Not satisfied with TLOU2 having a bad story, he decided to try and ruin TLOU1's story by saying the following
Could the Fireflies make a cure? Our intent was that, yes, they could. Now, is our science a little shaky that now people are questioning it? Yeah, it was a little shaky and now people are questioning that. I can't say anything. All I can say is that our intent is that they would have made a cure. That makes it a more interesting philosophical question for what Joel does."
Joel was morally right to protect Ellie.
A cure for "your brain has been turned inside out and turned into a shroom"? How does that work?
He's not ruining it. The autistic morons trying to complain that "the-the fireflys didn't have the resources to make a cure anyway so Joel was right" are the fucktards ruining the story.
There's no right answer, and it's moral quandary the audience is supposed to wrestle with. That's what makes the ending so great.
Where Cuckmann fucked up was the sequel, which removed any nuanced ambiguity and told the audience EXACTLY what they were supposed feel.
JERRY ANDERSON
WAS A BLACK MAN
Everything in the original TLoU points towards the Fireflies being incompetent at best, an absolute blight on society at worst.
Communities like Tommy's have proven that society is moving on from quarantine zones and small raider groups.
The Fireflies ignore basic medical science when it comes to making a vaccine in favor of killing Ellie because reasons.
Joel himself knew the Fireflies were full of shit
It's astounding to me just how very George Lucas-y Neil Druckmann has proven himself to be without Bruce Straley or other competent ex-Naughty Dog writers to reign him in. In fact, friendly reminder that the first game's plot would've been much the same as what Part II's plot ended up being when there was nobody at ND to tell Druckman the word "No!".
Neil expects me to believe the rogue rebellion group with zero funding or medical achievements in the past 25 years would be able to understand how the brain works and create a vaccine
Again expects me to believe said vaccine wouldn't be selfishly hoarded by the Fireflies or stolen from them or wiped out when they inevitably get themselves killed (which Joel did anyway)
Neil Druckmann has been promoting himself a lot lately. There's literally "Neil Druckmann Propaganda" videos now, like the "Directing with Neil Druckmann" feature.
How many times are you going to repost this? We already knew the cure could work, but
he was naive and thought she would survive treatment while traveling there until the end
the fireflies are notoriously retarded bumblefucks and scumbags, being put in charge of a cure
anyone already infected beyond a certain point is shit out of luck, so is at best a very rare preventative vaccine
Joel, having understood all of this, didn't think it was worth sacrificing his new surrogate daughter
Druckmann doesn't understand the story because he likely didn't write any of the blueprints for the first game, so he has to pretend that nobody else understood the revisionism because of his own lack of literacy.
Everyone knows by now that Amy Hennig and Bruce Straley carried this fraud hard. As soon as they left, Naughty Dog turned into shit. No one to carry this exposed fraud ass anymore.
They barely had electricity how the fuck would they have made a cure
Even if they made a cure how the fuck would they distribute it
Even if they could distribute it, they're still forced to stay in their camps because the mushroom men would kill anyone who stepped outside
Anon Babble should swap the captcha with a basic math question to prevent people like you from posting
HIS REAL NAME
WAS JEROME AYOBEMBE
fireflies leave notes in the hospital about how they've found other immune people in the past and did surgery on them and nothing happened
But I'm supposed to believe THIS TIME FOR SURE IT WILL CERTAINLY WORK
be Gentiles
made the golden age of vidya, hardware and software
be shekelsteinbergwitz
made the worst age of vidya, hardware and software
jews are just as good as the gentiles they sorround with, that's why naughty dogs games are better at everything except where Neil Druckman placed his hands
lead surgeon pulls out a gun and shoots at Joel so I HAVE to kill him in self defense
is never brought up to Abby
cure works
I assume by cure he means vaccine or some other preventative medication. Either way good luck having the fireflies distribute and manufacture it. Fedra hates them and based on their tactics I would assume normal people hate them too.
The Fireflies ignore basic medical science when it comes to making a vaccine in favor of killing Ellie because reasons
This is the one that's especially baffling. How the fuck do you expect me to buy that these dumb fucking idiots know what they're doing when their step one is to kill the one immune person they put all their stock in? Really? No blood tests, check if the immunity can be cultivated outside of the host somehow, check if the immunity factor is even compatible with anyone other than the host, just immediately put her on the slab and start cutting? What was their plan even? Did they expect to find a pocket dimension filled with magical infinite vaccines in Ellie?
The finale is obviously just designed to tug at your heartstrings by presenting an extremely flimsy backdrop for the fantasy of you saving the surrogate daughter you dragged along all game. And that's totally fine. But it gets fucking ridiculous the moment you shine a light on it and ask people to inspect it with any degree of scrutiny, because it does not hold up at all.
no! the people having fun discussing the logistics and the world are the ones who are wrong!
haha, okay pal
Meh, this way the ending is very similar to that mission in Alpha Protocol when you have to choose between saving your potential gf and saving a whole crowd of people from an explosion. I think it's more interesting when the player doesn't know if the cure can be successfully created or not.
Retards like you are why media across the board are going to complete shit. Congratulations, you represent the majority of braindead NPC consumers. The kind of retard who is literally incapable of engaging with anything beyond the absolute surface level or formulate a thought that wasn't handed to him beforehand. You're a fucking embarrassment.
Retards like you will watch Star Wars and complain that explosions wouldn't happen in space and there would be no noise.
Fucking rope yourself.
There's zero reason to do brain tests. HER BLOOD AND DNA IS ALL YOU NEED
Has no actual response so tries to insult with Shit wars of all things
You got BTFO by that anon kek
oy vey how do you dare question Neil Druckmann oucie
false equivalence
ad absurdum
already given up on defending his position
The classic midwit maneuver. Ignore, deflect, exaggerate. It makes me sick to think that I have to share a species with a complete waste of human potential like you.
I swear everyone on this website is low IQ and incapable of understanding the nuance in why Joel was correct.
Here's a scenario where Joel would have been wrong:
Fireflies greet Joel and Ellie peacefully
Welcome them in to their base
Explain to both of them that they're trying to make a cure
Explain that in order to make the cure, they will have to cut open Ellie's skull which will indirectly kill her
Explain it would be for the greater good and promise and reassure that they wouldn't hoard the cure but try their best to share it with all mankind.
