What PvP game has the highest skill ceiling?

What PvP game has the highest skill ceiling?

Dota2

probably some fighting game

probably some 1v1 arena shooter like quake 3

CS

skill ceiling

Probably an RTS

OP's webm is funny, but on topic I have grown to hate all multiplayer games for this shit

nah bro if you frameskip into the double Sleazyman technique at 600APM you can do 5% more damage; unless of course your opponent has metaed into the clutch hitbox ELO taunt cancel

Shut the fuck up
I shouldn't be required to do 10,000 years of homework to play a video game
Somehow none of them worked like that when I was a kid we just button mashed
Somehow TF2 and Nintendoslop (other than Smash) survived it years longer than everybody else

Pretty much any 1v1 game. Genre hardly matters. Team based games don't rely on personal skill.

I think you're looking at this backwards. If you want to be able to play off-meta then the ELO systems in those Valve games will match you with other people equally as un-meta as you are. You can all be bad together and just enjoy it casually. That's how I play Dota 2, I don't research or study anything just play my best and let ELO settle out where I am about with my equals.

They do up to a point. Otherwise people wouldn't be able to climb solo.

are you trying to imply cs doesn't have a skill ceiling so it's a very high skilled game and you can improve at it indefinitely

Playing against organized teams is a completely different game than PUGs

Anon, that's just you being a sperg.
People generally actually do get better at a game they play.
You are trying to excuse not being world champion at every game ever because you envisage everyone else being a sweaty tryhard that nolifes games.
Because that's the only way you can cope with losing; belittling everyone else.

cs probably has the highest skill ceiling of any game but it's team skill

I can't play hunt showdown anymore because the game thinks I'm 6 stars after 1 good game and make me play against actual autistic sweat lords for the rest of the night. I hate MMR based matchmaking.

You won't gaslight me shill

skill based matchmaking work. just play like you want to instead of being a btich

Splatoon, unironically. It's a shame that it's made by Nintendo so they're going to keep marketing it as the kiddy shooter where you paint the floor.

bump

Team based games don't rely on personal skill

What a retarded statement.

Rust

poker

CS is retarded garbage that only became popular because Anton and the other turd world trash could play it on their potato PCs.

Gartic

CS has been popular for decades for good reason.

Quake 3

Somehow none of them worked like that when I was a kid we just button mashed

When you were a kid you probably weren't such a salty little bitch, could take a loss without throwing a fit, and just enjoyed playing the game.

Rust, hitscan games are for pathetic casuals and the other mechanics give it enough depth to really do some insane tactics.

Dota 2 is a wide margin ahead of every other pvp game ever made. I'd say for FPS probably The Finals for RTS aoe2 and for fighting games it depends on what you consider difficult, long combos, hard inputs etc would drastically change the answer

every fps game is full of cheaters

some videogames are like sports. if we take your comment and put it in a sporting context, something like
"i played a lot of basketball when i was younger just kinda fooling around, moving, shooting in a mediocre kinda way, and i was pretty good. now i'm older and still want to play basketball and find that my adult competition actually plays seriously and has honed skills that i didn't. i wish everyone was still playing at an elementary level"
we'd see how ridiculous your statement is. it wouldn't hold up. in real life, if an adult male lapsed out of a sport they enjoyed as an kid, they usually aren't super salty. i guess some of the time they are, but it's a rarity.

So you're upset because most people are better than you at videogames?
Actually, why does that even anger you? Do you feel like you're entitled to a high rank?

Wise post.

Only two anon got it right dota 2 deadlock then cs after you got league starcraft valorant any of those can be considered as the highest skill ceiling

Quack Champions (RIP)

It's funny how people play at average MMR and cry that everybody there is some sweaty tryhard with 10k hours using all sorts of obscure tech. Then you ask them for a replay and every single time the other dude is barely any better than they are and at most just isn't spazzing out as hard. Niggers literally can't imagine a scenario where somebody beats them fair and square. They must have thousands of hours in the game and be playing like their life depends on it while Anon is chill, just wants to have fun, and doesn't even care about winning (that's why he's fuming over the other guy playing to win and insulting him for being better at the game).

Tf2 and Nintendo slop aren't sports but games like cs and dota are more like real sports then anything

trying_to_ambush_Brazilians.webm

I'm kinda curious about about the hardest fighting game series. I grew up playing Tekken and I'm horrible at every other series I've tried.

esloid championing assfaggots

Pottery

Nah, 25+ years ago, the typical competitive community really was just that ignorant (not in an insulting way, but literally unaware because fundamental concepts were not yet understood, but now they're basically entry level knowledge).
Fighting game circles barely understood most properties, didn't truly have a grasp on let alone access to convenient frame data, and would come up with misconceptions like "priority" to describe what they thought was happening. It would take them years to even discover very effective techniques that make everyone wonder why they didn't think of it sooner, and to discard misunderstandings.
RTS and FPS competitive circles were a little more in touch with the mechanics since it was a PC-focused genre with lots of modding so they could dig into the code and watch demo replays, but even then they mostly relied more on consensus and strategies slowly developed.

Nowadays, a game isn't even out of beta and people can lock in on objective best characters/weapons/strategies that dominate the "meta" with an almost absolute certainty, and it will only get disrupted by the devs outright changing the parameters, or someone who is so good that he wins with a new strategy and everyone starts to copy him. The only notable late disruptions come from someone using a weak thing in a different effective way, and it only goes unnoticed for so long because nobody used it.

Naraka: Bladepoint

come up with misconceptions like "priority" to describe what they thought was happening

Button priority was absolutely a thing in a fuckton of fighting games, hell they can still be a thing sometimes

Yeah, I've seen what anons consider cheating.

Easiest genre to cheat in lol

Yeah, enemy is always cheating and im always losing because of bad teammates

fpbp
Only someone who has played modern dota can understand why that is

Because you have to babysit brazilians?

wow arena
bloodline champions/battlerite

fuck no, the matchmaking heavily dictates if you're gonna win or not. its either get timmies on your team and lose or the other team is full of timmies and you get a free win

Runescape wildy

Is dota really that much more skill intensive than league?

This does not matter to the average player. The average player in a fighting game still barely knows what's going on. You can easily mash with Honda and do well without knowing a thing. People were losing to an Eddy bot in T8 that literally just mashed one button endlessly. You don't even really get anti-aired in SF until master rank. You can still button mash. Just don't expect to be the next Daigo doing it just like you wouldn't have been decades ago.

Brood war

blc was great. br not so much
wow arena was good in uh, mop i guess? theres too much imbalanced classes/specs for it to be taken seriously tho

Micro wise no, with a couple major exceptions most heroes are pretty easy and mechanically simple. Knowledge wise significantly more, there's way, way, wayyyy more shit to keep track of and objectives and when to take them are not nearly as clear cut as league. Most of Dota's difficulty comes from decision making which isn't really intuitive to learn, you can't just lab combos or practice aim and be good to go.

