Was Ellie right or wrong to forgive Abby?

Was Ellie right or wrong to forgive Abby?

It made no sense for her to realize the futility of her revenge only after killing a billion unrelated people and dogs.

ham fisted cuck writing

forgive Abby

She forgave Joel not Abby, seriously it isn't a particularly hard game to understand, why are gamers so incapable of interpreting any art form?

It's such a dumb anti-ending that was made entirely to spite the playerbase.

Being this retarded

The flashback literally outright STATES and SHOWS that Ellie forgave Joel before the game began and was willing to try and start over with him
It was never about forgiving Joel because she already forgave her
But your dumbass was too stupid to realize that I suppose

Is it not stupid to travel across the entire country on foot for vengeance, to willingly choose not to kill the person you set out to kill?

That's like going all the way to the Casino just to forgive Benny shooting you in the head.

If you hate the ending or not hinges on if you're a sad pathetic little man who cannot understand the concept of forgiveness and that hate only leads to destruction
No these are the same kiddies who just wanted Ellie to go Super Saiyan and kill Abby with a Kamehameha. They would've praised it as the best game of all time too sadly.

The flashback literally outright STATES and SHOWS that Ellie forgave Joel

No, she wanted to try doing so, and as you say, the game literally states this.

Maybe she should have forgiven her before getting her fingers bitten off and also killing hundreds of people. That is why it is dumb. It is because she gave up right at the fucking finish line. Not like she gave it a long thought after seeing what could become of the people she has left, or that she still had a community to be a part of, or that it would cause untold collateral damage. She basically reaped all of the consequences and got none of the benefit.

I would have been perfectly okay with Ellie "letting her go" if she didn't come to that conclusion while drowning her.
I do not understand why they needed an epic CQC button prompt fight at the end. The first game didn't make you fight Marlene 1v1 for Ellie's body. There is nothing mechanically interesting about it. Was this some insecure attempt to not be a "walkable movie?"
Narratively it would have been so much better to show just how completely deflated Ellie's thirst for revenge became when she saw Abby's skeletor of a body, unwilling and unable to even fight back.

it's right, because at the end of the day he was a wh*te male and that's ok sweety and if you disagree you're an incel nazy grifter

The ending would've had far more impact if Ellie kills Abby, goes home, and realizes she has nothing, realizing that revenge destroyed her life. That would've portrayed and executed Cuckmann's message far better than whatever he was trying to do.

The cycle of revenge does not stop with Ellie sparing Abby. Okay so Abby is spared. And the other 100 random unnamed grunts that she spared? The doctor Joel killed was also some unnamed grunt, and then Abby comes out of nowhere. It's funny how in the retarded message Cuckmann was trying to pull off about stopping the cycle of revenge, he doesn't realize the irony that there is a non zero chance that some random kid might just kill Ellie in the future because his dad died, on the quest of revenge towards Abby.

It is gay as fuck that there is no option to spare Abby. A traditional game would have given you the option to spare her, and kill her. The decision to spare Abby doesn't feel natural, it was executed so poorly that it doesn't even feel like it is Ellie's choice, and neither is it the player's choice. It is Cuckmann inserting his retarded ideas into the medium.

All the hollywood tier scenes, dialogue, acting and music made me feel repulsed. They tried so hard to make a movie game and that shit does not belong in gaming at all. Then the retard got humbled at the infamous incident.

If you support this game then you're a massive retard. End of discussion.

abby is an ogre and I hated her, Ellie is me, I experience all the same things as ellie and even got manipulated by playing as abby. Still wanna mutilate her like I did all the mooks in that hotline miami max payne 3 ass game. I enjoyed killing. I would've like to shotgun dismember abbys leg

100 random unnamed grunts that she spared

that she killed* whoops

Exactly, that's what the ugliness of revenge is
She tried to do it and suffered for it. No happy ending for her mistakes

You clearly haven't played the game so I won't entertain this anymore

Yeah well she started the cycle of revenge with a bunch of other people and who is to say Abby wouldn't try some shit? Not like Ellie is magic.
It is dumb. It is a bad ending. If you defend it you just wanna feel smart but you're actually a midwit.

It sounds like you're actually a midwit who's mad that the hero didn't win in the end. Typical low IQ behavior.
Sad to say but the world isn't fair.

The hero didn't win in the end

1. Ellie isn't a hero
2. Her decision only proves she is as dumb as you
I already said, this "cycle of revenge" nonsense doesn't work when you go out and kill 100 people on your way to forgiving the one person who actually harmed your life and killed the person you love.

MUH LUDO NARRATIVE DISSONANCE

It's almost as if a story like this doesn't work for a fucking video game because the only way this story works is if she walks across the country and then forgives Abby, but you have to have action set pieces in your action game so it just ruins whatever message you wanna have because you can't pretend like the action set pieces didn't happen.

I can tell by your leftist approach of "writing the other guy in caps to make yourself sound reasonable" has you very upset

She tried to do it and suffered for it

So wouldn't it be better exemplified if she actually killed her and gained nothing but two missing fingers and an empty house? "Le cycle of revenge," where any triumph turns to ash supposed to actually have the act of revenge fulfilled.
Like you niggers are pretending that Ellie not finishing off Abby was some divine intervention and not a conscious choice made by her. This isn't "heh life ain't all revenge and pretzels, kid" This is the writer choosing to make Ellie let go of her obsession at the moment in time where it would look the most demented, explicitly to manufacture additional woes and I'm assuming save Abby for potential sequel because ND of course knew she would fan's favorite.

I don't think it's OOC for Ellie at all, considering the state Abby was in and she was looking after a kid. Yes she's a fictional character and the writer's ultimately decide what she'll do but that doesn't make it unrealistic. And I don't think the game wants you to think she forgave Abby she never even learned the real reason she killed Joel, it was more like a moment of acceptance and letting go..?

EXCUSE ME MA'AM, I JUST WANTED TO TAKE THIS TIME WHILE WE WERE RUNNING AWAY FROM A HORDE OF ZOMBIES TO LET YOU KNOW, MY NAME IS TOMMY "MY BROTHER KILLED THE FIREFLIES" MILLER, AND THIS IS MY BROTHER JOEL "THE MAN WHO MURDERED THE ENTIRE FIREFLY CULT" MILLER. I ALSO SOMETIMES CALL HIM JOEL "THE GUY WHO KILLED EVERYONE IN THAT FIREFLY CAMP" MILLER BUT THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT, WHAT WAS YOUR NAME MISS STRANGER?

AND DON'T FORGET YOUR BIGOT SANDWICHES

forgive

She didn't

The whole encounter was retarded. She should have just left Abby hanging.

1. Ellie isn't a hero

And neither is fucking Abby. What the fuck is this slop made for? For sadists? For cucks?

It is made for the "video games are art" crowd and it really doesn't want to be a video game because it goes of its way to act as a deconstruction of video games but because they're a corporate product they still have to operate as a video game which completely undermines the entire story.

TLOU also had a complete bullshit ending that made no sense, but in that case Neil Druckmann was smart enough to use smart sounding science words to trick dumb fucks in Plebbit and Anon Babble who can’t realize how absolutely fucking stupid the Fireflies’ plan was
He got cocky in TLOU2 and thought he could write backwards from the premise again, only this time he couldn’t rely on the burgers' lack of basic science education to cover up his plot holes

And I once again point out that the ideal way to show this would be to not have any fight at all.
This isn't about it being out of character. The sequence of events is just an asinine "long-awaited rematch" moment that didn't need to exist. You are a narrative experience first and foremost; shut the fuck up and direct a cutscene with your fancy-ass motion capture. Literally just have a human freak out, where Ellie sees this roided nightmare that lived in her head reduced to a dazed and dehydrated girl unable to even get up to fight her, crawling towards Lev. There wouldn't be any anger, just despair over throwing everything away for this cadaver that destroyed itself on her own. This is clearly what they were going for to begin with. But this doesn't fucking work when Abby can immediately pounce and fight back. If the Abby, who didn't kill Dina simply because the tranny kid intervened is still there, why wouldn't Ellie go through with this? Why would it matter what she thought about Joel? It's undeniably written as an obsession over being put into a powerless situation to begin with. Ellie's revenge is clearly irrational. It's a giant chip on her shoulder. Shaking it off WHILE strangling Abby after she beat her in a fight is just nonsense, not out of character, just written so fucking badly, that at least for it fumbled the entire game. Which is in itself impressive to this day. What a shit ending can do to a mf.

