Dawn of War: Demastered Edition

Will it still crash when i alt+tab my game? If so then they should pay me reparations for mental damage

I was reading articles about it in gaming magazines before it's release, I pirated 1 and all it's expansions, I bought 2 on steam without even researching it and found it was a shitty moba style game. I didn't even touch 3.

99% of people do not give a fuck about mods, they just want a remaster so they can sate their nostalgia. This is going to be a massive blunder.

wasting req on sluggas

oh, sweety

>youtube shitting on it

>reddit shitting on it

>Anon Babble shitting on it

That tells me it must be amazing

It'll run on a fucking potato, you've got nothing to worry about.

It doesn't seem like it.

DoW2 is a RTT. DoW3 is the moba. They have already confirmed that mods from the past version will work with this version. This whole thead this dogshit.

The game really needed brand new animations and model framework.

It's remastered enough to work on modern systems, anyone nostalgic for this is not going to give a single fuck whether or not the graphics are top notch and use the ray tracing gimmick.

Nobody is shitting on it
64bits is awesome and it's the same game with widescreen support and mod support
That's all it needed

Jesus that looks bad. announcing a "definitive edition" that barely appears enhanced like two weeks after Bethesda launched "Oblivion: UE5 Edition" is a TERRIBLE and tone deaf decision. this, and revealing Marathon before Concord's body got cold are my Fumbles of the Year right now.

Is this the rumored next DoW ? The one where people posted some kind of tie-in toy with the tabletop?

ERM ACTUALLY ITS AN RTT NOT A MOBA

and no one gives a fuck about dow mods or multiplayer, the only thing shills keep autistically focusing on when shilling this dogshit, see here:

DoW2 was already a shit MOBA
In fact, you control more units (but chaff) in 3 than you ever did in 2. In fact, clinically, DoW2 was already the cancer that killed Relic.

I never said anything about mods or multiplayer anon. Your reading comprehension is trash.

why can't they just make a better Dawn of War 1?

because we don't want soulless demakes, dow3 was already too much of mental strain for wh40k fans

Why are you so angry son? Did someone stole your waifu in another thread or something?

and no one gives a fuck about dow mods or multiplayer

I do but what is your point again
It's an awesome game, it's just updating it to new rigs and that's cool

Dawn of War 1: Super mega definitive edition is coming late 2026

Same reason why Blizzard can't make better Warcraft 3/Starcraft 1. They are just incapable of making good games.

Wish they fixed ranged combat effects, always looked like random sprites that never translated into hits

Because DoW was so fucking good they don't know how to, that's why

Be glad we have an excuse to play DoW again

why can't they just make a better Dawn of War 1?

you mean garbage like furry romance to cater to all you faggots here?

8GB

That's not a potato. My PC can't run it.

The game is already perfect, there is literally not a single thing they could do for it in a remake

What's the issue, exactly? A unified DoW 1 sounds like a good thing. Running the campaigns through Soulstorm modding for the QoL kind of sucks.
It should be a free upgrade though.

What the fuck is this thread it is more random than usual
Are these comments bots?
DoW is getting an update for widescreen and mods, that's pretty good

64bit is massive for mods like Ultimate Apocalypse but other than that it looks meh as fuck in terms of being a "remake" and the graphical update looks like they just AI upscaled the textures

Primaris Marines, for a start.

It's not getting an update. This is a new game you have to pay for.

Most of the kvetching I've seen is that the graphics weren't remastered to 2025 levels, which is baffling to me, because graphics are the last thing that need to be top notch for an RTS.

It's just how Anon Babble is now, everything new gets tortanic posting. Look forward to steam charts threads when it's released where people just scream demake for 500 posts

Literally the most inoffensive remaster of all time

Complain

The fuck else do you want? It's DoR with proper widescreen and the UI will actually fucking scale properly now.

Inb4 DoW4

It would have been garbage

JUST BUY IT

Okay, shill, explain why Relic removed mod support.

*DoW

I played it fairly recently and didn't have an issue with the UI or widescreen.

Why would I buy this?

I bet you think you're being real slick with that bait.

buy

Who said anything about buying

The pathfinding is dogshit, the engine is incredibly outdated. This shit is a cashgrab for retards like you.

The pathfinding is dogshit,

Yeah, and even nu-relic knows they can't fix it so they'll leave it alone, sounds good to me.

DoW4 >>>>>>>>> dogshit demasters

I know I paid for AoE2DE and it is great
What else would people expect?

You're saying this when people gooned themselves to death over Oblivion, which still uses a fucking Gamebryo fork for the actual mechanics, and as established, only retards give a fuck about the graphics for this.

Meh, I'd play Dark Crusade campaign again for the heck of it. As long as the pricing isn't retarded

Ok, I apologise. You're right, I would pirate this before I installed the original on steam.

I'm still disappointed it's not a proper remaster, I'm not an autistic nostalgiafag and genuinely enjoy remasters like Homeworld, Oblivion, Black Mesa.

I'm also just mad that DoW 2 and 3 were complete dogshit and that TW:40k isn't even close to release yet.

It gets even worse with mods and any units that larger sizes. Again, why you think this is fine is hilarious. Its a cash grab with better textures.

remaster a game but don't touch the mechanics, animations, or anything important

just change the resolution to be a little better

yikes

its the kind of update other games get for free

The pathfinding is dogshit, the engine is incredibly outdated. This shit is a cashgrab for retards like you.

It is the first game as it is and that's alright

I would like a DoW4 indeed, and since i really actually played DoW unlike many posters I know that as a game is very simple in RTS levels

But the charm and polish of what it does is still unmatched. It is an excellent entrypoint for people to w40k and RTS alike. The production levels were so high with mcuh less budget because they did love the setting more than GW does now.

I would love a proper RTS in the 40k today, but Relic isn't the one to do it right. They can't. They fucked up every single release they've put out in a decade and the only one that was good was AoE4 because World's Edge took the development midway and unfucked it.

But you're mad for something that will not exist, and not glad for something that it is real and actually playable now. It's ok, anon, you've been conditioned to be like that. You can relax. Or don't, it's equally funny.

If you thought DoW was gonna get a full blown makeover in 2025, you might delusional my friend. Have you forgotten who fucking OWNS 40K? It's GW they literally make cash grabs for a living.

Okay, so you agree it’s retarded? Because im gonna keep laughing at 40k fags that bend over for any vidya slop that gets shit out.

