The protagonist is misinterpreted as a hero

writes children of dune to prove that he was a good guy all along

???

when juxtaposed with house Harkonnen, even strictly pragmatic behavior will seem benevolent

Read all 6 of Frank Herbert's Dune books. Are any of his son's worth reading?

Nah

I always self insert so any protagonist is a hero.

Wrath of the Righteous MC on evil/neutral routes.

The films didn't do a good job of showing how manipulative house Atreides actually is/was.

I mean, from a personal perspective, he is.
The actions he took in Dune were a series of reactions to the Harkonnens attacking Arakkis and him fighting for survival. None of the decisions he makes are particularly bad given the information he had.
Then he's even aware that all the horrible things that will result from his continued survival (the Jihad) will be done due to his influence, not because of his decision.
from a cosmic perspective yeah the "good guy" move was to kill himself as soon as he learned what his continued survival would do but that's fucking retarded

I know nothing about Dune but I'm starting to get interested, elaborate anon.

Absolutely 100% not, don’t even read the Wikipedia summaries. They are literal brain poison and will retroactively ruin elements of the original books for you. In a just world his son and that other hack would be executed for war crimes for such a flagrant rape of his father’s corpse and legacy.

when compared to the obsessed pedophilic lord of a house of Finnish war criminals, yes

I started to read one and then it got into jews doing stuff and I stopped reading.

Far Cry 4

Test

What did he do?! hot damn

That was Frank's last book. They were included for basically no reason in that one.

youtube.com/watch?v=Q_xQ-ns5whw

Absolute kino

Paul Atraides seeks revenge against space empire that betrayed his house. He wins bc he can see the future as he is the product of some sort of space witches magic or something, but a lot of lives were lost in the galactic jihad.

Red Dead Redemption serie

Alex Mercer or more accurately a fucking virus with his body. People like to say that sequel ruined him by making him evil but he wasn't a good person in first game either

Ehhh but that's not the case.
Paul IS prescient and has seen the end of the human race if he does not take the Golden Path, which he is too much a coward to do, hence Leto II takes the Golden Path.
Paul was simply selfish and held all timelines as best as he could in paralysis so he could enjoy a little more time with Chani.
He knows what he's doing will lead to Jihad, he knows that he won't do what he needs to do to ensure the survival of the species, and he knows that his actions caused the death of billions of lives.
He even personally takes credit for the jihad during his conversation with Stilgar in Messiah.

NTA but you should at least try to read the first one. They are very well done sci-fi in that everything is tied together and makes sense but do be aware it’s a backdrop to fairly heavy handed political, religious, and social commentary on mankind as a whole. Like there are little in-universe quotes at the start of every chapter and almost all of them sound like something a 14-year-old came up with while high and thought was really deep. There actually is some depth to them but your gut reaction is probably going to be to dismiss it because it sounds like something straight from the Halcyon days of r-atheism.
The first four books are great and the fifth and sixth are good but kind of go off the rails. Don’t read anything else.
(imo, 1>3>4>2>6>5)
And regarding the two newest movies, they are pic related on gigasteroids.

Artorias from dark souls.

what is your pic about?

He does not win because he can see the future, he wins because he controls the fremen, has a nuclear arsenal that could destroy a planet, and because he is the Kwisatz Haderach.
He isn't the product of "space witches magic", he is the product of a 10000 year old breeding program designed to produce a savior through genetic manipulation, trained as a human computer, and able to use Spice to completely see the future and all possible timelines with 99% accuracy.

Starship Troopers

The voice is definitely space witch magic. Spice might as well be magic as well.

helps stop bitches from manipulating humanity

read all six books because the god emperor's plan has them running things again at the end in a new system of government: dictatorship with a jury of (female) peers

In the future, there is a great war between man and machines, and computers/AI get banned after man wins

In order to space travel, you need human computers called Mentats drugged up on genius-cocaine to calculate your warp jumps

The only source of this genius-cocaine called Spice is a fucking miserable shitty desert planet called Arakkis, anyone who owns this planet is rich beyond description

Book start, Paul's family the Atriedes are a space aristocrat house who are given Arakkis by the Space Emperor from the Harkonnens, the Atriedes' rival.

Notably, everyone knows that this is a political play to give the Harkonnen motive and opportunity to wipe out the Atriedes once they're on Arakkis, comically everyone who's not Paul's dad basically treat Paul's dad as a dead man walking behind his back for the entire book

Harkonnens attack, kill Paul's dad, and send his mom and him off to the desert die while recapturing the planet

However, they're rescued by the planet's natives, who have lived in a shitty nightmare world for so long that their entire society is the closest thing to a supersoldier race without supernatural augmentations

Ages ago, Paul's mom's hippie order came to Arakkis and planted a myth among the populace of a messiah figure

Paul deliberately plays along with the natives' culture, and they take the bait, seeing him as a messiah in everything he does

As part of this, Paul gets fucked up hard on Spice, gaining the power to see through time (but not influence it)

Paul sees that he will survive and take over huge amounts of political power

But now, because he's seen as a messiah and everything he does reinforces that, an enormous galactic holy inquisition will begin in his name and glory

Billons if not trillions will die horribly no matter what because of him, even though he'll order none of it

I mean, from a personal perspective, he is.