Abby is a man-looking dyke, which means she should be left unscathed while Ellie is left miserable. Ellie trying to play the guitar before realizing she can't with her missing fingers is the telling part. These freaks get off on that shit, seeing injustices go unpunished and their kind getting away with it.

Ellie should've just finished it.

I remember when the game came out, some anon here posted a comic-like drawing of how it should have ended. It showed Ellie executing Lev the same way Abby did to Joel. Unironically, the perfect ending for this game, shame I didn't get to download that image to post it here.

ENOUGH
NEXT GUY

Back in the good ol’ days people actually liked moral ambiguity and nuance, there not being a “right” side just two sides. People really liked Joel for this, they liked how the game ended. But now instead of praising Joel and his compelling character motivations for saving Ellie, they headcanon the fireflies into being totally evil terrorists that would have killed Ellie for nothing—and that’s kind of a microcosm of some people’s viewpoints, they don’t want the “other side” to be sympathetic

And this game is refreshingly video game-y, not because of the storytelling but for the actual gameplay. I went from TLOU2 to RDR2 and it WAS painful jumping from a game with high energy gameplay to a game like RDR2 where even in gameplay moments, if I don’t exactly follow what the game wants me to do I’ll get a Game Over screen.

Standing there, she realized that she was just like her

i.4cdn.org/wsg/1745761311961379.webm

tranny game

Hello I am infested and I am deathly afraid of aquariums

which means she should be left unscathed

can't believe "people" have played and seriously talk about this goddamn abomination.

They are making three seasons of TV out of this abomination on HBO. 8 Emmys so far. I think we are justified.

Cleared for active duty because Ellie needs some more guilt in a couple of days

If the message is that revenge is bad and destroys everything, shouldn't Ellie have died? Why didn't Neil commit to the message?

The time to forgive Abby was before abandoning her family to hunt the bitch down. Now she's lost everyone and doesn't even get vengeance.

Ugh, I HATE this game!

I hate it so much I'm gonna enter a thread about it that I hate and let people know how much I hate it!!!!!

Wrong from the start.
You could tell her heart was not in it when Tommy came to her place, but she went anyway because she felt she had to. At one point she should've realised she hasn't got what it takes to juggle all these obligations. She tried to put a finger in everything but was half-arsed doing it - so in the end she couldn't kill the one she's supposed to kill, she went back to an empty home, and lost a finger. She got what she deserved.

I'll kill many people including a pregnant woman
I'll get my friend killed
I'll put my wants ahead of my pregnant girlfriend
I'll let my uncle figure lose his eye
I'll leave my girlfriend and stepchild behind
I'll kill even more people
I'll get my fucking fingers bitten off
But actually finishing what I started mere seconds away from doing it after all that is where I draw the fucking line because I'm not like that.

She got what she deserved.

She deserved to be brutally murdered

Why was Tommy such a faggot?
He should be wanting revenge above all else but he just becomes a limp dick after Joel dies and doesn't wanna go

Don't get married ammirite fellas

It's wild that they thought anyone would care about Abby whatsoever after she killed the most popular character. Not only that but then she can just gun down people she's known her entire life.

When it's not cramming the story down your throat it's actually a pretty enjoyable TPS.

It made no sense for her to realize the futility of her revenge only after killing a billion unrelated people and dogs.

didn't abby let her and dina go after she beats them? i feel like half the retards in this thread didn't play the game

Tommy rode with Joel for twenty years after the end of the world, and they both did horrible things. He probably knew it was only a matter of when, not if. Still, when he nutted up he basically destroyed the WLF all on his own.

Yeah, after Lev said "don't," a millisecond before she would have sliced Dina's neck open after hearing she was pregnant. This wasn't Abby's mercy, but Lev's.
Maybe replay the game?

This, it was obvious before she left that she wasn't doing it purely out of revenge anymore, or at least not entirely, she was doing it more out of desperation to finally get some kind of "closure" to her traumas and finally be able to move on

doesn't matter since she didn't do it anyway

she was doing it more out of desperation to finally get some kind of "closure" to her traumas and finally be able to move on

also known as revenge

Yeah, that's called revenge.

Yeah and Ellie had her Joel porch flashback which served the same purpose as Lev's ""don't"

This wasn't Abby's mercy

also remember she let them go based on a "don't" right after she found out 2 of her friends one of them was her lover were dead after coming back from 2 other friends dying and almost dying herself, get a grip retard

Think the game would have been more impactful if players were given the choice like in so many other games.

game ellie when she gets told that dina will have a baby

literal meltie

show ellie when she gets told that dina will have a baby

ohhhh... I'm gonna be a dad!

You can't make this shit up, how do you manage to be worse than fucking tlou2

See The roided-up dyke *must* live, and you *must* eat your heart out in misery.

actually, nah. that's enough murdering rampage for me. i don't think it's worth it anymore. i can handle the guilt of all those other murders but this last one is too much. oh well.

She wouldn't sound so tired and hopeless about it if it were the case, that fire in her died in Seattle, in all of Santa Barbara's section she makes killing Abby sound more like a chore she feels like she NEEDS to do because she thinks it will make her make the pain stop, rather than something she actually wants

It absolutely matters. This wasn't live and let live. This was Abby not wanting to look like a complete bloodthirsty psychopath in front of Lev. Replay the game. She was fucking giddy when she heard Dina was pregnant, since that would have been a double whammy for Mel.

Seriously replay the game before calling anyone a retard, autsimo. Tommy throws himself on her before could fire, which what should clearly wanted to do. There was no 'dont' it was clear scramble. Lev shot Tommy right after.

shit writting, that's what happens when the guy that makes the designs of monsters and and enviroments tries to write the plot of the characters.
NEXT GUY!

she thinks balancing the scales will free her from her bullshit and balancing the scales means enacting revenge. you can put whatever pretty poetic bow you want on it but it's still putting a bow on revenge

This wasn't Abby's mercy, but Lev's.

Lev didn't forced her to let her go, she could have just sliced Dina's throat anyways, the choice was ultimately still hers to take

Revenge doesn't have to be something you enjoy and take glee in.

people who talk like you fail to see the picture from abby's pov, her intention don't mean shit if she didn't follow through, she didn't kill dina nor ellie her friend killers after she went through shit for 3 straight days, at that point she only had lev. and no this doesn't mean ellie didn't go through shit either, i m just saying i understand why ellie let her go at the end and if you fail to see it maybe play the game huh ?

I would have been fine with ur scenario, but to me it was good they fought. Ellie seems to “forget” what she was there for, spun around by Abby’s appearance and her child companion. Ellie gets ready to board the boat, but then she looks at her blood and has an intrusive memory of Joel’s face. The background track starts turning dark. Ellie turns to face Abby “I can’t let you leave.” I liked it. I would have felt something was missing if they didn’t fight. Does Abby’s appearance and how it, probably, impacted Ellie undercut by how she still had the strength to “pounce”? Not to me, she is still weakened but Abby is a fighter and she’s not fighting just for herself it makes sense she would desperately fight back. but Ellie still overpowers her.

That line about Abby not killing Dina was written as a way to justify Ellie wanting revenge, but Abby still showed mercy despite all her friend’s deaths and that boy that stopped her was there. Ellie’s revenge was irrational but I don’t know…I can just see this situation happening. Ellie wasn’t deranged she has complex emotions and this is a year after the trauma of Seattle. Ellie has Abby completely at her mercy but her rage breaks, she isn’t thinking about what Abby did to Joel she starts thinking about that moment on the porch and how she wanted to forgive him. To me it’s like Ellie remembered what was truly important to her, and that was she didn’t want vengeance for him she wanted peace with him or something like that?

But I think the game should have given the player the choice to kill Abby, and then release the statistics of how much did it. Although my brain can kind of see sparing her in a compelling light, it would have also been compelling to kill her. And it would be very interesting to see how many people would have.

Lev didn't forced her to let her go

He absolutely did. What you think it doens't count because he didn't physically stopped Abby from slashing Dina's throat?

fail to see the picture from abby's pov

Why should I care about the villain's point of view?

just a chill guy no flaws no nothin'

I really don't hate the ending that much. My beautiful daughterwife Ellie being portrayed as a lesbian (she's not, we have sex all the time) is much more angering.

I think its less about right and wrong and more about what Ellie could live with. She lost pretty much everyone important to her, except Tommy (and its implied Maria is fucking furious at her which is why she and Dina left). I think she realized that if she killed Abby she wouldn't "deserve" to be able to go home or try to find a new one. Do I think it was stupid? Yes. Always a change Abby or Lev could come after her

There was no reason for this guy to even be in the game. Just there to get shot in the head and be immediately forgotten.

