The great debate
The great debate
Black Mesa
No reason not to play Black Mesa, IMO. It fixes almost everything and expands where it fits.
Except for Xen. It's a horrible slog, especially the factory maps.
And original Half Life was somehow better?
both are great, who gives a shit? there is no debate
played black mesa and im very happy i did, enjoyed it thoroughly, tho the enemies had really lazer sharp aim at times.
the soundtrack the rare time it kicked in was amazing
Yes, Xen in the original was far better because it was over far quicker.
The issue with Xen was that it was too long and half of it sucked at best
The solution was NOT to make it three times as long with more spectacle
Black Mesa and its expanded Xen parts is cool as hell. Anybody that wants to start with Black Mesa and ignore the original Half-Life, they may do so, and I say this as someone that played the original Half-Life at launch and have completed it many times.
black mesa had that giant alien run with the nice music in xen + best smg i've ever fired in a long while so probably that.
Both are good but I think Black Mesa really nailed the sense of escalation in the surface tension chapters over HL
Both are good, however:
Half-life
Dated in many places
Xen is unfinished
Level design isn't as good as it used to be
Black Mesa
HOLY FUCK THEY RUINED THE MARINES. They're a slog to fight now.
Tries too hard to be cinematic
Xen was improved, but then they made it last way too long
the devs aren't using their talent to make a new original linear singeplayer FPS in a time where there's a massive drought of them (that aren't adhd boomer shooters)
instead they're making some multiplayer roguelike slop that will die a week after release
what fucking talent? they didnt design shit. xen was retarded bullshit puzzles every 30 seconds. you dont need talent to remake an already existing game.
Tries too hard to be cinematic
Sometimes it works, like when you bring survivors in Office Complex to that elevator shaft jump and they all talk amongst each other how retarded that is.
But sometimes it doesn't, like when the military take over and the VOX system suddenly glitches out AND GETS EEEEVILLLL.
The original just had the announcement system talking normally, even when it's being used to lie to scientists to go to their deaths. It felt more real and more disturbing.
man i was probably still in middle school when they announced black mesa source back then, imo they probably want a break from that
Based on the thread so far, Black Mesa is the way to go. But tell me bros, for a first experience, Black Mesa or OG Half-life with the VR mod?
aight go remake max payne for me then and have it up on steam by next week
Half-Life is better in every way.
The encounter design in BM is totally borked because as far I as know from what I played they used normal Source AI where the original was heavily scripted.
The gunplay in Black Mesa is just HL2's with the only interesting weapon removed and the level design in Black Mesa is bad. I suppose it looks pretty and has a nice soundtrack, but Half-Life looks good too and has a better soundtrack.
Black Mesa
We have Half Life at home
Level design isn't as good as it used to be
What are you smoking? The level design in Half-Life is great.
Half-Life is a better game all around than Black Mesa, and Black Mesa changes the atmosphere, gameplay. and story so much that its a completely different game. It doesn't replace anything and is at best supplemental.
It fixes almost everything and expands where it fits.
Cuts On A Rail, a genuinely good level hated only by retards who just sit like cattle on the train when you're clearly not meant to
Makes the Marines aimbots and removes anything iconic about them. No more cool radio chat voices, they don't constantly chatter to themselves so you can prepare for ambushes anymore (which was the point), and they're basically spongey, annoying Combine now.
Xen starts off better but ends up worse somehow. In its desperation to have an epic final showdown, forces you to slog through a neverending take on the super gravity gun bit from HL2
Far too many self-references
Combat feels shitty, everything outside of headcrabs has far too much health even on Black Mesa (normal) difficulty, making the guns feel weak
Tries too hard to make the game in general a "cinematic" experience, as said. The original HL was just some scientist trying to escape the worlds worst day at work while being lucky enough to be sealed in super power armor during it. BM just feels like an action movie Neill Blomkamp would direct these days. It would still be one of his better movies all the same.
So how is Black Mesa with the restoration mods anyway
Sounds like it's worth doing both, but overall HL VR would be the best first experience?
I heard they are currently remaking Half Life again in UE5, set to release in 2040.
that guy hates black mesa, btw.
This. The arenas the BM team use for the fights are based off Half-Life's own levels, which were carefully tailored for the HECU's AI to use.
But the BM HECU don't give a fuck and run around everywhere using a modified Combine AI and these areas weren't designed for it. The result is either bullshit or them running at you in straight lines. It's shit design and of course the zoomers wowed by the better graphics don't see it.
restoration mods
what's that
They are both worth playing, but HL VR? Probably not.
I'd say the vanilla game is the best first experience. If you're dead set on VR I'd say HL1 since its got full motion support, a quest port, and is the better game.