Siege

Because the game is retardedly bloated by how flexible the gameplay is and the fact all top players have played that garbage for like 20.000 hours, and every couple of years the gameplay gets more bloated with more content
The amount of characters and what they can do with their skills, talents, facets, items and neutral items(over 200 items) makes everything autistically hard

perfectly said

thats also a good one

dead by daylight. i have 50 hours in the game and i still get my ass whooped when i play survivor but when i look at youtubers with 12000 hours played they either whoop the killers ass or throw the game for a meme build

Quake and Unreal Tournament.
We lost real competitive a long time ago for counter strike click on head keep crosshair level in one place garbage.

Honestly I'd say sim/simcade racing games like Gran Turismo 7

Starcraft / SC2.

Wear wrist weights. Play VR shooters.

Somehow TF2

TF2 demonstrates it isn't a bad thing.

TF2 was fun when I was just getting into it and it was fun to jump, shoot rocket, repeat, and it the fact that thousands of hours later I start learning about trimping, caber crouching, etc.

Those little tech points don't make the game unplayable for new or casual players, they make it fun for people who need depth.

I can't imagine CS having a higher skill ceiling than PubG.

Any hero shooter that requires game knowledge of how each hero works is objectively harder than a typical military shooter.

its higher than pubg based on grenade lineups alone

Our maps are so small that people are able to game theory throwables across the whole thing.

Meanwhile, pubg has more throwable options, and single maps that are the size of your entire map pool combined.

Requiring more rote learning=higher skill cap

Not that simple. That reasoning leads to making an unfun and convoluted game.

pure technical skill? StarCraft Brood War
teamwork skill? I would tie DOTA2 and CSGO

yea and the lack of size proves my point: cs is much more optimizable and players at the highest level need dozens of pixel precise lineups per map
pubg is more of an improvisational thing which makes it more inaccessible to beginners

It'd probably be better to differentiate skill ceiling vs breadth of skills required

Worms Shopper

Damn dude, you're incredibly retarded.

Fewer game states means more skill

Reducing a game to rote means more skill

Improvisation isn't skill

It would seem you are a brainlet.

if you are that well informed why dont you compare the training process of pro cs teams vs pro pubg players and also elaborate that shroud, a guy hyped for his incredible pubg skills, couldnt cut it in tier 1 cs

Agreed

Street Fighter

tac shooters aren't even the highest skill ceiling in FPS lol

1.6

*elegant not bad*

Not the highest but Build filtered billions of people.

GunZ the Duel. Too bad if it was brought back you'd have AHK fags making scripts for all the moves and doing some other minmaxing bullshit to ruin the game and meta fagging it to the point of it being unfun

street fighter/brood war/quake are the holy trinity of high skill ceiling gaming

every other game that also has a reasonably high skill ceiling dumbs down fundamental elements and bloats the game up with a fuck ton of knowledge checks instead

That's fair, I mean I actually like playing this way too and enjoy these games because of it.

brood war probably

Good morning sirs. Pubag amazin super duper skills games westerners cant play like us hindu gods yes

it's deadlock and maybe splatoon

Compare the training of a game that's pro-scene is more than a decade older with a larger audience to a newer game with a smaller audience.

Why not throw those CS players into a Halo tournament and see how they do?

My game with much more limited play options and maps 1% the size is surely more difficult!

Pathetic, honestly.

what a retarded angle to hold this guy is probably bronze

You know, Bobby Fischer, the greatest chess player of all time, said that when chess was reduced to memorization and lost any novel problem solving, that's when it pretty much lost its appeal?

halo is more complex than pubg as well, nice goalpost move btw

GOOOOOAAAAAALLLLL!!

well there is more of a wildcard factor to a real time video game that simply makes it close to impossible to always carry out your strategies as intended

nice goalpost move btw

Confirmed for non-sentient.

Nevertheless, having a game boil down to trying to perform a script is clearly far lower skill than a game that requires you adapt everytime.

You don't know what weapons you will find. You don't know what the drop path will be. You don't know where final circle will go.

Rather than memorizing some perfect grenade throws for a game, you have to actually be good at throwing grenades.

this shit is why i don't touch fighting games or RTS anymore, they were fun when i was fucking around as a kid but now it's just no lifers who spend 500 hours in training mode for a single combo or cunts somehow build an entire army within 3 minutes while i'm still trying to get my first barracks up

I know im going to get shit on, but unironically Fortnite Battle Royale (Build mode)
Sure the shooting is quite basic being a nothing special 3rd person FPS, but the build mechanic adds an entirely new skillset never seen in any other pvp game, alongside some of the movement tech per season / chapter and you probably have the highest skill ceiling in any game

You have to be 18 to post here.

Siege due to wall banging and noise. At the higher levels it turns into a pure mind game.

you can't say one game is harder than the other because you're competing against humans, the difficulty comes from how many hours pros put in

so in that respect it's probably counterstrike, millions of people have been playing the same maps for like 20+ years

More options doesn't mean more skillful. More options often means that the best players can't take everything into account and the skill gap actually decreases. As an example, the CoD devs (masters of dumbing down games and catering to casuals) made their maps bigger with more angles in 2019 and outright said it was precisely to benefit bad players so they had a better chance of getting the drop on a good one.

Kind of a poorly constructed question because “highest skill ceiling” is too broad without qualifying what kind of skill is being measured. Do you mean mechanical dexterity, strategic depth, decision-making under pressure, team coordination, etc? Then there's how genres prioritize different skills making comparisons across them vague at best, that's not even to get into the sub-varieties that exist which'll just have people flinging shit across the river about 2 different FPS games that aren't even the same things at their cores

see current thread

uh im better than plenty of people with more hours than me. being good at something isn't linear. i can wipe the floor with 99.9% of slavs who banged their head against a a wall for 100x the amount of time as me

Planetside 2
Ive managed to hold points 1v10 just off aim skills. Plus you feel like a god while you do it

you were arguing for pubg having a higher skill ceiling and moved to halo when i replied

those grenade lineups are basically the prerequisite, not an exceptional feat. after that come dozens of site executes, strats for reacting to the possible outcomes, late rotations to other sites based on the judgement of the in game leader, clutch situation being entirely reliant on improvisation. i missed some stuff but thats already a bit more than "stay inside of the safe zone, wait until you get a smaller safe zone and adjust accordingly" (i am not saying pubg is easy to master but this is about the ceiling)

t. HA gauss saw faggot

Orion 4 lyfe nigga stay seething

pubg is more of an improvisational thing which makes it more inaccessible to beginners

More options often means that the best players can't take everything into account and the skill gap actually decreases

The contradiction exposes your real motives behind your arguments. You don't believe CS is higher skill, you like the fact it doesn't give a player with fewer hours the chance to beat a player with more hours.

