33

If painted creations don't have free will, how did Verso choose be be such a massive faggot?

Let's ignore the fact he killed Gustave for his own purposes and intended to kill everyone in the party in the same way after using them, and the fact Painted Alicia did not want to say goodbye to begin with since she hated him for obvious reasons,

You painters, doing whatever you want, bastards...

Better kill everyone in my actual world to make sure you are all happy.

The fuck even is the argument here?

Just because he's not an incestuous pedophile like you doesn't mean he's a faggot.

Wait really? The writer is a self insert? Which one? I haven't played the game but reading the shitshow around it is fun.

that's just OP's headcanon because Lune is asian, and the lead writer is asian

The fuck even is the argument here?

the argument is love, empathy and imposter syndrome

The fact they have the same hair color, are the same age and she is literally the only asian female in the entiire game is not at ALL a case of self insertion, gentlemen. Purely coincidental. Whoop dee doo.
Anyway, Lune.

her vagina to calm her shit down

Creampie with shit in her vagina? Sorry, tldr

The whole reason he's so fucked up is because Aline gave him real Verso's memories.
To him, real Alicia and Renoir are every bit as real family to him as the painted ones.
The canvas was destroying them, starting with Aline, so he saved them.

Yeah, so just imposter syndrome, then. Which even his bacon sister got over.
Sorry, it may be understandable and people may be different and heal at different rates, but that doesn't make him less annoying or a less shit point of view as a player character.

since she hated him for obvious reasons,

Do you actually think she hates him? She resents him for his choice but painted Alicia loves her brother, her letter implies as much.

And he is aware the memories are fake. And she gave everyone else in her family the memories of their counterparts. And everyone else was able to make decisions of their own.
What are you not understanding?
This is not a "there is no explanation" post, this is "Verso is a garbage character and an infuriating addition because he would sooner help the literal source of his misery than try to appreciate those around him because his fake memories tell him something he knows by now is fake and bullshit, and has had 100+ years to come to terms with the fact".
His existence is mired in being literally incapable of learning, character growth or self development, this makes him retarded and therefore an annoying character.

Not on that level anon.
Aline manipulated every other painting so they fit their vision, but not Verso. She ported version 1:1 and he knows what's happening to her and her family due to his death.
He loves his real family and knows everything in the world is just his painting, so he at the very least wants to save his real family.
You hate him and that's ok, but missing his writing so hard is retarded.

nooooo you dont understand muh bright colors muh black and white muh horror music

Her letter was before he murdered her dad, hid the information away from Alicia to manipulate her and kicked out the Paintress dooming everyone involved, anon.
It's a "i can see where you are going but I still hope you won't be a fucking idiot" letter, and then he was a fucking idiot and basically decided his not actual family was more important than her and Painted Renoir.
She does not ask Alicia to wait so she can say goodbye. She, HERSELF, guides her to gommage her then and there without directing a word to Verso which she could just do. But doesn't.

Verso is such a next level of lying deceptive asshole that his own father portrays his essence and core of his character as a masked monster.

THEY
ARE
NOT
HIS
FAMILY
It doesn't matter if you were given information in your brain if you KNOW IT IS NOT TRUE. AND THREE TIMES YOUR LIFETIME HAVE GONE BY SINCE YOU GOT THAT INFORMATION.
His writing is clear, it's just absolutely retarded and you seem to be not much brighter for it yourself.

you can't help what you remember

Yes, you literally can.
That's effectively what time does.

Her letter was before he murdered her dad,

She knew her plan, in full.

as a masked monster.

... because he put a front in front of his family that he liked painting.
All his masks are about liking to paint when he doesn't.

Yes and the letter was her last ditch effort to appeal to stop him

And hoped he would not go through with it. What do you think "Alicia please find a better way out of this you who have lived amongst us" stands for?
"I give you my blessing, please murder us all, totes fine"?

Considering he lies about everything in the game, literally everything, I can't imagine him having a mild distaste towards painting was what that entire Axon was based on, anon.

That wouldn't make sense, because adult Verso was very clear he doesn't like painiting. His only canvas was his childhood canvas. So he stopped painting after around 12 years and never painted another until his death at 26. Axons were painted when Renoire fought Aline. So it can't be about Verso's dislike of painting that Renoire and all family clearly knew for ~14 years at that point.

You heard his three masks.
All about painting and putting a front about it.

literally everything

He doesn't lie about anything after act 2.
He fully supported Alicia's decission to fight off renoir and keep the canvas alive.
Then he simply changes his opinion when she lies to her father, but he wasn't lying before that.

after act 2

... So he doesn't lie for the whole trip between the spot the are standing and just fighting Renoir, considering everything else is just side content with no actual input from anyone.
Thank goodness he managed to hold it together that long.

He doesn't lie about anything after Act 2.

Kek still didn't give her the letter and pretended it didn't exist, just so happens Alicia got rebooted AND found the letter by coincidence.
So the only time he didn't lie was effectively by omission. Amazing.

That's the least of what paint Verso deserved after what he did. He killed an ENTIRE WORLD without giving anyone a chance, without even considering telling them, without thinking of asking his friends for help or thinking of another solution. Maelle even tells him "Why do you care so much about your paint sister dying when you literally want the entire canvas to be destroyed" and his only reaction is "b-but you don't get it"
This mong doesn't suffer enough in either ending.

Verso just doesn't want a familly to kill itself for a figment that doesn't really exist, it's not that hard to comprehend. I really don't get the hate

That's because you are autistic.

Middle-of-the-bell-curve-kun...

This game convinced me to grow long hair.

That's the least of what paint Verso deserved after what he did. He killed an ENTIRE WORLD

meh all gone after renoir inevitably gommaged them anyway

He loved his mom and his family, so he did what he had to do to help them

True on the surface but deep down he was just a selfish fuck that wanted to end his suffering by killing himself. He saw his out and took it.
If you do the Monoco relationship he tells Verso that he sees through his bullshit but is such a bro that he helps him anyway even if that means he dies.
Maelle was no better, she saw an opportunity to huff paint and would die for the chance.

We are all hypocrites.

Verso is just mad he didn't get his way yet again, fucker was about to lecture painted Alicia on not killing herself despite himself having planned the death of her family (the reason why she wants to kill herself) for literal decades only to be able to slit his wrists.

The cutscene that happens right after with him admitting he purposefully let Gustave die for Maelle to be easier to manipulate is just here to show how horrible of a human being he really is and how you shouldn't listen to him. He's adept at lecturing people on topic he has no business lecturing them on, playing NG+ and seeing his interactions with his painted father makes it even more painfully obvious.

Fight as Maelle

it doesn't show The Last Stand of Expedition 33.

missed kino

But she kills off her self-insert, even though she wants to fuck Verso?

Wrong, that's only the people of Lumière, Gestrals and Grandis were still alive.

Julie was right, he's just a fuckboy who shouldn't be trusted.

No she doesn't. In fact she clearly thinks of Maelle's ending, because in her ending the song lyrics explicitly state Verso is fucking Lune, even though it's entirely optional to do it.
Bitch went the route of making sure they fuck even if you didn't make them.

Verso ending is still the canon one lol, stay mad.

because in her ending the song lyrics explicitly state Verso is fucking Lune

Lolwut post proof then

709696452

Bait so noteworthily weak it deserves an answer for it, yet not a (you)

To be fair, Maelle has a really good fucking reason to huff paint. Especially since while the game really likes talking about how "Alicia doesn't want to leave the canvas because she grieves for Verso" and dismisses the "Alicia doesn't want to leave the canvas because in the real life she's a cripple condemned to a miserable existance" angle.
There is like 90% chance, she'll just paint another canvas to lose herself in and the story starts all over again.

