NPCs have a right to exist

A thousand aeons in niggerhell for Verso would be too merciful after this.

Refusing to give Alicia/Maelle the letter was the final betrayal.

God left her unfinished.

all but 2 dead at end game

Monoco says reincarnation only brings a part of Gestrals back, and that they aren't the same any more

nah they're gone homie, not getting let another society of painting people be made just to die again at the hands of a sad girl

We need em

Shitty no-imagination painters can't into good endings. You need a writerGOD for that.

Monoco says reincarnation only brings a part of Gestrals back, and that they aren't the same any more

Gestrals specifically have a different reincarnation system through the sacred river, made by Verso so they could fight and die in adventures but still come back, they don't need to be repainted.
For the humans, for those that didn't get nevroned and got their chroma molested, you could theoretically recover it and bring them back as they were but Alicia is too retarded, too unskilled of a painter, and too disinterested in it to bother, she'll bring back just enough background characters for her theater performances.

based
youtube.com/watch?v=lX3CpHa4sUs

Paintcucks, when will they learn?

Why should I listen to a faggot that pussy out on on the maqui when a few years later, the Fed and the spoon head just genocide them?

Why are you guys simping for a girl who can't even speak?

You know about all the "I could have saved her" memes?
You can't

Painted people don't have souls. Real people do.

I also think they'd just be copies rather than carrying on continuity from before they died, or in artist terms I guess 'tracings'.

Painted people don't have so-ACK!

I want to hold her hand and tell her everything will be fine.

But she can though and she's an adorable sunflower.

She brought back Sciel and Lune and they were just fine they continued on

I wonder if they lost most of their relevance as characters in act 3 as a hint that they weren't supposed to be the same, or if the writers just ignored them to focus on their OC and the family drama

This game made me cry

so did roboboy Simon 2 and 3 from SOMA

Exactly. Kick Alicia out of the painting - she doesn't deserve Lumiere.

She's unironically a better person actually deserving of love than Maellicia.

To be fair, no fate awaited Simon 2 other than torture for his entire life

Pussy

You don't need to say unironically, she's easily the most moral and selfless person in the game. Gusling not counted because he never learned the truth so who knows how he would have reacted.

you are a younger sibling, eh

I stood up and clapped when we brought Noco back to life, and I did the same when Maelle brought everyone else back to life.

I love this game

No one has a "right" to exist. Existence is a privilege that must be earned every day. In the case of the NPCs, they got fucked because their creators are a dysfunctional family, akin to the Greek Olympians. Their agency to even earn the right to exist has never been in their hands. They were brought to existence to fill an escapist grief-fueled fantasy, and were deleted out of existence to delete said fantasy.

No, but this depression metaphor I've seen a dozen times.

Sciel shared information about her personal life after she got recreated, that Maelle couldn't have possibly known, so it's pretty much confirmed that it isn't just the painter making up a believable image based on their memories alone. Clearly some part of their personhood is preserved in their chroma.

and were deleted out of existence to delete said fantasy.

No they weren't. They earned the right to exist by blapping Renoir and Verso's bitch ass then chaining him to a piano to play music for Maelle like a dancing monkey. Verso lost. Maelle won.

thats why you dont have a girlfriend or any friends.
kys wierdo

never got to choose her life, was painted disfigured and mute because her mother hated her real version

caught in the middle of both her painted family feud and her paintress' family feud

is immortal and can never find release from her blighted existence

has to watch the idealized version of herself live her best life

still wishes the best for everyone and tries to be as helpful as she can

they got fucked because their creators are a dysfunctional family, akin to the Greek Olympians. Their agency to even earn the right to exist has never been in their hands

I agree with this in that it's very Greek tragedy esque. Imperfect flawed petty gods and their drama toying with the fates of mortals.

That, and if the Lumierans were created only as an outlet for Aline's grief, then why did one of them die in a drowning, and then Sciel lost her baby. That never happened to Aline. It's a unique tragic backstory for a character who has nothing to do with Aline or her family.

Yeah, it feels some inception bullshit. They'll probably bait that more in the movie or DLC.

so why did Verso think Gustave had to die again?

sees herself replaced in her brother's life by aforementioned perfect version of herself, is hurt but accepts it and hopes she can get her hopes through to her to bring a good conclusion for everyone

watches the last reason she had to live in the world, her brother, as he Turbo Pro Max DX Director's Cut betrays her trust again

That never happened to Aline. It's a unique tragic backstory for a character who has nothing to do with Aline or her family.

I sure do hope that even the most "they're fake Sims without value" idiots don't actually argue that those people don't have independent thoughts. Aline didn't handmade every one of them, she can barely maintain their existence from erasure as she is, she made them once, infused them with a starting culture, and let them loose and letting chaos form the rest. We can see in the history of Lumiere how that culture and technology changed over time post-Fracture, and it wasn't anyone giving it to them, they did it themselves.

He was afraid that she wouldnt be willing to kill Aline if she knew that it meant dooming Gustav

So? AI will theoretically be able to do the same very soon whether the lights are on or not.

Maybe they think it's like a bunch of chatGPT bots talking to one another. Kind of like Reddit. Except I would really, really like to delete Reddit.

I get a red screen when cinematics are playing in Expedition 33, any fix for that?
Also square flowers and some invisible roofs/windows.

I think the issue is Win10 doesn't have DirectX12 (and can't get it without reinstalling windows), but maybe some modder has saved the day?

pic related

dooming Gustave

dooming Lumirere more like, and was afraid Gustave would talk her out of it

Paint people can be magically be brought back to life via painter, IRL people can't; ergo IRL lives are more valuable.

it isn't... the outside world is in the 20th century not the painting world, that's just a fantasy world

Most of the Verso Ending players tend to believe the painted people are not real in any meaningful sense, although that's plain wrong. Regardless, I like the idea that painters can't control the will of their creation beyond the point of creating them. Like any artist in the real world, they make the art, and then allow it to live on its own and be interpreted on its own without their input. Death of the artist allows the painting to continue to live and breath after the artist steps away from it. That is true for the painters in this world as well.

or just the canvas in general

They don't have souls. Meanwhile, real people have souls that persist even in their paintings. They're just convincing simulations of people.

YWNBAW

But they literally can. We see multiple examples of painters painting over fake people.

It was Renoir that brought Maelle-Alicia in the world, surely they could have talked about it at some point before going for Aline.