You are like a chess player that thinks he's great because he's memorized the optimal lines to 100 turns, then gets fucking bootyblasted losing to a 10 year old in Fischer random.

You are so delusional that you think only your playstyle is skillful, which is why you think that a player capable of winning in different scenarios is lower skill.

fpbp
and the crazy thing is they've made the game harder over time

more heroes

more features, mechanics per hero

larger map

more map mechanics

more items

etc

they aren't afraid of change, and difficult change

Quake 3 arena

Or StarCraft brood war maybe a C&C title

you were arguing for pubg having a higher skill ceiling and moved to halo when i replied

You mentioned taking a pro player from one game and seeing him not succeed in a different game is an argument about the skill ceiling. I made the same argument about seeing how top CS players adapt to Halo, but it's clear you cannot adapt, just like you cannot even argue.

stay inside of the safe zone, wait until you get a smaller safe zone and adjust accordingly" (i am not saying pubg is easy to master but this is about the ceiling)

Way to demonstrate zero understanding of the game.

Dota's skill becomes so intuitive and condensed that high level players automatically or have pre-emptively calculated the best move. "This hero wants to do this, I want to do this, this needs to happen, we're strong at this, etc". with 10x people all doing it at the highest level trying to one-up each other. It's a conceptual rock-paper-scissors.

skill ceiling thread

look inside

skill floor arguments

Put those halo players in a quake 3 or tribes 2 tournament and get back to me

So rote memorization = skill now

Lol try doing some micro in StarCraft broodwar multiplayer and get back to me

try doing some micro in StarCraft broodwar multiplayer

But does a game having clunky outdated controls and mechanics make it high skill? Or simply too tedious to learn?

rote memorization

Memory is a type of skill, yes.

i am not talking about people with lower hours at all, what do casual players have to do with skill ceiling when they are nowhere near it?
defining a skill ceiling should include the various stuff that you have to have in your back pocket in order to be able to improvise on the highest level. hence me bringing up shroud tearing people apart in pubg while not making a dent in games requiring actual in-depth tactics. theres a more pronounced psychological aspect to games like cs, siege etc as well with teams often being seated opposite of each other and crowd pressure.

You are so delusional that you think only your playstyle is skillful, which is why you think that a player capable of winning in different scenarios is lower skill.

there are no solved maps in cs, if you only work by learning the meta you wont stay at the tops. thats why teams employ people solely focused on developing new strat

its simplified, just like you simplified cs. which would be fine if you and that other guy had delivered any other pubg specific skills than "improvise"

Correct. It’s refinement culture and there’s no going back sadly. Boomer targeted games or games with RNG mechanics can actually solve this and bring the CASUAL back into the game. But people seethe over randomness because they want everything to be le high skill ceiling sweat fest.
Sure most games should be that but we need some casual games too.

Start designing your own casual game

woah guys its a Anon Babble cs thread let me gues:

loool cs takes no skill

hey guys i played quake back in 99 i am very smart

every pro player is a cheater

haha let me know if i missed anything guys

Oh, your ego has been so bruised you're resorting to semantics over the basic concept we all are discussing.

My definition of a skill ceiling is the highest level the game can be played at. The more skill(s) it allows at the highest level, the higher the skill ceiling. Chess has a higher skill ceiling than checkers, and 5D chess has a higher skill ceiling yet.

Most of the aspects of CS gameplay are present in PubG, but pubg has a lot lot lot more aspects CS does not. Vehicle play, destructible terrain, not being able always get the weapon you've invested the most time into, etc. etc.

Quake and other arena shooters.

youtube.com/watch?v=DKtLa2pFlPo

Probably Chivalry 1. Games like Chiv/Mordhau are literally bottlenecked by ping. The server simply can't keep up with your 10 ms reaction time and doesn't register a last millisecond parry that you hard read.

That's when you not just get to the top of the ceiling, but climb way past it with a 180+ IQ.
There reach a point in which you memorize all the viable plays and openings and know how to play against them perfectly, a point at which memorization and having enough IQ to process the turns fast enough won't help you anymore.
Since things like reflexes are limited cap, and aiming or speed are also severely capped past a certain point, if you're a genius like Bobby Fischer and hate the entire world and even other geniuses chess players since they're not real geniuses and just autistic savant fucks who probably carry less spaggheti in their pockets than you do, and probably don't carry sauce in their other pockets since they're just useless fucktards, add to that you're a salty bitch you do get tired of it once you have reached the top.
Man I only have a 138 IQ and I get somewhat salty at people like Fischer, I'll never get to be smart enough to reach that level of bitterness, true loneliness and depression.

Boomer targeted games

You mean like the new doom? Slow af projectiles and a red light green light parry minigame that gives you a time dilation effect when you hit a successful parry. Boomers would probably love those.

Probably Starcraft 2

hehe

when i was a kid we just button mash

no wonder why you are bitching, you are just bad at video games

"More options often means that the best players can't take everything into account and the skill gap actually decreases."

As an example, the CoD devs (masters of dumbing down games and catering to casuals) made their maps bigger with more angles in 2019 and outright said it was precisely to benefit bad players so they had a better chance of getting the drop on a good one.

That's because they're playing in a freaking controller and they're all shit, in PC giving players more angles would just raise the skillcap since sweaties are fucking high on adderal and probably grow eyes on their scalp, making the balder ones have a massive advantage.

Agreed. RTS tournament players are nuts.

Halo babies pretending their game is real hard

It's 2025 I never thought that would happen, yet here we are.

Note how he says something that affects all players fairly, and which can be adapted to with different play, lowers the skill ceiling.

He's a twitch run and gun player that thinks anyone playing cautious, sniping, camping, etc. cannot be skilled.

I really wish Deadlock had casual matches because Dota 2 is the only MOBA I played and I had no idea what the fuck I was doing and stopped playing after like two hours. CS2 is fun casual still, I'm too old to be a tryhard, but any time I try to play Deadlock online it's just a bunch of MOBA freaks complaining for 40 minutes that I'm trash at the game. I just want to be Holliday and blow shit up with my barrel. The only time I've had fun is getting friends to play matches against bots.

Man I only have a 138 IQ and I get somewhat salty at people like Fischer, I'll never get to be smart enough to reach that level of bitterness, true loneliness and depression.