No
Not even him believes so
He knows he's going to be the trigger for something much bigger than the Harkonnen / Atreides war, he's constantly reminded of it in his dreams, yet he still does it because the thirst for vengeance is still stronger, and he's devastated when the deed is done because he knows nothing will stop the movement he's initiated

he is the product of a 10000 year old breeding program designed to produce a savior through genetic manipulation

This is indistinguishable from space witch magic. The mom speaks with her daughter in the womb bc of their witch training. Then Paul survives the poison that no man is supposed to survive bc of the witch training. Literally indistinguishable from magic.
Also, just want to say that idgaf about anything in the books. Never gonna read them. Ive just saw the movies.

Not really. Children Of Dune says that Paul was such a fuck up his son had to pick up all the slack and be the biggest fuck up the universe will ever see. If Paul got it all right the first time Leto wouldn't have had to do the shit he did. He probably wouldn't exist at all, for the better.

Well here’s three things that I recall offhand, you’ve been warned.
It shows how the Harkonnen betrayal at Corrin was actually a big misunderstanding and the Harkonnen was actually far away the most morally good person involved.
Holtzman, the guy behind the shield and repulsion technologies, was actually completely useless and stole all of his ideas from other smarter inventors working for him. Those two inventions were created by a disabled psychic girl who then transcended humanity and turned into a spirit to guide the spacing guild.
The Baron was actually super ripped and good looking and only became fat and ugly because the same reverend mother from the beginning of the first book infected him with one of the STDs she kept in reserve in her vagina after she seduced him to get his sperm to conceive Jessica.
The two people at the end of book 6, which everybody thought was just a bizarre homage to his wife, are actually copies of the two thinking machines Omnius and Eramus that got jettison into space after the Butlerian Jihad and are headed back to the central systems, driving the honored matres before them.

Read my friend, read. It really is one of the best sci-fi stories ever put on paper. And don't be confused by foreign words and concepts in it, it will all be explained in time.

No, it isn't.
The voice is using subtleties in psychology and physiology to manipulate people at the most underlying aspect of their psyche.
Spice is not magic, Spice is a drug that some people can use to alter their consciousness to see the future.
Paul can only see the future so clearly, because he is a Mentat that can examine large quantities of information and organize them into a coherent vision.
You did not read the book

Spice is not magic, Spice is a drug that some people can use to alter their consciousness to see the future.

lol, just stop being so hung up on the magic part

If you've never read the books, then you have no clue what you're talking about and are wrong.
It isn't magic, and you're a midwit.

Nope

He didn't write Messiah as a response to Dune's reception. Herbert had already written several drafts to Messiah and Children by the time Dune was published.

The Nerevarine kinda

Paul is arguably more evil in the movies.

But it isn't magic, the books are clear about this.
We don't start to push into magic nonsense until Leto II, not that you know or care

DUDE SANDTROUTS LMAO

ohhh you mean in-universe. damn man ease up a little it's just a book series. I did read them and if you don't consider talking to your ancestors magic in general then lol.

He also has at least 30000 years of memories. Leto has memories from ancient Greece

It isn't magic

Indistinguishable from magic. Cant you read? Space witch magic. Hope that triggers you. Dont care about your precious books. Kys. Only the movies matter now.

OK, now explain the genetic memory stuff including Duncan’s that explicitly includes memories up until death where the body was not and could not have been recovered.
Mysticism is a big part of the books and I think you’re doing them and yourself a disservice by doggedly insisting that nothing is beyond science.

Genetic memory is also not magic btw

Are American normies even aware generally that Dune is an anti-abrahamic book? I imagine the Christian soccer moms would be mad at the whole thing. Then again the new movie is completely neutered and the whole point is pretty much buried even deeper beneath the surface level spectacle.

I don't like how Dune turns into a hentai after God Emperor

uh huh, alright

Not making the absolute most perfect decisions at all times makes someone a villain

grow up
Paul did what was best for his situation, the consequences of that were terrible but he didn't know that until he'd already set it in motion. His decisions after that were to save the human race on the Golden Path until the stakes got too terrible that they were paralyzing to him, at which point he chose stasis and hoped his son would improve on his work. That's not evil, you fucking idiots, and the only reason you'd think so is because you're pampered pigs who have never had to make a vaguely difficult decision in your lives

nta but possibly memory is not stored wholly in the brain
for instance, there are many accounts of organ recipients changing their personality, especially heart transplant recipients
perhaps memories are in more of our cells than we think
iirc weren't duncans made by mixing the cells of the dead duncans?

american's can't read so they wouldn't know

Dude what, the entire series is basically Frank Herbert jacking off about Muhammadans mixed with Jews and Christianity. Like literally the three Abrahamic religions.

Similarly, ESL can't write.

He knew the things he'd set in motion as early as meeting the Fremen, he just wanted personal revenge more than the survival of the human race.

Not that guy but I've seen my honeybees watch another bee dance, leave the hive, and spiral around perfectly to go get nectar from a patch of flowers they have never once been to. Genetic memory/instincts etc. does exist irl.

Herbert literally spelled out the meaning on multiple occasions and it's basically criticism of messianic religions

That's totally comparable to asking your 100 times detached grandpa what does he remember about Hitler, in memory.