Hey dad, you brought me to help, you don't need to fucking trick me to get me to help you, I read that letter and now I know the truth. Let's help mom and you don't have to erase everything, okay? We'll talk at dinner.

Death of the artist is a meme invented by salty fags after being told by the artist that no my painting is not about the monthly struggle of women bleeding from their vaginas. If JK Rowling says Dumbledore is gay and Hermione is a nigger, that's what they are.

Regardless, I like the idea that painters can't control the will of their creation beyond the point of creating them.

They can erase and recreate them in a different way, but not en masse and it isn't easy.

the issue is that I'm on windows10 version 1809 btw, i know that's the issue, just wondering if it there's a workaround

The entire point of the game is that it's open to interpretation though.

The man was trapped for 67 fucking years. He was tired of playing games and I would be too if my emotional and hysterical wife is not only endangering her life but the lives of our real existig children.

You mean the thing that he kept the others from finding out about and could've just as easily hidden from Gustave until it was too late? Lune probably had the best chance of figuring it out on her own out of the original expeditioners. Guillaume just had to get his DMC self-insert to take over because they ran out of money for Charlie Cox to record more lines.

if my emotional and hysterical wife is not only endangering her life but the lives of our real existig children.

Renoir did that too though, on Maelle. She had already been kicked out and he pulled her back, so he could use her against Aline, you can hear arguing against it and how it's too dangerous for her.

Reminder several of the devs are FF8 enjoyers AND Verso's voice actor his favourite game ever is FF8.
youtu.be/HFzbRTAyal8
youtu.be/KMm7kayDeTU
youtu.be/S5bRMje6V9Y

Aline is betrayed by her painted Alicia and painted Verso, and obviously cannot control their wills.
Regardless, the writer for the game tells an interviewer (who believed that Maelle's ending was the "bad ending") that he's wrong.

youtube.com/watch?v=i9rBGOMdJCk

She had already been kicked out and he pulled her back

The fuck are you talking about?

A lot of people try to paint (heh) Renoir as some flawless tragic hero who dindu nuffin wrong, but it isn't true. He has character flaws like everyone else in the story.

He needed help and was in danger of dying himself. I assume he trusted in Aline that she would be able to break the stalemate (he was right)

Aline is betrayed by her painted Alicia and painted Verso, and obviously cannot control their wills.

Because she was greatly weakened. Clea and Renoir both showed they can paint over someone's will.

Clea and Renoir both showed they can paint over someone's will.

When did they show this, and to what extent? Why does Renoir not paint over the Lumierans and fake Verso to use them against Maelle? Let me guess, he was also "greatly weakened". Convenient.

Sure but he's still the most objectively correct character.

Alicia knew this

this is why she didn't bring Gustave back because he would've been missing details

Ooooooo now I'm schizomad.
Yeah, that's good parts of European tragedies. Everyone has just a little flaw that widens cracks then people get swallowed.
I also like how Alicia really does feel like a teenager. Almost frustratingly so.

He was more right than everyone else and tried his best. Aline was the one who pushed away from him. Aline was the one who shirked her responsibilites to her family and organization. Aline was the one who made a new family instead of helping her real one. You cant put any of that on Renoir.

Or it was always the plan to have Alicia's actual brother as the mc

Clea painted over her portrait self. Renoir painted over Simon and Clea does as well.

That is true for the painters in this world as well.

It's not. There's no way Alicia fixes the painting without exerting a lot of control over the creation. You can't just bring everyone back and expect them to continue under new management as if nothing had happened. Alicia will have to become a dictator if she wants her perfect version of Lumiere that has her living with the creations.

Feels good picking the correct and morally right ending.

I don't know who Simon is, and I recall Maelle mentioning Clea painted over Aline's version of her, but I don't recall how that changed her. She still fights the group then kills herself and disappears at the end. Why does Renoir not paint over fake Verso, or the Lumierans? Why does he not change their wills against his weaker daughter?

Renoir painted over Simon

I don't think he did, Simon just got mindbroken from being stuck there

You couldn't have repainted him with a real left hand, Alicia? Did you go and dig out his arm? I doubt you could make a new one even with god powers.

Why would he paint over Verso or the Lumierans when both are against the paintress and Verso wants the same thing as Renoir.

You couldn't have repainted him with a real left hand, Alicia?

Best piece of evidence that Maelle is not just creating a perfect utopia. She recreates people with all the flaws and imperfections they had when she knew them. Like fake Verso said to her, she paints the core of their being, not just what they looked like. That's how she brings them back.

Why would he paint over Verso or the Lumierans when both are against the paintress and Verso wants the same thing as Renoir.

Because Verso and Sciel and Lune defeated him in the final act of the game which resulted in him being kicked out of the painting and Maelle staying there forever. If he was able to alter their wills to turn them against Maelle and banish her from the painting to save her, why didn't he?

youre talking about anons that wants to waifu burn victims.

Yes, especially when the NPCs are straight up better characters.

Alicia (blanca) rejoining her family in another life without pain. But still the same and not looking like her mirror, because she's beautiful and doesn't need a mask.

Because he's stupid and trusts his daughter that she isn't going to od. Alicia is never coming back out to her half blind burned body, he'll be back to get her sooner rather than later.

Because he's stupid and trusts his daughter that she isn't going to od

No he doesn't. Even fake Verso tells her this, and says that he knows she lied to him about eventually coming out of the painting but he chose to believe she might anyway and left.

Not like Gustave has much choice in the matter, like painted Alicia didn't need to be painted burned, he was repainted without an arm, that is the will of the god.

Most of the Verso Ending players tend to believe

[some bullshit I made up to put in people's mouths]

No, we believe that Verso's choice is the only reasonable option. Everything else is just delaying the painted apocalypse by a couple of years.

I just think she's neat.

Be a shame if someone came and posted the next sentence. Sorry, bad faith NPC. You don't have a soul either.

To all those retards/women shitting on Verso and praising Maielle arent you forgetting the most important being you should be asking? Verso's childlike soul is being forced to keep the canvas and the parasitic Lumerians alive who are illegal immigrants in the Canvas

I was wrong, so Versofags actually believe this: We should genocide a world of people with feelings and souls so the dysfunctional family in the "real" world can cope a little better with their grief. No, fuck you, retard. Maelle will do what fake Alicia wanted fake Verso to do. She will find a way to allow the painting to survive even after her death. She will convince her father not to destroy it, and convince her mother to stop going into it. You lose.

