Why did he destroy Vegeta?

Why didn't he just blow up the earth from outer space?

Toriyama decided it on a spur of the moment whim, just like everything else.

Oh yeah, that happened...

how was this? I think asymmetric horror games are stupid as shit so I avoid them all but DBZ definitely seemed like the weirdest IP to go that route.

Honestly makes no sense, saiyans were some of his most loyal warriors and they weren't even that strong so it's not like they could stage a rebellion.
Like, Dodoria and Zarbon could duo their entire planet.

He hates the filthy space monkeys

Still happening!

ego was bruised he wanted to beat everyone up in person and gloat to goku first

Btw Beerus was sleeping during this and would have pussified Frieza in a second.

The whole deal with how the Saiyan genocide is so weird. If Frieza was just strong then it'd make sense. Because while he could handle any individual fight, a coalition attacking him at the same time might be a threat.

But Frieza is unthinkably powerful relative to everyone else. No amount of planets coming together could stop him. And everyone knows Frieza has no compunctions about blowing up whole worlds. So why lie and say Vegeta was destroyed by an asteroid?

Beerus literally told him to do it

rejected by saiyan women one too many times

TEAM FUNNY STAR

He tried to, but Goku retaliated with a Kaioken x4 Kamehameha.

So why lie and say Vegeta was destroyed by an asteroid?

Because he was afraid of the Saiyans. He suspected that the Super Saiyan would come after him if he told them what he did, which is exactly what ended up happening.

Were they loyal or did they just love bloodshed?
Even though they were comparatively weak, a few factors still weighed heavily on Frieza’s mind: their ability to transform into giant mindless beasts (still weak compared to him, but the fact that ANY of them, even little children, could transform into something thousands of times more powerful and destructive than their base form is unnerving. What if they could harness another transformation?) their ability to grow stronger after sustaining heavy damage, and the legend of the super saiyan.
Frieza suffers from the classic arrogant coward dichotomy. If there was a legend of the unstoppable SUPER SNAIL, he might blow up earth just to be safe.

Game would’ve been good if it wasn’t for the forced gacha

It's funny to me people forget how niggerish, detestable and borderline kike-coded saiyans were in their introductory saga. So much so, they had to make Frieza a living cartoon stereotype of an evil shitsmear, taking the blame for the thing Raditz said Saiyans did for a living, and slowly turning Vegeta into an honorrraaburru knight which he wasn't, ever, not once, before the whole Super Saiyan thing was pulled out of his ass. Seeing Bardock basically act as Jor-El in that Broly movie was such a clown show kek

It was insanely fun even with the gacha shit but the devs fucked it over hard as the seasons went on.

Freeza also stayed in his restricted forms because he couldn't control his full power. A chance of a Super Saiyan being stronger than him while being handicapped is something he didn't want to risk either.

I literally can't even find a crack of this. Is there no single player content?

As far as the Frieza Empire was concerned, the Saiyan Empire no longer existed. There were only 3 Saiyans left, 4 if you count Tarble. He had no way of knowing there was a 5th Saiyan on Earth or that this Saiyan had the means of actually living up to the legend

Were they loyal or did they just love bloodshed?

Saiyans are the end point of the big stick mentality. They worship strength and will turn into cocky, violent assholes until they encounter someone they can't beat, after which they become subservient to that person until it becomes clear they can't maintain their strength. Vegeta wasn't loyal to Nappa. And he dismissed the idea of rebuilding the Saiyan race with human hybrids. But he served Frieza loyally despite the fact he knew from the beginning that Frieza was the one who wiped out his race. He only took a swing on Frieza when he believed he fulfilled the legend because even though his power had grown by hundreds of times in a short amount of time, he had no context for what a Super Saiyan actually felt like.

Nah they were all maniacs that could reach the level of Frieza's elites with their moon powers. He saved the universe from them.

There are 3 single player missions that are worthless. It's a multiplayer game, which should be F2P by now.

No. It's entirely a multiplayer game. Do you piratefags even look up gameplay before you start pirating shit?

Why did he destroy Vegeta?

vegetas hot hairy anus. thoughts?

Freeza was bothered by the idea of a (likely) Saiyan rebellion. It would have had lots of consequences. Freeza is insanely strong but that doesn't mean they can't fuck his empire up.

I think Freeza isn't that horrible of a guy. Probably not worse than the Saiyans, clearly. OVA Bardock is also an asshole but a very cool one.

A saiyin is a said in, it’s about bragging you have sex. And it’s a really strong move. Goku is named after abolishing war and celibacy. And he’s the most powerful character, because those are 2 of the more funny problems we are faced with. Vegeta is named after jeets. Hes not as strong as goku and is always jealous of him, because pajeets are ugly rapists. Vegeta technically means a pajeet who never fails. Piccolo is a pick a hole. I don’t know enough about his character other than the fact that vegeta rapes him every day doing gay sex, which is another thing brown guys do a lot apparently. So they say. The dragon balls summon shenron. Shenrons actually a dragon depiction of a long period of time. And it means anti female slavery. She n ro n. Im probably pretty close there. Krillens a joke about kpop, kr ill in. He throws a disc which is a reference to Korean albums. He was gokus best friend growing up, because Goku use to listen to kpop and kinda liked it, but eventually it gets sickening to hear once you know the truth about subliminal hypnosis being broadcast to every device 24/7 for the purpose of mass enslavement or not. Bullma is Satan literally bull. And she marries vegeta, so Satan literally means tan, like the color of brown peoples skin. Lots of references to Satan being on the side of immigration, we see that one countless times. Chi chi marries Goku, so thats actually a third eye joke most likely. About marrying god. Because they often say god means dog backwards which is the opposite of sex. Or it can also mean hi, and she says it twice. But im betting it’s actually meant to be a smile symbol next to a chair symbol next to a third eye symbol.