They were made by mixing some of the cells but again, the book explicitly says that he gains memories from Duncans where cells were not and could not have been recovered. It is a completely perfect unbroken chain of memory of every one of his incarnations that relies on some kind of acausal information transfer.

Paul did what was best for his situation

No
Fuck no
Stop being this delusional
Paul was beyond "not making the absolute most perfect decisions at all times", he's gone and done THE ABSOLUTE WORST DECISIONS AT EVERY SINGLE STEP WHEN HE COULD HAVE BACKED DOWN SEVERAL TIMES
Paul did what was best to satiate his thirst for revenge despite everything, even his own mind, telling him to let go
The truth is, he didn't even enjoy his victory, he couldn't stand proud in avenging his father, because he knew even he would have disapproved of his actions with all that was at stake, and this simple realization literally mindbroke him
Everything he did, he did out of spite, and the universe paid the price
He is textbook evil

Beyond the Dune is now canon.

Him and Jessica are much more sinister in the movies, I agree. In the books they're just frauds utilizing the Fremen, but I feel like Denis was too concerned with people not getting the overall message that he made it too ham-fisted.

I didn't say there is no mysticism or aspects of ritual and magic in the series, but all of the things discussed here are simply not magic.
The whole point of Dune is that there's all of this mystery that the average person sees and thinks is magic, but since Paul is Bene Gesserit, he sees through all the bullshit including the prophecy about himself.
The Ghola is not Duncan until he recontextualizes his personality to become Duncan using Mentat abilities to compartmentalize Hayt's persona, and uses Zensunni philosophy to cause an ego death which recontexualizes his persona into Duncan Idaho.
What makes you think the Bene Tleixlu couldn't access Dincan's body?
They purchased it from the Sardukar because they wanted the body of the best swordsman in the universe.
But no, the Ghola is not Duncan until the end of Messiah.
The other genetic memory stuff, while obviously impossible in the real world, is very much a scientific endeavor by the Bene Gesserit to create a long standing bank of genetic knowledge, since computers are banned.

Leto is the true hero of Dune and Paul was a giant pussy for not taking the sand trout also

4>1>3>2>6>5

The only instances of that I’m aware of are things like Paul doubting the necessity of the Golden Path but go ahead and give me examples. Those are Frank Herbert arguing that despite all of the awful things that may result from messianic religions they are absolutely necessary for mankind's survival, if only to instill in us the absolute need to not need a messiah.

2B in Nier Automata.
(In route b you realise 9S is the actual protagonist and 2B is fucking useless).

I’m talking about Duncan‘s memories that he gets in chapter house, the memories of every incarnation including ones where the body was atomized and never recovered

It's a very interesting series of books but it's basically it's about a manipulative noble family fighting another, losing everything only to have the heir surviving and then he wants revenge against the emperor that signed the dead of his family but also this heir is something of a super human with psychic abilities because he's born from basically space witches that were supposed to only have females because if they do produce a male it would be something completely fucking powerful. Also because they are in the dry ass of the galaxy, the only place known to have "the spice", a drug that lets people think so hard they can calculate jumps in super space with their minds, he ended up becoming an even stronger psychic being because of how the spice affected his mind so now he can see the future and he hates that his future will cause the deaths of trillions but this will protect the human race as a whole, so he has to go with it anyways.
Also his son becomes a fucking big ass worm.

He is.
Regardless of the Jihad and all the deaths that it entails, the resulting events eventually guarantee humanity as a whole's survival forever, and that they will never fall under the influence of a single tyrant ever again. Any amount of sacrifice is justified when that is the guaranteed end result.
If anything Paul was a pussy and DELAYED the Golden Path by not fully embracing it. It took his Son, Leto II to actually achieve it.

Everyone who analyzes Dune and hasn't read and fully understood God Emperor will inevitably fail to understand that Paul is a hero and Leto an even larger one.

Thank you for having an actual informed opinion.
I think it flies over a lot of people's heads that Paul is as much Harkonnen as he is Attreides. And he therefore has just as much experience in his genetic memory as a ruthless Harkonnen than as an Attreides.
You see how hateful and spiteful he really is when he is dealing with Irulan.

Yeah but aren't mentats like super computer brains or some shit? Maybe they have super genetic memory too.

The whole subplot about the messiah being a socially engineered conspiracy to take over the world through power that went haywire because his legend broke free and lived on bringing suffering is pretty much the problem with messianic religions we have today

Kratos is a fucking retard. I can't stand those dumbass games

She's far from useless. She's the combat model, she's doing the heavy lifting during many of the fights. Naturally 9S is not a combat model so he controls the counterintelligence side of things. They're both critical and designed to work in tandem.

Couldn't say, I'm on God Emperor of Dune.
That sure could be magic, I wouldn't know.

yeah and they do super coke to have super visions. it's magic, but ok, that's what the setting is.

He WAS a good guy compared to shid his kiddo pulled

It's his fault his kid had to do that shit, which makes him exponentially more culpable.

Yes they do but Alia does straight up have the personalities of her ancestors speak to her, but that has more to do with her being pre-born since she is not a Mentat.

being smart is magic

I'm sure it seems like that to you, Anon

lol why did he name that guy Idaho?

