SPEAR USERS BTFO

I'd just use my superior spear reach to stab any food out of your hands, eventually staving you to death.

brown hands made this image

just stab harder lmao

reddit the weapon.

oh yeah, flailboy?
*teleports behind you*
*unsheathes my katana*

Spears are mainly used in formation. If you grab one, the guy on either side of him sees the opening and you get stabbed twice

what if I coordinate my own formation to grab them all at once?

you end up too tightly packed for everyone to properly execute the dodge -> grab maneuver.

not having crossbow bros at the backs to pelt retards who invested in heavy armor

NGMI

Cuz it's fast as fuck. If I have a long spear and start swinging and jabbing with it the tip would be like a fucking snake. Good luck grabbing it when I'm slashing at your throat and eyes faster than you can visually track.

why didnt you wear your underarm armor?

Counter to spears is ranged weaponry because the only way you're getting past that shit is out-ranging it. Turns out polearms, spears and projectiles rule the battlefield.

you're a manlet, I can just stomp you to death with my alpha rage

swinging

if you swing your spear you're exposed. i could dash in and now i'm out of your spearhead's range, while you're in my range

ezl retard

Yeah ok bud. I would like to see you do that with something short like a baseball bat, much less a longer and faster weapon.

It's not just that. Most soldiers were not heavy armored knights. Spears saw effective use against shield walls as shock troops. Eventually it became a pushing contest rather than a fight, the goal of the spearmen wasn't even to kill the enemy frontline but to cause it to collapse.
The Battle of Hastings for example saw the Normans break the English shield wall with spearmen and a +10 morale boost from having William lead a charge

ENTER STAFFCHAD

Even against a shield wall a spear would be probably be the best options for poking at any gaps, right?

tear gas > platemail. sorry kniggas.

I think it was more like a rugby scrum, two sides just pushing and trying to cause the other to collapse so that the cavalry could exploit the hole.
In Hastings the Norman spears were particularly useful when they managed to flank the English huscarls so I would imagine in a frontline vs frontline situation it wasn't so much about finding gaps but that did become relevant if they managed to flank them.

I would imagine it also has to do with the size of the shields. If they're big enough and the formation is solid enough, forget about finding gaps, just push.

Just swap to your mace, or arming sword, or other side arm.

fields mage with lightning spells

lol
lmao even

what is my opponent does nothing while I do this idiotic hollywood action hero move???!?!?

You guys can't be this retarded naturally. You trained banging your head against a wall, or sniffing glue?

digs spear into the ground

uses it as a grounding pole

waits until your out of mana

stabs you

lol
lamo even

Ta p'tite lance de merde va rien faire face à mon armure de gigachad, sale mécréant.

let respond to posts I didn't read

Nah get out of here with that shit nigger

NO THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING
I'M IN CHARGE HERE

kneel

That's how it actually works though. Spears are really easy to aim precise thrusts with into gaps in armor
The thrusts come fast enough you don't get the chance to, and if you do now you either have only one hand available with your main weapon which likely needed two hands or you dropped your weapon to hold onto your shield, and the spear user can draw their sidearm like a dagger or short sword and yank to pull you in and stab in a weak point while you're close and have less means to counter attack. Basically, disarming the opponent is good but wrestling their weapon out of their hands isn't since it functionally disarms yourself to do so

pulls out a gun

No weapon is more fun or cool

Knights with guns

This concept is cooler than I imagined it would be. What are some games that have gun knights?

A baseball bat and a spear are very different weapons for reasons besides their length. A bat has a very large contact area for effective use, but a spear's effective contact area is very small, unless the spear is being used as a quarterstaff or some other stave weapon. The way a person fights with a spear, utilizing its killing point, requires a great deal of precision in order to be effective in single combat. A bat, or any other type of club, doesn't require any precision to be effective, if the weapon connects with almost any part of its surface area, it will do some amount of damage as intended. So a baseball bat can be flailed around for good effect, since it doesn't need to be accurate or precise, but a spear being flailed around is far less dangerous on its side than its tip, so a person facing such a flailing spear will feel more confident about getting past the dangerous part of the weapon (the tip) and inside its reach. Whereas if he did the same with a bat, the bat could just as easily bludgeon him with its middle part as the end part, and your bones will be just as broken. Whereas with a spear there is a world of difference between being bruised by the haft a spear and being skewered by its blade.

Game has halberd

It has a sweep/wide attack that hits multiple enemies in a row

Well, i guess it's time to use the sword

Ever played Vermintide 2? Best Halberd fighting ever is with Mercenary Captain Kruber

i was born with fetal alcohol syndrome

Spears are really easy to aim precise thrusts with into gaps in armor

No they're not. It's actually very hard to do this against a moving opponent. Even if you're very experienced fighting against heavily armored opponents. And god help you if he has a shield.

It's 1580, you've trained since a lad to wield polearms, bows, swords, axes, all manner of weaponry. Your squire has just attended your armor, which took up to an hour to fully suit yourself in. You approach the battlefield to get crumpled in less than a second by some zesty corn-fed simpleton archer from 30 yards away.

Early FH and beta was so good, I miss it.