You really envy that state? Because I'm pretty much there.

my peenus weenus of course

make DOTA into a shooter with 500 items, denying creeps and shit

gotta learn all that, the meta, hero abilities and what to expect from zero

I'm curious but learning all that shit after people have been at it for months seems worse than getting back into DOTA after 8 years of uninstalling WC3

CoD tourneys literally ban snipers and smokes because holding angles is stupid strong

it has a pretty high skill ceiling but there's no way it's the highest

it's probably some jank bugged up the ass game like gunz the duel or melee where you have to autistically exploit the game's broken code to get the upper hand on your fellow unemployed sex pests

you anchor too much on what traditional sports are and how they implement rules, that's not a foolproof way of proving it's better.

basketball

you are in a chinese cartoon forum sir

now i'm older and still want to play basketball and find that my adult competition actually plays seriously and has honed skills that i didn't. i wish everyone was still playing at an elementary level

You can no longer play horse as an adult, only organized play exists.

Nah, you're just retarded.

I'm there and I'm almost to the point I'm going to shoot someone for using the exit of the bus to enter or using the wrong lane in the market since I'm an autistic misanthropic fuck, I just wonder how much worse it would be with another 50 IQ points on top of that so I could also shit on 135-150 IQ tards and not just on normies and even asians.

In Pokemon double battles, a truly skilled player an beat meta teams with just a bunch of well-prepared unevolved Pokemon.

Shouldn't have let it die on 3 separate occasions. Rush mode was like sub ten minutes matches.

Sounds more like he's upset that being good at the game always entails a bunch of cryptic metagame bullshit over actual moment-to-moment mechanics.

CS is the antithesis for that kind of games, just watch how your enemies move to figure out how to best shoot them.

You can play horse instead of basketball, just like how you can play other games instead of sweaty PvP games.

Pokemon, because there is no punishment on earth more embarassing than losing at anything to a Pokemon fan.

The amount of things I'm expected to know is fucking insane in this game. And I think the part that makes it extra worse that people don't really think about is that the maps aren't as flat as something like Dota or CS; I'm expected to know a multi-floor map inside and out and account for any and all insane random outcomes that can happen due to build varieties.

You don't even understand. The time of casting suspicions on closet cheaters is over.
CS2 is full of cheaters who are so bad that you can well beat them without cheats of your own. Like they're completely blatant and it's clear they're cheating because they suck so hard at the game they couldn't even try playing otherwise. They get away with it because there's fuckall moderation of any kind.

CS is mostly about learning the angles, how to aim to instantly HS the first guy snooping, which is countered by proper use of grenades or coordinated rushes to you counter that and win the trade, which is countered by having more guys covering the angles, which is countered by baits, failing all that learning your spray patterns....
Tactical shooters like CS are mostly about football plans before falling down to who is a quicker gun.
Pick somewhat related

fun

The thread is about " highest skill ceiling"

Thinking on your post, I think one of the primary ways that Pubg is able to balance snipers vs other guns is the unpredictable map conditions.

Having a kitted out sniper rifle is great if the circle is an open clearing and you can get the high ground. Not so good when the circle is a building complex.

not being able always get the weapon you've invested the most time into

theres a thing called economy in cs, it prevents you from playing your weapon of choice multiple times in a match. cs eclipses pubg in terms of complexity on economy alone btw and the economy strats arent mapped out pre match but decided by the in game leader round for round.
theres also in-depth movement abilities not present in pubg at a comparable level, constant time pressure forcing you into hasty decisions due to restraints (a bit like speed chess in that regard whereas in pubg you can always back down from a fight thats not the last)

QuakeWorld. Lots of coping CS players here. If only you saw the original CS devs on ESReality talking about how they're deliberately making updates to the beta to make a game where noobs can have fun against pros, unlike Quake! CS has always been low-skill and for casuals.

Well the people who were Halo babies are at like 30 now

Being able to choose what weapon I get is higher skill than having to use whatever weapons I find.

You are so disingenuous. I know there's an economy in CS, and that has nothing to do with the fact you have to be able to use whatever weapon you happen to get.

If humping rods was a skill all the arena shoulders should have mismatching sizes.

Counter-Strike blows but the fact you're out here advocating for Battle Royale's retarded ass RNG loot is actually embarrassing.

not what I mean in particular. I loved Eternal but that new doom looks fucking ass. It does kinda seem like it's designed for console boomers yeah, but not in a good way. One example is the game Squad, they did an infantry combat overhaul which was the devs original vision finally getting added. It basically simulated accuracy deviation and cone-of-fire from older milsim games but in a more physical way. Took power away from the individual, make firefights more chaotic and added a bit of "randomness" to it. Which in turn meant you could engage with fights without needing to constantly be doing the usual FPS game sweatiness. I don't feel like really fleshing out what I mean but hopefully you get it.

People see something like that and think uhhh RNG bad. Lowers importance of raw mechanical skill. Boomer update, etc. But it was genuinely the most fun I'd had in the game and felt truly unique. They've since watered it down to where now it's some boring middle ground, where picking a side would actually be more enjoyable. Go full traditional gunplay or go full into the devs vision.

in pubg you can always back down from a fight thats not the last)

More ignorance. Somehow whether an enemy escapes has nothing to do with your skill.

who the fuck cares
i'm 25 and it's starting to be time to settle down

is actually embarrassing.

to you, because you have such limited processing ability you only want to play a game you can play by rote.

why do i have to learn and try!

imagine what an insufferable faggot this guy is holy shit. kys
correct

May come as a shock to you, but in sufficiently complex games, simply playing against a human being capable of thought means you can not rely on rote memorization. I wouldn't expect a Reddit-spacing child who plays BR games to understand that, though.

Well someone should tell them to grow out of it, but we're here arguing about video games so...

Yeah for as much shit as Fortnite (deservedly) gets as zoomzoomslop, I do think the build mechanics are pretty cool and I don't see that kind of stuff in basically any other game. It was innovative and also allowed for an interesting form of skill expression, I wish it had caught on more in the wider industry.

Nahh that's too complicated way of looking at a simple game, just shoot back faster

get pinged for 1% hp from 500 yard out

instantly put up a 5 star hotel cuck shed

interesting form of skill expression

lol, lmao even

Watching someone get shot in the head and a fucking 13 stories bunker just materializing around them instantly is some wacky shit ngl

It was cool in the coop mode, sure.

but in sufficiently complex games, simply playing against a human being capable of thought means you can not rely on rote memorization

Counterpoint: Chess.

Fucking retard. You say that after I've already proven the point with Chess.

if you cant afford a weapon you have to adapt, forcing you into riskier decisions to be better off in the longer run
anything comparable in pubg?

if theres a hotspot and you are getting third partied from all directions, do you continue your first fight with tunnel vision or back down in order to have better chances at an overall win?

you're right, every other fag crying at you is retarded
metacomp faggots ruined multiplayer

Smart people don't stay bitter. Either you will fix your brain, or you will accept you aren't as smart as you think you are.

if you're so smart, why aren't you happy

this is why depth and skill expression are not even inherently good. id rather play a dumbed down version of the game where we just shoot eachother. it's more fun

Chess

He fact he managed to 1v3 with that piece of garbage weapon makes me want to cry, but most of the credit goes to the brave soul rushing doors at that angle providing the perfect bait

Counterpoint: Chess.

