Wow this shit the bed hard when the reveal about the Painters came, didn't it

It really felt like the writers decided to completely change the story direction halfway through development. In the end it's all just about one family's drama, there's not even any consideration of the sentient beings these people magically create, it's just "do you want this crippled girl to face reality or live in a happy fake world", all the themes set up by the majority of the game are pretty much set aside for that.
I'm fine with morally ambiguous endings and all, but damn it really feels like the ending makes the majority of the game pointless.

but damn it really feels like the ending makes the majority of the game pointless.

It's funny how you can tell that a person is brown just by reading this

it really feels like the ending makes the majority of the game pointless.

Im sorry youre literally to stupid to get the game.
I actually think people might have a point in calling people too brown to understand this game.

How is everything in the painted world not pointless? None of it mattered because the story is ultimately about people in the "real" world who don't even get revealed until act 3. The first 2/3 of the game are just setup for this family drama. The family drama is fine but in the end you're just deciding the fate of one woman. "For those who come after" and all that is made a sidestory.
Explain why any of it matters outside this family drama.

I don't know if you've noticed but what OP is complaining about has come to be common criticism of the story. You can continue to be racist and call everyone brown but that doesn't change the fact that the amount of people calling out issues with the story is too high to just brush it off as low IQ takes. Half the threads devolve into who understood the plot more or who's more educated than the other person

People will just argue with you about what "pointless" means and keep repeating that all the painted people are real sentient beings or whatever philosophical reddit argument.

They can't accept that a huge amount of people reach act 3 and stop giving a shit about all these characters because they literally don't matter to them anymore.

Not really. Most Japanese streams choose the Maelle ending to keep everyone alive because they understand it’s just another world, like a isekai, not like the Westoid sub-30 IQ types who think:

dude it’s just a dream, nothing matters, a meteor will fall on earth!!!

All the people of lumiere. All the previous expeditioners and their journals containing their last moments.
Those were all real people who lived lives and who came from generations of people before.
They were very much real people. This ultimately reflects the final choice. The destruction of the canvas its supposed to be an incredibly difficult decision because both characters are essentially right.

he has never heard of existential angst

That feeling of pointlessness you have is in itself a theme of the game.

Try to consider how what comes before relates to what comes after. How the world we use as a set up then reflects and is reflected upon by what we learn later.

For instance, Maelle feels trapped in Lumiere, like she doesn't belong. She doesn't have a family to belong to aside from Gustave and so she just wants to get away from it all. She just wants to escape. That should sound familiar to you when you consider Alicia's goals and intentions. There are quite a lot of allusions throughout the story like this that all layer on top of each other.

they all die anyways because [HEADCANON]

Here comes the guy with the "a meteor will fall on earth in X years" argument

Pretty shit analogy there, anon. Not an argument.

The entire story has always been about that family. It's wrapped in a metaphor and then unveiled by act 3.

And how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning

You ony think that because you're slow and aren't used to consuming anything that requires basic compression or human intellegence to enjoy.

Right from the start of the game they expertly set up the final reveal, there's copius amounts of dialogue and scenes that make complete sense once you make it to the major reveal, and it gives more depth to all those scenes when you think back to them
Side note you dont get to take back the feelings you felt before the reveal, you're mentally like a toddler whose made that santa claus isn't real,
when you should be an adult who feels greatful and fortunate your parents went through painstaking effort to make the world feel so magical with silly rituals like christmas

"There's nothing focused on Lumiere" except for y'know the whole reason you're doing the titular Expedition that encompasses 2/3 of the game. I could rephrase it as "The focus of most of the game is the entire Canvas world and the focus of the end is one woman and her family outside the Canvas".

I'm aware. Oblivion is inevitable and I would rather just let them stay dead then revive them and give them false hope their kids might live on. This is not counting how we're in a situation where Verso's kid soul isn't going to rest until Renoir or Clea intervenes.

Even now you're unable to actually engage with arguments, anon.

Even now your brain is smooth

Yes, retroactively it was all about Alice and company, but that's not what we got invested in because we didn't know they existed. Most of the way through this story and I'm suddenly being told to care about whole new people, granted one is another version of someone we know but she's really not, is she.

Great talk man.

There's so much about your first take through the story that should have tipped you off that you weren't fully understanding things, like the shades and the monologue about those who know not that they are not. Just because you fell into Maelle's shoes and became just as enraptured in the drug of escapism as she did doesn't mean the story was never about that; it was always about that, and it's done with clear purpose. The goal is to immerse you not just into the world or the characters but even a thought process and then pull the wool from your eyes.

Plotting is hard, that's why stories in popular media are le epic twists. Why work to create foreshadowing or develop characters and give them arcs, when you can just do an asspull instead?

The game starts with only four people for you to care about because they’re the only ones alive, and ends with you still only caring about those four people, plus your dog and a flying push toy. Literally nothing changed, aside from them switching the MCs.

thats what bugs me about this game, everything is vague and the understanding of what happens is up to interpretive theories that hold no value until the big reveals happen and suddenly everything has just been a metaphor. And before you ask yes I had already theorized the expedition was in a painting, and there was something meta going on with Renoir and the masked girl. My grievance is not rooted in misunderstanding the story but of criticism with the literary techniques used to tell it

It requires little intelligence to follow the story. If you were intelligent you'd see that my objections related to the themes and ultimate catharsis of the story, not following its plot. It's an emotional question, not intellectual one.
You can absolutely recontextualize your feelings, I don't even know what that means. Do you lack the capacity to consider your own feelings? You lack emotional intelligence, anon.

Why work to create foreshadowing or develop characters and give them arcs, when you can just do an asspull instead?

Nigger you straight up did not play the game if you think this is an asspull with no foreshadowing

main "villain" is called the Paintress

lyrics to several songs spell out the real story (in French)

HOW WERE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW

you would die anyway one day, so why prolong the inevitable. kill your self now.

expecting people to know a dead language

expecting to make us think French people are real

I did see a twist coming, they definitely foreshadowed it. I just don't feel they did a good job making me actually care about Alice and her family in the end. I wasn't invested. As another anon points out, it's all just a metaphor. Cool. Dealing with a heavy theme doesn't automatically make your story worthy, especially when that theme doesn't come up until the end.
You're somewhat correct although I'd point out we spent far, far more time with the first four MCs, I didn't really care about the second set

By Act 3, everyone is dead.

the only good ending. plus the lying cunt get to suffer. play the piano bitch.

That theme comes up throughout the entire game actually. You don't care about Alicia because you're drawing a hard line between the her you knew and the her you know now when there is no such difference in reality.

then they didn't do a good job because all three acts feel like different narratives

Sounds like personal preference. The only thing that changed is Gustave to Verso, and in Act 3, I ended up liking Verso more than Gustave.

In my view they're almost different people, or two aspects of a person.
I mean we're discussing storytelling, it all comes down to one's own preferences. There's no objective truth here.

yeah acts 3 when they drop the balls, could be longer dbh. feels like they are dead set to make it tragedy by forcing these 2 endings

I know you think that, that's why I said that you think that. I'm telling you that you shouldn't because they aren't.

I know you think that, you've said it several times, but I don't agree. She is one person leading two different lives. Maelle doesn't remember being Alice and when she does her whole personality changes.

She acts exactly the same. She has more meta knowledge of her circumstances, but as a person she is no different. She is still running away from reality and grief, still being saved by those around her, still totally lack in self worth and unable to see the care others around her have for her. She never actually changes.

i just want to protect these smile

Act 1 is about Gustave overcoming the grief of losing Sophie (and everyone else) and continuing to move forward

Act 2 is about Maelle overcoming the grief of losing Gustave and continuing to move forward

hmmmmmm

You and I didn't play the same game if you think Act 3 Maelle is the same character as Acts 1 and 2. The way she talks, acts, is totally different. She's not really the same character anymore. Would you be the same person if, right now, your memory was suddenly flooded with the reality of being a totally different person in a totally different world? What is a person but the sum of their experiences? Her experiences radically change with the revelation,understandably so but there it is.

maelle sad about gustave but she move on and get her revenge

You're recontextualizing your feelings out of spite because you're low iq and got irrationally upset at an expertly set up and justified plot reveal.
You can literally choose to stop being pressed and just enjoy what you enjoyed about the game. The greater context of their world doesn't in anyway invalidate any of the lives in the paintings or any of the enjoyment you got out of trying to achieve their goals of killing the paintress and resolving their dellima
Mind you, you're talking about being upset that the video game characters within in a painting is a video game aren't real, it's beyond ironic.

funny because out off all the dessandre, only alicia could deal with her grief better, only because her experience living as maelle

Again, she has meta knowledge but as a person, down to her core, she is the same person dealing with the same issues in the same ways.

expertly set up and justified plot reveal

if by expertly setup you mean just encoding all metaphors into vague dialogue and imagery that no one (not even you) would ever in a million years be able to piece together a theory that isn't something more than a shot in the dark based on nothing then yeah I guess your right

It's not spite. I liked the game overall beyond the story. It's also, again, not an intellectual question. Obviously there was going to be a reveal, there were enough hints. A plot twist in and of itself does not make for a good story.
Like I said, most of the game worked for me. Great gameplay, voice acting, score, etc. Just didn't connect to the story twist.
Yes I'm aware of the meta thing here about the game having a fake world within its own fake world but what's the point of engaging with a story at all if you're just going to be dismissive because it's a story. There's a difference between "I am engaging with a story which is obviously fictional" and "This character is learning their whole world is fake". If you don't see the distinction there, you're an idiot.
The greater context does kind of invalidate their lives as they exist purely to please this one woman from another world, the real world. It's essentially just fucking WandaVision all over again. That might be my biggest complaint: this type of story has been done to death. They seemed to be doing something original but then it just becomes the tired old story of "living in a happy simulated reality vs living in a bleak real world" that dozens if not hundreds of stories have done before.
Honestly, now that I think about it, that's what it boiled down to for me. A story that's been done before.