Warhammer gives their license to literally anyone so saying something 'won't' exist is insane. Any good game company could make Dawn of War 4 or a completely new RTS.

Oh, so you're just here on safari hoping you'll see another tortanic. That's gay, I thought you were a real person for a minute.

Trvth Nvke

Are they finely going to finish soulstorm. I'm not buy the franchise twice.

These remasters are always sourced out to low quality Indian game companies. Only a proper company can remake a game.

>remaster a game but don't touch the mechanics, animations, or anything important

>just change the resolution to be a little better

Just as God Emperor intended.

announcing this like two weeks after Bethesda showed their ass with the Oblivion Remaster was a huge mistake. i opened that trailer expecting SIGNFICANT visual enhancements and closed it as soon as they showed the big update is just an upgrade to 64bits and an aspect ratio adjustment. that's unironically "free update" tier shit, i'm not buying DoW again for that unless it's like $24.99...

but the oblivion remaster is widely loved and critically acclaimed, it was so good that people forgave todd for saarfield

turns out that the number 1 thing people care about with remasters is modern day graphics

YES GW PLS SHIT IN MY MOUTH

The absolute state of 40k fags, you guys never cease to amaze me the nonsense you'll tolerate just for a scrap of 40k vidya. Enjoy your retextured cash grab.
so why buy it lol
what

GORBLES ON DAMAGE CONTROL

WITNESS YOUR DOOOOOM

a second trvth nvke has hit the tower....

Any good game company could make Dawn of War 4 or a completely new RTS.

There's been only 3 or 4 actually good RTS releases in this decade
People aren't lining up to do it, even though it would be a no brainer
But the DoW label is Relic's, and they fucking suck now so that's really hard.

Making a good RTS is very hard because they must be a great design, much better thought out than a generic platformer or shooter, needs a lot of animations, lots of special effects, interactions, rules, and needs to be a sandbox. Then it has to have a great campaign to draw shitters in, and a great working MP to appease the players. It's a lot of investment and a lot of risks. One tiny fuckup and its all for nothing.

So its gotta be a perfect storm of passion and love for the genre. I wish it happened. I would take an AoE2 reskin in the 40k setting like Star Wars Battlegrounds was, and that shit worked so fucking well.

que

It looked like a pretty barebones definitive edition, and of course being familiar with relic I know they think just merely offering it to us entitles them to be without criticism

BOSS, WE GOTTA GO

Remaster =/= remake

every model is unchanged except this one.
they removed the glowing eyes(for the worse) and made the laser gun have a different light animation(subjective though it doesnt look as flourescent as before)
I have no idea why this is the only one that they changed the design for except just making the texture higher res.
it'll be a very hot potato

Any good game company could make Dawn of War 4

There is a massive audience split between 1 and 2. No matter who does 4 and no matter how good it is, it's gonna be another shitshow.

Yeah that was funny right? When the new model popped up I was genuinely surprised because every prior model was the exact same in the trailer.

every model is unchanged except this one.

The shadows renderer is improved as well.
See: SoB titanic unit has self-casting shadow on its paudrons.

Because theyre actually trying to preserve what made DoW special

I thought they already updated the game and gave it free to everyone who owned it on steam

Well since you brought it up, an AOE2 DE level graphical update

It was really weird, maybe it was a mistake? Even the nu-crons still have the lights in their eyes in official art.

Looks based, proper engine upgrade and not just a shitty cosmetic reskin gone wrong like WC3 was.

Shit thread, great remaster.

that was space marine

enjoy this barebones update that could just be a patch

That'll be $40 pls

kek

Did they make a mistake with the video or something? The "definitive edition" footage looks worse than the "original version" footage.

What's wrong with it?

Oh wait no, you're right.

No, DoW did get an anniversary update that bundled all the games together and uhhhh

I forgot if it did anything else, basically it was just for new players to get all four expansions with a single, cheaper purchase.

Apart from graphics there is nothing to fix/improve. And the parts that do need fixing, like pathfinding, are not really fixable. All RTS games have shit pathfinding its a natural part of the genre.

probably gonna delist that one.
there are support links on that things page that links to 404s even though it was updated in 2022.
is there any news on the price? if the price is similar to old game + dlcs then I wouldnt mind. supporting a 64bit release is much easier.
hopefully the dreaded soundbug is fixed. I have to jump through so many hoops to avoid that bug. such as setting windows compatibility to win7 or setting max fps to 58 in nvidia control panel.

recently replayed DoW Dark Crusade and Soulstorm campaigns after not touching the games for 10 years

had a fucking aneurysm just trying to move my units across the map

Not sure how I didn't have a problem with this back when I was a teenager. The game could really use a few quality of life improvements but it doesn't seem like they're really adding much with this rerelease.

Starcraft 2 had phenomenal pathing

Nothing on the price yet, I don't think they're quite finished with it or they would have released it, or had a release date at least. I think Gee Dubs must have pressured them to announce alongside the current sale.

It does so by having atrocious gameplay

it barely looks any different
does it include all the dlc?

DOW2 has fuckin waaaaaay better pathing than DoW1.

i wouldn't know, i uninstalled that trash the second i learnt it wasn't a sequel to 1

Im not gay so I never played DoW2.

Does this include all of the DLC?
Are there any Vostroyan/Steel Legion mods?

It does so by having almost no units to path with

Almost doesn't look remastered at all but I'm willing to do another Dank Crusade campaign soon I don't think I ever got around to playing necrons

That's because DoW2 is shit.

It has the best rts gameplay wtf are you talking about

I think part of the reason they are "remastering" these games is that they removed lan play and directIP connect from steam and gog releases and made the multiplayer rely on steam and gog's servers, without crossplay.
this pissed people off so much that I know the gog versions sold next to nothing.
they are trying to see if they change the name and release it again, maybe this time it will sell.
huh? restore lan and direct ip to older version? put effort? whats that? never heard of it

WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH THE 2004 GAME LOOKS LIKE A 2004 GAME AND NOT AN UGLY REDUNDANT UNREAL ENGINE DIFFERENT GAME WAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!! BROS I REALLY LOVE WATCHING WARHAMMER LORE VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE AND I WNATED TO PLAY THIS BUT NOW I CAN'T!!!!!!

