What's the point of 1ccing arcade games? You credit feed and see it has maybe 20 minutes of content...

What's the point of 1ccing arcade games? You credit feed and see it has maybe 20 minutes of content, but it has barely anything resembling mechanics, so there's no point mastering it
There's literally zero point
Now of course arcadefags will just "zoomie filtered get good", but that's the other problem, people don't want to discuss the ugly truth about arcade games

It's fun.
You don't need bloated mechanics to make good and challenging vidya

>>>>>>>bloat

Mechanics aren't bloat, meme criticism

People spend hundreds of hours grinding in jrpgs just to see some numbers go up, at least in arcade games you are actually getting better at them

What's the point of 1ccing arcade games? You credit feed and see it has maybe 20 minutes of content

The amount of time it takes to build up the skills needed to 1cc a game is more than 20 minutes.

They can be when they aren't actually used for most of the game or don't actually change much about how the game is played in actual practice.

at least in arcade games you are actually getting better at them

Equally meaningless "achievement"

credit feeding

you did NOT beat the game. you barely PLAYED the game.

Posting what I assume is some e-celeb is not a valid point

The wannabe eceleb is not, but anon is right that 1cc is what counts as beating the game in the context of arcade. Using the game in OP as example, you can't play the second loop and fight the TLB if you credit feed, and it has the typical score reset on continuing.

But there's no mechanics, no depth to it is my point
You can do another boss, dodge more bullets, but it's the same shit over and over again

just watch porn mindset

tranny detected

???

The depth is figuring out routes yourself to guarantee both survival and scoring. Also dodging the bullets is easier said than done, otherwise you would be able to 1cc the game already.

Having an objective like a 1cc or scoring is necessary to interact with the game mechanics at all. Otherwise nothing matters and you will just autopilot through the game without thinking, ultimately experiencing nothing the game has to offer

trannies get upset as you know when anons show interest in ecchi games and just respond with 'just watch porn'

your doing the same thing but the topic is shmups

you become belligerent when someones has a different opinion .

How so?

schizo nonsense about trannies

Back to whatever hole you came from

This guy is too negative and elitist for my taste but at least he understands something about game design. Still shit like

you can only truly experience [game] on highest difficulty where you die from three hits and have to constantly use anti-fun mechanics!

Is too stupid even for this board

This is also adjacent to another ugly truth nobody wants to bring up: that curtain fire combo score shmups are categorically inferior to technical weapons-focused shmups.

Because there is no incentive when creditfeeding

It should be self-explanatory.
If you just credit feed your way to the end without any objective you have no reason to interact with game mechanics in most arcade games other than moving forward, you might not even need to fight enemies because they tend to have self-destruct timers. That's the least involved way to play arcade ad it won't be any fun.
If you are aiming at 1cc then you need to learn stages, enemy formations and any helpful mechanics to guarantee your survival, including some scoring tricks because they give you extra lives. That's usually what most people enjoy doing because it has the right amount of mastery and enough room for error.
If you are aiming at high scores, then 1cc is often mandatory due to points reset on continuing, and if you have specific scoring systems like chaining in OP's game then you need to learn about them as well and execute perfectly. That's for people who really want to play the same game for months or even years, not many care about it but it's something to keep in mind if you crave more challenge and depth.

But there's no new mechanics, no revelation about the game, nothing changes with a 1cc
It's pointless
Besides, you can only practice via credit feeding anyway, and at that point the whole thing is a cyclical shambles

But there's no new mechanics, no revelation about the game, nothing changes with a 1cc

False. Even excluding games with extra content for completing a 1cc, you obviously need to play very differently to stay alive as much as possible. An obvious example from the game in OP would be that now you need to think about the bomb and hyper mechanics, other then just dodging better.

you can only practice via credit feeding anyway

How you practice isn't really relevant to the run where you manage to get your 1cc, but that's also false.
Console ports for arcade games might include practice modes for each stage/boss, and emulation allows for save states to replicate the same functionality. As long you can play a full run without continuing after all the practicing then it's cool.

Need to do well to get to the last boss.
Actually, need to do well to get to the last level.
Actually, need to do well to get to the levels that eventually lead to the last level instead of the loser levels.
Need to do well.