How? by just calling out her name and doing some puppy eyes? if Abby was really that much of a remorseless bitch she wouldn't have cared at all and still would have killed both Dina and Ellie

Only right answer. I would have loved killing Abby.

Why should I care about the villain's point of view?

explain how abby is the villain without resorting to Anon Babblefaggotry

I felt so bad for that guy, yeah he was rude but he was drunk, appeared to give a sincere apology and gave her fucking steak sandwiches I dont know much about their HQ but I'm sure steak is a luxury.

Just make it a choice. Ellie can be sad at home because she lost everyone either way.

To me it’s like Ellie remembered what was truly important to her, and that was she didn’t want vengeance for him she wanted peace with him or something like that?

That's nice by itself but she went on a psychotic murder spree to reach this conclusion

balancing the scales

She already pretty much killed everyone Abby ever cared about with the expection of just Lev, at least Ellie still had Dina, JJ and Tommy

She killed the hero of the first game. Explain to me how she ISN'T the villain without resorting to moral relativism.

i didn't think someone would bite on something so obvious but someone did. nice job.

What the fuck does it matter what was in Abby's POV, you autismo? The entire point is that nothing in Ellie's decision-making about letting Abby go at the end of her genocide run would include Abby letting them go back there simply because it was Lev's doing. If Ellie believed that she owed Abby and they were square, she wouldn't go after her to begin with. You already forgot what was the argument even about, you nigger?

TLOU also had a complete bullshit ending that made no sense

Part 1's ending made perfect sense. There was zero proof that the operation, even if it was successful, would have led to a cure. It wasn't even a SOMA-coin-flip, it was a "maybe we can do something with this." It also was build up to for the entire game, with Joel going from "don't you ever say her name" to "I think you two would have been friends." The only thing they should have changed was Joels answer at the end

Swear to me everything you said is true

No

...okay.

She killed the hero of the first game.

who killed her father, joel is no hero thats the whole fucking point of the first game no one is

joel is no hero thats the whole fucking point of the first game no one is

No, that's your revisionist history Cuckmann.

TLoU1

Ellie outright asks Joel if he's telling the truth

Joel has no poker face and says "Uhhh yeah, I promise..."

Ellie looks dead-eyed for a few seconds

It's obviously to literally everyone in the audience that she knows he's lying or at least hiding something

...Ok

She copes

TLoU2

JOEL YOU STOLE MY PURPOSE FROM ME I HAD NO IDEA FUCK YOOOOOOU

I'm not crazy, right? My impression of the original ending is she 100% knew, but accepted it.

and she still had nightmares and whatnot for over a year because she felt the job wasn't finished

if Ellie believed that she owed Abby and they were square, she wouldn't go after her to begin with

holy fuck, play the game you Anon Babbletard faggot

after the countless of people each of these cunts killed this scene has no relevance.

No, I think the entire point of her hesitating before saying "okay" was that she knew he was full of shit. Thats also why she turned around to face the seat when he was driving them away from the hospital and he said something like "theres a whole lot more out there and it hasnt done any good." The changes made in Part 2 were just stupid.

Well most of her kills was self defense right? And the times that it wasn’t ie Nora weighed especially heavily on her. Owen has this long speel about how he was killed dozens of Scars, but then seeing a defeated elderly Scar unable to fight back is what disillusioned him on the war. So there is this backdrop theme of like…self defense kills vs cruelty? Ellie could have shanked Abby while her back was turned but she forces her to fight back by threatening Lev, why does she do that?

And Seattle still traumatized her greatly. In her journal she talks about how she thinks about Seattle on a daily basis, she doesn’t say she thinks about Nora or Mel or anything specific she says Seattle in general so yeah all that bloodshed did weigh on her

She's been gay since the dlc for the original in 2014.

i doubt she imagined the extent of what joel did at the hospital. she just thought he isn't telling her all the details and that the fireflies were still working away at the hospital

That was a lot of people's interpretation. That her going along with the lie because she loved Joel so much.
And then of course Neil ruined it

Well most of her kills was self defense right?

Nah she's the one pushing forward into hostile territory

Game should have 2 endings depending if you stealth or not.

go on a killing spree

Abby gets killed

be stealth

Abby is spared

Forgiveness is never the answer. Spite for people who have wronged you should be your driving force.

What a load of bullshit, the game makes great effort to make the ending morally ambiguous. Marlene had every right to shoot Joel at the parking lot, but she still spares him and it costs her her life. “I’m not about to kill the only man who could possibly understand the weight of this choice.” They even have the doctor’s death be this like canon event that always happens, clearly as a plot device for the second game. What is revisionist is the gamers trying to make Joel 100% in the right which absolutely ruins this character they seem to love, his choosing Ellie over the vaccine is beautiful and compelling.

no this is retarded, this is the dishonored way the worst thing about that game

I suggest you go and watch the scene right now. Come back and tell me with a straight face that Lev didn't prevent her from slicing Dina's throat right then and there.

if Abby was really that much of a remorseless bitch

Who said anything about Abby being a remorseless bitch? I am not arguing in any instance that Abby is a psychopath only that Lev cockblocked her from revenge and she relented, explicitly to not create a giant fucking rift between them two.

I see you ran out of arguments. No wonder since you have clearly forgotten what you were even answering to begin with.

To get at Abby, they’re shooting her on sight they don’t know if she’s a Scar or a scavenger or anything which is why she isn’t having some moral quandary over every gunfight

you get to choose whether abby lives or dies

ending is the exact same because empty

woah dude cinema moment and less bitching

I have never played this game and don't get why everyone hates/loves it. Based on the picture I don't think she should have forgiven him because he looks like a faggot.

they're forcefully defending their territory. ellie is the aggressor

Shit, you are right. A small indie studio under a small Eastern European publisher wouldn't be able to create two separate endings based on that decision. It's never been done before.

I see you ran out of arguments. No wonder since you have clearly forgotten what you were even answering to begin with.

classic Anon Babblefaggotry, why would i argue with someone who didn't play the game, you spew shit that make it obvious. guess you win this one. here's a (you) for your effort.

Well from Ellie’s perspective it should be pretty obvious why there is a distinction between these armed soldiers hunting her down to kill her with dogs that will maul her if they sniff her, and like torturing a defenseless Nora. Owen killed a bunch of Scars, even though they’re just defending their home and people too, but he couldn’t bring himself to kill the old man Scar

why would i argue

Exactly what I said, you are clearly not even arguing anymore. Just buttfucking a strawman.

Abby and Ellie destroy each other for revenge

The WLF and Seraphites destroy each other for revenge

wowwwww....

Spoken like a true lefty

Yeah nice try

But I think the game should have given the player the choice to kill Abby, and then release the statistics of how much did it

What is this Telltale? That's cringe, and you know they wouldn't do it. In principle, there is nothing wrong with the ending, but the presentation and the choice of how elements slap together are atrocious. Like, you never find it strange how Lev doesn't say a single word in it? He is passed out, but why? Why is such an essential character to Abby's moral compass, and let's be frank, how the clashes between Abby and Ellie played out has nothing to contribute except to be a lever?
I'm more wondering what kind of QA they do if no one ever from the testers ever complained about the ending. Surely, fucking surely someone did. Or maybe they don't test the endings, that would run the risk to influence the 'auteur'

He is passed out, but why?

I mean, they had been starved and hung from that pole for days if not longer (I think one of the prisoners you rescue says its been a while) and he's like 13, so of course he's going to be barely responsive

Adulthood is realizng that what Abby did to Joel was kind of okay.

abby has cutscene asspull plot armor because cuckman fetish, which did not even bother with different endings

I wasn’t expecting it but it would have been a nice treat, and kind of a nod to the players that couldn’t sympathize with Abby. If they’re not doing a third part I kind of have a why not? opinion on their being a choice and I’m mostly interested in knowing how many would have killed her.

And I don’t know what Lev would have added to the scene “S-stop fighting… this isn’t who you are…” some shit ass shit and have that be the reason Ellie stopped, this was between Ellie and Abby Lev wasn’t even introduced when Abby killed Joel which is what this grudge was about

after killing a billion unrelated people [along the way]

I generally ignore the gameplay kills
Basically only named enemies count, so near the end when she kills those two guys after getting stuck in the trap, those kills count. Owen and Mel counted. I didn't see the end as Ellie forgiving Abby, I saw it as Ellie just giving up. She's more sad and burnt out than angry at that point, and she sees herself with a knife at some kid's throat and wonders if she should go through with it. I think she doubts that killing Abby will quiet her psyche. I don't think any of that means she forgave Abby, just that she gets to the end and then doesn't have the motivation to go through with it

why do people find Owen likable?

impregnated Mel cheating on her before baby is even out

stupid ass moralfag convinced the group to spare Ellie and Tommy and now they're all dead

They worked backwards from

We want our story to be progressive and have a Lesbian protagonist.