That must be why SC2 was instantly followed by a sequel, oh, wait, SC is dead because its such a horrifically shit game made for tiny penis asians, which explains why you like it at least.

if they fix the pathing (or at least make it so that modding can fix the pathing) then it's perfect.

That would unironically take less effort than doing the graphical changes that it's mystifying why they wouldn't just revert lan and direct ip.

Why did they remove LAN and direct IP? That's removing great features

Those character models, talk about a blast from the past. I remember playing 4th edition, when the game let you customize damn near anything about your units...

BUT NOW I CAN'T!!!!!!

Good, I was just going to spam them with dreadnoughts by orbital relay anyway.

Obvious AI upscaling is obvious. Lazy cash grab.

What's wrong with it? Literally looks like they just updated textures.

Needs 8GB if Ram

Dropped.

people can use lan and direct ip with openvpn to play with each other online. this is a prevalent issue with 2000s games. 2000s are also abandonware so no one cares. the fact that I have to play a laggy online game when I wanna play with my bros means I aint buying this game. I live in a shithole with horrible metered internet. just let me play lan.

waaaah muh pathfinding

squads shouldn’t march in formation!

vehicles shouldn’t have turning speed!

everything should flow around like sc2 zerglings so I can a-move deathball without having to think about positioning or tactics!!!

You are a poser and you don’t like RTS games.

but what about mods!

That’s exactly what’s wrong with it, anon. They slapped a few AI upscaled textures on it, called it “remastered,” and expect people to cough up cash like it’s a whole new game. No new content, no QoL fixes, no modding support upgrades, not even proper balance tweaks. It’s literally the same skeleton with a fresh coat of beige paint. Might as well be playing the original with a texture mod pack.

reverting a change due to fan backlash is something small time devs do.
big time pubishers would be laughed at and ridiculed at every upper class party they attend.

Haha, surely they NERFED Fleet of Foot this time!

You are wrong about everything
I'm not asian. The game isn't getting a sequel because Blizzard is as trash company bought out by bigger trash companies after SC2 came out. I like the game because the game is good. It's a pretty standard RTS.

source on the AI upscaling?

youtube.com/watch?v=gqinPt-vN54
METAL BAWKSES

They could have at least gave it DOW 2 graphics.This just looks like a high res mod.

youtube shitting on it

proof?

That's the problem mate, this would be basically a free update if it was any other company

All of this, and they already said owners of the original won't get it for free. In the same week that all three original STALKER games got free remastered versions for existing owners

nooooo you can't point out flaws from the original game

just consssssssssume and buy the same thing with lazy AI upscaled textures

Why do you shill? You're literally doing it for free.

People have been begging for fixed pathfinding since the original fucking release of DoW what are you on about nigga.

Depending on the price, the x64 stuff could be worth the price of admission. And maybe if you have one game that can play all the campaigns or turn them on/off as you want.

I'm cautious, but I'm not dismissive of it entirely yet. All depends on how it actually comes out.

Armies having formations and turning speeds is not a flaw, it’s a feature. You are a tourist and you don’t play RTS games

oppo drops a building prefab in front if your squad

the squad seizes to function

Besides, check out BftME games if you want to see some real formation.

Yes and when they got “good pathfinding” in SC2 the game turned into boring dogshit where players mass up a deathball and 1a it across the map. units should have intricacies to control because it makes the game more immersive and allows for more skill expression

From the same Discord post that they said it won't be free for existing owners, they said it would be "priced competitively" implying it will be in the $40-$60 range. These retards went full Jew.

It's not tho, the engine can't take having a thousand models on screen even with x64. The more larger scale the mods are, the more basic things like pathfinding matter. It's building on a foundation of sand.

If you want your units to actually go where you click them to go at that means you're a Gook APM soulless bugman

anon.

I have more hours in DOW1 than you. You're a shill for a obvious cash grab.

I don't see where it says they're using AI upscaled textures

>That'll be $40 pls

Where did you get this price? I don't see the pricetag on the steam page.

We don't know the price, all we know is that it's not a free update and it's gonna be "Competitive"

Why not have them teleport to the destination, isn’t having to run there bad pathfinding? Why not just give infinite resources as well so I can make whatever buildings and units I want? Having to build up an economy is just sooooo clunky.

If you want everything to be effortless and for there to be no barriers to anything, why even play video games? I suppose given that you’re on Anon Babble, you probably don’t

you can mod lan back into the original dow1 steam release right now

They just made it 64bit and upscaled the taxtures and called it a day. Still looks the same, and they didn't even bother removing the draw distance fog. There are mods that already do that like Titanium Wars.

It's supposed to be shit!

ESL shut the fuck up.

"Competitive"

what the hell does that even mean

They want to price it the same as other modern RTS releases and remasters, aka $40.

maybe so but dow units flatly would not function in large groups or with 1 big vehicle present. It was a buggy mess.

Corporate speak for 'average price'. Hence most anons here going for 40 to 60. I might consider it for 30 at most, 40 is pushing it.

Competitive as in Competitive pricing, basically they'll gonna look at other remasters and price what they think get them the most money

I accept your concession

I accept your confession.

i'm being retarded on purpose

Pathfinding was a huge complaint even back then, expecting $40+ remaster to do something to fix it is not unreasonable. Shill.

They made it woke ... Dawn of War has fallen

it feels like they had plans for space marine 1. and then said eh lets do dow too. and announced dow shortly after this decision was made. so they hadnt had the time to actually implement the changes they wanted to make and had to make a trailer with minimal changes done.

large groups

this is fine

with 1 big vehicle present

this is not, however. Usually I just spam Landspeeders, Jump them across the infantry blobs (they avoid ground infantry despite floating in the air if moved normally, kek)

remind me why does OP have a hateboner for the game?

They aren't admitting to it, but looking at the trailer it was very obvious in spots. The writing on various buildings and vehicles in particular is what I noticed the most, it looks fucked. The increased resolution of the "WAAAAGH" written on the side of Ork buildings was pretty clearly not worked on by a person.

What, you want Mario to jump when you press A? Why even play video games?

hateboner for the game

you are implying he hates ONLY this DoW Definite.

Screenshots?

It's not sporting next gen graphics, which doesn't really work for RTS games anyway since computers actually have to be able to render them all.

resorts to ESL naming

Get fucked shill.

They reduced the fog.. not sure if soul or soulless

He's clearly sucking DoW3's cock if he wants to get to 4

Felt pretty soulless to me in the trailer. The lighting and draw distance in general make the new version look brighter and a lot less like a wartorn hellscape.

