to kill everyone involved so there's no one left to go revengeance on your ass.
If Abby killed Ellie instead of letting her go she wouldn've have killed all her friends.

I still don't get why people think Joel's death was undeserved. Fireflies had a chance, albeit a very small one, to create a cure and he snuffed it out to save someone whose life was meaningless in comparison.

Count of Monte Cristo, the best novel ever written.

Who were they to decide whether her life was meaningless or not? Did they even ask her? Survival of the fittest, and Joel was fitter than them all.

This unironically.
Abby fucked up by not killing all witnesses and Ellie did the same lost everything for doing this shit so half assedly.
So the real moral is end the circle of violence by making damn sure to kill everyone that could even remotely threaten you in the swiftest most brutal way possible.

what if you actually got revenge properly instead of hesitating and it felt good and everything worked out??

TLOU does a piss poor job at doing the REVENGE BAD angle mostly because the people enacting it are living a life that can ignore it. Their fate isn't tragic, it become moronic. Something like God of War is doing the REVENGE BAD angle actually good because Kratos goes too far trying to avenge his family and ends up destroying Greece where even the the other gods tell him that it barely is about avenging his family anymore because Kratos is a retard that lets his rage get the better of him.

the ending loses its bite if the vaccine was never possible

It's actually a much more realistic and powerful ending because it shows how people can delude themselves into thinking they can cure incurable diseases, and the lengths they are willing to go (killing a child) to defy the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, etc. It's sort of a callback to human ritual sacrifice in a scientific setting. The fireflies as a new religious movement. Powerful stuff.

But you still might end up feeling just as empty and hollow as you did before. See

Fireflies had a chance, albeit a very small one

Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha
They had already murdered dozens of other immune people with literally nothing to show for it.
They were a bunch of lunatics that fell for the sunk cost fallacy they would never actually find a cure and all they would have accomplished is kill who knows how many people that could have actually saved the world by passing down their immune gens.

No they fucking didn’t, there is a whole scene in 2 where they both show their doubts and Marlene doesn’t say to Joel that he’s dooming mankind but that Ellie is just going to die anyway.

That scene between Marlene and Jerry was about how it was bad morally, Marlene had a lot of moral dilemma about it because she loved Ellie. Marlene is basically trying to say to Joel that Ellie’s life will have purpose unlike if she’s torn apart by clickers

And I’m sympathetic to people that think Joel’s death was lame. I don’t know who you are talking about in other threads, I would be surprised if someone was saying what I was saying though: Abby sacrifices the WLF and people she’s known for years for Lev, which I think is the game trying to compare her to Joel aka being sympathetic of his choice to save Ellie. The point of bringing that up is I don’t agree with people that thinks the games want you to blame Joel for his choice, the game spends a lot of time trying to make you understand his choice.

Also I swear to god I only just played it recently when it came to steam, I knew generally what happened in the game but never played it because I’m never buying a console. I’ve never talked about the game on Anon Babble except this thread I have talked about the game before though after playing it I got into discussions about it on the steam message board. I don’t really care if you believe me or not I have had this happen before where someone thinks I’m someone from another thread, what am I even suppose to say to that I don’t know what they said you can link it and I can tell you what I agree with and disagree with.

he threw away his life as a scholar

Nobody knows he killed Ross. He never identified himself to the dude in Blackwater. There's nothing tying him back to the ranch, and that's if anyone even remembers Ross killing Marston and ties his murder to that vs any other person that might've wanted him death over his career. You talking about his age, staying around instead of going to a big city to study? Would've happened regardless, he was taking care of his mom. You only get to play as Jack in 1914 just as he walks away from Abigail's tomb, dated the same year. Realistically speaking, he's 100% free to do and go wherever the hell he feels like it after killing Ross. Fuck off to New York, start a bew life, become a writer, whatever.

Well, we didn't want to do it this way but you goyim just won't be good cattle.

No they didn’t if you actually read the collectible when they say they researched other patients they didn’t have the immunity, Ellie was unique I quoted the whole collectible text earlier in the thread

When, in your first world country, are you gonna have a need for revenge?
Shut the fuck up, bitch. You have no idea what it is like to have a loved one be killed for some futile (or even justified) reason.
You will never actually struggle. I doubt you will ever even throw a punch in your life.