What's up with all the love this game is getting anyway? The little I know about it, from a thread here and there popping up here, makes me believe this is some sort of Undertale but for chuds

can't deny it

stay wrong and mad

Their whole dynamic is just bizarre. They have zero chemistry, unlike Verso and Sciel who actually share a mindset. They can only have sex once in very specific circumstances, and it's shown as an ego thing because she's pissed at her parents. Her ending death stare is the same no matter what, it's the same "you can't just kill me when I've never even started living". Even in the Maelle ending, painted Verso would be Alicia's toy, he can't just go do whatever, and even if he could, I doubt Lune would want him after learning his plan was to kill everyone and that they had zero worth to him.
Such a weird part of the game.

it's a good game, it's that simple

Get out and flee
I beg you
Dream portrait
Imperfect
Cursed painting
Canvas of a false life

bleak

It's just a good game, it stood out by going against industry trends with a reasonable budget and actual sincerity.

for chuds

I've genuinely heard nothing culture war nonsense related about this game from any side. No journo complaints, no antiwoke grifter tirades, it's refreshing.

broom and rock people

yeah no souls

Chroma is their soul albeit.

The only place that tries to bring the culture war nonsense to this game is Anon Babble. And Anon Babble is Anon Babble.

So it's not a real soul then, because Verso's fragment isn't 'made' out of chroma

You quite literally have no means of knowing that howeverthough

So humans dont have souls on the outside but get souls when they enter a canvas lol?

You don't know what the world outside the painting is like or how it works.

33rd of December

oh em gee I'm in a painting!!

lol, is this the extent of the game because that's an Oblivion sidequest

Verso did nothing wrong

Yes, now you can stop giving a shit about it

That's not his argument. He's making an ontological argument.
Lumierians are identical to any other human, they act and feel as such and perceive their reality and existence like we do, except the gods of their world are known, and they're cruel demiurges.
If the existence of a supreme being immediately invalidates your existence as "fake" because you were "created", the same thing applies to you and me, or Renoir and his family. ALLAH could change the world as he wants, or kill you at any moment, how do you know your choices are yours and not divinely preordained or influenced?
That's why the "fakeness" argument shouldn't be involved, it's a bottomless hole.

That's not even that big of a twist. You can figure it out halfway through Act 2. And by the time you get to Act 3, the game just assumes you've already figured it out. It never goes the blunt way by directly saying "OH, BY THE WAY, EVERYTHING YOU DID WAS IN THE PAINTING!".

post that maelle webm from earlier, you know the one

Well, we have zero proof.
Meanwhile they can literally turn into petals and get brainwashed as they see fit by their gods.

the same thing applies to you and me

lol lmao religious schizos are the worst

It is quite literally part of the Lyrics of the prologue. It's basically the first sentence you'll hear in the game.
Not exactly an "OMG" moment.

You will have to argue in a few decades that AI has a soul if we build it a lifelike skinsuit

I'm not saying that I believe in it. But other people do, yet they don't rope immediately because "my existence is fake I will never be God".

This, if you're french the whole game plot is basically spoiled in song lyrics

There is no AI. Transformer architecture hits diminishing returns immediately and only marketeers disagree.
Wake me up when you can conjure people out of clay with magic.

You can't compare the shitty painted world to ours. They literally have horrific monsters and die very early and know they will so they prepare their whole life for death.

Maelle's ending is justified solely due to how Verso deserves it.

I am not even French and I still got spoiled by the lyrics, because the songs REALLY like to talk about Alicia, Aline, Renoir and Verso, so I assumed they are much more important then the game lets on.
Also, the literally first song you hear in the game is called "Alicia".

They literally have horrific monsters and die very early and know they will so they prepare their whole life for death.

They have ritualized the death they cannot prevent but still fight tooth and nail for their existence, that's the whole point of Act 1.

Wake me up when you can conjure people out of clay with magic

god did this already

my sister also chose that ending because she didnt like him, it seems to be a popular choice among women

I first went with Verso ending, but then I started thinking about it and realized how horseshit this ending is to Alicia, so I went with Maelle next. Sure, it's wrong and irresponsible, but it's not as if Verso's ending gives her some alternative.

Ok and? My point is the painted world is a hundred times worse than ours.

Yeah no shit french would make the worst ending canon

but it's not as if Verso's ending gives her some alternative

wouldnt it allow her to go back to her body and then paint any new canvas she wanted at any time

watching old trailers

Gustave squaring up on Dualliste's fight

DEEEEEEEEEVVVVVSSSSSSS

It's already stated there are no canon endings and there never will be, so no cope from either side will ever change that.

How come women dislike the vaguely Mediterranean pretty boy alpha who cucked the nice guy beta, who gets all the women, with a tragic backstory that the game really tries to make us sympathize with?
Incelbros, is our narrative wrong?

I've thought about this recently. There isn't much for Alicia outside. Her family hold resentment toward her for what she did, it hurts for her to even breath, she is forever disfigured and she has to go back to a war against the Writers which may cause more grief and suffering to the Dessendres.

Weird because Verso is the most feminine character with all his victim playing, manipulation, lies and betrayal.

Without the people she loves and the world half her memories are from, that feels like a breeding ground for PTSD.

Women self insert as Maelle and think she's justified in what she does.

He's a nihilistic arsehole, yes

Women are intelligent? Wtf why did you people lie to me

Ohnonononono

Those who chose Maelle's ending only prolong the pain. The canvas is getting destroyed anyway after Maelle slowly dies from painting.

well the people she loves are her brother and her party members for the most part, I don't see why she can't repaint them? Aline initially painted her entire fake family from memories and even made them inherit them, maelle can't just paint sciel, lune etc from memory somewhere else?

Lol Aline and Maelle are the eptiome of overemotional psycho women who ignore family for their selfishness.

verso as a 12 year old boy who doesn't want to paint says they have souls

Clea who is the best painter in the house and is much older and more mature doesn't agree agree with him

why is one option more valid than the other?

Fucking Lune just so he can rub her despair in later is very spiteful female behavior, he was too based for that

Verso really said "i'm going to kill everyone... in minecraft" but instead of minecraft it's the painting

Veros is God of this world and Clea is basically satan

Yes, but this doesn't stop her from getting lost in yet another canvas, this time of her own making, because the issue of her being a self-loathing cripple is still there and just accepting Verso's death is not going to magically fix that. And upon which, the whole thing starts all over again.
I guess if the whole family was supportive of her, maybe it wouldn't suck so much, but throughout the entire game, neither Renoir nor Clea nor Aline can be bothered to empathize with her.
The only people who showed her support were the painted people.

popular choice among women

So, bad ending?

We've no means of knowing whether they would be the same people or simply copies that behave like them.
Arguably, because nobody brings it up, copying and pasting them elsewhere is not an option.

But then the game does this thing where nobodyy ever asks questions or discusses alternatives or even tries anything other than murder, so is it intended? Or is it just bad writing? Who knows.

why is one option more valid than the other

Hopefully not the one who is fully desensitized from years of creating and destroying entire worlds in a turbonigger holocaust without the slightest hesitation.

Just like Verso. Maybe the Painters are faggots and deserve to suffer.

Peak Foidso.

maelle really wants to force what remains of her brother to play minecraft with her until the end of time while ignoring the real world and ignoring what it did to her mother

the game is trying to tell you the story

ima just ignore it

Versofags in denial.
Pottery.

I would imagine the 'rules' of any canvas are alike, I dont see why one would have creations with souls and another canvas painted by a sister wouldn't

Grr grr gr sacrifice yourself for the family!

Why?

Because you just have to, even if you are miserable doing it!

Turns out women were right all along and incels on Anon Babble weren't. Who could have seen this coming?

This dipshit grieving family can't even have a conversation so the entire world of Verso's painting has to suffer as a result.

You are autistic. You are not supposed to have a clear cut answer like in a math book. However, the fact that painters don't have a consensus should tip you off.

on ja this makes Verso so relatable fr no cap

Women in general like a Gustave type man, competent and an amicable leader but not arrogant and will take advice and care for others. The whole sigma male Andrew Tate grift "women don't have rights and men must command them like dogs" is homoerotic as fuck and doesn't work.
Got a few female let's players recommended on my youtube and they all bawled for Gustave's death.

