Creator of Space Invaders thinks bullet hells suck

As for more modern danmaku-type games, I don't really like these. However, they are probably an inevitable result of players becoming more skilled with these types of shooting games, and developers are forced to outdo them in some way. This is some kind of never-ending battle.

This is because it gets to a point where newer players cannot enter, and I think this is why modern shooting games have disappeared, as they got too difficult.

Is he right?

Yes, elitism killed the genre.

uh, no? can you name any mainstream bullet hells (as mainstream as a bullet hell can be, I mean, like touhou or whatever) that doesn't have easy modes out the ass? or the ability to infinitely continue? how are they 'too difficult'?

Space Invaders was irrelevant the second Galaga came out. Who cares?
This is like a Caveman showing up, and expressing dismay at the height of the Roman Empire.

Nonsensical. Bullet hells are typically easier than other types of shmups until you go for very high end difficulty, and even bullet hell enjoyers play easier non-danmaku shmups all the time. The reality is that it has always been a niche genre that only had any sort of wide appeal in arcades, and you can't sell a 20 minute game for $40 to anyone other than enthusiasts.

Problem with these games for me is that they all constant action, action, action... Good games give you time to collect your thoughts, explore something in peace, and when you are starting to get bored you fight some stuff. Any popular game is like this. No one plays games to be constantly stressed, like on Extreme difficulty guitar hero or something. Games need to be chill even if they are hard.

Plus, not every modern shmup is a bullet hell, which you know if you actually make an effort to keep up with the genre.
Zero Ranger isn't a bullet hell. Drainius isn't a bullet hell. Sol Cresta isn't a bullet hell. The new Gradius game wont be a bullet hell.

I like how what he said didn't match your summary at all. You've absorbed so much clickbait even your Anon Babble posts are basically a buzz feed article.

bullet hell is the only games people still play in that genre.

Good games give you time to collect your thoughts, explore something in peace, and when you are starting to get bored you fight some stuff. Any popular game is like this. No one plays games to be constantly stressed, like on Extreme difficulty guitar hero or something. Games need to be chill even if they are hard

gtfo tranny

but he's a fan of Radiant Silvergun

Based. It's worth it for the soundtrack.

How come noobs never open even one tutorial about anything ever?

Tech noob = reads nothing

Game noob = doesn't even open the manual, skips the tutorial

Book noob = audio, chatgpt summary

Anime noob = youtuber summary "y'all it broke me"

They are allergic to life improvement and blame rich men?

The creator of a game genre showing up at a later point, within his own lifetime, and commenting on the state of that genre is the same as a caveman showing up and commenting on the Roman empire.

Ok, guy.

This is like a Caveman showing up, and expressing dismay at the height of the Roman Empire.

He's right, you know.

Last week, Taito's own Tomohiro Nishikado came out with a statement saying that Bullet Hell is a so-called "dead-end genre".

But anyone who has actually played shmups and indeed bullet hells knows that this is simply not the case.

So to clear up the sludge brought on by these jealous, coping developers who simply fail to understand what modern-day shmups have evolved into out of necessity, here are 5 reasons why Bullet Hell is NOT a dead-end genre.

And then, here's where it gets absolutely ridiculous. I could not believe this -shit- (voice clip tuned down 1000% for impact) when I saw it.

He flat out admits that he has never played Radiant Silvergun, never played Ikaruga, yet somehow he still thinks that both of these games represent the next great evolutionary leap for shmups.

Now tell me, how do you suppose someone who has never played either of those games can possibly have an opinion and expect to be taken seriously regarding the future, the next 10, 20, 50 years, of an entire genre?

nobody is "blaming rich men" anon wtf are you smoking? what is this nonsensical imagined argument and why do you feel the need to whiteknight for porky?

It is truly a terrible genre. Controlling a jpeg with no physics while you dodge thousands of static jpeg balls is like turning a racing game into hyper speed temple run. They learnt all the wrong game design lessons

Yeah but there wasn't some transitional state where bullet hells were dominant. BHs were always indie stuff.

Good games give you time to collect your thoughts

Anon, your pause button?

Space Invaders is so archaic, it can just barely be called the start of the genre.
At the very least, a true shmup should have scrolling, powering up, and enemy patterns.

every retard on earth is blaming rich people for 100% of their problems

IT'S SATURDAY NIGHT

I HAVE NO DATE

A TWO LITER BOTTLE OF SHASTA

AND MY ALL RUSH MIXTAPE

LET'S ROCK

This is because it gets to a point where newer players cannot enter, and I think this is why modern shooting games have disappeared, as they got too difficult

Pretty much. I have no interest in memorizing the paths of a billion fucking dots. That being said, I do want to play at least one. So tell me Shump Kings, what is single best Shoot em' Up I can play right now. The one that trumps all others in every category.

t.

DoDonPachi DaiOuJou

You don't have to memorise everything, You can just play the game. Don't get hit by the bullets, bro. It's pretty simple.

Why does he care about a completely different genre?

ESP Ra De is the perfect shmup for scrubs like you.

vg was right

what does that have to do with reading tutorials or playing bullet hells?

CAVE-men are based though.

Many problems of the world can be solved by learning, which no one wants to do.

touhou is the most popular indie game of all time essentially
80 billion fangames, a series that's like 20 -main- games long
i think this guy is demonstrably incorrect

They aren't my type of game but I also agree. Is it really fun to move your character an inch, a millimeter, a micron, this way or that way to avoid the 9000000000000000000000000000000000000 bullets on screen? Most of the time your sprite isn't even a full hitbox and you can get "hit" but not die. What's the point? It just makes no sense to me. I do believe it takes skill to do and is fun for those that enjoy it but for me it makes no sense at all and I'd rather play literally any other game possible.

you're already wrong in your approach, you don't "memorize" any paths or anything else in shmups, the only thing you learn is how to dodge patterns and it's not by memorizing the pattern at all, you actually don't even look at most of it, once it clicks in your head for a particular pattern you go from getting cunt smashed by it to understanding "oh i see how to comfortably dodge this one now it's easy i just didn't see it before"
the hard part is never dodging any pattern, it's dodging 3 or 4 patterns at once because then you again go back to not being able to see a solution and have to start the process over until your brain unlocks an answer

Was there ever some iteration on Warning Forever? That's the only shmup I ever got really entranced with.

A dead end? It's not exactly a lucrative genre in the first place and the devs understand that. They just want to make fun rewarding games for the autists that play them, what's wrong with that?

That's retarded. This is what difficulty modes are for. No one forces new players to start on lunatic.

Why aren't there any Bullet Heaven games

80 billion fangames

all of them created by people who never played a touhou game and just want to fuck the little girls

It's easy to dodge bullets in R-Type :)

So what's your thoughts on AI replacing programmers, artists and voice actors?

fpbp

I refuse to believe this isn't actually Mark posting an early draft for his upcoming video. It's too perfect.

i would dare say that the characters are what made touhou popular, not the genre itself. those fangames just use the same characters but in genres besides shmups. zun is also an excellent composer

What I don't understand about the appeal of bullet hell is that it's, by design, a genre about memorization, right? Like it's part of the buy-in that you understand that even if you possess the peak of human reaction time and have extensive experience with the genre you're probably going to have to just go through certain patterns a couple of times to create a line for yourself that will be safe. To me that seems to go inherently what would have attracted a person to shmups in the first place. It's a fast paced genre, that in its original conception, was always at its best when you could get into the flow of the game immediately. Practicing the same section again and again with save states until you can do it in your sleep might be interesting to a speedrunner but there are plenty of people out there that play insane bullet hell games that don't really do it for the leaderboards. So in a sense the most extreme version of the genre doesn't seems to be a genre of its own that would appeal to a completely different audience. Rote memorization is generally something that's more a rhythm game thing.