Didn't he wipe out and enslave entire civilizations? That at least puts him on par with the Saiyans in my eyes. I mean, if you take into account that the Dragon Ball universe is a place without tension where death doesn't really exist maybe, but I'd like to think one of Freeza's main contributions to the story is making Vegeta look like a good guy and proving adult Goku's Superman-ish forgiveness wrong. Being the one guy that didn't deserve to be spared.

Sayians were the niggers of universe. He did good.

Freeza was absolutely terrifed of the idea of a Super Saiyan

Freeza did wipe out some civilizations, for business, as part of galactic conquest. Other people bought these planets. It's definitely very bad but the Saiyans would do exactly the same and not for business but just out of sadistic intent. Freeza is a better boss to work under than Vegeta that's for sure.

On the forgiveness subject it's interesting to note that Goku was trying to kill Piccolo Daimao before. Maybe not Vegeta, he was okay with Vegeta and Nappa leaving instead of killing them. He really did try to spare Freeza but in my opinion this is more because Goku didn't want to become violent and enraged. The Super Saiyan transformation was a bit of a tragedy in a way.

He was more scared of the vanilla Saiyan rebellion actually.

Maybe a logistics issue?
sure he could wipe them out, but rebel sentiments are growing and if it does turn into a proper rebellion now you got a bunch of them wrecking havoc all through the galaxy
he can kill them without an issue but travel times and some planets having weaker fighters means he can't get to them in time before losing resources or stretching your army thin and halting any invasion to secure your sectors.
so it was safer to keep them all in ONE planet and get rid of them all at once before things got out of control, that way you don't have to deal with stragglers destroying your planets

Beerus told him to

On the forgiveness subject it's interesting to note that Goku was trying to kill Piccolo Daimao before

Ah but that was before he trained with kami and because he was am enraged child, after learning from him mr Popo, working with Piccolo's reincarnation and coming back to life, the only major villain that didn't get any forgiveness from him was Cell. Goku really did chill after getting his "revenge" on Piccolo, and perceiving his "son" as a less evil soul (iirc he and King Enma discuss this before he goes to train with Kaio). You raise an interesting point about the Super Saiyan transformation being a tragedy but to me it only proves Goku really grew as a person and did all he could to overcome it. It took a lot for Goku to give Freeza up for dead, and even when he did it, there was no joy or aggression in his face. He didn't want to slaughter him thoughtlessly because he literally had been then before with the Krillin and Tambourine thing, and again, just like after Raditz begged him for forgiveness, Freeza betrayed his good heart as well.

Yes, you can tell Goku is sad, not necessarily for Freeza's life, Goku outright states Freeza didn't deserve any of it and slaughtered people who begged just like him, I think it was a personal battle, and in a way Goku "lost".
Notice how Goku's bubble speeches become "square" like for villains after he transforms. Definitely not a great experience for him

I've had a crush on Frieza for most of my life. He's casually naked, dominant, entitled, dare I say bratty.
His footjobs have to be more amazing than handjobs.

It's definitely very bad but the Saiyans would do exactly the same and not for business but just out of sadistic intent.

Also I forgot to say, yes they did it for business too. Raditz says so in his 2-chapter long expositiory introduction. And I think usually the intention was for them to be the honchos of that operation, but that role went to Freeza later. When was the earliest he was mentioned again?

Bejita...

I don't know, it always struck me that Saiyans would do it because they're violent monkeys. Sure they also did it as part of the job but they LOVED slaughter. Freeza always seemed to have a more "laid back" (but still expansionist) empire

Notice how Goku's bubble speeches become "square" like for villains after he transforms.

I never noticed villians had Square speech bubbles, very cool.

It only stops for Super Saiyans after they train at the ROSAT since they don't need to be angry to be Super Saiyan anymore.

Frieza was a ruthless coldblooded businessman and an elitist, but understood the value of loyalty. the manga portrays him as a guy mostly trying to run a business, and his destruction of societies was very much a "nothing personal, just business" sort of thing. the Anime turned him into a psychopath who killed his underlings for fun, and then Super canonised it.

They were villains. Vegeta gradually becomes less villainous, but even by the Buu saga he’s still mostly a piece of shit.
It’s not like they ever retconned the saiyans to be good guys. That’s why Goku was at odds with them in the first place.
And Bardock is still a professional planet-genocider, just one cursed to see more than the average saiyan.

And then Super just made it more ridiculous by having Freeza having the potential to be way stronger than the Saiyans he feared if only he trained at least 3 days every week.

don't know the exact chapter but Frieza isn't mentioned by name until Vegeta arrives on Namek.