Painted Verso is not a painter and he tried to save the real world family at least unlike Alicia that turned her back on her real family and fake one.

young verso goes on adventure with monocco and esquie

clea creates nevrons as enemies and terrorizes him with shit like lampmaster

Is their fantasyland just MGQ tier onee shota bullying? No wonder Clea is so bitchy toward Alicia, she’s definitely fucking her brother

the game is trying to tell you the story

only a mongrelised american brain could arrive at this point, that the writers have essentially made renoir and cle 'evil' because they are doing what they are doing to people with souls. Having Clea deny their souls is intentional to make it ambiguous but keep trying retard

Doesn't Renoir acknowledge the Painting's inhabitants as valid? Just that he will choose his family over all of them. You have to also remember Clea is grieving too and in her way is forcing a resolution to the conflict so she can get her parents back to fighting Writers.

Game is about destructive methods of grief escapism

Choose to allow Maelle and Aline to consume themselves in the painting

Go to Anon Babble and type 'versofags'

I knew trannies where the ones that keep spamming as Maellefags.

well the people she loves are her brother and her party members for the most part, I don't see why she can't repaint them?

But this is the whole thing the game argues is wrong.

dad, please don't take one thing that makes my entire existance not miserable away from me

NOOOO! YOU'LL LOSE YOURSELF TO THE PAINTING AGAIN, FUN IS NOT ALLOWED EVEN IF IT'S THERAPEUTIC FOR YOU!

Her way of grieving is vengeance against the writers (forgot which side content pretty much spells it out for you), the conflict between her parents is preventing her from fulfilling it.

no consensus

because the only person claiming they do is the echo of a 12 year old boy who painted his best friends into a canvas, you are the retard who is claiming that because Verso is the creator of the Canvas and not Clea that somehow means his paintings have souls

You can't just equate drugs and a fucking living parallel dimension that easily.
There's a heavy cost for every choice.

Verso turns his back on his family and friends for the Painters.

He doesn't acknowledge a soul, he's just aware that they can feel which is why he expresses empathy to painted verso

Doesn't Renoir acknowledge the Painting's inhabitants as valid? Just that he will choose his family over all of them.

No fucking shit.
Completely ignoring the trolley problem issue by copes like "not real" and "VR" just robs Renoir of his agency and convictions.

Games is about destructive methods of grief escapism

Stopped reading there. You didn't understand the game and have the brain of a mentally challenged adult struggling to catch up.

where can i get a decent lore dump/plot explaination of this game from the youtubes, you guys are unbearable

You clearly can, even the characters in the game do it.

Play the game

If they're not sentient and real, why would he empathize? He who is a master Painter and created many worlds?

i dont play video gaymes

His fake made-up family you mean. He still saves the mother that painted him.

Oh my god who the fuck cares about souls except one quote from the kid who states he thinks they have them.
They don't sit around discussing whether they think the worlds are real or not, they all behave as though they were. They just prefer it gone over it killing Aline and Alicia.

Explain the cause of Renoir entering the fracture, the reason Clea entered it to create the Nevrons, and the reason why Alicia entered it without bringing up Aline hiding from her grief in the painting, go

God you are dense. Verso specifically states it's Clea who disagrees with him. Not his mom, who actually taught him to paint and a member of painters council, not his father who is the patriarch of the family. Not even painters in general. But specifically it's just his cold as fuck sister. If you don't get implications of that you are a low IQ cretin.

In Visages and Sirene does it make any difference which order I do them? Because dialogue suggests to do visages first. Also does killing the mask mini bosses vs going straight to main boss change anything? Same with that big nevron with loom in sirene

Renoir fully understands the price that must be paid though?

Game is about destructive methods of grief escapism

And I think this is where the narrative stumbles, because Alicia has different issues to work out not related to grief from losing family member. And the game kinda writes itself into a corner with that one.

Not one person does this. And if you are talking about them using the word "Intoxicating" they are you are an illiterate philistine.

It’s not fucking theurapeutic, god knows how long Aline was in the painting for before Renoir had to put his foot down, and he get sealed under the monolith for 67 fucking years for caring

Renoir is the real fucking victim of this story, he lost the one family member that isn’t female, and every female in his life is just doing their best to make his life miserable

God knows the kind of banal shit Aline made Verso do to make him consider oblivion as a better option, that line of “I don’t want this life” hits so fucking hard

lose the love of your life for years to some gay ass magical painting

now your retarded daughter’s obsessed

for caring

For trying to commit mass murder

just because every other character doesn't specifically say they don't have souls means they do

You are brown. You genuinely believe that human painters (who have souls confirmed) were given souls by presumably an archetypal god, then go on to create their own creations with souls, presumably taking the role of god.

As opposed to something more logical like, real people have souls, combined with the affinity for painting allows them to create lifelike imitations of human beings with souls.
tl;dr you have no frontal lobe because you're a hispanic american

in my monolith straight up jorking it

her burn scars aren't that bad, I'd still fuck her
just make a makeshift humidifier and some steamed eucalyptus oil and cocaine for her breathing. Laudanum for the pain.

it's the american schizo again

abandon thread

The real victim of the story is Alicia, because she' got fucked over the worst (just like her Painted doppelganger), but every family member keeps making it about themselves.

We the players care because we make the choice.

They just buff and heal the boss.

every family member keeps making it about themselves.

Congratulations, that's the point of the story

>Game is about destructive methods of grief escapism

He went in to get Aline out, he only start gommaging people after Aline sealed him under the Monolith. Painted Verso and Painted Renoir basically manipulated and massacred a bunch of the initial expeditions for Aline’s sake, which eventually broke Painted Verso

You can't deny it so you use namecalling lol. Both Clea and Renoir use words that imply that staying in the canvas is druglike if you get addicted and won't come out.

no response to

concession accepted

She's missing an eye (which y'know is a problem for a PAINTRESS), has respiratory problems and can't speak. It's like telling Anakin Skywalker to walk it off.

but every family member keeps making it about themselves.

Including herself.

NO VERSO DON'T LEAVE ME I NEED YOU WHO CARES YOU'VE BEEN WANTING TO DIE FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS AND YOU'LL LIVE KNOWING I'M KILLING MYSELF

Stupid fucking cunt. A game involving something as a part of its premise does not mean the game is about it and the moral cookie you should be eating is the thing it states at you

Do you want the explanation? Selfishness and bad communication; forcing one's choices on the other.
Aline grieves her son. Rather than see eye to eye with her husband, she selfishly secludes herself.
Renoir is afraid of losing people again. Rather than trust his wife will eventually pull through the painting by venting her grief in it for a while, he goes in and FORCES her to move on because he says she should and doesn't trust her.
This causes the fracture, because they literally did not try to communicate or see each other's points of view.
Clea also dismisses their grief. Rather than understanding the pain they are going through and trying to mediate, she calls them immature, and fuels their conflict so they can go through it quickly rather than in a healthy fashion.
During the process of all of this they stop caring about what the other wants and they all impose what should be done on one another, leaving Alicia entirely forgotten.
Verso then goes on to repeat the same, with Alicia coming to the realization nobody has ever cared about what she wantts and so neither will she.

"Escapism" is the least of the concerns of the game.

allows them to create lifelike imitations of human beings with souls.

Explain what's the difference between the life and experience of a human in neo-Paris and a Lumierian, if no Painters were fucking around in their world

forcing one's choices on the other

she selfishly secludes herself

he goes in and FORCES her to move on

she calls them immature, and fuels their conflict

etc

yep, looks like destructive forms of coping with grief to me, glad I was right

>just because every other character doesn't specifically say they don't have souls means they do

Who are you quoting? If that's your interpretation of my post it's all the proof I need you are an illiterate low IQ moron.

that unrelated muttoid seethe

?
lol

To be fair, he does the same shit to her in his ending, where she flat out begs him not to kick her out, because her life outside is pure misery and she would prefer dying over living like this.

explain the difference but dont use the one difference between them which is that they can have their strings pulled by a creator at any moment

She can always create any fucking painting and live in there within reason, not to mention the entire family is fucking rich and she’d want for nothing anyway. Sucks that she is a burn victim and all, but it’s not an entirely miserable existence that dying in a fake world playing marionnette on Verso is justifiable

Verso’s ending literally had him telling her that he doesn’t have to live a life she doesn’t want to live with her power. He just wants her out of the fucking picture because he doesn’t want Aline or Alicia to die in there

is pure misery

That's what her 16 year old mind thinks.

