Was it Deus Ex or MGS2.
So which one had the better story and did the "predict the future" shit better?
All I know is Deus Ex is a way better game than MGS 2, and any MGS, for that matter. And I'm a fan of the MGS series.
Props to MGS for being consistent for its first 3 titles, though. Deus Ex immediately went to shit with the second.
Deus ex wins both categories.
Deus Ex better game, MGS better at prophecy
Rehashing decades old conspiracy theories vs Rehashing 80s-90s Japanese history
Neither predicted anything
Kojimbo didn't predict the future he's just good at researching current events
What MGS2 "predicts" was shit that was already in the process of happening, it's just rings more true to you because lived to see the consequences of it
Japan was ahead of us on it, too. There were considerably more people that already used mobile phones with internet in Japan than in USA at the time.
Wait, shit was happening in Japan in the 80s and 90s?
Economic Bubble Burst.
their economic bubble that persist even currently
Kojimbo didn't predict the future he's just good at researching current events
What MGS2 "predicts" was shit that was already in the process of happening, it's just rings more true to you because lived to see the consequences of it
This, also the idea that facts would be devalued due to excessive information isn't a new one
MGS2 predicted:
financial disinformation
political scandals to censor the net
AI becoming an intrevenous component of government
Social-awareness becoming more important than self-awareness
The power of the president becoming a national superpower in and of itself
What did Deus Ex predict?
More or less the same but corpo focused( cause the feds are just a fasade) that its truth irl and a global pandemic bioengineered in china
Mgs2 100%
Nobody cares about deus Ex
Damn, so Deus Ex basically predicted the entirety of Covid and the Ukraine war.
Bill Cooper predicting both of those things in 92 and knew that the engineered product would be named corona.
Well Metal Gear Solid 2 is already real so I guess that one but even though Deus Ex was a bit more advanced technology wise it sure seems like we're still on track for it.
MGS2 predicted AI, all the noise and trash created from a globally interconnected global populace, and women being nags.
Deus Ex predicted nothing. "People are employed by corporations and don't work for themselves". Yeah, no shit. People like email jobs and don't want to work for a family farm.
"Muh global outbreak and only the secret government has the cure". Nope, don't even think about bringing up COVID. That was fake and gay. Doodoosex was shit game and didn't foresee anything.
Don't forget the president creating the deepstate in his own palm. MGS2 predicted that.
Deus ex writers walked it back and said it was all just crazy stuff you weren't supposed to think was real and that you should vote for hillary.
MGS2 predicted that.
also the idea that facts would be devalued due to excessive information isn't a new one
Yeah, this feels like a pretty important part of Brave New World, a nearly 100 year old book.
By the time MGS2 released Japan already had a decade of dealing with the consequences of the internet.
Only midwit retards think MGS2 predicted anything
Read the thread. He didn't predict shit.
Bringing up obscure ideas is part of what makes conspiracy theories work.
Okay glowie
personal preferences aside for the conspiracy theories; DX was better at being undeniably uncanny with actual events that followed it, whereas MGS was better at honing in on the cultural/informational changes and how that would affect people or how they might be manipulated.
Yep. MGS2 is deep only to the same weirdos that think evangelion is deep and profound.
9/11 (twice, since the trade centers got destroyed by terrorists in game and the statue of liberty bombing was the in universe equivalent of the 9/111 attacks)
The creation of homeland security
The war on terror
Tech billionaires ruling the world
Covid 19 and the surrounding conspiracies
AI being used primarily for surveillance and disinformation
MGS2 made fewer predictions than Deus Ex, but has a higher accuracy percentage. Meanwhile Deus Ex made way more predictions about lots of little things, so it ended up getting both more right and more wrong in raw numbers.
covid 19 was the first ever pandemic
gamers are genuinely mentally retarded
Now wait until you find out that everything MGS 2 talked about had already happened too
Its specifically that it was a synthetic virus used by governments and corporations as a cassus belli to seize power and crack down on the general populace. Both it and the grey death even came from a lab in China.
Dues Ex was better at the economics of control and conspiracy.