HE ABSOLUTE WORST DECISIONS AT EVERY SINGLE STEP WHEN HE COULD HAVE BACKED DOWN SEVERAL TIMES

Hasn't read God Emperor

Everything Paul does feeds into the Golden Path. He simply failed to take the final, even crueler, steps to enact it.
Backing down, at any point, results in Humanity stagnating under prescient tyrants for the rest of time. Paul saw this. Yes, he takes pleasure in decimating the Harkonnens, but their collapse is important, as is the collapse of all the Great Houses.

Heinlein's masterpiece. A book about individualism vs collectivism/communism with a coat of cool ass power armor soldiers launching nooks at at bugs and long talks why violence is the ultimate authority.
Fun little retard book. Apparently the dude didn't want to be a scifi writer but he had to whore himself to make a book that people wanted to actually buy and read so he can continue to study political stuff and shit

Colorado was too long.

The writer was a burger and he has very little creativity with names

Paul would have had to do the same shit if he chose the Golden Path. Thats what it is. Paul backed down from it, but Leto II understood it needed to be done.
Ultimately Leto II's cruelty is in service of all Humanity and 100% justified based on the result. Paul's is a drop in the ocean comparatively.

you're changing subjects. maybe mentats do work better with super coke, we have precedents like this irl. what's then about super coke letting you call up your ancestors to tell you what to do?

They explain it if you read the book, anon

What about the opposite?

Big Boss

reddit faggots: Heh, I am le monster...........

I did. It's magic.

Drakenier series.

Everything Paul does feeds into the Golden Path

The Golden Path is a fraud
A literal self-fulfilling prophecy
It is Paul and his progeny that brought about the doom-bringing stagnation that the Golden Path was meant to topple

poison the well, then sell the antidote

Wow thank you kwisath aderach u are my greatest ally

Gets hit with a status effect in the sequel

it gives him a power up

What is this? Pokémon?
Also

Honored matres are so good at sex, that they turn you into a slave since that pussy is so good.

Any videogames have characters like that?

Hellstrom's Hive > Dune

fun fact: the names of House Harkonnen are supposed to sound russian (since they represent le evil cold war russians), but Herbert was too dumb/lazy to do his research. Harkonnen is actually a finnish name.

Nier did nothing wrong. Humanity was fucked and there was no chance of a recovery anyway. The Replicants carry on the human spirit and condition better than most Shadows, so if humanity is what you want to preserve, you're better off prioritizing Replicants.

You looked at the pages maybe but you clearly did not read it if things that were explicitly explained elude you.
I don't even understand what you're getting out of this conversation other than being aggressively ignorant for no reason

kek thank you for your informed opinions as usual Anon

being aggressively ignorant for no reason

lol same to you

no u

lol

Is it summer already?

It is Paul and his progeny that brought about the doom-bringing stagnation that the Golden Path was meant to topple

Ignore's Leto sacrificing himself to achieve the actual end of the Golden Path

If it was a fraud Leto II could have continued to be an immortal god emperor until the end of time. Not only did Leto II intentionally breed the one thing that could break his rule into humanity, his death triggers the exodus that will preserve humans through any natural or unnatural disaster. Leto was planning his own death as part of the Golden Path from the very second he started the process. A brief period of stagnation was the price to pay for it never occurring again the rest of time.
Did you even read the book?

The Shadowlord was dick length from saving humanity until Nier stepped in.

I don't get why you're so set upon it not being magic when it's exactly that. Sure the book does some explanations but it's not that it matters much. It's much worse than any hard sci-fi that at least attempts to settle whatever they made up with current knowledge. Is the force not magic to you?

I don't get why you're so set upon it not being magic when it's exactly that. Sure the book does some explanations but it's not that it matters much. It's much worse than any hard sci-fi that at least attempts to settle whatever they made up with current knowledge. Is the force not magic to you because they made up the midichlorians or whatever?

Fun fact
Anglo writers suck at naming in general
Herbert

what names should i use for the characters for my space opera

Ah ha! Paul, Idaho, Jessica

Tolkien

what names should i use for this volcano where this hobbits heroes will face certain doom

Eureka! Mount Doom

Lol lmao, kek even

Nier did everything wrong, however.
The final speech against Shadowlard is proof enough, Nier just schizos against the Shadowlard saying things like

you think I'm supposed to care???? I'm just here for Yonah bro, get your ass killed

and then the Replicants all died shortly afterwards, the end.

fictional science may as well be magic. magic usually has rules too

im not Familiar with Dune apart from the movies and i'm now watching the Sci Fy series. Is Children of Dune regarded as bad? I generally see bookfags talk well about it (I haven't reached the tv adaptation of it yet)

Compared to everyone else, yeah.

Yes, we should all emulate the grorious Japanese instead.

The Golden Path, in its final form, was only a thing because Paul did what he did. If he was buried in the sand that would not have been THE Golden Path.

The visuals have aged poorly but it competently tells the story.
Both the miniseries are nearly scene for scene exactly how the books tell the story. So its nice to see it put to screen. But it doesn't really add much to just reading the books.