Arrows would simply bounce off most suits of plate. Might knock your head a bit if they ring your helmet like a bell, but they're not penetrating steel plate. There's a reason people paid a lot of money for suits of plate: they worked. The best way to beat somebody in plate was to gang up on him and pin him down, or knock his helmet off. Arrows and crossbow quarrels were basically a nuisance at worst to anyone in full plate. In massed fire, though, they could achieve the objective of knocking them on their ass. A short range arrow or bolt from a powerful enough bow would be sufficient to stagger or knock back somebody in plate. So being hit by like 20 such missiles in quick succession would lay him out pretty easily.

would you rather be:

civilized man with a refined white man's weapon

or

spear chucking tribal

Yeah but guns would go right through.

I'd rather be a spear chucker, Guns are for pussies.

one full kit of platemail armor and weapons could probably be used to create 20 spears
can one giga knight beat 20 spearmen?
the meta for spears was to make them long as fuck and get 50 dudes in a group to poke enemies from 15 feet away
knights were more along the lines of 1v1 bodyguards for royalty

one full kit of platemail armor and weapons could probably be used to create 20 spears

More like 200

SHIELD WALL

Expensive as fuck to beat pointy sticks, hard to wear (get into and move around in and see anything)

local bully not so tough after getting BONKED

a spear being flailed around is far less dangerous on its side

Are you under the impression that spears have conical heads? They are bladed weapons. Spears can and do cut. Not to mention getting bashed by a spear (~1300-1800 grams) doesn't feel any nicer than a baseball bat (~800-1400 grams), especially with the superior leverage/velocity a spear has if one were to really swing it. No two spears are the same as well; some may be specially designed for slashing and some may have heavier or lighter shafts.

All that to say 1v1 vs a spear, bet on the spear 9 out of 10 times.

Very good big boy, too bad crossbows still went right through it

I'm sure many spears were the same in history, unless you talking about something silly like 0.01 mm shorter

spears are the white man's weapon. see: the greeks and macedonians mogging the shit out of the persian armies with their superior arms and armor.

Yes, everyone went to Ye Olde Mart of Wall's to get their standard mass-produced Spear of the Year edition armaments. There can't possibly be any variation over the thousands of years that spears have existed.

Too long didn't read

No two spears are the same as well;

Maybe you meant no two types of spears are the same, which would have been redundant regardless

lmao you pedantic dick

What now armor fags?

All that to say 1v1 vs a spear, bet on the spear 9 out of 10 tim--

BANGBANGBANGBANG

what do the little isopods mean?

Can't help myself._.

All weapons are ultimately a subset of spears, so spears always win.
Sword? Just a bigger knife, which is a shorter spear to start with.
Bow? It shoots spears.
Gun? Just a modernized bow shooting modernized spears.
Spearchads eternally winning, die mad faggot.

just throw tiny arrows very fast directly at your opponent

Explain to me why wouldn't this work?

Hahaha spear-virgin can't get through my armor!

Spear user actually has a halberd and jams a 6 foot+ long pick-head right through your helmet's strongest point

Lol, get polearm'd

warhammer chads BTFO platelets

Sword? Just a bigger knife

Almost, more like a big dagger, despite popular belief, their main purpose is to stab, slashing is secondary. (beside ones like exe swords)

*halfswords u*

Less range than a polearm, try again, nerd.

Still a spear, thus spears still win

but what if you half-sworded a sweihander to make a ghetto poleaxe

REMINDER:
Spears are for large formations. You can't actually 1v1 with a spear.

I 1v1'd your mom with this spear last night, damn that pussy nice!

youtube.com/watch?v=igaQww59NY0
ohnonono

dodge and grab your spear

duck under your sword

bonk you in the head, killing you instantly

Rocks are the real chad weapon, there's no counter to it.

Half Sword

Point weapon towards enemy and sprint

REEEEEE

Wins 20 row straight.

You can't actually 1v1 with a spear

Except for all those times people 1v1'd with spears, and all those times people won said 1v1's with spears
You're getting confused with pikes.

So I've always wondered why is a cloak effective against a rapier but something similar could work against a spear? Just a heavy piece of leather that can catch the tip, wrap around or get tangled, and let you control the position of the enemy's weapon.

I'm unable to find the source but it most likely has to do with the metallurgy of the heads, highlighting unhardened or forge-welded areas.

Not really, for polearms in general, if you cloak their head, it won't be as deadly, sure, but the shaft is still gonna give them ample striking power and enough range to keep you at bay. You'd basically turn it into a quarterstaff.

How did people use the giant 2handed Dark Souls swords irl? By the time they were invented, half or full plate was already standard issue for infantryman meaning a bigass sword wouldn't cut

You've never actually held a spear and it shows

Except the spear wielders have way better leverage than you especially with using two hands. Meaning, it is easier for them to overpower your grab attempt.

cloth "works" vs rapier because your whole arm has more "torsion" than the wrist of the rapier user. you tangle the tip on your cloth and then twist it off your opponent's hand. an spear is typically used 2 handed. so even if you manage to tangle the spear tip on your cloth, he can use his whole body weight to pull back probably.

