Self defence... bad

self defence... bad

You can't claim self-defense when you're trespassing on someone else's property, my melanin-rich friend.

Why did le game literally call me evil?

baby hitler question, the game.

what if people attacked and killed you but you reversed time and came back to life then killed them before they killed you.

The only characters that say that in the entire game are Undyne and Flowey.
Sans says self-defense is okay.

You lose your "self defence" card when you kill Papyrus.

What a retarded post

Really it's just Undyne, Flowey isnt saying its "bad" he's just enjoying the fact you're killing at all and mocking you for failing to prove him wrong about kill or be killed

you can litteraly kill every monster you encounter without triggering the genocide ending

you have to literally kill everything for this to happen

He was gonna take you to Asgore who would kill you

duplicitous jew the character

What did Toby mean by this?

Today I will remind them

He outright spares you after you beat him though, you can argue its still right to kill him sure but you arent killing for self defense anymore if you kill papyrus, you're motivated by something else

Today, I will also remind them.

The problem with this is it assumes that, despite any possible variables that exist, it is always morally correct to kill zero/as few people as possible. That what determines "The right thing" is completely black and white.
Maybe I think the right thing is all monster SHOULD die, they are naturally able to absorb souls and reach godhood which threatens the existence of humanity. Or that the monsters can be excused for attempted infanticide simply because you know its coming. That self-defense is, inherently, wrong even if understandable

Maybe I think the right thing is all monster SHOULD die

So it's an admission that they're justified in killing you, because it's real self defense. Laws and morality are always defined by circumstance and intent. You are immoral because, despite knowing how all of this ends, you would still rather kill. that doesn't fly in any court written by a white society, buddy.

working on my own lawyer game. I need some ideas on weird ways to kill someone. particularly during sex. I'd like to do a case where two people are having sex, and then, one dies, and the other sex partner gets charged with the murder, but somehow it was a unknown third party who pulled it off. I just am not too sure how yet. Poisoned condoms seem like they would affect both parties.

More generalized murder ideas are good too though.

this but unironically

Sans refuses to stop you personally until you obsessively murder every single other killable NPC (some of which explicitly avoiding lethal force). Even then he explains that you're in the process of fucking around and finding out. He's trying to stop you locking yourself and everyone else into a permanent bad ending. Even just love-tapping Mettaton in the end averts the ending despite you already having hit the necessary bodycount.
Game itself definitely follows the annoying trend of post-modern works putting a gun in your hand and reprimanding you for using it, but a normal run in which you just kill by default is still mostly just treated as a tragedy.

Then what about the second possible reason, that despite my knowledge they are still undeniably an entire race of people that are trying to kill a child and harvest it's organs in the name of a hostile takeover of the surface people's world, and have already done so to 6 others? A murderer doesnt get pardoned of their crimes for simply realizing after the fact they were wrong in their actions, and the same goes for an attempted murderer. You'd be hardpressed to find anyone who agrees that the right thing is to release a serial child killer and allow them to work in a daycare. Hell, the game itself agrees with me in Genocide, where accepting Chara's deal means no matter what route you take you are punished and reminded of your past "overwritten" crimes by being unable to get a truly happy ending

Encounters, for the most part, aren't actually battles. It's like two animals having an unsure meeting and sniffing eachother out. Certainly can become a battle if you make it so.

You can just refuse to let him do that though, the cage he puts you in has bars with gaps big enough for you to simply walk through, so you can just try again and eventually he'll relent if you just keep challenging him because he will not threaten your life, even though he is fully capable of doing so, because he only want to capture you and/or be your friend, he can't do either of those two things if you are dead.
He cannot stop you in any way that matters, even if you suck ass and he doesn't, even in a hypothetical where you can't save/load/reset, so killing him is not justifiable under any circumstances, you can just tell him no and he'll have no choice but to let you pass anyway.

OP was brutally raped and gaped by a Sans cosplayer from Detroit in the steaming hot summer of 2016.

putting a gun in your hand and reprimanding you for using it

the game literally tells you that nobody has to die before you even get a chance to kill someone.
this argument is more along the lines of

eula: dont say nigger

you: NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER

game: you've been banned

you: WTF WHAT ABOUT MY FREE PEACH?!?!?1??

Sans said that.

the game doesn't say it, the trailer does

they are still undeniably an entire race of people that are trying to kill a child and harvest it's organs in the name of a hostile takeover of the surface people's world, and have already done so to 6 others?

