In starting the main quest, I don't actually have any choices in how to complete them. I don't even really have any dialogue. There is "yes" and "sassy yes" but neither have any impact.
In fact the only choice in most of the game is whether or not I want to follow the exact trail of events the quest has in mind for me, or decide not to do the quest at all.
Morrowind and Skyrim both were not this braindead. What happened? Why does everyone think this game is such a landmark "rpg"?
yeah the game supports choosing a playstyle to your liking and building a cahracter with attributes to support it. you dont actually have to make choices in a story for a game to be an RPG
This ain’t Fallout, retard
Yes, it's an RPG. If you want games with actual choices, you're looking for cRPGs instead.
playing my role is pointless if it disappears as soon as I interact with any NPC outside of the flavor I decide to kill them with
That's what the guild quests are for.
You can just choose to not do quests that don't align to your character's role, up to and including the main quest itself.
Really? So looking at this list, which of the mages guild quests actually allow you to determine multiple outcomes? I think the only one is the fingers of the mountain quest.
How about completing any of the quests in different ways or through different means? I guess you can either succeed or fail at the ambush to get the soul gem, but again, one example and it doesn't have to do at all with your character's role, but just your game skill?
I can also choose not to play the game. This is stupid. It's not content.
Not all content is intended for every character.
Mage's guild quest
am a mage
still get no choices in the quest, just do what they tell me
You fulfill your narrative/class role (mage, thief, assassin, warrior) with the guild quests.
Then just don't take the quest if you don't want to do the task in character, dumdum.
it's not a legitimate RPG
of course it is bro, just choose not to interact with the world and characters
bethesda fans have been a disaster to gaming
The only disaster here is you being unable to comprehend the idea of being a character with agency within the world.
game lets you play the quests however you want EXCEPT the intro quest
op claims the game doesn't let him do what he wants
bro just play it or don't, it's an old game it's not that deep.
tes is a crpg, oblivion came out for pc before the console ports
The choices in the game aren't what choices you have in a quest but rather what quests you pursue according to your characters role.
lets you play the quests however you want
No it doesn't. The only thing that has been said is that by "play however you want" you can either play it or not play it. Might as well not play the game then.
wrong image, close enough
You can ignore entire quests, including the main one, and still have plenty to do. THAT is the roleplaying in the game, and it's better than Yes/No options. Even BG3 couldn't pull of choices matter despite seemingly trying. Everything is basically option 1 and option 2. And you're always progressing through the same chapters no matter what even if you wanted to make a character that shouldn't give a fuck about the things that are actually progressing the story.
In Oblivion, I can have a good guy that saves the world, or a bad guy that ignores the main quest.
Even Skyrim fucked that up a little bit by tying shouts to quests instead of just letting you find them randomly.
Skyrim is almost as bad as Oblivion. Oblivion pretends to have classes (every game is a spellblade) and Skyrim actually has talent trees, but overall the games push you to do EVERYTHING, regardless of your "class" and don't have many real choices. They are very modern games in that aspect. Something like Morrowind is more of a real RPG, where it takes multiple playthroughs to see everything.
DEM SCROLES BE OL ASSHIT BUT YT BOI OUTEE REEDENEM
All you need to do is play up till presenting yourself to the greybeards, a sequence of actions and events which you can easily justify a character of any morality going through. The main quest proper doesn't start until Delphine tries to rope you in.
Being the mage is the choice though. The quests are made for a mage. If it was another RPG, you'd just have to do out of character shit anyway to progress.
Aren't there a lot of shouts you can only get by doing the main quest even after the graybeards though? I could be wrong. I just want TES6 to separate extremely useful powers from major quests.
a character that shouldn't give a fuck about the things that are actually progressing the story.
then give me an option to actually say and show that in order to end the quest proposition encounter in a satisfying manner, instead of making me exit the conversation and just awkwardly move on
or a bad guy that ignores the main quest.
...and does nothing.
If you were actually a bad guy, you could choose to shack up with mehrunes dagon until then end where you defeat and usurp his power.
Like KOTOR. You know, an actual RPG.
Even Skyrim fucked that up a little bit by tying shouts to quests instead of just letting you find them randomly.
The vast majority of shouts you do find randomly. This nitpick is no different than quest items though, as if you can get the necromancer's amulet any other way than doing the mage's guild in oblivion.
Oh, then it gets taken from you if you want to progress.