Lets have a plot line about how she and her wife have a baby on the way.

But wait Lesbians can't get each other pregnant, especially in the post-apocalypse with no artificial insemination.

Quick invent a sperm donor.

Attacking Ellie was really stupid too, he risked Mel and his baby just because he didn’t want to tell Ellie where Abby was (scar island) even though Abby can take care of herself

He's not likable, he's relatable
I think most people have loved someone that they couldn't be with for some reason, in Owen's case because Abby is garbage as a partner. She's not the same girl Owen knew before she lost her dad but he still wants that girl. Mel is just a pastime and birth control would be nearly non-existent so he ended up a father, not unlike many men of 100 years ago

I'm not asking for biological reasons why he is passed out. From a narrative standpoint, why does he do nothing but be a lever for Ellie to make Abby fight her?

And I don’t know what Lev would have added to the scene

Easy and tangible justification for Ellie to let Abby go beyond the lackluster porch flashback. Literally make Ellie be distinctly aware that Lev is the reason Abby didn't kill her and Dina, and have Lev freak out, drawing attention to himself, fucking screaming and wailing. Literally make a reverse of Dina's situation. Hammering it even more that what Ellie is doing is indeed "bicycle of violins." The ending is so shit that you practically write a dissertation on how to vitalize it without adding literally any new elements.

If they’re not doing a third part I kind of have a why not?

I don't think they knew it at the time.

opinion on their being a choice and I’m mostly interested in knowing how many would have killed her.

I think you can kind of gauge it by the reaction the game itself no. I mean, that's not loud minority case.

Three

Original stuff, then?

Spoilering in case anyone hasn't seen the movie.
100% should've gone the I Saw the Devil route. Main character becomes a monster to punish the person that did them wrong as revenge and then is just left with their grief and everything they've done in the pursuit of revenge. Way more interesting than "nooo i can't kill her i need to end the cycle"

Supposedly. Might even consult Neil on what his ideas were but I kind of doubt it. I think showrunners desperately want to write their own riff.

I think you can kind of gauge it by the reaction the game itself no. I mean, that's not loud minority case.

I’m really not so sure about that after scrolling through steam reviews or how many awards it won or how popular pro TLOU2 videos have been cropping up more and more, the amount of people that spared her might be kind of illuminating but alas we’ll never know

There's no right or wrong. It's just what she did. Probably the best thing about the narrative was that the entire thing admitted that there's no right or wrong past the subjective. I think the point of the game had nearly nothing to do with revenge contrary to what so many people seem to think (retaliation is basically just the engine that keeps the plot moving). It's actually that there are no villains or good guys, no right or wrong, just people acting in their own interests to one degree or another. Joel murdered Abby's father (and shattered one promising avenue for the salvation of humanity) for Ellie? or for himself, to keep his pseudo daughter when he got a second chance to prevent this one from being taken away from him. Joel and Abby are neither villains nor heroes, they are survivors

Whenever she's on screen she inspires me to lift

You mean by the amount of people that don’t play games claiming it to be the best game ever when it has an absolutely shit story and gameplay as stale as month old bread?

Remind me, didnt Ellie pick that fight when Abby's back was turned?

Druckman is a hack. He is apeing kojima, poorly.

theres no right or wrong bro

but joel definitely fucked over mankind

This is why TLOUfags are such massive retards they will unironically say shit like this and not see a single problem and even defend the writing of the game until they go mental.

pro TLOU2 videos have been cropping up more and more

In your imagination? lmao

The gameplay is a ton of fun what do you mean, I played it for the first time on steam and I left it a positive review I’ve never left a positive review for any other game and I’ve played most of the mainstream hits

Deciding not to kill someone isn't the same as forgiving them.

From what I remember, Ellie basically threatened to slit Lev's throat if Abby didn't fight and thats the only reason she agreed, I think she even tried begging Ellie to let them go.

It’s not, it’s literally just a generic zombie tps same as the last game.

inb4 play on grounded

Yes you have said that before go back to eating shit and making webms.

Well that’s what happened, Joel chose Ellie over the world that’s why the ending is so beloved and talked about

people are still talking about p2 5 years later

I Neil

Joel chose Ellie over the world

There was no world, they didn’t have a chance of finding a cure and this has been explained to you and others dozens if not hundreds of times. Yet you keep desperately trying to push this retarded narrative as if people will just ignore the glaring incompetence of the fireflies.

I honestly dislike the game (I played it twice on PS4 and once on PC so I could shit on it more accurately) but it absolutely feels good to play. The issue is that the gameplay (or at least, the most optimal way to play the game in terms of resource conservation) is to just lure people one by one and slaughter the entire map, which gets boring after a while. There are some places where you're forced into combat, but I felt as though more often than not I was just killing everybody, because it was way too easy to make it 75% of the way through an area, get spotted and then have to fight your way out from the middle of everyone

Still, this is all dwarfed by the initial reaction to leaks and later the release.
This wasn't chuds mad at pronounces on Twitter. ND in literal lock down, on socials, Neil directly plug in into copium canister, damage control from every industry site. And I know we are specifically talking about the ending but it's hard to separate. 10 ways to kill Abbie montage with 3 mill views should tell as much.

That is so fucking wrong, I played Dying Light Zombie Island whatever it’s called. All SHIT compared to TLOU2, the game I played right after TLOU2 was RDR2 and now Witcher3…holy fuck it makes me want to go back to TLOU2 gameplay. It’s so good. Grounded is probably shit if the resources are so scarce and too unforgiving with stealth

You didn't understand what I wrote
I didn't imply that murdering Abby's father or destroying the Firefly immunity hope was right or wrong. I was speaking the language of moralfags (which you appear to be) in an attempt to show that on their moral grounds Joel is a selfish villain. Basically either everyone is a villain or no one is, and things make more sense if no one is

Please link me to the part in Part 1, it's DLC or Part 2 where it is explained that the surgery would have led to a cure.

I don't know but it sure made for a dogshit ending. The game tries its best to make the player like Abby but the attempt is so hamfisted most only hate her more. What broke it for me was the scene where Abbys father, Dr.Mengele was actually revealed to be a heckin' wholesome chungus who loves animals.

So Ellie has a woman moment, tskes a hostage, starts shit, then has another woman moment and doesnt finish it letting Abby off witb another vendetta against her that'll end with another one of ellie's friends or whatever dying some day
No wonder twitteroids love this garbage

The game never tells you that though, and the whole sequence ends with the firefly leader sparing your life. It’s pretty obvious what the narrative is telling you, if they wanted you to think that there would be at least 1 collectible or 1 dialogue and people who say there are are frankly just wrong upon even a surface level look into their source

I like how you specifically choose first person games while ignoring shit like Resident Evil, Days Gone, or State of Decay.

holy fuck it makes me want to go back to TLOU2

Shills really ate the most inorganic posters out there because that has nothing to do with what is being talked about that’s like arguing about how bad high fructose corn syrup is and then saying “man I could sure go for a refreshing Coca Cola”.

Maybe they have good gameplay too cus I haven’t played any of those, but TLOU2 gameplay is legitimately at least 9/10 very well crafted

You were though, you were trying to be subtle about it in hopes you could set this trap and get someone to call you out for it and then spring it to make it look like they’re doing what you are. It’s like claiming to be unbiased while accusing someone you don’t like of being a pedophile.

either everyone is a villain or no one is

No there are very clear lines, but you need to create this false dichotomy since it’s easier than arguing how people can be worse or better than others given you know the fireflies are worse by miles.