Saiyans are bad

Freeza is bad

Saiyans dying wasn't a bad thing

Killing Freeza is also not a bad thing

Simple as.

Saiyans kept getting exponentially stronger the more they fought, Vegita went from a PL of 16000 to over 1 million in the namek saga. Apply that to a planets worth of people and Freeza would get fucked, especially if they all turn Oozaru and use a combined beam or something (the same way Goku beats all their enemies).

Plus there was the legend of Super Saiyans.

Like, Dodoria and Zarbon could duo their entire planet.

Zarbon (I think) explicitly mentioned that Freeza feared all saiyans coming together, but 1 of them alone was nothing.

they continue shooting themselves in the foot by not making this free to play, I'd actually play it a bit if it was

Anon, the way you're putting it, a space jew slaver out for cold profit could be easily be debated to be morally worse than a bunch of raging vikings. That are also our for profit. They're all inhumane, but guess which one looks like the biggest bastard in a bubblegum shonen about honor and fights. I still think Toriyama wanted to one-up the Saiyans in evilness with him. He's even got some Freeza-like lines all like "how dare you weaklings make me exert myself" in his fight.

They were, however retconned into being more about honor and pride. From how Raditz and Vegeta (all the way down to Namek) act, they were extreme pragmatists completely devoid of honor. It's exactly like what happened to Klingons lmao. Maybe it's just Vegeta himself turning honorable, but that Broly movie did have Saiyans being way more civilized and likeable than one would have expected.

youtube.com/watch?v=2ZYffdgkFLk
Early Namek Frieza has a modicum of patience for his underlings which doesn't return until Super Broly with Berry Blue and the court jester alien.

Frieza does it for money, the saiyans do it for pleasure. both are deplorable, but one is clearly worse than the other. Frieza makes it clear he doesn't kill people for fun, and he'll finish them off quickly and efficiently when possible. Saiyans torture their prey because they enjoy the suffering and are implied to even eat them at times. Frieza is callously indifferent to suffering, the Saiyans actively pursue it.

that Broly movie did have Saiyans being way more civilized and likeable than one would have expected.

because they were on their home planet surrounded by their own kind

quickly and efficiently

You sure about that? I seem to remember Krillin being impaled on one of his horns for like half an episode.

More like because this is modern Dragon Ball. Toriyama didn't have that edge in him anymore. Canon Saiyans are probably more like the OVA ones.

Here's the nuance, Freeza will absolutely fuck you up and enjoy it if business calls for it but he wont go out of his way for that. Saiyans probably would chimp out regularly just for the sake of it.

Also it's not that long in the manga

he can kill them without an issue but travel times and some planets having weaker fighters means he can't get to them in time before losing resources or stretching your army thin and halting any invasion to secure your sectors.

This.
Remember that Freezas average soldiers only had a power of 1-2000. Krillin could 1 shot them, let alone average saiyans like Nappa. Freeza only really had Zarbon and Dodoria and Cui who were elites, plus the ginyu squad.

Yeah and Krillin also helped fuck him out of the dragon balls which he was fucking livid once he arrived to find out. Do you remember that?

You know what I meant, it's downright comical, how they're like "Go, Clark, our hope for the future!" when earlier Raditz bluntly told us the readers, Saiyans are unleashed into worlds as raging babies, procedurally catapulted into worlds like a weapon of mass destruction. It really is a retcon, and the difference in tone is laughable lmao

C'mon man this shit still looks way more evil than just chimping out. Try to get into the mindset of the japanese audience, and to how all of Dragon Ball's major villains, ever since Tao Pai Pai, start out cold, imposing and proud, then break down into a chimpout. Without exceptions.

We're getting into philosophical "define evil" discussion, but you can see the difference. Freeza is more reserved and not all interested in spreading death and destruction, he'll usually give you an alternative if there is one, although he wont mind slaughtering everyone on scene if things don't go his way. Saiyans are more or less proactively going out and killing people for funsies because they like the fighting and kililng. Now you can define which one is more evil according to your criteria but that's the difference between them.

bardock specifically is an outlier in that he actually gave a shit about his children

They are both evil. Fighting and martial arts should be used to protect people as established by Dragonball.

I'll just say I think they're a direct escalation of each other, since they are both seen as planet peddlers, and, in the morality of the manga, Freeza doing it for cold profit is portrayed as eviler than Saiyans doing it for the same kind of thrills that drive Goku to do better things. Just my last two cents on the matter yes we're getting too philosophical for DB kek but that's how I see it.

the way Vegeta and Raditz told it, Saiyan society was hyper-spartan where they'd brutally beat and murder each other with only the strongest being allowed to survive.

Frieza was fucking pissed off at that point and was engaging in a purely personal conflict. He had originally told them to fuck off and he'd led them live but they kept pushing his buttons.

They absolutely are, which is why both's demises were good things

Only in Nu DB lore, in the (well written) old canon he didn't give a shit about Goku until the end

I really get the feeling that most times Frieza “offers alternatives,” he doesn’t really mean it and you’re gonna get put in a body bag once you’re finished cooperating.

He had originally told them to fuck off and he'd led them live but they kept pushing his buttons

He would have let some people live, but not them.