Same, I'd say it was mostly decent for like a year or so, started going downhill, hit a trench with the chinese niggas, peaked again with Black Prior as the best shield character, and then nose-dived forever.

I know it was busted but wall splat infiniting people with pic related was so fun

You use a weapon with already bad leverage and made its leverage even fucking worse. In almost all situation the spear wielder will overpower you.

Final boss

People don't understand that trying to grab a spear is like trying to grab the bladed part of a knife from a guy trying to stab you.

By not fully extending the spear you create a space I call the death zone. To brush aside the spear requires entering this zone (which is in easy reach of the spear) and then pushing it aside. The spear man simply stabs you as you advance.

Also brushing a spear away is not as easy as people make it sound. The spear acts as a great lever and the spear pushes the sword down exposing the swordsman. The swordsman HAD to use two hands to push the spear. If that is the case he couldn't be holding a shield (this may be negated by your left arm technique.)

If the spear man has room to move back (unlikely in a battle, but in single combat very likely.) I maintain that it is nearly impossible for a swordsman to win. Even with extensive skill and practice. Obviously heavy armor and shields gave the swordsmen a great advantage. But that is not the topic of discussion.

spears are actually the ultimate weapons in demon's souls. it's EZ mode

That'll do it

thats great but what about a bigger rock?

a bigger rock

Cruel, evil, dishonorable, unchristian
Pope please ban this

those aren't rocks. those are stones

The supermassive two-handed swords ("zweihänder") were intended to counter polearms, and on occasion as anti-cavalry weapons, and were used similarly to polearms in practice.

macedonians

>>>>>>>white

how do you counter a pike with a sword that's only 1/3rd its length

scythechads > all

You swing at the haft of the pike in order to cut off the tip

Anon's retarded, the Zweihander was designed to get the benefit of a polearm (reach and striking power) on a sword.

Ok but everyone already has a spear, what now fuckboy?

what's the point of having a shield in a suit of full plate

Spear chucking is the refined white man's weapon.

You fight in a formation, parry the shafts away, and charge. If you think that sounds suicidal, that's because it was. The men that fought this way were paid enough to make it worth it, and wore their wealth on the battlefield as a statement.

can one giga knight beat 20 spearmen?

20 men would pin down an heavily armored opponent and stab him to death with a dagger.
Usually you'd have a bunch of man catchers in there as well to make the task easier.
You might lose one or two people in the process tho.

ah yes a set of armor that would be in the hands of few people and certainly not what the average pleb was wearing

where are the rapiers huh? How come these games with all these cool weapons dont let you play the pokey pokey sword?

Toss your spear into their formation to jam them up and maybe score a few free wounds.

wouldn't those wild swings just knock away your own guys' pikes at the same time?

cant imagine its easy to be effect with that. you essentially get one hit before they get within battering distance

go back to your soi board dude

Either bodyguards or proxy wars. Have your knights duel to settle arguments instead of wasting hundreds of men on a big fight. Of course that didn't always pan out and they still had a purpose on the battlefield besides that.

you stab them if they're not wearing armor
you beat them with the hammer head if they are wearing armor
you choke your grip and halfsword them to the ground with the pole if they get close
you've got an answer to everything
polearms are the uncontested dueling kings of the early modern era

well those guys would be behind you holding back as you try to open a path for them.

"Wild swings" aren't really in the repertoire. Unless in a 1v1 scenario, they were used similarly to polearms. Having a polearm that is essentially a big sword gave them the advantage they needed to do their job.

They're pretty versatile tools, stab, strike, shape make it easy to hook and block.
Just because your weapon is long doesn't mean you have to hold it at the bottom of the shaft and swing it like a club.

why do most mspaint comics on Anon Babble have grammar or spelling errors?

Qué?

drags you to the ground

effortlessly pokes your special places a few dozen times

Nothin' personnel, kiddo...

My man. 80% of my time was playing Centurion and 20% Lawbringer. By the time they added the chinks I was already long gone. I did try to go back a couple times but wasn't doable since it was hard (impossible) for me to find matches with decent ping and only super sweats remained.

The greeks exclusively used epic swords because they realized spears were for Mr. Lobe and niggers.

what's the advantage of a zwei over a halberd?

What if you put a magnesium road flare at the end of a spear?

all these retards who don't know what a "knightly" spear is

So that nerds know you're serious business obviously

Couldn't you just bonk armored opponents with the handle of the Zweihander like you could with smaller swords?

None. And vice versa. They are different tools for different jobs. It's like asking what the advantage of a bolt is over a screw. Both seek to accomplish similar things, but have different use cases.

Space control. Zweihanders were lighter then halberds. Though to be really fair its not like halberd couldnt be used in that way, in reality it was just preference, and a giant sword is a bit more awe inspiring or fearsome.

Why couldn't you use polearms to deflect pike heads?

Polearms were the counter to plate kniggers historically...

they did, plenty of spears have hooks to catch limbs or in this instance the spear.

Me on the left (I may swap to spear and shield while still wearing full plate)

I wonder why breaking spear formations with big swords worked in real life. Japan in the far east developed the same method with the Nodachi for breaking spear formations until matchlocks replaced the role. Looks goofy as fuck, but somehow worked well enough for them to pass down the school as Nodachi Jigen Ryu.