What are your thoughts, Anon Babble?

It was over for relic when they released a game I bought on a sale in 2020 and never played.

But I also dislike the "hey millennials in your 30s remember GAME from 20 years ago" trend that refuses to fucking die, since it allows developers to be lazy fucks.

There never going to make any other company make Dawn of War.
Dawn of War is Relic's baby, the Blood Ravens are basically their chapter.
So they'll just keep having Relic pump out remastered, or anniversary editions of the games until James Workshop gets them to shit out another Dawn of War with 4.
There's no risk of tainting the Dawn of War brand, James Workshop approved the release state of Darktide of all things. 40K fans will eat anything up and Dawn of War 4 could get shit out with 1 campaign, only 2 MP factions and 40kiddies would still eat that shit up in the preorders before only realizing the issues at launch.
It's the 40k standard

Definitive edition

isnt this just a paid mod pack now? I really hope the old mods work and we get better tools this time around to adresss the memoery conserns because some huge fuck mods slow the game to a crawl

DoW 2 isn't a MOBA game you retard

shows how little you even know about the bullshit you're spewing

They*re

inb4 it somehow requires an SSD and 100gb's install size

If Commandos came out today, kids on here would call it a MOBA. Just how it is.

ERM ACKSHULLY

i played dota when it was mod for wc3 before people started calling them mobas, i dont care what you think, dow 2 is shit and in my personal opinion, the best way to describe the shit gameplay would be to say it plays like a moba, not an rts

go shill somewhere else

The weird thing is that in the story the necrons worship/are enslaved by the C'tan, but in nulore (post 2011) the 'crons are their own guys and they broke the c'tan and use them to power their weapons.

i played dota

yeah it shows

you literally control a squad of units
it's not a moba

The retards on youtube and reddit who shit on it have no idea what they're talking about. 64 bit upgrade is massive and they're going to offer mod support right off the bat. Mod authors could easily port their existinh mods. The base game is perfect and the 64 bit support is the only meaningful thing that a remaster could have offered.

inb4 pathfinder and AI improvements

Those would entail an engine overhaul and would befit a remake rather than a remaster.

irrelevant. it's a moba and that's the end of it.

40K fans will eat anything up and Dawn of War 4 could get shit out with 1 campaign, only 2 MP factions and 40kiddies would still eat that shit up in the preorders before only realizing the issues at launch.

This just isn't true because DoW3 had more than this and it flopped so badly that all DLC was cancelled and Relic was basically dead as a company afterwards. Multiple rounds of discounts and even giving the game out FOR FREE did not save it.

You do not know what you are talking about.

its a moba because i said so

go be a retard somewhere else

DoW2 hater literally doesn't know what a Moba is

Pottery

the unit model has transparent pixels between different parts, it's not a moba!

rts developers have been making such shitty games that are so much worse than 2 decade old genre defining games. and rts players have been mind broken to buy them as they have no other alternatives.
now that one of those genre defining games is coming out and is gonna raise people's standards again, they are all shitting their pants and are campaigning to snuff out any excitement or good press for it.

hurr let me oversimplify shit because i dont really know what i'm talking about

unironically kill yourself and make the world a better place

multiplayer

online

battle

arena

dow2 is none of these

im not buying DoW:DE, im not buying DoW 4

Yea you should kys for creating retarded narratives

Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides

nope

You are the idiot for speaking about "flaws" despite them being actual gameplay feature.
No, you can't have tanks that immediately rotates 180 degrees here, boy. Guess what happens when you panic and spam click move your vehicles in DoW?

Holy shit is COH a moba? I never knew I was playing a moba.

why is planetary annihilation so much crap? when total annihilation already figured out the formula for them?

kek

cool, no one asked

Okay. Who are you again?

Because Planetary annihilation is scam, retard. Did you see their recent scam industrial annihilation? The dev company is a fucking fraud and anyone who buys anything from them have no one to blame but themselves.

I'm a good representation of the potential customer base for these 2 titles.

only interested in the game finally using more than 4 GBs of RAM so we aren't forced to piss out of a straw anymore with mods

competitive price point whatever the fuck that means in today's funny money

Inb4 $80 release

Can you provide any references for this claim?

I will forever hate them for setting the precedent for not supporting linux support. in one of their blog posts they said that linux users make 99% of bug reports but only make up 1% of players. and every retarded game dev blog quoted that moronic arguement.

two squads in the same general area

get stuck and can't move forward

squad refuses to capture req point because one member is in the wrong spot

Post your hours of DOW1 shill. There are loads of interactions were the pathfinding goes full retard; and mods make it 20x worse.

It all comes down to whether they price it sensibly or go full kike and charge £50

I'm wagering no more than 50 to match Oblivion Remastered.

a small hotfix that adds better widescreen support and 64bit

priced sensibly

How does $0 sound?

This is 1% of the effort that went into Oblivion Remastered.

and no one gives a fuck about dow mods

I just wish it had that thing where it shows you exactly where each guy is moving to in a unit and you can arrange them. I don't even know if it's more competitive or whatever, I just think it's neat.

They still have gaming magazines?

that's 40 dollars too expensive. I'm sure the shills in this thread would disagree.

I understand that, you should understand that suits don't think like normal people.

yes I like all of my units getting stuck in a bottleneck because they can't move due to terrible pathing

also 2fps because 1000 units on screen on a 20 year old engine is a great idea

x64 ain't gonna fix that chief.

I just wish it had that thing where it shows you exactly where each guy is moving to in a unit and you can arrange them

Empire Earth 2 had good unit formation variety, pathing and directionality controls, honestly wish that would have been employed in DoW.

Considering I'd have more fun with DoW just being able to play mods with 64bit than I would with most full blown AAA titles these days I'd be fine with it being £10-20

13% of the population commit 50% of the crime argument

lmao and they could get away with it because RTS players are retards.

Does it include all the expansions? I only liked the baby's first 4X campaigns of Soulstorm and that other one

99% of people aren't going to rebuy a game just so they can wait 6 months to see a mod they might want to try comes up

RTS Players are retards? Wait till you meet 40k fans lmao.

mandatory gay tracing for a game that should be about the bigger battles without the constant chugging

UE5 can barely have a hundred units on the screen without throwing a kidney stone. You might still have to turn down the persistent scarring and corpses on the games that go past the 3 hour mark just to maintain a steady frame rate.