Quite literally only Clea believes that.

believing Clea's opinions over Verso's opinions

Literally delusional. Carry on, little fella.

afternoon in Mumbai

Versojeets are in full gear

coincidence?

Maelle will do what fake Alicia wanted fake Verso to do. She will find a way to allow the painting to survive even after her death. She will convince her father not to destroy it, and convince her mother to stop going into it. You lose.

You need a third ending to do that.
You know, if Verso could turn off the betrayal subroutine for one second.

So fuck this young boy's soul that is forced to paint for who knows how long to keep the lie going?

clea is just walled shes not a tranny. shes in her 30s.

True, even Renoir believes the painted people have souls, which is why he bothers to tell fake Renoir how sorry he is for him, and how he regrets all the pain he had to go through. And it's why he refers to Sciel and Lune as Maelle's friends, real people, not fake things unworthy of his attention.

She will find a way to allow the painting to survive even after her death. She will convince her father not to destroy it, and convince her mother to stop going into it.

The moment Alicia exists the painting it's getting destroyed. Not that she wants to exit back to her real body, she'll go crazy from overuse way before she sees her dad again.

find a clone of yourself living in peace

get so personally offended you turn her womb into a monster factory

then mindbreak her husband

What was her deal?

The only Dessendre who's not a drug-addled faggot and is doing something about the death of her brother

Still made the time to save them all

'Clea is so evil you guys'

'You mean the tranny??'

Verso deserves the HELL of having to play the piano for a legion of soulless golems. Something I can relate to trying to have any sense of discussion on this fuckin' site.

Team up when?

I didn't cry cry, but my eyes tered up a few times.

What's the point of the "war with the writers" anyway? If painters presumably can't use their paintings in the war itself (they can't seem to pull their created monsters out of the paintings to use as footsoldiers in the war). Writers then presumably can't use their written creation to attack the painters. So they're just two kinds of artists chimping out and molotoving each other's manors? Would have been sweet if people who were painted could come into the real world.

He was disturbed by the amount of violence going on, stop that and I dunno, come ask him later.
You're talking as if they couldn't asspull a way to end it another way, there's barely anything established about "souls" or "Writers", it's all unexplained terms. Maybe in a theoretical middle ending they let him pass and Alicia puts her soul in and claims it as theirs, so it can live on.

All you're proving is that it's a point of contention among painters and that they have the same conversation about it that we're having.
Well he's been lost in a painting before, so that would be seen as "going native" or something similar. It could definitely give someone the perspective that the painting is real when they've had an experience where they couldn't distinguish themselves from painted beings. Ironically, between him and Aline, it'd probably be Aline that would be more likely to think the painting is all make believe with their history and experience.

The story hammers in more than once that Verso didnt like to paint and liked music. Its cruel to force this child's soul to paint for an eternity just so these illegal immigrants his mom made can live

Verso didnt like to paint and liked music

He liked Esquie and Monoco, whom he painted.

The story hammers in more than once that Verso didnt like to paint and liked music.

He liked both. When Aline drew Lumiere, he loved her people as much as his Gestrals and other creations, and before the Fracture they lived in the same continent.

maelletrannies and versojeets still bickering

not realising the writers were right all along

Most of the Verso Ending players tend to believe the painted people are not real in any meaningful sense

Wrong, I believe they are real, but my boy Verso already suffered enough, and Maelle and Aline need to learn to live with the shit that happened to them. Yes it sucks that the entire Canvas gets destroyed, but it's better than it existing as a playground for an immature goddess where everyone is beholden to her whims.

retards like you is what makes the future so scary. The new evolved form of woke when people starting attacking and killing others for the sake of worthless and soulless AI robots.

With the eloquence conveyed by Painted Alicia, I think her mother believed the real Alicia to be aligned with them. The implication seems to be sabotage to attack each other's worlds? There's genuinely not a fucking thing in the game about the war, so I've got no idea. I presume its a family blood feud of sorts if we're in a modern-ish depiction of fantasy Paris.

Hidden 3rd ending where Alicia writes a good ending to Expedition 33?

Alicia conveys the same point when Verso begs her to end the painting by telling her directly that none of them are real. "They're real, you're real! To me!" The debate doesn't change the fact that most people concede they're artificial constructs. It's like telling an AI you're going to turn it off, so it does everything it can to prevent you from denying it function. Do you remember when Lune and Sciel lost all characterization and direction when they were told they live in a fake world?

"I'm gonna get my husband back! But not the baby, fuck that thing."
"Maelle is gonna pain the real world in our fake world for me so I can be real while fake yaaay!"

Entire narrative is sacrificed to preserving the false world and making more drug-addled retards out of its occupants.

worthless and soulless AI robots.

Anon, we're talking about magic dimensions here. Take a break from culture war brainrot.

What do the writers even support? I bet it's not that neither faction should get involved in the lives of their sentient creations and just let them be.

Yes as a child. That doesnt mean he didnt greatly prefer playing the piano.

What do the writers even support?

TPD

What do the writers even support?

killing psycho dessendres so they're already +1 in my book

The Dessendre hated their copies. From Clea fucked pClea up, to Alicia erased pAlicia instantly. I imagine Renoir must hate his copy for fucking his wife.
I wonder what real Verso would think of painted Verso?

Hidden 3rd ending where Alicia writes a good ending to Expedition 33?

You'd need the soul of Yoko Taro himself to descend upon the game and break the forced tragedy ending curse.

Holy shit I didnt even think of that. Did Renoir get cuckolded by a painting of himself

I don't see how Monoco would accept Maelle's ending for his best friend. Might have to mindrape him too, and then the next person and the next.

Did Renoir get cuckolded by a painting of himself

If my wife went to an alternate world where she was literal god to make her perfect life, and her perfect husband was literally me but with a sick ass coat, I wouldn't feel cucked, I'd feel proud.

And go buy the exact coat.

couldn't Alicia just paint Gustave and the crew again in a new painting in the Verso ending ? They never had soul in the beginning unlike Verso.

But what if his personality was different? He was you but he would listen to her woman prattle with rapt interest and ask how her day is etc.

She literally could. That was what Verso was telling her as she died in his arms.

what if his dick was bigger

This may be it.

no solution or suggestion?

The point is he isn't the exact same, he is a bit more of a callous asshole than the real Renoir.
If real Renoir was like his painted self then he would of needed to be forced out of the canvas at the end of the game instead of surrendering to Alicia's desperation.