I'm pretty sure the only shout locked behind the main quest beyond that point is the one to make Dragons land.
It’s just dragonrend, clear skies, one storm call, and one firebreath word.
Bethesda specifically made oblivion and skyrim for the hyper casual completionists who want to do everything on 1 character and dont want to make a decision they regret later and cant reverse. You had people complain you cant do every great house on one playthrough in morrowind and of all the retarded fan suggestions and complaints Bethesda seemed to have taken that one to heart for oblivion/skyrim at least.
Alright but honestly that's like the worst one to lock behind the main quest, it should be first for characters that are melee only. I get that a lot of RPGs demand you have more than one playstyle, like making sure you put some stuff into ranged too, but I don't think TES is in that kind of position. It's always been the "play what you really want to play and it will work" sort of RPG instead of something hardcore.
Dragons still eventually land and you can pick a ranged follower.
The parts of stormcall and firebreath are in dungeons tied to the MQ, but you can get them without progressing it.
I'm not saying it can't be improved, hopefully everything you said makes it into TES6. But to me personally, it feels like I can actually roleplay in Oblivion more than most games. I never played Morrowind, but what needs to come the fuck back is letting us kill anyone in the game though, that would be the ultimate RPG to me. Like what's the big deal about killing Martin Septim if I don't care about saving the world or the empire anyway?
the quests are made for a mage.
No, they are made for a dipshit mage with Lawful Good phronema.
They even set up a whole thing with necromancy being banned, and it's the ONLY thing NPCs EVER talk about in the mages guild, and the player character never personally gets to interact with that by their decisions. You can't even change that after becoming arch mage, even though it was made a point of the plot that it was a considerably unpopular whimsical decision of the last arch mage, who turned out to have zero depth whatsoever despite the "rumors" circling that he had something deeper motivating him. It's so.... bad.
Isn't the last storm call one in skuldafn? You can't get there without doing the main quest unless you're talking about a glitch or something.
I'm not defending the questline itself, to be clear. Mages guild quests are very weak.
Dark Brotherhood actually does have some options though, just different ways of killing or whether you want the bonus or not. Fighters guild has a few dialog choices too, like ratting on the other recruit not doing his job and just paying that one lady's debt instead of getting her father's sword. It could be better, but there's not nothing in regard to choices.
the player character never personally gets to interact with that by their decisions
Total noob spotted. Were you not paying attention like a retard during the black soul gem quests? There’s a whole game mechanic for being a necromancer.
The c stands for character
No, it stands for computer
This. Can kill anyone without anyone resurrecting.
Martin Septim is unconscious
I don't think anyone thinks Oblivion is a 'landmark rpg' except for normalfags who had only played Oblivion at that point
You are correct I'm probably thinking of a modded playthrough
Skyrim
not this braindead
LOL, it's literally the same shit
no, it stand for classic
No, it stands for cunny
It means choice
No its an extraction shooter.
That's JRPG
Roleplaying games are not classified by the dialogue choices you can make. Linear games like Final Fantasy are still RPGs. David Cage games with branching dialogue trees and alternate outcomes to the narrative are not RPGs.
Oblivion isn't an RPG, it's an ARPG.
But nu/v/ thinks the only thing needed to qualify as an RPG is stat faggotry. I've heard people call Assassin's Creed an RPG without a hint of irony. No difference between here and a YouTube comment section.
I don't know what this autism I'm reading is, but Oblivion's world interactions make it resemble TTRPGs more than CRPGs. The former relies on chaotic encounters, the latter on dialogue.
It’s a Bethesda rpg. So….
Oblivion's world interactions make it resemble TTRPGs
TES games are fantasy life simulators.
That's mainly just Daggerfall
Yes, it's an RPG. lmao.
Arpgs are rpgs though.
Stat shit plus progression is what you need to qualify as an rpg but it's a matter of degree. Asscreeds aren't rpgs, but they have 'rpg elements', which usually means they have some stat shit and progression but not enough to meaningfully count as an rpg.
Go give this amulet to Martin
Just don't lol
Become God of madness or something instead
Cast power word kill (19 stacks of weakness to magica) on the 200 dremoa kyngraves to invade kvatch instead of scamp runts at lv35
Buckbreak mehruns dragon with his own knife
Fame and infamy system.jpg
Unlike Skyrim the world somewhat notices if you got to lv30 by killing puppies for sithis instead of becoming the arena grand champion.
There are entire subgenres of RPGs where you have little to no choice. You're an imbecile.