The game is basically the same underneath so all the existing mods work on arrival, they just won't crash every five minutes from running out of memory.

I think DoW 1 is for herbivore players who just want to turtle in a base making an indestructible army that then marches across the map and handily beats the AI with little to no actual engagement or struggle in the game. The kind of thing you'd play when high as fuck because there's no effort or thinking involved.

Am I wrong about this? I've never played DoW 1 it's just how it looks from seeing videos of it.

i never bothered with mods in the first place, so why would i buy this?

no one's forcing you to buy it m8

before that linux was more common in AAA.
borderlands and saints row are 2 examples I remember from AAA linux support.
nowadays there is 0 AAA support and every "how to become an indie dev" guide out there quotes this retarded post by planetary devs as for why linux should be avoided.
people say valve killed linux support but it was actually these retards.
also kek imagine being the debug guy working for planetary scam and getting lots of linux bug reports cause rts players are posers who use linux to sound smart

There's basically no fortifications so no not really. That describes SupCom more than anything.

I think DoW 1 is for herbivore players who just want to turtle in a base making an indestructible army that then marches across the map and handily beats the AI with little to no actual engagement or struggle in the game.

You just described most of RTS players.

6 months is pretty fast compared to 6 years for the average sloppa to floppa out the gate these days. Having the nids mod would be enough to get the ball rolling.

doesn't mean this isn't a cash grab.

I agreed with you on the shitty pathfinding here, numbskull (DoW III actually fixed this)
My main point is that, the capped rotational speed is an intentional part of the gameplay.

A single dev killed Linux

Damn

what is Meepo

What is Lone Druid

What is Nature's Prophet

It's why I think RTS died out

The tyranid mod breaks the engine, no amount of extra memory is gonna to save you from the 2FPS.

you're right, I have no idea
are those dota characters?

DoW is basically one of the standouts in that to get resources you're basically forced to go out of your base and capture points rather than just sitting in your castle harvesting wood or whatever.

I think DoW 1 is for herbivore players who just want to turtle in a base making an indestructible army

You have never had to defend your Generators against Sisters of Battle with Scarabs and Wraiths in the early game.

I've never played DoW 1

Yeah, it shows.

take inspiration from Generals by having the vehicles run over infantry that gets in their way

pic relate effectively becomes an improvised killdozer overnight

I didn't once argue about the rotational speed of tanks faggot. The infantry pathing is a huge problem, hence why i'm saying this is just a cash grab.

The only reason shills seem to suggest buying this is because old mods will work from day 1.

But old mods already work, and no one played them anyway.

No one is going to buy this. It's DOA.

We have never used mods to play our games with

that's not how 99% of people play it.
He's not wrong tho. Most people just camp the first three req points and turtle. The VAST majority of the custom maps released for the game are just turtle maps with shit loads of extra req points right next to your stronghold.

But old mods already work,

They don't

no one played them anyway.

Because they don't work

you argued against turning speed, dumbass. Guess what has turning speed.
Actually, just shut your gob. You clearly have no idea what you were even trying to argue.

Your mod plays at 2fps. It's unplayable shiet.
It still won't work, cus the mods people want will still make the engine shit itself even with x64.

You're arguing with several anons but I understand why a dumb nigger such as yourself couldn't comprehend that.

Your observation does not constitute facts.

40K fans will eat anything up and Dawn of War 4 could get shit out with 1 campaign, only 2 MP factions and 40kiddies would still eat that shit up in the preorders before only realizing the issues at launch.

Yeah that's why the series hasn't been on ice since their last stab at it a decade ago you fucking moron. Everything after Dark Crusade was just Relic walking backwards until they fell off a cliff. Twice they attempted to copy LoL and the whole series died for it.

If you don't have anything to say, then shut up and let people who actually play the game discuss.

Yes, lets continue to discuss how this remaster is an obvious shit cash grab.

how much are they selling it?

Why do people who are clearly zoomers and were probably ten when DoW 3 came out insist on talking about this series like they know anything about it? Doing exactly what you just said was what killed the franchise because nobody bought DoW 3 for exactly that reason

Well considering it's basically just a patch. 10 bucks is pushing it lmao

How many shovel ware 40k games are there? Alot.

People shitting on the DE are just zoomers who think that the graphics aren't shiny enough for them to play. What a bunch of fucking retards.

Req?

Pajeet shills pls go

Flash Gitz > Tankbustas > Mega Armored Nobs

Most of them flop and nobody buys them which is why you never heard about them ever again. Only a small handful of stand out 40k games ever gain large audiences

Dawn of War is dead.
No matter where they go forward with this franchise, people will complain, one way or the other.
Or you could just ignore whatever people say and enjoy the damn game.

talking points

Do they pay you for playing both sides now?

Already did, why shill lol?

I love DoW2, the co-op campaign was its main appeal. My friend and I would play through it countless times.
Then, when DoW3 had no co-op, I could not care less about it.

He's posting a page from chatGPT. I swear the next generation is going to end up being dumb af since they don't even want to read or use their own thoughts.

he used chat gpt to generate oppositional arguments so he can counter them

he's running damage control for this $50 hotfix

What modern controls can you tack onto an rts other than basing hotkeys around qwer

this lol

So what they are already saying they won't bother with any balance patches?

shills never reply when they’re called out

Why do they do this for free? On a mongolian basket weaving forum of all places.

he's not generating complaints to post Anon Babble and shit on the newest releases

too green

Does GW pay indian shill farms to defend their games? Everyone even in tg hates GW for being greedy dumbasses

They hate on GW on Anon Babble for the plastic price gouging. Nothing to do with video games there.

tg

blames GW for being greedy

paypigs who shell out thousands of bucks on plastic toys complaining about a $30 (at max) videogame

Now this is ironic.

Oblivion Remastered.

But I don't want this.

jeet

Very enlightening, saar. Do you want to contribute anything else to this discussion?

Yea but I'm not going to talk to your brownoid ass.

Oblivion Remastered

effort

Hah

I don't believe you.

DoW2 was better and I'm sick of secondary retards pretending DoW1 was anything but a turtle deathblob simulator. The voice lines and mood were great in DoW1 but 2 was better in every way except for unit count, which could be easily fixed in 2025. Actually you know what, 40k fucking sucks and Battletech is better. This isn't fucking bait, I genuinely believe this and deserve replies for doing so.