That's literally the name for vampire survivor clones

conflating "old man has been absent from the genre for near 50 years, and probably doesn't know what he's talking about" with "fuck artists"

okay, man. You beat your drum.

Why do retards like you keep using the word "memorization" to get around admitting that you're just bad at games and unwilling to practice something to gain skill?
It's not rote memorization, it's muscle memory if anything. Which is literally the same thing as skill.

Imagine being such a bootlicker that you have to bring it up in a conversation that has nothing to do with the robber barons...

The only shmup i like is Go Beryllium

the guy who made space invaders is still alive

i had to look this up, kind of shocking.

yeah let me just memorize this RNG

Anon Babble nonplyers has never played a shmup. this shit only applies to dadshit and even that has a fuck ton of RNG
fucking nonplayer retards.

Yeah I think so. Some shmups have odd mechanics or obtuse scoring methods like level-long (or game long) chaining and many other things emphasizing the hardcore crowd. Even decades ago some schmups started depended too much on secrets and memorization to do good. To me they feel like things that feel like they stand in the way of the sensation that you're intuitively improving just by the act of playing.

However when I think about what I actually like about shmups, its just good music, smooth gameplay amd fair difficulty. I don't want to memorize and spend a few dozen hours optimizing a perfect route like I'm studying for an exam, right?

"memorise" is code for "you have to play more than once, before the game lets you win".
This is why people get up Dark Souls' ass for being "all about memorisation". They don't like that they died on a boss, and it made them feel stupid.

What makes you good at a shmup is spacial awareness and reflexes. You *can* memorise the location of every enemy on screen if you like, and it'll give you an edge, but that in itself isn't a requirement for being good.
What makes you good is when you see the bullet, you get out of the way.

he likes Trashure slop

lol

lmao

Buttmad because he's not the one who perfected the genre.

This shit is straight up the same kind of energy I get from all the Clair Obscur reviews where people who have literally never played a JRPG in their lives go "HOLY FUCK TIMED HITS!? REVOLUTIONARY! THIS SHIT SHOULD BE MANDATORY IN ALL JRPGS NOW!!! IT'S SUCH A GAME CHANGER! REDEFINED THE GENRE!!!"

Great bait.

This.

What makes you good at a shmup is spacial awareness and reflexes.

Yes but also a core understanding of how most bullet pattern works and the best way to dodge them for each type, there's a lot of techs to know just for this alone, understanding the enemy design so upi know who to prioritize to shoot down, positioning also always relate to your firepower directly (your shot power is always better if you're at the top/right of the screen), and at a higher level you need to know how to control the whole screen so you don't get stuck on one corner with no way to dodge and you cannot just memorize this, you learn all of this from experience.

Lol, shameless. It's especially funny because Radiant is actually among the most fucking difficult in the genre, not only just staying alive on the later stages already harder than normal but the game is fucking long and you gotta master the scoring on top of that to power up your weapon if you even want A CHANCE of clearing this game at all. It's the most demanding in the genre for sure.

can you name any mainstream bullet hells

I cannot, and that's really exacerbating this topic.

What, like with RTS and Fighting Games somewhat?

I'm not a big fan of bullet hells when you get to that point where you're navigating a pixel inside a maze of things that are going to kill you. But as the dev said, there's only so far the genre can evolve in terms of difficulty. I love Psikyo games but I think everyone agrees by now that the way they add difficulty isn't necessarily better than just making a bullet hell and having the player maneuver/manipulate a trillion slow-moving projectiles while holding down the fire button.

Angel of Dusk. It has many mechanics built in so you can do a lot while not having 20/20 vision and the precision of a China man.

huge ikaruga fan excited to play it for the first time

I don't like DOJ
MushiFutari is the best CAVE game

There will be a new gradius game?

The reason bullet hells have a difficulty getting a wider audience is the implicit over-reliance on pixel-perfect precision required to dodge projectiles in later portions of the game assuming you're playing on the average or easy difficulty setting. Harder difficulties ramp this up because that's the entire point of skill and satisfaction of playing that will make watchers "pog out". The issue is that there are an increasing number of bullet hells that think it's perfectly fine to gradually tune up the difficulty on ALL DIFFICULTY LEVELS, and then you get people who are new to it being constantly frustrated after investing as much time as they have prior.

But this is a mountain out of a literal fucking molehill, god damned Undertale is the key example that most people are totally fine with bullet hells as long as they're accessible and still have their quirky difficulty spikes you gotta access yourself directly instead of slapping you across the face with the game's dick. Which most bullet hells don't even fucking do, only specific ones that are majorly popular in bullet hell spaces because... Shock and awe, it turns out enthusiasts of a game type will often enjoy higher and higher difficulties.

This is discovering a niche and yelling at a cloud because the niche fucking exists. Bullet hells are constantly innovating and finding new ways to be entertaining and fun without just spamming the screen in projectiles and calling it a day.

here's my hot take of this entire genre

I'm a big fan of these games

playing them? no, of course I don't do that

Ok then.
Bomb

So what's your thoughts on AI replacing *mediocre programmers, artists and voice actors?

I couldn't care less. But on that note, an actual good artist who isn't retarded will realize he can use AI to train his own model.

Not quite, but a new Salamander sequel is coming bundled with a gradius 1-3+Salamander collection.

What I don't understand about the appeal of bullet hell is that it's, by design, a genre about memorization, right?

I think bullet hells is more about you having precise control of your ship while knowing how to position yourself correctly (including using various techniques) to manipulate the enemies' projectiles and thus generate openings for you to navigate inside. I think it's less memorization-based than shmups that aren't bullet hells.
But after a level all shmups become memorization, in fact practically all single player games, when played at an extreme level, become memorization-based, hence speedrunners memorizing entire games... The difference with other genres is that shmups are so unreasonably difficult by default that you basically have to have the dedication of a speedrunner, but to finish the game normally.

The average shmup is barely a game, the field of play is too narrow, and the interactions and outcomes within the given systems are too limited.

This list might help you.
And also the game this anon said, it has the best and most complete shmup tutorial I've ever seen

Make games for 1% of the player, get 1% of the playerbase.

Sky Force

Man, I bought that piece of shit because it had 2000+ reviews on Steam and a 93% approval rating. After an hour and a half playing that piece of shit I posted a review saying that Steam users have no brains. Tired of seeing decent shmups with 50-100 reviews while that piece of shit mobile game with that gameplay that looks like it was made by someone who has never played a video game in their life, with 2000+.

The average, yep.
The industry stagnated, it is what it is. Just look at expedition 33. The devs had a simmilar sentiment about turn based jrpgs, untill expedition 33 proved them wrong.
Even in shmups there is place to innovate, all you need it some creative enough.

Speaking of shmup tutorials and specifically the bullet hell variety, honorable mention to
youtube.com/watch?v=kX-IIV80b7c

Calling Space Invaders the first shmup is like calling Pitfall the first platformer. Even if it's true, the game is so far divorced from what the genre would become that comparisons become pointless.

Indiefags have already tried to "reinvent" shmups, it doesn't work since shmups are already perfect as they are, roguelite or other dogshit mechanics add nothing positive, if anything they devalue the experiences. The opinions of the people that never played the games doesn't matter too, Space Invaders got improved by every sequel even if some were harder than the original, even though they were better titles they made way less money than the original because modern gaymers don't want to play videogames, they want to watch movies and that's why they also praise bland dogshit like Ikaruga that they of course never played, what is important is that the journalists praised it.