Verso specifically states it's Clea who disagrees with him. Not his mom, who actually taught him to paint and a member of painters council, not his father who is the patriarch of the family

you are suggesting just because Aline and Renoir didn't say, "they don't have souls" that they agree with Verso and disagree with Clea, retard

Game is about destructive methods of grief escapism

The midwit reading.

Game is about humans being fundamentally flawed and destructive creators who should not be trusted with demiurge powers ever and p**nters should be sent to guillotine

The thinking man's reading.

Yeah. It's very apparent in the finale that Renoir doesn't really take anybody else's point of view into consideration. Alicia keeps bringing up some very good points about how she feels and he has nothing to offer her outside of threats and empty platitudes. And the kicker is the exchange where she says she has lost so much - and she has, of all the Dessandre family, she's the one most damaged by the whole situation. And Renoir just goes:

we've all lost a lot.

Thanks for making it about yourself, shithead.

I knew you were going to retard-out anyways, but I am still disappointed in you.

yeah i dont know about you but I didnt finish the game thinking about how man is flawed and shouldnt be able to control magic, but how they individually handled their own grief, so im closer to the first option

Don't be purposefully retarded. Arguing in bad faith serves nobody.

There is more to her life than living in a cushy manor. She leaves the Painting she is back to being in pain, she has to go back to conflict and possible further loss.

I am going to set you on fire and then tell you to get over it, how about that?

concession accepted

which is that they can have their strings pulled by a creator at any moment

The philosophical question is that this can happen to anyone, yes.

everyone dies

INHUMAN MONSTER of a mom

Actually the whole world dies

I must kill everyone

those terms don't apply to a virtual world. the inhabitants were erased, not killed. the world is shut down, not died. "inhumane" applies to humans, not NPC characters.
Maybe go outside and touch grass as they say, instead of projecting life in video games onto real life.
nothing good comes from living with a VR headset. Alicia is lucky this dude pulled her out before she loses her mind

If it will make you go away, take all of them.

After a brief internal struggle and glancing at the party members, he notices Maelle's eyes have been aflicted with paint in the same way that Aline's used to be. He then returns his attention to the piano and begins to play a melody.

This is maelle's ending. Choosing Verso is 100% the right choice

le infant child spirit says the people are real

le retarded 15 year old girl says she wont get addicted

verso chads winning again

It's not bad faith, she's a stupid teenager who doesn't know shit about life.

Kek, OP predicted you'd show up and do exactly this and here you are.

are french women really that beautiful?

modern french women are brown

Lemme gouge your eye, destroy your throat and lungs and scar the entirety of your body and nerve system. Then we shall speak about the matter again, since you are unable to picture it. Kay?

OP predicted it

therefore it's wrong

lel

Why couldn't we save best girl? Fuck Cuckso, she deserved better.

The crux of the final conflict lies in Painted Verso just not wanting to be another doll for a painter to play house with, he had years of that from Aline already, and Alicia ended up doing the same thing in her ending.

Alicia is a painter, if she wants to play house, she can do it literally anywhere else and not involve this frankenstein’s monster tier of tortured existence that seeks oblivion. His memories of real Verso made it so he can’t risk Alicia and Aline dying in the painting for their retardation

My biggest issue is that everybody keeps saying that she can't just paint another canvas, but fail to realize that she'll most likely lose herself in that canvas AGAIN. Because the issue of her wanting to escape her life of being a miserable cripple remains unresolved. And given how shitty her family is, I also wouldn't have much incentive to go back to them.

That's not what happened to Alicia though. She manages fine in the real world when we see her there.

Maelle was the one who erased her and her family before that.

Are you trolling me by pretending to be retarded?
The point is if painters knew for sure their creations have no souls, his mom, his father, everyone would've taught him that. He would be contradicting generations of painter's knowledge. He wouldn't just say that Clea disagrees with him. He would also say that painters in general disagree with him. He would probably say that his teacher Aline or his authority figure Renoire disagree with him. Or something else entirely. The writing purposefully makes a point that Verso only brings up Clea as the one who disagrees with him. Writers made it ambiguous on purpose and left it up to interpretation. If they wanted to state that paintings have no souls period, they would write that dialog differently with different phrasing. In the simplest case they'd just add "Clea and the others disagree".
Imagine if you would tell someone "earth is flat, actually. but my sister disagrees with me though". It wouldn't make any sense. If you are contradicting common sense you would phrase it differently.
How is this hard do comprehend? You now that Verso doesn't really exist and it's writers who make conscious and deliberate decisions on world building and how to provide reader with exposition?

You mean, outside of the fact that she can barely breathe and communicates with wails and grunts? And her sister keeps making fun of her disabilities?

imagine creating a VR world with your favorite virtual characters. then you sacrifice yourself irl to save your sister, then your whole family goes into the VR world, resurrect some fake version of you, your parents have a huge fight within the VR world, plus deny you of your will to fade away in peace.

Nobody fucking cares about real Verso. Fake Verso is the only humane person in this whole family.

Verso admits he purposely did not savr Gustave when he could have

Maelle doesn't get mad

*their bond is now unbreakable*

This game is fucking retarded. It makes sense why Verso is a massive piece of shit to gwt what he wants but all 3 women in the party just cop it and come back for more abuse.

Maelle was the one who erased her and her family before that.

Because Cuckso led them down that path because he's a suicidal, pathological liar.

You are one of those people who'd actually for real kill billions if any authority figure insinuated they are less than human.

the reason Clea entered it to create the Nevrons

Clea created the Nevrons as part of her and Verso's young adventures. The Clea in the tower tells you as much, doing shit with Verso in the painting from even before Alicia was interested in it. The white Nevrons are basically what the Nevrons were before being modified to be Lumiere people killing, chroma corrupting beasties.

aline and father presumably taught him that they have souls (headcanon)

couldn't be that they were uncertain and never spoke of it

it seems more likely that nobody knows, you have a 12 year old versos interpretation, and you have Clea's interpretation, and its not surprising that the little boy thinks the cartoon characters he drew are real just like him

Its more that its because its Verso's only painting and the last piece of him left. She could just paint again and recreate all of those people she loves but then we get into the whole argument of "are they still them?" Her also living a mirror life of 16 years as Maelle doesn't help at all either. From her perspective she has live equally as Alicia and Maelle and feels that Maelle is the better life.

by that point maelle is alicia and while she cares for her puppets they're still puppets to her

she can barely breathe

Ok so you're making shit up with your imagination, we don't know to what extent but she's not having any problems being physically active. She's not out of breath or choking. She's calm.

Why does Aline even stay in the painting when her painted Verso wants nothing to do with her?

I miss my dead son so much so I'll make a fake one that won't spend time with me!

Women.....

kill billions

again, wrong term. yes i would easily erase a VR world or a game after i'm done with them

She literally says it hurts for her to breathe.

It was Maelle's choice, she was bent on getting her revenge and murdering your precious painted people.

The problem of the ingame painting is that between Aline’s genius and the canvas having Verso’s soul fragment caused painted Verso to be a near-perfect replica of Verso with the real Verso memories who was aware that he isn’t real.

Given no interference from Aline or Alicia forcing him to be Verso’s replacement, he could have lived his life as just a random immortal Lumieran and find his own purpose or joy in life, but as long as those two painters continue to treat him as Verso, he would rather seek oblivion

Had they painted a Verso anywhere else, it wouldn’t be his fucking problem

originally to spend time with her fake family, later on to keep renoir in check in their prolonged power struggle over the painting

autists keep on saying its a computer VR game

Why does this keep on happening? Its literally magic.

aline and father presumably taught him that they have souls (headcanon)

Where the fuck did I state that?

couldn't be that they were uncertain and never spoke of it

It took a roundabout way but you finally got it so I consider it a win.
Painters are canonical not sure whether their creations have souls or not. That's it.