Vegeta: traitor

Gohan/Krillin: weird signals on the radar, kill them just to be sure we're not missing anything. Who cares about them

And when he loses his chance at a wish it becomes

kill everyone involved, even the ones tangentially related

That's why he would have killed Goku who he didn't even know before that.

Depends. Let's say the Namekians don't have that insanely strong moral core they demonstrated and give all of their balls one after the other without discussing. I think Freeza makes his wish, leaves the planet... and destroys it just to be safe nobody can undo his wish. If it's not for that reason he'd just let them live, probably.

Why is sparking zero so fucking ugly? Why are the characters so off-model?

maybe in Super but in Z he wasn't one to waste his time with banalities if they didn't directly further his goals. He doesn't decide to target Earth until after Goku pisses him off enough that he decides he wants to spite Goku personally. before then he was content to leave the planet alone because Namek was his goal. he also is implied to have known about Namek but didn't bother with it because he didn't know about the Dragon Balls. and further would've left after having his wish granted if the Namekians had just given them over willingly. if he would've destroyed Namek, it would've been to prevent others getting access to the Dragon Balls rather than out of any personal desire to see the Namekians suffer.

I'm pretty sure he directly tells them he'll let them live if they go away when they first show up, and only becomes invested in killing them when they ally with Vegeta and declare their desire to avenge him.

It's low-budget ue5slop

They don't really interact. He gets Dodoria to go after them but it's not really a murder order, Dodoria himself wanted to interrogate them. After that he kind of ignores them until the Ginyus detect them with Vegeta, he concludes they're working with him and asks the Ginyus to kill everyone.

Not exactly unreasonable. Like I said, not a good guy by any means, but he's not as bloodthirsty as one would think.

This is not in character, if the dirty slugs had just complied with Freeza-sama's commands to hand over the dragonballs he would not have wiped them out. Freeza-sama is actually quite reasonable for a DBZ villain.

Early Namek Frieza has a modicum of patience for his underlings

Yeah, but then he has all his underlings killed, his ship trashed, all his scouters blown up, and Vegita stealing all the dragon balls from right under his nose.

It is understandable that he got a little bit miffed.

It makes perfect sense.

Freeza, and all of his best troops, were mutants. They were exceptional individuals from weak species. The saiyans were an ENTIRE RACE of powerful warriors. But oh, you say, Zarbon could solo them! Nuh uh. Consider that the soldiers that Freeza took to Namek were his handpicked elite force. They got DOGWALKED by Namekians with a PL of 3000. Even a basic ass saiyan with, let's say a power level of 800, could go Oozaru and hit 8000, enough to wipe out Freeza's best troops. His top tier commands were very few in number and couldn't be everywhere at once. A saiyan rebellion had the potential to decimate his empire with their use of zenkai and Oozaru forms.

It was still implied that he only spared Zarbon for failure because he was his right hand man, and even then it was "I'll give you one mistake, next time I will murder you"

Planet full of cucks.
He put an end to that.

Zarbon fucked up quite bad, Freeza was a good boss to him.

Not really, if he becomes paranoid he blows up an entire planet of loyal servants just because he was afraid of a future rebellion

the zenkai itself instantly breaks all logic in the DBZ universe. the Saiyans were clearly aware of it, all it would've taken is a half dozen of them farming boosts for a few years to breed a couple of guys who could've wiped Frieza without breaking a sweat. and you can't even say "they never thought to abuse it" because Vegeta casually talks about using it as a cheat on Namek.

Saiyans were a pain in the ass, I don't think this happened to other people. Not saying Freeza is exceptionally patient or even reluctant to use violence but Saiyans would always get it

He offered to recruit Nail and Goku. It's entirely feasible he would have been willing to use Namekians as soldiers due to their high power levels as well.

Vegeta was the first to figure it out because it takes healing from near death from combat for zenkais to work and Saiyans were peaceful race who never waged war or fought amongst themselves so there was never an opportunity for anyone else to notice this power before.

Total Vegetables Destruction ( by being put in the freezer )

And iirc Goku also figured it out when he was doing that Gravity Training

Frieza in the manga is legitimately enlightened despot. There is no real reason he should know about super saiyan, and with DBS lore: Buu and the super saiyan god outside of actively engaging with folklore of his subjects. Given his preference for collecting the uniquely powerful members of servant species, even offering Goku a job after playing around with him on Namek, we can see he's just an aristocrat who enjoys collecting rare toys.

Most of the saiyans were just fighting squash matches against foes who had zero chance against them. They didn't get wounded often enough to make use of it. And notice how Nappa when scratched with the destructo disk was all "AARRRGGH HOW DARE YOU INJURE ME", so he wasn't getting many zenkies either.

Saiyans fought and killed each other constantly in the old lore.

Freeza was the one who gave them the healing pods, they wouldn't be able to use these to heal over and over. It might not even work.

Goku overused zenkai using senzus, a magic item from Earth. Vegeta got his own bonus zenkai by using Dende's healing, aka Namekian magic.

Saiyans fought and killed each other constantly in the old lore.