Give Ellie the choice to sacrifice herself for humanity or to preserve her own life
If Ellie chooses to sacrifice herself give her and Joel some time to say goodbye, and even welcome Joel to become a member and help protect Ellie's sacrifice by aiding their mission to spread the cure
They would almost certainly convince Ellie to take the plunge and Joel would accept it.
Instead here's what happens:
Joel and Ellie arrive at the Fireflies base
They immediately engage in hostilities and knock him unconscious
He wakes up and they treat him coldly, and refuse to let him see Ellie
Ellie has already been sedated and wasn't even told she was going to be sacrificed
Joel isn't allowed to see her or say goodbye, and is threatened when he asks to do so
Fireflies discuss killing Joel before he even makes a move to save Ellie
Joel decides this people are insane and goes to rescue Ellie
It's obvious to anyone who isn't a complete retard that the Fireflies aggression made it clear that Joel was in the right to save Ellie.
Also the kike CEOs words about the cure working *ARE* a retcon because he already retconned the lab in remake or sequel (i forget) where instead of the doctor looking like a psychopath in some shitty unsterilized lab he remade the doctor and lab look clean and professional.
what would even be the point of the story be if they couldnt make a cure? joel lying to ellie would have been pointless
but of course zoomers on Anon Babble are retarded when it comes to actual storytelling
entire board filled to the brim with low iq third worlders even worse than Anon Babble
I think it's more interesting when the player doesn't know if the cure can be successfully created or not.
It absolutely is. Druckman doesn't seem to understand that's part of the reason why people were discussing the game for so long.
what would even be the point of the story be if they couldnt make a cure?
The point of the story is for the player to come to their own conclusion, dumbass. The problem is that the game very blatantly points in one direction with very little nuance, because it was written by dumbasses incapable of nuance, while faggots like Druckman try to convince you that you totally shouldn't believe the evidence of your own fucking eyes.
I feel bad for all the far more competent tardwranglers that were chased out after the original TloU
Hold on.
Did Neil intentionally hire this ugly potato so people would root for this scenario more? Son of a bitch.
This anon got it. The reason why everyone was so on board with Joel murdering everyone to the point where they had to retcon the hospital design, part 2 had to blatantly lie to you, and Druckman has to run damage control like this is precisely because they fumbled the end of the game so damn hard. They gave you absolutely no reason to believe the first fucking thing the Fireflies told you about anything, turned them into idiotic psychopaths, hinged the "twist" on a ridiculous procedure that would seem crazy to you even without knowing the first thing about medicine, and then expected there to be a moral quandary.
ctrl +f "marlene"
zero matches
Part II shills are dishonest liars
He hates Joel, that's why
That's all that needs to be said
He's an incel at his core which is why he made Ellie a lesbian and made her the main character while killing off Joel
no one is going to sexualize my waifu that i made for my video game because she's into women!
No wonder his dad beat him as a kid
Why the fuck did the Fireflies need to remove Ellie's brain? Why was that the only way? I still have not received an actual answer to this question, but it all comes back to this completely retarded plot device that doesn't seem to have any reason to exist in the first place.
Alright, you made the cure. What's next???
"joel was right"
"a cure was possible"
"please pay attention to me"
I don't even like TLOU but wasn't this fucking obvious? There's no point to the moral conflict if their cure wouldn't have worked, the question was just "are you going to give up someone you love for the world?"
Why do shills like you try so hard to hide your intent?
getting sick of this douche and his dumb games
retard have an opinion
i dont care
Not even Hollyweird likes Neil Druckmann
Ahahahahaha, get fucked you incompetent hack! I can't wait to see that space lesbian game you're cooking up fall flat on its face!
Whether Ellie would have chosen to go along with the procedure or not was always the more interesting ambiguous part because it raises more ethical questions. If the Fireflies could actually make the vaccine only really raises the question of whether a person's life is worth risking on something so uncertain.
Druckmann himself said he’d do what Joel did. And Joel doubting the feasibility of a cure (which he didn’t) would only make him less likeable. Factoring in supply lines to his decision on whether to save his daughter or not would have been sociopathic.
If you think Joel is a villain for what he did, or that Druckmann hates him and wants you to hate him, you’re a retard.
Mmm I love when all the mystery is removed from a plot, I love being told the way I should feel about a story.
She’s a hardcore evangelical Christian
youtu.be
There was ambiguity. Joel would be giving up someone he loves for a chance, not certainty.
that ugly potato mug front and center
goddamn couldn't she just zoom out even just a bit when taking a photo.
was
Still is
not straight
hardcore christian
does not compute
Crazy to think there are people who wouldn't have donated Ellie to save humanity. Removing the ambiguity makes Joel look like a lunatic.
doesn't elaborate how
Fuck this nigger jew
It is not possible to be straight and christian at the same time.
so basically Life is Strange ending but on a wider scale?
Just say no.
OG had tapes claiming there were many others like Ellie and none of them provided a cure from their sacrifice.
IIRC they were removed in the "remake"
That's just being a caring parent, why would anybody think it was evil of him to rescue her? Can't people put themselves into the shoes of others? There shouldn't be any debate on this, or are you telling me there are subhumans out there who wouldn't do anything for their loved ones because the end justifies the means?
Welcome to a post MCU world
Neat, I feel bad for making fun of her now....
Jesus loves everyone. There’s no contradiction there
Make fun of her as much as you want, she was a terrible miscast.
Acting on sinful urges and not seeking repentance for sexual immorality would be the anti-christian thing.
Everyone is drawn to sin in some way, we are sinful by nature due to first sin.
Nah I'm good
>made the golden age of vidya, hardware and software
Nope, that was Jews too.
My wife looks so cute when she's sleeping
Imagine trusting a jew lol
I thought he didnt even write 1 anyway
Why doesn't she try a haircut with bangs?
gay ass thread for a gay ass game LMAO
He wasn't alone and had people to hold his cuck views as much as they could, but in TLOU2 he was the lead writter and it shows.