64 bit

looks the same

If they do nothing else but fix the pathfinding and unit cohesion and I'll but it day 1

People are into 40k for the grit and settings, not the gameplay, lad. Also kill all Tau goon spammer.

fix the pathfinding and unit cohesion

you know, I notice that both of these things get progressively worse as the performance degrades during gameplay, AI behavior as well. So, 64bit MIGHT fix them all?

The grit gets old once you get out of high school dumbass underageB&. DUHH THE EMPERORS WARRIORS ARE SO STOIC AND HAVE NO FEELINGS AND THEY LIVE TO FULFILL THEIR DUTY AND THEY HATE THE HERETICS WHO QUESTION THEIR BELIEFS propaganda chugging zoomer retard

Even the nu-crons still have the lights in their eyes in official art.

Are you sure about that?

noooo you can't enjoy things

you are either a woman (my condolences) or an actual edgy rebellious underage.

Battletech sucks

???

lol yeah pretty easy to path 2 units through a room the size of the closet your dad is in

yeah. It's not very consistent after 9th edition.

Autoscout?

Based. Better tabletop game, better video games, better plastic models for a fraction of the price and you don't even have to glue them together.

Zoomers want AIslop, this one is just a remastered version without it

You can't enjoy lame-ass fantasy settings (no science it's all magic bullshit) because it's just propaganda to make better soldiers now. All parody and subtlety is gone, the setting takes itself too serious. It's only given mainstream appeal because it's meant to indoctrinate kids into being good thoughtless soldiers just like DA SPACE MAREENS, so when the draft order for WW3 goes out the zoomer retards will gobble it up and shout retarded proverbs to try and sound cool while they serve their jewish masters
Filtered retard

Making games like that are lost esoteric knowledge. Even Bethesda can't make new skyrim/oblivion.
Best you can get is remake/remaster of these old games.

lmao you ridiculous tranny why are you so mad about us enjoying an update to a game we like?

F-Filtered!

Lol cope battletech peaked with MW2-3 and mechcommander

40k fucking sucks and Battletech is better

Only if we're talking tabletop but being better than 40k is a very low bar

All parody and subtlety is gone, the setting takes itself too serious. It's only given mainstream appeal because it's meant to indoctrinate kids into being good thoughtless soldiers just like DA SPACE MAREENS, so when the draft order for WW3 goes out the zoomer retards will gobble it up and shout retarded proverbs to try and sound cool while they serve their jewish masters

What the fuck am I reading

battletech

it's mechs... and they shoot each other... that's it

wowee what a grand and intriguing universe. mechfags are such boring faggots

it's not an update, it's a new game

I find it less likely that swarms of models are causing the performance issues which is causing the pathfinding problems and more likely that having 40 models on screen trying to climb over each other (particularly tanks which have bad unit collision spheres on their own) is causing both the lag AND the poor pathfinding

Will they remove the unit cap and add more factions?

Did ChatGPT tell you to say that?

I'm not talking to you troon, I'm laughing at you being mad
u mad lol

Well, it's really just the same game. But they'll delist the originals, charge $40, not give it to existing owners for free, and it'll be a significant downgrade with overwhelmingly negative Steam reviews.

warhammer

it's power armor... and they shoot the spiky power armor... that's it

Don't forget Trump is the god-emperor now. You faggots are responsible for that. They aren't calling him Kerensky, they aren't calling him Aragorn or whatever fantasy bullshit. They're using 40k terms. It's mainstream now, and if you like 40k you might as well be a Star-Wars cocksucker in the 70s pretending to be DA REBELS FIGHTING DA BIG BAD EMPIRE

lmao seething tranny projects his life onto dawn of war remastered

you're retarded and you should kill yourself

Should have really added followed AoE's example and add nids or something. Curious if they're gonna fuck with Necrons since they retconned Pariahs.

You're retarded and will get drafted and killed by Chinamen FOR DA EMPRA lmao

Will they remove the unit cap

any good reasons for the base game to do that? why don't SC1/2 have infinite unit cap?

add more factions?

the trailer explicitly says 9 armies:
- SM
- Spiky SM
- Guards
- SoB
- Orks
- Tau
- Elves
- Edgy Elves
- Necrons
Missing Tyranids, so, that's probably a "no"

Pariahs.

Retconning pariahs was a fucking mistake. Fuck GW.

hes resorted to screaming about transwomen

shartyteens lost

what the fuck are you talking about you retarded tranny

???????????????????????
the more i read your posts, the less sense they make
video games?

lmao actually

40k fan calling other people tranny

FEMALE CUSTODES LOL
AND YOU GOBBLE IT UP

everyone can smell your rotting axe wound across the internet, ropeweight

daily reminder that relic only returned to 40k because company of heroes 3 bombed
these niggers hated working for warhammer even though it put them on the map

I'd hate working on Warhammer too if I had to deal with the 40k fanbase

Remember when the CEO said if we boycott DoW3 there will not be DoW4 or any other DoW content in the future?

i still never played DoW3. I have probably several hundred hours in DoW1 and almost 800 in 2 but I haven't played either in many years now.

I loved DoW2 retribution, spent quite a lot of time playing that game.

to be fair, dealing with GW sucks

800 hours in DoW2roon

lmao

shut the fuck up cuck. DoW2 is good you just suck.

The more you reply, the more (you)s I get, 40k is for Star-Wars faggots who are trying to be edgy but it's still a fucking dogshit franchise and universe. Space Marines are gay, all the other races are boring and lame. It's a fucking awful fictional setting that was only good when I liked it between the dates of 02/15/2007 and 7/18/2012. Pretty much once 5th edition came out the game went to fucking dogshit. I shouldn't have to buy the same rulebooks 20 fucking times in 10 years. Holy fuck the game and the setting are so bad, but the setting is all about religious fanaticism so directionless retards just stick with it and don't drop it once it's obvious the company is milking your fucking wallets for profit.

No, no it wasn't. You liking a horrible sequel really does explain you raging in this thread though. Eat shit!

40k isn't even in the top 3 British sci-fi settings.

Pariahs don't make sense for nu-necrons as GW wants to portray nu-necrons as victims of biotransference and they are le heckin morally against committing similar atrocities.

Nah only one eating shit and taking it a in the ass here is you.

Based

lol stay mad forever DoW2roon sucked ass and killed the franchise

oh fuck off

Why? What's wrong with it?