No Abby already spared Ellie before after she killed her friends and her priority is to get to the other fireflies, there’s no reason for her to hunt Ellie she didn’t even want to fight her

So both sides dont give a fuck they killed other people so abby's not upset her friends died but shes upset when joel killed her family members?

I am for forgiveness but that just hypocrisy and seems like abby is a bad ally

That scene between Marlene and Jerry was about how it was bad morally, Marlene had a lot of moral dilemma about it because she loved Ellie

And showed that she doubted it would work you pathetic faggot.

Marlene is basically trying to say to Joel that Ellie’s life will have purpose unlike

Not really selling it there since she said nothing about sacrifice or dooming mankind which was doing fine without a cure considering they’re slowly rebuilding.

And I’m sympathetic to people that think Joel’s death was lame. I don’t know who you are talking about in other threads

No you’re not, you realized you were caught and now have to pretend you haven’t been going apeshit for hours.

I was saying though: Abby sacrifices the WLF and people she’s known for years for Lev, which I think is the game trying to compare her to Joel

You tried saying this exact shit you pathetic fuck.
just because you change the wording doesn’t mean people won’t notice. And the best part is after getting btfo you made a huge stink and ran away only to keep going while larping as another retard. Fuck off, you TLOUfags are always the biggest most pathetic fucking schizos.

TLOU was always bad, trite and ugly. And moviegames aren't real games

Who were they to decide whether her life was meaningless or not?

1 girl's life is meaningless compared to the possibility of a cure that would save the whole human race

Abby shot Tommy in the head I think she assumes he was the one that killed her friends, and she might have some sympathy for Ellie because she saw her wailing over Joel. And she would have killed her but Lev wanted her to show her mercy. Her priority at the end of the game was to find the firefly settlement with her companion she doesn’t give a crap about Ellie

maybe if the Fireflies had been honest from the get go about Ellie having to die they wouldn't have been butchered like pigs, just saying

TLOU troons already believed that zombieshit + muh daddy was hot shit too

And it turns out a certain man they had wronged several times thought differently. They could play it up all they wanted, but the Fireflies were little more than common bandits. You think they would've given the cure to FEDRA? lmfao

100% agree
melodrama and misery porn are death of storytelling

That's antisemitic

they need Joel to be 100000% in the right the fireflies need to be child devouring monsters

Weren't they about to do just that? Speaking in purely literal terms

They had also just stiffed him on payment and beat the shit out of him, stole his stuff and dumped him to die.

I don’t think she showed any doubt of it working, the scene was purely about it morally and Marlene wanting to find an alternative. And thanks because of you I had to rewatch the scene partially to confirm because you were just so confident and yeah I am right, none of that discussion was about it failing. I don’t really understand what point you’re trying to make with Marlene’s dialogue to Joel, Joel never says Well it might not work! or anything like that, the game doesn’t want you to think that.

And what am I suppose to do to prove I’m not that person lmao if that person is trying to make the argument that Joel did the wrong thing or he’s evil or whatever that’s clearly a different opinion because I’m firmly in the camp of Joel being justified. There is absolutely zero nuance in how some people digest the scenes the game must have the fireflies just be evil or whatever, the fireflies absolutely had scummy elements and that was intentional but it’s all suppose to be morally grey. The fireflies were probably so afraid of Ellie saying no, because it’s too important to give her a choice from their POV, but that spells their doom because only Ellie herself could have convinced Joel. It is very unreasonable to expect Joel to just be Ok kill her that’s fine, he at least needed closure. And I think Marlene’s line “Don’t waste this gift, Joel” was suppose to be a pretty dirty line that rubbed Joel the wrong way.

It’s 1am and I have work at 5am. If the thread is still open tomorrow I will gladly keep going on about this, I am very glad to talk about this game

russian asshole mob son robs his house and takes his car while killing his dog

dog was his cherished gift from his wife before she died

at the end he shoots russian mob asshole in the stomach and walks up to him without even saying a word and executes him

very worth it
you dont fuck with a man who is sent to kill the fucking boogeyman

Even if some divine intervention happened and they created a mass producible means of preventing infection, they'd just use it as leverage to take control.

