The final, ultimate blackpill is that very few of the 3D Sonic games are genuinely bad...

The final, ultimate blackpill is that Sonic doesn't have a single good thing attached to its name.

Its fans are fat trannies and furfag s𐐬yllenials, the games have always been mediocre dogshit, and most of the OSTs were plagarised.

This isn't a black pill, this is just the truth. Most 3D Sonic games aren’t actually bad, they just filter the everliving shit out of normalfags. The moment they can’t autopilot their way through a stage, they short-circuit and start crying about “slippery controls” or “bad design” instead of realizing they just suck.

Heroes and Unleashed are the biggest victims of this. Heroes controls exactly how it’s supposed to, fast, momentum-driven, skill-rewarding, yet you have retards complaining that it's slippery, which is a BLATANT lie and a cope. Same with Unleashed, the werehog is actually a solid, deliberate combat platformer, but the second you have to press more than two buttons and learn timing, the mouthbreathers start seething. “Waaah this isn’t Sonic!”

The core issue is modern players are so used to brain-dead, cinematic, hand-holdy trash that they have no clue how to handle a game that demands spatial awareness and reflexes. Sonic’s always been about speed and precision, the 3D games kept that spirit, and people couldn’t cope. They aren’t bad, you’re just bad.

Most of the time it's not so much being outright bad as being mediocre.

But kirby games are praised as masterpieces despite the entire franchise being the embodiment of mediocrity????

deliberate combat platformer,

this isnt sonic

and thats the problem.

They are arcade style experiences designed to reward skill, which is alien to many modern players raised on cinematic hand-holding, and you have to engage with them on that level.

People hate sonic games for 1 reason
They allow you to be dogshit at them.
If you fuck up, you'll die and go back.
The game expects you to actually learn how to play and pay attention before you can auto pilot.
Thats literally it.

heroes's controls are a distinct step down from adventure 1&2's. you're either blind or disingenuous to not recognize that.

You're the disingenuous and blind one, evident by your low effort knee jerk response

Heroes controls just fine, it isn't a step down from Adventure 1 or 2. You are a dumb mentally ill retard with trash taste. Just admit you suck and blame yourself instead of blaming the game you over grown, fat ass whiny man child

its been analyzed and documented. it is a distinct step down.
also heroes suffers from a lot more than just controls (partly due to being multiplatform release). your vitriol seems to indicate a lot of personal feelings on the matter, which i assume are getting in the way of honest and objective thought.

brochacho, Sonic Adventure 2 is actually really good if you just keep playing to where you memorize everything and get used to the dogshit pop in

notice how the only people that like most of these games grew up with it. when it comes to vidya, children have the patience (and usually not other games to play) to grow accustomed to poorly made garbage. then when they grow up they only remember when they got good and forget how frustrating it was to get there.
I think it's also very telling that so many fags in this thread refuse to actually provide an argument beyond "you're bad if you don't like it," which is very typical among those with autism
tl;dr Sonic can only be enjoyed via retarded nostalgia

this post is laughably dumb. “Analyzed and documented” by who exactly? YouTubers and journos that couldn’t even clear Casino Park without falling off 50 times? The only true thing you said is that Heroes controls differently from Adventure 1 and 2 and that’s not inherently bad, it’s just different. Once you actually learn how it works, the controls are consistent and responsive.

If anything, you’re the one letting personal bias cloud your thinking. You’re more invested in parroting the same tired, surface-level takes that low IQ mouth breathers have been spouting about Heroes instead of actual truthful discussion. quite sad really. you might actually be an NPC

Tell us what video games you think are good so we can all laugh at you, you dumb mentally ill autistic retard

exactly this. if sa2 came out today and i hadnt played it before, i honestly wouldnt even bother picking it up because of how many non-speed stages there are (on top of how many reports of it being a buggy/janky mess). i want a SONIC game, not that other shit (honestly treasure hunting isnt awful, after having played it, but still). the same reason i didnt buy unleashed. the same reason i didnt buy boom or forces.
however, if it did get a remaster, i absolutely would buy it, because i remember it fondly DESPITE the jank.