99% of people die from being killed by other human beings
But curing this specific disease that kills the other 1% is going to save the world
Wow such a philosophical conundrum muh trolley problem but in interactive cinematic form!
Ragebait marketing is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Neil must be the most butthurt man in gaming.
He was vocal (IGDA Toronto 2013 Keynote) about how he felt gamers interpreted the ending of TLOU wrong.
He mass fired from ND everyone who disagreed with him 10 years ago.
He reinstated in Part II his original ideas that senior game director Bruce Straley had cut from TLOU.
People vehemently turnt against Part II in one of the greatest shitposting incidents in gaming history.
Finally Part II is being adapted onto the screen.
People reject his ideas yet again.
He cries how everyone is wrong yet again.
Part II shills line up to vehemently defend a charlatan (imagine if some nobody got Kojima fired and made his own MGS game) who made the sequel about Joel's supposed lie... AND NOT MARLENE AND THE FIRELIES THAT LITERALLY RAISED ELLIE AND MALICIOUSLY LIED TO HER ALL HER LIFE.
He's not ruining it
Except he is. Removing ambiguity and saying they 100% could've made a cure makes Joel seem more selfish, whereas when there's only the possibility they could've made a cure, the choice becomes muddier.
take a chance on saving the world but let them kill your daughter
Is more complicated than
100% for sure become the savior of mankind but lose your daughter
This. Drunkman doesn't even understand the quandary of the first game. Because he's a retarded hack.
Bruce Straley
Why do retards believe Bruce Straley was this secret mastermind behind Naughty Dog's success? In TLOU his role was in the gameplay department. Not that you Anon Babblefags actually play video games but he was responsible for the utterly broken enemy AI which he lied about in the E3 demos. If The Last of Us was measured purely on its gameplay, not one would have talked about it. The Last of Us was a success story in spite of Bruce Straley, not because of him.
Basically this. Unironically only fathers and people that had good dads could easily understand Joel's choice, and his sort of redemption as a father in that last sequence.
"director says a thing we all knew already"
Wow let's all get mad for some reason.
No shit a cure would have worked, that was the entire point of the ending of TLOU1
That's not an ambiguity. Then Joel saving Ellie is a no brainer.
There is a recording where the doctor has tried multiple times before to get a cure and says there is none. Just play the original ps3 version and wander the hospital — Neil retconned it
No shit a cure would have worked
Damn it would be really crazy if there were tapes in the lab that explained how Ellie wasn't the only person with this supposed mutation that could be reverse engineered for a cure, only for the plan to fail with each sacrificed patient.
This time for sure though!
Go on youtube right now and find that tape record and post it here.
Why do retards believe Bruce Straley was this secret mastermind behind Naughty Dog's success?
secret? he was the senior director. he edited Neil's ideas. you can't asspull "secret" and not back it up.
In TLOU his role was in the gameplay department.
call other retards. make shit up.
guys this is a stupid story anyway why would I even be near a trolley
nobody even ties people to railroad tracks anymore
who's to say the lever would actually work
which removed any nuanced ambiguity
there is no ambiguity in the first game. the fireflies were murderers. they are the ones who lied to ellie all her life.
You made that shit up. He is credited as game director and in prerelease interviews he always stated story was Neil Druckmann's job and his was gameplay.
no u
Straley was co-writer with Neil Druckmann on The Last of Us and as much as Cuckmann will try to memory hole that in The Last of Us Part I and Season 1 of the HBO show, Straley is the reason Druckmann's retarded ideas didn't make it into the first game's narrative.
youtube.com
As we've seen IN ALL PAST CASES (confirming there were others before her)
We must FIND A WAY to replicate this under laboratory conditions (as in, they still have not been able to despite the past cases mentioned)
But sure, let's sacrifice Ellie on the gamble that maybe THIS TIME it will work.
That's AI.
Provide a single fucking evidence. You're inventing this out of thin air.
He is credited as game director
TLOU is a game.
im sorry but the PS3 version has most soul.
Past cases is referring to infected patients that were not immune, you idiot. And that recording is in the remake.
Past cases is referring to infected patients that were not immune
Proofs?
Past cases is referring to infected patients that were not immune
Why would he need to refer to them in such a way?
Game director in this case means gameplay and Creative director which was for Druckmann means writing or story.
That is just poor working on the part of Naughty Dog. The doctor is saying Ellie is special due to her immunity.
do you trust the high-functioning autists who love talking about world-building and lore all day?
or do you trust the jewish hack writer who was responsible for one worst stories ever written for a video game, because he couldn't stand the strong father figure main character?
You know, it's really not hard for me to pick a side here. Like, at all.
b-b-but the hack writer said-
I bet he said that the work that he tried to destroy was already broken anyways, right?
Past cases is referring to infected patients that were not immune, you idiot.
It isn't, but the fact that it isn't outright stated either way is part of what makes it a moral dilemma and makes the story better compared to Druckmann dumbing it down so he can make his new characters more likable (which failed anyways.)
The fact that Joel has to make a decision with incomplete information in a short amount of time is part of what makes it well written and shows how he has changed since the beginning of the story.
It is and your interpretation is even more retarded. If the fireflies were going to dissect Ellie based on flimsy evidence then there is no dilemma, Joel would have been unequivocally correct under any moral system.
Joel isn't out here listening to audiologs, bud. That's shit is what the player is doing. Ever heard of ludonarrative dissonance? Joel wouldn't care if the mushroom vax was guaranteed or not. There's no way he's reading the notes nor listening to the audio logs.
shut up, tard
Likely a crispr like gene therapy to pass on the immunity to future generations.
But cure the current infected? Maybe in the absolute earliest stage, like shortly after being infected .
Game director in this case means gameplay
in this case
admitting your source is the voices in your head. Bruce was the game director means he controlled everything.
Oh you're memeing. Got it.
what would a cure even accomplish?
youre not going to cure zombies and nobody wants to get bit in the first place
Shut up yourself phaggot
They should just put an emoji at the bottom corner of the screen so the audience knows when something is good or bad and doesn't have to use their brain
Joel isn't out here listening to audiologs, bud.
says who. dude you guys have to be the most delusional and stuborn shills in gaming history. reality slaps you across the face like a 9 inch black cock and you still make shit up. anon posts audio recording that irrefutably proves you wrong. but you still invent shit to say.