I guess the creator of space invaders is an idiot then
He is not even making any real points

oh no people got gud so people that dont gitgud cant participate

So......where is the issue? And who is stopping you from making a casual shooter for those casuals that totally exist that you talk about?
He is full of shit because I got into shmups with cave games with no warming up just straight into hell, and that was the fucking appeal to me a complete casual in the genre a year ago

No it hasnt stagnate it has been perfected, now all you get are variations of stablished things and that is not a bad thing
The west is fucking obsessed with novelty for some reason

has this nigger never heard of difficulty settings?

He is full of shit because I got into shmups with cave games with no warming up just straight into hell, and that was the fucking appeal to me a complete casual in the genre a year ago

Actually good point.
What many people seem to misunderstand is that no genre actually needs easier games or games with easier modes to get beginners used to it before they step up to harder ones. Players who seek difficulty will just start with a difficult game, hit their heads against the wall over and over again and eventually get gud - while players who are happy with picking an easy game or select easy modes were never going to bother.

I don't think shmups need to evolve, in fact, we just need more of them periodically. It's like Doom 2 which has survived for 30 years because of customized maps, people never get bored as long as there are new things to try out periodically.
One thing I don't like about shmups, however, is when them use psychological tricks to make more money. Psikyo's games do this a lot. The difficulty spike that the last levels have is quite frustrating because you end up falling into a loop where you have to play the whole ("easy") game to finally get the chance to try and improve on the last level, but there's no guarantee because you can be destroyed before you have even a chance to learn new things, and that's just to make players spend more coins.
I think modern games made with consoles and PCs in mind will drop this kind of crap, though, and you'll see less frustrating difficulty curves.

exactly, getting stomped and learning and seeing yourself improve is the appeal
easy games are for low IQ retards in my opinion, if you want a story go literally to any other medium, its way better there, games are fun because they are challenging, if I can beat a game without trying I get bored and will never play it again

Also his points about accessibility fall apart because there are plenty of bullet hells with easy difficulties to ease (heh) into the genre.
Also, let's not forget about continues/credit feeding.
You very much don't have to be good at games to enjoy bullet hells.

A lot of shmups are about rote memorization. Which makes them palatable to retards but boring to anyone that plays them repeatedly.

Im not a fan of your shot getting weaker, otherwise gunbird is perfect

Oh its this guy again, took you long enough
What matters is that the execution is fun, you memorize automatically as you play you are not sitting down memorizing things you are playing a game that is fun to play
Retard

webm

There is a cool strategy for those pillars, works especially well with Marion.
streamable.com/g4p7gl

If a videogame has no memorization required then its probably a very bad game or not a game at all.

What a retarded post. You have to really cripple your player to make execution not fun.

idk, I'm having fun with this.

pffft bet he can't even 1cc Mushihimesama Futari on Maniac difficulty

Very clean, based Psikyofag

He's right.
fpbp
Enjoy your drought of games, faggots.
Play Touhou.
Yes, PLAY the games, not gawk at the secondary shit like what the fandom does.
You can start from Touhou 6 aka EoSD (usual starting point), 7 aka PCB, or 8 aka IN as points out. Otherwise pick any full-numbered game that isn't 9 PoFV, 11 SA, and 15 LoLK. Play on easy modo since you're new, or Normal if you want to commit from the start. Use continues if you'd like, but the real measure of any shmup player is clearing a game without using any continues. You'll reach this stage if you're committed.
There's a gameplay thread on Anon Babble instead of the circlejerk ones here on Anon Babble.
In general you don't dodge all the bullets in shmup games, only those aimed at you. The more you play, the more you understand how bullet patterns work and you'll realize that 90% of bullets on screen are just beautiful fluff and don't matter.
2hu playerbase is miserably small compared to the secondary nonplayer majority.
That being said, shmupfaggots foam at the mouth when Touhou gets mentioned anytime, either due to envy of popularity (and objective superiority), or having the nonplayer fandom's existence live rent-free in their heads.

creator of space invader

just grill the dogs unc

thats like saying you dont play mario because you dont want to memorize the paths of the goombas

Think you're thinking in the extremes. Maybe you're zoomers, maybe not, but there was games of various difficulties in the 80s, 90s, and even 2000s for various genres and people could love and enjoy them accordingly. Afterwards is when many game just became harder, and certain genres were much more unforgiving then others.

That being said, games made later on were figuring out better what to aim for. Some games just became more about the technicality, or skill and difficulty, and didn't really change in any other way. This is was fighting games especially are brought up because most of it is hard as hell for any given person to get into. For Schmups, most outsiders just see massive bullets sprays on screens and extreme precision control to not get blown up, so they don't bother. I know better because I remember games like Raiden and R-type where there were bullets but not as many of them, and many schmups that might have various levels of difficulty don't really market itself as such.

That's why I've been pushing Angel of Dusk heavily to anyone who is worried about trying schmups because it does its best to try and cater more people the genre while at the same time not going into casual journo baby mode and causing and quality drop.

drought

lol there are tons coming all the time I cant keep up

LMAO Shmupfags absolutely BTFO

R-Type is considerably harder than a lot of bullet hells. Your fear of "too many bullet" is a psychological barrier you have to get over.
Most of the bullets aren't going to hit you, because you can only be on one part of the screen at once, see?

Resident Evil 1

Some shmup difficulties pretty much require you prepare by being on certain spots on the screen before the enemies appear of you'll get jailed by enemy shots. Furthermore, many games "chaining" score mechanic dictates you prepare and prefire on certain areas if you want to keep your chain going. Many modern shmups make you memorize routes.

Good games give you time to collect your thoughts

No they don't unless its turn based, if a real time game has a lot of filler time then its probably bad.

drought of games

There's a healthy amount of new shmups that came out every year, and ports as well

Touhou gets mentioned anytime

Because 2hu players don't give a shit about other shmups, and claim that their franchise is superior just like you did. There's nothing wrong with playing 2hu, but the whole franchise is just a fraction of what the genre has to offer.
Play Ketsui

Idk why i find this post so funny

>Because 2hu players don't give a shit about other shmups

Corrrection, 2hu fans don't give a shit about shmups at all (including 2hu itself)
Also CAVE games don't have official PC releases which I think is also why less people play them

Shmuppers that hate touhou are megafags.
2hufags that hate other shmups are gigafags.

Are we back?
We are back

PACK POST!
Original(kept for legacy reasons): archive.org/details/shmupg-pack
Leinyan certified version(Enhanced, recommended): archive.org/details/mature-dot-dodging-games-gaiden-v-1.0.7z

2hu where?

nyaa.si/view/1743411
And more doujin shmups at vector.co.jp/vpack/filearea/winnt/game/shoot
freegame-mugen.jp/shooting/
freem.ne.jp/win/category/2

B-But piracy is illegal!

Faggot shmups.wiki/library/Free_to_Play

Temporarily pasted anon's suggestions from some threads ago here:
pastebin.com/ZzHxJ38H

I'm not really talking about the games themselves as much as the players mindset.
When somebody says shit like "those games aren't welcoming for beginners" and imply that those beginners would have played the harder games eventually if only you allowed them in, they are not considering this one extremely crucial point. The casual who picked up an easy game/easy mode most likely just doesn't give a shit about challenge in vidya.

Also other anons are right, danmaku-style looks scary sure, but they are not necessarily harder than many dadshmups. The skillset is just different, with the former generally putting more emphasis on micrododging due to the small hitboxes.