If you do that, you'll never learn that the way to survive the last 3% of the final boss'(Hrualvandibili Thousand-ThousandARMS the Moonsun) HP bar(third layer) is to move three pixels up and two right, then five left, then nine down starting from your hitbox being right next to the 24th vertically-shot green orb(non-pulsing center) during its movement pause(use a bomb to clear it six frames before it explodes into a scattershot to force the timing of the next attack). This will let you avoid the projectile spam it releases immediately after orb detonation. Repeat this twelve times on a 37 second loop; don't worry about shooting the boss because while it still flashes when being hit it doesn't actually take damage, and dies automatically when it finishes its last pattern.

So is this the /shmup/ thread? Any of you already played Lilac 0? Is it good?

OP posted DOJ so it becomes a shmup thread regardless.
Haven't been playing anything in a while myself, but I did just a month ago with Twinkle Star Sprites.

It's the equivalent of turning on an infinite hp cheat and brute forcing your way to an ending. You see the same sights but you don't really get the same experience. Whether that matters to you or not is a different story.

Shmups were the original incarnation of those analog horror games the kids are playing these days, the ones with the esoteric rule autism and stimming ritual gameplay.

You didn't beat the game.

finally 1-ALL'd DOJ for the first time a few days ago

Literally one of the greatest moments of satisfaction and joy I've had playing a video game.
That's why you 1cc arcade games.

go play mars matrix

I beat it and with higher score than you
actually true in some games, not the CAVE ones though

GG. Which version? You going to do the second loop?

Any of you already played Lilac 0?

It's a good game but unfortunately it's too easy. It's worth playing it for the final two bosses alone though.

GG, did you pick Shotia or Exy (I'm taking for granted you did not pick Leinyan since no one does)? A or B?

Games where you use bombs for scoring are so much better designed than games where bombs are just extra lives (if you push the button in time).
If perfectly playing your game involves never actually pressing the bomb button then your game is dumb.

Congrats! Now do it with Marisa.

but it has barely anything resembling mechanics

Retard.

Wtf no bulli Leinyan. I did my first BL 1cc with her.

Black Label. I do plan on doing 2nd loop eventually, but I need to improve my first loop performance. Stage 5 is still a crap shoot. I only managed it because I got into it without losing a life, and almost never wasting a bomb or hyper. I might try improving my routing in Stages 1-3 for score since my survival is really consistent there
Exy-B. Used to play Shotia, until I realized how bad her laser was.
You mean Shotia? Marisa is from SDOJ, which I suck at.

Marisa in SDOJ

Wait no, that's Maria. Marisa is Touhou.

Truth. Besides it's more fun and satisfying to blow everything up and get lots of points for it.

Marisa is from SDOJ

bruh

It doesn't
Move, shoot, maybe bomb, maybe hyper

Retard.

Meant to reply to for the first line.

At least hypering, which is optimal for score chasing requires pressing the bomb button.
I do get your point though.

Good luck with the second loop attempts.
Shotia is better on type A imo because it has a slightly stronger laser and goes fast enough. Type B Shotia got buffed in BL but it's still very eh.

Excellent counter argument, really showing the intelligence of arcadefags

If you can't understand that there's a difference between fighting the final boss of a game where you have infinite retries and fighting that same boss where you've had to minimize fuckups for the past twenty minutes and losing sends you back to square one, you might be retarded.

"Now do it with Marisa" is a meme but I don't feel like explaining it.

I'm saying what's the point? It's just a self imposed challenge like a souls level 1 run or something

it's like saying whats the point of playing a game without cheats, i can boot up any game, use cheats to get max level, see all the content. what makes 1ccing fun is that you have to engage with the game fully and it's routing. instead of just holding forward while mashing the coin button and going "this game sucks" at the end. you could say this literally about any genre, the fun from shmups and arcade games in general is emphasis on player skill and routing. hammering in coins removes that so while everyone else is playing a great arcade game, you are just looking at pretty pictures on a screen

Not being familiar with the meme, but having 1cc'd a couple 2hus not as Marisa, I think I get it.

Not really self-imposed because the games support it by either locking stuff behind 1cc or simply resetting your score.

If you cannot intuit the point from my previous post, you are indeed retarded.

Now do it in White Label.

What's the point of playing any video game?
What's the point of doing anything without any material reward?

Other games, like Riven or Infinifactory, give you an actual experience and challenge your mind and improve your lateral and critical thinking skills
Shmups and arcade games do not

kek

zoomie filtered get good

You have to credit feed to learn the game, then it just becomes rote
Oh I have to watch out here, I dodge here, this guy spawns here, it becomes robotic

Marisa is faster and has a larger hitbox than Reimu so she's 2hu's hard mode. "Now do it with Marisa" means do it again but better in a taunting manner akin to "you didn't beat the game if you used x".