Oh you're memeing. Got it.
first name in credits. game director of the game. there is no proof anywhere that the game director only does gameplay and the second name in the credits magically has overall authority.
It's the only good one.
it's the only canon game after the game director left.
says who.
In that exact level perhaps the fact he's rushing to save ellie. lmao. You're goofy.
perhaps
You're goofy.
you need help
He's probably not taking about other immune, but even if he were it would be clear that Ellie's case is different.
"April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.
We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain."
Kindly kill yourself
Joel isn't out here listening to audiologs, bud. That's shit is what the player is doing. Ever heard of ludonarrative dissonance
Don't say retarded shit.
You're mad over nothing. Stay goofy.
we have to be one the same page and see eye to eye on everything
everything
Hm.
I'm not mad. You're mad. Mad projecting!
Gottem.
no argument
I take that as concession
oops, meant for
we had the same thread at least 3x now
yeah he's a jew, stop talking about this slop
I take that as concession
i handle moment to moment what's happening in the game
Stay goofy.
ask for proof
posts proof
doesn't count
I'm not whatever anon you were arguing with, just posting the source material.
Still very much not an argument.
One week Druckman says Joel was right after years of saying otherwise
The next he says the Fireflies would have had a cure if Joel didn't do it, implying he actually still thinks Joel was wrong
Is he schizophrenic?
TWD did it better.
Zombies colonized the Moon and also had close encounters of 10th kind with rabbits and Annunaki.
That makes it a more interesting philosophical question for what Joel does."
There a reason Druckman didn't make it in Hollywood.
That's correct. I wasn't arguing
No shit a cure would have worked
Explain how immediately cutting into Ellie's brain instead of doing other tests first would make a cure? Because it honestly comes off as them not having a fucking clue.
He's got too big an ego
There is a right answer, but you need white skin in order to have the higher order thinking required to contemplate concepts like love for those close to you.
I’m guessing he means something like a vaccine? But even in the world of TLOU it’s extremely debatable how effective something like that would be.
At least you wouldn’t have to worry about turning when you enter some place that still has some mild spores, but this is a world that still has a surprising amount of mutated bastards that will either cave your face in, rip your throat out or spew acid onto your face. And this sounds like something that would be mostly exclusive to the Fireflies because the world is too fucked beyond repair to wildly distribute something like it.
Smaller than yours you self important lonely prick.
Kindly kill yourself
posts snippet that says Bruce handles every moment of the game.
yeah you need help
What?
You heard us!
oops, meant for
You heard us!
like Joel heard those tapes at the hospital?
Did I ever tell you the story of the Firelies?
No, I thought not, it's not a story Cuckman would tell you.
The Fireflies bomb these mostly civilian quarantine zones and it is a common occurrence, nobody likes them
You can walk around and see a bunch of unhinged firefly graffiti saying NO FUTURE, DIE FUCKING PIG, BURN IT ALL DOWN
Then they bomb a supply truck that was taking essential supplies to a civilian zone and start gunning anyone they see, including civilians
I actually got shot by a firefly myself
Marlene said she was just defending herself by bombing and gunning civilians, I believe her
Did I mention the Fireflies got ran out of Pittsburgh by the local population because everyone hates them?
Must've slipped my mind
Then they knock me out while I'm trying to resuscitate you
Did I mention the same doctor who was SURE that vivisecting you would lead to a cure wrote he has no idea why your immunity is the way it is and that he can't replicate it in a lab?
He said so himself in notes
Then I wake up an hour later and apparently they did all those tests on you within an hour
They antagonize me, put guns to my head
Then they walk me past my equipment which makes me realize they're gonna kill me
I kill some of them and now there are no more fireflies except for a group composed of mostly non-binary teens
but i'm sure they would've made the vaccine in that ratty hospital
Humanity would've been saved if not for me stopping us both from getting killed
And they were good friends
Oh, you mean the player?
If he wanted ambiguity and moral quandary he should not: 1) have made the Fireflies incompetent terrorists; 2) the Fireflies piece of shit back stabbers; 3) the Firefly doctor a complete fucking retard who skips biopsies and blood tests and goes straight to murder and dissection; 4) the hospital the Fireflies were in an obvious unhygienic area that would not only contaminate their samples, but also did not have the necessary equipment to accomplish their goal; 5) made the fungus create zombies where infection is actually a secondary concern to just being ripped into pieces.
And that last point is the most important. If the cordyceps acted the same as in insects, where it just spread and "zombified" people to cause them to find the best spot to spread spores over a greater area, but no violence, then a vaccine is far more valuable and important. But instead it creates zombies that kill victims and hide underground where the spores will actually have a harder time spreading. A flamethrower would be a more effective tool than a vaccine under those conditions.
The audience cannot be blamed for making correct deductions of the Fireflies capabilities based on evidence the game provides. If the author wants to claim something can happen then the audience needs to be provided believable evidence or sufficient suspension of disbelief that the thing can happen. TLOU provided neither, except for those players so profoundly ignorant of medical procedures they are just as likely to believe crystal healing and foot pad detoxification. TLOU2, despite Cuckmann's trying to make the hospital look slightly more hygienic, does not solve all the other issues.
Who was the antagonist in that iteration?
Neil: Tess was the antagonist chasing Joel, and she ends up torturing him at the end of the game to find out where Ellie went, and Ellie shows up and shoots and kills Tess. And that was going to be the first person Ellie killed. But we could never make that work, so…
Bruce: Yeah, it was really hard to keep somebody motivated just by anger. What is the motivation to track, on a vengeance tour across an apocalyptic United States, to get, what is it, revenge? You just don’t buy into it, when the stakes are so high, where every single day we’re having the player play through experiences where they’re feeling like it’s tense and difficult just to survive. And then how is she, just suddenly for story’s sake, getting away with it? And yeah, the ending was pretty convoluted, so I think Neil pretty much hammered his head against the wall, trying to figure it out. I think he came up with a good, really nice, simplified version of that, and it worked out.