After 10 to 15 moves, on average, you are now playing a Chess game that has literally never been played before. Mind explaining how you're going to rely on rote memorization to get into a winning position, retard? Please don't talk about games you don't play.

You're autistic and retarded. CS isn't that complex and you're watching a webm from the highest level of players in the world. There's endless amounts of bronze and silver shitters out there to play with.

pretty sure he tried to make a point about human skill by arguing about ai strategies

I shouldn't be required to do 10,000 years of homework to play a video game

This is why fighting games are dead, they all do this retarded shit. Punch, kick, block, special; that literally all any fighting game should have.

It was a good push by them. The guy long smokes and pushes to distract, guy runs up mid to capitalize on it and the dude long nearly kills the second guy so he gets finished off. Last dude was just retarded and had no idea what was going on. He should've been watching mid.

if theres a hotspot and you are getting third partied from all directions

You cannot escape, at least not players with decent aim.

The skill would be foreseeing that situation and avoiding it in the first place.

if you cant afford a weapon you have to adapt

No, you don't, because you can easily practice whatever weapons at whatever price and never have to use an unfamiliar weapon.

anything comparable in pubg?

Do I take my favored gun, or the gun I have more attachments for? Which guns do I think will be best for the final circle? Is a tactical pack or emt kit worth it here?

Anything comparable in CS?

The smart thing is to realize your bitterness helps no one and just let it go.
But being able to see how good things could be if people weren't retards and just letting yourself accept that is hard if you're also severely idealistic/autistic.
Also, severe self hatred doesn't help since it makes making the right choice for my own sake seem less enticing. That's why I enjoy video games.

discussion is about skill ceiling

start discussing average play

You are a dishonest person.

Please don't talk about games you don't play.

Lichess? I want this whole thread to watch me beat you.

this specific interaction isn't what I personally enjoy or find fun

this means the entire idea is conceptually bad because my opinion = fact

Nobody asked retard

Seems par for the course for someone who sees Battle Royale games as anything other than a casual romp you might play with younger family members.

discussion is about skill ceiling

start discussing average play

I'm not discussing average play you fucking troglodyte. Do you really think GMs make consistent perfect engine moves after their board reaches a unique position? You are so fucking stupid its unreal. Stop pressing enter twice every line, by the way, you retarded Redditor.

Couldn't Valve do things to make CS2 much more popular for normies and casuals?
Like I get that it's a fucking huge game and isn't struggling for players, but when you go to the casual tab and choose deathmatch why the fuck isn't there an optional pool that's just "ALL MAPS" for deathmatch? If you're just spawning over and over again running around shooting dudes who gives a fucking shit if you're on mirage or office? Why the fuck are they separated? This is something small and simple but with the normalfag non-competitive friends I've played with their biggest complaint was map repetitiveness.

theyd probably do well. People that have played halo for a while jump on everything and use explosives jump higher.

'm not discussing average play

after 10 to 15 moves, on average

I pity someone like you, that cannot even go 2 posts without blatantly contradicting yourself.

Fischer random was created specifically because GM's memorize lines 50 turns out.

Stop pressing enter twice every line

But if it's so easy to trigger you, why would I ever stop?

Way to chicken out of a chess challenge, though. Demonstrating objective intellectual inferiority that will stick with you for the rest of your miserable life.

Basically you are just complaining about getting sniped here.

I'm quoting a developer of a major series explaining how they lowered the skill gap in their game.

It's clear there is no use talking to you. You're a moron desperately trying to justify your inflated ego.

Funny, I figured the same about you as I was typing my post but I was dumb enough to attempt to have a discussion with someone who clearly doesn't actually want one and will just put words in my mouth, insult me for them, and otherwise ignore anything I say without taking it into genuine consideration. My bad. Forgot I was on Anon Babble for a moment.

the UFC games have potential in this regard. Everything about it is intuitive once you learn the controls. Left punch, right punch. Left kick, right kick. Mix and match them.
After a short while, every part of the controller feels like a part of your body, and all you're doing is getting creative. Not saying traditional fighting games don't do this but to me they are not user friendly so I always got filtered. Even trying to move back and forth feels cumbersome. Having to LEARN combos?
In UFC 2 and 3 I could make any combo I want just by remembering which buttons correspond to which limbs. Add in some modifiers for spinning kicks, add in ducking, etc.
It's so simple and so satisfying and immensely fun for casual play.

but EA spent no time improving the visuals and it just looks fuck ugly now. The animations are shit, the grappling looks shit. But they did spend a ton of time listening to the top few players pontificate on how to balance the cheese or whatever, and nerfed the freedom.

People who play Minecraft will probably do well in IWBTG, they jump and die a lot too

will just put words in my mouth, insult me for them, and otherwise ignore anything I say without taking it into genuine consideration.

Delicious projection from someone who has to rely on skill barriers to protect his ego.

I pity someone like you, that cannot even go 2 posts without blatantly contradicting yourself.

The funniest thing here is I think you aren't baiting. I'm not talking about average players, that is the number of moves it takes when playing perfect openings to reach a unique position. Average (see: bad) players reach unique positions way earlier because they don't play perfect openings. You are genuinely such a fucking retard.

im a scrub so this is irrelevant to higher level play but man I love SMGs. it throws players off because you can just shoot and move, they miss their initial spray and start panicking while you pepper them up

'm not discussing average play

after 10 to 15 moves, on average

ESL spotted. Unsurprising considering only chinks even play PUBG at this point.

I get it, bro, you got filtered. Calm down.

you can easily practice pubg weapons as well, theres tdm. no, not every single high skill gunfight is an instant kill since you can also jiggle angles and use environmental sound cues.
cs has questions such as

what guns do the opponents probably have based on their current performance

if they probably have bad guns, do you pick a less lethal gun with a higher kill money reward to optimize the economy while increasing the risk of a round loss?

do you buy guns at all when theres no money, do you throw in one expensive gun and plan around protecting it?

but honestly, the things you chose to point out about pubg just make you sound like a noob in that game too so this conversations is beginning to feel a bit useless.

You really envy that state? Because I'm pretty much there.