Is Oblivion an RPG?
Probably. Maybe not. It isn't important.
It only takes three playthroughs max to see everything Morrowind has to offer.
The choice between the three Houses is the choice that locks out content.
morrowind - rpg
oblivion - rpg-light
skyrim - hack n slash action game
That definitely doesnt count
People think they are roleplaying a merchant because they travel from town to town buying and selling goods.
I think that is stupid and you might think that is stupid but if they are happy role-playing that way then they are role-playing the right way.
i got to level 20 by finding all the elven ruins and pilfering their randomized enchanted magic stuff
then i got to level 30 by playing the mage's guild (when i'm a good boy or else I can't finish) and then the dark brotherhood (where i'm a bad boy or else I can't finish)
and it doesn't seem much different either way.
What is a RPG?
O LAWDY DEM SCROLLZ
A catchall section for games that don't fit in clearly defined genres.
a game that simultaneously rewards and punishes you based on specific choices you make
Choose to do quest. Get reward.
Choose not to do quest. Get no reward.
Your definition is far to broad.
more like
choose to help person 1
gain x
but
get locked out of helping person 2
lose access to quest/item person 2 was offering
like the three great houses in morrowind
So like a pick a path to adventure books when you were 10?
I outgrew those to.
It's a kind of game where a character's skills and abilities tied to some kind of abstract representation, usually in terms of numbers, and the character's improvement over time is represented in terms of those numbers increasing. But this has to an important part of how the game is designed and is primarily how the player's interaction with the game is mediated
then why post in a thread specifically about the role playing game franchise, the elder scrolls?
Why does everybody like me, hero of kvatch and arch mage of the arcane university, don't they know I'm part of a secret murder society?
Pelenals armor would know. And the divines will care if your infamy goes higher than fame+NPCs will get the ick about you.
The NPCs have plenty of low relation racially charged dialogue for your character if you're in the habit of not quick loading after murder sprees.
There are entire subgenres of RPG that lack this. There are non-RPGs that have it. This definition is just straight up retarded.
It's not just an RPG, it's an immersive sim but like an entire world/country/region.
fuck it, every game is an rpg because every game has you take on some form of role to play as
that lighthouse has a severed head in it from a momma's boy, which also had LITERALLY no impact on the end of the quest or his character IRL when i met him and he tried to kill everyone, he was just a normal dude and not an autist and carrying around that head to the end of the questline did nothing either
This game was just not very deep.
No. When you're playing Oblivion, you're always going to be the Hero of Kvatch, Grey Fox, Arch Mage, Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, and Sheogorath.
Play Daggerfall if you want a true RPG
You don't spend a lot of time with him so I have no idea what you are complaining about. Everything about him is in his journal. In his day to day life he acts "normal" (as normal as someone can be in the Dark Brotherhood) so he's probably a high functioning autist that can keep that shit in check.
LITERALLY no impact
Literally a lie since he is the vehicle for 90% of the deaths in the Dark Brotherhood.
Also you had to drop the head on the floor in front of him and talk to him if you wanted to get a reaction out him. Keep in mind that this guy is doing all this shit completely unnoticed, so it makes sense that when you meet him he otherwise acts like a "normal guy". Why would it make any sense at all for him to act in a way that leads you to suspect him? Oblivion haters are a bunch of mind broken freaks.
his mommy issues have no impact on his character from what we see in person. He isn't a cicero-type of figure. He's just a dude that says "YOU WILL PAY [with your blood]" and then shanks two ultimate-level assassins Palpatine style, and you kill him in a couple firebolts with no further twist or development. His backstory is irrelevant in practice, it's like it was written after the fact. It probably was.
Skyrim both were not this braindead
Skyrim doesn't even let you say yes. Someone just walks up, locks you into a dialogue and you have a quest now
If the Mother's Head is dropped in front of Bellamont:
"What... What is that? Is that a... a head? No... No, it can't be... I.... Um, Sorry, Speaker... I'm... distracted...."
wow. so deep. glad i had to google that to figure it out and get that one line of dialogue.
Morrowind and Skyrim both were not this braindead
yes, they both were
the final dialogue with dagoth ur boils down to "yes" and "sassy yes." i dont even think you speak to alduin once.
That was his personal motivation for everything he did. A grade schooler could figure that out.
and you kill him in a couple firebolts
number 1) he really is just a regular guy outside of his lunacy. This isn't Mehrunes Dagon.
number 2) If you didn't play through the game on at least expert, you didn't really beat it.