The game never tells you that though

There are collectibles and little bits of information to show how the fireflies are constantly fucking up and the hospital is a dilapidated shit hole that cuckman keeps making look cleaner in every remake to the point where it looks too clean for a pre-apocalyptic world.

and the whole sequence ends with the firefly leader sparing your life

You mean her telling you she isn’t going to pay you and to fuck off without your gear (which is a death sentence in the city)

Not him, but I don't agree that the gameplay is that good. The encounters are poorly designed in my opinion (get dropped into an area where you suddenly have to take out or sneak past a bunch of absolute retards), and most of the rest of the gameplay is running around spamming the interact button. The hand to hand combat is horribly bad, just dodge and one attack. Honestly I felt like I was playing TLoU: Uncharted 4 half the time, and I don't like Uncharted

They definitely are not worse by miles, they’re just doing what they think is right creating a vaccine is purely selfless and to them makes all the hardships they’ve been through worth it in the end. Joel was acting selfishly, but it’s the only reasonable way his character would act considering his arc and how the fireflies wouldn’t even let him have closure. Also the game implies most of the characters would have done the same—Tommy flat out said he would have done the same, Abby would never sacrifice Lev, Jerry hesitates when Marlene questions if he’d sacrifice Abby and Ellie goes on a similar rampage when Joel died.

I went to Anon Babble and my eyes got raped by this so I'll have you fags look at it too.

Respect to the Dina actress

Most people forget the sequence in the parking lot where Marlene had every right to shoot Joel, but still shows him mercy. It’s not a death sentence for a guy like Joel. And there isn’t actually even 1 collectible that suggests they’re full of shit, the game stresses with multiple collectibles how they’ve never encountered someone like Ellie and it’s this huge breakthrough. People just don’t want it to be nuanced they don’t realize how much they are fucking over Joel’s character

But they can’t create a vaccine given
1. That’s not how the infection works
2. They’re working out of what is effectively a ruin
3. They’re horribly incompetent
But I see you’re trying to shift this from “they could do it” to “they’re just as selfish” to avoid the fact that they’re killing a child for a cure they knew wasn’t going to happen.

I hated this because Merced is a fucking minx and they did her so dirty

fpbp, Neil is a fucking hack

The rest of the episode was pretty fucking great, but then it devolved into pure shit as soon as they started fucking. Dina shouldn’t get the hots for Ellie and be all jokey after seeing her get bitten, and Dina being pregnant isn’t some Omg this is beautiful moment it puts a strain on their mission considering she won’t be as useful

Nah. Mutually assured destruction would've been the best ending. Abby got everything she wanted but not Ellie? Ellie let's her go because of a stupid flashback? It was a contrive decision by Druckmann and not the character herself..

Yeah no, that’s the scene where she pretty much shows she has no confidence in the cure and says that it’s better for Ellie to die there than be raped and murdered.

It’s not a death sentence for a guy like Joel

No gear in the middle of a city full of bandits and zombies is given he’s basically naked, he doesn’t even have a gas mask for fuck sake.

And there isn’t actually even 1 collectible that suggests they’re full of shit

So you go from incompetent to full of shit that fast. Amazing how you shift when you can’t argue.

Iconic hammer

Imagine being Isabella Merced in that scene and having to be all "damn, Bella Ramsey, you fuckin' fine, all sexy with your tiny shrimp body and horrific misshapen potato face. I would totally have sex with you, both my character and the real me." when all she really wants to do is take another butt selfie at 16 in her dressing room. Like seriously imagine having to be Isabella and not only lay on that floor while Bella Ramsey flaunts her disgusting body in front of you, the extra dim lightning completely concealing her cromagnon jaw and puffy skin, and just sit there, take after take, hour after hour, while she perfected that fingerbang. Not only having to tolerate her monstrous visage but her haughty attitude as everyone on the set tells her she's NORMAL LOOKING and DAMN, BELLA RAMSEY CAN ACT LIKE *THAT*?? because they're not the ones who have to lay there and watch her mannish fucking gremlin face contort into types of grimaces you didn't even know existed before that day. You've been fucking unspecified pop stars and later alleged old British men for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the suburbs in Ohio. You've never seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on her bulging forhead as she furrows it in to writhe it suggestively at you, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to get paid to sit there and revel in her "statuesque (for that is what she calls herself)" beauty, the beauty she worked so hard for with personal trainers in the previous months. And then the director calls for another take, and you know you could kill every single person in this room before the studio security could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because you're fucking Isabella. You're not going to lose your future musical career over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.

women in an apocalypse

Why are they not all pregnant

She let her go because she realized that she had lost everything. I think it was having her fingers being bitten off that made her realize "I can't even do the one thing that could connect me to Joel"

Lines are arbitrary by default. Even the term villain has no meaning outside of a cackling evil character with no identifiable rationale set up as an antagonist against the hero, who the audience is supposed to side with.

What most people fail to realize this that the people they are opposed to have a rationale that's often no worse than their own. Ellie says regarding the WLFs that "they're not like us" and that they kill on sight, but clearly they're in a war with Scars, unlike in the peaceful surroundings of Jackson where infected are the major threat. The rationale is there, and if you choose to assign a right or wrong to it you're some type of deluded moralfag with clouded judgement who will never see reality for what it is

Abby is untying the boat when Ellie says she won't let her leave. Abby says she isn't doing this so Ellie walks over and pushes her down and then puts a blade to Lev's throat. Abby says this isn't about him and Ellie says she made it about him. So Abby agrees to fight

TLOU is literally the most implausible and shitty apocalypse.

I said selfless not selfish, the game never suggests the vaccine might fail and it might be a suspension of disbelief because of uh science neither of us understand? Same with the infection in general. but that’s how storytelling is sometimes, including TLOU like how Joel and Tess wonder how they will find a firefly and then they turn around and there’s Marlene just standing there.

The game definitely wanted you to think the cure would happen, but I would suggest you stop overlooking all the writing I made about why Joel’s character is compelling and reasonable instead of being dead set on him just being 100% in the right which kind of ruins the ending and his character

You wouldn't last a second in the apocalypse

there would be at least 1 collectible or 1 dialogue

Unstitute has two tape recorders.
One one of them that Joel skips through, last Firefly says that entire cure venture is a waste of time and they didn't achieve shit for years. On other recorder another retarded scientist gets bitten by an infected monkey and comically ends the recording with "oh n-", so you are to tell me after hearing this, Joel is supposed to believe that they've got thier shit together when they have no resources to organize thier own Ellie transfer?
And that's not really related to anything but what kind of fucking scientists the moment they get thier hands on immune person immediately decide to rip her brain out instead of at least running a few tests on a living specimen? Are they in a hurry because they are competing for t
a grant? Why is it written like this?
You are aware that from the moment Ellie passed out during tunnel flood and her waking up in Joel's car, Fireflys never actually got her concent to be immediately turned into samples because they never even bothered to wake her up once?

The tv series pathetic attempt at adapting this final confrontation will be hilariously bad.

This is so MEAN

Should have just ended here. Ellie sees Abby strung up, and instead of cutting her down, just leaves her as the clickers start coming in.

Unstitute has two tape recorders

What the fuck? I meant University.

That's the most blandest shit i've ever read

Marlene has no dialogue where she is unsure about the vaccine, and why didn’t she shoot Joel? We actually have the reason. “I’m not about to kill the one man who can understand the weight of this decision.” Giving him guns would be stupid he literally shoots them up. And I’m right about there not even being 1 collectible that suggests it, the one people quote aka Surgeon’s Recorder where they think the collectible tells us there are other people like Ellie is 100% miscomprehension and it actually says the opposite. And it’s just such a stupid interpretation considering it’s obvious the game wants you to know Joel is lying at the end about how the vaccine wasn’t possible, everyone knows it that’s the whole point of the ending

And what would you do oh great and creative one?

game never suggests the vaccine might fail

Really so you think a handful of morons in a run down hospital are capable of creating a vaccine from a growth that they have done zero tests on and have little to no information? Because that reeks of imminent failure.

it might be a suspension of disbelief because of uh science neither of us understand

More like you don’t understand. Contamination is a pretty simple thing to grasp, it’s why hospitals have O.R.s sterilized and tools sealed before use.

but that’s how storytelling is sometimes

Good stories make sense and have believable events to make things not feel contrived. It’s why even when shit gets weird in fantasy people let it go because the world establishes that it’s the norm, but this is supposedly a world where things work more or less the same as ours minus the zombie fungus.

The game definitely wanted you to think the cure would happen

By showing that the people trying to get it were all incompetent and couldn’t do basic tests or find a place cleaner than a gas station bathroom?

She HAS to 'defeat' her first.

“The game wants you to know it would fail because the hospital isn’t clean” I think that’s bull crap, it looks dirty because it’s an apocalypse world they use the same textures for every indoor area and might be an oversight they corrected. I just think it ruins the ending if the fireflies are just retarded terrorists who would kill Ellie for no reason, but I don’t really have to worry about it because I can’t safely say with 100% certainty that is not what the game wanted to say and thankfully they are the ones in charge of the writing and not anons lol

By showing that the people trying to get it were all incompetent and couldn’t do basic tests or find a place cleaner than a gas station bathroom?