Same. I was tested at 12 and scouted out for a math camp. I ended up breezing through Real + Complex Analysis through Zorich + Rudin and Ahlfors at 13. I was reading Dummit & Foote plus Rotman at 14. Regular, engineer-based math seemed insulting to me, something fit for babies. I started a PhD at 17. My ego was enormous and I genuinely thought I could change the world, I thought I was a newborn Galois or something to that effect. Now 7 years later I have no PhD and I work at a shoe store. I feel dumber with every year that goes by.
Funny stuff.

ceiling would imply there is a limit to how well someone can play. How do you even measure that in a first person shooter? What is the limit of a players aim? Couldnt their aim always be a little more consistent or faster? And thats just one aspect of the game. At first I was thinking macro decisions would be easier to decide on a "correct" answer in a given situation but I guess it would come down to alot of averages of outcomes that the opportuninty cost presents.

Why do people cheat at online games? What do you gain? Kicking ass at a vidya should be something that feels good because you've learned the mechanics and put the effort in, which in itself can be seen as kind of pathetic since it's just a vidya at the end of the day. But why cheat? What is there to gain? The victory has no reward. You've accomplished nothing.

So, how many moves were GM's memorizing their lines to back in Fischer's day?

Because you clearly are avoiding that topic, since it once again demonstrates you are subhuman.

So, how many moves were GM's memorizing their lines to back in Fischer's day?

Non-sequitur

Because you clearly are avoiding that topic, since it once again demonstrates you are subhuman.

I accept your concession

Funny stuff

"McMurphy laughs because he knows you have to laugh at the things that hurt you, just to keep yourself in balance, just to keep the world from driving you plumb crazy."

Do you feel you have a decent understanding of why your life has ended up this way?

I recommend 'Fate of Empires' for how I understood it.

Wrong.
In terms of ceiling and difficulty in decision making Dota has regressed to below chess level.
The balance was always execution vs decision making vs calculations for Dota. Calculations are the same as before but the outcome is more random now.
Decision making is ironically easier because the calculations matter less.
Execution matter less overall.
Chess can now claim a higher ceiling based on harder calculations and harder decision making with low execution.
Old Dota was area based, nu-dota is groups of troglodytes flipping coins until it lands on heads.

Non-sequitur

LOL

I accept your concession

Dude, everyone knows you conceded the moment you insulted my chess ability and backed out of a challenge.

No need to play you in chess, you don't even know how long it takes to be out of the opening.

*crack*

*sip*

Aaahhh...

YEP.... Quake 3 was good game. Heh heh heh.

It's part self-deception and part sadism.

They derive joy from denying others a good game, and also are very dishonest with themselves, so they still feel accomplished for cheating ('everyone cheats', 'not cheating is for losers', etc.)

Non-sequitur

not only that, barely coherent in general
how many layers of brainrot does one need to develop an autistic fixation for chess and pubg while being good at neither?

not cs lmfao
shit game, definitely requires thousands of hours to understand it fully. wouldn't say its the most skill tho
this
real answer: quake or tf2

kek that description fits dark souls PvP
like I had fun with it because I was stubborn enough to learn, the game is diverse but not that crazy diverse, but just being aware of an enemy strategy often made the difference between instant loss and easy victory, and people online liked to get crafty with that stuff so it always felt like you could see someone try something new.

The only way to never lose is to never play

Do Americans enlarge themselves to safely contain this oversized and brittle ego?
Stay bitch.

I'm talking about the highest skill players

Ok, so how many moves have the highest skill players been memorizing their openings to for half a century

NOT RELEVANT!!!

Your lack of dignity is astounding.

so how many moves have the highest skill players been memorizing their openings to for half a century

how about you learn coherent english

Lucky for you, you've never had a brain to rot.

Way to insult your own reading comprehension.

TF2 over CS

we know you don't actually play these

Maybe you just don't know what rote memorization actually means.

doesnt even argue against his mediocrity, replies with "no u" instead

nah your sentences are simply ugly

No need to play you in chess

Because we both know you are such a coward you are afraid of embarrassing yourself, even anonymously.

Lel

I usually charge people for tutoring, I'm not going to give you a high quality replay to learn from for free. You have bitcoin?

which in itself can be seen as kind of pathetic since it's just a vidya at the end of the day

I don't understand why people on this board say this kind of shit. Why would someone not feel good about that? Normal people feel good about finishing fucking crossword puzzles, reading a slop book, winning 800 elo chess matches, or improving at their bad art they'll never make any profit off of or even show to anybody. Why are you even on this board if you have such a miserably low opinion of the hobby?

Lul, implying you're a better teacher than stockfish.

It's quite apparent you don't have any demonstrable skills whatsoever.

Tf2 over cs is the right decision though.
There's what, 2~3 weapon types in cs? None of it distinct enough to necessitate silhouette outlining because you usually die within 5 seconds of engagement. All the utility is in nades.
Compared to tf2 where they made camping a balanced class with strong tradeoffs, it's really not much of a competition.

btfo over pubg, proceeds to larp as a chess gm

nah your sentences are simply ugly

Yea, I put less effort into making beautiful things for wretched creatures like you.

if it takes you effort to make sentences have decent structure i feel bad for you

Dude, memorizing perfect throws on tiny maps is the peak of skill

The counter strike players proved PubG superior with their very first argument.

chess

You just feel bad, period.

and im assuming thats where you stopped reading, nice input though

about what, ranjid?

tries to talk shit

runs from a challenge

You will never know what the meaning of the word 'dignity' is.

again, not everyone itt is the same person

What was complicated or non-intuitive about DaS PvP except deadangling? I feel like it's the only thing you really had to learn about to not get fucked. I miss it. It was funny as fuck 180 force blasting people off bridges at Sens.

Man, I've never seen someone insult their own reading comprehension and think it was a win.

Reminder than GunZ is coming back in the near future.

isn't this game so basic the meta is essentially manipulating internet lag

are you just describing your own posts now?

That changes nothing, you clearly have no dignity.

nice tantrum

booty blasted nigga, fighting literal ghosts

ngl the only time I've really cheated in an online game against other players was the original CoD MW2, and it was partly out of so many other players already doing it, but mostly out of straight malice towards the game because I thought it was so disappointing. And I had paid full 50€ for it on launch, so free ragehacks for ages until eventually ban (200 hours played in). On a normal server model it would have never worked because server admins would kick and ban cheaters when they saw them play.

It's not really defensible, I didn't even pretend to be legit, people are free to switch the lobby as soon as they see that shit. What I will never understand is cheating in secret to make yourself look better than you are, because all I can see that doing is robbing you of any fun of a game based on player-player competition. If a game is hard just accept it as part of the game and move on if you don't like it, but don't water your own experiences by circumventing parts of it, you'll never enjoy it for what it is that way.

you can easily practice pubg weapons as well

Pubg has more guns, and you cannot simply buy the ones you are most comfortable with, basically choosing 5-6 guns to train and ignore the rest. You can absolutely choose to ignore most of the weapons in CS if you so choose, and only pick a small handful to focus on, since you know you can always get them.