Shmups challenge your mind and manual dexterity and improve your reflexes, muscle memory, and on the fly decision making and risk assessment.

Not anymore, we got training modes or emulator save states now.
Credit feeding to practice is the slowest way currently

bigger hitbox

Why would ZUN or any other shmup dev do this
Speed difference makes sense, macro dodging becomes easier but micro dodging might be harder.

Retard.

This may especially be bad for Imperishable Night because the Border Team's smaller hitbox is most certainly beneficial

yai Mork thread

Get lost Mork

MORKY SHMUPPERS IN THE THREAD TONIGHT
EVERYBODY JUST HAVE A GOOD TIME
AND WE GON MAKE THOSE PROGRESSION GAMES LOSE THEIR MIND

Strategical aspect of shmups is also very underrated.
If you aren't copypasting a replay you are the one who is supposed to think how to deal with each enemy wave, boss, managing resources and scoring mechanics if the game is challenging enough to require a serious attempt at routing.

playing any shmup not presented by CAVE

It's just a self imposed challenge

It's not. You're misunderstanding arcade games. The goal in an arcade game is not getting to the end. Most arcade games are very short because you cannot save your progress.
The goal is to get a high score and you cannot get a high score using continues.

Mars Matrix!
Raiden Fighters!
Gradius (the good ones)!
R-Type (the good ones)!
Fuck you!

Yeah you should do that.
CAVE does danmaku well but what if you don't want to play only danmaku?

But to get the high score is deterministic, there's a correct route to get the high score, and all deviations are suboptimal

High score doesn't mean WR.
And the current WR isn't necessarily a perfect route, there might be more score to claim.

Okay go copy a superplay for us.

Not saying it's easy, but it's boring.
You're copying a perfect route someone else has usually already done, and it's not like climbing a mountain someones done before, that has actual tangible benefits, getting a WR in a game is literally meaningless

Then don't, beat your own scores or your friends(lol) like in real arcade. That's literally the intended way to play them.

Every single game is deterministic but that's besides the point. You said 1cc is self-imposed which it is not. It's an integral part of getting a high score which is every arcade game's goal.

Shouldn't Mentor be unlocked at least? Unless he never cleared Warrior kek.

That's completely not true, how much more dishonest can you get

mork video

literally an hour of seething that steams genre tags are bad

LOL
He is mindbroken

Make your own thread mork

You're copying

No, that's cheating. If you cheat in a game and then complain it's too easy or boring you're a retard.
It's also a dishonest simplification of what it takes to learn a game and you know that full well. But you're just doing this for the (You)s anyway.

t's not like climbing a mountain someones done before, that has actual tangible benefits

This is the video game board. Video games are a pastime meant to waste your time. The benefit is that you find enjoyment in your free time. Again a dishonest argument.

No, as I've explained before, actually good games improve your life, like any art will, but arcade games are just pointless

Haven't you heard? Mork is the MaxDood of the genre. When talks, we listen.

What was the point of showing shmups when it's anime about fighting games?

But hey what about that random dodonpachi showcase!

Just pissing me off if anything

The greatest fighting game player of all time, crushed by unfair OP broken Slayer
youtu.be/Kogh458wMdM

That's completely not true

What is not true?

But I don't see DDP there

No, as I've explained before, actually good games improve your life

No game improves your life apart from the enjoyment you get out of them. Unless you're a pro gamer winning millions in some e-sport tournament.

metal black

rayforce

KINO

I really want to like Rayforce but the combination of slow movement speed and gun that only shoots straight forward makes me really fucking unhappy.

Except even in this very thread I gave some examples that did
Typical dishonest arcadefag

it's a pointless scene in anime, every time protag tries shmups he says he sucks at them and moves back to fighting games. Basically just showcasing the arcade scene I guess, but it's pissing me off, just reminds me that we would never get celebration media like this for shmups

Where? I'm not gonna read the entire thread.

What's the point of 1ccing arcade games?

it's fun

Lol, calling anyone dishonest after all that goalpost moving.

what's the point of 1ccing?

okay but which skills you learn from shmups?

okay but what about tangible rewards?

okay but what about improving your life?