Didn't they also ruin another place and it fell to bandits?

Honestly, there is not even a 1% chance what they pulled with ellie would have worked. Real world science saying a cure is impossible doesn't matter, they had clearly zero knowledge on what the fuck they were even trying to do.

The scene you just mentioned retard, and the second game has a whole thing where she is having doubts.

why didn’t she shoot Joel

You tell me, if she was certain the cure was going to work why didn’t she kill him and save mankind?

I’m not about to kill the one man who can understand the weight of this decision

Aka she didn’t give a shit about the cure and was just letting him go because the game needed a happy ending which was ruined by the second game.

Giving him guns would be stupid he literally shoots them up

After they tell him to fuck off without his gear, paying him, or letting him say goodbye to Ellie. But just keep ignoring things that prove you wrong.

the one people quote

You mean the ones that this guy is talking about? > And it’s just such a stupid interpretation considering it’s obvious the game wants you to know Joel is lying
But Joel isn’t saying that the recording is.

Says you

This really highlights that the issues with the Left Behind dlc and TLOU2 unironically comes from Druckmann hiring women to write his characters. This is so absurd and melodramatic it never should have left the writer's room.

Killing trillions of people/animals to get to Abby is GOOD

Killing Abby is.... LE BAD because.... Uhhhhhhhhh.......... Well..... She suffered too I guess or something

Is this the worst game of all time?

I think that’s bull crap

Really so you think if a book describes something as being rundown and shitty that the author isn’t trying to tell you that it’s either abandoned or has bad owners? This is all visual storytelling and you’re trying to write it off because it contradicts your narrative.

an apocalypse world they use the same textures for every indoor area

Yeah almost like it’s all run down and shitty because no one takes care of things because they have bigger problems than presentation.

they are the ones in charge of the writing and not anons

Funny you say that because the people here have been picking apart the story with ease while fags like you just try and fail to defend it. This has been going on for years and you still can’t get it.

Read this thread anon, a lot of people honestly think a bunch of untrained wackos in a hospital that’s been derelict for 20 years could come up with a cure and what Joel did was "choosing Ellie over humanity"

No that’s cuckmans fault, after the TLOU he pushed out all of his tard wranglers. Left Behind is what he did on his own, and TLOU2 was his first time with full control.

I honestly think that the developers thought they had convinced 'the audience' that Abby was a differant person by this point in the story like she hadn't just tortured and murdered a dude who killed her dad in self defense.

Realistically given how these threads are it’s one guy defending it. I’m not kidding he usually comes around to do this every few months. But with season 2 of the show it seems he has started again.

In that scene there is no dialogue where Marlene says it might not work, she spares him because she knows what he is going through and empathizes even though she definitely should have killed him. The first game wasn’t necessarily a 100% happy ending cus their goal basically failed and he had to lie to Ellie. I don’t think the fireflies were in the complete right too considering they never asked for Ellie’s permission either and Marlene’s initial line “Don’t waste this gift, Joel” before the shootout started was pretty cold as if letting him go was this great gift. If they had let Joel get closure with Ellie they would have lived but from my interpretation they couldn’t risk the chance of Ellie saying no. Also in the 2nd game there is a sequence at the end of the museum flashback where Ellie sees graffiti of an ex-firefly talking about how they brutalized the QZ, so the game obviously never wanted you to think the fireflies are this squeaky clean clan I just don’t think the game ever suggested the vaccine was hopeless. which is where there is nuance in the ending. I am not trying to be an asshole

If you kill all your enemies they win

It's really sad how schizophrenic you are being right now. Are you even listening to yourself?

Have it end here but with Abby begging for Ellie to save the tranny kid at least but then just completely ignored by Ellie

I just think it ruins the ending if the fireflies are just retarded terrorists who would kill Ellie for no reason

You don't suppose Fireflys being portrayed as well meaning but desperate and unreasonable fuck ups is intentionally there to give more leeway to whether Joel's actions are justified? You know, make more than a very narrow "kill billions to save one step daughter?" I mean, I know sequel definitively frames it as such. But mentally go back to 2013 and ask yourself how does it ruin the ending by giving both sides of the argument actual narrative weight?

why are gamers so incapable of interpreting any art form?

Art doesn't require interpretation. Art quite simply is.

Then the retard got humbled at the infamous incident.

If you think Cuckmann remembers that day as anything other than a huge siccess, I have a vaccine to sell you

I just don’t think the game ever suggested the vaccine was hopeless.

There was a mention in the game of whether or not they even had the capability for mass producing the vaccine if it was even successful. I doubt they had the necessary equipment, materials, manpower, etc.

Joel’s decision was justified for other reasons, and the games suggest most people would have done the same. Marlene was wavering but she felt forced to go along with it because there was just so many sacrifices along the way and she tells us in collectibles she doesn’t have a choice anyways, they’re asking her out of formality. When Marlene asks Jerry if he’d sacrifice Abby the game has him intentionally avoid answering, Abby betrays the WLF for Lev which I felt was the game telling us this is Abby doing what Joel did she would never sacrifice Lev, and it has Ellie go on this massacre across Seattle lashing out in pain so obviously she would do the same for Joel.

And overall it’s hard not to be on Joel’s side because he’s this super interesting compelling character, with his arc set up from the prologue ending with such a masterful bow meanwhile the fireflies are this mostly faceless organization. But the fireflies are useful as a plot device if they are just evil retarded terrorists that would kill Ellie for nothing it takes a lot of the bite out of the ending, and thankfully that’s a wrong interpretation.

Notice how the schizo who is constantly defending this trash immediately gets hyper defensive at the idea that there is a person that fixates on a game and freaks the fuck out and argues the same shit for hours. I mean it’s not like Anon Babble or Anon Babble as a whole as an issue with mentally unstable autists constantly spamming the same shit.

It is his fault for hiring bad writers and not having any confidence in writing female characters, trying to virtue signal as a woke feminist ally hiring unqualified women to write for the game.

Also Straley worked on left behind as lead director, the whole reason he quit was because he crunched nonstop for like 6 years on TLOU + DLC + UC4.

In that scene there is no dialogue where Marlene says it might not work

So in your mind she needs to explicitly say it or else it didn’t happen? Because she literally shows with he actions that she knows given she doesn’t shoot Joel and she doesn’t try to even defend the possibility of a cure but just says it’s better that ellie died there than somewhere else.

The first game wasn’t necessarily a 100% happy ending cus their goal basically failed and he had to lie to Ellie

Which is bullshit because she knew it was a lie and would have to have been retarded not to.

I don’t think the fireflies were in the complete right

You thinking they’re in any kind of right is the problem. They are shown to be a bunch of retarded terrorists that do nothing but fuck people over and ruin shit.

so the game obviously never wanted you to think the fireflies are this squeaky clean

The games never show them as being clean period outside of the shit with the zebra which was just a cheap emotional moment to try to get people to think Jerry wasn’t a retard that was willing to kill a kid for something he knew wasn’t going to happen.

It's almost as if a good writer wrote part 1 and a hack piece of faggot shit hijacked part 2 or something. Is this news to you?

I’ve had someone say I am a samefag for making this argument, but I only just played the game for the first time with the steam release and desperate for conversation about it but so far this is the only thing people want to really engage with. I have had similar conversations back when TLOU1 came out though about there being other patients like Ellie I have vivid memories of going through the collectibles at the hospital level to see if anons were correct

He is a bad writer.

so the game obviously never wanted you to think the fireflies are this squeaky clean

That makes sense given there was an option to say no to kissing whatsherface and her and Ellie just being friends.

Did you think admitting that what I said was true while using the same cope is somehow going to show I’m wrong? You literally ran away the last time you did this shit and suddenly all the other retards disappeared as well and the thread died. Why do you do this unhinged shit? Are you at least getting paid?