#710446442
2 killed the franchise? so you're telling me you live in a fever dream world where 3 doesn't exist?
fuck off schizo fuck

Women space marines
Trans guardsman
40k is for EVERYONE and if you don't agree you're A BIGOT

and there wasnt till he left the company a decade later

they are le heckin morally against committing similar atrocities.

Why would the Necron care about any other race? They'd 100% do biotransference to other races to make slaves if they could. Pariahs being blanks further emphasized how anti-warp the Necron are. Really, I just liked how cool they sounded and the thought of people getting turned into Necron is really cool.

Women space marines

Trans guardsman

Source? Didn't notice any in the trailer but they did keep the SoB gigantic tits

Pariahs don't make sense for nu-necrons

How so? Aren't Pariahs the results of Necron's studying reverse-biotransference? NuCrons are still looking for enough bodies to revert back to being fleshbags

Necrons are canonically trans, lmao tranny lover
They won't tell you until the game releases and they add it in a day 1 patch

lol you fucking moron

everyone buys DoW2roon because DoW was good, but finds out it's horrible and that nurelic can't make a game anymore

corporate sees sales figures and says "do DoW2roon again but even worse people loved it!!!"

they make DoW3tard which not a single person even plays

wowwwwwwwww real complicated 800 hour DoW2ranny

40k is for EVERYONE

every can play the tabletop game if they have models and follow the rules, yeah.

There has not been single game since then. Like literally the company might as well been dead for the last 8 years,

Stfu tranny obsessed polnigger. You and your ilk dont even play games

Yeah but the rules used to be Space marines could only be men. So female space marines break the rules, but GW forces you to let them in because it boosts their bottom line and profit margins. Literally the most cucked franchise in existence

poltards crying about transfolk AGAIN

Why does every thread devolve into this?

See

I don't but I'll shitpost in 40shit threads because it's garaunteed (you)s and DoW1 is dogshit anyways lol

cope, ropeweight we play Dawn of War

While maybe true one shouldn't accept a situation where potential sequels are held hostage by sub-par games like that.

I liked DoW2 because of the co-op campaign, I thought that was its best bit.
I didn't buy 3 because they got rid of it.

this game always felt like a beta for CoH1

I mean, female SM is seemingly easy bait as usual.

WH40k

Right winger Elon Musk Trump cocksucker slop

800 hours in DoW2ranny

pretending he played it with someone else

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

she's doing it for the yous

Grim

she

There are a lot of brown people in this thread.

Post doesn't give me a (you) but still referencing my post

Don't care, +1 closer to bump limit with no discussion about the shitty game

Wouldn't call you guys people

They would be hypocrites then since they hate the ctans to their core for what they did and then proceed to do it to other races. The new lore also adds that key Necron figures maintaining their personalities so they wouldn't stoop so low. Even szeras does experimentation to unravel the mysteries of life. Not to make more machine slaves.

What? No?

What should we talk about? We're all going to play it, you are going to seethe forever because you can't ever be a woman.

This include sea people as well

Wouldn't call you guys people

Don't care

goes out of their way to cry about it

This thread is just bunch of brown (you) farmers.

Based sea peoples enjoyer

OMG my favorite character is BALDANIUS PIOUS

He's so LOYAL TO DA EMPRAH and STOIC and he has NO FEELINGS for DA ENEMY RACES

He doesn't need no woman cus he is GENETICALLY MODIFIED

He has BIG POWER ARMAH and a BOLT GUN that kills any bad guy in 1 HIT

This guy is so cool I wish I was like him IRL

40kcucks, everyone

Yep, you are.

female space marines

huh?

wow that guy sounds like me irl

The absolute state of 40K fags

+1 post no game discussion

lol

I suppose it will eventually look better when modders get their claws on it. I am more interested in knowing what the price will be and how many gigabytes they will add.

Looks like another normal day to me. Splintered factions throwing shit and bricks at each other.

in his discord they refer to men as "women" but they aren't really women. Hope that clears it up for you

god damn, he's just like me irl

40k fans are either this guy or

oh wow an eldritch space horror/hostile alien

i really shouldn't stick my penis in there

however

Is it just gonna be the original or are the expansions included?

Just original, expansions are paid DLC

this troon is lying, it's all the expansions

its called definitive edition, not remastered
i just hope its a little more than an upscale and 64-bit though

This faggot is lying, the expansions are all DLC that cost $20 each

all content is in the one game now

the trailer tells you

im buying it day 1

BUT ITS EXACTLY THE SAME?!???!?

good. thank fucking god.
better camera(worth the price alone)
64bit(worth the price alone)
better textures and resolution scaling(worth the price alone)
if you complain about this remaster you never liked dawn of war in the first place and your opinion is worthless.

DoW1 sucked ass and they're adding female space marines. If you like DoW1 you're a faggot and your opinion is worth nothing.

wasting

its not a waste of you have fun
which i do
faggot

and they're adding female space marines

can you prove that?

you will never be a woman

they're adding female space marines.

where?

Citation needed

Most of this thread is essentially dead internet theory at work.

Should I get Space Marine before it's being replaced by the remaster?

haven't played Space Marine

worried that the remaster might mess it up

this thread

website*
i have noticed it alot recently
alot more "npc" like behavior.

Original

Graphics on low

Remastered

Graphics on high
But that's probably my nostalgia speaking, I haven't played DoW1 in at least a decade. Maybe I will rectify that. I hope those disks are still good.

Lol this dogshit remaster will 100% feature women space marines and trans guardsman. There'll probably be one of those disclaimers at the beginning like MGS2 where the jews have to outright say to you "OY VEY, THIS IS FICTION GOYIM. DON'T LET IT GET YOU TOO RILED UP, YOU'LL NEVAH STOP US!!" In order to protect themselves lol

Wait wtf, they removed LAN? So now neither WC3, DoW, or AoE2 has LAN? What the fuck is the point of the RTS genre?

this is the second remaster
good luck finding the version from before anniversary edition

64 bit update is a huge improvement, not just for modding

This release ends compatibility with all current mods, and every mod requires to change graphical style for every asset before otherwise being changed to fit this version.

This won't be playable for years.

single player campaign. and thats why empire earth is king of the genre. red alert 2 is a close second

graphical style

ITS THE SAME GRAPHICS JUST UPSACLED
RETARD
holy fuck.