Sonic can only be enjoyed via retarded nostalgia

Same could be said of chrono trigger, kirby, shmups and fighting games

Heroes controls differently from Adventure 1 and 2 and that’s not inherently bad, it’s just different.

in a notably bad way

the controls are consistent

that doesnt make them good or not worse than previous games.

its pretty noticeable, especially when going from one game to the other. people have broken down the specifics in comparison too, if you'd care to actually educate yourself. however, its clear that any manner of content on youtube counts as "parroting" and "npc behavior" to you, because you're a narcissistic autist that cant handle any criticism to his precious sonic franchise.

I mostly agree but Shadow's slippery controls and nonsense structure to get the Final Ending, Lost World's horribly paced levels that actually utilize the new mobility 10% of the time, and Forces coming across as a WIP they had to ship on just about every front don't get a pass. Based for understanding that Black Knight actually has merit mechanically though.

Unleashed & Generations are about even on Boost gameplay and sountrack but Unleashed wins out on presentation outside of stages and its secondary gameplay having more to it; Generations has much smoother pacing which is why people hate Werehog (you need to upgrade it a decent amount before you have enough moves to feel comfortable) but Werehog with all moves is a little more fun than Classic in Generations.

Kirby is a baby game for babies but it's unpretentious and at least the transformations are kinda neat and change up gameplay. It's also very polished with no weird jank.
Sonic claims to be a great platformer, but is janky, awkward, and boring. The gimmicks fall flat compared to those in kirby.

I was really on point with that autism claim
Anyway, I'm more of a 2d platformer guy myself, here are some highlights from recent memory

Hollow Knight

Mario Wonder

Mario World

Spelunky 2

Cuphead

Pizza Tower (mogs 2d Sonic lol)

And if you really want 3d platformers, there's

Mario Odyssey

Pseudoregalia

The Big Catch

Jet Set Radio (Sega can make good games sometimes)

Thinking about Sonic in the year of 2025

unpretentious

Says this while the games have some tryhard ass dark souls esque "deep" lore

transformations are kinda neat and change up gameplay.

Yeah nos instead of pressing b to suck and again to spit i can kill enemies just pressing it once.
Megaman, yoshi and even mischief makers did it better btw

Spelunky 2

man, i WANT to like spelunky, and this IS a skill issue, but i hate how its either too slow or too fast for me. i can still recognize that its a good and cool game though. good list though (except pizza tower looked stupid to me).

Starts of with Hollow Knight

Lmao, the "platforming" in hollow knight is a joke nigger.

Cuphead

Jokes write themselves

Pizza tower is sonic meme

Pizza tower is literally Wario Land Shake It! but faster. A good game, but sonic 3&K shits on it.

kirby has deep lore

lmao kill yourself.

unpretentious

in terms of gameplay, not story (who cares about story in games?).
It presents as a mid platformer for babies, and that's exactly what it is.
Of course mega man is better.

Mario Wonder & World

Could atleast have mentioned the good mario games like Dk94, Sunshine or Rayman and DKC

they aren't bad but a lot of them are pretty mediocre and get by on nostalgia and brand recognition and it'd be a lie to pretend otherwise

So why are you trying to defend these dogshit games and acting like they arent just plain mediocre slop?

Inb4 I am not trying to defend them BUT

retard takes e celeb opinions as gospel

you’re not even arguing in good faith at this point, you’re just a genuinely braindead idiot screeching “it’s bad!” with nothing to back it up. you clearly didn’t understand how Heroes plays, couldn’t adapt, and now you’re throwing a fit because someone called out your lack of skill. all you’ve got is secondhand whining from e-celebs you treat like prophets, as if their surface-level bitching counts as objective truth.

you don’t have an argument, you have a tantrum and a playlist of regurgitated takes from content creators spoon-feeding you opinions because you’re too mentally inert to form your own. I really don’t care if you personally hate the game or sonic in general. I'm calling you out for being a pseudo intellectual retard for thinking that your youtube binge makes you an expert. you are a pathetic drone with no critical thought, blindly worshipping e-celeb opinions like they’re scripture.

bad

Forces and 06

mid

Heroes and Lost World

good

Everything else since Adventure to Frontiers

OP is right.