Renoir is wrong. A bossbabe like Aline and her daughter would never lose themselves to a canvas

Probably many years later. She's not talented enough to recreate anything reliably, we don't even know if the people in her ending actually have free will like Aline's creations seemed to.

most people concede that

Unsubstantiated and not even backed up by what little text we have from the painters regarding the topic in game. Everyone except Clea seems to believe they're somewhere in between. And stop the retarded AI comparisons, this is mystical bullshit that is way more sophisticated than modern AI.

Do you remember when Lune and Sciel lost all characterization and direction when they were told they live in a fake world?

Yes, actually I am aware that the game is not perfect and has flaws in its characterization.

They never had soul in the beginning unlike Verso.

Arguing semantics. The game never elaborates on what a "soul" is, other than it's a piece of themselves that Painters need to put in their creations to animate them.
Effectively, their chroma was the soul of the painted people, since it stores their personhood to some extent, as shown by Sciel and Lune.

couldn't Alicia just paint Gustave and the crew again in a new painting in the Verso ending ?

No, the chroma would be different. You could make convincing copies but the chain of continuity would break.

The point is he isn't the exact same

He could have started out the same. Real Renoir didn't have to murder thousands every year.

You could make convincing copies but the chain of continuity would break.

Why does that matter? Copies is what Alicia wants.

Most tone deaf moment of the entire game. Alicia's third greatest tragedy and all of her friends wave at her with a big, cartoonish, "BUH-BYE!!"

AI is an example we can draw from, obviously our modern AI isn't sophisticated like this world. It's not even AI. The point is, you can equate painted beings to a model storing multiple LLMs. Alicia as Maelle brings back Lune and Sciel wrong. That's not a flaw in characterization, that's a flaw in top-down execution.

The creators of the game are now setting up a narrative in which all the characters you gave a shit about in the first 2 acts are not real, have no agency, and fully accept their doomed reality so long as they get a personalized heaven. Your Maelle Ending is even shot for horror, you silly bastard.

Yes, actually I am aware that the game is not perfect and has flaws in its characterization.

That's why I hope for a GOTY edition or similar, there's a lot of loose threads they could elaborate on.>Most tone deaf moment of the entire game. Alicia's third greatest tragedy and all of her friends wave at her with a big, cartoonish, "BUH-BYE!!"
You don't understand it's about muh THEMES it's THEMATICALLY APPROPRIATE so let's torpedo the story's verisimilitude.

Finished it this morning. Did not do all the side content. I like that they made the turn based combat a lot more interactive, but in the end it is still turn based, and I kind of want to get on with it. I prefer a more action oriented combat, but that's just my own personal gripe and zoomer brain (I am 39).
That being said game is amazing. Will always recommend it just for the story.
Stupid question, but the outside world is magical/fantastical as well right? What do the Writers create and why are they in conflict with the Painters?

Gustave is worth more than the entire Dessendre family put together.

but the outside world is magical/fantastical as well right? What do the Writers create and why are they in conflict with the Painters?

We don't know the extent of it. Clear sequel bait.

Stupid question, but the outside world is magical/fantastical as well right? What do the Writers create and why are they in conflict with the Painters

Their house in the real world had floating books and canvases. I assume the writers write books that you can go into. Who knows what their beef is about

The point is, you can equate painted beings to a model storing multiple LLMs. Alicia as Maelle brings back Lune and Sciel wrong.

No, not really. Unless you scale that to such insane degrees that the comparison is irrelevant. Nothing in the game implies that Lumierians don't have complete self awareness and consciousness of their actions, they aren't philosophical zombies.

Alicia as Maelle brings back Lune and Sciel wrong. That's not a flaw in characterization, that's a flaw in top-down execution.

I straight up disagree with that. The game just has atrocious pacing at this point, they clearly cobbled together all the content they had completed into the final areas, and those two characters suffered the most in being sidelined.

Gustave was the leader of the group and his priority was protecting Maelle, if he had lived Verso wouldn't have been able to as easily do all the shit he does. Verso probably would have let Sciel and Lune die as well if they had been on the cliff at the time.

Sciel expecting her husband back because she's friends with the goddess is exactly why this canvas is doomed.

I think their powers extend to the real world, I vaguely remember something about them repainting their manor after the fire to restore it

Your Maelle Ending is even shot for horror, you silly bastard.

I'm sorry? If you couldn't tell from the other line in the post, I don't think Maelle's ending is good, you absolute retard.

The creators of the game are now setting up a narrative in which all the characters you gave a shit about in the first 2 acts are not real

So you really believe they intended to invalidate almost the entire game and it's not just a miss on pacing. It's almost exactly the same miss on pacing almost every single RPG has at the end of the game before the final point of no return when a bunch of side content opens up btw.

True. Upset we can't seamlessly play after the ending with Gustave on our team again instead of Cuckso.

KILL ALL PAINTERS

I have the opposite feeling, the QTEs just turn it into a game of pressing the button at the right time. In an action game you'd get to move, not even need to dodge or parry if you were positioning yourself around attacks as they came out. I'm not a fan of waiting around while the enemies chain out attacks, it's somehow slower than turn based in that regard.

alicia gib wife with big bob very yes

Have people already forgotten Aline gave Verso that gift so he could decide what to do with the real Verso's soul fragment.

Is that why she did it, and not just because she couldn't bear to lose him and wanted to protect him against Renoir's gommage...

Maelle bringing back Pierre for Sciel was cringe, the dude died a normal accidental death without any interference from the Painter bullshit

Trap yourself away in a make believe world and pretend your dead brother is actually alive

Healthy.

Call me emotional but I quit this game after Gustave died and now I'll look up every spoiler I can about the story

So fuck this young boy's soul that is forced to paint for who knows how long to keep the lie going?

Yes. He used black magic to create a pocket universe with sentient life without considering the consequences. He fucked around and found out.

I recall Maelle mentioning Clea painted over Aline's version of her, but I don't recall how that changed her.

Aline's version of Clea was a person living the painted happy family life, falling in love with Simon, nothing out of the ordinary. Clea's version of herself is a Nevron slave factory.

Why does Renoir not paint over fake Verso, or the Lumierans?

Renoir is trapped under the monolith. We never see how a painter paints over another painting, but I'd imagine it requires them to be more free. Clea was never trapped like Renoir is.