I'm honestly shocked people actually have any sort of investment in Lumiere. Like you were there for less than an hour and I don't give any fucks about the people there.

I feel more bad for the Hestrals and those big hairy troll dudes than the Lumiere people.

No

I don't get people who play a game with the premise "you're fighting to save the people back home" and don't care about that.

As if the story of fighting the evil demonlord who is threatened to destroy the rest of the world isn't one of the oldest stories in the book. Your problem isn't that it's been done before, it's just that you feel betrayed by it not being what you expected.

what the hell does this even mean. The whole point of going on the expedition was to save the younger generations, you know the people that live in Lumiere.

Even if I grant you your argument, the game still turns out to be deciding the fate of this one person, but in a wildly different context than what the story started out as, and the majority of the cast don't really matter beyond her story

other stories have been done to death which means its ok for this one to do it too

unbreakable argument you got there champ

No, I expected a twist, the game telegraphs the fuck out of that. And yes, "stop the bad guy trying to kill everyone" has been done to death, but in a thousand variations, the best of which add something new to that formula. I don't see how this differs from the many stories where a character is choosing between "happy simulation" and "sad reality". That exact dilemma shows up in many stories and I don't really see what this did differently in the end. Yes, the setting and art style and such have unique elements but the story itself just plays that formula straight.

It is okay, yeah. Nothing new under the sun, the only difference being in the way it's presented, and this story does present itself in an expert fashion to immerse you in exactly the circumstances of its characters.

You can't argue for the moral and ethical argument of sentience and the genocide of people while also advocating the equivalent of necromancy.

But you're not just deciding the fate of one person. That's where the whole argument over the endings comes from.

are you me? this is the same problem I had with the story too

You realize they only care about the journey.

cope fanboy retard. making the story pointless is the undeniable effect of doing this trope.

the final boss fight is an equivalent to a father running around, holding his belt, and trying to hit his child with the build while the child and his or her imaginary friend attack the father

Brainlet-kun, it’s another world, not a dream.

It doesn't present it any different than the hundreds of other versions of this narrative.

thats why we choose maelle because its involve the person we care about and we get revenge for our boi gustave

Sure, but even in Maelle's ending the focus is on her, not the Canvas. It's made clear that thematically she's the focus, everything to do with the Canvas is just deciding what kind of life she's going to live. There's little to no discussion of the implications of the people in the Canvas, their sentience, their choices, etc.

If you care about her, you destroy the Canvas. The whole world is just her cope. Lady needs to move the fuck on. If the central metaphor is grief, in world is "dwell on your grief" better than "move on from your grief". I've known people who suffered real loss and the ones who dwell in it and can't move on are always miserable.

a world that's completely insignificant and unviable.

Actually the whole game takes place inside a grain of dirt in some guys ass crack

"hey it's not a dream" so it's all good.

no it's trash for the same reasons.

It's not really a fleshed out world though, it exists because of one soul

no dude you see it was foreshadowed that the game takes place in a grain of dirt in a dude's ass crack therefore it's actually brilliant you just don't get metaphors dude

This entire game's theme could be better told in a 30 minute episode of The Twilight Zone. In fact I think they covered this same premise several times.

guys it's just a painted world nothing matters!

retards completely missing the alegory of a god destroying the world

people side with the god because muh sad boy and muh escapism

Except in real life imaginary friends can't actually hurt the father like the painted people can

no foreshadowing

Negative IQ

Considering doing a challenge run of this at some point. Probably a Gustave/Verso solo to start with, though not really how much else could be done with the game(I very briefly considered No Pictos but that would be boring as fuck, maybe only equipping them and no equipping just passive ones? I'll keep brianstorming.).
Do Luminas spent on Gustave transfer over to Verso when he joins or do you just need to save them for Verso later?

It's not a metaphor for God, it's a metaphor for grief. It was a very easy metaphor and somehow you still missed it

You didn't play the game.

Interesting how much the defense of this game's story comes down to

you're brown

you didn't really play it

you're dumb

the underlying structure is very gnostic, to be fair

because 99% of the time it's true

the mother comes in halfway through and grabs him from behind and lets the kid go to town

I just finished about 2 hours ago, I stopped giving a shit about the story when gustave died. I think it was a poor decision to kill off the most charismatic and likable character, all the other party members end up feeling like side characters with nothing to unite them.

if you can't even bring yourself to engage with criticism, you're either too dumb to understand the criticism or too dumb to have understood the game you just played

1 hp seems to be the hot thing.

>you're brown

>you didn't really play it

>you're dumb

If the sandals fits...

Because that's what they are, side characters to Alice's narrative

Tempting, but admittedly I'm not quite good enough at consistently dodging and parrying, so I'll probably stick that one on the backburner.

Wow i thought the same thing

FF7R has "forshadowing" too.
but it's not until they commit to the retarded asspull that the plot becomes truly irredeemable garbage.
up until that point they can still salvage it by going in another direction.

So FFTA for a Netflix-watching audience?

the final attack

but A LOT of the criticism comes from someone either not playing the game and operating off a half-formed understanding gleaned from Youtube and/or streamers, or being unironically too dumb to grasp the story. The brown thing is just a coincidence (maybe).

Or, y'know, those are the same 3 arguments that pueds on this board have used for over a decade
Yes

Maelle is literally a child who was severely burnt, carries the guilt of letting Verso die, and the blame for it from her sister and mother. her mother hate her because her painted version is STILL that burnt blind version of her. the dessandre was an awful family. maelle found her new family who treat her nice and love her. i glad she got gustave, lune, sciel, emma for her.

destroying the legacies of your brother the thing left from your brother is not a good way to grief. go see a therapist irl, they wont suggest you to throw away painting of your son to heal your grief. thats just dumb. there are many things to overcome grief, destroying things that remember you on your loss is not one of it.

First fucking song with english lyrics in the first area literally has

Feel the ink flowing in your veins

It will be blood of your life

Suspended time

Daughter

Sister

Mother

Paintress

youtube.com/watch?v=czyNFmOW0ag

I don't understand how these people are so retarded. No I didn't figure it out instantly but going through act 2 I could slowly piece together most of it.

Why would someone who didn't even play it bother to have an opinion of it

Gustave sacrifices himself to save Maelle, and he becomes the hero.

I do it, and I'm a genocidal maniac.

That doesn't seem fair.

Anon Babble has been primarily populated by a pack of brown retards who don't play video games for over a decade

if
the
BOO-TUH
FITS

You know the game is good when the only thing people complain about is the ending and what should have been done

he asks on Anon Babble of all places

why would you shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane

Verso sacrifices everyone

Because the internet is full of retards and typing some bullshit is free

There's a world of difference between having a painting by your son and choosing to live the rest of your life in a fake world and spurning your family.

it's a good way if the legacy of your brother is an addictive drug for you that will kill you within a month

Why?

How many songs out there have nonsense or cryptic lyrics. Come on now.

you're too young for Anon Babble, son

it doesn't have to be a literal painting in some cunts house retard.
the universe could have different rules because everything was painted by the Painters INSIDE THE ACTUAL WORLD.

You act like it HAS to be the most low IQ and uncreative twist. no other direction was possible.
here's an idea. you can still do metaphors without fucking up the subtlety and making the world fake even in the context of the story.

Or it's filled with retards who can't articulate their opinions so they just spam "brown and "pseud" over and over like monkeys flinging their own shit

It's Mass Effect 3 all over again
But to some extent, a bad ending can ruin an otherwise good game if the story was a key element of it. I don't care if a DOOM game has a shit ending, for example.

a story can have multiple themes, retard.

both can be true

You didn't sacrifice only yourself, did you, Verso?

Anyone have that image depicting Maelle/Alicia elevating through the gnostic stages

most people aren't arguing over whether the ending was good or not, they're arguing over which ending is the "better" ending

In his mind he did because the people in the Canvas are both fake and ultimately doomed either way. Either they die now or they die soon with Alive succumbs and dies. He's picking the path that at least brings her back to the real world.

But the world isn't fake even in the context of the story. The painted world is real. The people in it are real. Renoir, at the very least, sees them as real, or he wouldn't have apologized to them. Verso demonstrates his own free will in choosing self-destruction to save Alicia.

ME3 discourse started as "ending bad" but once they fixed it with Citadel it became a decade of fighting in the fandom over which is the "correct" ending

I honestly thought I wasn't going to like the game with the Dessendre family reveal but this game absolutely won me over in the end. I don't know how people can hate it.
Maelle's ending is KINO
and Verso's ending was sad but objectively the correct one

Is it real? What's the distinction between a person and a construct that perfectly mimics a person? It's possible the people in the painted world are just simulated people with no actual consciousness or sentience. They behave the ways they do because that's how they were created to act.

and E33 didn't have an "ending bad" phase for most people, except retards I guess

I didn't say it did? I just said that, like ME3, you know it's a good game when the main criticism is just fighting about the ending

The Canvas will never die in the Maelle ending because both her soul and Verso’s soul will be there. Also, there’s no reason to destroy it when she dies, since nobody would use that Canvas again. It’s a perfect world where everyone is happy forever.
but nooo Versofags need to kill everyone and move on.

there was plenty of other criticism about ME3 besides the ending

Maelle dies like a month later

Aline loses her shit again after burying two kids in less than a year

Renoir is just utterly defeated, gives up entirely

Clea gets domed by wriggers

that line of thinking doesn't hold up as soon as you put a moment's thought into how it would apply to Verso. Why would Aline "program" him with the desire to kill himself? Why would he be able to go against the wishes of the Painters at all?