We never left. Shmups never stop rustling some jimmies even when the genre is only barely alive.

first shmup

Game Tengoku

current favorites

Yuri Sword Saga
Butt Knight

longtime favorite

Muchi Muchi Pork

any essential cute-em-ups i should play?

Yes, but then again bullet hells aren't shmups, they're an entirely different subgenre.

You’re in the mental prison with the rest of the shmup “fan” retards kek.

Hitogata Happa

I really have grown to dislike this guy and his extremely surface level criticism.

Mamoru Has Been Cursed

Not even slightly true.

The real problem is that nothing can surpass DOJ. That leads me to agree with him, even cave couldn't do it.

You sound like a big pussy.

People make the memorization process seem more unfair than it really is. Even Psikyo's games usually indicate things well to the player, you're going to die a lot in a game like Strikers 1945, but you're rarely going to die from something totally unpredictable and 100% unavoidable, unless it's very late in the game, I think in the case of Strikers 1945 1, only the last boss really has the potential for that, if I remember correctly.
In any case, memorization is still important, but that goes for any difficult single player game. Those impossible kaizo levels in Super Mario World are designed to make you die several times until you start to develop muscle memory for each part of the level.

Only play this if you want to end up hating shmups even more. One of the most stupid overrated piece of shit games ever made.

any essential cute-em-ups i should play?

Harmful Park(horizontal)
Parodius series(Gradius parody), it's not 100% cute but I would say the ratio is still high enough
Twinkle Star Sprites(VS splitscreen)

The game sucks dick man.

But I played that and like shmups?
The only real "issue" with DOJ is that if you care about going for high scores, then the chain system is very demanding, although it's still not the most demanding in the series believe or not.

This isn't true at all, imo. The question is whether someone is having fun when they start, and that determines if they'll keep playing as the difficulty ramps up. Some players like slamming their dick in a door, sure, but most peoples reaction to DDP is gonna be "this isn't fun right now, I'm going to do something else with my time." There being a small dedicated group of people who love shmups doesn't mean onboarding isn't important for the vast majority of potential players.

Everyone should play the tutorial, shits entertaining.

looks great, worth 7 bucks from a keysite?

looks AMAZING, looks like a remake is due out soon too store.steampowered.com/app/3273980/Mamorukun_ReCurse/

love these, harmful park especially blew me away! if you haven't tried spark and sparkle i recommend it, it reminds me a lot of twinkle star sprites

Did you clear it?

worth 7 bucks from a keysite

Fucking worth, there's a lot of variety in the routing depending which dolls you want to use, adding a lot of replayability into the table.

I only got 2 1-ALLs, one from black label and then another from the original arcade version. Have practiced second loop stages but never tried still.

He's right. The genre is just the same thing over and over

genre entirely composed of japanese masochists trying to outdo their japanese sadist overlords

homosexual genre.

I don't hate other shmups. I used to play other shmups casually until I found Touhou myself while looking for other titles. The problem is that I'm hooked on them and other games don't have anything to entice me to play them anymore, as much as I'd like to.
I do hate elitistfags who hate 2hu though. It's irrational and only increases the animosity between the two camps for no good reason.
No more brother wars.

Corrrection, 2hu fans don't give a shit about shmups at all (including 2hu itself)

Don't lump us with the trash that infests our fandom.

I guess you’re just better than me. Can’t get past stage 4 at best after many many hours of practice. It’s a cruel piece of shit game.

spark and sparkle

First time hearing about that, looks a bit gimmicky with the jigsaw part of the gameplay but maybe it will be fun.

Fine by me, 2hufag

The problem is that I'm hooked on them and other games don't have anything to entice me to play them anymore

Len'en is pretty close to Touhou if you want more of the same stuff

the fun comes from having to juggle the puzzle and the shooting at the same time

you kind of have to spend brainpower to put the puzzle together and being able to safely do both is quite difficult

the shooting/dodging is fairly basic but the challenge is multitasking

i encourage everyone here to try buttknight

its korean-developed and a bit on the easy side but it has good art and its funny

Things I like in shmups

cool (space)ship designs

cool (alien) enemy designs

colorful memorable levels

catchy atmospheric music

beeps boops

shooting at enemies

enemies dying because I shoot at them

powerful weapons

pretty explosions

Things I don't like in shmups

retarded dot representing your whole spaseship

retarded dots taking half the screen or even more

can't see shit captain

enemies dying of old age because I dodged their attacks for two hours

"shoot" button might as well not exist

This is because it gets to a point where newer players cannot enter, and I think this is why modern shooting games have disappeared, as they got too difficult.

This is true of arcade shmups but not of PC ones. Any retard can pick up a modern Touhou game and get a 1CC on Normal after only a few attempts. Getting slightly further in the game each time is really fun and addictive. But non-gamers just watch a youtube video of some giga Lunatic rape Bonus Stage and think "wow I couldn't do that, this game must be inaccessible".

You overestimate how good the average player is at games.

Because 2hu players don't give a shit about other shmups

I used to post regularly in shmup threads, but faggots constantly crying about Touhou convinced me that the shmup community here wasn't worth getting involved with.

Shmup fans are the most annoying group of any vidya players and it’s not close.

it's too difficult

play Ikaruga instead

Did this senile retard play any bullet hell games? Ikaruga is harder than most of them

Like Dreamer is unironically one of the best entry level shmups currently available.

Replace normal with easy and you're right. Otherwise

Every SHMUP game has like 40 minutes of unique content though. So even with 100 samey games you don't have enough to exhaust the genre

just get drunk and maek a game, its how ZUN do it

Yes its complete shit. I am never touching a touhou game unless its a dating sim

He didn't even play Ikaruga.

OMEGA Based. Fuck Shmuppies.

Isn't 2hu super popular despite being literally impossible to play?

There's a dating sim space shooter flash game on Newgrounds, but I can't be arsed to dig it up right now.

My problem with bullet hell is that these games are so repetitive.

I played Touhou 7, had a fucking blast. Played Touhou 8, it was significantly different from 7, still had fun.

Then I went to... Touhou 10, I think, because 9 is bugged... And it's just reused assets of the previous game. Same songs, same patterns. So repetitive.

2hu's popularity is mostly thanks to fan works, but it is genuinely one of (if not the) the most popular bullet hell series despite that.

Keep going at it, you have no idea how many times I had to replay just because of stage 5 myself. Eventually it happens.
Use Exy and Type B if you want your shot type to be good, she can recover more easily from dying compared to the other two. The lack of bombs isn't the biggest deal when you can fill hyper faster and won't be threatened as much.

He is correct and that's a net positive on the genre

Or maybe touhou just sucks

What do you recommend? I like specifically how the hitbox in touhou is just a dot and you can see it do you have anything similar? At least with the small hitbox. I hate these space invader style games where the hitbox is huge

Nothing from 10 is reused from prior games though outside of player sprites being reused from 9

Try not playing just Touhou then?
There's a massive array of styles to choose from, like Yagawa games, Psikyo games, Takumi games and a shit ton of doujins/indies. No wonder why it is repetitive for you, you're playing a single doujin franchise that reuses its assets every game

creators of good games have shit irrelevant opinions decades later

9 is actually a versus game which the only previous entry in that genre was 4 iirc
it's one of the more different ones

DoDonPachi Resurrection

I only got to stage ~4 but I am pretty sure I saw most patterns in 7/8, and the songs were the same jiggles remixed

Of course one can't expect Zun to single handedly create 20 games worth of unique art, but it was still off-putting

Like Dreamer

And making shit games. Look at what the original fallout people have been cooking as of late. blergh.

I like specifically how the hitbox in touhou is just a dot and you can see it do you have anything similar?