I don’t think she showed any doubt of it working, the scene was purely about it morally and Marlene wanting to find an alternative. And thanks because of you I had to rewatch the scene partially to confirm because you were just so confident and yeah I am right

No you’re not, she wants an alternative because she knows that it’s bullshit and that’s the same reason she doesn’t try to appeal to Joel that he’s dooming humanity.

And what am I suppose to do to prove I’m not that person lmao

It’s amazing how you’re trying to be dismissive when before you were trying so desperately to say how you totally weren’t the other guy and that it’s totally the first time you played the game and you never talk about it.

It’s 1am and I have work at 5am

Translation: I was caught and am now running away with my tail between my legs yet again while giving another shitty excuse. Seriously you’ve been at this for fucking hours, you’re some pathetic schizo that spends too much time crying about a plot point in a game that is almost universally shat on for good reason. And you realized you fucked up and have to insecurely emphasize how you totally agree but yet still choose to defend it, the fucking cognitive dissonance is absurd.

There is absolutely zero nuance in how some people digest the scenes

Because the scene has no fucking nuance and was never meant to have nuance until cuckman declared it did. And they tried so fucking hard to alter it.

Ellie should've died. It would've been the ending to at the very least deliver a more poignant revenge message with the same core themes still intact.

if John Wick had spared the son of the mob boss in the end and started crying it would have been much more powerful and less toxic imo.
Same goes for Hardcore Henry

story about letting go

but what if …. revenge bad??

Half of this board didn‘t play the game and are just spouting none sense. This game is quite simple:

you play as girl who wants revenge, because her dad got killed

later you play as girl who killed the killer of her dad

b-but le immune, le it wouldn‘t work bla bla

All of that shit doesn‘t matter. Ellie wanted to die, joel took that away from her. Joel saved her not because the vaccine wouldn‘t work or other bullshit retards made up to justify his actions. No he saved her, because he didn‘t wanted to loose another daughter. It‘s an ambiguous ending.
Abby then came back and saw her dad getting killed by some retard maniac, who didn‘t needed to kill that guy (I found it dumb even back then). She kills him and realizes it didn‘t help her at all. It only resulted in a bloodbath, where all her friends got killed. She helps that fucking tranny and her ptsd stops.
That‘s basically the foretelling of ellies story.

The kid and his posse are the only people John actually wanted to kill. Everybody else were bodies being thrown at him to try to get him to stop. John legitimately spares people who get caught in the crossfire unless they want to kill him as well. It's a basic moral high ground revenge story.

You’re definitely misreading the scenes, the game never has any dialogue not even 1 about it potentially failing. the game does not want that to be a thought in your mind because it kind of ruins the point of it

And look at it from my point of view and how frustrating it is to have someone think you’re some random guy, look no (You) in the screenshot would that convince you? I have talked about the game but only on steam forum Anon Babble was down when I was playing it I’m pretty sure. Most people don’t own a ps4 a lot of people will have played it for the first time on steam

And it was suppose to have nuance, that’s why the ending was so beloved and talked about. I unironically need to go to sleep. If you can’t see what I’m saying I hope our fellow anons can at least and agree you’re being unreasonable lol

everything about the game is bad.

make ellie a lesbian

kill joel in a stupid way

let the killer get away

all while having awful writing like BIGOT SANDWICHES

fuck neil cuckmann, talentless faggot.

character kills hundreds in pursuit of revenge but just changes her mind at the last second

I mean at that point why bother sparing the target?
what kind of redemption can someone feel after causing so much destruction except the life of the target?
I feel like the mc would suffer way more in that compared to someone who actually does the deed
like one night they'll be awaken alone in their completely ruined body, remembering the trail of blood they made and at the end of it the target is still there, alive. I feel like the regret would be just fucking unbearable.