Zweihander Europe -_-

Zweihander Japan °○°

Vermintide

Who said you couldn't? You could, and some polearms were made with that specifically in mind. The big swords were just also developed and used, though the obvious caveats are that the swords were a lot more expensive and required special practice.

They did.
Polearms main counter are other polearms, that's why they all sorta get down to the same shape (stabbing point, shape to hook)

pike squares approach

dopplechads rush out of the formations

do this motion with their zweis youtube.com/shorts/qVzKlTyxtZY

enemy pikeheads are deflected by the huge figure 8 motions

dopplechads rush in and cause chaos

pikemen follow behind and start stabbing

simple as 4head

In the end, everyone loses to unga bunga R1 spam

to be fair nodachi's can basically be used like a spear. The big bonus is, even if you close in to someone with with a zwei or a nodachi, they still got a long blade you have to deal with, which makes its really good for that kind of confrontation, meanwhile a halberd or spear its, just the front end.

Cooler

Only daggers are effective at grappling range, every other weapon you can close the distance on and then they're useless. Guns, spears, swords, all SHIT! Just dodge roll and get close.

*stabs through your plate*
lmao
imagine using all these fancy weapons and being klilled by a pointy stick. Spear and clubs are gigachad weapons because they are literal sticks and still as effective as anything that isn't using gunpowder

I recently found out that maces apparently sucked complete ass.

100 Armored Knights with spears VS 1 armored gorilla with a Poleaxe

Shut up

see a sword for the first time

instantly realize that it is the romantic ideal of melee weapons and intrinsically the best of them all

Yup, it doesn't get get any better than this. Swords are the way to go.

you can always choke up your grip with the spear.

Dex vs Str

Why didn't anyone use the mikiri counter? It beats all polearms

Correct, but the zwei in this case, is supposed to be parrying and pushing your spear away with fast wide cleaves. Even if you pull back your grip you still got a huge long fucking blade raining down on you.

yup, turns out human strength is alot more effective with a sharp end then a blunt one

They're short (otherwise they're unhandy)
They only have a small killing area
That killing area require a wide swing to be really effective
Needing to swing the weapon makes it inaccurate
Needing to swing the weapon also makes you predictable
It's absolutely useless against armor
They have no handguard so you need a shield with it

"Spear formations" are armed with pikes, big long heavy pointy sticks that aren't going to be moving around much. It's not some lone fag with a fancier pointy stick only as long as he is tall; it's a hundred dudes who are going to be largely stationary because those bros are prepped to turn horses into pincushions by not moving.
A big fucking sword swatting a bunch of pikes down to the ground is simple physics.

Yeah, and in general the effectiveness of blunt damage also have been severely exaggerated.
Turns out armor is much better at dissipating force when it covers a broad area than a tight hit. Plate armor in fact completely negate it.

What is the Zweihander user meant to do against an armored opponent?

Weapon discussions on the internet

Swordfags cry about how they can beat spears (They don't)

Spearfags reign supreme

rapierfags and estocfags get into arguements about who wins against who, both still get trounced like everyone else by long pointy stick

Axefags chime in somewhere

Macefags and morningstarfags get into arguements

God forbid someone brings up nunchucks

Discussion dies for for a bit

Sycthefags shit up the thread

LongBowfags and Crossbowfags get into arguements about power to rate of fire

Specialistfags post their weaponfu once and then fuck off

Lancefags fear the spearwall, but thrash everything else

I think I got it all

Stab stab stab, half-sword and stab, hook and try to disarm your opponent, close the gap then try to stab the guy with your dagger.

Needing to swing the weapon also makes you predictable

That's where the skill comes in. Everyone thinks maces have no finesse but that couldn't be further from the truth. A skilled mace wielder uses intuition and prediction in order to land the most devastating blows. You don't aim the mace at where your opponent is. You aim to where you're predicting your opponent will be when you've finished the swing.

nothing really, your best bet would to half sword it and aim for opening in the armor or disarm them. They were not remotely made for armor, but then again. Basically no weapons were. Plate did make you basically invincible..

This is propaganda by knightcels afraid of their natural enemy

short

The better for 5 peasants to tackle and club you with

small killing area, needing to swing

Skill issue

inaccurate

Who needs accuracy when you're being swarmed by peasantchads

predictable

Predict this mace to your face!

useless against armour

Knightcel propaganda

no handguard

Guard this!

Minmax str and use cleave.

he can't chop a guy wearing full plate in two

Pathetic, apply yourself.

Woah... it's just like Rise of the Ronin

i wonder how effective it would be to flip it over and try getting the gaps in the neck with the guard. you're at a disadvantage because of how long the thing is so its hard to balance it, but I'm pretty sure armored opponents struggle more defending from overhead strikes.

Or you can stab. It's much more difficult to defend against stabbing because it's extremely fast and accurate.

Platemail

This is a word invented in the 1970s by Americlaps for D&D. Platemail isn't a real thing.
The word you are looking for is just "plate" or "plate armour"

Well lucky for you, that was the actual tactic. If you got armored gloves on, turn it into a hammer!