What I will never understand is cheating in secret to make yourself look better than you are

these people believe that they are elevating their skill to the level it deserves to be at but isnt (due to bullshit reason xyz)
actually talked to a lot of closet cheater teammates and its always thinly veiled mental illness

of course but its enough to eventually always have a weapon on hand that you feel comfortable with
if you find yourself with a gun that you cant handle, you git gud at it
in no way did i describe pubg as an easy game, just as overall less complex than cs - enter the stage: the esl schizo turning himself into a lolcow in two games at once

What was complicated or non-intuitive about DaS PvP

Animation priorities.

deadangling

I feel like it's the only thing you really had to learn about to not get fucked

Maybe in 2011.

Not exactly, the connection lag works to the detriment of both players, you're just both a bit delayed and constantly given bit less time to react to everything. What you're trying to do is manipulate your opponent into doing a misstep you can predict to get your own attack in, like them rolling so you hit them on their recovery frames, them attacking as you predict so you can parry it (you have to be early to animations on your screen), or them simply walking too close towards you trying to backstab you as you step aside and instead backstab them because they were walking forwards.

any game is extremely difficult to win when theres a group of friends coordinating against you and yourre alone.

Some RTS or some fighting game I would guess. I'm not really good enough to know about which in particular has the highest skill ceiling but those are by far the most demanding genres to play competitively for me.

didn't get poise broken with a 2h claymore running attack while wearing full elite

Epic infinite poise cheat, shitter lol

in literally any pvp game that has a decently active playerbase there will be always be someone who will absolutely destroy you 100% of the time. the simpler the game, the more that subtlety and precision will matter. OP's question is peak stupidity.

If a game is hard just accept it as part of the game and move on if you don't like it

Cheaters can't do that. They don't want to admit a game is just too hard for them. There must be another reason that it's not their fault and cheating is them making it fair. It's also why cheaters are often the first to call other people out, usually before toggling, and insist that everybody else is doing it. It's funny too because they'll say that cheating made them so much more aware of when somebody else is, as if they have any idea of what a good enough player is capable of, and act like they're more enlightened than genuinely good players who logically have a much better idea of what feels natural to play against and what's reasonable for somebody to do. Retards will boost themselves to a rank where everybody is so much better than their real skill level that they may as well be cheating and take it as proof that they actually are.

these people believe that they are elevating their skill to the level it deserves to be at but isnt (due to bullshit reason xyz)

Yeah that's a shame and I think I've seen it.
I personally enjoy CS for how easy it is to screw up in literally endless ways, or how on the flipside there's always something small, simple and easy to figure out to learn the game a little bit better, yet everyone's always a bit handicapped about it one way or another since it tugs your focus into multiple things at once.
If you remove need to aim or gain additional knowledge with cheats you invariably take a part out of the whole. Mental illness sounds about right if you somehow manage to actually justify using cheats vs other people like that, no one in their right mind would be that egoistic.

kek, not a bad eye but no, 61 poise, giant gauntles

I used to think it was quake, but actually it's dota
because you need to learn the equivalent of a semester's worth of material just to understand all the items, skills, and interactions just to be at the skill floor
then you need the mechanical skill to play the game right and force rock-paper-scissors interactions to actually be rock-paper-scissors
then you need the social intelligence to work with/guide the four other retards on your team to win because a single player's impact is too high, you literally can't do it without them and worse they can force you to lose easily

fucking melee

uh oh stinky WHERE YOU AAAATTT

weiqi

Tony Hawk

Skill issue get filtered

(note: doing meta compfag shit and not just memes like trimping, b-hopping, or caber crouching does infact make the game unplayable for new or casual players)

It's human nature to find the absolute best way to do something. Sadly this is bad for enjoyment in video games. Doesn't matter what a developer does the player base will autisticly find a way to drain any fun out of it. Then people will follow the findings of the autists only to then complain about how they're not having fun anymore.

bro you coming over to our smash party?

why are so many melee players like this?

is she a real girl?

images you can smell

100% this Im so tired of casuals bitching like this fuckface

floor painting simulator

high skill ceiling

Dota 2/League are games for failed StarCraft pros, so it can't be those

CS2/Valorant are games for failed Arena shooter pros, so it can't be any of those

no adults ever play basketball casually or at a low level nor would they ever consider it. If you do so you're just an arrested development fag who should go to an elementary school.

most good faith compfag, any statement looks ridiculous with retarded framing.

she

real girl

Yeah I seen some zoomers play this shit, it's wild. I don't like the game but there's a high skill ceiling there.

Decently mechanically complex especially when you pack the active items in. Lots of build complexity, requires a lot of coordination and foresight.

And then your quake,starcraft/aoe.
Deadlock is up there too. Dota layered with pretty complex movement system and shooting that isnt completely braindead

142ish myself and I'm sort of there. Utter disdain and bitterness for basically every other human. However, I appear to be incapable of feeling loneliness because it has never bothered me, and my worldview has brought me out of depression. I honestly just get angry at people that I perceive as stupider than me. It's a bad habit born out of arrogance but it hasn't led me astray yet

lol any tf2 or quake answers should be thrown right in the garbage quake players couldnt evolve past that shit game same goes with tf 2 players

Mavel Rivals

Prolly fightan or Starsiege Tribes

Nobody else mentioning tribes proves my point.

A lot of people mention quake which also confirms my suspicion.
Tribes does everything quake does that makes it hard (precision, movement and map knowledge)
While also adding moving at way higher speeds, flying, and projectile inheritance

The reason it isn’t mentioned is the same reason no tribes remake ever goes anywhere.
The skill floor is just too high, getting into tribes is basically impossible,
A noob cannot hit anything. In order to calculate where you’re shooting you have to take your own speed and your own trajectory in 3D space into account as the projectile will inherit part of your speed and direction.
In order to hit anything you also have to do the same for your enemy on top of predicting where he wants to go, as projectile speeds aren’t that fast and distances are high

dude I fucking loved Tribes. weird to think I was playing that shit at age 7

Same. Which is also why it’s never coming back.
You cannot make a game where you have to compete with lads who got 20 years Of expirience while you literally cannot hit anything
Tribes ascend tried by doing hitscan weapons but it lead to an awful hitscan meta

Tribes is basically flight control simulator with guns. You can’t sell that to people that aren’t already hooked

Rocket League

no tribes remake ever goes anywhere.

I'm sure that's the reason and not because every tribes remake has been

poorly marketed(because that fucking matters no matter how much the "just maek a good game" nodev fags claim otherwise)

poorly developed(lmao midair, lmao tribes 3)

poorly managed(tribes ascend)

tf2

Lol wut, tf2 is almost halo-tier casual

ITS FUCKING FIGHTING GAMES YOU NABS, genre has quite literally a nearly infinite skill ceiling so tough/v/ will invent 1000 excuses to not play them

doesnt look fun

Map size

so tough/v/ will invent 1000 excuses to not play them

Nigga, Anon Babble seethes and makes excuses for literally every remotely competitive game.