Project Gestalt was tampered with and doomed to fail from the beginning, especially so when the humans became Shadows. There was no hope of recovery from that point on.
Just because it's a personal matter doesn't mean he did anything wrong here. I don't even think you can say it's for the wrong reasons, it's to save his daughter/sister.

Is Mount Doom not an appropriate name? It's an active volcano that exists in a pre germ theory world, and there's fancier names for it in other languages

they don't make em like mcdichael anymore, what a player

Tolkien meant Fate when he wrote Doom. In most translations you'd see Mount Doom localized something similar to Mount Fate. He just hated Latin roots for some reason.

The force is space wizard magic and is in no way comparable to anything in Dune.
Is there magic/ mysticism in Dune?
Yes, I've said that in this thread.
The Voice, Prescience, Gholas, and Genetic Memory are out there concepts but they are not magic in the way the force is.
I'm only "set" on it not being magic, because it's all explained in-universe as not being magical in nature.
I don't get why you are so set on Dune featuring magic, and you've given no explanation as to what even qualifies it as magic other than your own lack of understanding the material.

Paul to me is neither a hero nor a villain. His entire life was rigged from the start with the Bene Gesserit freaks breeding program and plan for intergalactic domination. If anything, he showed moral courage in trying to resist this pre-written destiny. Also other anons are right to point out that the other factions vying for power were more evil.

Because it's so nonsensical it might as well be magic. Whatever man.

If Nier wanted to save his daughter/sister, why did he doom all the Replicants to die? Seems like he did something wrong along the way, perhaps a lot of things. Everything, one might say.

Nier made up this enemy in the Shadowlard and played hero and killed everyone since writers like Taro don't like typical 'hero saves the day' stories and would rather do the 'subversion' thing.

Project Gestalt was tampered with and doomed to fail from the beginning

Is this stated somewhere? I haven't played the game in 10+ years but that would really dampen the ending.

Are they really that bad? I started reading buthlerian jihad after I finished chapterhouse, since I was recommended that if I wanted an ending to read that and then proceed to hunters/sandworms.

i-its not magic bc the book explains its not magic even though I know its magic

Kys.

I'M NOT YOUR STUD

proceeds to breed with all the women around him

FUCK YOU DUNCAN

It really isn't nonsensical if you actually read the words on the pages.
You are right, stuff you do not understand may as well be magic, but the rest of us who read the books know better.
Are Glowglobes magic too? Cone of Silence?
I'm sure Attreides Battle Language is pretty magical to you, as well? Shields? Ornithopters?

I can't remember where specifically but it's in one of the side materials, probably Grimoire Nier.
I'll admit I forgot about this part. The point stands; corruption of a Gestalt via Black Scrawl is inevitable regardless of whether or not Nier kills Shadowlord here.

In the first prescience is explained as simply peak cognition. Spice basically just turns you into a supercomputer with advanced autism. In sequels however Herbert says fuck it and just makes it a magic potion of seeing the future.

That isn't what I said, but of course I don't expect much in the way of reading comprehension from you.

Herbert is undoubtedly very aware of the fact that the golden path directly undermines the second coming of Jesus Christ and Mohammed.

Incorrect.
The Golden Path's ultimate goal was humanity spreading out and becoming immune to prescience. Paul saw this after drinking the Water of Life and the Bene Gesserit were aware of it even before that. Leto II was aware of it as an infant.
Paul's actions did nothing to change the Golden Path. If he had simply died without having children then humanity would have ultimately succumbed to another prescient ruler who would not have chosen the Golden Path and instead ruled selfishly. That was always the danger that the Golden Path was avoiding. And a prescient tyrant would, of course, also be aware of the Golden Path as seek to eliminate it. IF the Golden Path were not enacted by Paul or his children the chances of it ever being enacted, would be near 0. And if it weren't enacted humanity would suffer even worse than under either Paul or Leto. And without end.

lol

fictional science is magic

How can you even assign moral characteristics to a literal superhuman who sees far more than anyone else?

space nazi breeding program spends 10,000 years making a political/social/natural weapon so they can control the universe

this is the weapons fault for being born and then choosing the future with a trillion deaths instead of 10 trillion

cutting the scene in the tent with his mother when he realizes what she's done and what he has to do made you film viewers miss so much of the plot it's unreal villeneuve you hack

Sounds like someone didn't read Brian's books.

He absolutely is, holy retards

Why would we read fanfiction?

Why does the story try to deny he's a messiah figure when he clearly is?

yeah kid our bloodline is never ever supposed to produce a male

it's probably not a big deal that you are male and able to use the voice though

I don't need to greentext the rest of the events, the denial should've ended right there.

Not really. Spice has nothing to do with the supercomputer/ mentat training. Paul is trained as a Mentat long before he ever arrives on Arrakis and is exposed to Spice. Paul has such clear visions in part BECAUSE he has mentat training and can extrapolate profound quantities of data while exposed to Spice.
This is why Alia doesn't have clear visions line Paul does. She isn't a mentat and isnt smart enough to become one.

Not canon

to be fair, I'm pretty sure that line was lifted straight from the book
or paul at least says something very similar

You are fucking stupid

Do you really need a guide when the guide is

Beginner: Read book 1

Intermediate: Read book 1 and 2

Advanced read book 1, 2, 3 4

Expert: Read all the books written by the original author

Master: Read all the books

You guys are fucking stupid. You don't get it

You need more Verne in you.