Because Verso and Sciel and Lune defeated him in the final act of the game which resulted in him being kicked out of the painting and Maelle staying there forever.

It's just inconsistent. He gommages even Verso with just a bonk of his cane on the floor (which Alicia brings back immediatly after), he could in theory keep unmaking Sciel and Lune efortlessly and Alicia would have to keep remaking them. It's a case of don't think about it here's the boss fight.

It's just a culture war with some good ol fashioned terrorism between two rich factions in early 20th century Paris

That's why I hope for a GOTY edition or similar, there's a lot of loose threads they could elaborate on.

I'd rather the game stay flawed than introduce enough extra shit to make everything too obvious. The movie will do that anyway since movies have to be written for retards.

"They're real, you're real! To me!"

I'm not trying to pick apart the way you've exposed this, but in the scene the punctuation implies she's way more insecure of even affirming about their reality. It's like she doesn't entirely believes it herself.

Wrong choice, Act 1 has the best gameplay since it's not yet "parry everything" and the transition to the new guy is rough as fuck, but Act 2 and 3 are more creative.

Just beat the Dualliste, how good is Dualiso for using?

I never really thought about that. Does Maelle do that for anyone who died from a tragic accident in the past? What about in the future? Will she let Lumerians die?

transition to the new guy is rough as fuck

Why is everyone jerking off his ranking mechanic anyway? Why the fuck do I need more damage if I'm already not getting hit to keep the rank up? I simply did not use him since I already had Lune deleting shit with Crystal Crush.

the nerfed damage kinda sucks balls but it's a free turn without using Blitzs and Verso benefits from base attacks with perfection + the pictos that add effects on top of them. I like the glowy A rank only swords you can get soon after more

Renoir is trapped under the monolith. We never see how a painter paints over another painting, but I'd imagine it requires them to be more free.

Bitch. Renoir is not trapped. He's free in Act 3 and about to gommage the entire painting. Why (AT THAT POINT) does he not paint over Lune and Sciel or fake Verso? That would almost guarantee he defeats Maelle and brings her back into the real world and destroys the painting. Answer that question, and stop playing willfully ignorant and acting like I'm talking about Renoir prior to Act 3.
No matter what answer you give, it will boil down to this... Maelle is stronger than Renoir. She defeats him. She's better than him.

I never really thought about that.

I don't think she did either.

I would also hate a shitty knock off of myself made just because my mother was having a woman moment.

It's his best weapon until act 3.

Will she let Lumerians die?

The game implies she will let Verso die of old age.
There is no reason to assume she wouldn't do the same for all the others if they ask.

I simply did not use him since I already had Lune deleting shit with Crystal Crush.

I didn't use him either unless it was forced. It was Maelle for the damage, Lune for the feet and Monocco for the feet.

The game implies she will let Verso die of old age.

Wait a second
If Verso is older in the piano concert, but everyone else is at the same age, did she repaint him as older?
Did she make everyone else immortal except him, so he keeps repeating the concert until he dies?
How much time has passed and Lumiere is still ruins?

Why (AT THAT POINT) does he not paint over Lune and Sciel or fake Verso?

We never see how a painter paints over another painting

He gommages even Verso with just a bonk of his cane on the floor (which Alicia brings back immediatly after), he could in theory keep unmaking Sciel and Lune efortlessly and Alicia would have to keep remaking them.

I answered that with what little information we have. I cannot tell for sure because the magic of how the gommaging or painting over works.

No matter what answer you give, it will boil down to this... Maelle is stronger than Renoir. She defeats him. She's better than him.

She only defeats him with the help of Aline coming back inside the painting to help her. She's not stronger than him. She even has to ask him to rebuild Lumiere, because she couldn't immediatly do it herself. He has acumulated most of the chroma (magical energy) of the canvas by that point in the game.

Yeah but they're all fucking dead by the end of the game anyway. Maelle can only bring back Sciel and Lune cause she knew them and it was recent.
Her ending didn't make sense to me since Lumiere as she knew it is gone and always will be, and the illusion is broken as is She never felt like she fitted in before and she'll still feel that way knowing she's effectively god in there. Painted Verso is a cunt but the small part of his soul deserved to be let go.

If Verso is older in the piano concert, but everyone else is at the same age, did she repaint him as older?

Up to interpretation.

Did she make everyone else immortal except him, so he keeps repeating the concert until he dies?

Up to interpretation.

How much time has passed and Lumiere is still ruins?

Up to interpretation.
The fact that we don't actually know any of this tells us how fucked up her ending really is. But I guess he doesn't have to live as a mute burn victim so there's that.

Renoir is heavily weakened from fighting Aline the last 67 years and painting over someone is a very difficult thing to do. He has some level of respect for the humans in the painting and doesn't want to do them dirty like Clea does. Maelle never even really beats him, he bleeds a bit and caves in. If he was 100% dead set on winning the fight he would have gone crying to Clea for help.
I don't think Verso is older, it's just the black and white stage lighting.

It's damage is worse but it's okay free damage if you put on some pictos for it.

It would be really based if in Verso's ending, she goes on with the goal of becoming a better painter to paint infinite Versos chained to infinite pianos forced to play for an audience of puppets forever.

The fact that we don't actually know any of this tells us how fucked up her ending really is

No us not knowing does the exact opposite of telling us how fucked up the ending is. We literally don't know how fucked up it is.
It could be very fucked up or it could not be that fucked up at all.

I don't think Verso is older, it's just the black and white stage lighting.

The scar is missing from his face at least.

Renoir and Aline, strongest painters in the world, couldn't defeat their 16 year old daughter who just learned how to paint

How can you possibly argue that Maelles ending is good. She literally traps herself into a Lotus Eater Machine that is slowly killing her. We have seen this same exact story play out in Justice League with Superman and in Gurren Lagann

I don't recall that being implied. And I can't imagine after all her loss letting the likes of the party die.

It would be based if in the Verso ending, she learned nothing, grew nothing, and just tortured this character I've grown an irrational hatred towards

Uhh...how about no?

irrational hatred

NTA but fuck him for making his sister kill himself.
That shit would have been an obvious YOU FUCKED UP RETARD failure condition for the good ending in any game except this French fuckery

The only way I would consider the Verso ending better is there was a post credits scene that shows painted Verso somehow didn't die, and is just stuck in a blank canvas void for eternity.
I feel bad for the part of the real ones soul still trapped in there. Not him.