The issue is the writers didn't do a good enough job stating why things happen as they do. You can see the *intention* was the two girls figuring out what calms their PTSD (abandoning the Wolves and caring for Lev/letting go of le revenge and choosing to remember Joel as a loving father not as the bloodied corpse) but when more than half your fanbase ends up discussing valid points like "idk man from my pov the game's moral seems to be "don't leave a job half done" because neither character would've suffered as they did had they gone the whole way when they first had the chance" maybe you fucked up somewhere along the way. Narratives can't sustain themselves solely on 'themes', there needs to be cohesion in-universe as well and this game is stupid easy to pull apart at the seams when it comes to that.

n-no I have work

comes back anyway

Good to know I struck a nerve. And the best part is you think that shit is going to fool anyone when it too you this long to post anything like it. So which is it kuroba? Dualposting? Private page and regular page? You were already called out for samefagging in the last thread.

You’re definitely misreading the scenes

I’m, they didn’t have confidence that it would work and 1 shows them as being a bunch of incompetent retards operating out of a dirty hospital who immediately go to kill the only immune person they have instead of running tests. This shit has been said over and over to you for years fuck off with this trash.

And look at it from my point of view and how frustrating it is to have someone think you’re some random guy, look no (You) in the screenshot would that convince you

You really are pathetic, honestly you’re so desperate to have people believe you’re a different person after acting like you didn’t care and pretending to leave, honestly how fucking retarded are you going to get with this?

And it was suppose to have nuance, that’s why the ending was so beloved and talked about

It wasn’t, people liked it because it was a happy ending for two characters they liked. Your blatant revisionist bullshit is obvious and it shows that you were lying when you said you barely talked about these games. Fuck off faggot you failed and will continue to fail no matter how many retards you larp as or how many times to go back and forth between threads.

idk man from my pov the game's moral seems to be "don't leave a job half done" because neither character would've suffered as they did had they gone the whole way when they first had the chance"

You mean why she didn‘t kill ellie? Because she wanted to avoid unnecessary blood bath. But which suffering would be gone? Abbys suffering was still there after she killed joel. Ellie‘s suffering only ended after she let her go.
Keep in mind, she sees her almost dead and could have easily killed her. But she helps her, because she felt empathy. Then she escorts them to the beach and still sees it didn‘t help her letting go. Then she decides for kill that bitch. And in the second when she almost had it, she has an ephiphany. This will not bring joel back. And that is not what he wanted.

its ultra shit writing either way

But when Abby revenge, it's ok?

if they gave players a choice to kill Abby or not it would have been much better received.

Come to think of it, that would actually have worked so much better than what was given.

which suffering would be gone?

Abby's friends wouldn't have been killed, for one. At least not the ones Ellie takes care of, Tommy himself would've probably ended up dead. Likewise, had Ellie killed her at the cross she would've kept her fingers. So yeah, someone thinking rationally over thematically can leave the game thinking just that.

Not that Anon, but most everyone here GETS what the game was TRYING to say. But clearly, if a LOT of people don't feel satisfied with the ending, how many of them need to be dissatisfied before it can be said that the game failed to convey it's message properly? That the narrative itself was the problem, not the message?

did they kill him off in the show yet or are they gonna drag it out for the entire season?

Show Abby a qt

99% of people would have killed that tranny bitch

Gun x Sword.
MC even gets a 16 year old cowgirl pussy at the end.

oh good, I had a feeling they were gonna drag shit out and kill him in the finale

It will never be enough because the people that defend this shit are midwits that need to make themselves seem smarter than they are. TLOU2 falls into the category of babies first “deep” game. So they latch onto it and say it’s great and dives into what it means to be a person and the human condition and other pretentious shit. So when people point out that it’s not only not deep but poorly written it compromises their ability to act like the smartest kid in class and they see it as a personal attack.

the first game's resource economy is fucking awful. do yourself a favor and play on custom difficulty with resource scarcity on medium and everything else on grounded.
also 2 fixed the resource issue. however grounded stealth detection is retarded.

That's cool and all, but let me kill Gigantor before I mope in my empty home alone. Literally nothing else in the ending changes, just one dead bitch. That's all I want.