If you aren't enjoying a game then just drop it, shrimple as that

don't enjoy game because you're bad at it

instead of accepting that, or getting better, insist everyone who does enjoy it is wrong

I understand OP's logic because I've been at the edge of that cliff before

when the new video mork?

hows the switch port of sdoj bros?

I sort of understand, I've tried to get into a bunch of random games before, but if something just isn't clicking, I'm not sure it can be forced

Worse than the X360 one

Afaik it's basically the 360 version

youtube.com/watch?v=mPSUM9UTxp8

AHEM how could you come here before watching Mork's video?

LET'S
MORKING
GO
BOGHOG, SEND ME YOUR SAVES

thanks mork

downloads modded save

still doesn't beat the game

uses others footage instead

That's /ourguy/!

Playing Caveshit at all

Real men play

Compile

Psikyo

Taito

Konami

plays all of them including CAVE

What now

This.

retro shmupper

Congrats. You like shmups and are not just a poser.

But 90% of these games are retro

Ninja dog

I loooooooove Touhou and CAVE shmups!!!

What kind of person do you imagine that enjoys this shit?

Don't answer that. We all know the answer.
As for me, I'll be kicking it with the boomers playing R-Type and Gradius instead.

For me? It's Galaga and 1942

Compile made good games? i only know them for shit like neptunia, and Puyo Puyo but that was in the past

Compile used to make shmups before neps.
But I don't know about good, they seem ok at best.

What's the point of 1ccing arcade games?

For fun, retard

1cc exists mainly because the archaic coin mechanic is meaningless in ports and emulators so you have endless lives, which technically means there is no fail state at all.

1cc is just what most people agree on is a non arbitary way of fully experiencing an arcade game since you would need to master the mechanics of the game to a certain degree to beat it that way.

They made the best pinball game of all time.

How much harder is mentor than warrior?

kills ur run

1cc were a thing even before ports and emulation.
Apparently born from japs not wanting to hog the machine by credit feeding because there are people waiting their turn

they seem ok at best

Shut bitch.

Play better arcade games that aren't caveslop

Not much harder. Use staff, abuse i-frames, better manage statue heals. Game is easy.

I play and beat shumps with save states :)

That's called practice bro

It's a big step up. Adds in boss fights and more ranged threats force you to engage more with the mechanics. Warrior is still free for all mode

Like what

Psikyo chads rise up.

What's a game I can 1cc without too much difficulty as a beginner?

Hazelnut Hex

Blue Revolver normal mode is pretty easy and fun.

1941 Counter Attack
1944 The Loop Maser
Alien vs. Predator
Aliens Arcade
Armed Police Batrider
Batsugun
Battle Garegga
Blazing Star
Bubble Bobble
Cadillacs and Dinosaurs
Columns
Daisenpu
Daimakaimura (Ghouls n Ghosts)
Darius Gaiden
Donpachi
Elevator Action Returns
GI Joe
Gradius
Gun.Smoke
Hishouzame
Ikaruga
In The Hunt
King of Dragons
Klax
Legend of Hero Tonma
Magical Drop
Makaimura (Ghosts N Goblins)
Mercs
Metal Slug 1-5
Mystic Warriors
Ninja Spirit
Out Zone
Outrun
R-Type Leo
Radiant Silvergun
Raiden 2
Rayforce
Sengoku Ace
Shock Troopers
Sonic Wings (Aero Fighters)
Splatterhouse
Sunset Riders
Tetris The Grand Master
The Simpsons Arcade Game
Tiger Road
Tiger-Heli

shut up shut up, I'M NOT PLAYING EUROSLOP, NEVER

I'm playing Crimson Clover on novice right now, it's not so easy that it becomes boring nor is it so hard that I don't see a path forward.

Expected bait and got the best response. Based

It's a CAVE clone not a euroshmup

Batsugun Special

Solid list, well done

Like Dreamer

QTEs aren't bloat

random list of games with different genres

great advice guys

It really depends on the game. Some are absolute bullshit quarter munchers, some are very satisfying to 1CC. When you are new to arcade games it can be incredibly difficult to place where a game is on that spectrum.