She literally keeps gasping for air in her "introductory" cutscene.

>Verso admits he purposely did not savr Gustave when he could have

>Maelle doesn't get mad

>*their bond is now unbreakable*

Yeah that made zero fucking sense.

As far as I can tell Verso's soul in the painting is represented by the child demiurge, not by painted verso. Painted Verso has Verso's memories but it doesn't seem like he has his soul, at the very least he has no power over the painting which he probably should have if he had any amount of a painter's soul.

She says pain but what kind of pain does she mean? It's all left ambiguous. Is it chronic, occasional or maybe just mental?

Either way I believe more her adult father, that everything would get better in the end and she would get the help she needs.

real Alicia: retarded and almosts gets herself killed by Wriggers

real Verso: saves Alicia

Alicia inside the painting: retarded and almost kills herself inside the painting

Painted Verso: saves Alicia

Alicia almost killed herself twice within a month or so, how much longer does she have to live? Will her father die to save her retarded life in 2 weeks?

Painted Verso didn’t break his programming until Fracture happened and he become Aline’s line of defense and ended up manipulating and killing all the early expeditioners

It's implied from Paintress boss fight she is not right in the head in that time. Presumably from spending too much time inside Canvas. She lived an unspecified amount of time with painted family and then Renoire fought her and caused fracture and she got stuck alone on top of monolith.

It's the same schizo that switches over to call all characters "junkies" when the conversation dries down.
Probably just obsessed with the game and mentally ill enough that even baiting people to fake discussions and arguments fuels him.

Painted Verso has Verso's memories but it doesn't seem like he has his soul

The game literally tells you Painted Verso was created using Aline's memories of Verso. It has neither his soul nor his memories, it has Aline's memories from events where she saw or heard about Verso doing something.

Painters are canonical not sure whether their creations have souls or not. That's it.

Except Clea is more talented than the lot so I'm taking her word over crying verso, ciao

manipulating and killing all the early expeditioners

The late ones too

tranny projecting

Painted Alicia's been trying to get herself killed for some time now. There's one journal entry where she gets captured and a real angry executioner was going to kick her ass for what the family did to one of them.

I don't think it works like that, otherwise Verso wouldn't know stuff Aline doesn't know he knows and that's not something the game wants to touch. There's no mentioned continuity break between the original Lune and Sciel and their repainted versions in act 3 either, so we are to assume it's just magic and it works.

SHE FLAT OUT SAYS IT HURTS EVERYTIME SHE BREATHES.
Also, Renoir is a shithead. "Don't worry about it/it'll get better" it's probably the most dismissive thing you can say in this situation. He's not even trying to put himself in his shoes.

(You) can have whatever headcanon, it wouldn't change the actual lore of their world

So why stay? What does Aline do all day? Sit alone in the monolith crying to herself for 60 canvas years?

souls confirmed

I know what she says and you twist it to fit your delusional narrative. Her father clearly loves her and shows it but she refuses his help just like mentally ill Aline refused it.

I dont think when he says it will get better he is talking about her breathing issues, more like she will get over the grief of losing verso

no, that's the responsible thing an adult should tell a child. It does get better. You learn to live with your circumstances and that there's more to life than the loss you suffered as a child. He's trying to convince her to allow herself to get an opportunity to grow.
Sure sucks to be a cripple but plenty of cripples live happy lives, believe it or not.

She doesn't say "everytime". Play the game again.

I don't think it works like that

It's literally what the game says.
youtu.be/hzPFERJ9AYo?t=183

Renoir is a shithead. "Don't worry about it/it'll get better" it's probably the most dismissive thing you can say in this situation. He's not even trying to put himself in his shoes.

Dad just spent 60 years getting his retard wife out only for his retard daughter to say she's going to do the same thing.

Why is his bulge so big?

I don't mean painted Alicia I mean the real Alicia inside the painting/Maelle

the game makes no mention of how it works

Renoir did nothing wrong :/

Dude is a goddamn trooper, I really felt for him when he hugged her.

He's not Verso. He's a painted copy, built from our mother's memories

Literally timestamped it just before that line for you.

the entire premise of the game is that he is NOT a mature or responsible adult

but surely on this one particular matter he was not at all being the character he was up until this point

What an awkward wishful thinking.

So, the lesson of this game is that a patriarch is needed to keep the self-destructive tendencies of women in check, particularly in times of loss and war?
Also:
His soul, his choice.
DEAL WITH IT, FAGGOT.

and where does it say he's incomplete / doesn't know stuff the real verso would know ? Alicia seems to not believe that to be the case

kek, the need of baiting like a retard only proves OP right

why doesn't a woman just do a logical thing and instead being a stubborn defiant cunt

Jee I wonder

I think you misunderstood something along the way
He's flawed for sure, but he is definitely portrayed as doing his very best for his family. The problem is that the circumstances are so dire he's helpless to make things better.

NTA but this can apply to Verso since there is a part of his existence that exists outside the painting, but that's not true for Sciel and Lune. They're chroma through and through, and that's unchanged when they're repainted.

more like she will get over the grief of losing verso

Yes, but but this doesn't even address the crux of her issue. Her getting over the grief of losing Verso is one thing, her not wanting to live as a cripple is another.

He's trying to convince her to allow herself to get an opportunity to grow

Yes, suffering builds character, great lesson. Especially dished out by people who don't have to suffer as much as you. Also, with how toxic her family is, I don't have much faith in Alicia getting better either physically or mentally. Her best bet would be to get the fuck out of that home and never look back.

He is literally the most mature right after Clea, he wants the family to reunite and support each other.

Everyone suffers anon, thinking your suffering is greater and unique is the kind of hubris a child needs to learn to get over to grow.

Correct.
And all that pair of As (as in assholes) had to do was not use the copium machine suicidally and attend the actual important matters, like processing grief in real life and fighting a damn war.

and where does it say he's incomplete / doesn't know stuff the real verso would know ?

Do you know the inner workings of your dad? His most private, darkest thoughts? His deepest desires? His dreams and aspirations when he was a kid? Do you know all the profound things he said at age 10, all the dumb things he did at that age? His hidden shames?
No?
What makes you think that Aline is that all knowing about his children?
You think her children tell her everything? They didn't even know that Alicia was getting the wool pulled over her by writers until their house was on fire.

Her biggest issue is not having her brother in life anymore. She clearly says it in the end.

I'm hearing a whole lot of headcanon and not a whole lot of textual evidence anon

Bait?
Those are just facts.
Particularly pertaining Verso.

The game can be reduced down to women being fucking retarded child like addicts and the men trying to wake them up, Clea is also written to be logical and steadfast so she is on the boys team

why do people act like Alicias family hates her even though she's Renoirs favourite and we don't know what her Mum and sister think of her when they are not grieving?

Yeah both Renoir and Clea are right

Clea is kinda mean to her

Basically.

wife is a crazy bitch

daughter is suicidal

telling them to come back home is bad somehow

headcanon

Anon it's common sense.
No other person but yourself can know you 100%. The only memories Aline can use to apply in making Verso are memories she was able to form from her life with him.
Anything secret, anything that the real Verso never shared, Aline would have no way of knowing. How would she be able to paint those into Verso if she doesn't know them?

Because she is burnt and has one eye. Shit is gross. Renoir is raping her for sure

he wants the family to reunite and support each other.

And I want a pony. Wishful thinking won't solve this issue. I don't see Clea supporting emotionally anybody but her herself because she has empathy level of a potted plant, Aline will most likely continue to be a control freak and Alicia will keep getting more and more miserable with every day. This family is going to fall apart the second Renoir looks the other way.

that song literally called “Clea, stop pulling Alicia’s hair”

Do you forget the part where he allows Alicia to remain in the painting after Painted Renoir kicks her out, when even dementia Aline freaks out about it and yells that she is too young to be stuck there with them?
Do you forget the fact Clea explicitly states he never even tried talking with their mother and just went inside to do kaiju battles right off the bat shitting everything up?
Do you forget he has been standing around as the Curator and at no point as he attempted to dissuade Maelle or guide her to safety and instead has been using her to systematically get closer to winning their family struggle without regard of all the obvious mental trauma she is enduring from being literally brainwashed?
Are you just willfully ignoring everything because muh waifu loyalty?