Melee is a fucking meme.

Why didn't they just wrestle an armored opponent? A double leg takedown would bring any knight to the ground.

Spearfags

WHY USE ANYTHING ELSE! SPEAR BEATS EVERYTHING!

History keeps making different weapons

If there was truly one weapon that could beat everything in every situation it would have BEEN the only weapon that stuck around. Every weapon that was used at some scale had a niche.

just throw tiny arrows very fast at your opponent

This wouldn't work

muh armor!

try marching with that shit on dumbfuck

Thats exactly what happened. Going for a gap would take forever, wrestling them down was alot easier.

why are you afraid of snakes? Just ugh, grab them by the throad

No weapon was used at the same scale as spears though. It wasn't niche.

*marches 40 miles with armor* wow that was easy, ok now what retard

Everyone talking about the range meta made me miss the old souls pvp when your weapon's range actually did matter a lot because you couldn't just *instant transmissions* *shoots excalibast* *psshh nuthin personnel* at the enemy with a billion different ashes of war that apply to every weapon type

now do it again
and again
and again
and again for months on end while being ready to fight for hours at any point

that would not be a problem, armor was not at all heavy, its weight is evenly distributed across your enitre body.

Fun fact: Knights were people who trained since early childhood to fight and also wear armor.
They could literally wear that shit for days without issues. Even the heaviest set of plate armor isn't that heavy or cumbersome to begin, but their physique really helped as well.
Now of course, armor does hinder movement a bit and can be a bit hot, so they usually had servants around who could carry it around for them, so they wouldn't wear it all the time.

Based

*does it again 7 times*

there done, sorry you're weak get womped bozo

you gonna sleep with it on?

Melee becoming a meme is up there with the agricultural and industrial revolutions in terms of "events that made everything go wrong"

heheh, what if some sickly pasty unfit nerd could easily kill gigachad by pulling a trigger? Wouldn't that be great?

further exacerbated by extremely cringe drone warfare

Slings and bows were a mistake, men shouldn't be able to kill each other without locking eyes up close first.

For me its pike and shot

You could. But that would be pointless..

But that would be pointless

lol
lmao

Have you ever actually tried to grab at a spear when someone's trying to jab at you with one? Did you know you're not fucking Naruto and you're more likely to get your wrist cut or hand punctured if you try to do that? No, you didn't, because your understanding of medieval combat comes from Reddit University

Is this ARK pvp?

Because they were on armored horseback. Humans are not strong even if they have a sharp stick. Armor is incredibly tough for us to pierce through and a horse's armor is no different. A braced peasant spearman would not be able to withstand a horse running into the tip of his spear. He would immediately be pushed backwards while even with the horse's velocity its armor would not be pierced. You'd need to be a very fit veteran of the battlefield with a heavier polearm to properly brace against an armored horse, and not even that would kill the horse or anything.
Thus, your entire platoon dies before you ever get an opportunity to down one of the horses and grapple the actual knight on foot. Even then you'd be totally disorganized and the knight can easily retreat back toward his side, which is currently dominating you so it's not like you have a chance to chase him. Knights just didn't die. If you're wearing chainmail and full body plate at the same time the only thing you're dying from is disease and other medieval shenanigans.

That's why people fight in formations.

It's funny, they think they're people.

First off knights are trained since childhood, second off if you have the funds or backing to acquire a full set of plate armor you likely also have access to a horse.

Peasants were too poor to afford the massive amounts of steel needed to make a mace.

Implying a mace had to be made out of steel

lole

Yeah, usually you'd find wooden club for law enforcement, but very quickly the only people who were using maces on the battlefield were heavy cavalry.

that happened literally all the time, there are old combat manuals demonstrating a fight between two plate wearers each trying to stick their knife somewhere mid-wrestle

Well, one that would do anything, yeah.

reminders spears are patethic weapons france armed the irish with millions of spears and the rebellion failed because anglos effortlessly chopped off the top of the spear and made it just a lump of useless, this was the spears real life combat ability outside of tranime and gooner emblem

Reddit fervently believes in the biblically accurate superiority of the spear over all else, so I wouldn't use that as an insult here.

the assault rifle of melee combat

Reminder: The reason a polehammer is effective against armor isn't because it's a hammer. It's because it's a polearm.

plate armour?

lmaooo

I find it very funny that most duel involving plate armor ends up in hobo knife fight on the floor.

Not necessarily, for example King Robert the Bruce brained a dude in armour with his warhammer.

Realistically is there any counter to a fully armored man sprinting at you with a knife? If you had enough gear a fully army of this could probably beat anything of equal numbers, and maybe at least 3x more than themselves.

That's why I said most, not all.

marbles on the floor

Realistically is there any counter to a fully armored man sprinting at you with a knife?

Strength in number. It's not guaranteed to save you personally, but it's better than nothing.
Alone? Well if you're extremely lucky he'll have a brain aneurysm and you can run away, but realistically, no.