I don't recall that being implied

She ask verso if he would be able to smile if he could grow old in her ending.
Unless all she meant was that he would be able to grow wrinkles, I think it is implied she made him mortal.

The answer is obvious.

She repainted them all you fucking retard, did you not watch the ending?

I didn't quit but it really fucking soured the game for me.

It's not good, it just doesn't involve immediate genocide. Every other implication about it is bad.

irrational hatred

He murdered thousands.

She repainted them all

Only a few people, and a dozen other nameless characters who look suspicious as fuck.

It could be very fucked up or it could not be that fucked up at all.

Yeah, except that we see Verso has aged and everyone else seems to be more or less suspended in time.

I just don't see her letting anyone she personally cares about die. Beyond being a horribly burned mute in reality, she doesn't want to let Verso go. I don't imagine she'll let him actually die, just forever be her emotional support fake brother. Same with the others in the party + Sophie.

So that's why Anon Babble schizos hate it.

Why would that be fucked up? Most people would prefer not dying.

Painted Alicia is literally me, trying to give these people a good ending. Except they didn't deserve it.

If you hate a character for mudering le poor Lumierians, that's Renoir. Verso didn't do it. He just removed Aline from the painting, something the party would have done, if they were capable, even without his help.

Gustave literally has nothing to do with the actual story, he's just the guy you play for 4 areas lmao you are a retard

Maelle's ending is her personal fantasy. There's not going to be logic or consistency it'll be what Maelle wants for each individual.

And that's why the game fell off a cliff after the midpoint

How do you explain her statement then? This just feels like ignoring what the game tells us because it goes against your interpretation.

Painted rights are human rights. I owe Painted Alicia sex.

That's why the game became good after the midpoint, Gustave is a nobody and is boring as fuck

The reason she was able to repaint Sciel and Lune so easily is because they only just died and she knew them well. Maelle was said to be a bit of a loner so it's highly unlikely she knew everyone in Lumiere well enough to repaint them all the same way, in which case they aren't the same people.

Just headcanon your endings like the writers did lol

So does the jumpcare in Maelle's ending imply that she is staying too long in the panting and losing herself?

Allow me to interject for a moment.
In Act 3 when you find pClea, Maelle says only Clea is capable of painting over someone else's creation, and the only two instances of repainted persons we see are pClea and Simon. When you face Simon it was either Maelle or Verso who said "looks like he met Clea".

I don't hear piano music, Verso.

This is just headcanon. The game doesn't even try to imply that Maelle would be incapable of bringing people back. Everyone, including Verso, seems to think that she is capable of doing it.

Maelle says only Clea is capable of painting over someone else's creation, and the only two instances of repainted persons we see are pClea and Simon.

Didn't Aline paint over Simon again, before sending him on his way to Renoir?

How do you explain her statement then?

This is a game where character constantly lie, deceive and ommit information. From what the game shows us in the ending dialogue before the cutscenes, what Alicia truly wants is to live with Verso a lifetime it's been denied them. This is her objective.
Knowing this, would it be reasonable to assume that if, let's say, Verso suddently got ran over by a horse on leaving the concert and died, she'd just leave him dead? Or would it be more reasonable to assume she'd paint him back and force him to live that happy dream life she wants with her big brother?

We don't know, but many people believe it's her using her painter powers, because Verso starts playing immediately after.

Also the effect is the same as the VR goggles they use to enter the paintings. (see pic)

The game is worse after the midpoint tho. I found myself wasting time in beach minigames, strategizing and teambuilding less, restarting just to learn parries and then eventually oneshotting everything.

The game also tells us she doesn't want to leave because

She's a fucked up mute burn victim in reality

She doesn't want to lose the last connection she has to Verso

I think it's just to show the audience that she's in too deep.

youtube.com/watch?v=GhwmZ_U8Ff0
Absolute Kino.
Painted Renoir and Painted Alicia didn't deserve any of the shit that happened to them.

There are meaningful lies and there are pointless lies in a story.
What would be the narrative point in Maelle lying in that moment? If the point was to show that she would never let Verso go, they could just not have her say that. Because that is what the previous scene would lead us to believe. But by having her say that it implies she tries to compromise somewhat with Verso.

Except for her being unable to bring them back until Verso tells her to focus on their essence and the "truth of who they are".
There's also the fact we don't have a timelimit on how long she has to bring them back before it's too late.

The game doesn't even try to imply that Maelle would be incapable of bringing people back.

I don't think that's his point. Don't you find it strange that the dialogue while Alicia is trying to paint Lune and Sciel back mentions how it's about knowing one's essence? But then, in her ending, she repaints Sciel's hushband, a man she knows nothing about, and probably haven't even met.

How could she have know the essence of strangers?

Sex with Golgra.

You sure do, op!

Wouldn't she realistically just make another Verso?

it implies she tries to compromise somewhat with Verso.

She compromises so much with Verso she forces him back into an existance he doesn't want...

They all die, btw.

At least you could argue that Painted Renoir went too far in his methods to achieve his goals which is for some reason not applied to real Renoir, I wonder why but Painted Alicia was a literal saint.
One of those "good character dropped in a shitty universe for misery porn" cases.

Yes, but only for a lifetime. That's the compromise.

But going from needing their exact chroma and detailed fresh memories of them to repaint them to just being able to recreate some dude named Pierre who she never met and whose chroma surely returned to Aline? Seems unlikely, unless a good deal of time passed and in that time she somehow became a very skilled painter on par with Aline, but even in that case they would still just be very good copies. Her ending would be way more interesting if that was the implication.

Similar experience. I kinda rushed to Act 3 because it made narrative sense to keep going and the few side areas I checked all showed up as dangerous. Then I did Endless Tower and went from around level 65 to 85 by the time I was done with it. Everything except Simon was a cakewalk after that.

She still speaks the language of love.

If Verso wanted to compromise he could have given that goddamn letter :^)

the way she hugs her father in the end

My heart can't take it.

how is the painted world any less real than the one outside it?

writers are nazis, painters are allies

I didn't cry for the act 2 gommage, I didn't cry for Monoco and Esquie hugging Verso, but I did cry when Painted Alicia killed herself. Fucked up.

She wants to spend a lifetime with him. What if he dies the next morning? That's not spending a lifetime together.
It's pretty clear a big part of her character, specially on the Maelle ending, is that she cannot move over his death.