As much as I love MGS2, it more focused on social aspects of manufacturing consent, controlling context. It approached the issues of PMC from the angle of everyone acting in good faith, a series of well intentioned philosophers all doing what they think is right with concepts of "control" and reasoning for that. The real world monetary motives people have are often downplayed for grander conspiracy, for higher ideals, because that makes for better drama, better debate. It unfortunately feeds into the distractions many already find themselves genuinely taken in by when it comes time to form a real world political opinion. Instead of making the simple logic line between billionaires and the influence a few million can buy, people would rather approach issues MGS style and let the monetary gain be besides the point when really it's clearly the only point.
The Sins Never Die.
when the only uploaders of both games are insane leftloids mad that anyone that isn't left is a chud
in games about conspiracies and finding the bigger picture
Lol lmao even
It's great to focus on the military industrial complex, recognize the value in being locked in wars. I love Senator Armstrong, but his ideals of military fascism, constant international conflict for our own good, but also his love of that violence, sidelines real world motivation for just that to make a more bombastic villain.
They don't really critique the monetary system that drives this. Sure they can mention it as a factor that enables it, but the root causes of the primary conflict come from outside that system, it comes from somewhere ideological, as many conspiracy books speak of organizations and secret societies looking to save humanity from itself.
Yeah, but MGS 1 and 3 were also based on current events yet they don't hold up as well
nukes will still be a major issue
russia and america will become friends
>nukes will still be a major issue
correct
>russia and america will become friends
MGS3 isn't about this
No one gives a shit about nukes anymore. The media was fearmongering about it when the Ukraine war started but then eventually dropped it. And the Russia and US ceasing hostilities was a major premise for the Boss's speech about globalism.
The Boss defected to Russia because of the inherent problems with romantics and ideologues maintaining influence in the American government. She truly believed the battlefield was under siege by politicians that wanted to make it routine: she was correct.
As for Russia and America becoming friends, the Philosophers Legacy contained billions of dollars in trust funds, enough to power a major continent, so it's likely they were never going to be friends.
even came from a lab in China
still can't believe this shit was snubbed so hard from even being talked about as a possibility for years only to say "yes, there's evidence it came from a lab in China."
You would be surprised how easy it is to influence and socially manipulate people, especially when you abuse authority.
People generally always obey authority , if you want to go down a rabbit hole read up on this
en.m.wikipedia.org
One of the few social psychology experiments that's been replicated so many times it's essentially just a given fact that social influence from authority works in the vast majority of cases. If a government wants to sell people lies, it does so without even having to try and people will obey even if they think it's wrong, they will be shaking and crying before they stop obeying commands - if they even bother to question authority at all. People always like to pretend that cults and radicals are always filled with idiots, but the reality is that most people are very emotionally and socially vulnerable to social engineering of all kind. Urgency, authority, likeability, reciprocity, and the extreme tendency almost all people have to double down on their choices when initially made even if provided contrary evidence.
I've been training to be a pentester and holy shit is social engineering more effective than I ever thought it was. It's legit terrifying even
It's more of the "we have reason to believe" and "possibility" semantics. Not a complete confirm. It's convenient there because holding China accountable would eat up time and resources while they deny deny and deny and we need to talk about our own biolabs. These labs aren't engineering bioweapons, they have strains that are unusual to test samples and help produce vaccines if there was any outbreak in any part of the world.
the media was fear mongering
Not really. It's fine to discuss the possibility and countermeasures, but it was mostly the right in general, media or not, pushing against support for Ukraine because of fear of nukes. The argument became "Russia has nukes, let them do what they want" and then branding themselves the peace party.
If kojomas so smart why didn't he predict the plummeting birth rates, over tourism ruining his own country, or the invasion of poo people?
These labs aren't engineering bioweapons
That we know of. It's not like we haven't made bioweapons before and if you're stupid enough to believe modern states act in good faith then I don't know what to tell you
It's the only way to have a global monitoring and treatment center.
The argument became "Russia has nukes, let them do what they want"
Do you have a quote? I don't remember anyone saying that.
No one is the first world cared or though that things would ever get like this, much less in Japan. I only know of one person that saw the birth rate problem and immigration problem happening (at least in the U.S.) and he was called a crazy Nazi.
Neither correctly predicted USA destroying themselves with their own stupidity
MGS2 predicted women being nags
MGS2 and eva are deep and profound
or the invasion of poo people?