What should have happened instead?
oblivion remastered difficulty is retarded so you are wrong for even suggesting that
morrowind had you do guild vs guild stuff and if you wanted to finish both guilds quests you needed a little finesse.
You are retarded and non-white for not figuring out how to make even master difficulty a joke for you.
he freaks out and attacks you for desecrating the night mothe-I mean his mom that he speaks- I mean writes to in the most schizo way possible.
If I read that note and found her head and knew that he was a member of the black hand, and I went to go meet with the entire black hand in a room, I'd take out the head and wave it around, maybe take a piss on it right there.
This is not a hard idea to construct...
But back to roleplaying, I could also just decide to kill the whole black hand right there and end it. Not like the game is prepared for that, even though they totally could be and just given you some dialogue where the night mother summons you and gives you the same ol "i used you to cleanse the weak" sort of thing.
I don't care if you prefer the original way for some idea of this insane babbling lunatic's stoicism under cover. The fact is this didn't come up as an option in dialogue [show head] "what do you think of this?" and even if you did do the dumb oblivion thing of putting the head in front and speaking to him, the dialogue and reward you get for that is inconsequential to the plot on rails that Bethesda originally wants to design. There is 1 outcome, that's all you get.
I could do it but it wouldn't be fun. It is much more fun to break other games - like morrowind.
he freaks out and attacks you
Then you would complain that his character is written poorly because he spent over a decade planning but can't keep a straight face in a situation like this. The head freaking him out for a second is just a neat little thing they added. The game doesn't even tell you to do that. It's just a little "what if players decide to do this?" sort of thing they added. Hating on this is peak contrarian faggotry.
But back to roleplaying, I could also just decide to kill the whole black hand right there and end it. Not like the game is prepared for that, even though they totally could be and just given you some dialogue where the night mother summons you and gives you the same ol "i used you to cleanse the weak" sort of thing.
It's probably a budgetary reason you can't do stuff like that. You could say "why can't I just shake hands with Mankar Camoran, join the Mythic Dawn and bring about the end of Tamriel and rule as a lord in Mehrunes Dagon's new conquered territory?" There is a cost to that sort of stuff. How come New Vegas just ends after you finish the Main Quest? Because it would cost way too fucking much to account for every outcome in a post game scenario.
I don't care if you prefer the original way for some idea of this insane babbling lunatic's stoicism under cover. The fact is this didn't come up as an option in dialogue [show head] "what do you think of this?" and even if you did do the dumb oblivion thing of putting the head in front and speaking to him, the dialogue and reward you get for that is inconsequential to the plot on rails that Bethesda originally wants to design. There is 1 outcome, that's all you get.
I mean.... they did. He reacts to it, but he thinks twice before overreacting to it. Simple as that. "The dialogue and reward you get for that is inconsequential" yeah like I said it's just a neat little thing they added. Complaining about this peak faggotry.
complain that his character is written poorly
it is already written poorly as I've demonstrated. he's not some omnipotent killer sleeper agent, he lives surrounded by animal carcasses and clearly mentions when he screws up basic things. but his irl facade is not quirky and you cant trigger him to be quirky. it's just boring. it's a boring excuse for not having an interesting ending. the original ending is just as boring. at least if I could choose which ending circumstance I wanted to kill him in, and the night mother acknowledges it, that's it. what budget restriction would come in for that, a couple lines of dialogue for one of the primary quest chains in the game? cmon.
i don't mean to keep badgering this game you like, but morrowind and skyrim were better and yet this game is viewed as special somehow. I just dont understand how bare the R part of the RPG is.
First game Ive bought in over 10 years that gave me buyers remorse. Bethesda games are just dogshit I shouldn't have caved and tried this.
he's not some omnipotent killer sleeper agent
When did the game say he was
he screws up basic things
Yeah?
but his irl facade is not quirky and you cant trigger him to be quirky. it's just boring.
Yeah, ok, fair enough, but I would argue it's perfectly written that he's "just another npc" when you meet him. That's actually why he is so dangerous, he doesn't stand out in any way. It would possibly be more entertaining if he were quirky and noticeably unhinged, but it would also be kind of stupid narratively. He's someone that's quietly carried out all this carnage completely unnoticed.
at least if I could choose which ending circumstance I wanted to kill him in, and the night mother acknowledges it, that's it. what budget restriction would come in for that, a couple lines of dialogue for one of the primary quest chains in the game? cmon.