I don't think he's outright evil even after reading the books. In the grand scheme of things, he's firmly in the gray area along with 2/3rds of the characters in Dune. There are very few outright good and bad people in the story.

your dumb faggot

Moviefag here. What’s the rundown on the blonde girl that had like 10 seconds in the second movie? I’m planning to read them eventually.

Irulan?
The Emperor's daughter. Political marriage pawn. Thinks she's more important than she is.

She troons out into Baron and dies for no reason. Hope that helps!

Lol

Paul's sister? She is born with the mind of an adult and becomes possessed by the Baron later in the story.

Princess Irulan is the Imperial Record keeper, a member of the Bene Gesserit, and the Emperor's daughter.
Paul proposes marriage to her and essentially holds her hostage through the events of the third movie.
She's more or less his guarantee that the Emperor won't try to do some fucked up shit to take back the empire

snif spice

get prescience power

can see all the upcoming paths

decide to take the least worst

THE HERO IS EVIL GUYS

It's Attack on Titan all over again.

Born with the mind of an adult, you say

Aot was total complete retarded slop for 15 year olds

She unironically gets grumpy when she's not allowed to take part in "spice orgies"

I bet you think Eren is evil.

Hyperion mogs Dune

Yes. In the book she is born and there's a four year time skip, and she kills the Baron.

state mandated fish speaker gfs

Why is he bad again? Because he is a bit ugly?

Im glad his sister got some porn in the VN. Prime loli smut bait.

when you realize this fatass literally plagied Dune and got millions for it

Why? The writer himself hated Eren at the end.

He only chose the least worst among the paths that included his vengeance.

Every modern author copied dune in one way or another. Some in more ways than others...

Yeah her. So she’s the one in the moms belly? The next movie is messiah or are they still adapting the first book?

That sounds fucking sick.
Does he go along with it or pussy out?

The next movie is Messiah

First book ends when the second movie ends. Next movie is basically people walking around a swank palace talking about how evil Paul is while Paul goes "mmm yes quite but I'm actually even more evil that you could possible imagine, MOHAHAHHAAH"

Hyperion is fun.
But its also fucking weird. And there's very little to talk about with it. The only thing you can really say is how awful the Federation decision making is

The only thing i like about Dune is the Zombie Escape map based on it.

He pussies out but his son goes balls deep in the worm pussy

It will be the 2nd book, but a lot of people think it's a different "path" because of what he did with Shani

brian said his dad locked himself in his room and hardly talked to him while he worked on his books
iirc somewhere in one of the original dune novels it says something about return to the mean where genius parents have average children
hmmm

He went with it and his son became a big ass worm. Don't ask me how that happened, it's some "absolute literature" bullshit

who have lived in a shitty nightmare world for so long that their entire society is the closest thing to a supersoldier race without supernatural augmentations

That's the shittiest cliche I've ever seen and I'm never going to forgive Dune for it.

Harkonnens have to die anyway along with all the other Houses

Guess I'll pick the one that makes that fat floating fuck and the Emperor suffer too

The Jihad happens regardless of everything else. Everything "evil" people attribute to Paul had to happen.

Brian's shitty writing is non-canon by the way.,

Heh.
Skill issue.

Moviegoers aren't intelligent people. Expecting them to use morals instead of just clapping at what the protagonist does is big ask.

friend reads God Emperor

said it was boring and he didn't like it because he's against eugenics

makes sci slop into FANTASAY

It's like that greentext about Italians

take short sword from literal who barbarians

conquer half the known world with it

take the idea of sex from the Greeks

do it with women instead

copy the idea of pasta from the Chinese

remove the dog and have a world famous meal

"I'll want a complete briefing on this rebellion today, but first: why are there no men in Leto's army?"

"The Lord Leto says that when it was denied an external enemy, the all-male army always turned against its own population. Always."

"Contending for the females?"

"Perhaps. He obviously does not believe, however, that it was that simple."

"I don't find this a curious theory."

"You have not heard all of it."

"There's more?"

"Oh, yes. He says that the all-male army has a strong tendency toward homosexual activities." Idaho glared across the table at Moneo. "I never. . ."

"Of course not. He is speaking about sublimation, about deflected energies and all the rest of it."

"The rest of what?" Idaho was prickly with anger at what he saw as an attack on his male self-image.

"Adolescent attitudes, just boys together, jokes designed purely to cause pain, loyalty only to your pack-mates . . . things of that nature."

Idaho prided himself on self-honesty and this hit him. Cults of youth and adolescence preserved in the military? It had the ring of truth. There were examples in his own experience . . .

Moneo nodded. "The homosexual, latent or otherwise, who maintains that condition for reasons which could be called purely psychological, tends to indulge in pain-causing behavior-seeking it for himself and inflicting it upon others. Lord Leto says this goes back to the testing behavior in the prehistoric pack."

You heard it incels, we should conscript only based women

The only bad thing he did is pussying out of the Golden Path.

Does dune have any hot older women?

Comes down to whether or not it's easier to psychologically modify men or physically modify women. Women probably do have better innate characteristics for those sorts of military applications.

I wanna snort the spice.