But they didn't just injure each other to near death and then heal. They just squashed whoever was weaker than them. Like when Vegeta killed Nappa - if he would've let him survive and heal, he could've come back twice as strong.

they wouldn't be able to use these to heal over and over

Vegeta got healed in one after his fight with Zarbon, and it gave him a big enough boost that he could kill Zarbon with zero effort, despite losing to him before.
Also he got healed in a pod after his fight on Earth, and got a big enough boost to instakill Cui, who was his level before.

big enough boost that he could kill Zarbon with zero effort

Not exactly, he tricked Zarbon. That still put him on Zarbon's level which is huge.

Also he got healed in a pod after his fight on Earth, and got a big enough boost to instakill Cui, who was his level before.

That is true.
My point is that they can't just pick a healing pod and take it home and start beating each other up over and over but just stop right before death and heal their buddy. Either they wouldn't be allowed to take the pod or they wouldn't lower themselves to let someone else beat them up nearly to death and hope they heal them afterwards.

This is not in character, if the dirty slugs had just complied with Freeza-sama's commands to hand over the dragonballs he would not have wiped them out.

What exactly would be obligating him to keep his promise once he gets what he wants? He killed the Saiyans once they stopped being useful to him, he kills his minions to make a point.

Not exactly, he tricked Zarbon.

He blinded him with dust at the start, but even by then he was above his level, since he could easily keep up with his moves. In the previous fight Zarbon blitzed and destroyed him, Vegeta could neither fight back or keep up with him.

My point is that they can't just pick a healing pod and take it home and start beating each other up over and over but just stop right before death and heal their buddy. Either they wouldn't be allowed to take the pod or they wouldn't lower themselves to let someone else beat them up nearly to death and hope they heal them afterwards.

The only reason they couldn't take the pods all the time is because they are violent savages. Even Vegeta only resorted to allowing himself get near killed because the situation was completely hopeless.

that's my point. stopping and thinking about it for five minutes pokes all kinds of holes in the system. any sapient race would've immediately realised just how OP that skill is and would've used it to their advantage. but they don't, because Toriyama didn't think about it beyond "how do I make Vegeta and Goku strong enough to face the new enemies on Namek"

Unironically mogs dead by daylight, but its too complex for DBD tards and the "killer" player is actually a threat so no one plays it

killed the Saiyans once they stopped being useful to him

I thought they were still clearing out planets for him. The Saiyans clearly didn't like him, but they were still following his orders and making the business run.

above

He still felt the need to take him off guard, so definitely not that much above. Even after Zarbon's power "decreasing a lot" they still clashed violently.

The only reason they couldn't take the pods all the time is because they are violent savages. Even Vegeta only resorted to allowing himself get near killed because the situation was completely hopeless.

Yes that's kind of where I'm getting at too

Not really, first you have to assume these zenkai are *that* powerful. How many times did you almost die? Realistically most of the Saiyans who were beaten up enough to "nearly die" probably just died, and the ones who weren't probably survived once, twice, but how many times more than that?

They don't have healing pods, and they're a race of barbarians who wouldn't ever lower themselves to put themselves at someone else's mercy by letting them almost kill them and heal them in order to hope they can get a power up out of it.

Finally, and maybe most importantly, Vegeta and Goku's zenkais were more like 30% boosts. Only the final ones, for the Freeza fight, did insane rubberbanding (for obvious reasons). Would you gamble your life for a 30% boost?

they don't, because Toriyama didn't think about it beyond

Vegeta does make it a repeating point that Saiyans are too prideful to do anything.
But yes, by that point, Dragon Ball was about getting the non stop magical powerups that can put the good guys above the enemy, but then the enemy has a new form stronger than ever, so another good guy gets a powerup and battles him to a standstill etc etc repeat ad infinitum. Zenkai and the guru powerups and the fusions were all just a tool for that.

definitely not that much above

Even if they were equal that would still result in a giant powerup, since in their last fight he couldn't fucking touch him.

There's a couple things that would prevent the zenkai abuse before Namek.
1.) Saiyan Pride, King Vegeta exiled Broly on the off chance he was stronger than the prince. Anyone seen attempting to get stronger would have likely been smothered in their hospital bed.
2.) Of the 6 that survived the destruction of Vegeta, a full half were arrogant retards until be humbled by Goku. The idea they needed to be stronger than Oozaru allowed them to be probably never crossed the mind of the average saiyan.
3.) It appears to be a point of pride that King Vegeta sired a son stronger than himself, we can assume eugenic preference was well at play in the saiyan culture, Vegeta choosing to turn down the idea of hybrids was likely over the possibility of Nappa breeding a son that would kill him.

giant powerup

A 30% one actually.

But yes, by that point, Dragon Ball was about getting the non stop magical powerups that can put the good guys above the enemy, but then the enemy has a new form stronger than ever, so another good guy gets a powerup and battles him to a standstill etc etc repeat ad infinitum. Zenkai and the guru powerups and the fusions were all just a tool for that.

Vastly overestimated. There is obviously rubberbanding and some points make less sense in retrospect, but they're not that numerous, at all, and they only appear if you take the time to run the *numbers*. Change Freeza's 530 000 number and you can easily end up with something conservative and consistent enough.

