Ruins gaming forever

I used to hate quest compasses but I don't much give a shit now. The biggest problem with them is it makes developers feel like they shouldn't have anything off the "Main route" of any given quest. Quest compasses aren't a bad convenience when there are other possible options if you're paying attention, but if you just want to grug the simplest way through then you've got the easy option

chooses to play the genre of games padded as much as possible to arbitrarily waste as much of the player's time as they can with grinding and crafting and other checklist chores, complete with utterly fucking meaningless Radiant Quests

Actual retard

Zoomers like can't operate without a constant GPS system though.

Calm down tranny, it's just some extra information that you're free to ignore.

We want games like Gothic not ubishit cloaca caca diarrhea padded from the rectum to the throte

you're not free though, because it's mere presence causes the design to remove the information from the world that you would need to play without it

the mere presence of information makes me lose control and do as I'm told

You're an automaton.

not really, because the second you slap in a minimap like that, the game stops being designed around having recognizable landmarks, so you have to use it anyway.
a map by itself isn't bad, but it should be an in-universe map and not handholding kind of shit

The gamer equivalent of the carrot and the stick.

go to get horn of jurgen windcaller

bitch somehow magically stole it despite it being sealed behind a door and left a note

can't go tell the greybeards it wasn't there, they have no dialogue because devs expected you to follow the marker like a dumbass

Just follow the carrot you stupid fuck don't think just do.

it infects the world and quest design and becomes an excuse for reducing information. why bother making something look unique and inviting when you can just have a copy paste floating marker that will indicate it's a POI or a quest item

Give me a reason why the ending of the story shouldn't be spoiled in small text at the top of the screen

experiencing the story yourself is completely different from reading "some dude dies at the end". It's like thinking Alien: Isolation is ruined because the game spoils the reveal of the enemy in the fucking title

the dragonborn has a built-in gps system because he can okayyy? stop asking question and consume product

It's definitely not extra and therein lies the problem.

go kill the bandits

*NEW MARKER ACTIVE*

The above is how every gps system is implemented. The quest giver does not provide any information about where to find the bandits, other NPC's are not aware the bandits exist, the world does not in any way suggest there are any bandits in it, and without following the marker there is no actual way to find the bandits outside of randomly encountering then by sheer luck dumb luck.

But you know that because you take cock in your ass.

faggotry reference

I'm not gonna read that crap. I accept your concession.

711179936

weak bait

the game expects you to use a shit system so devs don't need to fill the world with content. fast travel serves the same purpose

These anons summed it up well.

That doesn't look like dark souls.

Fallout 3 and Oblivion are actually to blame for that one. They did simplify it for zoom zooms even further, though

experiencing the story yourself is totally different from experiencing the world yourself

Yikes, swing and a miss, champ

indirect (You)

I already knew you were seething, no need to act passive aggressive about it.

No argument? Oh, ok. Cute

the game stops being designed around

not necessarily

it infects the world and quest design and becomes an excuse for reducing information.

not necessarily

Just turn it off? The game even gives you an in-lore spell that can hint you the right way if you get lost.

They can't turn it off. Normgroids are so retarded that the mere presence of information programs them into doing things, like sheep.

The note tells you where to meet her. The fucking compass has nothing to do with that quest. It's just how quest mechanics work in 99% of games, Tard.

We want games like Gothic

like you even know what that means
Gothic has not aged well at all

let me tell you what you actually meant

Schizophrenia or retardation?

Here is a better way to do it, in a way that pleases BOTH the casual and FOMO player and the explorer extraordinar:

things dont show up on compass until you discover them yourself or an NPC tells you about it

there now you still get a sense of wonder while exploring the world and you dont know what you are coming across every time. If you want more locations to show up on the compass you can ask a scout, or get the quest giver to show you it on the map.

Yes it does.

then go ahead and tell us exactly what you mean when you say 'like Gothic' as if you ever even played it
if you had, you wouldnt be saying that shit

Doesn't work for miscellaneous quests aka the majority of quests in skyrim

Didn't BOTW solve that problem?

tranny thinking patterns

You're a subhuman. I accept your concession.

Turning it off doesnt do anything. People arent actually upset over a compass. they are upset that the entire game is designed around the compass and that all the information is spoon fed to the player, and if its not spoon fed then its too obtuse because the game doesnt give actual directions like morrowind.

Its like people complaining about level scaling. Yeah that sucks, and they bring up some surface level things that come up when the entire game is designed around level scaling, like bandits in glass armor. But the problem isnt actually that there is level scaling, the problem is that the entire game including the stat system is designed around level scaling. There is too much going on in the game to give a complete talk on why X feature sucks so they just pick one or two things to gripe about, and if you cant extrapolate off of that and see how a game would need to be fundamentally changed to not do a thing and how it would be better then there isnt really much of a conversation to be had.