I recommend Emergency Call Ambulance. It's a racing game with 4 levels where you cannot quarter feed and get knocked back to the beginning after every failed level. It's very difficult, but actually fun to play, learn the levels, master and optimize them, etc. If you put that under your belt, you can get a very good sense for which arcade games are difficult and might be satisfying to master and which are just kinda horse shit/have horse shit moments and deserve freeplay bulldozing. It can also give you a better sense of how long that process can take, I'd estimate I had 20-25 hours in Emergency Call Ambulance by the time I finished level 4 and beat the game for the first time.

youtube.com/watch?v=jbaxADGcA9s

It's been a while Anon Babble

PACK POST!
Original(kept for legacy reasons): archive.org/details/shmupg-pack
Leinyan certified version(Enhanced, recommended): archive.org/details/mature-dot-dodging-games-gaiden-v-1.0.7z

2hu where?

nyaa.si/view/1743411
And more doujin shmups at vector.co.jp/vpack/filearea/winnt/game/shoot
freegame-mugen.jp/shooting/
freem.ne.jp/win/category/2

B-But piracy is illegal!

Faggot shmups.wiki/library/Free_to_Play

Temporarily pasted anon's suggestions from some threads ago here:
pastebin.com/ZzHxJ38H

The enhanced pack needs more shmups

Hope Leinyanfag still browses these threads.

When was the last time he posted something?

Compile=/=Compile Hearts

I've been wanting to try this
Can you emulate it easily?

February according to the archives, at least while using the name.

Are contra, gunstar heroes, alien soldier shmups too, Mork?

What's the point of climbing a mountain? You look up pictures online and see there's nothing at the top. All you do is put one foot in front of the other, so there's no point mastering it
There's literally zero point
Now of course mountainfags will just say "zoomie filtered get good", but that's the other problem, people don't want to discuss the ugly truth about mountain climbing

fail states typically prevent progress, whereas running out of lives in an arcade game, realistically, does not

Yep, Sega Model 3 has a standalone emulator and the library for the hardware is available as a fullset to download online very easily.

If you want to avoid MAME because it's a piece of shit I get it. Model 2 also has a standalone emulator, and Naomi, which can be handled by Flycast because of it's similarity to Dreamcast

It's a fail state but the fail state itself is just the event or signal for the programmers to execute the consequences which in the case of arcade games triggers either remaining continues or a insert coin screen. If you have endless coins then the fail state is just a pause screen, it's an empty function that does nothing but pause the screen.

The game is effectively in an unfinished state. That's why people suggest never triggering the empty function that is the fail state, because if you never trigger it the game is effectively complete. That's why 1cc is the only non arbitrary solution to beating an arcade game outside the arcade.

Arcade games are about score and nothing else. The goal is to get a high score and not finishing 30 minutes of gameplay. Even if coins are free, losing all your lives resets your score.

This. The best way to play arcade games is to never use continues, and to try and beat your score every run. What ends up happening is, even if you can't clear stage 2 or 3, you get a lot better at the early stages as you route them to get a better score, and this compounds into the later stages because you carry more extends/bombs/firepower into the stages that are your roadblocks, until you can finally clear them. It's a positive feedback loop. A lot of old console games are the same way, if you play them for 1CC or no death.

Score is a completely arbitrary value that means nothing.

You can potentially be rewarded absolutely nothing for a hard challenge and get tons of score for easy shit. That's why people seek a more objective measure like how far they can progress in the game.

RPGshit has ruined your understanding of video games. The ability to 1cc can only be achieved by LEARNING the game and acquiring the skill to beat it. Thats at the heart of what GAME DESIGN as a craft is supposed to be. Not a bunch of 'content' meant to passively move you along with pretty visuals, tits and some garbage story. That's some moviegame bs. If you enjoy that, watch film.

Of course there's lots of examples of bad scoring systems, but when done properly, scoring is the developer's way of guiding the player to the intended route of a stage, or the intended playstyle of the game. If you follow the scoring system in a game that does it right, you end up on a fast track to mastering the challenges the game presents. You also start to wrap your head around what you should do in new situations based on previous knowledge of what is rewarded and what isn't in the scoring system.

Score is a completely arbitrary value that means nothing.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you retarded? Score is an objective measure of how well you play and it's the core element of every arcade game. "Progress" means nothing BECAUSE you can use continues.

Score is an objective measure of how well you play

No it isn't, especially if you use continues. The matter of using continues makes score even more worthless than it already is.
Of course it can be done well but people want a consistent system that works on any game.

especially if you use continues

Score resets on continuing

This is the first game I 1CC'd at the arcades as a kid, and basically, you can lick my ojisan balls

youtu.be/HCtX8-9hHZM

Lmao RPGs have fucked you up awfully. Everything you expect from video games is a downstream of playing too much Zelda and Final Fantasy
This is me btw:

What if you beat the first 5 stages on 1 coin and then you lose but the 6th stage gives an absurd amount of score? Was that run better or worse than the run where you used several coins on every stage till 4?