So we can all agree that the canvas that Renoir needed to be 'saved' from was probably some sort of harem world right? the one that Aline supposedly saved him from

Aline actually for real hates her guts. Clea just think she is worthless. Renoire is the only one who likes her.

haha yeah me too

I can't apply common sense to fucking magic paintings giving birth to thinking humans anon, that's the problem. You're making assumptions about how this works but the game isn't really interested in going into the specifics. It's fun to imagine how the underdeveloped parts of the plot could have been used to make the story even more tragic but at the end of the day the story is what it is and nothing more, and the story does not give any indication that painted verso is incomplete, he seems to know a whole lot and has such a strong affinity with soul fragment verso that he can tell what he is thinking. That's not what I'd expect the mere fantasized memory of a mother to be able to do, the painters clearly are able to tap into something greater than their own minds somehow.

Damn right.
Clea is the kind of women other women call a bitch. And they are right, but she is not delusional and gets shit done. Could she be nicer and a better person like Verso was? Maybe, but at least she is still grounded in reality, and that is based.

Can non-Painters enter painted worlds? Is it genetic or whatever? Since Verso played the piano and Alicia wanted to write.
If anyone could enter them, can I order a pokemon harem canvas?

Clea is only mad and snarky because her family is stuck in the painting when the situation irl is more important. She can't support anyone if they're addicted and isolated in a fake painted world. What you say is retarded headcanon.

I wonder why the ones most loudly yelling about an ending are the Maelle anons. It’s attracting that strain of rabidness that screams daddy issues.

the painters clearly are able to tap into something greater than their own minds somehow.

Which applies here how?
Verso isn't a painter. Hell, his soul fragment is more of a painter than he is.

he was in a diminished state as the curator, all he could do is support the party so they could free him. He was stuck incapable of acting or communicating for 67 years
He's only himself once aline gets kicked out

Since it’s effectively magic, I’m guessing it’s either genetic or at least learned

Maybe they can get people in there, but a non-painter in a painted world would effectively be at the painter’s mercy

How do you think that family got so rich?

I am assuming that you can.
It would explain how they are so fucking wealthy.

we dont know unfortunately, I always thought the reason they were wealthy is because they might be able to paint a specific canvas to a clients choosing and allow them to enter. Imagine how much people would pay to spend a single night, which could translate to decades in a painting that could be a harem of their own choosing

There is no reason a lineage of magicians who can create perfect escapism world but only for themselves would be filthy rich and not just die out.
They can probably at least help others enter canvases and made fortune on creating the most depraved shit for wealthy clients.

I meant that Aline can make a Verso that is more complete than her recollections somehow, and if I had to hazard a guess it would have to be related to his soul being in there since the game seems to make such a big deal out of it.

Is there anything Aline said before Versos death that indicates she hates Alicia? Aline hates her right now because she is dealing with her grief badly. When she gets over her grief she will not hate her. The mature take if one of your kids accidentally gets another of your kids killed is "I already lost one kid, why am I trying to lose two?" Now if her Mom hated her before she got Verso killed she is fucked

Can non-Painters enter painted worlds?

Possibly, with a painter to serve as a kind of valet or something.
It wouldn't make sense for painters to be a prominent thing in society if their fancy ability only works for them. Moreover, writers seething enough to set them on fire wouldn't make any sense if their powers only work on themselves.

Just go back to being a mutilated mute that will never find real love and live with your sister who treats you like shit and your mother who hates you so much she painted you colorless and full of scars on purpose because... it is... the right thing to do!

It took Maelle one look at her painted counterpart to figure out her mother subconsciously hates her and blames her for everything. And Clea is a turbocunt towards her all the way through. I guess it's "tough love" but tough love and guilt-tripping doesn't help in this case.
I guess they can talk it out with one another and it's going to be fine... or, right, Alicia cannot speak, so she can't articulate her grievances.
We'll sucks to be her.

is there a significance to the broken mask painted alicia is wearing ?

She can write. Seems to be her passion as well.

that's the average house before Drumpfs inflation

We don't write in this family anon.

2 possibilities is that either it doesn’t matter and any Verso Aline created would have the same existential issues because she infused him with Verso’s memories and the relevance of the canvas is because that’s the only painting Verso ever made before becoming a pianist, or that the real Verso’s memories bled into him because it’s his canvas and only this particular Verso would have that existential crisis

Yes. Aline wanted her to suffer as burn victim yet she didn't want to have to look at her mutilated face

Yes you can but only because you are a suspiciously wealthy furry

No, he's a man who has lived 100 years and watched a fucked up family ruin everything. That tends to change a person's perspective. All of Lumiere was gone, and Maelle wanted to bring back some puppets because she could not face reality. This is all Maelle's fault at the end. All she had to do was man the fuck up, admit the truth, and step back out into the real world. All she had to be was not a selfish cunt and the world of the painting could have been rebuilt, with love and respect. But no, she had to be a little bitch and ignore whatever autonomy the inhabitants of the painting might have so she can run away from the real world. Verso was right. Better the people of Lumiere stay dead, and the Gestrals, Grandis, and Esquie all meet fates they are already comfortable with meeting anyways, over letting a selfish, obsessed little goddess turn the canvas into a hellscape for her own self-aggrandizement.

A fiery passion, you could say.

wouldn't it be a complete mask then ?

the game seems to make such a big deal out of it.

The game makes a big deal out of this painting having Verso's soul because as the last/only (game doesn't really specify which) painting that Verso worked on it's the reason for why Aline is hell bent on staying in the painting and why Alicia is fighting to not have it destroyed.
It's an emotional attachment to their dearly departed kin.

Nta but how do you know a “God” doesn’t live for hundreds of thousands of years in the reality above ours and is loling at your 75 year lifespan?

it's a bit more than that, there's a child and a young man version of aline/renoir's god form running around and saying stuff only verso would say. Somewhere somehow part of him got trapped here too.

(game doesn't really specify which)

Alicia states it's Verso's only canvas.

I guess it was supposed to signal that Alicia is like a broken doll or something.

why do you guys keep repeating what I already said. Yes I know Aline hates her while she is grieving I am asking if Aline hated her before grieving. If Aline didn't hate Alicia beforehand there is no reason for her to keep hating Alicia after deailing with her grief

In all fairness, they’ll probably still have to destroy the painting the moment Alicia went out because Aline is too far deep into copium that there is no way the family can prevent her from going in and killing herself, and painted Verso would still be fucking suffering as Aline continues playing house

But is it the only canvas he made or the only canvas that survived the fire?

How sheltered you have to be to think Clea is a bad person because she doesn't coddle her sister

75 is way too long anyway, you become old wrinkly and your whole body starts to ache or have issues from the smallest things.

Don't forget that Maellefags are a vocal minority farming (You)s

sciel gets to showcase her life philosophy making her immune to mask voodoo and own a kaiju

lune just kinda stumbles forward and gets handed the win with no elaboration or explanation

that was weird

And she's so supportive of her crippled, despressed sister, she throws her into the very same painting for shits and giggles, because she can't be bothered to deal with her.
No, I don't think Alicia is going to have much support in her.

It’s this jewish world that makes you think 75 years is too long, I’d imagine most of us would not mind living longer if we don’t have to live in this gay earth

Did I miss a scene or does Verso really never just ask Maelle to kill him?

there's not coddling her and there's being a dick for free, she's just kinda being a dick for free

Bro this entire site is full of people escaping their lives by acting hostile to eachother.

He does in Maelle's ending

Only because you were made that way, in a demiurge world you are just a victim of planned obsolescence

is there any deeper meaning to the name renoir or am I just supposed to basedface and point at the screen because thats a painter I know

Painted world is pretty gay as well.