To actually get into how Skyrims features are terrible would take a 10 000 word essay to really explain it.

Nope.

and if its not spoon fed then its too obtuse because the game doesnt give actual directions like morrowind.

sounds like you simply want more tedium
simply ignore the in-game map and brute force search every location in the game for le sovlfvl tedious experience

Oblivion did it first and yet retards are STILL trying to force Skyrim as the culprit for this. Skyrim's popularity mindbroke you.

map markers ruined it
a compass is a good compromise so casuals dont get lost but it still doesn't feel like you have too much handholiding with no exploration

oblivions version is better too. its compact, at the bottom where your eyes gravitate, and ITS IN COLOR

not having a compass is more immersive and makes exploration a little more interesting too.
Say you see a path going up a mountain, with no compass you will be curious as to what is up there and maybe go check it out, you are actually exploring the area. with a compass you see that its just a dragon spawn spot even before going up the path. The game told you whats at the end of the mysterious trail before you even started it. The game is no longer about immersion or exploring and is about walking in between little theme park events.

Its basically the same thing as having story spoilers at the top of the screen.

Nintendo fixed this with Botw

This shit is so fucking retarded, if you really have to add toddlermode stuff like this you better go full on braindead babbymode instead and just add a fucking minimap already. Compasses just make you tunnel vision and sprint through barren mountains or into dead ends while a minimap would show you the possible proper paths and even other interesting shit you could miss.

That's not what he said, zoomeretard. Forced markers, compass and other invasive UI elements remove the need to design the game so that it can be played without relying to them. So if you turn them off, the game becomes essentially unplayable. The roadsigns can't be read and the quest directions are so vague that finding some targets becomes nigh impossible.

Fucking this. Oblivion fags can't hide from the truth.

There should be scouts in town that you pay for information, and stuff doesnt show up on your compass unless you pay a scout ie "heres 200 septims, show me the dwemer cave locations in this area" or if a quest giver sends you to an area they show on your map then its on your compass.

we've peaked with ghost of tsushima navigation, its only downhill from here

a story is just its ending, plot twists, etc.

a game's world is only worth exploring for loot

That reductionism simply doesn't apply. I've already addressed it ITT.
Calm down then write that again.

i didnt even mention loot. I didnt even imply anything about loot i was talking about locations.

"Turn it off" anons are legit retards that only ever played Skyrim.

yep, just as I expected. you had never played it before, so you don't even know what you're saying.

remove levitate

remove jump

remove vertical design

remove text because consolefags can't read

remove directions because consolefags can't problem solve

remove branching quests or decision making from quests because consolefags just want their themepark ride

sell millions upon millions of copies

killing dragons in games doesn't lead to loot

it doesn't even imply it!

You are one dumb bastard.

It's prefectly legible, you're just a retard. Stop your autoerotic aphyxiation session and read it again.

You're being too emotional, woman. Relax. It's ok. It's only text.

levitate was a meme and nothing more, and jumping was braindead. you just jumped as you walked forward like a fucking idiot. it had no reason to stick around

You're one dumb idiot if you think loot is the only reason to explore the world.

Only an issue for underage retards playing this type of garbage. No one hetero notices this

decision making from quests

i don't remember decision making quests except for maybe the commona tong/warrior guild/thief guild war. or do you mean the more than one approach to quests thing?

You are the one projecting and using reductionism to make your arguments and trying to force an argument down a path only you wanted to talk about.

I was talking about how having a compass telling you every location from miles away takes away from the immersion of exploring yourself. Loot is an entirely different topic.

levitate was a meme and nothing more

OK retard here's your (You)

Ah, so you're "merely pretending to be an idiot"? No worries, you don't need to pretend. And stop choking yourself and tugging your meat already, you sick fuck.

Morrowind fags love over complicating their dumb down garbage

And you think exploring a game's world is only about finding a dragon at x, y? You are one dumb faggot.

Notices what? Quest markers? You're saying heteros are blind? Why are you a gay supremacist?

If there's no quest marker then I'm just going to look it up online anyway. I'm not interested in getting a side quest and needing to traverse to the other side of a bloated open world map and blindly try to find what I'm looking for in a forest or cavern or rocky mountain where everything looks the same with no distinctive markers. No quest marker isn't "kino" it's just padding where they stretch something that should take 20 minutes into something that'll take an hour.

jumping across ledges

jumping across roofs

using a spell to jump like 30 meters

You sound like a soulless marketer type person who only ever wants to play a hand crafted on rails quest type game in exactly the way the developer intended, you should apply to Bethesda they would love you.

I don't respond to emotional breakdowns. I'm not your therapist

It's not really exploring if you already know what's at the end of the trail. Stop being a contrarian idiot.