Well Marlene in collectibles tells us why she doesn’t want to kill Joel, she says he’s the only person that understands what she’s going through. She says something like “I will not kill the only person who can understand the weight of this decision” she seems to suspect he grew to love her like she did

A lot of people think Ellie suspected he was lying but just went along with it or forcing herself to believe it, this was a common interpretation of the ending

And I think the zebra scene was gay cus it was clear they wanted you to feel bad about Jerry dying so they did it in this hamfisted way, which I get why but yeah. The fireflies definitely have this edge to them but I just don’t think the game is trying to tell us the vaccine wasn’t gonna work out, and I think the game knew that’s what made Joel’s decision so compelling and meaningful

This whole game makes no sense logically after the point of when Abby finishes clubbing Joel's head in. She and her entire ganged logically should have killed Ellie thereafter.

takes a lot of the bite out of the ending

It really doesn't. Fireflys being clowns doesn't reduce or deminish Joel lying through his teeth that he didn't just massacre his way through the entirety of the facility.
I don't see it in anyway as 100% done deal in favor of cure not being a pipe dream or vice versa. But to pretend that incompetence and just over all gonzo CDC attitude of Fireflys is some headcanon is just silly. The ambiguity is in built.

That was me it was like 2am and I went to bed, I replied in the morning but got nothing back which is fine lol I’m telling you now I’m not the only guy you’ve been talking to about this but it’s up to you to believe that or not, I never participated in TLOU2 talks outside of the leaks until the steam release. I wouldn’t be the only person that thinks this for obvious reasons. I am autismo with these games I will discuss basically anything about it I will share criticisms as well

Well Marlene in collectibles tells us why she doesn’t want to kill Joel, she says he’s the only person that understands what she’s going through. She says something like “I will not kill the only person who can understand the weight of this decision” she seems to suspect he grew to love her like she did

You already used this and I called it out as being a poorly written excuse. If Marlene actually cared about the vaccine or thought it was going to happen she would have shot him. Not to mention she was going to kill him anyway by sending him out without his gear.

A lot of people think Ellie suspected he was lying but just went along with it or forcing herself to believe it, this was a common interpretation of the ending

This is retarded because there is no fucking way she could even force herself to believe him given how poorly he is lying and how much the story falls apart when actually examined.

The fireflies definitely have this edge to them but I just don’t think the game is trying to tell us the vaccine wasn’t gonna work out

So far you have shown that you’re either ignoring or don’t understand basic storytelling or narrative indicators and think if something isn’t spoon fed to you then it isn’t a possibility. That’s like saying that chekovs gun isn’t a thing because no one said they would fire a gun in the story and just shot it after showing it.

Even cuckmann himself was browbeat by his movie normalfag audience into admitting Joel did nothing wrong and Abby had everything coming to her.

Yeah you gave that cope as well but ended up coming not even a hour back just to give a few more replies after while pretending that you didn’t care. You keep doing this shit and think no one will notice because the site is anonymous but when you’re this much of an obnoxious faggot people will call you out. Now fuck off back to your shitty echo chamber and cry about your retarded game that you have spent the last five years trying to defend.

The game definitely spends a lot of time showing the fireflies as doing a lot of bad stuff, but I just think they would have some dialogue like Joel saying “You don’t even know if it will work!” And Marlene could be like “I have faith, Joel.” Or give a collectible that says it might not work but it’s worth the risk. But I think the game wants you to think the vaccine was gonna happen so it’s like Joel is choosing Ellie over this huge boon for humanity

I wrote 1 more reply a minute after saying I would go to bed not an hour, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t still reading the thread between sleepy eyes though. This was like 2 weeks ago too? But I’ve said all that can be said about it. I am not trying to be this like fanboy the discussion isn’t even about if TLOU 1 or 2 is good; it’s this technical talk about the ending. I’m not lying when I said I had criticism but generally I do like both games but I’m sympathetic to people that don’t like the 2nd

She never forgave her

I wrote 1 more reply a minute after saying I would go to bed not an hour

No you fucking didn’t, it was fifteen minutes after and you were trying to make it look like you were leaving while you just larped as another person and now by your own admission lurked waiting to see if I would leave.

am not trying to be this like fanboy the discussion isn’t even about if TLOU 1 or 2 is good; it’s this technical talk about the ending

Yet here you are doing the opposite and trying to go all in on the lie that you totally haven’t been doing this shit for years while repeating the exact same talking points and giving the exact same copes. Honestly do you think this will work? Why do you retards think no one remembers you or do you think that crying schizo every time someone does doesn’t make you look like some butthurt retard that was called out for his desperate and unhinged behavior.

Someone else was saying this stuff because that wasn’t me lol that thread, assuming we’re even talking about the same thread, was my first time talking about TLOU for literal years but I have seen this argument a long time ago before I used Anon Babble

I tried to look on the archive so I can tell you no I didn’t reply an hour later or whatever, the keyword I used was Surgeon’s Recorder because I know I talked about that and yes I can see this has been an ongoing argument. It is amazing this same thing I saw back when TLOU1 came out is still being discussed and memories flood in of looking on the wiki for the transcript of that specific collectible, but maybe amazed isn’t the right word it’s kind of depressing

Watched a full Let's Play stream of TLOU2 near launch. Theater kid shit. I was cheering on the last whatever bandit faction. I'd run a slave camp too if a stream of murderous she-hulks kept showing up.

“You don’t even know if it will work!” And Marlene could be like “I have faith, Joel.”

Sure, I guess, maybe along with lines like

"Ellie I sure have grown to love you as my daughter, the daughter I lost 20 years ago, I sure hope I won't be put in the situation where I might lose you as well, or I will flip my tit"

As long as we are completely stripping writting of all nuenace.
What did you not understand when say that the vaccine possibility is supposed to be ambigioius? A character, even a fucking note saying, "lmao, we don't know, have some faith Arthur," is a death nail to any such ambivalence for that matter. Fireflys being 'sure' is not a definitive of them being right.
Again, you are not arguing against windmill points. Do you honestly believe that nothing in Fireflys actions, personnel or location supposed to make you think they don't know what they are doing? And don't fucking misunderstand. I am not trying to put it into another definitive bracket.
But there is no way they put a recording of a fucking infected monkey bitting Fyrefly scientist and several years later this same group is just somehow one immune brain away from the cure, inherent knowledge of which, i might add, is for some reason relegated to a single person. How is this not supposed to make you think this was not 100% snoopes verified vaccine making?

Who gives a fuck about muh ethics.
Fireflies were raging assholes and deserved everything they got for that alone. I would have killed them all purely for sucker punching me while I was giving someone CPR.

Is this the worst game of all time?

It is at least the single most insidious subversive work of Jewish "art" in the gaming realm. It's so through with it's demonic messaging it's kind of insane. Legitimately to explain every last aspect that makes it propaganda with a clear goal in mind would require more letters than one Anon Babble post can handle.

Someone else was saying this stuff because that wasn’t me lol

No, especially because they were giving the same kind of copes and even the same ones while refusing to post a screencap and then storming off.

assuming we’re even talking about the same thread

Throwing this in after saying what happened shows two things, one you know what I’m talking about which means you were there, two you’ve done this in other threads like I said but good job letting everyone know that.

the same thread, was my first time talking about TLOU for literal years

So first it’s you haven’t talked about it period and now it’s I haven’t done it in years. You’re a terrible liar and can never keep your shit straight yet you keep going on like this? Why?

I tried to look on the archive so I can tell you no I didn’t reply an hour later or whatever

You’re the one that said it was an hour. I said it was a short time after. Why do you do this? Seriously do you have some kind of obsessive disorder or narcissistic need to defend shit because it makes you feel smart and if it’s shit then you end up feeling retarded?

yes I can see this has been an ongoing argument

Because you keep trying to do it over and over and just end up getting btfo.

maybe amazed isn’t the right word it’s kind of depressing

So this is all you have left? Just saying this situation is sad while trying to insult me? The best part is you’re the one that brought up that specific recording and you’re not doing it to argue but to deflect away from the fact you’re some unhinged retard that was called out yet again. Seriously you keep desperately inserting it into every single reply when you’re the one that brought that shit up about the immune.

Correct answer is neither and Neil Druckmann is a writing hack that got really lucky with the TLOU 1.

I am sympathetic to that point of view and think that could make sense, I just don’t think the game wanted you to think that. I don’t think a dialogue or collectible making this point wouldn’t have been this huge stripping of nuance thing, it would be an organic dialogue for Joel to have or a doctor to ponder in a collectible but the fact they don’t tells me the game didn’t want you to think that cus to the game writers it would kind of take the bite out of Joel’s choice. Since the reason the choice is so juicy, to them, is what is at stake. And the TLOU2 corroborates it too I don’t agree when people say it was retconned or the 2nd instalment softened the fireflies, since we have that moment in the museum flashback where Ellie sees graffiti of a fireflies confession and Abby talks to Owen about how fireflies did evil stuff. I will never talk about this again I think this interpretation is fine and if it makes the ending better for people then I give it a thumbs up

It’s more he was tardwrangled out of making a miserable revenge bad story and when he got into power made the sequel what he wanted the first game to be.