You cannot convince me fighting games take skill when fucking DSP was the best North American Street Fighter 2 player at one point.

nah they're a meme especially the new ones that are massively dumbed down strategically and mechanically

in this extended metaphor, you two retards are still attempting to horseplay in a competitive environment instead of going to the local park with your dipshit friends, declaring "WHY IS THE NBA SO FUCKING SWEATY"
stay in your lane, gamerdads

It's only unenjoyable when losing isn't fun. Games like CS2 are miserable if you just get one tapped from across the map repeatedly. Dota 2 is at least has multiple stages of the game that can be enjoyable(or miserable), early, mid, and late game. I've lost games in Dota 2 that I had a blast in by bullying the enemy lane early game. Binary games like CS2 are a slog. Also friends often make up for how miserable these games can be.

fighting games arent hard lol what's hard is playing such a boring genre for over 10 hours a 2d side scroller that isnt dynamic cant come close to games like dota 2/cs2/league of legends/starcraft

getting stomped in MOBAs is not fun either

CS2 has the lowest one since everyone is allowed to cheat.

enjoyable(or miserable)

reading

Not even full, they are literally only cheaters.
Anyone trying to defend it is cheating at this point.

Ark: Survival Evolved

If ONLY I could still beat them without being banned.
Now they're all grouping on discord and if you dare killing them they will say you are the cheater, will mass report you and will kick you.

Valve doesn't only need to ban cheats, but shit like discord so these subhumans can't do that shit.

Hop in a CS match and randomly type "stop cheating". You'll see how they react. It's all retarded children from third world countries paying to cheat thinking they will be the next pro player.
These things are so retarded they actually believe no one knows they cheat

dota 2 probably. far and away the most knowledge required to play it well on top of there being execution barriers involved.

Because they're retarded. If you beat them while they are cheating, you're obviously cheating for their tiny peanut brain.
Literally anything cheater say is worthless. Just laugh at them and remind them they are subhumans, that's about all you can do.

Seeing how it's full of russians and other retarded slav countries I'd bet it's the opposite

youtube.com/watch?v=XdkDjsBiO58#t=2m50

So those people can play one of the most complex games on earth atm but you can't says more about you then anything else

It's only unenjoyable when losing isn't fun.

I can read. You can lose fun matches in CS as well.

Most likely yeah

Hell, Anon Babble seethes and makes excuses for fucking SINGLE PLAYER GAMES, the only difference between fighting games and anything else in that regard is that FGs are niche enough that the players actually take turbo casuals seriously and pat themselves on the back hearing the copes they make without realizing they say it about any form of challenge or anything that strays from their comfort zone.

And if you really want to talk about Anon Babble excuses and being tough, most of this board is so filtered by shooters they'll swear up and down that half the players in any given match are outright cheating and throw an absolute fit if you disagree with them.

uh huh thats true and doesn't go against anything i said are you ok?

Because a pure chad alpha male can't be playing video games if he wants to be like him, or at least that's what most guys on instagram tell these kids nowadays.

it actually does but you're being obtuse.

cmon now sonny be specific

do this

and say words like
"this means wrong because poo poo pee pee"

Gunz

Deadlock

LMAO they kicked that football all the way from T spawn kek
genius

worms

I miss this map :(

I was gonna make some disparaging remarks about it but the more I think about it the more it's just genuinely sad how many anons have apparently internalized that kind of bullshit about a hobby they still clearly want to engage in. Niggers really need to stop worrying about how pathetic it is to like and take pride in nerd shit and worry about how much more pathetic it is to let the opinions of random faggots prevent you from enjoying things.

We live in an inauthentic post-irony world. You can't be passionate about anything or you are a "sperg". People use self deprecation as armor and irony as a shield. It is super fucking pathetic, honestly.

the concept of your post implies that losing in mobas is substantially more enjoyable than losing in counter strike but lists reasons that aren't exclusive to mobas.

It's only unenjoyable when losing isn't fun

as if theres not an equivalent for each game

Games like CS2 are miserable if you just get one tapped from across the map repeatedly.

as if there's not an equivalent from each game

I've lost games in Dota 2 that I had a blast in by bullying the enemy lane early game.

I've lost games in cs2 that I had a blast in by (insert strategy)

Binary games like CS2 are a slog.

random undefined and unfounded claim

Also friends often make up for how miserable these games can be.

True and I don't think it's part of your argument but just replying to this too

are you happy

babysit brazilians?

dota isn't even popular in brazil, league is
did some brazillian cuck you?

EVE Online and its not even close

If you call socially engineering autists a skill then sure

Dominions.
Damn, I wish I had the time for this game.

How many actual girls are in this picture?

Fighting games are pure autistm and this is comeing from a guy who play "autism sims".
However "autism sims" are fun, fighting games aren't.

However "autism sims" are fun, fighting games aren't.

Because with sims games, you can simply learn the game at your own pace, Fightans? You're forced to study your opponent's moves

Could be, also all the fighting game players as a kid (elementary school age) were real dickheads. Wouldn't even tell you the controls and just wanted to stomp you without any resistance.

Yeah metafagging sucks, especially in league and dota. You got people reading online guides and effective builds who don't understand the game wondering why I rushed aghs on drow in a lane where the guy I was playing with was not very aggressive and his team wasn't roaming to gank me. He's typing furiously into chat when he's looking at my items (because he's fukin dead, lol) while I'm farming harder and snowballing because I can farm lanes and jungle faster. I'm now level 20 everyone else is level 10, I buy deso and carry the team hard but the guy doesn't understand this because to him A->B->C= win not understanding that the game is far more complex than simply buying the right items in the right order and you should be buying your items based on your team comp, their team comp, your teams playstyle, your own playstyle and their teams playstyle, effectively making most "guides" ineffective. The number of times I've had to tell teammates to buy bkb against storm spirit is ridiculous but they don't think to buy an item that makes you immune to magic against a guy who does magic damage because it wasn't on their moms shopping list.

the netcode makes it better though tbf cs2's is shit, just not PubG shit

The sheer amount of autism required for Dominions is amazing.

post you're rank

It's not even that bad, after a couple of games you figure out what spells are actually good.
The thing that takes real skill and autism is picking all the shitty meme spells/summons and turning them into a winning strategy.

lmao look at this boring shit gameplay fighting games are legit abomination of a genre

get 1 ms too much

lose game

hurr de hurr hurr

Im le smart

Posts tranime

Let me guess, you "measured" your IQ using an online test

MOBAs are dumbed down RTS games for retards.