Asgore's the one that killed most of them though, and rightfully so considering humans one sidedly decided to massacre them and then seal them in a cavern for hundreds of years, plus they killed his two kids.
And that aside, they, as a matter of fact, don't actually try to kill you.
Them attacking you is how they talk and communicate with one another, and about 90% of them don't even know you're a human or what a human looks like because it's been hundreds of years since they've been stuck there.
The only ones actually out to kill you are Asgore (he doesn't even want to and wants to die), Undyne, Mettaton and the people he paid to attack you and he lied to most of these guys too like when Muffet says he told her that humans like to stomp on spiders and enjoy torturing them.

All fair and good, except the game comes packaged with a "Say 'NIGGER'" button, and displays it prominently during each encounter. Sure the game told you you don't HAVE to be racist, but you are not just given the option to do so anyway, the option to do so is indirectly advertised as the game's big gimmick.
Do you seriously expect people to not press it because it's amoral? Because the game seems to imply that pressing the button to see what happens (or even just watching someone do it) is some moral failing on your end, and not just basic human psychology at work. If you present a point of interaction, the monkey will want to interact with it.
Like with any other game of this ilk it inevitably turns into the game telling you to stop playing it to its full extent, which is a bit silly.

But he was gonna le spare you!! Even if you wouldn't know otherwise

I'm killing the faggot skeleton and any other faggot character which means I'm genociding up in this bitch

the game only gives you shit if you kill papyrus (who, under no circumstance, can actually result in a game over. and also is the brother of the guy judging you) or go out of your way to kill more than you'd encounter normally.
"just seeing what happens if you use the fight button" would be you killing a frog in some ruins. not either of these.

this thread again

why do you keep doing this?

Asgore's the one that killed most of them though, and rightfully so considering humans one sidedly decided to massacre them and then seal them in a cavern for hundreds of years, plus they killed his two kids.

That doesnt give him the right to murder children who just unknowingly wander into his domain, I cant go out into an unrelated ghetto and air the entire place out simply because a black man killed my brother

Them attacking you is how they talk and communicate with one another

Not this fucking argument, they 100% are trying to kill you. Bullet pattern greeting is a bullshit theory when you remember that
1) Frisk doesnt return any bullets back and they continue spraying anyway
2) They are fully capable of greeting you without a single bullet
3) They never do this to any other monsters beyond the (ONE) mention in a book in the librarby, and its about CARDS not in person interactions
4) Even if that's just how it works, Frisk can still die from them and that therefore makes them a natural threat to humanity if a fucking "Hi how do you do?" can turn you into a bullet sponge
5) In the event you fail to run away they still keep firing at you despite you clearly not wanting to be there
6) Toriel launches fire magic directly at Flowey, meaning they KNOW their bullets are dangerous to other monsters, making it a really stupid way to greet people
7) Toriel has to scowl at a Froggit to get it to not shoot Frisk, and it looks away as if it knows what it was doing was wrong, which it can only assume if it's intentions were to harm you not greet you, otherwise they'd just be confused
8) Papyrus is the only monster in the entire game that holds back his bullets to be non-lethal, meaning every other monster has no care for your life in their battles (save toriel who's just an idiot/too strong to hold back as much, take your pick)

Most people had spent from around $10 to $1 on this game. This guy had spent $2500, so he has to get his money worth somehow.

Is she the narrator?

Oh and about them not recognizing you as human, Im pretty sure they can see your fucking soul. There are plenty of bullets that lock directly onto it, remember the jumping frog attack? Maybe they dont start the battle knowing it but they surely recognize it the second the bullets come out

Fat Temmie Chang.

What if I just killed everything in the game on my first run because I enjoyed it, and didn't know anything about the different endings? I didn't have any power to know what was going to happen.

That doesnt give him the right to murder children

Yeah it does? It's his duty to free his people.
They're all literally dying of depression and crumbling away just forcing smiles.
They just want to see the sunlight, he doesn't give a shit about ending humanity or whatever.

Frisk doesnt return any bullets back

... so?
Not every monster acts the same.
They all love puzzles for example but Undyne fucking hates that shit. And there's tons of different monsters.

They are fully capable of greeting you without a single bullet

Doesn't mean that it's not a normal way either. You can greet people many different ways as well, can't you? Handshakes, just saying hello, giving a kiss on the cheek and all that.