Yeah, it was really hard to keep somebody motivated just by anger.
neil and his fans have to be the biggest clowns in gaming history. being btfo with the game reception and again being btfo with the show reception.
it's moral quandary
No, wondering if some fucking vet surgeon and his crew of barely trained medical goons could, synthesize, mass produce, and mass distribute a "cure" to a fungal infection that almost assuredly wouldn't be biologically possible to create to begin with
you dont cure fungal infection and you cannot be immunized to it, it isn't a thing lmao
so no there is no moral quandary because the science is fucking wrong?????
None of that is an arugment btw
Legit lol'd.
Thanks.
"according to neil druckman abby totally isnt a man who he fantasized about getting fucked in the ass by" authorial intent can suck my fanon
Factoring in supply lines to his decision on whether to save his daughter or not would have been sociopathic
You're a fucking idiot. People bring up those points to counter the morons who don't understand the fundamental moral correctness of Joel saving his daughter. All the cold calculation is for the dumbfucks, much like Ellie in TLOU2, who think the Fireflies had some kind of point or correctness on their side.
There's no right answer
except for the fact that marlene literally lied to ellie about everything her whole life and gave her false hope. there is no moral quandary the fireflies were cult tier lunatics.
Uh huh
Why did they white wash him?
even if they, hypothetically, created a vaccine to a fungus (biologically impossible) they need to then mass-produce it (they can't) mass-distribute (they can't) and ALSO secure it all, you think FEDRA wouldn't come shit down their throats and steal it all in a fucking second? every roving gang would be clamoring to get what is definitely never going to be enough doses of a magic """cure""" or vaccine. Also this doesn't stop a clicker from ripping your fucking neck open and killing you lmao.
actually instead of this retarded retcon it would have been a better idea to somehow convey they could make/distribute a small amount and maybe planned to only give it to who they wanted (because that's exactly what would happen) but ultimately would fail in making any to begin with
Joel doesn't see race
Reminder that the remake actually removes violent/provocative Firefly graffiti from the game to make them look less like thugs.
This argument is stupid. The ps360 generation consoles could not handle a clean pristine shiny realistic environments. They had to make everything green and slimy looking or it would look like a cartoon.
tapes saying they already failed several times
Marlene lying about everything
fireflies pointing the gun at you at first sight
crack head den type of hospital
oh no it was morality ambiguous because if you kill enough kids you are only two weeks away from making a cure
he's jewish
NTA but he’s right. The idea that a doctor can make a mushroom zombie “cure” by removing a patient’s brain is something that would only make sense during something like the 1400s, where medicinal science wasn’t understood at all and people just threw shit at the wall to see what would stick. The infection of TLOU1 took place during what, late 2000s/early 2010s? Even though Joel wasn’t a doctor, and his memory of the old world is fading, it doesn’t take a genius to know that it’s a stupid fucking idea.
We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin
We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions.
The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen.
The cause of her immunity is uncertain
All in the same note, btw.
tapes saying they already failed several times
Marlene lying about everything
fireflies pointing the gun at you at first sight
None of this happened.
crack head den type of hospital
This is a limit of the console. Notice how the second they could make a nice surgery room they did?
Joel was right.
he's jewish
western liberal jews have absolutely nothing in common with Israeli jews that live normal lives. druckman is as much a liberal virtue signaling lunatic as they come. if anything Neil tries to make terrorists look cool.
Maybe they thought that sorta rhetoric played better closer the occupy wall st shit and trayvon martin riots.
It didn't, which is why everyone "correctly" knows that Joel morally, personally, and logically, did the right thing.
you're jewish
This is a limit of the console
Not wasn't. That's stupid.
You could say it was a budget or time constraint, but not a technical one.
None of this happened.
TLOU1 was already bottom of the barrel dogshit in every aspect, and you retards only like it either because game journalists told you it was good and "MaTuRe!" pre-gamergate, back when anyone listened to journos, or because you are a lil zoomerito too young (or not born) to play when it came out, and was told it was good by the retards who listened to the game journos.
The gameplayed sucked ass, the plot sucked ass, the pacing sucked ass, the characters sucked ass, and, I cannot stress enough, the gameplay sucked ass. 0/10 one of the worst video games ever made, everyone who likes it should kill themselves
For the PS3? Maybe, but Naughty Dog had tech wizards that would absolutely pull it off. It still looks the same on the PS4 “remaster” so it clearly wasn’t a big of a deal for ND, up until Druckmann retconned many details of the first game in a failed attempt to have his revenge storyline make any sense.
Oh okay you're right I can't believe I didn't understand my opinion.
it's moral quandary the audience is supposed to wrestle with. That's what makes the ending so great.
THAT'S WHY WE RAILROADED THE PLAYER INTO ONE OPTION AREN'T WE JUST THE BEST DEVS WATCH OUR MOVIE YOU FUCKING PAYPIG
>Marlene lying about everything
>fireflies pointing the gun at you at first sight
None of this happened.
TLOU is such a shit series. Everyone is wrong and acting on those wrong impulses at all times. Saving Ellie despite it being an extreme net negative for the entire world is at least a little sweet though. Retarded as hell when you remove the question of "maybe it wouldn't even work." But it seems like a human decision to make. Whereas 2 is just full of inhuman decisions.
For the PS3? Maybe
Don't entertain his retardation. It wasn't a constraint at all.
you're jewish
terrorists are so cool bro, che quevara was cool, the fireflies were cool, we just need to kill more people
I love these threads because i have never seen such one sided shill massacre.
The fireflies could make a cure bro
btfo by in game tapes
Neil didn't retcon anything bro
btfo by crackhead hospital
Bruce did nothing for the story bro
btfo by scrapped revenge plot interview (that neil reinstated)
Bruce was the gameplay director bro
btfo by Bruce saying he was responsible for every moment of the game
the ending was morally ambiguous bro
btfo by the fireflies pointing their guns at joel and ellie
Joel lied to ellie bro
btfo by marlene admitting she intended to kill ellie all along
how much more humiliation can shills possibly take? is this delusion? is this a fetish?