Score is a nice support system but as the main measure of progress they are not precise and consistent enough.

It's always morally correct to 1cc Touhou for the sole purpose of shitting on tertiaries
For other games it's just fun

Many games only record the score did on the first coin too, so it won't be written in the leaderboard.
Also it goes without saying that stage 1-5 + 6 score will still be higher than stage 4 to 6 only.

they are not precise and consistent enough.

they are the most precise and consistent measure next to time

No it isn't, especially if you use continues. The matter of using continues makes score even more worthless than it already is.

So you are retarded. Two players at the same stage in the game, one has died and continued with 0 score, the other hasn't died with 10M score. Who is better? Can you tell by the score?

people want a consistent system that works on any game

There are dozens and dozens of games that can be played with a standard deck of playing cards. What differentiates them?

Also it goes without saying that stage 1-5 + 6 score will still be higher than stage 4 to 6 only

That was just an example. There are absolutely no guidelines for a scoring system.

1cc and measuring how far you go is the most consistent non arbitary system to measure progress, nothing else comes even close.

So you are retarded

Won't read your post since you lost your composure to anger.

Won't read your post since you lost your composure to anger.

You did read my post and just can't admit you're wrong and a retard.

Go to reddit if you just want to call people retarded and feel good about yourself without ever really being challenged.

retard

Completely trying to avoid my winning argument because I called you a retard. Maybe you should go back.
The captcha agrees that you're a double faggot.

I need to know, I've been following Mark for years, what happened to him that has put him on Anon Babble's radar all of a sudden? His channel is still the same size, I don't see any influx. Did one of you fags find out about his channel recently or something so now he's the face of Anon Babble shump?

I think it was the RE4R video.

I just won't engage in arguments when people use insults because they are prone to taking anything the other party says with extreme ill intend. I'm not seeking internet points for an arbitrary argument, I just want to have fun discussing my hobby.

If the game is fun enough for you to even 3cc it, it should come naturally. You like the game and want to keep playing so you set another goal

I just won't engage in arguments

Yeah, yeah, the typical leftist cop-out. "I won't talk to you for arbitrary reason x" because you've run out of arguments. Eat shit and die, subhuman.

This game is too hard.

The most common cop-out universally is denouncing someone as less capable and feeling superior about oneself without ever being truly challenged.

Context clues indicate that you are BAD at vidya, lol.

Blah blah blah. If you had anything to counter you would've gladly posted it but you don't. You're wrong and you can't admit it because you're a spineless coward. You're trying to weasel your way out without losing face on a fucking anonymous image board of all places.
Strange though that you keep replying to me, even though you don't read my posts and don't talk to me because I hurt your feelings.

I don't have any particular ill will towards you because I have experienced this pattern very often. I admit I feel a need to reply when someone replies to me. If you want we can resume the argument with a cool head.

I kind of want to fuck that anime girl actually

Go on then. Explain how score is not an objective measure of player skill and how continues invalidate score.

Back off, she's mine.

Explain how score is not an objective measure of player skill and how continues invalidate score

Like I already stated, the scoring system is arbitrary set up and there are massively different rules in different games. I don't mind score at all if it's used as a supporting metric or if you do exactly the same thing and then compare your results.

But as a system that works for all games consistently and reliably nothing beats just trying to get as far as you can on one coin.

Just as there are poorly designed scoring systems there are also good ones.

Yes, that's why you want something that always works. What if the game is excellent but the scoring system is really bad? Will you not play it?

you want something that always works

why?

Because you want something reliable that you don't have to think about when you play many arcade games. That basis also helps when discussing the game with others. If someone says he came to level 4 with one coin someone can easily compare his experience to his own 1 coin run.

With scoring it becomes really complicated. If someone played the game a while back they will not remember the complicated scoring rules or what their own scores were at any point. How something works is always limited to one game. There are patterns but the minute details about the scoring have to be always relearned.

Also if you use it a second metric you have a sort of "achievements" for when you love a game so much you want to master it.

With scoring it becomes really complicated.

I think you mean "precise"

The memorization of the patterns and routes is the mechanic, you failed. Anyway, instead of 1cc, don't coin feed go for 8cc first, then work up to 3cc and finally 1cc.
Most of shmups are QTE with a visual obstacle rather than a directional button on the screen.