They should have just made DoW3 good...

And are they really hoping everyone that made mods for DoW takes the time to port all their stuff over to this?

DoW3

good

Impossible, the entire concept was fucked from the start.

I'd be happy with what they've shown and I'd be happy with a total graphical overhaul, it all depends on how much they charge.
What I really want is a native linux version of the game

Just played the first game

Goddamn it. Guess I'll just wait for this to play the expansions.

kys

Wow now I wish it weren't remastered at all. This thread is chock full of retards who have no intention to play the game. The oldfags trying explain things to them are just pissing in the wind at this point. Miserable thread.

Space Marine 1 didn't need a remaster, the remaster also looks soulless

If you name DW I will hunt you

the biggest problems were resolution
camera zoom was way too close even at max distance
and it being 32bit made it so it ran like shit on modern systems.
also a ram issue that made the game unplayable in certain cases.
and fullscreen only(as far as i remember) and alt+tab crashing the game.
2004 was a LONG time ago.
but the aesthetics go a long way to make it age pretty well imo.

you didnt play dark crusade yet?
you are in for a treat.

Guess we gotta hope the dude that made the Grey Knights mod is still alive and willing to pay someone to port everything over since he was willing to pay people to make stuff for the mod way back when. Gotta hope someone updates Tyranid mod too

If they went full Age of Mythology and surprise dropped the Hrud out of nowhere it would be incredible

Completely agreed on all counts. Wonder how much more effort it would be to compile it for Linux as well, since they must have had to do some engine work anyway. Looked it up and I guess the engine is "Essence Engine", which was also for Company of Heroes 2, which did have a Linux native build.

I think it looks pretty good but you're entitled to your opinion, niglet

I don't get why DC gets all the praise. You just buy units for each map and then you can just bum rush the enemy base at the start of the game.

Pretty much. Sega had some fat cunt in the offices basically grilling everyone on how their decisions will snag the DOTA2/LoL crowd and no other concerns. That fuckin thing is poisoned from the roots up.

64bit

I'm sold. Fuck large address aware.

relic

paid shills

This is the second "remaster" of it that they've done. They did one for PS4/Bone already and PC players who already owned the original got it free. This looks exactly the same as that, so it's probably just them repackaging it a third time and trying to raise the price. Embarrassingly greedy shit.

right click build boyz

waypoint your base

right click build killa kans

waypoint your base

use Big Mek to interdict specialist units and tie them in melee chase

win

hes still going

Kek

remaster is a remaster without any gay shit

tech upgrades and some minor fidelity gainz for modern resolutions

has all four games

Shit's good mang
Best excuse I'm ever going to get to play it with friends again and WITNESSSS YOURR DOOOOOM

surprise dropped the Hrud

what is there to make a faction out of a single concept art?

Relic is an independent studio now and without Sega's financial backing. Presumably there's weird restrictions on how they can exploit the shit they made while under Sega's thumb. This new SM1 remaster might be them sidestepping that, since the last remaster was released under Sega.

Better modern hardware support

Literally the same 3rd edition models but higher res to the point it looks better than most mods that do the same

mod support

removal of fog so you can actually zoom out more in base game

Are you retarded? This is literally great.

which one of these modern warhammer strategy games that are on sale are actually good? so many of them are strategy games of some kind i can't tell the difference

people made strategy games out of a strategy game

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

I remembered I actually played WA as well but dropped the game because that mission where you have to guide the tanks around the map or else you ass raped was filtering me.

kill yourself

winter assault is trash.
dark crusade and soulstorm are good.

Fine retort

i know but which ones are good

winter assault trash

soulstorm good

Please be bait.

I have like 30 hours, and my friend and I enjoyed it
Why must you be so mean? The Co-Op campaign was great fun.

Please be bait.

sorry im not a ww2 stan so i dont give a fuck about imperal guard.
and chaos space marines (at least the ones in dow1) are boring.
and i hate snow/winter aesthetics in videogames.

and soulstorm is good because it actually makes factions interesting
and fighting a planetary war on multiple fronts against multiple different factions all fighting against eachother is extremely cool and fun to play.

none of them really.
mechanicus i guess but thats an xcom clone.

kill yourself. it is best news of months. 64 bit. all armies&campaigns, widescreen are all this gem need, nothing more.

Remember: Anon Babble will do whatever is required to not play a game.

stop projecting, troon

being excited for a demaster

lmao

Can't wait for content stealing merge modders to get their hands on this.

He's not wrong tho

Yes he is. I'm semi-tempted to buy the remaster just to see how much of it I remember, especially when it comes to multiplayer balance but the playstyle the dude describes is that of the lowest of low skill players

For me it is the QS banshee rush.

No, turtling is one of the worst things you can do in a game where your resource scaling is gained from taking control points. You must be active on the map and taking points.

Shut Up faggot, i will buy it again

using linux means being a poser

literally kys

10mins no rush pl0x

did they use Ai to double the amount of frames for that cinematic or something? looks weird as fuck I had to close the video

That's all it needed

it needs updated pathfinding too though

the entire demaster was made by ChatJeetPT

The entire thing appears to be AI-generated

god-emperor i hate video games

not a single word on performance improvements

yep it's shit

if you can't run a remaster of a 20 year old game you might need to update your pc

implying it won't require an SSD, 100+gb's of space, and a 4090 like every other AI hackjob remaster

its basically a hotfix to enable widescreen and 64bit, it's not going to require much horsepower

Where do you keep pulling these hyperboles from????????

So... have they fixed the vehicle pathing?

it seems to be purely visual

Will they force you to pay for a patch that allows you to play on modern systems?

That's what this is...

But why are people shitting on it?

but finds out it's horrible and that nurelic can't make a game anymore

lmao
DoW1 was just as flawed and janky as DoW2. I'd say game design was also worse with no brain terrible basebuilding and trash maps, unit movement and behavior, but that's a matter of preference mostly.
The big difference with DoW1 is that people had lower standards back when it was new, and nostalgia goggles now

because it barely looks different

Because it's literally the same game but you need to pay for it again for some reason

DoW1 is a fun single-player game but it's really shit competitively. Terrible balance.

that music is kino though

Game is literally perfect already.

Yeah it must be free for people who already own it right? I actually suspect this trailer is a pisstake from some troll because I cannot tell the difference between the two versions with each screen wipe. If this is real it has to be free to drum up hype for DoW 4, surely.