That's basically the entire danmaku subgenre, the closest thing is CAVE games in terms of fancy patterns, using a focused fire mode that also slows down your ship and basically what ZUN was trying to rip off.

Yeah, I dunno, it just always feels like when I look at SHMUP, it's not like

you beat the game, now here's the extra challenge runs

It's

1CC is the starter, then NMNB we can call a basic "real" clear, but it's still not worth talking about without certain combo or point thresholds etc. etc.

just doesn't seem to be worth engaging in unless you wanna make it your whole thing

Plus, it's kinda gay how many don't have any form of online multiplayer. It's a genre that feels second only to Rhythm games in how deterministic they are, so it's not like it's be particularly hard to get working.

consider devil blade

this LOOKS LIKE SHIT

Man, co-op in arcades with the shooters was great.

Even worse: look at what the original Fallout people made in 1997. Eurhgurgurgughuhrguhgh

How about you just play it however you like. I played a ton of SHMUPs and I have not 1CCed a single one. Just can't be arsed, it's more fun to jump between games than to autistically obsess over a single one

have you got ANY of these types of game that doesn't look like pixeltrash? Ruttin' Platypus from 2002 managed to look better, fuck's sake

Rude. Outside Danmaku puts a lot of DETAIL in their artstyle!

Thanks, I will.

I'm an eternal coomer and even I don't like this. There's no mastery of form in any of these. Just 2d overlapped shapes. Disappointing. Now my dick is flaccid.

Bullet Hells are easy to learn, hard to master. All you need is to add an easy difficulty mode with difficulty progression to some of them. Even old flash games had those and they were highly addicting as each stage made the game more challenging.

Don't play to impress others, play as much as you like it.
Still, since these games allow you to continue infinitely and the focus is obviously on gameplay and challenge, you will probably want to chase a goal like 1cc.

Fighting Games have never been easier to play

I don’t see how to find satisfaction in being shit at a bunch of different games when I could at least attempt to clear one game.

The stages themselves are actually pretty easy once you learn them but for the life of me the bosses fuck me up with their random bullshit. Stage 2 or 3 bosses destroy my runs every single time.

Considered it a pleb filter. If you can't handle deviant art fetish balloon tit sovl then you don't have what it takes to truly engage with this genre.

Bullet Hell

dying genre

I know that feel, DOJ made their bosses to counter players who just try to memo them by adding more variants of the same patterns or RNG.

DISLIKED

Hello, AI kusoge
Oh wait, sorry, my bad. Touhou has always been kuso.

I just can't take them seriously because of the maximum moeblob artstyle.

art is strange but the games are stupidly fun, recommended

Now what would you call a game like Picayune Dreams?

vampire survivors style gameplay

actual bullet hell boss fights

it's kinda gay how many don't have any form of online multiplayer

Retroarch exists for games you can emulate(which is basically 90% of the genre), it's not perfect but acceptable imo.

Can people really appreciate Daifukkatsu without having played at least DDP and DOJ first? Half of the game is references to these, down to the gameplay and ship types.

then NMNB we can call a basic "real" clear

Don't listen to challenge retards or score retards, they're up their own assessment and just 1cc'ing is enough of an accomplishment.
If bombing was cheating the game wo7ld let you disable them.

This genre isn't for you.

Well part of it is just what the OP article is talking about: it's not that the community is like that, it's that the developers implement such things in their games, and results in stuff like the ending or final bosses being gated behind such runs. I can't be assed to actually look into which games have that and which don't while also potentially ruining surprises. Maybe that sounds neurotic, but that's just how it is for me
Indeed. I've enjoyed playing a bit of Strikers 1945+ and Twinkle Star Sprites because of that.

1000%
I love classic shmups, but I fucking hate "le bullet hell" autism

FP fucking BP

assessment

Asses, fucking auto complete can ruin that but doesn't even catch wo7ld. Fuck technology and ai niggers.

For you shmup heads out there, how do you rank Judgement Silversword?
It's the only one I really bothered with, but I like it a lot.

just 1cc'ing is enough of an accomplishment.

for nonplayer shitters like you, yeah.

He is gay and retarded.
If every dev stated making Gradius / R-Type likes tomorrow, normalfags still wouldn't care.

elitistfags who hate 2hu though. It's irrational

I disagree, two hoes just play like garbage, I want stages to be stages

EoSD

good taste

Have you tried Subterranean Animism? I thought that one was good too

I mean they already do

Not yet, I'm busy with Rolling Gunner atm
streamable.com/ujega9

Me only kill for cave to sleep in but men in dresses kill for want

Me think one way only this ends and it is hubris

I find it funny how my skills don't seem to match up with other players. I see people saying that Caladrius Blaze is an easy game, but I'm completely destroyed in that game, I can't survive more than 3 levels, even though I can play games that are apparently more difficult with some competence.

fighting, racing, rhythm games...

literally playing and beating the game

nonplayer

nonthinker

Shmup players aren't very good at judging difficulty for people who aren't into shmups as much as them.

Literally any of them
Gunbird was my first one, pretty fun with a cute protag

these games are banned in my country. any sites to get them?

f95

I never visit Anon Babble. So this is is how much toxic cancer the toehoe generals are?

They don't have anything to do with the games if that's what you are looking for.

niche genre is niche, nothing wrong with that

no

Anon Babble is 90 percent picture of girls

The Anon Babble touhou generals are genuinely some of the worst threads on the site, Anon Babble is far better in comparison.

Back then they weren't niche, one of the most popular arcade genres right behind fightans in japan.

Muh broader audience

on a singleplayer game? Who gives a hit, nigga. It's about the game being playable for (you)
who cares if the difficulty filters the majority, It's playable, It's fun, why do I care if jimmy the redditor with a zelda triforce tattoo can play this game?

and now they are niche

Surface level? He's one of 3 people in total who critique the actual game

likes radiant silvergun and ikaruga

so he's reddit as fuck

Yeah, but I can see where he's coming from

yes me too

rRootage is somewhat similar in that every level is a boss fight. However you do not destroy individual parts. Same guy also has a bunch of other good games.

They don't talk about the games.

What I despise about "Bullet Hell" is that nowadays any Survivors clone is one, if I like shmups then I can't filter that tag reeeeeeeeee

Shmups are a more primitive genre that were specifically well suited for arcades thanks to their content dense design but poor for physical console release thanks to their relatively poor length to cost ratio.

Wow...

Who are you quoting

Nier Automata, Undertale, and Sonic Frontiers are all bullet hells.

you mean actually good ones
+ kingdom hearts 3 mini-game

I like starfox 64

Name some Please

Getting into shmups was easy as fuck for me as a new player.

Play Touhou 6

It's the coolest shit ever made

Later learn that you can press shift for focused movement and actually beat the game.

Every arcade shmup gives gives you a short break between levels. If you want more, Touhou games give you a short break before every major attack pattern, and a long break before each boss.
Should not exist in shmups.

Platformer games are so repetitive

First I played New Super Mario Bros, then I played New Super Mario Bros 2, then I played New Super Mario Bros U and........................................................it was all the same??? How could this happen to me??? Why is the genre like this??? Nobody has ever come up with a platformer that isn't exactly like New Super Mario Bros???

I wouldn't mind if shmups had a "press A to progress to stage 2" prompt so you can take your time without breaks during the actual action, but I can see why they didn't do that due to their arcade origins.

Anon is retarded but I'm tired of pretending touhou didn't ruin the genre permanently by giving everyone the wrong impression. You can tell the vast majority of the complaints people have about the bullet hell variant especially come from only playing or watching touhou.