Firefly Hospital is apparently well defended and full of equipment and experienced staff
Instead of running a few blood tests to see if Ellie's blood has anti-fungal property's or maybe even antibodies that prevent full infection.. they decide to cut open her brain and kill her
They have time, staff and equipment and they forgo all of that and immediately go for the nuclear option that wouldn't work because it's a fungal infection not a virus that attacks the brain
These are supposed to be the good guys and not an incompetent band of retards
Retard that didn't play the game. They DID run these tests. Then figure out there's something about Ellie's brain structure that prevents the fungal infection (Which DOES affect the brain directly) from taking place.
>They have time
shills left the party is over.
Oh no, they actually ran blood tests, they talk about white cell counts, antigen titers in serum and cerebrospinal fluid, all that.
That's even worse, actually.
They did all that in an hour, at best.
In the time it took for Joel to wake up from being knocked out, they did all those tests, including an MRI.
Somehow.
And they decided that the best course of action, for the only immune person they know, it to kill said immune person.
Not have a little biopsy of the fungus growing in her brain.
The surgeon even mentions that the fungus isn't deep in her brain, he specifically mentions that.
But he still decides that they NEED to remove her brain because they need the fungus.
Instead of doing a biopsy, they decide to remove her brain to get the fungus.
Even though the fungus needs a living host to live, that was established. So he'd kill Ellie to get the fungus but the fungus would die, then what?
He even says he doesnt know why Ellie's infection is like that.
It's insane, really.
They DID run these tests.
oh he is still here
joel wakes up right away
they prep her for surgery
youtube.com
you lost twice. neil and his retarded edgelord revenge plot has been rejected twice. admit it you love being humiliated.
They DID run these tests. Then figure out there's something about Ellie's brain structure that prevents the fungal infection (Which DOES affect the brain directly) from taking place.
source
the voices in my head
They did all that in an hour, at best.
So they either rushed the tests and didn't do them properly, or didn't do them at all.
Irrelevant. That kind of abstract moral thinking is completely beyond the diegesis. Anyone paying attention would easily understand that just won´t factor in on Joel´s actions. No scenario leading to Ellie´s death would have been an option for him because he is not actually choosing. The choice was made when he failed to protect Sarah. That event, that trauma, defined him.
In his mind saving Ellie and saving Sarah are analogs. He just can´t let it happen again and now he has the skills to do it. Another person may have been able to make a choice but not Joel. People that talk of logic or morals can only do so because for them it is not an emotional issue. It´s easier to judge or take the moral high ground when it´s not one´s child.
April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.
We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.
Dumb fuck retards that didn't play the game.
Disregarding the vaccine, the fact that the Fireflies not only took Joel's shit but also weren't going to pay him for taking Ellie from the East Coast to the West Coast means they deserved to die.
I was always under the impression that the real moral quandary was whether it was right for Joel to lie to Ellie, both to justify what he did and to assuage her survivor's guilt since she clearly wanted to sacrifice herself to make up for all the people who died for her, including her friend who got infected. It's a pretty poignant ending too and fits the story and characters: Joel is old and jaded, understands the Fireflies probably wouldn't succeed and would rather have the happiness his surrogate daughter brings. Ellie is young and naive, clearly sees Joel as a father figure but understands how important she is and wants to change the world to prevent all the misery they've witnessed over the last year. The ending is almost them agreeing to lie to themselves as much as each other, and the audience is left to wonder what fate will bring Then the sequel comes and Joel gets beaten to death by Senator Armstrong's offspring lmao
Don't get me wrong, the Fireflies were fucking backstabbing morons and I personally think they had a one in a million chance of synthesizing a vaccine, let alone mass producing it, but the ambiguity of whether they could have done so always felt like a compounding factor more than the crux of the moral conundrum. This is because despite the vaccine being something essential for rebuilding civilization, the story beats were always focused on Joel and Ellie's personal relationship and struggles, not the fate of the world.
I distinctly remember years ago this faghot kike saying Joel made the right choice as a father,the game itself having notes stating that the fireflies had ZERO clue if what they would be doing to Ellie would produce a cure(the devs themselves noting that). And he too at the time purposely didn’t want a sequel at all and wanted the ending left open(whether or not she was full immune or if it’s a matter of time). Of course we all know his kike genes kicked in and that’s how the DLC happened. They were furious Clementine was more popular than Ellie,and filled the WOKE checkbox. Plus I’m near certain Korra had the twist “she was gay all along” ending recently,and they wanted the same for Ellie.
This. I remember that tooUp yours nigger!
They were going to execute Joel. That is not even up for debate. They walked him past his backpack and equipment to "escort him out".
ITT: media illiterate anons that missed the point entirely
I keep saying that every thread that the vaccine literally doesn't matter for the story. Like you said it's just a compounding factor. It's about the survivor's guilt and how Ellie seems to want to die for some purpose.
You are the dumbest and blackest gorilla nigger on this site huh?
This is a limit of the console.
you wot nigger. Clean textures suddenly aren't possible to do on the PS3?
Genuinely insane how they force the player into one choice,and then the sequel scolds their audience for that. Jewish retardation is STAGGERING.
nothing explains their urgency. all it says is that ellie is unique.
the cause of her immunity is uncertain
but I'm certain I need to kill her
They're just impatient retards and on the brink of destruction betting on the hope that if they get a vaccine they can suddenly become the dominant force.
Yeah it was some stupid shit and very clearly Neil being mad that most players probably weren't a sociopath like him and only killed the doctor who tried to shoot him
That's retarded. If the cause of her immunity is "uncertain" then there's gotta be dozens of tests and experiments they can try before a fucking vivisection. And I assure you, a live test subject is better than dead when you've literally got exactly one, possibly ever.
Why are people so triggered by this, the whole thing works because of this fact. If there was no cure/vaccine it would have just been a clear moral decision of taking back ellie. Jesus christ, people really are fucking stupid, criticize the story about the things that don't work...
You don't have to play it you know... It's not like it's Druckman's fault you're some turbo autist who needs to play every flavour of the week.
Dumb fuck retards that didn't play the game.
are you the same person that posted above how Bruce only did gameplay when the very quote itself says he was responsible for every moment of the game? and you said nothing when you were called out.
now again; you post something that is literally against your case. the tape confirms how ellie is unique in ways they cannot explain. yet they "need" to rush killing her for no reason at all like she's a carton of milk about to expire.
you are broken.