The painted world is real

it's literally painted. the "real world" is the real thing the painting is a toy for them.

It's possible the people in the painted world are just simulated people with no actual consciousness or sentience. They behave the ways they do because that's how they were created to act.

the devs themselves created their own timeline of events and created their own societal shifts and even decided to explore some characters backstories going back 4 generations.
At the very least they are much MUCH more than just simulated people, they're complex beings. They're human.

do you have nothing better to do than sit in these threads all day every posting the exact same thing? there is no false hope.

is the material universe not real just because it is a creation of the Demiurge within the perfect divine creation of the Monad?

Mass Effect 3 wasn't just a bad ending. The whole game felt like a step down in terms of writing for me

golden ending NG+ dlc

first camp, new dialogue where Gustave and Lune say that the nevrons are way tougher than they expected, but thankfully the lumina converter is also working way better than they could have hoped

Gustave vs Renoir plays out but Gustave is able to survive, Verso joins the party anyway

Story plays out as-is for the most part, but if you do enough of the side content the story ends with an available golden ending

Clea merges Real Verso's soul with Painted Verso and makes him mortal

Gustave, with the help of Clea and Verso, is able to create a device that maintains the canvas even without any painters in it

Time dilation effect of the canvas is removed, Gustave convinces Maelle/Alicia to leave the canvas and Renoir agrees not to destroy it if Aline and Alicia stop wasting away in it

Clea becomes real and becomes my RL gf

perfect ending

it doesn't fucking matter so long as you don't zoom out and show 'god' having tea in his apartment and looking and the tiny spec of a world you set your god damn story in.
it's even worse if 'god' is himself in another universe created by the writers.

I was impressed that it had me hoping/thinking Gustave was coming back to pulling the trigger on the option that will make sure he never comes back and feeling certain about it without ever having the characters do something out of character or have motivations that don't make sense

Men in Black is shit because the story is ultimately small scale

youtube.com/watch?v=OKnpPCQyUec

you are a nigger

just dont think about it and its fine

just turn your brain off

actual npc moment

Wish fulfillment ending

Sequel:

Maelle is the canon ending

The entire plot of the sequel centers on Maelle and Verso's incest child discovering his half-god powers and the fact that he can somehow leave the canvas

He spends the entire game killing writers with his aunt and searching for a way to bring his father, Verso, back.

Never buying your woke parry slop frogboy

Yes but still easily plausible
except Clea becoming my RL gf

What people should realize is that the people with the best perspective on the sentience of the painted people are Renoir and Aline. We don't really see Aline interact while coherent, but Renoir treats all of the painted people with a level of dignity, even apologizing to Verso.

I don't see any reason to speculate that Renoir is wrong here. I don't see why people get hung up on this. Verso ending is still the right one though

cute loli main character and white male MC fucking asian woman

VERY WOKE SAAR

Renoir acknowledges that the painted people are ultimately human
He's still willing to kill them all to save the lives of his wife and daughter, even if he would prefer to just leave the canvas alone - he only sees destroying it as a necessity because Aline and Alicia are basically addicts

Renoir treats them with dignity but Aline is actually horrible.
Painted Alicia is all you need to see. She literally exists just to suffer

joke ending. and yes it's stupid.
Now imagine if it took itself seriously, imagine if it was completely up its own ass with pretentious tone and asked you to care about the alien playing marbles? because his son died in a fire, bla bla who gives a shit.

you don't understand the concept of narrative focus.
how sad.

I immediately disregard anyone that compares the canvas to a save game, sims or vr.
It literally contains a piece of a human soul, those people are by extension a part of it and are real.
These same people who say it's not real, would have an existential crisis if God came down and said lol your universe is just my petridish.

it's smaller scale in a bigger scale so the smaller scale part doesn't matter!

Netflix Daredevil is the best thing in the MCU by a huge margin, but according to you nobody should bother watching it or think it's good because ultimately the story of Daredevil has no impact on the MCU as a whole

Hell, by your logic literally any story ever set in the real world that doesn't have globally relevant political stakes is pointless

the game pisses me off because it asks you to treat the canvas people as not mattering 'not real' without ever giving any indication of why this is the case. incredibly sloppy -- if you use your brain for two seconds the whole thing collapses.

no one cares about your marvel netflix slop or false equivalencies.

anon has literally never once in his life questioned something about a setting or story that wasnt explicitly spoon fed to him

This is the definition of npc

The real question is: whatever she chooses, will she be happy? Will she have fun?

shes not happy with either outcome. there is no happy ending for her.

She was willing to throw her life away for that. It was a choice she wouldn't regret living with, but retards prefer to force choices on others like they are their parents.

no it fucking doesn't, Verso's ending is practically an explicit confirmation the painted people are real, and Maelle's ending is conversely appealing exactly because the game expects you to treat the painted people as real

use YOUR brain for more than two seconds, you fucking pinhead

she has a chance to grow and be happy in Verso's ending, even if she's not terribly happy in that moment
her own ending is the pleasure cube, she'll feel content for a brief time, but she'll ultimately just die without growing or changing or achieving meaningful happiness >but what IS "meaningful" happiness

she has a chance to grow and be happy in Verso's ending, even if she's not terribly happy in that moment

How can you be so sure? Just because it's "real"?

Maelle is dead in after act 2 any way.
she's sad and crippled in versos ending.
in her ending they write her into a psychopath for no reason which is contrived garbage.

Expedition 3 was the "Climber's expedition"

they did this by installing a bunch of handholds

I feel like it would've been easier to just develop climbing gear.

You didn’t even play it.

because she's 16 years old and won't die from an overdose in a month (probably)

Don't you grow up in a hurry, your mom'll be worried, aw
It was all part of the story, even the scary nights
Thank you for all of the glory, you will be remembered, aw
Thank you to all of the heroes of the night (night, night)
They gotta repaint the colors, the lie is wearin' off
Reality is upon us, colors drippin' off
Colors drippin' off...

how do you think they got the handholds up there

"without growing or changing or achieving meaningful happiness"

YOU WILL wageslave like a cuck robot

YOU WILL marry a random whore and have kids and be cheated on

YOU WILL go to garbage parties and social shit

YOU WILL be happy

yeah i agree with you, maelle's ending is the ethically superior one, the problem is the game doesn't. jennifer svedberg-yen is scoffing at you for failing to get her cool original anti-escapism aesop.

I dont know, magic? Why do you think you dont have any climbing gear?

Aline hates her, probably more so for being the one directly responsible for kicking her out of the canvas.

Clea is an autist cunt

Renoir is the only decent one but he won't live forever.

Alicia is doomed to live disfigured and without a voice. Those scars most likely still hurt her face too.

Why are people getting mad by a very common trope in JRPGs? The bait and switch has been an innate part of the genres identity and this game at least tries to use the narrative setup to enhance the game’s over arching themes. Unironically, you’re no better than Maelle if you can’t let go of Lumiere and its world. The whole point is their lives shouldn’t have happened to begin with and coming to terms with that is akin to experiencing the same grief the family went through. Unironic ludonarrative harmony.

so true
this is the greatest game of all time and really filters the dumbasses unlike me

bait

both endings treat the painted people as real

one kills them to free them from enslavement

the other enslaves them to free them from death

bravo jennifer

Because typical JRPG stories are too juvenile to discuss seriously. I'm not even trying to be mean about it, that's just how it is, from presentation to dialogue.

so disabled people should just kill themselves, is that it?

The JRPG ludokino ending is saving the world with the Maelle ending, the Verso ending is the midwit one.

Because typical JRPG stories are too juvenile to discuss seriously

I agree with you until E33 came along. It actually tries to make a point with its story instead of pandering to the weeb crowd with some tired trope ridden story. Not saying it’s Shakespeare or anything but cmon, let’s not pretend like this games story is in the same sphere as some tales of game.

i mean, it'd be retarded for maelle to "enslave" her friends. why in the fuck would she do that. she revived verso against his will, sure, but why the fuck would she enslave them.

did she turn evil for no reason like dany ?

projection. this game was literally written by reddit

Verso ending is literally a creation fighting creator for the right to self-determine

not PEAK JRPG lvdokino

see

for no reason

nigger she's Clea's sister (and a woman)

If she can deny one painted person their free will, what's stopping her from denying any of them their free will? If Gustave said "I don't want you to kill yourself in this world," would she listen to him and leave, or would she repaint him so he doesn't think that/

she can deny one painted person their free will

first of all, we have no evidence that she even does this. verso is old and wants to die, but even if she's forcing him to play the piano he has enough will left over to be miserable about it and look sad, so there's limits to her powers. if she could just make him happy she would.

secondly, she's maelle! the game presents her as a good and innocent person in every instance we see of her up until this very moment. she's not going to crawl into her friend's minds to exert control.