I love STGs and shooting for 1ccs (even though I’m really bad) but there are three cardinal sins that turn me off from a lot of arcade titles:

No score-based extends

Why should I bother to play well and be aggressive with scoring opportunities if it won’t help my survival? Especially when clear bonuses often outweigh any points I accrued during the game.

Gradius syndrome

If you’re going to power me down all the way to zero after I die you might as well not even have the pretense of showing multiple lives, because you really only have a chance to 1cc if you can beat the game in a single go. Checkpoints that are impossible to recover from count here too.

Unintuitive play

I hate having to rely on a wiki to learn that a game requires you to do some cryptic Duraga bullshit to defeat an invisible rank system. Looking at you, Raizing.

It's precise but only under consistent rules. Like let's say going for overall max score. I don't want to miss it, it's just not my first system of choice to track progress.

I have jarpig fatigue and I miss STGs like you wouldn't believe.

My argument was that arcade games are about scoring, not about clearing 30 minutes of gameplay and that because of that, a game over is indeed a failure because it resets your score.
The argument was not for comparing your progress on your way to clear a game with one credit, which you're seemingly arguing for.

You also said

Score is a completely arbitrary value that means nothing.

You can potentially be rewarded absolutely nothing for a hard challenge and get tons of score for easy shit

Give examples.

You still haven't explained how continues invalidate score as a metric.

pick B-Exy

game over in the stage 4 rail car section since I have almost no bombs to cover my mistakes

pick B-Shotia

die in the stage 4 boss because my laser sucks

pick B-Leinyan

die in the stage 4 rail car section since my shot sucks

If only there was some way to solve this issue

Satisfaction of knowing you pieced all the puzzles together, figured it out, and conquered the game. Retards wouldn't understand.

My argument was that arcade games are about scoring, not about clearing 30 minutes of gameplay

What you mean exactly? What do you mean with these 30 minutes?

clear a game with one credit, which you're seemingly arguing for

My side is that going for the 1cc is the most non arbitrary way of measuring your progress.

Give examples

In many games like R-Type and Contra playing for score is actually the easiest way to play the game since they have a snowball effect that if you obtain the highest level of upgrades or the best weapon like the s-gun in contra the game drops to a fraction of its difficulty, and only when you lose the game becomes extremely difficult, the later you die, the worse it gets.

So when you die in the middle and actually win that run you have played on massively higher difficulty then the person that never lost a life. This is how arbitrary and non saying score really is. It says nothing about the challenges you faced.

You still haven't explained how continues invalidate score as a metric

They just add a massive chaos factor that make it impossible to compare scores.

it has barely anything resembling mechanics, so there's no point mastering it

unlike your rollslop, right?

Just git gud with Exy.
Try to memorize where bomb pickups spawn, because it means if there's a hard part just before or a bit before, you can freely bomb in that part.
Also your rank gets lowered if you bomb while in the middle of a hyper, so if you have a hyper just before where you'd get a bomb pickup, you can hyper and then bomb out of it to make the game slightly easier for free. Good places to do that are the end section of Stage 2 (just after the mid-boss, also a good opportunity to build up score/combo before bombing out of the hyper), and just before or during the mid-boss of Stage 3 (shit can get a little heavy just before the mid-boss, so you can hyper to get i-frames, and then bomb the mid-boss).
Stage 4 and beyond is scary enough that you should probably just be hypering and bombing for survival.

pieced all the puzzles together, figured it out, and conquered the game

Is it really like that, though? Sure, solving one takes you to the next, but practice enough, you can clear Stage 6 and still fail Stage 1, or beating Stage 1 and 2 doesn't give you any advantage in Stage 3 because the puzzles are only "connected" in a superficial way. But hey, I'm digressing from 1cc, please excuse me.

There's still some STGs being released

Yeah I'm pretty sure nobody like those. Personally I'm too busy playing for survival to bother with scoring so if I game forces you to score too much I usually get turned off a bit. I pretty much gave up on trying to clear Radiant because of this, as scoring power up your weapons and you NEED them leveled up to survive.. and scoring in radiant is kinda too complicated for me.
But still you're right extends are great.

I don't really like rank either. Again I'm busy surviving, so why risk to rank up at all if all I want is to survive?
I hate when rank shows up in non shmups games in general. Pic very related

whoa powerful bait, managed to make a 200+ replies arcade game thread

Self-imposed challenge. A rite of passage.