I'll argue most battle shonen have far more powerlevel bullshit. Naruto was WAY worse in that regard, and not just during the war.

saiyans were a peaceful race

lol they were a race of retarded monkey murderers that exterminated entire planets for fun

senile toriyama dbs retcons are not canon

also zenkai boosts were a plot device toriyama just made up and promptly forgot about after namek, it's safe to say that they stop happening after reaching a certain power level because they were never mentioned again after namek and senileyama never said otherwise

How are you going to rule over your interplanetary real estate empire if you don't punish the underlings that step out of line? Vegeta was repeatedly and explicitly rebelling against his master. You can't just let shit like that go, you'd lose face if you did.

There is obviously rubberbanding and some points make less sense in retrospect, but they're not that numerous, at all,

Namek was about getting powerups from Guru, fusion with Nail, and zenkais, until they could fight Freeza who was million times stronger and got 3 transformations AND he still only used 33% of his power.
Android saga had them beating Gero but then stronger androids got released, Piccolo then got a powerup, then a stronger enemy showed up (Cell), then Android 16 could beat Cell but he got a powerup, then Vegeta got a powerup, then Cell got another powerup, then everyone got a powerup to fight the Cell Games, then Gohan got a powerup to kill him.
Buu Saga was Vegeta getting a powerup, then Goten/Trunks doing Fusion, then Buu getting a powerup, then the fusion running out but Gohan with a powerup just arrived, then Buu got himself a powerup, then he powered down but powered up again, then Goku/Vegita got a power up by doing fusion...

All of DB from Namek onwards was about shonen power level jumping.

How come saiyans don't spend their days blasting themselves with holes and eating beans instead of training like retards? It clearly worked.

True, Toriama sucks at worldbuilding. If saiyans actually grew stronger from zenkais at the pace they showed in the Namek saga the entire race would already be at least Dodoria level considering they do nothing but fight and eat.

Vegeta was repeatedly and explicitly rebelling against his master.

None of the saiyans were shown rebelling until (prince) Vegeta. Even the scene with King Vegeta was anime filler, and Freeza destroying them because he feared their strength was a secret that Dodoria told later on.

There's a limit to how much zenkais can be abused, and even with zenkai stacking base Goku and Vegeta were still weaker than Frieza.

Namek was about getting powerups from Guru, fusion with Nail, and zenkais, until they could fight Freeza who was million times stronger and got 3 transformations AND he still only used 33% of his power.

Namek was all about getting the Dragon Balls out of Vegeta and Freeza's hands, until they got caught by the Ginyus, fought, got the Dragon Balls again, and only then fought Freeza (not because they wanted but because they got caught).

Yes, characters get powerups, but almost none (bar two zenkai in the Freeza fight) are unreasonable. Guru powerup, Nail fusion, these are perfectly fine and integrated into the story.

Android saga

Yes (it kinda sucks anyway, the rest is much better)

Buu Saga was Vegeta getting a powerup, then Goten/Trunks doing Fusion, then Buu getting a powerup, then the fusion running out but Gohan with a powerup just arrived, then Buu got himself a powerup, then he powered down but powered up again, then Goku/Vegita got a power up by doing fusion...

You're struggling to make the powerup analogy here. I had to actually think for a second about what "Vegeta's powerup" means. This is clearly not the kind of "muh powerup escalation" we're talking about in these discussions.
Buu is mostly about comedy as they fight this guy who can't really be killed. So they get the upper hand using this plot device. And then he gets the upper hand again because of another plot device. And so on. This isn't "muh shonen powerup escalation", that's a completely different genre at this point.

It didn't work after Freeza (at least never shown to), which could be explained because muh Super Saiyan. Primitive Saiyans don't have the tech or the will.

Namek was all about getting the Dragon Balls out of Vegeta and Freeza's hands

For which they had to get powerups from Guru, and Vegeta had to get Zenkais from his fight with Zarbon etc...

Nail fusion

not unreasonable

Piccolo was ~3000, spent a few days on Kaios planet, fused with Nail (PL of 42000), and suddenly he was going toe to toe with Freeza who was above 1 million. It was the most bullshit example of powerups in all of DBZ.

You're struggling to make the powerup analogy here.

Buu Saga started out as them trying to stop Buu from awakening, and after that it was about giving everyone enough powerups so they could handle Buu (Fusion, elder Kai powerup, Potaras), and Buu himself kept getting bullshit powerups to constantly one up everyone too (absorbed this guy, then that guy, etc).

So they get the upper hand using this plot device.

anon, the unreasonable powerups are all plot devices. Otherwise they could just train in the room of spirit and time for 10 years until their strength balloons so high that there's no threat any more, or abuse zenkais and magic beans / Dende healing (which gave them 10x boosters by the time they were fighting freeza) so they could one shot Cell. But those wouldn't make kids watching the show shit their pants over the exciting new form they just achieved.

saiyans do it for pleasure

If extortion sounds like pleasure to you then so be it.

You're still risking your life every time you attempt it. None of the named characters die while recovering in a hospital because that'd make a shitty story, but that would be a very real concern for saiyans without access to magic bullshit like senzu beans.

It only occurred to me after I typed post that we were talking about the planet. In that case it's just Frieza being superstitious and afraid of rebellious elements.