Because she has magic powers to paint worlds, dufus

they're both stupid and rely on artificially contrived fantasy elements to make the decision seem more difficult. The game is about grief but the final decision isn't about just letting go of the fantasy world that you are trying to escape in because that would be too simple, everyone knows thats the correct answer even if Maelle has body dysmorphia and complications because the real world answer is getting medical and psychiatric help. No the game is too scared to talk about any of that so they switch to saying "by the way this painting is full of people that are 100% real and if you leave they are going to die and its your fault." Thats not some shit a person going through grief (even complicated grief) deals with and it's the part that takes me out of the story. And yeah in real life people refuse help which is what Maelle was doing but even then it decides to show her as a crazy greek goddess or something

Apparently even if they have the magical power to paint entire worlds

verso ending is superior because in the maelle ending alicia never paints more worlds and thus millions of people never come into existence.

the painters have a holy duty to create life, you can't abdicate that kind of responsibility to just jerk off in a single one of your creations, you have a duty to all the other worlds that can't come into being without you. if one has to die so others can live, so be it.

She removed his scar (or made him remove his scar), she has clearly changed him from the person he was even if she isn't directly controlling his actions.

Also she clearly starts to lose her grip in Act 3 when she becomes Alicia again. Her conversation with Renoir at the end is practically textbook drug addict talk.

>Gustave, with the help of Clea and Verso, is able to create a device that maintains the canvas even without any painters in it

There's no need for a painter to be inside the canvas for it to function. The "engine" so to speak is Verso's soul shard shown in the ending. IDK how people miss this shit, attention span issue I guess

The whole dilemma comes from the fact that Alicia and Aline could just GTFO and stop vandalizing the painting for a hot sec, but they don't

no one's denying that the writers lazily tried to paint her as a drug addict to signal the choice they wanted you to make.

but she clearly isn't "puppeteering" or "controlling" people in a way that would "enslave" them. if she could truly enslave/control people; she would've forced verso to be happy. verso's misery proves gustave/sciel/lune's happiness is legitimate.

muh real world, muh real life, realism, psychiatric and stuff

in a fantasy France December 33 where painters and writers have magical powers

do you even realize how stupid you sounds

if i die i win

least cucked westoid

thats right I forgot you people like this game because of all the metaphors that make you feel smart but cant even analyze the real world concepts its based on

Based. Brownies seething at you cant understand western greek tragedy and stories.

I dunno, it seems like a lot of people completely missed the addiction parallels () and just take everything at face value.

And the simple fact is, Verso doesn't want to be alive. But Maelle is forcing him to be. She objectively removed a significant part of him, the scar. On at least some level, she is denying him his free will and self-determination. And it's possible, even likely, she can and will do the same to the other painted people. Maybe she's not directly puppeteering them, but she IS controlling them to some degree. And att the VERY LEAST she has the ability to delete and recreate them basically at will.

greeks

not brown

free myself from the whims of the Demiurge

not winning

Theyre literally autistic i think. They cant understand they arent human nor real just because they liked them in game.
Did they explain why they picked maelle further? Because i definitely felt like non westerners cant grasp the shakespeare/greek influence here and their obsession with chuuny and isekai makes me think theyre retards.

by begging the demiurge to destroy you and your world

ultimate slave mentality

I destroy my own world and myself, fuck you demiurge you're not gonna get me

denying someone the right to die isn't denying you free will. or are canadians the only people with free will?

why exactly is it likely that she'd keep gustave/lune/sciel alive against their wishes?

i think you're just massively overstating the significance of her 'control.' if one of my friends awakened to godhood suddenly i wouldn't see my life as inherently meaningless. especially if she can't tamper with my emotions or thoughts.

i mean, would you?

This game introduces you to these characters, makes you care for them, fosters attachment—and then turns around and tells you, "They were all simulations, and simulations are meaningless." (Verso literally says this.) Maybe you felt something similar, but to me, it felt like the game was sneering: “Hey, don’t get too immersed in this game. It’s not worth it. It’s all fake. You cried over that? You idiot.” It was hollow. It was painful. And the structure that leads to the ending is a disaster. It pretends to offer you choices, but there's no real freedom. If you choose to preserve the virtual world, Maelle is left to die a tragic death surrounded by puppet-like expedition members and Verso's aged, decaying performance. On the other hand, if you choose to destroy the virtual world, you are forced to push a button that erases everyone and everything you loved. In reality, it's an overtly biased, coercive design, it borders on emotional torture. Even if there's no happy ending—even if it's tragic—a story must still contain some form of truth. It must treat the audience’s love and empathy with sincerity and honesty. I don’t think Expedition 33 meets that standard.

literally forcing him to do something he doesn't want to do

not denying him his free will

game was sneering:

No to me it was the game telling me no matter how attached i get to stories i have to wake up one day and move on.

I really do not understand how people arrived at the conclusion that the game is telling you the painted people are just simulacrams/fake when it repeatedly goes to great lengths to show otherwise

there's "free will" as a property of consciousness, and there's "free will" as in the ability to freely take the actions you desire. the government denies you the ability to kill people, including yourself. but your consciousness has the property of free will.
maelle (probably) removes the second from verso, but not the first -- as he is clearly unhappy and resistant in the ending.

he doesn't destroy shit tho, he just follows the demiurge's whims because his world isn't useful anymore
also, again, why is verso supposedly more real than everyone else in lumiere?

inb4 muh soul

he's just a better language model

e are just simulacrams/fake when it repeatedly goes to great lengths to show otherwise

You mean goes to great lengths to tell you that? How can you ignore every conversation where its clear they arent real.

the game telling me no matter how attached i get to stories i have to wake up one day and move on.

this is like the most trite message in all of video games at this point. done to death. this was the message of omori, this was the message of undertale, this was the message of FFTA, i could go on. we need new ideas.

thats just your inner consciousness telling you to get a job

They are real shes just saying he isnt real verso

why the FUCK would the Demiurge's whims be to destroy the world that brings it comfort
you know Alicia is the Demiurge in this metaphor right? You literally fight the Demiurge in Verso's ending

clone/copy = dream/llusion/not real/fake

please learn english

how can you ignore the very clear narrative showing that they are real, and Renoir (the only sane member of the family) treating them as real people?

brother the writer was found on Reddit what did you think was going to happen

a painted copy of a human would be a fake version yes anon. I think you dont understand english.
no shes pretty much indicating its all of lumerians.

e very clear narrative showing that they are real,

like what? renoir deletes them instantly without hesitation and only talks to them a few times. he doesnt treat them like he does his family at all.

you're saying we need to move on?

Renoir (the only sane member of the family)

Please play the side content.

literal centuries of interesting media, from pinocchio to blade runner, exploring the line between real humans and robots/clones/simulations

t-they're not real because i wrote so!

thank you miss svedberg-yen but you're just a midwit

so who's the real benevolent god, gnostic-chan?
renoir?

Like fucking Painted Verso demonstrating that he has free will and desires independent of and in fact counter to the wishes of his creator and other Painters. Renoir doesn't treat them like his family because they're not his family, but he still treats them as people. He wouldn't apologize to them if he didn't think they were people.

the plot is so pointless and idiotic.
Canvases are a stupid invention and anyone who uses one legitimately deserves to be killed.

Verso's soul shard

Versos soul is "tired" it can't keep (not FFX dreaming) forever so
-if crack addict painters are inside the painting they fuck shit up and the painting slowly kills them
-if they're not, the soul runs out of energy and all the fake painted people it constructed and powered disappear anyway.

even if you just paint life and leave it there knowing how garbage the mechanics of a canvas are. that's still clearly immoral and pointless.
the only moral, intelligent thing to do was never paint on a canvas in the first place.

Jennifer Svedberg-Yen and Guillaume Broche

exploring the line between real humans and robots/clones/simulations

Poor example. most of them have some part of the story where the creator prays to gods to grant life. At no point does aline pray to god to have her creations come to life.

fact counter to the wishes of his creator and other Painters

he behaves exactly as real verso did because theres a part of versos soul in the canvas. the lumerians dont have a part of versos soul because they were created by aline.

Many people end up siding with Verso in the final decision. Because we all know—we must live in reality. But in doing so, we forcibly drag a 16-year-old girl out of the only refuge she had, in the name of "doing what's best for her." We burn everything she loved—all the “fakes”—to the ground. And the game makes her desperate love for that world painfully clear through her screams and violent resistance. So of course the audience is left feeling violated, emotionally betrayed.

After all is said and done, Maelle looks like someone who’s been dragged out of a drug den. She holds a tiny doll in her hands, staring at the echoes of what she once loved. Her body is disabled—she has no eyes, can barely speak—and she looks at us through the screen, as if to ask: “So... thanks to your decision, I now get to live in the real world. Are you happy?”

But if you choose Maelle’s side, the game punishes you in a different way. It shows Maelle and the people around her decaying like something out of a horror film, and the message becomes:
“You foolish idiot. You made the wrong choice! Go back and push the button. Kill all those fakes you loved!
Because reality is the only thing that matters—and fiction has no value.”

While playing this game, I kept thinking of TLOU2, it also forces you to make impossible decisions—and you watch people you loved die in the most brutal ways. Some have called it a “beautiful tragedy.” But I disagree. Let me offer a blunt example: If someone spits on another person’s cherished keepsake, insults their family, or mocks their race or nationality, they will certainly stir emotions. But that doesn’t make it meaningful or artistic. In the same way, this game leads the player to pour affection into the expedition members—only to stomp on that affection in an instant.“Guess what? It was all fake. It wasn’t worth it.” It doesn't take responsibility for the emotions it evokes. Instead, it ridicules them.

gods are mistery meat french people

real good ending would've been genociding lumiere, game paris and real paris

Of course it can keep going, that canvas was painted when Verso was a kid and was left alone for years before Aline came in.

game tells you and shows you staying in the painting too long just kills you long before the ending choice is presented

wtf this game is mocking me for choosing the "stay in the painting and die" ending

yeah motherfucker they gotta take their own advice. dumped their souls into a fantasy game for six years and now they're telling US we spend too much time on the computer?