Nobody predicted the saar invasion let along H1B
That's because it's more economic and it's boring to focus on that more real aspect of these issues. Not only is it not as cool, it's also awkward to suggest regulatory policy. American will tell you all day the issue is money in politics and then will turn around and oppose every effort to get money out of politics because we've been trained to love free market neoliberalism. It won't he Cold War, right? We have big government, we think we're over regulated and identify more with billionaires than elected officials and their experts. We trust billionaires more than the people we elect.
The reason Raiden is an incel is because women avoided him like the plague.
Bullshit, women love mass murderers
Raiden is volcel and hes literally me
His girlfriend is government mandated.
how do i get into mgs2/3, the controls are filtering me
Neither of these games predicted anything. Especially MGS2 with its ridiculous premise that AI would be the solution to junk information online when it fact it has became the main cause of it.
I thought to them "junk info" was info that just wasn't useful to their ends. It's not so much that it's not true, it's junk in that it interferes. They still talked about online communities and info spaces curating content for a politically and ideologically atomized population.
MGS2 was saying the opposite though? It's saying that AI would be the cause of misformation and deceit, not that it would be truthful
Only thing MGS2 got is the Tanker and Arsenal Gear section
No, it was saying that AI is needed to get rid of the garbage online. Like an evolutionary selection process for memes, or something like that.
But the memes it selects are them controlling context, meaning that if it's better to flood our national conversation with bullshit memes, they aren't junk, they're more useful than the memes that would lead to more conflict.
Is this even a question?
MGS2's narrative can be taken on its own without any understanding of the political context surrounding it and it would not only make sense, but it would also be a pretty kickass story. All of the subject matter is treated appropriately, even if the game gets slightly too anime at times (it's Japanese).
Deus Ex's story has the subtlety of a brick. Dialogue looks like this where they just dump a Anon Babble infographic in the middle of speech. The whole narrative is embedded with conspiracy tropes because Spector's wife loved X-Files. None of the characters are all that interesting or relevant to the plot. The ending is one big asspull.
MGS2's twists have narrative impact. They have drama.
Deus Ex's twists are predictable and don't matter much.
Nothing in DX matches the writing of MGS2. The legacy of MGS2 is also far greater as it predicted the digital age far more accurately than DX, which is more caught up in corporate intrigue of the time, something that feels dated now.
politicians are evil, war is bad
Woah, Kojimbo is a genius with his takes.
spend a few minutes messing around in a safe spot
okay, I've got it now
Its because pseuds think the whole thing was about the AI itself when it was just about the bubbles people form on the internet when confronted with conflicting information.
The AI is hammering at the player in the situation, making him feel like a retarded child that needs hand holding but in reality the AI might be right in many or all of its accusations of human beings being inconsistent, its just that the solution to all the shit is batshit insane haha
Its pretty typical MGS bad guy motivation, they tell you of a problem they want to solve but the method they want to use is extremely dangerous and destructive and even if you agree with him, the player character is forced to go against them because the main character is blackmailed and the villain wants you dead
Its pretty interesting dialogue regardless from a fairly successful game, i think it pretty masterfully manipulates the player to feel small through its accusations, few games would really dare to pretty much call the player a stupid child directly
It also doesnt just handwave all the shit the AI says as wrong, you are left to think about all the shit by yourself
Also junk "information" online could be thought as shit like TikTok, not just actual trash AI would flood the internet with
It would have been truly mindblowing if Kojima would have predicted that one
cyberpunk 2077
Geoff, is that you?
It's more like the benevolence of the MGS AI is conditioning us to exercise and eat well, but also locks us in meaningless endless conflict because the controlled burn of human suffering though PMC proxy war is to prevent nuclear war. It's like how in Watchmen, sure it's an alternate timeline, but we the Cold War ends (though nothing ever ends lol) so "killing millions to save billions" isn't really true. Nuclear war anxieties are valid, but drastic action, all the hypothetical things villains can do to "save us", have proven to be pointless.
The hope is that we're proving the AI wrong, proving we don't need them. Or maybe this is the controlled burn, in true postmodern fashion.
no its not, MGS2 is really well fleshed out. Deus Ex might give you a sandbox environment with lots of ways to let you approach the game but it lacks the same MGS2 polish.
PC games used to value ambition and experimentation even if it came with some rough edges.
Polish is overrated also mgs2 is limited by console trash. Rather play a game that respects my intelligence then make me sit and watch cutscenes
deus ex definitely wins in the ost and meme category tho
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Man, thats a pretty tough battle
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