I just want to say as a non-shmup fan I 1cc'd zeroranger and loved it

I have no idea how touhou got popular when its presentation is so garbage

Espgaluda is better for noobs. Single loop, easy 1CC (final boss is hard but hoard lives until then and you'll be fine).

It IS rote memorization. A lot of patterns require you to be in the right place in advance or else you get caught by layered bullet patterns that leave no room to slip out, even if your hitbox were a single pixel.

Shmups always were a more revered genre in japan, it has cute anime girls which reference japanese culture or mythology, and it's a doujin series with very lax terms about what you can do with it. Honestly it makes sense there, as for the west it was mostly through niconico I guess.

What kind of shitty bait are these to discredit 2hu?
Can't have a single shmup thread without somebody having a nuclear meltdown about Touhou for no real reason.

literally impossible to play?

What crap grifter Youtube video did you watch to get this impression?

Same songs, same patterns.

Why lie?

having a nuclear meltdown

Shitting on shit games is nuclear meltdown?

for no real reason.

lol

Touhou is to shmups what Melee is to the fgc. Take that as you will.

I don't play Melee but I'm sorry for Sakurai here. He doesn't deserve this comparison.

The spirit of /shmupg/ haunts all shmup threads. It's only so long until someone starts foaming at the mouth about jarpigs.

No, this is a regular shmup (read: seethe about toehoe) thread.

Anon Babble is mostly character-based threads which are mostly image dumping and light waifuism, rarely serious discussion of characters' merits and lore. The rest of the board are general otaku topics.

Anon Babble has an actual Touhou gameplay thread with actual discussion. Hell, even more on-topic than this thread at this point. The threads can get extra comfy when they are general shmup discussion, but they don't last as long as 2hu-only threads for some reason. This is the current iteration: The Anon Babblehu threads here are utter garbage, formed by Anon Babble refugees after the vtuber takeover of the board and stayed here even after Anon Babble was made. Avoid them like the plague, there is NO game discussion there except the very rare multiplayer session.

it's shit because I don't like it

Sorry you're autistic
That makes sense.

That's exactly how normalfags see gameplay-focused genres, though.

Normalfags are retarded and water is wet.

You think that every person is the same template formed by their experiences and teaching.
You are wrong. Some people are born broken and no amount of effort will bring them to the level of a good template that put in a minimal amount of effort. I'm of course are a super genius. Very smart. The best.

You're right. It's the same thing for RTS and fighting games where you just have to repeat stuff until you have it down as muscle memory.

same reason i wont do inferno or raids in osrs
its unfun boring tedious shit to pander to no life nerds with small dick syndrome
i hate whales lol

I miss when shmup threads were mostly posting about what people are playing or the funny kind of shitposting.

Halfway there, shmiggas

Be the shmupfag you want to see

Cotton's new game is coming out this July, anyone else excited?
x.com/BEEP_SOFT/status/1921022379976790265
Unfortunately there's no info about a PC version currently, I'm going to emulate it when it releases.

All the Anon Babblehu generals are just extensions of Anon Babble's autism, Anon Babble is an edging cave.

1994 was the best year for shmups it had Raiden DX and RayForce

but I'm tired of pretending touhou didn't ruin the genre

You and your ilk bitching about the series every thread doesn't give the impression that you ever tried.

Fast bullets are where its at, slow bullets a shit

I don't think FGC fags seethe about Melee on a daily basis. The way niggas here talk about Touhou you'd think ZUN himself raped their wives and stole their crops.

formed by Anon Babble refugees after the vtuber takeover

Anon Babblehu is a mixture of qa circlejerk faggotry and /2hug/ retards, very little Anon Babble DNA. If you want to blame anyone, blame the old Anon Babble Soku threads.

oh nice
it's that time again
files.catbox.moe/n3g7wr.webm
archive.org/details/japon-histoiredushootinggame

Looks neat, hope it runs well on Switch.

In honor of this thread I just beat Deathsmiles by spamming continues on max difficulty desu. The game made it feel like it was the mid 2000s again which is something that's worth its weight in gold.

and how did Rome work out? Should've listened to the caveman

Touhou won

We actually see some of this in action . And that's why the last steam bullet hell sale didn't have any traditional arcades shmups, and was full of the Survivor types, which require more improvisation.

Eh, sort of. There's no equivalent of the 1cc assholes who learn the game with save states and just go full apeshit on the casuals.

1cc assholes

When did Anon Babble go so wrong that people are unironically typing this shit.

credit-feeding makes me feel like it's the 2000s again

bleak shit man

Most popular franchises in their respective genres (For Melee it's just Smash as a whole)

Makes try-hard faggots piss themselves

Sounds about right, Halo during its peak could also fit into the category.

when its presentation is so garbage

What? Its presentation is a key factor to why it's so popular, if it was another dime-a-dozen aircraft/spaceship game nobody would've cared about it.

Says that I beat the game on my machine

It's the same problem with FGC

I want more people in my hobby!

But they must play exactly the way I do.

It would be no one's business if they kept to themselves and gatekept but both FGC and Schmup enthusiasts do little to encourage people to ease themselves in. This thread has been very nice because many anons have been helping heavily with suggestions.

It's true. Memorization in shooting games sucks ass. I beat Gradius and went on to play Lifeforce and that game despite being released after Gradius is so much worse than it. The first level is riddled with stupid memorization bullshit.

I'm complaining about the retard who uniroincally typed out "1cc assholes", in case it wasn't obvious enough.
Telling people to 1cc arcade games is fine, what the fuck is the point of playing with infinite lives?

Considering Reboot ran perfectly on the Switch I think this one will too, I doubt it'll require additional power.
Deathsmiles feels like a homage to Fantastic Night Dreams to me, they share a very similar dark-fantasy theme. I should go back and try to get a 1cc, personally credit feeding makes me feel lifeless.

I mean I get where you're coming from, but you have to understand that your traditional shmup is designed in a very arcady manner. They're not meant to be "oh I played the game from start to finish and that's that", they're games designed to be played multiple times to the point of mastering the systems enough to where a player can achieve a 1cc (if I had to make a modern comparison, it's like how roguelites are built around the player failing and trying over with a fesh run). 1cc is the big "I completed the game" benchmark for most of these games, and pretending otherwise is dishonest.

You don't just have to 1cc it eventually, you have to 1cc it on your first playthrough of the game.

bullet hell sucks

come in vampire survivors

made billions overnight

maybe they just have outdated views and they're mad to have become irrelevant over the years

roguelites

No. They over rely on randomness and meta progression. Not pure skill.

In honor of this thread I just beaten Mushihimesama on Ultra, but with altered Lives and score extends. I will still grind for a genuine Ultra 1cc though

The thing is, 1cc is the absolute minimum level of achievement for shmups. Like says, the ending is usually gated behind being able to clear the game with no continues, just like arcade days of old. Now although this might be disappearing, with endings being provided even with a >1 continue clear (not counting true endings or secret bosses if any), the fact is that 1ccs is still considered the bare minumum in the community at least.
Personally I have nothing against continue players as long as they promise they'll work towards a 1cc someday, because I was once like them but I've improved, and that's part of the fun of it for me.

Mushi is such a wonderful game. I hope to 1CC this and Deathsmiles eventually.

I only make the comparison to emphasize that both genres expect you to essentially play the same game multiple times, you're expected to do multiple "runs" to learn the systems and meta.

I like SA a lot but can't recommend it as a starting place because it's such a ball buster. Early Windows entries like EoSD or PCB are so much more manageable.

Consider this. You have NO fucking clue what the FUCK you're talking about.