Frisk can still die from them

I'd say the actual threat is the little kid that can air out an entire race by himself with just a bit of immortality and literal toy weapons against grown ass monsters.

they still keep firing at you

Yeah, because you're still in battle. You can still attack monsters even when they spare you, can't you? It goes both ways.

Toriel launches fire magic directly at Flowey

What a dumb argument. They use magic, they use it for everything. She also uses magic for cooking for example. Obviously it can also be used as a weapon.

Toriel has to scowl at a Froggit

Actually, it's because they're all afraid of Toriel because she mean mugs every monster. That's a direct contrast to Asgore, who's beloved by every monster while Toriel's just a bitch generally.

Papyrus is the only monster in the entire game that holds back his bullets to be non-lethal

Because he knows you're a human and specifically wants to capture you on top of just being nice generally.
Toriel also does her absolute best to not harm you should you become low HP and you have to intentionally dive in her attacks and get lucky to die.
Even the dogs have it specifically highlighted that they think fighting is just a game.

lets not talk about how Asgore (and most of the underground for that matter) fully intends to murder and extract the soul of a literal child.

Im pretty sure they can see your fucking soul.

Monsters also have a soul last I checked.
Hell, Mettaton shows you his fucking soul in some of his attacks.

Let's not forget that said child can kill their strongest warriors with a fucking shoe.

Let's also not talk about how Asgore is only trying to kill Frisk because he can't betray the expectations of his entire kingdom. Let's also not talk about how Asgore deliberately holds back on an attack that would be lethal if you have more than 1 hp, since he really doesn't want to kill, giving you an opportunity to get back on your feet and stop him.

Finally a good post itt

Imagine how jiggly her belly is.

Poisoned condoms seem like they would affect both parties.

Poison on only one side of it. Mucous membranes absorb poison way faster, so a guy could touch the poisoned condom to put it on and not get sick, but his partner gets the full brunt of it and dies.
Perhaps it could be friction activated somehow, so that it only kicks in when they're thrusting.

Poisoned condoms seem fine, I can only think of something like this though

let two people go at it

flood the room with CO2 or something else to knock them out but not kill while they're at it

strangle one and put fingerprints & evidence all over the other

leave and clean up

Would probably work better if the killer studied the target and they had some BDSM/hardcore fetish for example because then it'd explain strangling better.
Heard about many stories of sex plays like strangling going bad and the dude ends in jail because he went at it too hard and strangled the girl to death for example.
If you went down that road you could have the murderer sell them toys made badly on purpose like a leash/mask or whatever.

Yeah it does? It's his duty to free his people.

That doesnt mean Frisk should just roll over and let him do it, Frisk is an unreleated child to the war that sealed them away. He doesnt even have to kill them for the soul, he knows they cant leave with just a human soul so just fucking take them in and let them die naturally, or better yet wait until you have 7 live children and have them break the barrier without ripping the souls out at all. Him having his child killed doesnt mean its right to kill the children of 14 other unrelated people

You can greet people many different ways as well, can't you?

If you give a stranger a kiss on the cheek and they push you away and tell you to gtfo, you do not immediately go in for seconds if you have any common decency or care for the person.

I'd say the actual threat is the little kid that can air out an entire race by himself with just a bit of immortality and literal toy weapons against grown ass monsters.

Does not invalidate my point, even on pacifist where they cannot possibly know Frisk is that big a threat they are killing them. And again, if it's a greeting why is the default not the non-lethal bullets? They have bullets that heal, shouldnt EVERY monster use those for these greetings?

You can still attack monsters even when they spare you, can't you? It goes both ways.

So every single monster will keep firing at you until you explicitly tell them "Please stop, you're going to hurt me and I dont want to hurt you if I dont have to" and that's perfectly okay? They're allowed to IGNORE those pleas simply because you havent sucked their cocks/beat them enough to get them to ACCEPT backing off?

Because he knows you're a human and specifically wants to capture you on top of just being nice generally.

So does that mean other monsters are okay with killing each other should it happen in a greeting?

Hell, Mettaton shows you his fucking soul in some of his attacks.

That's not his actual soul, it's his robot core

Ran out of space for the last one, Mettaton is not only an actor putting on a show, he's a ghost that's possesing a robot body. If that was his actual soul, he wouldnt be taking damage because ghosts cant be directly attacked

what AI is this?