SO fucking kino

Wait I havnt been keeping up with show, and assumed he would’ve died at end of first episode. TLOU2 is a fucking long game, Joel’s death is less than 5% of the way through. Obviously tv show will cut out a lot of the action segments where it was just gameplay for a while, but you need to keep quite a few of them.

The Legacy of Kain was doing this shit in the early 2000s with fucking vampires. RDR and now TLOU2 are playing in the kiddy pool by comparison.

mega based

Funnily enough, there may have been some merit to sparing Abby if she wasn't somehow an even bigger piece of shit than Ellie was.

Ellie was being an unreasonably retarded cunt throughout 2, and somehow Abby was a bigger piece of shit than she was. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that were supposed to choose or sympathize with either. Being a piece of shit only really works if you have the charisma and/or gimmick to actually make it work, neither do. Both are boring whores, and 2 proved Ellie straight up needs Joel to even work as a character, and Abby is only remotely notable when talking with Lev or being a whore with what's his face the cheater(I forget his name).

just turn the other cheek :)

Remember, jews are still seething at the Romans for what they did to them over 2000 years ago.

LoK is way too abstract and verbose compared to RDR and especially TLOU. However, I still hold it as the best game ever written. The dialogue is fucking immaculate.

And they'll spend the next 2000 years doing to the Germans what they've done to the Italians. If there was ever a group powered by spite and revenge, it would be jews.

LISA The Painful mogs TLOU desu.
Gets the themes across way better and is more uniuqe of a setting than le zombies.

Numbing yourself out to the pains of existence eventually leads to the loss of humanity, for some, literally.

Vs

What if mushroom but zombie.

People keep complaining about Ellie casting, but Abby not being comically muscly hurts the story. In all the flashbacks she looks normal, but current day she’s a roided up monster. It’s reflected in gameplay too, Ellie’s melee is agile, Abby just brute forces through things. I really can’t buy that actor stomping on a guys a dead so hard it explodes.

Also by end of game Abby is way less beefed up, because she’s not been living in a literal gym with world class (for the apocalypse) food supply.

Um, bros?
I kinda want to pork tv Abby?

Did I do the right thing?

kino

"There's no shame in it, Raziel. Revenge is motivation enough, at least it's honest. Hate me, but do it honestly."

Ludokino.

I think it was necessary for the gameplay to have Abby and Ellie feel and play different, but for the live action it’s not as important and it’d be hard finding a good beefcake actress. Although it is very fascinating seeing more and more people complain about Abby not being buff

Having played Soul Reave 1 and 2, I can say the big themes around the game are pretty straight forward despite all the time travel bullshit and questionable early 3D platforming and block puzzles.

Raziel wants to kill Kain for his wrongful murder, but it turns out Kain has been playing 4D chess to get out of a seemingly fated destiny of dying to restore the Pillars of Nosgoth and also eliminate all vampires on the planet. Raziel is still mistrustful of Kain and wants some level of revenge (he gets that later and it backfires horribly) but begins to understand that he needs to be patient and understand that there's more going on then whatever he he currently and fervently believes like he did as a human and as a vampire. If there's a big throughline with all the games its that of fate or free will, and whether it's better to have one or the other...as depicted by a giant lovecraftian tentacle monster and centuries long vampiric drama.

Games got great atmosphere and designs, but jesus the gameplay is still the only thing I don't like when I did play it. A rare occasion where I played for the story.

Ellie even tortured a doctor and murdered a pregnant woman, but when she has her PTSD moment all she cares about is Joel's death. I get that daddy being beaten to death in front of her would be at the core of her trauma, but not having her show even a bit of regret in that moment for all her horrible actions was a giant blunder

Yes, the framing of Raziel's crusade against Kane was a slow burn into making it seem petty compared to the grand scheme of things. It didn't even try to moralize whether revenge is good or bad, just that it's merely instinct to seek justice.

I asked last time, dont watch show so why is there half a golf club sticking out of Joel's neck?

Revenge doesn't heal you.
It just makes sure no one else gets to feel like you do from the same person.

No, you do not become the same because you were never the original aggressor and would have lived peacefully if not first aggressed upon. It is not a circle but a rope for choking two.

Ellie is so distractingly ugly in the show