I don't hate it. Its just not that good. It was good enough for me to complete it once and not regret my purchase, it wasn't good enough to ever make me replay it to completion. Meanwhile I've played Half-Life more times than I can count. I even went out and bought the PS2 version because I wanted to play that version too.
There were mods for restoring On A Rail and Surface Tension.
The great debate
That's not a real debate - Black Mesa is almost a definitive improvement (though I didn't like the Houndeye sounds in BM).
The real debate is Animux or ParryGod - runtime or visual quality:
I like to break it down by chapter. Here's my opinion of which game does which chapter better.
Chapter 1: Black Mesa Inbound
Black Mesa
Chapter 2: Anomalous Materials
Half-Life
Chapter 3: Unforeseen Consequences
Half-Life
Chapter 4: Office Complex
Black-Mesa
Chapter 5: "We've Got Hostiles"
Half-Life
Chapter 6: Blast Pit
Black Mesa
Chapter 7: Power Up
Half-Life
Chapter 8: On A Rail
Black Mesa
Chapter 9: Apprehension
Black Mesa
Chapter 10: Residue Processing
Blackl Mesa
Chapter 11: Questionable Ethics
Half-Life
Chapter 12: Surface Tension
Black Mesa
Chapter 13: "Forget About Freeman!"
Half-Life
Chapter 14: Lambda Core
Half-Life
Chapter 15: Xen
Black Mesa
Chapter 16: Gonarch's Lair
Black Mesa
Chapter 17: Interloper
Black Mesa
Chapter 18: Nihilanth
Black Mesa
Some of these might be arbitrary since I haven't played Half-Life/Black Mesa in a year or two. I've beaten both several times, though. This is my gut feeling.
Black Mesa is almost a definitive improvement
No its not. The gameplay and level design are bad, it completely abandons the style of the original game, and retcons a million things to make it consistent with HL2. I'm not gonna say its a bad game, but it is by no means an improvement.
I can't think of a single remaster with soul.
It's all artificial, simple brand milking.
The gameplay and level design are bad
You can play it
Retcons a million things
For a non-existant story
I'm not gonna say its a bad game
you did
it is by no means an improvement.
It is
Congratulations, you just won the autism award!
oh those ones, last i checked they still bugged out but that was last year, idk bout now.
black mesa 11
half-life 7
would it be fair to say you prefer bm
Based autist anon.
Does anyone work on a BS/OF remakes?
whataboutism
Got I want to bash your face in. Not only are you stupid, but you have shit taste. You couldn’t even argue the positive parts of black mesa that flesh out the game over the original. It’s sure as fuck not xen.
You can play it
I have played it, its bad. Too many bright red valves, flashing lights, and useless buttons. And not to mention all the random trash, overly detailed fake doors, and dead ends that don't look like dead ends. Hl1 has good level design, it tells where the player where to go, makes sure he never gets lost, insures a good and constant sense of progression. Then there's the gameplay. The enemy AI is a modified version of the Hl2 AI, which only knows how to do one thing, run at you in a straight line and shoot. The Hl1 enemies give you varied combat encounters and require you to actually think while fighting rather than just run around and shoot. The weapons all feel weaker and have been nerfed substantially compared to their Hl1 counterparts. Look at how the magnum only holds 18 rounds when previously it held 42. You can't carry nearly as many explosives either, which were half the combat. Then there's the movement, which is too slow unless you want to use that awful sprint mechanic. There's that shoehorned in section where you have to kill zombies with flares, or the parts where it forces you to babysit NPCs for half a chapter.
For a non-existant story
Half-Life has one of the best told stories in a shooter game because its all done through environmental story telling. Black Mesa just beats you over the head with the plot because it has no subtlety or nuance.
It's a fun HL2 mod, but its not a replacement for HL1.
OG. Black Mesa is good and all but it just isn't the same. battles against soldiers are especially bad in Black Mesa.
The vr mod for half life if shit. The games too old. It’s frustratingly difficult to play, and this is from someone who’s played half-life for like 20 years. Save VR for the 2nd game. If you’ve played hl2 already, the vr mod is mind blowingly fun and turns it into an entirely different feeling game imo. It’s really difficult but in a fun way, also assuming you’ve played hl2 before.
Honestly, yes. The main issue that holds Black Mesa back is the marine AI. It's too aggressive, too accurate, and not as fun to fight as they are in OG Half-Life. But overall, I think Black Mesa does a lot right. OG Half-Life is kind of a slog in some spots as I recall.