I just don’t think the game wanted you to think that.

The game wanted people to doubt and argue about it. Giving Joel either guilt free rescue or muh daughter, fuck the world, only makes it just less polarizing. This isn't even writting issue, it's just longevity and lasting impact. Nobody would have been talking or asking shownrunners whether Joel was right if they definitively established the vaccine status.
Not saying they wouldn't argue. It would have been just much narrowed into Joel's inconsideration.

So first it’s you haven’t talked about it period

I have never said that not once because it definitely is not true, I have very vivid memories of searching through hospital collectibles because people kept saying one of them said there are more patients like Ellie. And I wasn’t sure if you were thinking of someone else but that was probably me, the guy who wanted to go to sleep

And you insult me every post in this thread and that thread, I never insulted you once until I said it is depressing. And it is depressing I scanned through the archive and yeah I can see this stretching on. Surgeon’s Recorder is a great keynote to check out this level of autismo from both sides and now I have contributed to the autismo. The other anons are dicks too but they present a thoughtful perspective

People asked that because they need to appeal to authority. It’s easy to argue why he is right because it’s been happening for years and the only thing the people that don’t think that can say is that the vaccine could have worked while ignoring everything to the contrary and saying how he was being selfish as if that changes the fact that the fireflies were going to kill a kid for something that was impossible.

Revenge feels good. Anyone who says otherwise is a lying kike.

The problem with that is the entire conflict makes her look like a retarded brat that would be mad a the dude who saved her life but not the people that tried to kill her

inb4 he lied

Which she would know if she wasn’t a retard. And yet for some reason Marlene lying about keeping her safe is somehow not an issue even though she has known her longer.

the whole fight itself was dumb. not only does she put all her guns away, she struggles to shank some half dead bitch.
really wish this would've been used for the ending youtube.com/watch?v=x8kFidde1Ro&t=99s

If he got the gold club it would vindicate what people say about him having a personal thing against Joel.

That wasn’t me lol I only played TLOU2 on steam, I hope you feel embarrassed deep down. I have to admit it was annoying me at first but now it just makes me laugh that person not being me is not even a possibility to you. That guy is probably just as big of a loser as you if this has been a running topic for as long as I suspect. I don’t say this lightly: you are a faggot

leave it to a woman to make the murder of the man who saved your life a billion times over about her own emotions

makes me think of this blog I read years back, by some swedish guy whose daughter was kidnapped, brutally raped, and then murdered by a migrant, and he wrote a blog post about how he forgives the guy. it shocked me so much, I genuinely considered seeking the ex-dad out IRL and confronting him over it, because it struck me as so profoundly evil that I was disturbed it could exist without someone doing something about it. same shit with that white kid who got stabbed in the US that everyone's talking about, and his dad spends all his time touring around making his own son's murder about himself and how non-racist he is. this shit's so fucking evil, dude.

anyway. where was I going with this? I guess I was contradicting my low-effort post about women being stupid, selfish, and evil. I guess men are no better. but yeah, fuck ellie, fuck abbie, fuck the writer of this garbage, and fuck everyone in the lives of these parents IRL who can stand to be in the room with one of them without punching them out every time their eyes meet

yeah the way it interfaces with hte tlou1 ending is pretty bad, especially since the last thing ellie knew was she was drowning in the subway tunnel

If the game were realistic in the slightest ellie would've taken a rock to the back of the head after she sat down and turned her back to her

If this pov sympathy bonus shit was true Abby would have been sure fire hit with everyone. And people would understand her as much they do Joel. Except not really the case.

If there was dialogue about the vaccine perhaps failing I don’t think anyone would side with the fireflies

Literally my point to begin with, by establishing vaccine status one way or the other, you are handwaving one part of the discussion over Joel decision.
Even if his rescue was emotionally driven, you can't over look that Fireflys were clearly throwing a hail mary on that brain. Nor you could deny that there is a chance that they knew what they were doing and thier desperation is driven by the fact that they are at end of the day a terror group hunted by powers that be.

so why do people keep saying that the vaccine wasn't a sure thing when the game never treated it as if it could fail for whatever reason

It was you pathetic faggot, you have been crying this same exact shit over and over only to show that you’re lying through your teeth because you know how pathetic doing all of this shit for so long makes you look.

hope you feel embarrassed deep down

Projection isn’t going to make you look less pathetic. I know you need to act like your words hold some kind of weight because being called a retard makes your brain burn but believe it or not most people here aren’t that fragile. You on the other hand are given you suffer from a mix of severe mental illness and the fact that you’re used to being in a place where no one is able to challenge your shit opinions without being silenced.

it just makes me laugh

Another sign of desperation is the emphasis on laughter, you know you have nothing so you have to try and look like you don’t care/are confident in an attempt to save face. Again you do this shit all the time and it always fails.

That guy is probably just as big of a loser as you

Self deprecation is a sign of mental illness as well.

You already tried saying this and failed, samefagging isn’t going to work or show you’re not some unhinged faggot throwing another tantrum. Take your meds or go back to your circle jerk.

All of the in-game discussion about the vaccine wasn't "we need her brain so we can make it" it was "we need to study the part of her brain that's been taken over so we can see what we can do." It's basically the difference between "if we skin the dog we can taxidermy it" and "if we skin the dog we might be able to figure out how to taxidermy it." There is nothing in either game that points to them being able to do anything with Ellie's brain other than learn from it.

Would have been better if Ellie actually drowned her at the end but actually having Ellie start walking away instead at that moment, only for Abby to beg to save the pooner at which point Ellie stops, looks her in the eyes and approaches the kid only to kill xer then leave without a word would be unironically kino and make Ellie seem like an actual monster that was created via the pursuit of revenge.

Instead we just get constant allusions to how bad Ellie is, except literally every single time she kills anyone it's either pure self defense or spur of the moment caused by accidental fuck up that forces her ahnd. Even the sole exception to this with the most "evil" part of her beating that one black girl with a pipe is prompted by her actively taunting Ellie and saying how nice it was to kill Joel.
It's really odd how much Druckmann tries to sell the idea of Ellie becoming evil but there really isn't a singular moment where she isn't 100% justified.

Druckmann tries to sell the idea of Ellie becoming evil

Because that’s how it was supposed to be in his original draft for the last of us. Joel was supposed to “corrupt” Ellie and make her a monster like him only for him to be killed by Tess who would then be killed by Ellie.

For a very long time I thought Ellie immunity is like small pox immunity gained by cow pox. That she basically got the benign version of the shroom, that did infect her but will never turn her, preventing real deal. Hence the reason why they NEED to open her up like on day one. They are not interested in her but the benigh shrigma. But apperantly it was all wrong and it's pregnancy inheritance and they are all just retarded.

Reminder that Druckman said they would have found a cure if Joel let Ellie die to justify Abby

Joel was the protagonist of the first one which everyone really loved and he’s considered one of the best vidya characters, there’s no way everyone would be ok with Abby after what she did. I just think Joel’s decision is compelling and understandable enough without adding the vaccine failing, and in fact softening the decision by doing this just makes it less compelling. At least from Joel’s perspective he never indicates he thinks it might fail, I wouldn’t say Joel never cared about the vaccine but saving Ellie is just a no brainer for him as was started when he lost Sarah. And I do think the real crux of it is some people thinks the games, especially the 2nd one doesn’t want you to sympathize with Joel so they add extra justification for his decision. The 2nd game is very sympathetic to Joel it ends with him saying he’d do it all over again, and I recently saw an interview where Cuckmann admits he would do the same as Joel (but he’d probably fail because he’s not a killing machine like Joel). and similarly

Ellie isn’t evil the game doesn’t want you to think that, you’re not wrong to point out a lot of it was in self defense. it’s not like the game wants you to blame Ellie for not wanting to get mauled by a dog so she kills it. Every step of Ellie’s journey has her be sympathetic there is never a moment she steps into villainy

The pregnancy part is TV only, in game Anna didn't die of an attack or the fungal infection but from post-pregnancy complications. Ellie was just naturally immune or had a resistance. In the first game it was implied she could spread the infection, but she had sex with Dina in Part 2 and nothing happened so its likely she can't bite people and infect them.

appeal to authority

Just keep crying faggot

Do you think saying cuckman will hide the fact you’re giving the same argument for the vaccine working? You still haven’t answered what drives you to do this pathetic shit?