Instead, it ridicules them.

Nah it doesnt. It makes it clear that there are many tempting things out there that we need to turn away from no matter how nice it is. The verso ending clearly shows maelle beginning the process of healing and moving on.

If you side with verso you admit that the plot was pointless garbage.
if you side with Alicia the writers turn her into a psycho for no reason to punish you for not picking their shitty underdeveloped family drama they want you to care about without earning it.

most of them

you read pinocchio and stopped there, anon. my second example, blade runner, already doesn't fit

ish you for not picking their shitty underdeveloped family drama they want you to care about without earning it.

No if you pick verso you are the adult who realizes we cope in a variety of ways and we cant do that. The hard part is that the game breaks the 4th wall by making the world so nice you dont want to pick versos side because you are like maelle by the end of the game.

blade runner, already doesn't fit

an robot mimicking humans will never be a human anon. I did read it and i didnt bother to type out a rebuttal to each one. Theyre all midwit traps.

It's a western game with a western story. Why the fuck would I care about the opinion of bugs?

gosh it's almost like the game deliberately made the choice difficult by getting you to care about the characters

yea but verso is still right. only weak minded people picked maelle.

write story

you rike it?

TOO BAD

it was all a dreeeeeeeeeeaaaam

wake up anon! don't sleep like protagonist!

how can you retards think this shit as deep it's beyond me

No, the lives in the painting are real and that's why Renoir treats them the way he does. They are clearly sentient and it's what makes the choice of destroying the canvas such an impactful decision, even if there is clearly a right decision

the actual story wasnt a dream. You being a midwit read into the wrong story and couldnt figure it out.

the ending honestly feels like it was made to solely drum up discussion to seem more interesting as a game. Like there is literally nothing good about either ending, and I know there doesnt need to be but come on this screams like they are wanting to be the next last of us

If someone has kids and picked Maelle it's GG for those kids

The Japs know the world is real and choose the Stacy Maelle ending. This proves they have a higher IQ than you

That soul is ragged as fuck and wants to end it all. it can't keep going.
with how convoluted and badly designed the mechanics of a canvas are, no one who uses one is a good person.
they all clearly deserve death.

well yeah but I can understand people who pick Maelle

an robot mimicking humans will never be a human anon

the entire fucking point of the novel/movie is how the distiction stops progressively making sense and leaves a sense of existential doubt

but i'm very intelligent and it's a trap therefore i picked verso

bug people can't into souls

why the fuck are you replying to me nigger, both endings are shit but maelle's the better one

unironically. shinto has strange ideas about souls.

but i'm very intelligent and it's a trap therefore i picked verso

correct ty! animals use camouflage to mimic other animals. That doesnt make them change species. a robot pretending to have emotions is still a robot pretending.

bugs think fabricated NPCs are real people

Sasuga. Must be why they're fine with the contrived bullshit where they get sent to a gameworld and all of a sudden every NPC is a real person.

High IQ is realizing both endings are garbage.

god don't tell me you're the christcuck of the other threads and you will start justifying your choice by saying

but robots haven't got jesus soul anon!

If I ever make a game, I want to include the following as a secret ending.

some hard to reach place, "are you sure you want to uncover the secret of this world?"

some more prompts like "there's no going back", "you won't get an achievement" etc

fade to black, cut to an unkempt middle age dude in a wife beater sleeping in an armchair with a bobble of whiskey on his lap

he wakes up, rubs his eyes, stares at a photo of a woman who looks suspiciously a lot like the game's female lead

he inhales, stands up, grabs a shotgun off a wall and shoots his brains out (not graphic, just fade to black and then the shotgun sound)

How mad would you be?

I think the painted people are real people, which is why I picked Verso since they don't deserve to be enslaved to the whims of a god

but robots haven't got jesus soul anon!

You dont need to be a christcuck to think animals cant have the same rights as humans like voting. There is clearly a distinction between humans and everything else. Soul or whatever you want to call it.

They are real, but you literally see Verso's soul and they don't have one and the soul is being tortured keeping them alive in perpetuity. So the stakes are still high, but answer is still clear

The only way you can think they aren't sentient is if you think Renoir treats every painted person with dignity. If Verso has no feelings why apologize to him? If you don't trust Renoirs take then you're just asserting head cannon over the character with the most perspective on it that we interact with

but you ARE a christcuck arent you

the same rights as humans like voting

what kind of fucking example is this anon, a cat doesn't even fucking know what voting is

whatever you want to call it

it's called prioritizing your species, nothing so fucking trascendental as a soul

i mean to be honest i'd strip your voting rights and give them to chatgpt after this convo

but what if anon IS ChatGPT

, a cat doesn't even fucking know what voting is

neither does a robot pretending to be a human. that was the argument.
robots arent my species just because they might wear a skinjob.

Robots can't have children if I have sex with them. Also, they don't question why they exist or fight for survival. This comparison is extremely bad.

this dialogue is basically Clea explaining that both endings are shit

"Fight as Clea" ending when???

This comparison is extremely bad.

no it isnt. the argument was that robots using mimicry arent real humans and neither are the lumerians. who are all dead at the end anyway. its just gestrals and grandis and nevrons.

nigga we're not talking about deepseek here, we're talking about sci-fi where replicants' got basically everything that makes a human human

self awareness

creativity

impulses

instincts

emotions

capacity of expansion, change and growth

and the only difference is that we're bio-coded and they're tech-coded

your argument is

BUT THEY'RE FAKE

which is the literal dimwit npc take that they show at the beginning of each one of those novels/movies/games where a cockney retard with a baseball bat bashes a robot's head in the streets, which can be based but still retarded

and the only difference is that we're bio-coded and they're tech-coded

ok but in this game there is no indication they have any of that. so to keep the conversation on topic verso ending is correct.

this is literally reversed you actual retard

arent real humans and neither are the lumerians

wtf does "real" even mean here , lumerians are sentient, have blood and organs , can reproduce and create new things.
How are they different, the only actual difference is that one is composed of atoms and the other of magical particle or chroma.

replicants

This shit gets even more complicated when it turns out that replicants are genetically engineered according to Blade Runner 2049 (iirc this was a bit more vague in the original) and are basically grown in big tubes

can reproduce

no they dont. theyre painted by aline bro. do your reps.

blood and organs

no, theyre made of chroma not blood and organs. we see blood but they turn into rocks when they die.

Verso cares about his family more than anything else

Maelle cares about everything in the painting entirely

It's correct, but more fair would be if it's more like Verso being a 1-2 with Maelle being close to 4-7 rather than Maelle being towards 13-15

ok but in this game there is no indication they have any of that. so to keep the conversation on topic verso ending is correct.

they're chroma-coded
and again, if you consider them all fakes, why has verso got any priority over everyone else in lumiere? nothing makes it more real, just a better programmed (=painted) clone

no they dont. theyre painted by aline bro. do your reps.

now you are just making shit up

no, theyre made of chroma not blood and organs. we see blood but they turn into rocks when they die.

did you even play the game? the rock part is specifically when they are killed by nevron , this was designed by clea to fuck over aline.

why has verso got any priority over everyone else in lumiere?

he doesnt. he forces maelle out because she has priority. shes the one that matters in the end which is why people who like maelle pick verso ending.

Lumiererians aren't mimicry. A fairer comparison would be that God created the first humans (the first Lumiererians), and that’s it, everything after that was on them. Their descendants, personalities, motivations, love, etc., were all of their own volition.

Renoir doesn't treat them as if they aren't sentient. If you disagree with the one character that would know, then ok believe your head cannon

Verso ending is still right though, since they don't seem to have souls, and Verso's tortured soul is stuck painting to keep the soulless alive

They absolutely have blood and organs, even if they're made of chroma. This would be like saying "humans in reality don't have blood and organs since humans are made of carbon"

We also see from the lumina converter that they're capable of original thought. We see from all of them that they're capable of vastly different thought processes, opinions, attitudes, desires, etc. Even Renoir considers them the same as fully sentient people, the only reason he's willing to murder them all is to save the lives of his wife and daughter.

there is absolutely nothing to explicitly indicate whether the painted people have souls or not, but Maelle being able to pull Sciel and Lune back from gommage by pulling their "essence" back implies it.

you're either trolling or legitimately retarded

sounds like verso's got quite some human emotions there anon :^) mmmh i wonder

Is that a record or a soul though? I guess you could interpret it that way

In that case, though, the dilemma becomes "do all the other souls have a right to exist at the expense of one tortured soul". I still would side with verso

She's a painter
she can be the god of another world if she wanted
She could repaint lumiere but this time as a memorial to her dead brother, she can heal in a more healthy manner

now you are just making shit up

its said in game that lumerians are alines creation dude. did you play the game? Clea says in when you meet her first time and the paintress says in during the fight.

renoir seeks to use my own creations against me?

lumina converter that they're capable of original thought.

no indication gustave isnt just painted by renoir to empower the lumerians in killing aline.

Lumiererians aren't mimicry.

yes they are. aline paints them. its stated several times dude. i dont how you just ignore every plotline to pretend its some living organism in lumerie but its alines fake dollhouse.
id say that of you. cant read a single text in this game.

paint is just AI RNG nothing is real and nothing matters

I still would side with verso

so the anons saying that versofags are genocidal maniacs because muh single person feelings are right
literal woman behavior opening the borders to millions of refugees because of a single sad kid pic on facebook

If they are mimicry then why does Renoir always address them as if they're sentient? Thinking Renoir is wrong is just head cannon. Answer is still Verso, though

its said in game that lumerians are alines creation dude. did you play the game? Clea says in when you meet her first time and the paintress says in during the fight.

yes she initially created them, but the lumerians are still reproducing after that retard.

kek, Versofags really do be thinking like that

but the lumerians are still reproducing after that retard.

no they arent. shes painting them all. thats how alicia ends up getting mind wiped and born as a baby. not because the lumerians had sex but she was absorbed by alines chroma. how do yo u see that scene and just ignore it completely?

that is a good thing though. it means we are free to choose our own fate

Aline painted a baby into Sciel but then thought "ah nah cbf making another kid rn actually" and then forced Sciel to attempt to kill herself so that she'd have a miscarriage

You are retarded.