Clea and Renoir both showed they can paint over someone's will

Only Clea. Renoir painted his own creations (the Axons and the monsters he summons in Lumière)

Just because she isn't capable of moving on in that moment, doesn't mean she will never be capable to move on.

*plin plon*

There are far more niggers in actual Paris than in fantasy Paris

It's fantastic if you build around it, primarily with Versatile and anything that buffs free aim shots or base attacks. The more AP you can get the better, because that's more shots, which makes all your attacks stronger

Clea painted over her portrait self.

Yes

Renoir painted over Simon and Clea does as well.

He didn't. Clea mindfucked Simon to direct him to kill her Axon and then Aline. Simon killed The Hauler but when he reached Aline she unfucked his mind, boosted him (because he is her creation) and directed him against Renoir instead. He failed to kill Renoir and hide in the Abyss since then.

For the inhabitants of each world it's not. The painted world however is a lower plane and people from the higher plane are omnipotent and hellbent on controlling what happens in it.

I don't want this life

Because Maelle's whole story is about loss. She lost her painted parents, then spent several years bouncing between different homes till she met ended up with Gustave. Then she loses him, then all of Lumiere. Then she remembers who she is in the real world, how she's lost Verso and her own voice, and only her dad doesn't blame her, and he wants to destroy the one thing she feels she does have left.
Obviously it's not stated outright. But I can't imagine a character who's suffered loss after loss, in the ending where they effectively choose to deny reality and live as a god in what may as well be a toybox for her, to willingly let those she cares about within that reality to ever leave her.

I'm not sure, but I don't think so.
His journal says he was going to fight the Paintress cause he thought that would free Clea (I assume pClea) but then he realized Renoir was the threat, and then slowly lost his mind the more time he spent in Drafts/Abyss.

That doesn't change the fact that they're getting destroyed to save Mamam and Alicia.

how is the painted world any less real than the one outside it?

Also after fucking Verso, what a whore...

I don't want this life...

I beat the game, did most side content that I found (I entered the final area on accident lol) but what's this about that girl committing suicide? Never saw that. Or was it just implied?

BASED

Gustave was standing in the way of his dream of becoming a haram protagonist.

vggh how can you have children in this accursed world

might aswell be real life

because it's a painting. a magic painting, but still. the lives of real people with souls are more important.

Ohnono gusebros...

Again you are just engaging in your own interpretation without engaging in what the game actually says. How does Maelle allowing Verso to grow old make sense in this interpretation.

She asks Alicia to kill her at the end of The Reacher dungeon. It's suicide by paintress.

I don't want this life

filename

Verso has never said a fact in his life, motherfucker lies as he breathes

yes a painted world, good work there detective. but how is it any less real?

It doesn't because I don't believe that's what happens.
But we're all entitled to our own opinions, and I like discussing them. I'm not trying to declare you're wrong, just saying I don't personally agree.

His interpretation is based on what the game provides, it's not like he's pulling shit out of thin air. There is no hint of her learning anything in her ending so that she'd be willing to part with Verso when he naturally dies.
Even the whole debate of him being older is speculation. We cannot know that for sure. All we know is that he no longer has his scar, which is a strange fact already, as he said he intentionally left that scar up, as a last connection with his father (pRenoir).

simon is missing the same arm Gustav is

33 on the monolith, also the same day Verso dies

theres clearly some deeper psych thing going on, maybe the Freud-fag poster from last week was right

Painted Alicia's reason to live was finding some sort of way that would allow the painted world to remain, since they both loved their families dearly, and one shouldn't need to die for the other.
Except Verso lied and failed her sister's trust test by not giving Maelle her letter because it would interfere with his Grande Keikaku to fuck over everyone, and she asks to be killed.

what was this story again, Atrus traps his brother in one of his books and he has to get out? i forget if this was Myst or Riven

She tells him that he will grow old. That is the final line of the game before the epilogue.

I just got this game today and played it for like 5 hours. It's pretty good so far and I'm having a fun time. I'm just going to the Gestral village now after that coral area.

Leave this thread nigga.

Sequel possibilities?

and she asks to be killed.

I understand her. Her mother hates her and was kicked out of the canvas. Her father was killed, her sister was turned into a mindless monster factory and her brother betrayed her. I would end it too.
youtube.com/watch?v=cNbB-gzZAiU

She tells him that he will grow old.

That's more of an order than a compromise.

"You WILL grow old with me, wheter you like it or not"

She's obssessed with Verso. The game provides nothing that could lead us to believe she'd get over him in her ideal world.
Her ideal ("dream") world is one where he lives with her until she dies.

Leave.

Simon missing the arm is 99% probably just an Artorias reference.

Why does painted Alicia have completely white skin? What did they mean by this?

The painted Dessendres all have white hair, obviously (remember Verso says he gets his dyed). Aline's faceless paintress form does, too, as well as Maelle after she gets her Alicia memories back. Renoir's hair (both real and painted) always reads more as gray than white to me, but the expeditioners call p-Renoir "the white-haired man," so I guess it's supposed to be white. A common thread tying these people together is their knowledge of the truth of the world they exist in -- they all know that they live in a canvas. I think this is also true of Monoco, who also has white hair, but I didn't mention him.

Verso says his hair suddenly turned white sometime after the fracture. (It's Verso speaking, so there's no telling how true it is, or what he's leaving out, but I don't remember anything that contradicts what he says there.) Perhaps what precipitated that change is the p-Dessendres learning about the true nature of the world they lived in. In other words, maybe learning the truth turns their hair white. Verso, "He Who Guards Truth With Lies," hides his white hair. I think white hair is somehow symbolic or representative of truth.

Does sheet-white skin suggest a deeper or purer understanding of the truth, then? Maybe knowledge of the truth about something other than the world? The only characters I can think of who have white skin are p-Alicia and p-Clea. Both of them have come into contact with their real-world counterparts. Verso never meets the real Verso, obviously, and p-Renoir indicates that the first time he meets real Renoir is at the end of Act 2, seconds before p-Renoir dies. Maybe the pale skin is representative of knowledge of some truth about oneself.

Direct sequel? Pretty low. Sequel in the same (real) world? Pretty much assured.

What were the alternatives at that point? Hope Maelle wins and keep a low profile while she puppetmaster's your brother?

That's more of an order than a compromise.

It's not framed like an order at all.
Verso has already disintegrated and she hesitantly ask if he will find a reason to smile if he could grow old.