You don't get it. Just outright SAYING it was going to work basically makes Joel a fucking retard. It was always meant to be a choice between MAYBE saving Humanity or your surrogate daughter along with you making a choice where Ellie didn't get to.
depends.
in the game
yes
in the series
no
cure
How the FUCK are you gonna cure niggas with mushrooms growing out of their eyeballs?
It's obviously a cure for the people who just got bit, not the walking fungiheads like wtf... You people think you're so clever but are actually retarded. The whole point of the game and ending is that it's a hard choice. If you outright state "nuh uh they can't make a cure/vaccine" then you take away all agency of the characters and it's a clear choice and there is no moral choice and you might as well have not played and just watched World War Z, because that movie is perfectly clear for sub 100 iq retards like you.
More realistically it would have been a vaccine, not really a cure for the severely infected.
The fucking state of Western storytelling.
The information given was that it would work, you choose based on that information. That's the point of the game. If there are two choices and one is outright not gonna work, why make a choice?
"our intent"
The choice is yours, and yours alone.
Sorry but thanks to the MCU and ironic storytelling we CANNOT have any more nuance or genuine moments or subtlety
It was always meant to be a choice between MAYBE saving Humanity or your surrogate daughter along with you making a choice where Ellie didn't get to.
reminder that the term "surrogate daughter" is literally Neil's invention, he first came up with the term at IGDA Toronto 2013 Keynote.
because he always desperately tried to sell the idea that the fireflies were the good guys all along and wanted to guilt trip people into thinking Joel was selfish for wanting a daughter. completely ignoring how Marlene was remorseless about killing ellie.
The fucking state of Western storytelling.
The first game is a rare case of good video game story telling. then Bruce Straley the game director that shaped the story was fired and Neil's retarded revenge story has been rejected twice by both gamers and the show audience.
No, the moral quandary is better if it is a CHANCE of working because then you're not focused on the fact that:
the fireflies are incompetent
the fireflies attack civilians
the fireflies are losing in every front
the fireflies are hated across the entire united states
the fireflies took over Pittsburgh after FEDRA fucked off and the population hated the fireflies so much they drove them off and fought against the fireflies
there are, at best, 40 fireflies by the time they got Ellie
nobody would trust a mystery juice from the fireflies
the fireflies lose to anyone armed, anyone
That's it. Is it better if the cure worked? No. Because then you gotta focus on the Firefllies and they are just fucking terrorists, incompetent, loser ones.
The CHANCE of immunity takes the focus away from that fact.
no he makes the choice to fuck over humanity for your surrogate daughter even more based
ermmmm actually a cure isn't possible
think about le logistics
The story never presents the notion that a cure is not possible. The ending is only interesting in the slightest if you accept that the cure realistically could have happened. Its the whole reason Joel's choice has any impact. Imagine being too retarded to understand a game that is 50% movie cutscenes.
Then we get retards like you that act like it has to be a binary circumstance that they COULD have created the "cure" so that Joel's actions have meaning and stakes, when the reality is the "cure" probably wouldn't have changed anything with how bad off the Fireflies were.
And that last point is the most important. If the cordyceps acted the same as in insects, where it just spread and "zombified" people to cause them to find the best spot to spread spores over a greater area, but no violence,
The X Files did much more realistic cordyceps infected humans that act just like that over 30 years ago. They're compelled to get close to other people in the terminal stage, but are just sick, running fever, coughing, etc. up til that point.
I'm almost certain the Clicker noises were heavily "inspired" by the awful sounds the chick in this scene is making too (Amanda from Saw, btw.)
youtube.com
Really? In a world where your choices are total military dictatorship and terrorists who do bad stuff because they feel they are doing the right thing, you're supposed to find some absolute good option? No, that's not the story Druckman was telling him. The Fireflies are bad yes, so were FEDRA and every other group that uses force in the post apocalyptic world to get their way. That doesn't take away that the moral choice of giving the world a cure and losing your pseudo daughter or not is the one the game gives you. That is the choice. If you can't make that and you start thinking of different things why the vaccine won't work or that the fireflies wont be able to utilize it effectively, even if that might be true, then you're basically taking an easier option where you ignore the moral conundrum. And it's dishonest.
He is the writer. He can do whatever he pleases with his creation.
The story never presents the notion that a cure is not possible.
the story presents the fireflies as cultish lunatics that backstab and murder everyone. ellie literally grew up in this cult. and joel got her out. the ending is interesting because ellie blindly believed her mother (Marlene) and she was betrayed in the worst possible way. ellie says "it can't be for nothing". having your brains scooped out is worst than nothing. anything else is pretentious retcon.
In a possible future where the fireflies did have a cure they would obviously attract many new members, and of those new members more competent leaders would emerge and they would gain more power and wouldn't have to resort to violence or force to make civilians do things for them. They would do it willingly.
He is the writer
He is A writer
And he didn't write the story of TLOU1, two other people did while he handled "dialogue"
So no he can't do whatever he wants with someone else's creation
moral correctness
Assuming that there was even a 25% chance of Ellie's death producing a cure/vaccine, Joel was 100% morally incorrect by any philosophy but hedonism.
You really missed the theme of human beings doing terrible things to each other because they feel they are doing it "for the greater good"? Really? Because it was shown to you in basically every interaction you have in the game...
FEDRA is le bad
No, not really. We have a few interactions with them.
First one is them struggling but still having safe zones, rations, housing, all that.
We even see the way they deal with infected people. They don't gun them down, they have a lethal injection to mercy kill them.
The only ones that were gunned down were the infected ones who tried to run away.
They're not GOOD guys, they're guys, doing the best they can.
Is it perfect? No, but it is something.
It's a story, Druckmann, you didn't make it.
Classic jew
He is the writer.
literally every single interview confirms they made the game together and Bruce creative input in everything.
and they confirm that Neil initial revenge plot was rejected.
empireonline.com
podcasts.apple.com
jason-killingsworth.com
80.lv
youtube.com
you have been btfo at every step. Part II is not canon without half the creative minds behind it.