My armchair is better than 5000 years of human history

Go fight someone

If the spear man has room to move back (unlikely in a battle, but in single combat very likely.) I maintain that it is nearly impossible for a swordsman to win. Even with extensive skill and practice. Obviously heavy armor and shields gave the swordsmen a great advantage. But that is not the topic of discussion.

this 1000000%
i have literally done this kind of fighting before as recreation and i can tell you right now that if i have a sword and they have a spear, if they have any room to maneuver, there is no chance of me winning, period. even a rank novice will win against an expert swordsman with a spear and room to move
your technique literally does not matter in that situation and the spear's leverage means that even if youre much stronger than them, they can still control the movement of weapons. and all they have to do is step back, which is instinctual and automatc in most people, and wham, you cant reach them but they can still reach you

i fucking HATED fighting spears, rapiers, and any other long thrust-based weapon because of that. compeltely fucking anti-fun

crossbow.

That reminds me that all M&B games have patchnotes where they nerfed stabbing speed because it turns out stabbing is so fast at normal speed it's very hard to parry.

straps a hammer to the end of the spear

nothin personnel kiddo

Saar do not redeem wojak

Your shaft grabbing skills must be world class to consider such a thing. You would've been invaluable on the front lines.

dwemer quarterstaff - the weapon of kings

Just put anything at the end of it and it just shit on armor.
Bills and voulges are literally

what if we put a cleaver at the end of a long stick

ESL retard do not respond

Why a hammer? I imagine a heavy ass blade would be a better bludgeon than any hammer, honestly. Edge of the blade will be dull and chipped to hell, but it was going to get fucked up no matter what.

arcanum, kingdom come 2

warfare is reddit if you think about it. everyone is just trying to downvote and report each other

Melee is mostly for defending your archers while they get all the kills.

this webm

That's just Battle Brothers.
For whatever reason they made the ranged AI always target the one bro with the lowest ranged defense.

will goliathfags ever get over it?

projectile weapons beating melee weapons are definitionally a jewish fairytale

Woah...

that precision

how did they do it bros?

it's some crackpot theory. same nonsense as "make a ship sail against the winds and currents by lighting a bonfire under her decks"

youtube.com/watch?v=cCwTYfLmfK0

throwing a rock might have predated the first melee weapon. you're retarded. reality was that the sickly peasants were sent to the front while chad's biceps drew a 150 pound longbow.

"Chad" in this case being a moderately less sickly, higher status peasant uselessly firing arrows that ping off of a Knight's breastplate.

uselessly

PAHAHHAHAHA

Counterarguments? None? I thought as much of you.

Archers consistently decimated battlefields until firearms hit their stride. There's nothing to argue about it's just facts.

Let me guess, you're thinking about the battle of Agincourt. That's remembered specifically because archers doing anything useful was considered a bizarre anomaly. It's the exception that proves the rule.

why a hammer

Retard. Because a hammer concentrates the force of a blow in a place, which is what you want when dealing with plate armor. A blade would not have the same pinpoint impact.

the impact zone of a hammer is the face of the hammer, which could be anything from the size of a postage stamp to like, the width of your palm

the impact zone of a sword is literally a microscopic edge or point which is maybe a dozen or two atoms long

???

What if you like... walk backwards?

Do you understand how force distribution works?

why didnt medieval warriors just attach bombs to their melee weapons?

If you walked backward in a medieval battle you would fucking DIE. Cobblers designed the shoes with smooth soles so that you could only march forward, and anything else would cause you to slip and trip.

A hammer isn't an effective weapon against armor, the more you spread out the energy of the impact, the easiest it is to dissipate.
Polehammers works because the hammer head is extremely thin, and you have a long shaft to increase the power of the strike. But even then you have two pikes just in case.

A blade would not have the same pinpoint impact.

Swords, beside falchion and executioner swords, are literally designed for stabbing.

If we're talking surface area, then wouldn't a pick be even better? Either way, a blade still has lower surface area than a hammer face.

Nigger do you understand the concept of mass and concentration of force?

archers doing anything useful was considered a bizarre anomaly

name the fuckwit historian who managed to convince you of this. At least I hope someone convinced you of this because being fed bad information is not as embarrassing as coming to that conclusion all of your own.

Sorry twink, had a big meal before this battle(every day I have been alive). Gonna take me a year to starve.

Gunpowder took a long time be truly reliable. Cannons for a long time were

I hope to fucking God this thing doesn't obliterate me and everyone around when I light up the fuse

This is complete projection and heavily revealing that you "absorbed" your facts from Lindybeige sucking off English archers across hundreds of youtube videos, rather than a serious medieval education.

Polehammers have both a spear head and a pick, along with a thin hammerhead.

Swordfags, what would be the best alloy/material that we can make with modern tech to make an absurdly good sword to the point where if you sent that shit back time to the medieval ages, it would be treated like Excalibur

Uranium

"Scientists" are fucking retarded and horrible at inventing things so we still don't have any material superior to high-quality steel, which would essentially be what the richfags at the time had anyway.

Steel is still the best material to make a sword out of, everything else either doesn't hold as good of an edge or doesn't handle the shock of an impact as well.

why, my peanus weenus of course :)

This reminds me of when Cobra JFS said that mace would never stop anyone because all you have to do is block it with your hand

You jest but there are literally fencing manuals that tell you to counter maces like that. They really weren't very good weapons. If you shove your hand in as the macefag winds up, he's done.