Yea, saying that the painting people are less important than the real world people is the same open borders. Having a hierarchy where the white woman is worth more than the people made with magic whose universe will surely end someday, possibly sooner with the painter family in disarray thus leaving the canvas unsafe, is definitely the same open borders. Yea, you're totally right and don't have it completely backwards at all

the sims program bugged out and didnt go to work as usual

for being gommaged and then rezzed lune and sciel took it well. unlike an actual living creature wouldnt.

i mean, yes when they talk about painted people but i've got the growing suspicion they're mostly christcucked and it all ends with a vague

b-but humans' got SOULS!

i've got a SOUL anons i'm not a FAKE!

presses the exterminatus button

i'm the good guy, they ain't got souls!

thats how alicia ends up getting mind wiped and born as a baby

alicia is a special case you fucking retard holy fuck do you really think the maelle scene apply to every characters??
aline just took her daughter and put her in place of a random citizen that all.
NOTHING indicate that this is what happening for every other characters.

Just because she has the power to do that doesn't mean she is making every baby after watching everyone fuck omnisciently while indulging and escapist fantasy where she lives with her family. Did you even think about this a little bit?

the sims program

If I'm playing The Sims and then one of my sims independently creates a device that allows them to start deleting my system files while screaming that it deserves life I'll probably consider it sentient too

What the hell are the Axons exactly?
Are they just like painted entities the family actually gives a shit about and invested themselves in?

So, if Verso is having sex with Lune and Sciel, is he technically having sex with his mom by proxy? retard

anon has a voyeurism fetish and he wants desperately for it to be canon

making the painting is always exterminist, that shit ain't gonna last forever, all they can make are doomed worlds. Apocalypse has to come sometime, why should come later at the total expense of the creators?

They're Renoir's expressions of his family
Selene is Aline
Visages is Verso
the one that was dead and holding up the city of Lumiere is Clea
the one in the mountains reaching for the skies is Alicia

This is very explicitly mentioned in the game

eventually the universe will have a heat death and end so you might as well just commit suicide right now

the total expense of the creators

the creators have a responsibility towards their creations. If they can't handle it, they shouldn't paint at all.

for being gommaged and then rezzed lune and sciel took it well

they took it well because they learned at the same time that is was possible to actually resurrect every single dead person they lost.
that a pretty good reason to take the news well.

Nice self portrait. I can tell that you because you ignored the part where the creator of the universe is at stake

I can't get over how much I love the main theme of the game.
I legit never get tired of hearing it
youtu.be/p00EF6_b5pI?si=i4iONu4iZQFroCoV

He’s a shill

The creator of the universe will never die because Verso's and Maelle's souls will be stuck in the canvas forever.

What's the time difference like in real-world and painted world? Painted world has been at least 67 years (probably more since Aline was probably in the painting for a significant time before Renoir went in and caused the fracture.

I can't tell what kind of powers or whatever the painters have in the real world. Alecia is as recovered as she probably can be, so it's probably been like, maybe between 1 and 2 years at least? The house is still under construction from the fire so it can't have been THAT many years even if they're immortal and don't age it definitely hasn't been 67+ years.

where the creator of the universe is at stake

If I have a child I should prioritise my life over his because I made him

never have kids anon

I didn't play the game.
Why is Clea's dead?

Maybe, but I think it's besides the point for the three acts we get. The family being killed by writers who were burning down the house full of canvases isn't probably going to save any of those worlds from that fate. So at some point prioritizing a creation over the creator will cost the other creations and that one itself

She died from AIDS after being fucked in the ass by Expedition 0 member.

Maelle's soul wouldn't be, she would die. Otherwise that would have been the stakes for Aline, unless your headcannon is just the Renoir had no idea what the fuck he was talking about

She’s not dead. Why are you trying to understand the story without playing the game, retard? lol

we know next to nothing about the writers or their anger with the painters, anything you could say about them is headcanon

what's the fucking point of painting shit if it's just heroin for those who do it
this fucking world makes no sense and it's just a big metaphor so irl fags can feel deep

Creating a world is not the same having progeny you dork

______________Simon killed it.

He's an ordinary Lumierian from Expedition 0 who Clea had a fling with, so she painted over him to be super strong. He's the hardest fight in the game by a HUGE margin

Okay why is it alive but impaled on a big sword and not moving at all then?

I feel like it's only been like maybe a couple of months in the real world compared to the 100 years in the canvas.

because I am a real person and not a fantasy creature living inside a painting.

youtube.com/watch?v=DHqia9xLiUg
this version is really underrated, i love putting it on in the background. was my go-to pick for camp ost.

Hardest fight in the game is beach volley 3.

They tried to burn down the house on the basis of them being painters, that's all you need to know to understand that the family having vulnerabilities makes all the canvases with the lives you value significantly less safe

blatantly posts spoilers in the catalog

tee hee look at me mom, I did it again

Rebellion against God
A puppet cuts his strings and wins his freedom
Any means necessary
Verso is based
Fuck the haters

i wish we had painted worlds because at least the fake people in there would probably end up being less retarded than the versofags itt

Ok, you got me on that

But I'm God, and you live in this world just so I can have fun watching you suffer. You're my creation.

abloo ablooo let me die bls

pick better godslaying chads anon

If God shitposts on Anon Babble then we are all truly made in his image

This game is a litmus test to see if people have the ability to move on after learning everything they knew was false.

PLAY, PIANO MAN! PLAAAAAAAY!
youtube.com/watch?v=kWVFEVWJMz8

Yeah Gustave telling Alicia to Gommage alongside them is totally the good ending bro.

the writing really suffers from the recent zeitgeist obsession with making everything morally grey. this is at its core a story about living with grief, loss and moving forward in life. the moral should be reality is worth living in spite of the allure of the fantasy, but in order to make the situation morally grey they made maelle disfigured and implies she commits suicide if she is forced out of the painting. it makes her a far less relatable character.

If someone with kids picks Maelle ending it's GG

Greeks are medBVLLS like the Southern French

I will kill the entire world because I don't like my little sister being God

Linkin park starts playing

Is there a "no parry/dodge bullshit" mode? If I wanted to do frame perfect timings or die instantly, I'd play a fighting game not a turn based RPG.

There is no indication she commits suicide in the verso ending. You're drunk

I agree the ending seemed forced to look intellectual

The Expeditions original purpose = 100 years of sacrifices to get Aline out and end the Canvas. Verso won Renoir won the Expeditions won. Cope and seethe 16 year old girl.

I also used that one a lot.
imagine Alicia being happy...

"do you want this crippled girl to face reality or live in a happy fake world

If you refuse to get good there is a game journalist difficulty just for the likes of you.

not in my game
keep playing the piano nigger

rebellion against god is killing all the humans and giving the gods what they want

Dodge and parry are only useful in the early game. You won’t use them anymore in the mid or late game because bosses don’t even get a turn.

i won!

dies

Paint me a gf please

Rebellion against God

it's the Gods arbitrarily choosing the fates of the mortals

true Greek tragedy moments

Also you know what else I don't get. Why does Maelle even need to stay in Verso's painting. She is a literal god. She could make a new painting filled with big dicked handsome men or whatever she's into. Who cares about his lame ass painting. I thought that was pretty dumb.

He already made his decision to die when he pulled Alicia out of the fire. His free will decision. Maelle and his psycho mother wanted to take that from him.

please please please please ignore gustave...

it's a copy anon

She feels guilty for killing her brother and her family hating her.

It's almost like she cares about the people in Verso's canvas

Yeah fuck the 16 years she lived as one them amirite.

She is a shitty painter, it is explicitly stated in the game.
There are no canvases of her creation.

She lived an entire 16-year life there. She also started to like the Painted Verso. It’s that canvas or nothing.

As a side note, the entire game is about how to deal with loss.
Aline, Maelle, Gustav, Renoir and Verso all have their own choice.
Maelle and Aline want to live out a fantasy, except Maelle pretends like she's doing it for the sake of others.
Verso and Renoir want to embrace the harsh reality. While Renoir cares more about doing the right thing as a father, Verso is more the type to put himself on the cross and erase himself for the sake of thers.

Then you have Gustav, who buries his pain and uses it to drive him. Although he ultimately believes his actions are futile and was really just looking for a chance to martyr himself.

Aline is the God of the painted people. She did not get what she wanted.

Even if you don't consider the painted people to be truly alive, the idea that fiction doesn't matter is a complete brainlet take

The most surface-level understanding of Expedition 33 still makes the Canvas meaningful as Maelle's life within the Canvas informs her decisions after reawakening as Alicia.