Verso doesn't just want to die, otherwise he'd be happy with the maelle ending. He wants to free the soul of original verso from the painting

It felt like a half-assed way of making them relevant to the plot again in both cases.
Lune was clearly enthralled by Sirene's power when you first enter the dungeon, Verso should've been the one to deliver the last hit.

Writers killed her brother and burned her face, anon.

It's good then that Alicia is her dad's favorite.

You know, the more people talk about the story of E33, the less interesting it seems to me.

She's brusque in her tone but she very clearly loves everyone in the family, even Alicia as you can see from the endless tower dialogue

Just references. The game is full of them, like "this is fine" and "guess I'll die" memes.
Alicia was tricked by writers and one of Maelle's skills, Stendahl, is the name of a French writer. Cars reference, etc. etc.

Clea is going out to murder a bunch of wr*ters, putting Alicia in the painting both keep her out of the way and tip the scale further to Renoir so he can get out faster and help her commit TWD

their bond is now unbreakable, yes. learning why gustave died is exactly the reason why alicia repainted verso back so he can be her personal piano slave. she also repainted kid verso to rub it all in.

Renoir
Twice-Black
Wont accept another loss.

It’s created by french, so unfortunately faggotry is part of the package

It's a reference to Pierre-Auguste Renoir, his wife's name was also Aline.

She didn't know then, you're being disingenuous

Sure anon, whatever theory makes you feel better. Just keep it to yourself.

Cars reference, etc. etc.

I for one wasn't expecting the Lightning McQueen superboss

t.

Marche was right. Verso was right.

From what little we know beforehand, Aline was still a controlling cunt that dealt with guilt-tripping and forcing her opinions on her children. She wasn't supportive of Verso's passion for music and she kept putting Alicia down because she wasn't good enough. That's why Alicia says (heh) that there is only one picture she painted that's even put on display, because her mother thought the rest wasn't good enough. Which is a horrible thing to do to a child.
And a reason why Alicia no longer wants to be a painter.

By the beginning of act 3 maelle pretty much knows everything

is French

Dropped.

I just supposed to basedface and point at the screen because thats a painter I know

Maelle's ultimate skill is Stendhal, you tell me.

Because you’re a faggot secondary who had to get their opinion from some youtube video essay

Anyone who actually played the game care enough about it to argue about it in a mongolian basket weaving forum

She knew who Alicia was and she still erased her. The anon that was whining about painted Alicia dying should be mad at Maelle, no one else.

43 votes

lol

Painted Alicia literally begged her to do this. At first Maelle just wanted to fix her.

all minorities are ends of bell curves

Sure bud. Next you're gonna tell me half of all the woke shit is actually based.

muh painted people aren't real

is probably the dumbest fucking cope to come out of it
if you can create something that is indistinguishable from reality in every single way then how the fuck is it not real?
if we found out that we are in simulation would it suddenly be OK to go outside and start killing people since they are "not real" anyway?

your wife is a master in reality creation

she fucks off to a parallel world to build her ideal utopian life

she's still upset at you

still decides that her ideal husband in her fantasy world is literally just you

How good was Renoir's dick?

I literally don't care, it's some other anon that was crying about her fate.

I mean she doesn't care about getting revenge for gustave by then, yes she erases some of them but that's not her motivation anymore

Not sure why you’re mad, that anon is right arguments from “fakeness” don’t really work if you allow for the existence of entities “above” us in your worldview.

there's a difference between sentient beings and automatons mimicking it, and it's one we are completely unable to perceive.

You are ontologically and epistemologically confused.

It's mentioned painted Renoir is more of a bully than real Renoir, which is based on how Aline perceives him

which is funny considering painted renoir is incredibly chill

What worldview? I don't compare my world to a world from a video game lol, you are doing it and it's very cringe.

Inexhaustible reserves of aura.

And she was all to quick to grant her wish. She would however never allow painted Verso to go. Secretly she was glad painted Alicia is gone.

He's very stubborn and unreceptive to anybody's arguments, which is in contrast with real Renoir who eventually relents to Alicia in the end

No, Alicia says "daddy is kinder and more understanding, mom's painting of him is not flattering", before she goes to him and he does the complete opposite of what she expected him to do, AKA behaving exactly the same way as Aline painted him, because it was an accurate depiction and up until then Alicia had just gotten his nice side.

I mean ok you can do that, but then you can just say “the painted world and real world in the video game are equally fake so it doesn’t matter anyway” which is true but not a particularly compelling way to engage with fiction

do we actually see any of that ? He's unreceptive to Verso's genocide plan sure, but I wouldn't fault him for that

Except painted Renoir straight up executes people without saying anything. He's the definition of a cold blooded bastard unlike real Renoir.

How do you think that family got so rich?

suspiciously wealthy furries living their dream inside a painting by that family is my first assumption

I mean. He relents after you (and Aline) beat the everloving shit out of him into submission (again), not exactly after a nice quiet chat.

there's a difference between sentient beings and automatons mimicking it

There is none, unless you choose to define "human" as those only inhabiting your level of existence, which leaves you gaped open to be invalidated by any existence above you

Ok, go be pretentious somewhere else. I bet reddit will love your take about painted world and sentience.

suspiciously wealthy furries living their dream inside a painting by that family is my first assumption

What would a suspiciously wealthy furry be like in 1890? Some American railway baron? Non ruling European royalty that got really into Beowulf?

He never explains himself, on the beach when the commander asks him who he is and how he survived the gommage he just kills everyone without a word; when Gustave asks him why he's doing what he's doing he doesn't answer and just says he's really doing them a kindness, when Verso tries to reason with him it doesn't sway him even a little bit.
It's basically his way or the highway

... What? Real Renoir is literally gommaging people to get back at his wife(and thus bring her back)
Painted Renoir is killing them to get their chroma to her so she can stay(and thus fulfill her wishes)
They are literally doing the same thing.
Painted Renoir even has the exact same decency of asking Maelle and her crew to go back three times before he kills Gustave as a pity towards her situation. They just happen to ignore him.

nothing to do with humans, any conscious being is having a conscious experience, something an automaton is definitionally incapable of.

He literally hit her with the

TH-THAT'S DIFFERENT!

Put the fingers on the keys, slavey.

A female royalty who wants to get fucked by a real bull.

That's because the last three expeditions he explained things to ended up betraying them and allowing Clea to kidnap her Painted version, after which he assumes everyone is working with her or hiding spies working for her.
Did you not play the game?

That reminds me, were the scars ever explained beyond 'I was in a fight'.

Yeah, that's different because she was a named NPC.

Nigger, you try getting out from under a rock your wife trapped you in for 67 years only to find out that your daughter was planning on doing the exact same thing that led to that scenario, renoir is a goddamn saint for even entertaining a conversation

is having a conscious experience

You think Lumierians do not have an inner mental world of their own?

We already know that they're different though. Maelle says it herself. Besides it's better to disappear into flowers without pain rather than get shot into your chest and bleed out to die.

I'm saying whether they do or not I am incapable of perceiving it, so caution dictates I should assume they do.

And real Renoir spent 67 years trapped under the monolith and was able to still see his daughter's point of view in the end and let her do what she wanted
Now granted he's biased toward Alicia but he's clearly not the same type of person as painted Renoir

Director’s favorite game include FF8, probably an homage to Squall and Seifer

still waiting for that maelle webm...

there's a fundamental difference in that real renoir is a man in control, and painted renoir is a thrall doing the bidding of a goddess
It's not painted renoir's place to change his mind, he has a mission

Maybe if he had not used her as a tool of war and allowed Aline to boot her out of the canvas like she attempted to do he would not be having that conversation or problem to begin with, you double-nigger. What the fuck kind of sainthood is it when you are clearly the cause of all the ongoing problems just because you are incapable of taking a goddamn chill pill?

when Gustave asks him why he's doing what he's doing he doesn't answer and just says he's really doing them a kindness

He says that to Maelle, not Gustave.

pretentious

Buzzword
This game has the same problem as FFTA where it wants to make assertions about what is “real” but doesn’t do enough to make the fake people fake

She would however never allow painted Verso to go.