Frieza is one of the few decent written Gay villian ever.

Goku goes from barely being able to lift a car to being able to nuke entire galaxies because of zenkai boosting. it is absolutely "that powerful".

too stupid, prideful

how did they even continue to exist as a species, then. Like I said, the logic being presented simply doesn't make sense. if they're so barbaric and murderous and competitive the real outcome would've been they'd all would've ripped each other to pieces and gone extinct generations ago. Vegeta himself outright states that he doesn't care about offspring when he's in full saiyan mindset, only being the strongest. the logical extrapolation here is that other saiyans would've gladly driven their own race to extinction just so they could have the biggest dick in the room. that's not how a successful species operates.

For which they had to get powerups from Guru

No, the Guru powerup kind of did jackshit for them. They got the Dragon Balls out of Vegeta's hands because they had a scouter and could hide their powerlevel. And escaped, multiple times.

Piccolo was ~3000, spent a few days on Kaios planet, fused with Nail (PL of 42000), and suddenly he was going toe to toe with Freeza who was above 1 million. It was the most bullshit example of powerups in all of DBZ.

Piccolo going there was unreasonable. It meant he felt he was incredibly strong after a month. Which is stupid, he should go from 3000 to 50 000 or 100 000. The fusion itself putting him at 1000 000, however, is very reasonable. Most importantly, it's part of story and intrigue, gives him a nice way to connect with his planet, people and Dende. It's perfectly fine and good.

and after that it was about giving everyone enough powerups so they could handle Buu (Fusion, elder Kai powerup, Potaras)

That's a retarded way of putting it.
This is a battle manga. These characters have to win fights. To win fights, they have to be stronger than the other guy. They want to beat the bad guy, so they find ways and plot devices to be stronger than the bad guy. That doesn't mean "hey guys, I have a dance that'll make you fuse and make you super strong!" is the same as "go train in that room and come back next day with a bigger number". Buu is a VERY different story than Androids and it shows in a lot of ways. Buu is comedy.

Otherwise they could just train in the room of spirit and time for 10 years

2 days maximum. ROSAT is bullshit because they would have used it against the Saiyans and it came out of nowhere, but it's not broken. It's just that it's a retcon.
Zenkais were soft canceled after Namek.

Again, it's obvious there is rubberbanding, but it's far less bullshit than 90% of big battle shonen around.

Goku goes from barely being able to lift a car to being able to nuke entire galaxies because of zenkai boosting

Goku was already able to destroy planets when he started exploiting zenkai and that just made him... able to destroy planets, easier.

m-muh he used it as a kid he just didn't know

Not really. Krillin says something like "wow that's why Goku kept getting stronger" but it's never actually shown. Goku got almost beaten to death twice as a kid, and it never actually made him stronger when he came back.
Most of the zenkai we saw were ~30% boosts. Goku leveraged those with gravity training and magic beans to speedrun his way, and that was obviously something he could only do at that point in the story. They didn't seem to matter after Namek so... Only the last two zenkai on Namek were actually HUGE.

Which is stupid, he should go from 3000 to 50 000 or 100 000

I meant he shouldn't go to that number*

DB powerlevels just fail to make sense when you read the numbers. If you just read "yeah he got a lot stronger he's fine!" it becomes a lot more palatable. I blame scouters.

how did they even continue to exist as a species, then.

that's not how a successful species operates.

They... were not a successful species, as evidenced by the fact that the first powerful enemy they met drove them to extinction.

they'd all would've ripped each other to pieces and gone extinct generations ago

Their caste system was strong enough to protect low level warriors as long as they were useful, as evidenced by Vegita and Nappa bitching about lower level warriors vs Elites all the time.

Vegeta himself outright states that he doesn't care about offspring when he's in full saiyan mindset, only being the strongest.

He didn't want a bunch of brats he couldn't control running around, and that it would be best to destroy all Earthlings for that reason. That alone isn't even any different from why Freeza killed the Saiyans.

Blame scouters and those fucking guidebooks they kept releasing back in the franchise's hayday that was trying to keep track of the numbers. After a point between characters holding back, inexplicable boosts off-screen that "just happen", the multiplier nonsense that acts like Super Saiyan is some fucking JRPG buff, and so much more, the numbers game is so unfeasible you can tell it wasn't actually given much thought. Toriyama was an improvisational sort of dude that would do whatever he felt like, he didn't care to research or refine this sort of stupid shit, there's a reason why scouters and power levels fell to the wayside for everyone feeling the strength of each other.

Goku didn't become a planetary threat until after the 23rd Tenkaichi.

it never made him stronger

it's a major plot point during King Piccolo that the magic water will make him super strong if it doesn't kill him, and that nobody has ever survived drinking it before him. obviously Toriyama wasn't thinking of zenkai at the time but it was later retconned to being a zenkai boost. He went from not being able to scratch old King Piccolo to utterly trouncing the young King Piccolo because of that boost.

they had existed for presumably as long as humans had before Frieza dabbed on their whole planet.

caste system

only justifies the continued existence of the royal family. the riffraff like Goku's bloodline were considered disposable meat. And the way it's presented, the only reason nobody fucked with the royal family is because they had 10x the power of any lower class saiyans.