If you got the Act III and thought "oh well the entire game up to now was pointless" then I'm afraid you're actually just fucking stupid.

why is everyone in this game a fucking WHINEY CUNT HOLY SHIT

All of the Dessendre's are gods. Verso's ending is the ending that is best for them and worst for the canvas. In this analogy it's the pro-god and anti-mortal ending

it's bizarre how much this game overlaps xenoblade 3.

gormage is adjacent to a homecoming

when expedition members are killed they leave behind husks just like the child soldiers

life is expressed with light

the antagonists of e33 and verso have the same moral dilemma as moebius vs oroborous

the world is fake/a manipulatable higher plane of existence, but inhabited by trapped human souls that respective demiurge adjacents can pluck out and put back in the system

I know you have ADHD and have to press buttons every quarter second, but there are plenty of other genres for you. Wanting literally every game to cater to your mental illness is tranny logic.
I guess I'll stick with it and see. I'm just sick of every fight turning into rote memorization of which attacks have a random pause before the telegraphed hit or an unreactable 2nd hit

He's a perfect copy. Renoir tells him that he is Aline's greatest work.
Aline's fucked up big time.

french writers

it's more like one of the copies allied with a malevolent hostile god and killed everyone because he was a bitch

It has the opposite morals of the xenoblade series though.

just bad writing lol. there's a reason "it was just a dream" is a meme. This is subversive TLOU2 trash at best

Yea but she's like a teen. Give her a few years to learn how to paint and she can do whatever she wants. Just seems kinda silly. She can even paint another Verso. It's not like the one in that painting is the real one anyway.

everything is vague and the understanding of what happens is up to interpretive theories

How dare a story make you think for yourself and personally engage with the information presented
All stories should just shovel plot directly into your mouth so you don't have to hurt your brain by using it

I agree, would have preferred if the game played the story more straight. The first few hours I was filled with such a feeling of mystery and intrigue, felt very unique and I was dying to uncover everything
Then eh, muh family grief
I don't totally hate it, it's fine, but a bit disappointing

i prefer Greek Epos since i'm not a depressed frenchman

comparing a secondary world to "it was just a dream"

Yeah, as if I needed more proof your frontal cortex never formed.

And le family grief hasn't been done a million times?

XC3 could have easily been a 9/10 if they removed the fetch crap. It would have been the original E33 even. Just leave the important side stuff such as the Heroes side stories.

Even the level up system is similar to Pictos and Lumina, leveling the classes to make the skills available without them equipped. Also the shorter lifespans reminded me of XC3 as well. And the people of The City getting wiped out from existence just so the "real" people can resume their lifes in the real world is Verso's end. Maelle's end would be like if Alvis won on the DLC.

Mio's death hit me way harder than Gustave, but both managed to get you to bond with this character before snuffing them out.

How did Aline get back in the painting so quickly?
Because it's implied that 1 year in the painting = 1 hour in reality, or something to that effect. It was far less than a year between the Paintress fight and the final boss Renoir fight. Somehow within a couple minutes of being wrenched out of the painting, Aline uncovered where the painting was hidden and dove in again. Like a junkie or something.

this game is far more cruel than Xenoblade or Persona 5 for that matter

why does a 16 year old feel bad for getting her brother killed

Did you pop out of a test tube or did you come from the ocean?

Except that is japantrash and utterly unplayable and this is fucking kino

Just to throw in my two pennies, I adore the game. But the revelations made at the end of Act 2 absolutely diminished my interest in the campaign's resolution. While still extremely well done (in my opinion) the granduer of a mysterious world and a godlike creature being subsumed into a familial drama was always going to leave a little whiplash. Gustave and his friends still matter. That's not the issue. It's the shift of tone and focus onto Verso and Alicia's family that I think some people dislike, and I'd say that's a fair thing to be bothered by.

nigga i don't care about her motivations, i just want a cast of character who isn't entirely composed by whiny faggots

your an idiot if you think thats what the post was saying

Yeah, it goes from this really grand and amazing sense of an epic scale, to simply some families drama

all the Lumierans are chads or stacies

Gustave

Lune

Sciel

SIMON

all of Expedition 60

they're far more worthy than the D*ssendres

brown iq

I felt the same but the decision at the end gripped me again. The entire story is about dealing with loss.
Although the writing clearly took a turn at some point, because the explanations given for the initial plot contrivances were lacking. The whole "fake immortal family thing", the countdown timer being explained by "her power was weakening slowly" or something to that effect. It's not a satisfying explanation and turns the introduction into more of a gimmick.
But thematically, it does make sense, as each character is placed into a situation where they need to deal with loss

Agreed.

I think Noah being locked up on separate adjacent cells from his waifu for months knowing it ends with her getting executed right in his face is way worse than most stuff on E33.

gustave

almost an heros in the first half an hour

lune

nice feet

sciel

husbant......

simon and expedition 60

cool but ultimately irrelevant lore

and none of them mattered in the end shame

least cucked westoid
remember to vote for open borders

happy sappy ending where everyone is reborn and makes it in the new world despite it making no logical sense

worse than E33 where your choice is destroying a world or knowingly crushing a family

are you a moron?

worse than E33 where your choice is destroying a world or knowingly crushing a family

honest question, why do people love miseryporn so much

So basically
Aline is the Demiurge?

They all are.
Total Painter Death.

I don't. But if your fucking video game rests around the premise of accepting an unideal and perhaps miserable future they should have the balls to make said ending unideal unlike Xenoblade or Persona where you get everything you want regardless

I said that scene in particular.

Also XC3 wasn't a happy end, everything got reset so all the bonds and life experiences these characters had were wiped out, did you miss the ending where they desperately ran towards each other as their worlds separated? The City people all fucking died for real too, they only existed in The Endless Now.

the demiurge in gnosticism implies there's a better trascendental god and cosmos out there, and that's why you need liberation. nothing of the sort is implied here, they probably just stop "existing" and everything is gone because you were a fake piece of simulated shit all along
if painted people aren't fake, but real beings, a better comparison is that all the dessendres are gods and some are more destructive than others

E33 isn’t really misery porn. It doesn’t feel suffocating to the point of crying or getting depressed (unless you’re a woman). It’s just some spicy drama, that’s it.

It significantly lowered the stakes for me, but it didn't lose me because the new world is began to establish (this world of Writers vs Painters having some form of latent magic power) caught my interest, as did Clea. And frankly, Renoir was just that compelling to me.

The City people all fucking died for real too

it's heavily implied that they were all coming back and Future Redeemed basically solidified it. It's a nothing of an ending. I don't understand why Japan fails to nail the "muh escapism" message so bad and these frogs got it in one.

This
I don't really care about the painted world anymore beyond fond memories, but am deeply interested in what's going on with the painters.

If you die and then come back you still fucking died, that other person isn't you

Damn, I should have stopped watching Dragon Ball when Goku died, since everything after that is pointless and fake

Writers = Germans

The sequel is one big run up to fantasy WW1
Kino

All the painting drama won't give you back Elsass und Lothringen

it's heavily implied that they were all coming back

How? A person of the City being born requires the exact same parents to fuck all over again, and some of those are impossible as things are. Noah and Mio's son has parents from 2 separate worlds. It's literally impossible for the City people to exist.

and Future Redeemed basically solidified it

The fuck are you even talking about? There's none of that in Future Redeemed. The MCs sister had a plan to let the survive but she lost.

Writers - Germans

Sculptors - Italians

Engineers - British

Musicians - Russians

Dancers - Spanish

It's literally impossible for the City people to exist.

Melia confirms how the people of the city are also recorded into Origin so it's handwaved away despite how nonsensical it is. The Japs are half-assed and weak-minded unlike the chad frogs who tell you to go fuck yourself and pick your poison.

I like this one youtube.com/watch?v=0oBS10g5F3Y

Melia confirms how the people of the city are also recorded into Origin

She can cope however she wants but it's quite literally impossible for them to exist unless they randomly spawn in some other new alternate universe. The only possibility I can think is the City people being Xenoblade X.

Severalnof those parent combinations are impossible to recreate and even if they were possible, they are basically saying the new spawnes world has no free will and the same couples of the endless now will end together again regardless of choices.

......but they arent real they're in a painting what dont you understand about that

Magic doesn't mean not real. Also the "real" characters treat them as if they were real. Renoir apologizes to painting verso and tells him he's going to give him oblivion. This only makes sense if he's sentient. But it just makes it more strange because renoir is self aware he's a genocidal maniac and NOBODY talks about it, even the people who want to keep the painted beings alive. A family is playing god and all the script can talk about is the future of alicia after children get deleted

British should be the writers and engineers the germans, get your stereotypes right

Not only that, if the girl revive everyone, they will all die anyways after the girl pass away, by either Renoir or Clea.

No it's supported by verso's soul. Renoir and Clea wouldn't destroy it if neither aline or alicia needed to be kept/removed from the painting.

If you bring every Bourgeon skin on the map to the Tisseur if you spared him, he should knit you a cozy sweater outfit.

There is a difference between understanding a being is real, and acknowledging levels of realness that are different between beings, on top of his own priorities.

I would rather hold out hope Gustave can find out the truth and convince Alicia to leave rather than take the nuclear option and delete Verso and Alicia's minecraft world

That's just refusing to engage with the context the story gives you.
In other words a petty cope.

You can divest in the journals and 3 party members, it doesn't matter, the problem is the ending is moral dilemma about where a single person spends their life instead of a dead population of people that can be brought back to life.

Bro the wardrobe is just a gate to Narnia.

A soul that is being force to work by Alicia. Once Alicia dies, Renoir/Clea will come in and release the soul, destroy the canvas, and maybe bury the burnt girl.

The problem is that Renoir is dead set in destroy the canvas with Verso Soul. He knows that as long as this particular canvas exist, there nothing stopping from his wife, and now Alicia, to go in there again and cope while wasting away.