The cool thing is that half the things in God Emperor is serious and the other half is Leto trolling Duncan and you have to guess which is which.

Behead all those who insult Muad'dib.

Of course Lady Jessica is a milf of milf in sciece fiction.

Usually when I'm engaging with something and it spams weird fake jargon at me I get pissed, but with Dune it's fine. Frank just had so much rizz with his terminology that I enjoyed it. Don't think any of you faggot game devs or "writers" have it though.

Weird how it never got adapted into anything

Yet

Knowing Hollywood, they're going to flanderize the hell out of it and try to make girlboss Zendaya Chani out to be the good guy while his abomination of a sister is probably going to get he same treatment.
I know this, and I don't need to be prescient to see it. I just need to know how Hollywood operates.

What vidya would you actually say are like Dune and live up to it? The only game I can think of is Morrowind.

Well he may not have read the book, but at least someone in the writing room did. Far too many pointed references.

Probably one of those that just never actually considers it beyond "the jews told me it was bad".

Don't do it, (you) will only be retarded at maximum performance

What shit did he pull? Saving humanity from extinction?

BRIAN'S BOOKS ARE CANON
BRIAN'S BOOKS ARE CANON

You forgot the part where George made it gay, libtarded, removed the sovl, deep aphorisms, politics annnnd. You know what you're just a faggot with shit taste.

Tleilaxu show up

Whats the alternative, just let the Harkonnens take over?

Triangle Strategy

If I recall correctly, Leto II pulls a ruthlessly brutal regime to force mankind to evolve past the need for an all powerful individual like himself to keep them under control. A lot of the worm god king stuff is Herbert getting philosophical in some really odd ways.

the character does everything he can to ensure that the day of judgement never comes to pass, the ressurrection never happens and humanity denies the second coming of their lord and redeemer Jesus Christ

"Actually he's the hero of the story."

IX niggas show up and break the lore asunder

Well why are they evil? They just have their customs and still let the spice flow. Better than needless house squabbles. Reminder it's never said why Harkonnens are bad besides Baron being a gay paedophile.

I saw this coming as I was walking out of the theatre.
I can't decide how mad I'll be.

sausage fests are gay

Based Herbert

Its more to make them so innately abhorrent of the concept of a tyrant they immediately flee into the farthest corners of the universe so no one person could ever control ALL of humanity again. Also to make them immune to prescience, so no tyrant can just use future sight to find everyone and drag them back under one rule.

This is indistinguishable from space witch magic.

That's the whole point you mouthbreathing ignoramus.
What makes scifi interesting in the first place is how things are written to appear scientifically plausible, not if they actually are, we already fucking know they aren't, but if the writing succeeds in suspending disbelief it has done it's job you absolute mongoloid.

He's not a good guy but he's not the badder guy either, thus he is the good guy when fighting against the badder guy.

he bad because he kill peepul

absolutely brain dead take

it's never said why Harkonnens are bad

Nigger, have you read the books?
They turned their home planet into an industrial hellhole with only them at the top while 99% of the population eats shit. And what do you mean by their customs? Being hedonistic slavers and hunting people for sport?

The same "if its not physically possible and we now how to do it RIGHT NOW then its magic" guy shows up on Anon Babble a lot. If you press him enough he'll eventually say that science fiction doesn't exist as a genre, its all just fantasy. The guy would be hilarious if he weren't so fucking persistent.

I heard a lot of people talk about how weird Hyperion is for a long time. Lots of this time travel, multiple character perspectives, how its impossible to make into a film. I decided to download the audiobook version and threw it into my ipod. I listened to it for maybe two hours and kept thinking "Jesus Christ people weren't kidding, I can barely keep track of these plot lines. This is genuinely avant garde stuff." then the narrator said "Chapter Eleven" and I took up my ipod and realized I realized the entire thing was segmented into mp3 files about 1-2 minutes long and I had it set to shuffle.

Dude, Charismatic Leaders should come with Le Warning Labels.

I fucking hate this quote and I hate the influence it's had on discussion around Dune.

I honestly don't think that's why he wrote the novels, I truly don't, I think it's something he decided afterwards because it's a nice sounding quote and kind'a sort'a fits if you don't think about it. But, if I'm wrong and that truly was what Frank Herbert wanted to convey with the story then he completely and utterly failed.

What warning label did the Fremen need about Paul, exactly? He fulfilled every single promise he made them. He saved them, he trained them, he gave them victory, he took them to the stars, he made Arrakis into a paradise. He literally made every one of their dreams come true.

The Fremen don't care about what happened to the rest of the Galaxy.

And honestly, the Jihad was minimally destructive for a war of its scale. 60B people die across 10,000 planets. That's beyond minimal. That's barely anything at all. 10,000 planets? And only 60B die? Come the fuck on. What a light touch.

And even beyond that, Dune Messiah does a fucking terrible job of showing "the horror of Paul's rule", because it's all off-screen and everything bad happens to unnamed nobodies. We just see the stable rule that happens when it's done. Dune as a whole is only concerned with heroes, little people never matter. We never see anything about what it's like being on the other end of the Jihad, we're just told it happened and meant to think "That's bad."