That doesnt mean Frisk should just roll over and let him do it,

Yeah, it doesn't.
That's why you can just go normal route and just die in the barrier room stuck in a limbo. Nobody's telling you to be some martyr and let your soul be taken, this isn't Yellow.

have 7 live children to break the barrier

Just having 7 humans isn't enough. What made the barrier to begin with were 7 great human magicians.
Soul powered monsters can break the barrier because by then they're literally godlike and there isn't much they can't do.

That's not his actual soul, it's his robot core

he's a ghost that's possesing a robot body. If that was his actual soul, he wouldnt be taking damage because ghosts cant be directly attacked

He's a ghost that's fused with his corporeal form.
When that happens they can be attacked and killed.
Notice how you cannot kill Napstablook but in Genocide you absolutely can kill Mad Dummy when it gets so angry it fuses with its dummy, and you can also kill Mettaton generally in the body he's very satisfied to have.

All in all I can see you're not really interested in actually discussing this and you're stuck in a mindset you have no interest in changing so I got nothing else to really say.

both sides fallacy. Just because they're bad at killing kids doesn't excuse them from the intent of murder.

civit temmie chang model

A child muslim terrorist had illegally crossed the border of your country - are you allowed to shoot him?

Just having 7 humans isn't enough.

How is it not? They have Souls, they can still use them, and they have the tech to extract DT from a soul, they cant make tech that can harness it from a willing human if they tried? If thats REALLY not enough, waiting for natural causes is still an option. Im sure if they were taken in theyd gladly allow their souls to be used in death when that time comes

He's a ghost that's fused with his corporeal form.

To be fair I forgot about that, but it's still a robotic core and not a real soul in my eyes given that its physically chained to him. I guess it can go either way, but say it is just straight up a soul: All monsters souls are white, human souls are colored, they should know the difference they've killed and gathered 6 of them already

That manga got cancelled after one volume

thx

draw cute things

the internet sexualizes you personally for it

I wonder how she feels about that

She's a tumblr oldfag, she should be used to it

She probably knows and doesn't care because she's busy with work
Or she doesn't know and probably never will even if someone dms her the stuff

All the Temmie (Species) porn shouldve numbed her to it by this point

If she knew about that particular stalker she'd probably call the cops

tumblr oldfag

Those were better days. How did society go so insane so fast? At least we're finally getting past that. Americans will look back at the social justice era with puzzlement, just like we do with the Prohibition.

it literally started with the tumblr porn ban, which caused all the freaks to leak out to the rest of the internet

it literally started with the tumblr porn ban, which caused all the freaks to leak out to the rest of the internet

Would the internet be better if tumblr never banned porn and all the freaks stayed on there?

It would probably still go downhill some because of Discord, I can see some of the freaks jumping to there and spreading further but otherwise it wouldnt be worse than things are now

fighting off a kidnapper isnt self defence, actually

you are a nigger

Daily reminder that Toby Fox used to fuck a lot of homestuck cosplayer in his era.

Only humans count as people.

That lucky bastard

that just sped up the things that were already happening
smartphones were inevitable but they are still the main cause of the internet becoming bad

the game doesn't say it

The game literally forces a tutorial on you about how you don't ever need to kill anyone

but they are still the main cause of the internet becoming bad

Oldfags would argue eternal september is the real cause

edgy retards haven't played the game and can't read but keep coming to shit up the thread anyway

Some things never change, huh

they are one in the same
all brown, teenage, shartnigger shitposters are also phoneposters

i'm a kid and monsters are telling me that killing myself is ok

Complementary reminder that he only says this if you kill Papyrus, the one monster you fight in the game that doesn't kill you.

Yellow was made by troons, anyone who expected them to know right from wrong is foolish. Bad fanfiction anyway.

Vastly inferior to Deltarune

that just sped up the things that were already happening

Well is there any way we can reverse it?

Anon, there are several trans people involved in the development of Deltarune. Your scapegoat doesn't work here.

and despite that its the least woke fangame we have, even less than the main game.
having only a single sacrificial fish to appease the ogre horde.

Things have to get worse before they can get better, creation can only flourish in the aftermath of destruction.

Played it multiple times on release, faggiest game possible mate, I kill these characters because I truly enjoy it. I despise them hence genocide route was the best. What's your point

Just don't listen to them. If you bought the game just to fight sans then fight sans. Ofc the monsters will disagree with you as it makes sense for the story. It's on the same level of morality as going on a rampage in GTA

How can people enjoy porn and still abide by social justice rules? It's all objectification and objectification is illegal.