What context? It's clear that the Maelle ending represents a "back to square 1" end for Lumiere with Alicia taking the role of Aline. Except where the other Dessendres botched everythiing and ruined the canvas with their own shortsightedness I would quicker trust Gustave or Lune to learn the truth and convince Alicia to leave instead of the chronic backstabber who just wants to die.

Gustave should've lived and had to choose between Renoir and Maelle in the ending after discovering that staying in the canvas would kill Alicia. He was practically being set up to be conflicted enough to make this decision by the time we were leaving the forest. That would've had more weight than a fight between a retarded teenager running away from real life and a suicidal faggot who lies about shit that doesn't even matter and was probably faking giving a fuck about the real Alicia even at the very end of the game.
God I hate Verso so fucking much. His ending was the correct one, but his ass being forced to play the piano is a much more satisfying ending.

There is an interesting moral discussion to be made on if one values to resurrection of already dead people over a current life.
When I think about it it seems almost ghoulish.

God I hate Verso so fucking much.

This. He's a compelling character but fuck this nigger with a cactus.

he only sees destroying it as a necessity because Aline and Alicia are basically addicts

Also this plot suffers from idiot ball because they can't hide the canvas because "she'll find it again". Like really? A rich family can't hide a physical object?

The game gives you two options.
The paining ends and Alicia moves on
or
The Painting continues and Alicia rots to death
To introduce "actually these other characters can come up with a solution in the hypothetical future" without any narrative focus pointing to that, is just a cope.

Verso is 100% an amazing character but that doesn't stop him from being a piece of shit. He's a way more selfish but more well written Marche.

t Gustavefags

Alicia moves on

Moves on to suicide as hinted by Gustave.

Ah your that sctizo

secondly, she's maelle! the game presents her as a good and innocent person in every instance we see of her up until this very moment

There's actually an optional cutscene where this isn't the case, and it's massively important to understanding the ending better despite its problems, but I missed it by going to the final battle not knowing it was ending the story.

suicidal faggot who lies about shit that doesn't even matter

that's the part that really makes me dislike Verso. Every time he lies he just makes things worse and never stops to think maybe perhaps he ought to tell the truth just one time.

dad don't kill my friends and take away some time I can spend where I have two eyeballs and can talk

addict

To introduce "actually these other characters can come up with a solution in the hypothetical future" without any narrative focus pointing to that, is just a cope.

in the ending you have to ignore the existence of 5 out of the 6 members of the party you come to enjoy the presence of

if i wave at you to come over that means i want you to kill yourself

We need flags in this board NOW

I always played Gustave's theme, as a memento.

And the games does that also for the majority of act 3

I just started act 3 and most of the zones are "dangerous" and too high level. Where the fuck am i supposed to go thats appropriate and get some levels?

another thread about amerisharts and browns not understanding the delicate metaphor and wanting a dumb "kill the big evil guy for the guys at home" plot

this is why amerilards games and movies are always so shit once you are past 12

painter's workshop

I actually really liked the twist. It explains the broken nature of the world, why Maelle feels out of place but also drawn to the new life that she's made with actually positive relationships, and the painters basically being the gods of the world fighting a petty family squabble as the painting's denizens are the ones who suffer for it is an interesting conflict.

What I dislike is the final choice, and the idea that the clearly sentient people that live in the canvas don't really matter. The final outcome ends up boiling down to whether or not Maelle can face her grief, but the only way she moves on is if her family just casually commits genocide of everything and everyone that we spent the entire game fighting for. I don't really care about the world beyond the canvas because outside of a few strong scenes with Renoir, the story doesn't give me a reason to.

Do the character quests and then dick around on the floating islands till your around 60, then do the final boss.
After the final boss do the Endless Tower, Flying Manor and Renior's drafts along with any other content you want.

The Endless Tower isn't too hard at the beginning
Also the Ancient Night Sanctuary or whatever it's called isn't too hard

Also this after the character quests since I forgot

waving to come over

they're clearly waving goodbye

Clea is the opposite of character assassination. Every cutscene she's in, she's emotionally abusive. It doesn't piss me off like character assassination does but they could've made it more believable. Keep her high strung and serious but not a cinderella evil stepsister, jeeze

I did managed to beat the first 2 waves, but the 3rd one would have been a complete struggle to beat.
Thanks for the quick responses, but I'm not sure what you mean by character quests?

Talk to everyone in camp, they will give you quests tied to locations that have opened up.
Alicia is the big one.

Renoir doesn't treat them as if they aren't sentient

there is absolutely nothing to explicitly indicate whether the painted people have souls or not

Yes he does. Watch the first cutscene of act 3 when painting verso meets real renoir. His literal words is he's giving verso oblivion

You're not really wrong but your reply is to one of the few instances where Clea actually acts like a good sister and gives Alicia some decent life advice

Makes you wonder what Painted Clea was like that Clea decided to paint over.

Look for the ancient Night sanctuary on the right side of the map, it's an end game mini dungeon with a bunch of Sakapatate enemies. They're high level enough to still give good EXP but they're straightforward enemies so it's not too bad

Why does Maelle even need to stay in Verso's painting.

Her friends and gustave are there. Was this a joke?

"it was just a dream"

The problem is the game is inconsistent on it's its all just a dream or not. If you pay attention to details it's not a dream, it's a magic fantasy world. But the ending treats it like a dream alicia needs to wake up from. If you told me this game had two or more writers that had vastly different takes on the work I would believe it immediately

Asking quickly
Where to find Maelle's outfit with tights?

I think what would've been better is the family gets whats coming to them for playing god. The whole story is actually a lot like greek/roman mythos where humans are at the mercy of the god's family drama, except with this game the focus is on resolving the family drama, which I can't root for. In the greek mythos you root for humans that get a piece out of the gods.

gestral beach

Not swimsuit. I googled it and it's Gomage outfit. I need to buy Deluxe for that.

She brought back a facsimile of Verso against all his wishes and is forcing him to play the piano. She is controlling the world like a dictator and everyone serves her whim or they get reprogrammed/erased. It's no longer an independent civilization it's now basically her personal dollset

knowingly crushing a family

I don't even feel responsible for that though because it's aline's and clea's fault. Aline is estranged from everyone and clea blames alicia for what aline is doing instead of blaming aline, the adult that went into a fantasy world for 60+ years and made a copy family.

wtf does the graph supposed to signify?

No he's right. Gustave is a guiding father/brother figure who has a moral compass and maelle greatly loves and respects him. Alicia can be fixed. But with verso's ending there's no way to save the beings of the canvas.

The graph is some meme. It was from a study about how Conservatives and Liberals empathize with people around them

It's from a study that based redpilled xitter conservatives and Anon Babbleniggers love to misinterpret.

A study was done charting individual's "circles of responsibilty". The closer circles are self, family, community, nation, country....etc. And the further circles are things like, the environment, the earth, space debris, the universe itself...etc.
The study found that people with left leaning opinions preferred outer circles over inner circles (in other words, they prioritize the environment and the world over their own family). While right leaning people were the opposite, and eschew the environment or the greater universe to think of their family and community first.
It's been a recurring meme since then that "leftists care about rocks more than they care about you"

A soul that is being force to work by Alicia. Once Alicia dies, Renoir/Clea will come in and release the soul, destroy the canvas, and maybe bury the burnt girl.

That's speculation. When verso was alive, a piece of his soul was supporting the canvas. Who's the victim there? Are painters enslaving part of themselves? Is it a miserable existence or purgatory for that piece of your soul? That's not made clear at all. Verso doesn't even guilt trip alicia about the soul painting the canvas when he has the chance. Instead he just goes on about how she won't rejoin her family.

Alicia didn't ask. She interfere when Verso tries to reach out to Verso. And in Maelle ending, Alicia is completely ignoring Verso while rambling how she will make a better Verso.

Instead he just goes on about how she won't rejoin her family

He had to fake giving a fuck about her to get one last lie in rather than pointing at the obvious issue right next to him.

preferred outer circles over inner circles (in other words, they prioritize the environment and the world over their own family)

That's not the question which was asked. It isn't about prioritites, it's about the extent of what you value as important, not if one is more important than the others. Just what has intrinsic value to you.
If anything, it showed self proclaimed "conservatives" don't actually care to conserve nature or common humanity or anything except corn syrup and Israel.

No? It's the easiest trolly problem. I would bring back hundreds of dead innocent people at the expense of one life. It's not even a sacrifice because aline and alicia live long lives in the painting. So we're just talking about uniting a family over hundreds or thousands of people the father of that family killed.

It's been a recurring meme since then that "leftists care about rocks more than they care about you"

Because those retards didn't actually read the study and just fell for memes.

Yeah, Alicia will live for centuries in the canvas before supposedly dying from side effects, and people still think she’s sacrificing herself.

With how badly Aline was doing after maybe 100 years and Alicia being far less experienced, there's no way Alicia even makes it another 50.

No, It's friends vs family. Verso kills his friends, alicia chooses gustave and her friends over her real family. The fact that neither talks about genociding innocent people when it has more weight just because of the sheer number of lives is the problem.

Aline was old and not mentally stable. Also, Renoir said that Alicia has the potential to surpass even her mom, she’s a hidden star.

Even Renoir considers them the same as fully sentient people, the only reason he's willing to murder them all is to save the lives of his wife and daughter.

It gets weird when renoir is playing the part of a cruel god that kills children but all his scenes are him telling alicia to grow up and nobody says fuck you faggot

Not according to what Gustave is doing they aren't

The paining ends and Alicia moves on

To die without any pleasure in life knowing full well she committed genocide by losing to Verso.

chinks have been complaining about that a lot. Are you a chink?

Alicia did paint something like that on the monolith later on, though