Funny how throughout history height goes up and down with technology.

In the beginning, the biggest manliest soldier would crush all others.

Missiles made tall guys less useful as front line soldiers, better at being projectile throwers

Armor made tall guys useful in the front line again

Guns made smaller targets more useful

Artillery killed everyone so it didn't matter anymore

If they have decent armor you're basically not getting through it no matter what you hit them with. So instead of making a light weapon that can concentrate force on a small area you might as well just hit them with a heavier weapon that can apply more overall force. With the goal of fucking them up enough that you can find a chance to stab them in an unarmored spot.

zero fucking clue who that is. The way you jumped straight to that bizarre conclusion makes me wonder if your archery denial stems from a deep seated envy or hatred of a youtuber that does archery

Your refusal to capitalize letters proves you are an indeed a brainrotted zoomer, and your attempts to backpedal and deny the truth are too blatant now.

y-you're just jealous of me!

Mace, the melee weapon or the spray?

halberds haven't had a good move set in a souls game since ds1

Armies were all equipped with spears because it was the cheapest and fastest option that worked. It's a wooden pole with a bit of sharp metal. Time and resources needed to equip the same army with swords&shields would be incomparable.

Tactical tidbits were a side-effect. Spears were winning wars because economy and logistics win wars, always.

What if there was a country with an even better economy that could afford to outfit every individual soldier with giant WW2 tanks? How would've that affected history?

plate scrub coming at me

no worries ill just jog 300 feet to the left at a brisk yet comfortable pace

Shields were pretty common, and many infantry used to have sidearms like a falchion (which is just a big knife) or an axe.

get outpaced and anally raped by a dude in plate armor because he thought plate armor is heavy or cumbersome

How? Plate armor didn't have erect enough cock plates to allow for penetration.

Just regular good steel. Tons of it. We could bring an entire bag of swords made out of high quality steel.

Yeah pretty much. Though our steel quality and production methods are way better, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if some bargain bin sword you'd find at a renaissance fair would btfo swords that were considered well made back in those days.

it would be an expensive waste

Crotch plates were rarely a thing, usually the lower body have less protection or the pieces could be moved around so the user could pull their dick out (to take a leak)

stainless steel

Reminder that medieval "iron" was often actually lead, heavily contaminated, or dark tinted clay, and even the most skeletal Anon Babble user could bend a sword in half with his bare hands. Everyone back then was malnourished and low IQ.

Realistically you wouldn't bother with that level of logistic, you'd just pay your men and they'll buy their own shit, that's why armies often wore completely mismatched pieces.

Mordhau after the eastern invasion update.

Everyone back then was malnourished and low IQ.

And everything was brown and nobles torched their own fief for funsies because they hated peasants.

which would essentially be what the richfags at the time had anyway

no one had anything remotely close to modern maraging steel

I love these so much but they suck in videogames.

Cancer magic?

just put a thin metal sheet between you and the other's guy weapon bro, it'll totally protect you

The term bullet proof stems from how many yards away a breastplate was proof against bullets. You're still dealing with the knock but not the piercing damage.

medieval armor actually could actually fully resist modern fire arms but they routinely compromised it by shooting it with a gun to make sure, which made it unable to stand up to future shooting

Were they stupid? We might be still be using spears and swords if they never did that.

more speculation in place of arguments

yes anon, everyone who acknowledges the fact archers were valuable in battle is a youtuber trying to disguise himself in order to shill bows and arrows centuries after the fact.

Villages constantly burnt down from all the open flame burning torches they had on all the walls as their only light source. The concept of fun was invented in the 1850s, most people sat around and watched their weakest child starve to death for entertainment.

Came here to poleaxe post. Mah fucking nigga

most people sat around and watched their weakest child starve to death for entertainment.

Now I imagine an entire village cheering as they watch two children starve to death

GO GO GO YOU CAN DO IT C'MON JUST STOP BREATHING YEAH THAT'S IT LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOO

Mount_and_Blade_Bannerlord.webm

arrows are ridiculously OP in that game

literally just walk at your spear wall until you slightly break formation and then massacres you

nothn personnel

ENTER

not modern fire arms, but the fire arms at their time.

a skeleton

WE'RE BONED

spear with a gun strapped to the end of it is the best combo

what are ya gonna do? harvest some wheat? LOL!

A fire lance? Or a handgonne?

What if we made the whole length of the spear a barrel for the gun? We could even call it a trifle, as it'd be no trifling matter.

Modern steel with a graphene composite core. Some modern alloys are mindbending even today. Modern armor would probably be more impressive to them because of how light it can be made.

akchually it's "brigandine"

If melee was such a meme then why did soldiers hand make bludgeoning weapons in ww1 trench warfare? Just use a machine gun bro.

They did and weapons evolved into pointy/daggar/blunt punching weapons to counter this which is why they were typically on horseback. Now imagine a horse that has been rage addled into a war horse complete with hedgehog implements

Implying they didn't have lodestones.