But this is a legitimate problem with the New Super Mario Bros games. And this is why Nintendo keeps reinventing the Mario franchise.

Imagine if Nintendo went full Touhou and were still releasing New Super Mario Bros 20 which the exact same levels and soudntrack.

In fact a bunch of the purists think it's fine to play with infinite lives and save states...while you're learning.

That one makes sense because no one is claiming they beat the game in the run where they continued to practice the other stages or save states to achieve a similar effect, and console port officially support this through their training modes.
Ironically you are being a bigger "purist" than whoever you are complaining about and limiting how you learn the games.

post the demake version of the reaction image

Of course you'd agree with the retarded first post, dumb normalfag tourist.

Oh wow he was later credited in some no-name shooters that were eventually released in a baker's dozen tier emulated collection. You sure got me.

In fact a bunch of the purists think it's fine to play with infinite lives and save states...while you're learning

I hate that shit. Worse is "pros" who watch strategy videos before they touch a game. Bitch, you didn't even play it before having it solved for you

bro doesn't know the difference between practicing and credit feeding

I want to post an "in honor of this thread" by trying to clear UFO Hard, but rangeban means no image posting.
It's even more fitting considering the Space Invaders tribute at the end of stage 6 and OP's image.

It's too tough for a casual newcomer to get into.
The approach of making newcomers play the tougher games and making them drown or swim is a bit harsh here. Not many are receptive to that, and the goal is introducing them to the genre not making them turn away.

Not exactly my favorite way to learn the games because routing by yourself is fun, but it's valid given the context.
I could just go to an arcade with a better player and watch him play to learn strats.

no-name shooters

based retard

Even if you know the strats, you still have to be able to execute. This shit's like saying it's cheating to practice specific measures of a song, or to review film of an opposing football team before playing a match against them, or doing figure studies to master the human form in art.
People who watch speedrunning events don't all just magically become able to invalidate the gameplay by virtue of seeing it happen.

Its weird how everyone seems to have something to say about this topic
This same thread keeps getting made and people keep replying
On the other hand maybe 10 people on this board actually plays this genre regularly

Shmups with great scoring systems?
streamable.com/aka2ai

Some people are offended by the existence of games that don't cater to them. And shmups cater to a small minority, so yeah.

he's not wrong
they're a product of their time and get boring pretty quick.
the only people who can chain replay them are autistic af

Delusional faggot.

Yeah but there seems to be something else
like this faggot that has probably already replied to the thread 20 times Its like they need to put the genre down to feel good about themselves, like they are mad that other people enjoy it and they cant
Wild stuff

lolicons mostly

Every genre has its handful of schizos, sadly

Thank you, game suggestion anons. Was an informative thread.

Here's the original babe

no-name shooters

bait used to be believable.

I think modern shooting games and shoot-em-ups are entirely different genres

See you later anon, don't forget to post your progress here

I still don't get how this shit managed to get so much porn

didn't finish reading the extremely short post award

schmups

c

why do you lads do this

g*rmoids....

Pretty much what happens to any game where the creator begins listening to the "fans" aka the loudest most obnoxious and retarded munchkins.

Crimzon Clover is everything good about Cave and none of the shit and has proper difficulty curve between modes (beginner > arrange boost > arrange normal > arcade). It fucking slaps.

Which parts of actual CAVE you dislike?

Nobody's gonna get interested in the genre just by spamming bombs and continues.
Developers who put infinite credit feeding in PC/console ports of arcade games are niggerfaggots.

They expect the players to self regulate

pic

Like pottery
Shit opinions AND wrong facts every single time

Anon, who I hope isn't you asked the question "what the FUCK is the point of playing with infinite lives".

If you are the same person, you need to work on your object permanence.

Ironically you are being a bigger "purist" than whoever you are complaining about and limiting how you learn the games.

Not a complaint. Those people DO exist but would be hyper arcade purists. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Shmup

Headline discarded. Opinion discarded. Anyone who talks like that is a faggot.

There's no hypocrisy. Not a single activity ever regulates how you prepare for a run/play/match etc. Only what you actually bring in the ring

You prefer the term Schmup then?

no one has ever declared someone's clear invalid because of what they did in some previous play session

Slowdown that reached completely fucking unplayable levels by Futari/DFK.
Convoluted loop/route wankery. Meanwhile actual alternative game modes or releases are some weird side grades that only scorefags are gonna care about.

Fair for slowdown
Not sure what's the issue with loops, no one is forcing you to play them.

Fighting games have gotten easier and easier to play as years passed and new games released. And they are still trying to make it even easier, getting as far as removing motion inputs. So no, i don't think that it's relatable to fighting games.

At this point Touhou is more popular and recognizable than the entire rest of the genre put together so I'd say he is demonstrably wrong.

People say this but

Make a decently difficult non elitist shmup

It doesn't sell

Why are you fuckers nowhere to be found when we got shit like Sine Mora?

the answer is that they're lying, normalfags will literally NEVER buy a shmup on mass, if they tell you "do X and Ill buy it" they are lying and they know it, do not listen to these faggots.

They don't actually play shmups.
Like all the other casuls who bitch about genres they don't like then don't buy whatever game the devs release for them.

that's disingenuous, only a portion of touhou's popularity is due to its actual games

nah nah you just have to contort it into a rougelite for normalfags to stomach it

Proper difficulty modes + side content like Touhou's Extra or Blue Revolver's experimental weapons provide much clearer long-term goals and show clearly what they have in store.
Cave games that have multiple routes and modes are too esoteric about that shit.

if you want to sell shmups, you have to make them not shmups anymore

Not an answer. There is NO way to sell shmups to them without fundamentally changing it into something completely different.

Tell 'em to play Reco's game.
I'm pretty sure Mushi is built as an introduction to danmaku.

Irrelevant niggers are always saying stupid shit like, "The industry is DEAD." when the last game they were personally involved in was in 2005.

Same with the players thoughever

fighting games kinda threaded the needle to some degree. although honestly online quickmatch fighting games are so fucking terrible it was a deal with the devil

make one random approachable shooter reversing 30 years of SOP

WHY DIDN'T IT SELL 30 MILLION LIKE MARIO KART

shut up idiot

Normalfags don't hate shmups because they are elitist and unapproachable, they hate shmups because they think it's shallow, archaic and primitive genre that hasn't evolved since Asteroids and Space Invaders days.

that can be said for tons of games from overwatch to fighting games to gachashit

and?

Normalfags are cattle, so all you need to do is tell some streamer to 1-ALL DOJ

Sine Mora sold about the same as the xbox 360 arcade release of Ikaruga - 100 thousand copies. What does that have to say about the concept that making an easy non-danmaku shmup will sell? Deathsmiles sold almost 300k copies with a physical XBOX 360 release that got localized in America, btw :)
Think about that. One of these supposedly unapproachable bullet hell games sold 3 times as much as your endlessly journo shilled sine mora eurotrash.

Of course. 110% correct.
Cave's killed the genre by making it so that only freaks can play.
Much like how Third Strike killed fighting games with its nonsense autistic mechanics.

I'd say you pick up the one that looks the coolest to you and stick to it until you beat it on normal difficulty. Every arcade game involves at least a bit of routing and memorization, but those just exist to give you an easier time with challenges that at the end of the day you need to beat with your reflexes and pattern recognition.
Hell, even touhou is a great, place to start. That series difficulty is pretty overrated when you get down to learn it and play it

Probably Hitoshi's best music IMO.
Though Vagrant Story is outstanding as well.