The great debate
can always trust an autist to be completely right
i'd give hl questionable ethics only because nuclear mission jam's replacement is trash ambience
Fixes
Nothing was broken
I agree with everything except xen gonarchs lair and interloper. The ride up to nihalanth is too video gamey but it’s kino as fuck as far as hyping Gordon up to basically be the closest thing to an unstoppable force humanity has and that elevator ride proves it.
raw
medium-rare
overcooked
One thing I like with the human AI is that they get some more varied weapons. I'm pretty sure they use a rocket launcher once or twice in the campaign and it fucked me up the first time I saw it.
I have played it, its bad
No it's not
one of the best told stories in a shooter game
No it's not
You need to get your head together
So 10:8.
I really really enjoyed the Gonarch fight in Black Mesa. Mainly because dodging her attacks is fun. It made the fight feel a lot more frantic and adrenaline pumping.
Not really a debate
Most people agree that HL1 was amazing but drags a little bit and xen was shit
Black mesa improves some areas, but creates pointless side rooms and dead ends for no reason other than muh immersion.
Plus for some retarded reason BM decided to extend xen and make it 3 times longer.
Black Mesa is great, and it even did a pretty impressive job with Xen, but I still think HL1 is playable and recommendable: It's longer (you could even say "more complete") and has a lot of stuff BM wasn't able to replicate.
Basically .
battles against soldiers are especially bad in Black Mesa.
This, HL1 on hard requires planning and careful movement/enemy herding to make it through. BM looks nice, but it plays like HL2 where you can just run around like a retard and somehow not die. If 2 soldiers get an aim on you in HL1 you're 99% gonna die.
Also BM always telling you where to go is lame, figuring out your environment was part of the gameplay in HL.
As is illustrated by the only people who claim to like Black Mesa better than HL1 are trolling. No one actually prefers Black Mesa.
I dunno why people shit on Black Mesa Xen so much. Other than all the power cable puzzles, I thought it was fun as fuck. That moment in the vortigaunt village where the controllers take over is kino as fuck. I guess the elevator drags on a bit too long too.
Also also, for anyone that likes HL1 on hard because of the tough encounters, then try out Delta Particles, its a HL1 mod that is about 5 or 6 hours long and is basically more HL made by people who understand why it was fun.
trolling
not really. I'm arguing in favor of HL1
...did you play on easy? It was a couple of years ago I played Black Mesa but HEC units were absolute monsters, from what I recall: It felt like being back in the original Blood where you had to throw explosives around corners all the time, because showing up in their line of sight was a death sentence.
The invisible ninjas? well yeah, they are the hardest things in all the games, but only in like 2 parts. They are also the only parts where I'm regretting playing through again.
What exactly makes the vr mod for HF1 so bad?
HEC are the regular soldiers...
I dont like how Valve changed the tone in its storytelling from fairly raw and restrained to sappy and melodramatic between HL1 and 2. I wish someone made HL2 more like 1, not the other way around.
Unfortunately HL2 beta mods are cursed to never reach a completed state.
Hgrunts are not as good in Black Mesa as they were in HL1, they use the shitty HL2 AI. Unironically the problem is the ability to move and shoot at the same time, it turns them from interesting enemies to just point and click at each other until one of you is dead.
I have insider info that gaben bathroom will release missing info 1.7 in 2026
So what I'm getting here is
HL1
Shoot them while they move
Black Mesa
Find creative ways to kill them becuase you can't blindly fire at them
I liked the Black Mesa soundtrack.
It was pretty good, but it can't top the Kelly Bailey original.
Not really a problem: That's Anon Babble and Anon Babble autism that you can't enjoy multiple things or have to "choose" between them. The BM soundtrack is great for accompanying the gameplay and if you're just sitting in front of your monitor and want something to listen to you generally put on the ol' original HL1 OST.
The rule of 3 puzzles get exhausting when you get to interoper
It's kind of like RE4 remake. The original is a top 10 masterpiece so any remake is going to fall short. Still, BM and RE4R are amazing games in their own right. All 4 are truly wonderful to play and a ton of fun.
BM got rid of fucking surface tension? Jesus maybe I just won't ever get around to playing it.
Ukraine lost 3 years ago.
Shortened maybe, never got rid of.
Oh, alright back on the backlog it goes.
The only remake/remaster i respect and belive to be truly superior
I think new xen was great and had "sovl". Really great atmosphere
orcnigger out of left field
This board is the most astroturfed place on the internet: These no-game animals really can't leave anything alone, especially the rare and elusive actual gaming-thread.
Questionable Ethics ambush in black mesa puts it miles above original otherwise i agree
Not with that marine AI it doesn't
some retarded marine looked through all the VOX settings to find the most evil badass villain voice and thats hilarious
Pardon me for not showcasing some examples:
HL1
youtu.be
youtu.be
youtu.be
BM
youtube.com
youtu.be
youtu.be
bros, why dont combine soldiers work no matter what you do to them? faster movement, better aim, slight tweaks and the hecu are still not that fun to fight
Nope. American. Ukraine is losing tho. Seethe troon
God I want to bash your face in. Not only are you stupid, but you have shit taste.