They would laugh at the poor quality and lack of craftsmanship. They would laugh even harder if we told them that we thought swords were primarily used in war.

modern armor like kevlar doesn't do shit against swords and knives and axes though. its literally ONLY good against bullets

bullet*
once it takes a hit its worthless

a dipshit herder on a horse?

AIIIEEEEEEEEE CRASSUS WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO RUN OUT OF ARROWS????

CRASSUS YOU FUCKING FAGGOT THEY ARE NOT RUNNING OUT OF ARROWS AAAAAAIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE

If horses were so good why didn't knights invent steroids to feed to their stallions?

More. Spears were cheap as fuck to make. Platemail was a delicate piece of smothing art. You could probably get 1000 spears for the price of oneset of full plate armor. Maybe even more.

did that nigga march into the desert with no cavalry or archers or what

That is a tool for agriculture anon

1000

try about 50,000
theres a reason why only lords, nobles, and knights employed by lords and nobles had plate armor sets

AND it can kill people!
I'd like to see your spear harvest wheat, faggot.

Walked into flat terrain, got surrounded by horse archers, tried to take a defensive position

Just wait until they run out of arrows!

They never did because horse archers usually have people to refill arrows their on the go.

I was thinking more along the lines of composite plate armor. They'd lose their minds if you showed them a helmet with a ballistic visor

Just rotate it like a helicopter, dumbass

yeah his soldiers are well fed GOOD LUCK

ACKKKKKKKKKKK

wooden bullets shot with compressed air

Bet you twelve groschen that the smith's boy dies of plague before the next viking invasion

nice way to never be able to use that hand again lmao

take the nagamakipill

get a nodachi with a really long handle

just give em a cattleprod

Nobody in this thread knows what they're talking about

Fallout

average warhammer enjoyer

try about 50,000

Considering the fact that even someone with no smithing experience could probably forge a decent spearhead, I actually believe what you are saying is true.
In fantasy RPG terms a spear could be like 5 copper (mostly because the metal itself was expensive), while plate armor is 1000 gold.

blunt spear

You'll show some respect for this man's dildo.

Can you imagine the look that wenches must give you when you're such a coward that you wear plate mail?

Their pussies get wet at shirtless barbarian chads and you're clanking around in a fucking tuna can like a prissy little bitch.

hammers are bad because... uhhhh... DERP

Brown subhuman.

retard grabs the stick part of your spear just behind the spearhead during your fight

he's using one hand to grab it, you're holding the spear with two hands, inherent strength and leverage advantage

you yank it back with your full strength and slice one of his hands wide open as the spears blade slides through it

while he's pissing and shitting himself over the open wound in his hand you stick the spear in his throat

You mad bro?

Martial art manuals were nonsense peddled by charlatans. Nothing written in them should be seen as facts.

Bruh is that a SPEAR???

YOOOO

mmhmm
meanwhile if you were a master smith who could produce plate armor (and yes you had to be a master to do it anywhere nera to the quality level a noble/knight/lord would demand), you were incredibly well off, for a commoner

master smiths were usually some of the richest commoners around, second only to those jew banker usurers. big town house, servants, nice food, education for your children (though the son almost always followed in his father's footsteps to become a smith too), and on top of it all, the local lord or noble who you provide and maintain armor for has a vested interest in keeping you safe, alive, and happy. the town's master smith was practically sacrosanct. you couldnt touch him without the lord mobilizing everything he had to come down on your ass, since his life literally depended on the smith's armor

starts using a poleaxe

starts using longer pike spear

kills horse

knight cuck gets captured

bringing farmer tool on the battlefield

Ah, a desperate one.

Spears over swords. Biblically accurate angels. Peasants defeating nobles. The superiority of the middle-east to medieval Europe. Archery being the most important factor in combat. Letting other men fuck your wife. The Goedendag. The concept of easily bypassing a ch*d's plate armor.
Yep. That's the good stuff.

uhhhhh anon letting other men fuck your wife is cuck shit
also medieval europe is and always was suprioer to the middle east, those goat fuckers

halberd exists

Lmao, nothing personnel kid

*dies from lung cancer at 28*

actually sorta true, fencing schools were everywhere, and each one had their teachings

Cassius specifically switched to fighting with a staff so he could go non-lethal and it's considered a significant power-down compared to the """secret""" sword style he previously used.

hes a smith not a coal miner, anon
way, WAY more common to die mid 60's from having worn out your back and have arthritis like hell

Cooler spear

The good thing about a spear is you get to keep your distance.
If you can't pierce his armor that's fine, you just back away and try to go for joints or visors.
Even if you can't hurt him you can use the separ to physically keep the other guy at bay.

I would vastly prefer having to mine coal over shoving tons of coal into a furnance every day and turning it into noxious coal gas that fills up the tiny smithery.

In a duel I'd rather have a dagger if both are in full plate, rush in and grapple, stab in openings.

they would probably do literally anything including selling their children to get with a knight

wow cool pitchfork. Gonna kill some hay with the scythe guy?

If you played half-sword you would know that wiggling a scythe near someone's waist causes them to instantly explode in half.

Uhmm flails aren't realistic my dude.... my brother in christ, they probably didn't even exist