CAVE didn't kill the genre by appealing to what the fans wanted, are you seriously suggesting that CAVE would still be making games if they created worthless memoshit dadshmups like Raiden instead? Fuck off

One of these supposedly unapproachable bullet hell games sold 3 times as much as your endlessly journo shilled sine mora eurotrash.

Gee, I wonder why.

That's not even the argument I'm making though. Matter of fact it's actually the argument casuls are using when they say they'd buy the game if it was 0.7 percent less elitist. It should have sold gangbusters by their logic since it was more approachable but they didn't put their money where their mouth was.

Some people just bitch to bitch.

stupid bait eating retard

Don't tell Mork.

most mediocre horizontal slop imaginable

put sexualized slop on the cover

retards buy it in droves

I fucking hate it bros.

Maybe they should move on from Space Invaders and try new things?

Yep, I'm totally sure 210k Americans and Europeans bought Deathsmiles in 2010 because they were loilicons. That's totally a big Western demographic, especially in the mid 2000s!
retard

If anything that's a deterrent for non-Asian audiences

Normalfags don't like games where you aren't staring at a man's ass for 90% of playtime.

I'd say SA is a bad place to start only because it has such gimmicky shot types that might detour some people. When you get used to them it's amazing though, 1ccing with every shot type turned SA into my favorite touhou game.
God I love sexual assault.

I don't get it? Deathsmiles is the approachable game here, it's a kids game with simple routing and VN styled cutesy store. Sine Moira was marketed for hardcores that could 1cc Battle Garegga

this faggot again

Twitter mob didn't exist in 2000s.

sine mora was marketed for hardcores

No, it was marketed by journos as some kind of revolutionary step forward that EVERY shmup hating normalfag who think shmups have never developed past space invaders needed to play. It was marketed to the mainstream.

Why not add DIFFICULTY SETTINGS then?
Oh wait, many shmups DO have those! In fact Touhou has had them for like 50 years at this point!

Retarded headline, if devs are so worried about making the games harder why not just add difficulty options or add more gimmicks to make the games fun in other ways even if they're less "pure".

I love DDR but I'm shit at it, do you think I pick maximum difficulty and lose every time? No! I pick a difficulty I can have fun with and dance, its the same with shmups.

And the caveman would be right to do so. You defeated your own point

He’s completely correct, the games are stupid difficult unless you have amazing memorization and if you credit feed you can beat them in 45 minutes to an hour. Doesn’t help most have a very similar aesthetic of being either cute or in space. Pretty much none have a plot either. All of the innovations lately too are based around scoring mechanics not actual gameplay either, further limiting it’s appeal to anyone but the most hardcore competitive players It’s a genre that just doesn’t appeal to a lot of people who play games today outside of a niche crowd. It’s like fighting games but even way less popular.

Never knew shmups had their own E33

the games are stupid difficult

memoshit trash from the 80s is harder and normalfags loved it, so go kill yourself retard

unless you have amazing memorization

the non-danmaku games, again, require way more memorization, as opposed to danmaku which actually tests your fundamental skills, so again you need to kill yourself

if you credit feed

kill yourself

most have a similar aesthetic

Nope.

none have a plot

cant tell if baiting or genuinely retarded

Why are shmups always so linear? Why not let me fly around my ship and shoot shit like a metroidvania or something

Thats pretty disingenuous anon. You and me both know why 2hu is popular, its a phrase that begins with reimus and ends with armpits

Why not add DIFFICULTY SETTINGS then?

Meme answer. Nobody cares for those, everybody is too proud to lower the default setting. Nobody considers 2cc and up a legitimate clear, if you admit you had to coinspam the community will think less of you.

Shmups have had 3 E33's

Ikaruga

Sine Mora

Cygni

why are shmups shmups? I want something else that isnt shmups

retard

Play Darius games.

I'm not that into shmups, but from what I understand Ikaruga also was a point of contention for shmup fans for a while (still is?).

It isn't, you're a baiting retard who is trying to push the narrative that shmupfags hate ikaruga because you are trying to discredit us. I can see right through you.
shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=73135 (look at number 8)

Honestly shmup+metroidvania hybrid sounds fun.
There are some doing danmaku patterns as attacks but that's not enough, I want to see how they work with you being able to fly around in a ship all the time.

struggling to beat th6 on one life and no bombs

look up 1cc videos to see how other people do the parts I struggle with

they just spam bombs and bruteforce it with lives

no argument

response is to post the forum

lol. lmao. thanks for the concession.

We’re not living in the 80s anymore retard, we have so many more options now, people are not interesting in a creatively bankrupt genre. No space shooter game has ever had a plot taken seriously by anyone. It’s either some girl blows up a witch or a ship blows up some robot’s core, it’s the type of excuse plots you’d expect from a fucking nes game. I don’t play this trash nor do i have any interest in playing pink bullet garbage nor outdated crap from the 80s

grandad

another disabled retard incapable of pattern recognition thinks you're supposed to memorize precise route through random bullets somehow

Are they only playing them for validation?
I 1cc'd several games including non-shmups because it was a fun challenge. Sometimes multiple times because some ship types feel too cheesy.

why are shmups shmups? I want something else that isnt shmups

retard

This is why your favorite genre is dead, and you’re reliant on talentless hacks to make the same shit over and over

It's overrated, but is still a fine crafted shmup

shmups aren't popular because they're actually good now and aren't like dogshit from the 80s, which is bad because they're too hard now

uh actually, memoshit 80s trash is way harder than danmaku and is also fucking trash, why would you want that?

WHY DO *YOU* WANT MEMOSHIT 80S TRASH?? you STUPID fucking chud!

Pills.

he doesn't know

Look up the NMNB clears specifically.
If the restriction is only 1cc, people will use all their resources

People enjoyed Ikaruga yes, but I do remember reading on system11 how people argued Ikaruga wasn't end-all-be-all of shmups, which I think is a fair point. The contention mostly came from how among critics or the like Ikaruga was the one game that was talked about, ignoring a big landscape of other titles in the genre.

reduction to absurdity
kill yourself

Resource management is important part of any game.

Who the hell is playing space shooters in 2025 beyond the most autistic of freaks and japanese neets.

This isn't an argument.
Kill yourself, failed normalfag. You dont belong here.

Come through my screen and make me, your genre is dead and i’m laughing because they were made as scams to drain quarters from impressionable children

Space Invaders Extreme 2 never got ported elsewhere

the only way to play it is with a DS or via emulation

Not the worst outcome but damn I'd love to see how it'd look on modern consoles or PC.

autism and japan are.... bad!!!

holy reddit batman
Lilac Zero released 2 months ago. Dead my ass.

This is Anon Babble not Anon Babble i belong here more than you grandpa, make sure you get too worked up gotta worry about that blood pressure

Get used to emulators if you want to shmup

Based, space shooting is so passé. I'm with the cool gramps and play insect and plasticine shooting.

You're right, I was mistaken. This is not a board to discuss videogames, like Anon Babble. This is the place you zoomie futafags go to goon to your sissy agp porn. Sorry, I forgot.

Bait used to be funny

See all over the internet that Dodonpachi is the hardest bullet hell alive

Go to purchase it

Theres a little girl on the cover

Something tells me these games are for the ankle monitor crowd

memorizing 45 minutes of bullets over several hours just so i can say i “beat” it in 1 credit

Miss me with that shit. That’s artificially making your game longer with no effort.

DFK isn't the hardest anything.
But it's fun if you are into bullet cancel mechanics.

getting good and improving yourself is artificial

pills

That's a big girl

shmup fans tries to use shump terminology to explain a game that someone clearly isn’t a fan of

I didn’t think any genre could have more autistic fans than fighting games but here we are

smashed cars at her feet

little girl