Yeah, that's why I feel the writing stumbles in the end. Because it melds two different issues ("I want to stay because my real life is full of misery" and "I want to stay because I miss Verso") into one. And those are not the same.
And for the former, the game really doesn't have a good counterargument.

A single, objectively real soul is more important than thousands of hypothetical souls.

Same point

the game doesn't say anything about "real" or not, the problem is paintings fucking kill you

Maybe that was the point? Who are you to decide how the writing of the game should be? Not to mention you use buzzwords as well to make yourself seem intelligent, but you don't really offer anything compelling.

Why? :)

The remaining Lumerians are literally browns, drunks, and women who doesn’t want to have children. They’re as fake as they come as far as I’m concerned

And those are not the same

they are part of the same equation. Verso is a thing that brings her comfort, so it only makes sense he's part of her comfort world.

Bipolar hypothetical soul manipulates his namesake's real soul

This is ok because reasons

That's so fucking based, bro.

So what's stopping her from painting a Verso on a different canvas?

VERSO IS MY BOTHER!

MINE!

Why are women like this?

same reason her mother is irrationally attached to this specific painting, there's somehow a piece of verso's soul in it

Some things don't have a reason it's simply a choice between what you prefer which is what the game offers

Yeah, he has no issue using her as a meatshield - and keep in mind he made contact with her as a Curator almost immediately, but it's only after she does want he wants from her, he's horrified that she's been too long and don't want to leave.
Motherfucker, you kept pushing her. You could've solved this within seconds yourself if you really cared about your daughter.

kek

Jesus, why does it seem like Verso pissed in your cereal

I get that he was shady and more or less lied through omission on important junctures, but the level of hate people had for him is like if he was Abby or something

Its only a fragment of his soul.

he had to save his wife too and was unable to do so

The fact that's she's most likely going to lose herself on her own canvas yet again.
Because why wouldn't she live 24/7 in a world where she doesn't have to be a cripple?

He literally wanted to destroy that work. Not for an interesting reason either, because he was a little bitch. His breakdown at the end made it clear that it was more about himself than his mother.

No, Alicia. your biggus dickus stepbro isn't real.

and no. you are not the marry sue chosen one jedi master

and yeah. melle is a dumbass name

It just is ;)

If you think he's hypothetical then the rest of painted beings are a tier below that.
Verso was never passionate about painting, doesn't mean he didn't love his canvas

The counterargument is that she is a fucking paintress. She doesn't need to cope about her self/writer inflicted disability by torturing her dead brother's soul after he already saved her life once.

Kicking Alicia out was much, much easier, so he should've prioritized her if he cared about her.

Very true.
Still, would try to save both just in case.

there's somehow a piece of verso's soul in it

yes. a soul that want and need a rest

Aside from real Verso's soul partially bejng in this canvas because he made the world, who knows if she could paint a proper Verso. Alina is his mother and knows absolutely everything about him from age 0 to however old he got, 26 I think. Maellicia might paint him wrong though.

but he had to

No, no he did not. That is the whole point of their situation.
He did not "have" to push their children into the conflict, he did not "have" to manipulate Alicia, he did not "have" to send Clea to fight on her own, and he did not "have" to try to force his wife out of the painting.
He decided to do it, because he is controlling and afraid.
Is it understandable? To a degree, he is emotional, in grieving, and detached from reality - so sure.
But is it okay? Let alone does it make him a good person or some sort of family saint? Jesus no.

And the main reason of the entire conflict. Painted Verso is a perfect copy thanks to him.

why should he have prioritized a solution that didn't solve the main problem ? He supported her and gave her the weapon upgrades she needed to destroy her mother's paintsona, once that's done he can get everyone home. Alicia wasn't in any danger, he was only objecting to her staying for a more extended time period.

We don't really know that he's a perfect copy, he probably isn't

Painted Verso is not a perfect copy. Clea states that outright and has interacted with him, so she would know. You are being retarded and making shit up.

Versoul should stop bitching. He just needs a Gramophone for some entertainment maybe

he did not "have" to send Clea to fight on her own,

She did it on her own.

and he did not "have" to try to force his wife out of the painting.

Yes, yes he did because she was killing herself inside.
He's a genuinely good and caring person unless you have some kind of unresolved daddy issues where you can't see all he does is worry about his family.

She isn't like Aline though. She tells it plainly to Verso along the lines of "here I have a chance to live, there I merely exist".
There is nothing stopping her from giving herself a chance to live on a different painting and making her own Verso in it.

Should he have let his wife rot in the painting alone ? Would that have been better ? He mobilized his family to try to solve a family issue. It wasn't a perfect plan, but it worked well enough.

Agreed on all point but Clea’s, Clea wanted to take her pound of flesh regardless whether anyone else in the family helped her, Renoir didn’t make her do anything

Alicia wasn't in any danger

oh shit the ending is here and my daughter whom I allowed to believe she is someone else for 16 years is now mentally scarred beyond repair

how could I have prevented this?

Yeah him and NotRenoir got into a fight

It was her sister that kicked her in the painting and her mother that mindraped her. By the time renoir meets her the damage has been done and he's trying to make the most of it.

How much of that is her disassociating due to grief and to prevent herself from falling into the same trap as Alicia and Aline thougg?

You are literally the type of "good guy" that will become a toxic blight for his family and children, I can tell. I am not surprised given where we are, but still, I pity whatever spawn you manage to stiffle to death by forcing your view and methods on them until they drive themselves up the walls trying to escape you.
Not that I assume you will reproduce, but you never know.

She does not say that at all, she just states that he's not the real verso and just a painted copy. She makes no claim about the quality of that copy.

0:48-1:40 on "for those who come after" is by far the most beautiful part of the soundtrack
youtu.be/qV4ojbWtELg?t=48
Does it actually have a full track? The other variations of the motif aren't as good

that's aline's characterisation, not renoir

No, he should have talked with her with a levelled head without dismissing her which we know for a fact he never tried to do as Clea says so.
So yeah, rather than this, letting your much more experienced wife handle her own shit rather than throw a tantrum and bring your traumatized children onto your shit is in fact the correct alternative.

he's trying to make the most of it.

And here is the issue, the family are just selfish and manipulative.

It's implied that Aline has created millions of humans, at least 2 million in Lumiere alone if she was true to early 20th century Paris.
Renoir even calls him one of her finest work.
There's 0 reason for Aline to not leave and make another copy of Verso later in a new canvas later if this one isn't a perfect copy.
Everyone who cares about him has to remind him that he's his own person, not actually Verso like his mother created him to be.

She says he's not real, not the same thing.

Zero. Obviously. Considering nothing whatsoever points to the idea that it isn't the case since even Alicia and Aline, at the heights of their cope, can tell he is not Verso at all.

But that's again the issue.
The game one time says:

prolonged living in a painting is BAD.

But when Alicia goes:

I don't want to live a vegetative life of a sad cripple

the answer is:

then create a new canvas and live there

No, you can't have a cake and eat it.

And she also tells him plainly

all I wanted was to live our lifetime together

She's just Aline, because she's killing herself to be with her fake son.

The fact you think that only makes what he says awkwardly accurate

How could he talk some sense when her wife went full schizo in the painting?

all I wanted was to live our lifetime together

There is nothing stopping her from living that lifetime in another painting.

And Alicia is just as bad, yes?
Like lying to her father in his face so he doesn't get in the way of your fantasy life as you kill yourself and torture your brother.

Actually, yes, because that only works for her and Aline in Verso's painting.
She sees no worth in it otherwise.

All Aline need was a good nigger dick to fuck all those grief away baka

force your children to learn painting like you

berate them when they're not good enough for you, dissuade them from following their true passion (music and writing)

when tragedy strikes, abandon your real children and go play house with a fake family you made up for an entire fucking century

aline is fucking crazy anon, I don't know how you missed that