Dumb down from what? Daggerfall?

Exploring is the process of discovering the game. You're equating the experience with the reward, which makes zero sense logically. You are an idiot, do you understand that? An actual moron.

zoomer cant even imagine how a game would be designed without markers

grim

Fags: "I'm sick of map markers in games!!"

Straight people: "Map markers in games? I wouldn't know, I don't play open world or modern shit."

So you have zero self-awerness, then. Because by responding you agree that every post you're so pointlessly lashing against weren't emotional breakdowns. So in the end the one breaking down was (You). Ironic.

The literal reason this is in is because minimaps are "too good" causing players to spend 99% of the game staring at the minimap, which makes artfags really mad for some reason.

From other RPGs

its funny because you are making his argument for him, then you call him an idiot.

Absolutely fuck bethesda for catering to the lowest common denominator, now we have to talk to these people when we discuss RPG games. fuck you todd

I'm telling you to calm down and write a cogent argument. Take the rest to your therapist.

levitate was a meme

why is moving around the map so tedious and slow?

Vivec is the worst designed city in rpg history!

No, it's not the reward, you dumb motherfucker. Stop projecting your shallow opinions to others. You don't discover things you know already. Even a child knows this, but clearly you never passed kindergarten.

To be fair vivec is pretty shit mechanically just because everything looks the same
t. guy who loves morrowind

Straight people play almost exclusively open world games. You're not straight, you self-hating faggot.

"his" (your) argument is about equating an experience/process with its reward. It makes absolutely no sense logically. It's like saying

I quit pissing because I know it leads to an empty bladder

The reason minimaps are gone is because it makes normies feel pressured to do the one thing they hate which is actually play the game. That's why even GTA removes all the content from the minimap so normies can just drive nowhere for hours at a time.

No, writing information down on a notepad or constantly checking an ingame journal for directions isn't better than a quick glance at the marker, you delusional fools.

A process will never be equivalent to its reward. Do you understand that?

What if the compass was a per region unlock once you found 80-90% of the shit in the area, so you could find the last of the important shit you missed but not ruin the original exploration

No one straight plays Bethesda crap

of course not, it's just more tedium

"his" (your) argument is about equating an experience/process with its reward.

No its not you turbo spastic retard.

You said it yourself

Exploring is the process of discovering the game.

And a compass telling you what is over the hill is robbing you of "discovering" that location for yourself. The game tells you way ahead of time what you are about to discover, it takes away from the mystery

NORTH? EAST? WEST? SOUTH?!

AIIEEEE YOU'RE RUINING MY SENSE OF EXPLORATION!!!

Yes, I said that. Exploring and discovering the game is more than the rewards and enemies you encounter along the way.
Why is this simple fact so difficult to understand?

the only reason a game needs a map is if 99% of the map is empty do-nothing space.

oblivion did this first

blame skyrim

yeah sure why not i like oblivion more than skyrim anyway

It's actually insane how expecting players to use navigation as a skill is one of the deadly sins of videogames now, how the fuck did this happen? Exploring is FUN

There's mods that remove quest markers/makes the journal better. Has anyone tried playing skyrim with those?

And where would you go?

The game says to go to Smugglers Cave
And since this is post voice working, that means there are no lines for that. So you can't ask for directions.
The NPC didn't say where it was either, and the journal/quest log certainly do not contain anything like that.
So either the game has to mark it on your map to spawn a quest marker, or if its a mystery. And its that what is annoying

You have the same problem with quest design and fast travel. But fast travel can at the least be worked around by doing quests in bulk, where map markers can't.

They're pretty barebones from what I've experienced
The one for oblivion covers like 10 quests total and the directions are shit

yes, it was a meme. if the world wasnt as fucking tedious, you wouldnt have players jumping across the map. the MAP should have been BETTER DESIGNED. Better fast travel, I don't mean fucking opening the map and teleporting. I mean actual in-game uses like we already have with siltstriders.

the fact thats the only points you came up with

waa but levitate was good because i can skip across the map to get to the next dopamine hit

proves my fucking point. AND it proves why you retards love immediate fast travel like in Skyrim and Elden Ring. you dont want to explore the world or take a stroll, you just want the next reward

This criticism has always been overblown. For all the zoomies out there, Morrowind's directions were MapQuest. Everyone acts like this it was some bespoke design that forced players to use their wits and problem-solving skills to figure out where they were supposed to go. It wasn't. If you want that, go play a Metroidvania. Morrowind's journal was like alt-tabbing into a browser window with a game guide open. Tedious but not difficult or engaging in any way. Additionally it punished exploration because directions were relative to the starting point so if you wandered off or did something else in the interim, you were fucked unless you remembered where you initially got the quest.