No different than Frieza

Frieza didn't need saiyans to reproduce. other saiyans did outside of conveniently compatible alien species like humans.

the multiplier nonsense that acts like Super Saiyan is some fucking JRPG buff

How else would you describe Super Saiyan then?

This nigga really doesn’t know a joke when he sees one.

Toriyama himself said the numbers and multipliers weren't concrete, it was artistic hyperbole the characters said to sound tough.

Rage unbound, spirit circulating, body producing new limits beyond any normal boundaries defined prior. As an autistic fuck, other autistic fucks are too worn up about the exacts of how everything works in a weird attempt to pick apart the exact eccentricities and logic instead of just realizing that it's emotions and willpower redefining your body, so clearly it HAS to be quantified in an exact, precise matter of a statistical multiplier!

Enough is enough.

Toriyama's obsession with asexual villains is funny, 90% of his villains didn't have cocks

He was afraid of the legend of the super saiyan

When I was a kid, watching whatever shitty dub was airing in Canada at the time, it took me so long to get that weak-form Frieza wasn't a granny

it's emotions and willpower redefining your body

Thats sounds pretty cool

the Guru powerup kind of did jackshit for them

It made Gohan strong enough that Vegita confused him with Goku, which means he jumped to above 20k (even if we assume he got a zenkai after the fight on Earth). Krillin could solo Ginyu in Gokus body who was at 23k. They were both ~1000 when they got measured on Earth, so a 20x boost.

Piccolo going there was unreasonable. It meant he felt he was incredibly strong after a month.

Piccolo training at Kai is reasonable, but he wasn't there for a month, they all arrived when Goku was flying to Namek which meant it took them well over a month. So Piccolo could only train there for a few days. Nowhere nearly enough to get a major boost. So he had to be still a few thousand in power, then Nail boosted him to over 1 million, it was a complete bullshit shonen plot twist out of nowhever.

That's a retarded way of putting it.

The fight vs the Saiyans was way more entertaining and it didn't involve any random powerups other than the ones already established (Oozaru, kaio ken), it just involved clever twists in the battle, and the inevitable "let's hold on until Goku arrives to save our asses" which was not yet stale because it was the first time it happened in the series.
The ones in Buu was all about pulling random new moves/items/powerups out of their asses.

2 days maximum.

As stated by a wily Piccolo to not allow Vegeta to abuse it and get too strong for them to handle. Then in DBS Vegeta goes in there for like a week.

Super justifies Frieza by having him be Beerus' proxy and reviving him and his empire

Goku got almost beaten to death twice as a kid, and it never actually made him stronger when he came back.

Arguably the reason he could beat Piccolo the first time was the zenkai, not the super god water (which may as well have been just poison).
Same for beating Tao Pai Pai, since there's no way in hell that 3 days chasing a cat would allow him to completely outclass the guy who completely destroyed him just before.

This would make both of these a retcons, but they make sense storyline wise.

Cell made more sense to be revived than Frieza.

And the way it's presented, the only reason nobody fucked with the royal family is because they had 10x the power of any lower class saiyans.

It wasn't presented in any way whatsoever outside filler. All we know is that lower castes couldn't do fuck all against elites (and Nappa with his ~8000 was already considered an elite), Raditz at 1400 was considered low tier trash, and Vegeta was already stronger than the king as a child.

We know nothing of their power before they got killed. Hell, Nappa may only have been at 8000 because he then spent several years destroying planets for Freeza, which boosted him a lot over the years. Raditz did mention they found a planet that would be difficult for all three of them to beat.

Cell made more sense to be revived than Frieza.

Nothing in DBS made any sense whatsoever, it was just nonstop shonen bullshit where whenever a character is down, they pull a last second plot device out of their arses, which may be anything from a new form to stating I GET MORE POWERFUL DURING EACH FIGHT!

Why are Cellfags still hung up on this? Cell was weaker, and Frieza is a businessman you can actually strike up a deal with.

By the time they revive Freeza, everyone is strong enough that they can beat him with their pinkies, even Piccolo was far above him, Goten/Trunks could go Super Saiyan and then fuse, etc etc.
Cell was SSJ2 level so at least he would've been at least more competent. That's not to mention that Cell is a good fighter, Freeza just says shit like this is the first time he is fighting for real in his life.

But all of that is irrelevant since they just gave them a new shonen powerup and that was that. No, the real disappointing part wasn't that they resurrected Freeza, it was that his new form was simply turning golden when he is from a race of shape shifting aliens (and Cooler already showed a 5th form they could've emulated). Instead of a cool new form, he turns a different color. That's it.
That was the most disappointing part of DBS from beginning to end. Goku becomes red super saiyan, then blue super saiyan, then white super saiyan, Vegita goes Purple super saiyan, Gohan gets a complete copy of his SSJ2 form, Piccolo turns orange, Freeza turns gold and then black.

Even GT at least used a new design for SSJ4 (and it was still designed by Toriyama, you can see it in DBZ too when Goku first goes SSJ3).

Real answer? Fear about the "Legendary Super Saiyan" taking revenge or being driven to become the legendary super saiyan by revenge (saiyan power-up has to do with their anger and emotions).