Yeah great guys:
hey imposed martial law and dissolved the other organs of state.[8] In the QZs, soldiers prevented citizens from leaving the city, subjected them to forced labor,[3] and when supplies were low, restricted basic food rations.[6][9] They often executed dissidents and criminals, or expelled them from the QZ. The Washington Liberation Front compared FEDRA soldiers to fascists.[5]
You never played the game, but keep parroting what you heard on Anon Babble, zoomie.
TLoU1 was amazing when it came out. Sure the gameplay was repetitive, but it was tense, and the graphics and animations are top tier even to this day. The story was a shittier version of 'The Road', but that still makes it better than the indie trash you play while jerking off to tranny porn on your second monitor.
Hey retard, if there's supposed to be no right answer then Druckmann providing this "right answer" would be ruining it then right? No? Are you a hypocrite?
NTA but I played TLoU when it came out and it wasn't that good. Sorry.
best post ITT
on the brink of destruction
other civilizations already springing back up
there's a sequel
I played it back then and thought it was an impressive technical achievement (for a ps3 game) and that's about it
prevented citizens from leaving the city, subjected them to forced labor
Well, that is just false.
The itself, not the cutscene, but the game opens with Joel trying to go out of the QZ, he shows the permit and is okay'd to go out.
Then there is a Firefly terrorist attack and they have to find another way.
So the "prevented citizens from leaving the city" is really false.
I looked into that. It is from the Drafting Notice.
As an able-bodied civilian, you are hereby issued work orders to participate in various duties relating to care of the Quarantine Zone.
IF YOU HAVE PARTICIPATED IN WORK DUTIES IN THE PAST 6 MONTHS, BRING EVIDENCE WITH YOU AND SERVICE WILL BE POSTPONED
Basically, everyone must work somehow to maintain the quarantine zone because food is scarce, the zone needs to be maintained, taken care of, you know, maintenance.
6 months. If you worked in the past 6 months, you can have your service post-poned.
How is this bad or FORCED LABOUR?
The wiki was obviously written by a retard.
I was talking about the Fireflies as a faction. In TLoU1 there was only a handful left by the time Ellie reaches them.
the government during a zombie apocalypse was...le fascist....woah.....
Honestly it's kind of weird how the sequel handles itself. First game you mostly go through abandoned environments so of course bandits and stray infected groups are the main problems, and the most fortified position you take on is the Fireflies' own unwitting last stand. Second game, you're constantly stumbling into enemy chokepoints because of the revenge plot that just happen to be strewn about every single path you take, and everything is part of several individual factions all kill-on-sight and cartoonishly murder-evil for anyone they catch to the point of two separate survivor groups being murder cults, it's just one bunch are California-tier dumbfucks that hate and torture everybody. Like, the second game existing actively dumbs down the world of the first because people just become a bunch of homicidal Mad Max wannabe groups.
they had to make everything look like it is oxidized, just ignore games like GTA5 and DMC5
oh no not...LE FASCISTS!!
Better let antifa faggots and cannibal raiders take over instead of that.
It is fucking insane to think that they would be able to create a fucking vaccine with zero to no funding (duh), against a motherfucking zombie constantly evolving virus. God TLOU sucs balls.
it was a bog standard chest-high walls third person cover shooter with stealth sections and an oscarbait story, the AAA model. you have some nice visuals and animation and nothing else. and the game isn't a broken mess, that's also notable for a major gen 7 release.
what a pointless thread. part II is not canon. neil has been btfo twice.
zombies
It's not the fireflies who were retarded, it's me who's retarded!
Uh... thanks for the update, Neil. Hope you finally make enough money to live your dream of being a hollywood jew so you can fuck children.
Based Deacon would have dumped Ellie in a forced labor camp 5 minutes after they were out of the city
The problem is not that people can't overlook plot inconsistencies for the sake of a story
the problem is the story is baby's first trolley problem and baby's first revenge bad story
when the story is fucking stupid people start to notice and nitpick all the other little problems
and it's endlessly funny to me that they could have avoided all this by just making Abby the daughter of someone Joel killed before the first game started, they didn't HAVE to hang their hat on the end of TLOU
Neil's original pitch for TLOU WAS the revenge story.
That's the problem.
Bruce said "no, that's fucking retarded".
The original pitch was:
Tess had her family member get killed by/because of Joel
Tess would travel across the country to chase Ellie and Joel
Sounds familiar?
Even if that was true (it isn't), there are surely better fucking ways to make brain tests than KILLING HER, AND DISECTING HER. Don't you hate it when you have a brain scan, and the doctor opens your skull with a claymore?
I dunno about you guys, but if I were a doctor who had the only immune person in the world for a disease that causes zombification, I would DEFINITELY kill that person.
I would NOT do a biopsy to get the fungus and then grow that fungus on a petri dish, in a controlled lab enviroment so that I would then have the fungus and the girl immune, so then I could work out what is going on.
I WOULD after ONE HOUR of getting the ONLY IMMUNE PERSON, I would open her fucking skull and extract her brain.
And yes, I know that the fungus needs a living host and that I would kill the fungus by killing the host but...
I'm a doctor.
I know things.
Biopsy is not one of these things, but I know things.
People have to subsist on the idea that arbitrary drama denotes arbitrary things because it's a fantastical plot where what the writer says, goes, but frankly any critical analysis whatsoever of the story basically makes most of the franchise shit itself just like the rest of Naughty Dog's works. Amy Hennig or not, you don't think critically about Uncharted because they're action-adventure with modern Indiana Jones shit, so how little logic some of these mystical artifacts and the crazy shit have is brushed aside. The Jak games and Crash games basically had internal logic rather than realistic, and Jak 3 rushed itself super hard so that falters a bit.
Meanwhile TLOU is so dramatic and award-bait bullshit but people act like it's so serious and realistic and shit, when at the end of the day the gore, characters and attempted rape were basically what's pushing that; the plot is hilariously contrived video game gobbledegook like Uncharted otherwise that's supposed to be enjoyed on its own merits rather than held on a pedestal. But Druckmann just doesn't get that and thinks it's elevating him to Hollywood writer tier - which is actually even worse than simply huffing one's own farts as a game writer.