Ok sure. You want more options on how a quest ends. I'm not going to say anything against that really. When I play a game I tend to try and appreciate it for what it is rather than what it isn't or what it could have been. The Dark Brotherhood is all just side content. In many other games, you wouldn't get anything close to this.
i don't mean to keep badgering this game you like, but morrowind and skyrim were better and yet this game is viewed as special somehow. I just dont understand how bare the R part of the RPG is.
I think Morrowind is the best one. Then I think Oblivion is the second best one, and Skyrim is last for me. I love Skyrim as an adventure game. As a "just fuck around and explore in a fantasy world" I think Skyrim is top notch but I can't get into any of the storylines or what's happening in the world. I think the civil war is the most interesting aspect of it and maybe in a better game they would have combined the civil war and the main quest into a more thrilling and dynamic main quest with twists and turns and betrayals before we have our final showdown with Alduin.
order armour is cool
Morrowind and Skyrim both were not this braindead
lmao
It's the best RPG
Chorrol Mages Guild recommendation quest (quest 1 started)
"find out why this bitch is back in town, she always stirs up trouble about our guild"
talk to her: "go to the mountain and get me this book and I wont tell you why i want it or why you should betray your guild for me"
guild chapter leader: "bring me the book and tell her to kick rocks and I'll recommend you to the magic university"
get the book, bring it to the chapter leader (quest 1 ended)
talk to the bitch outside: "you moron, you still gotta get me that book and I still won't tell you why you should betray your guild. Go steal it for me now." (Quest 2 started)
say "no."
quest 2 ended
Wow amazing role playing game.
What should have happened instead?
The girl should make an appeal to convince the player why they should betray the guild and take her side.
She says she will reward you with something amazing.
You haven't played any of these games have you
redditfrog
Stop avatarfagging
How many rpgs made between 1975 and 1995 would even fit your definition of an rpg?
There are micro-decisions you can make, like when that Dremora asks you for a favor in Mankar Cameron's realm. You can choose to do his little task or you can tell him to fuck off and that you don't deal with demon scum and fight him to the death for the key he has. Or that incompetent Fighter's Guild fool who can't finish a job right, you can cover for him and it will change your interactions with him. There's a lot of these small things you can influence, but in terms of an "RPG" what is an "RPG"? Is it just making decisions for how things end? I mean I can just walk around one of the towns and feel immersed. It's like your living in this fantasy world. I think it's definitely an "RPG" in many respects.
Can you prove that you bought it.
Just do what ultima 7 did a decade earlier and let you actually ressurect people.
Whatever I want it to be, and I'm not gonna tell you until you post something I don't like so I can tell you that whatever you think is WRONG
My Thieves Guild run nearly ended because an important NPC died on the road somewhere. I nearly abandoned the Thieves Guild for that character and decided on doing it on a new character some time later, but then I googled the quest to see if there were ways of completing it without the need on that npc and luckily there was one and I got to continue the quest line.
I generally don't like the "essential NPC" designations.... but I kind of understand why they are there too. Imagine you're 100 hours into the game and some dumb fuck NPC died to a bandit somewhere along the lines and it screws you over and the last save where she's alive is like over 60 hours of gameplay ago.
That's probably the most accurate description I've ever seen.
Morrowind and Skyrim both were not this braindead.
They absolutely were.
Morrowind makes up for it by having superior sandbox elements but cmon.
So I know this is just gonna get lost in the sea but what defines an RPG has changed a lot in recent years. 50 years ago to be an RPG all that mattered was that your character advanced separately to you the player. even for things like D&D the game was just dungeon delving and treasure the "Roleplay" was their sheets said elf and that meant they could cast spells or whatever the fuck else.
TES stopped being an RPG with Oblivion. Daggerfags will tell you it stopped with Morrowind, but they're probably boomers who formed their opinion on Morrowind before playing Oblivion.
Oblivion is an adventure game. And that's fine, it's a fun adventure game. People bitch about missing in Morrowind but that's part of the point of an RPG; you're not playing yourself, you're playing a character you've made. If the character you made isn't good at using spears then they won't hit anything with spears no matter how well you're mechanically playing.
In Oblivion you control an action game character. You become intimately aware of yourself as a player controlling this character model because you can just hit things reliably no matter what your character's skills are.
You can have action combat or you can have an RPG. You can't have both.