I am an edgy retard and Undertale still gets under my skin 10 years later, please rape my face

Good talk

It's not WRITTEN by a troon though. I don't care if they were made to do menial or inconsequential labor, although this has almost certainly has contributed substantially to the huge gaps between chapters as they are notoriously unreliable and unstable.

I think you fell for a strawman or were lied to my guy.

SJWs enjoy having consensual sex.

game lets you kill characters

characters get upset when they're killed

this upsets Anon Babble

I guess if you have a weird vendetta against a group of people you can blame them for whatever problems you want, regardless of lack of evidence.

Oh no it's retarded

"Your edgy oooh you're so edgy*

No idea why you're so salty, already said I played your game and enjoyed a part of it. You're the one trying way to hard to be edgy, specially with those pics lmao

I don't have a weird vendetta against them, I'm just speaking from experience. These are mentally ill people with perverse ideas about the world. They will show themselves to be such to anyone who interacts with them.

they are naturally able to absorb souls and reach godhood which threatens the existence of humanity

Humans in Undertale can also reach godhood status you literally fuck with the timeline you dipshit
the point is that in Undertale, you are explicitly told in and out of game, MULTIPLE times, that no one has to die. The game's trailer says "The Only RPG Where Nobody Has To Die!" Toriel makes it obvious in the ruins that a key component of the game is that killing is entirely optional. There are moments in the game meant to make you second guess this, meant to cause you to wonder if the game was lying when it said no one has to die, but the player's defining characteristic is determination, and they're intended to find a way to SAVE everyone.
Undertale isn't an analysis of real world morality and alot of people are mistaken in thinking it is. Undertale is about the way we engage with videogames as an artform, if we appreciate them as fictional worlds and narratives or if we take them at face value, burn them out, and then discard them after sucking all the experiences we can out of them without thinking about what that experience means.
Undertale frames the player as a kid with an ant-farm, and asks that kid to consider what the ants, a lower lifeform, might think about what the kid does to that ant-farm. We aren't Frisk, we're the player, we know none of the ants have to die, we know we could at any moment walk away from the game/ant-farm because we aren't inside the game/ant-farm.

If you wanted a more classical philosophical debate to apply to Undertale, it wouldn't be a moral one about the validity of self defense, it would be a religious debate about why God allows bad things to happen.

These are mentally ill people with perverse ideas about the world.

sounds like pretty much everyone on this site Tbh

With each other? Have you seen what they look like?

Geno route in yellow is kino and fits the justice theme to a tee though

you literally fuck with the timeline you dipshit

I agree with your point but fucking with the timeline is limited to the Underground and is almost certainly due to Gaster's work with determination. It is not an inherent ability humans possess.

>>”””defence”””

I would say it's due to Frisk being the one with the highest amount of determination in the area. Flowey was able to fuck around with saving beforehand because he had the most determination, and he probably doesn't have much since monsters naturally don't have any so a decent amount above the amalgams but lower than a human would still work. Outside of the underground there's a whole bunch of humans with determination so saving wouldn't work.

the game doesn't incentivize killing enough, sparing people doesn't mean much when there's no reason to do the alternative. Also too much emphasis is placed on the fact that you don't have to kill anyone, which makes it less of an organic choice that reflects your character. Rather than making a choice whether or not you want to kill each monster you encounter you're more likely to decide whether or not you're going to be a pacifist or not at the start of the game. When UT prompted me to not kill anyone, I took it as a challenge, or a restriction, not a moral choice I was constantly weighing.
The game paralleling you to flowey is great though, no disagreements there. #teamchara

Even if you forget the determination & underground stuff you can still erase reality itself by just being violent enough.
Both humans and monsters have the potential to end reality and are threats as a result. The humans are just way more likely to let that shit happen considering there isn't a single bad apple on the monster side outside of... Toriel and she's still pretty nice, and Flowey was literally soulless.

It's always projection.

Defense?
No
Justice.
youtube.com/watch?v=LPCpn9jpnb8

Anon, you fucking idiot, the genocide route is not about if it's okay to kill in self-defense or not. It's about the player deliberately doing terrible actions in videogames just to "see what happens", just to exhaust all the possibilities created by the developer. Flowery outright spells this out.

The genocide route is no different from, say, playing a Hitman level and killing everybody in sight, despite there being no fucking reason to. The difference being that Undertale asks you to take its world as real and not just a sandbox for the player.

every human worships a god

This is an 80 iq belief

80 iq website

It's not
What, you need people to validate your actions? You sound homosexual