It's not. It's not a big deal, and he doesn't need a warning label, he did exactly what he told the Fremen he would. And the latter books make him explicitly justified.

Either way, Dune is the only truly great Dune book. Messiah sucks and God Emperor is good in a very different way, but you're better off just reading Dune. It ends perfectly.

Lol.
Its not THAT hard to follow. Seven people's stories told a chapter at a time, a few of which interconnect. Followed by a lot of time travel and weird religous/fate stuff.

To be fair I read the whole saga 3 times and I still no idea what the fuck was the plot even about

I really only remember Endymion and how it's about a man's travels with time traveling Loli Jesus, and how the Space Catholics are out to get them.

Either way, Dune is the only truly great Dune book. Messiah sucks and God Emperor is good in a very different way, but you're better off just reading Dune. It ends perfectly.

Leto II is the true villain of the series, and Paul is the true hero. Duncan Idaho is right about everything in God Emperor, and this is why I can never have a civilized discussion about these books with "Dune Fans." They pretend to be smart by hating the good guys, and proclaiming the wisdom of actual villains.

I've only read the Hyperion cycle, not Endymion.
But Hyperion is basically
Impossibly complex AI's have been manipulating humanity to basically kill themselves for millenia and are at the cusp of succeeding. The future AIs who won sent back a super evil mega robot to assassinate anyone messing around with a bunch of stuff ALSO travelling backwards in time sent by the future humanity who won. All of this messing around with time and shit births God in the body of a "cloned" Keats.
At least that was what the best I could do to put it together.

I fucking hate the idea of the death of the author, but Dune is the one case where I agree with it. I just don't see how one can arrive at the conclusion that

Messiah bad

after reading Dune, especially after God Emperor where a literal demi-god explicitly saves humanity by his actions.

Why has no one attempted to adapt the sequels to film? The only case I can think of is that one Billy and Mandy episode about God Emperor of Dune.

Leto II is the true villain of the series, and Paul is the true hero.

Villain

Saves humanity

I can't take you seriously if you can't figure out that literal endless torture by a psychic tyrant and possible extinction is worse than torture by a psychic tyrant that eventually ends and never happens again.
There isn't anything to suggest in the CANON novels that Paul or Leto are wrong about this.

Where in Dune did Frank Herbert say " Charismatic Leaders are... le bad"?

"Ends justify the means" people have never experienced suffering

Latent memories were unlocked by this post. That episode was total fucking nonsense but now that I have seen the dots connected...

Nowhere, that's the point.

God Emperor is 80-90% Leto talking or reading shit he wrote down. Not only is its message and ideology entirely unpalatable to modern audiences (see: this thread) but it would be terminally boring.

The decision to only do up to the end of Messiah, or Children of Dune is the right one. And the miniseries handles it pretty well.

Duncan Idaho is right about everything

Yes, that's one of his three character traits along with being a perfect fighter and being really good at sex. The books are dumb but the midwits who argue over who is the heel/face in a morally gray work are dumber.

Paul IS prescient and has seen the end of the human race if he does not take the Golden Path

It's been a long time since I read the book, so I could be mistaken, but I specifically remember Paul telling Leto that he did not see the path that Leto takes, with the implication being that Paul's prescience is less than perfect.
This is consistent with the Bene Gesserit's breeding program expecting to produce the Kwisatz Haderach in Paul's son, rather than Paul himself.

Its an interview with Frank thats often posted when midwits try and talk about the Dune movies and how brave Villenhack was to depict Paul as a villain (he didn't do a good job). Or talk about "media literacy"

We should be glad that Heinlein only wanted to write books. TMIAHM reads like a CIA dossier. Also why does every famous sci-fi writer inject weird sexual stuff into their books?

co-ed showers in Starship Troopers (Heinlein)

humanity becomes fully homosexual in The Forever War (Joe Haldeman)

the entire crew of the Endeavour has an orgy after their mission in Rendezvous with Rama (Arthur C. Clarke)

the honored matres entire existence (Frank Herbert)

So what are you niggas arguing about? I could pull out my doc file and start quoting actual passages from the books and my notes on said passages.

Saves humanity

You mean throws it into endless stagnation by becoming a comically evil villain because he doesn't have the cajones to fuck his sister.

He's not Alia.

That exchange is Paul saying he could not take the Golden Path, not because he can't see it, but he doesn't have the courage to take those steps. Paul knows exactly what Leto II is up to, he just couldn't do it himself because he ultimately never wanted even the fate he had. Leto II and Ghanima are fully committed to the path since early childhood.

endless

It literally ends at the end of his book

he doesn't have the cajones to fuck his sister.

He's still human inside and humans aren't perfect

Also why does every famous sci-fi writer inject weird sexual stuff into their books?

Because it's a reflection of entering a derivative, degenerated world. Dune in particular is very gnostic, with the sandworms being avatars of Saturn, or Kronos.

endless stagnation

Its not endless. Thats the point. The Golden Path has an endpoint and Leto finishes it with his death.

If you're referencing something Brian wrote, you're wrong. Brian's works aren't canon.

Paul didn't even know Leto II existed until he was told he sired twins at the end of the book, right before he died.

The Golden Path has an endpoint and Leto finishes it with his death.

Then why did Herbert write two more books after God Emperor of Dune?