Go play Espgaluda, Psyvariar, and Battle Garegga, then come back and try saying they don't have complex mechanics.

People who unironically think "Do it with Marisa" is an actual thing, has never played the game, or an extreme faggot that didn't touch Marisa because faggots on internet insisted on using Reimu for easier experience.
Marisa's ridiculous damage output and strong bomb makes boss fights end quickly, and spawn kill goons before they even shoot, meanwhile Reimu there are moments where fights seems like it's never going to end thanks to your auto-aim pea shooter, and her baby fart bomb.
"Larger hitbox" is a joke, it's only like a single pixel difference, and switching character has never affected how I dodge when playing the game as I never felt the difference. Which character is easier depends on a game, how you play, and which playstyle you prefer.
Reimu is generally the safest bet, but she's definitely not always the best.

Based MarisaCHAD

What you mean exactly?

I mean that arcade games are not about seeing all the content which is mostly just 30 minutes of gameplay. Arcade games are about playing those 30 minutes to perfection to achieve a high score.

My side is that going for the 1cc is the most non arbitrary way of measuring your progress.

Yes and I never said anything about that so I don't get why you're arguing against me in the first place.

examples

They're not examples of hard challenges giving you nothing while easy mode gives you score. They're examples of playing well giving you score and playing badly giving you nothing, making score a perfect metric for how well you play and only awarding a high score to those who can play through the game without dying.
The challenge here is to keep your power-ups once you obtained them, not to pull through once you lost them.

So when you die in the middle and actually win that run you have played on massively higher difficulty then the person that never lost a life. This is how arbitrary and non saying score really is. It says nothing about the challenges you faced.

The same goes for progress. One guy 1cc'ed the game without ever dying, one guy died in the middle and made it through without upgrades. Both have a 1cc. Can you tell which one had a harder time?
And those games are examples of extreme punishment for dying which does not apply to most arcade games.

This is how arbitrary and non saying score really is

If you died and played the game without powerups, the score will reflect that because you cannot kill everything and won't get time bonuses etc. Remember the argument is that score is a metric for skill, not for progress.

They just add a massive chaos factor that make it impossible to compare scores.

And what is that "chaos factor"? Continue resets score. Someone who continued will have a lower score than someone who didn't. How is that "chaotic"?

The same goes for progress. One guy 1cc'ed the game without ever dying, one guy died in the middle and made it through without upgrades. Both have a 1cc. Can you tell which one had a harder time

It's only supposed to be the primary system. From the beginning I have argued score is a great secondary metric. And the scenario you described is actually fairest way to use score as a metric for comparison. When circumstances are the same.

From the rest of your post I get that we are mostly in agreement. There is no point in arguing then.

BUT IT'S FUN!

Kino

23 years later and it's still the best vidya flyer/cover art.

The speed difference is not insignificant and does make Marisa harder to control, especially as a beginner.
That said I got my first lunatic 1cc of EoSD by switching to laser Marisa and just bombing my way through.

If score wasn’t a trustworthy indicator of performance in a game, then we could say someone clearing a track in a rhythm game with a full combo and someone who barely scrapes through are actually identical.

I can't imagine what the context is

What's the point of 1ccing arcade games?

It's challenging and fun

Rhythm game scoring system is a 100% transparent scoring system based on pure precision and it's 100% consistent across nearly all rhythm games. And the smaller the portion that gets quantified with score the more precise score is on top of that. You always get the exact same score mathematically calculated on your level of precision.

It's completely different from arcade game where the developers created their own metrics for what gives score based on personal feelings instead of mathematics.

where the developers created their own metrics for what gives score based on personal feelings instead of mathematics.

Name literally one game that works like this

Shotia, the android girl in frilly clothing, mourning the death of her pilot after fighting to kill the final boss which is in the background.

It's completely different from arcade game where the developers created their own metrics for what gives score based on personal feelings instead of mathematics.

im falling for ragebait right now but you can't apply consistent scoring to shmups because they are work way too different. compared to rhythm games which all just boil down to how close you hit the notes to the rhythm, and the percentage of notes you hit correctly out of all the notes on a chart.

Most games work like this. Take a game where you gain points by shooting enemies. In one you reach level 4 but you have more score on the run where you only reached level 3 because you shot enemies down. Which run was more successful?

At that point it's purely subjective what you value more.