Why yes anon that does sum up the idiots who use the term "whataboutism".
false equivelance
"that's bad as well"
Pick one and go with that.
This. I really wanted to like nuXen because they clearly put a lot of work into it and it's visually impressive, but man it felt like it just wouldn't fucking end. It's detrimental to the story too because eventually you forget why you're even there and lose any sense of urgency.
buzzwords galore
very Amerika
Just take the L, Ivan. Your uncle Vova already did.
AbF
black mesa was a piece of shit that altered and cut out entire levels and had terrible artistic choices that changed how things felt
zen was an unending boring slog also i didn't even finish
Finally someone mentions it. None of my friends wanted to play it because it looks like openworldsurvivalcraft#2165474 so I played it solo and it's really the Half-Life scientist simulator. Waiting for 1.0 now.
Black Mesa, but drop it once you get to Xen
its fun
It's no Resident Evil Remake
Any good solo?
Hate that they removed the cute little fangs sticking out from their lip in HLA. Otherwise very fuckable
Wow what an organic thread with all these people shilling something that is on sale
SOVL/soulless
I love i but i wish it was more like halflife and less like scp trash
I can enjoy both. Fuck your forced rivalry faggot.
I don't like the original Half Life's gameplay despite being a fan of 90s Doom.
Nothing feels like it has impact, everything feels too spongey, and some of the levels drag for way too long.
Half Life 2 was better in pretty much every way.
half-gay
sellout mesa
neither, true 3D FPS was a mistake
Black Mesa was/is 2 dollars so I bought that. I played like half of HL1 in VR awhile back but man that game and RTCW gave me insane motion sickness which never happens. Doom 3 was perfect, plenty of VR-only games were perfect but those two specific games just messed me up.
Valve endorses Black Mesa as the definitive experience.
It ruins xen
Any alternative device to the PC for me who hates PC gaming, hates steam, hates valve, hates half life, hates steam deck, hates Gabe Newell and wants a device that gives me the image of a person who hates and rejects playing on PC?
kys fence sitter
I hate the feel of the weapons and the movement in Black Mesa. Gunshots sound weak, animations are stuff, and the walking and running just feels like sliding around. Half-Life isn't without it's issues in these departments, but it just feels right and I'm willing to look over certain things in an ancient game.
the singleplayer mode that came free with counterstrike stands fine without some weird fan remake
Gameplay wise it was better. I didn't like the tonal changes though. Everything was much less sinister and mysterious.
Even in your image there's an example with the faggoted HL2 vortigaunts chosen over the insecty ones of the first. Then you had Xen which went from malevolent alien dimension to Peruvian jungle.
You're telling me there are people paid to shill a five year old game on Anon Babble that's on sale for $2
I prefer Black Mesa overall, feels like a massive improvement over the original game in every way
I played HL1 first though so I'd recommend doing that before playing BM so you can appreciate the changes more
Sorry, apparently 10-year-old game*
It's got friendfarming written all over it, but the game allows you to comfortably turn into an everyman, and the only thing you're really gimped on is everyone's extra pockets.
Its coming to gamepass which is what I am waiting for
This is a purely Anon Babble-brained post.
fpbp
Black mesa remake on source 2 when
I prefer HL in almost every regard, but the one thing I really liked with BM though was the atmosphere following the resonance cascade, really felt like you were in the middle of a huge disaster and had to get the fuck out ASAP. that and Xen being a bit less unbearable (though still not great)
play a bit of a demo way back
in combat with marines
step out of cover and get instantly shot with no reaction time whatsoever
inexcusably terrible
feel like BM should've gotten the VR mod instead, old graphics aside HL is more fast and precise and combat heavy sections are bit overwhelming in VR meanwhile BM has a bit more leniency for fumbling and ofc has the improved graphics
be grunt
enemy hides behind cover
he doesn't try to throw a grenade or flank or anything
i just watch his cover
he just pokes his head out
i shoot him
with no reaction time whatsoever
I know being illiterate must be a struggle for you but do try harder, Anon.
You know how in the soldier flicks a guy will approach a corner and poke his head out for like a tenth of a second to get just a glimpse of what he's up against? You understand that this is safe to do because humans have a reaction time more like a third of a second? Imagine if you were watching a film and guy did that quick flick of the head to peek and just had it instantly blown off. Then go out yourself and make it a reality with your own head, you enormous fucking faggot.
Black Mesa is on sale rn, is it worth getting for 1 buck?