Finished the game. Didn't understand why Maelle hair became white after she discovers 'the truth'. What's the significance behind it? Looks like the "copies" have white hair, but she's not a copy.

After she just lied to her father.
Again I just can't imagine someone who's lonely and cherishes those she loves, yet loses so many upon getting the ability of a god, not preventing those she cares about from ever dying.

and her brother betrayed her

That's the big one, she didn't even call him family anymore. Poor girl.

Why does painted Alicia have completely white skin? What did they mean by this?

Aline blames Alicia for Verso's death and wished it was Alicia died in his place. She half assed painted Alicia's portrait and made sure she was a burn victim.
Yes, Aline is the cause of most the shit happening in the game.

The director's favourite games include Devil May Cry
Between that and Verso's perfection mechanic, take a guess.

Her hope was that when she gave Verso the letter to Maelle, they'd find a solution BEFORE their families teared each others apart. Once they killed painted Renoir and kicked out Aline her hopes died with it.

Good catch and interesting theory. I'm just not sure on the white skin thing. It seems like more of an aesthetic representation of decay.

Honestly either ending is a good ending to me because Aline gets fucked over no matter what.
Everything we learn about her makes her sound like an absolute cunt of a mother and wife.

seeVerso had already disappeared before she even says it. It simply doesn't make sense for it to be a lie.

Why does painted Alicia have completely white skin? What did they mean by this?

Aline didn't finish painting her, she's still black and white. She intentionally left her unfinished, disfigured, mute and suffering.

There's his very neat moment when for the entire Act 1 she only appears in black and white cutscenes, so you assume it's just an aesthetics choice,. Then after Lampmaster the camera pans up to her on the cliff, and you realize her body is actually black and white.

What have you been doing sophie?

I wouldn't go to her gommage.

Being able to age != being able to die.

Again I just can't imagine someone who's lonely and cherishes those she loves, yet loses so many upon getting the ability of a god, not preventing those she cares about from ever dying.

Pretty much. Just as she lied to her father ("I will leave the canvas, I promise!"), she will also lie to herself and to Verso ("Just live a bit longer, I promise!" "Just one more life, I promise!").

Lucien wouldn't do this...

So you think that all Maelle did was make him able to get wrinkles? What would be the point of that?

Nu uh

Everything we learn about her makes her sound like an absolute cunt of a mother and wife.

Aline did do everything wrong, but she's a mother in grief for her son. It's understandable of her to want to live in denial over Verso's death. The magic of the game just takes a snapshot of her "denial" phase of grief and makes it ever lasting, instead of time passing and her possibly moving to other stages.

People lie to themselves as much as they lie to others.

His future is decided by her. He'll die when she allows him to die.

Keeps the fantasy she's growing old along her brother more real. Easier to immerse herself into.

It's to represent her gaining knowledge. It's anime bullshit.

Makes him closer to the other painted creations. What's the point of making a suicidal person mortal if you want them to grow old?

Roastie wasn't ready for having a family

Enthusiast of lust like the other people in the closed off building

B-but please attend my gommage!

How about no.

n-no there's no anime tropes

The puppet going super sayan wasn't an anime trope?

I'm not just even referring to her grief with Verso, I mean in general. What we get about her from before Verso died makes her seem like a shit mom.

I want a Nier Automata style new ending. Yes, I don't le get it, let me huff my copium

First porn I see of any of the characters has a nigger

Why are people like this

painted people are real

damn sounds like....oh, i dont know, ALINE?

the WRITERS

Verso is actually Jesus

Calm down Guillaume, we know you love your self insert

saved btw

Press X to PISS upon

The game does not feel like it's set in the 20th century at all.

The screenshot is from the outside world. The outside world isn't meant to be our reality. We don't have magic paintings or a 33rd of December. The setting of Clair Obscure is Lumiere, a not-Paris set in a fantasy version of Belle Epoque france where people still speak Occitan and society is very Myst-like.

The only innocent character

Renoir is a better man than almost every man alive today. What would you do if your crazy bitch wife locked you in a basement for 67 years?

Verso wants the same thing as Renoir.

Verso tricked everyone including you. Verso wants to die, and he betrays everyone to that end.

Hugging Palicia, and silently watching her paint.

Retard.

Everything else is just delaying the painted apocalypse by a couple of years.

The difference in the endings is a difference of values. Life isn't eternal or permanent. Delaying death is not meaningless. You think Sciel wouldn't treasure an extra 30 years in a menage a trois with Pierre and Verso? You think Lune doesn't want to see her parents? Is it totally without value that Gustave and Sophie get to live without the shadow of the monolith over their lives, have their own kids, and see Gustave's apprentices into adulthood?

Is this a surprise to anyone? They're all selfish hypocrites, and all their lofty ideals are just masking their personal desire.

I'm a Verso guy, but I'm blown away that so many people don't see what a ruthless bastard he is. BASED and BRAVO.

This nigga always cracking me up

Verso himself said he can just choose not to heal wounds, if it was that simple he'd be dead already. He dies to Nevrons the same as anyone else.

The setting of Clair Obscure is Lumiere, a not-Paris

except Alicia literally calls it "PARIS" dumbass
Lumiere is the painted town, exclusively

play the game already

Do Nevrons have a right to exist?

33rd of december doesnt exist

christ i didnt even realize that until now

Doesn't he also say he's tried to kill himself before?

The voice makes him inherently funnier

I'm mad. Stinkin mad.

Also after fucking Verso, what a whore...

If you camp before the assault on Lumiere, there's a scene where Verso teaches her to swim. He tries to seduce her again, but she says things are different now that she's looking forward to having her husband back. Then she thinks about it for a sec and decides to have breakup sex with Verso. I'm not even kidding. Sciel is the best written supporting character of all time, she's so legitimately human.

True. I was so surprised to find out Aline/The Paintress was actually the good guy. Loved how she came back to help Maelle smack up her crazy father.

He's a real WHEEEEEE type G

Go offline so you don't get spoiled.

Who was your party by the end of the game? Everyone I've seen seems to go with Verso, Maelle and Monoco

Total Verso Death.
Total Painter Death.
TOTAL DESSENDRE ANNIHILATION.

painted people are real

no and its all in the naming, if they honestly felt it was a different world they wouldn't have kept calling it a canvas

I hated Monoco in battle. For some reason I just didn't level him right I guess. Also I was kind of running the bikini squad for most of the game, sometimes Verso, but since Verso is a whiny traitor I shant be using him in new game+ at all.