2 of the 10 games you picked are bad niggerino!!!

except I can only give a very specific criticism of one of them

Spelunky is kinda similar to Sonic in that it takes a lotta learning to fully enjoy it, but the random level generation keeps it from getting too tiresome quickly
Also helps that the things you learn are interesting like enemy behaviours and not just "turn here or you die faggot"

i wasnt defending kirby, i was just calling you a retard for claiming it has deep lore.

however, of the few kirby games that i have played, they at least play properly and have good design to them. you pretty much get exactly what you'd expect out of it.

I enjoyed both Wonder and World, but I will agree with you on DK94 being a banger game and I'm actually surprised I forgot to put Rayman on there

kirby's not dogshit. It's mid, which makes it better than sonic games, which are sub-par to bad. What's wrong with that? Are you lightswitch brained and everything has to be great or shit?

This, and I like Heroes.

This brain dead autistic retard thinks cuphead, spelunky 2 and pizza tower is good yet turns his nose up at 3d Sonic

I'm crying of laughter.

kirby's not dogshit. It's mid, which makes it better than sonic games

The worst thing a videogame can be is mediocre.
A good game has a lot going on, a bad game could be so shitty its hilarious.
A bland mediocre piece of shit is just forgettable dogshit.
Like 90% of kirby games except dl3 and Dream Course.
Dont even get me started on the fact kirby fans have been eating RtD rehashes 5 times back to back and praising them

Sonic has games rangin from 3/10 to 10/10
Kirby just has 5/10s.
What is better?

10/10

name them? This thread was about 3D sanic. Don't remember any of those being above 6/10

e-celeb opinions

what celeb? what opinion? you can find videos literally breaking down the mechanics and comparing them. you're the one that is arguing from a preconceived bias, unwilling to even entertain the possibility that he's wrong, despite literally not having both sides of information. instead, you've dismissed the mere possibility of anything negative of your precious franchise. your willful ignorance speaks volumes. the only one parroting things is you, with how you dismiss things with such buzzphrases as "e-celeb opinions", and completely disregard the part where i did form my opinion by actually playing the games and jumping between them to actually check and confirm things for myself. just because analysis exists, doesnt mean anyone that shares the conclusion is "parroting". your blind zealotry is on par with oot fags.

That's what I've been saying for years. Sonic Adventure is very smooth and fun to play, and only retards think it's an unplayable mess. Boost Sonic is a mistake.

This thread was about 3D sanic

Trying to backpedal now acting like we are just talking about 3d when dogshit kirby only has 1 3d game and its a 5/10

1 (retro standards, easy 9/10
3&K (easy 10/10)
SA1 (easy 10/10)
SA2 (face it) (story is 10/10, gameplay is worse than sa1)
Unleashed (time to admit it)
Mania (literally 3&k 2)
Generations (All the good of unleashed)
Frontiers (mogs forgotten slop)

yea bro 3 games you listed were mid you're retarded

continues to provide no explanation as to what supposedly makes them shit

doesn't even bother mentioning Mario, who Sega still wants Sonic to compete with

lmao

SA1 (easy 10/10)

big's section alone is at LEAST a one point deduction. and it has other problems

SA2 gameplay worse than SA1

retard.

unleashed

pants of head retarded

mania

over 50% copy pasted, some shitty bosses, sonic can fall off the plane, catch the ufo is cancer

Sonic Adventure 2 is one of the greatest games ever made.

Correct take even if I wouldn't put Heroes on the same level as Lost World.

over 50% copy pasted, some shitty bosses

Works for fromsoft and kirby tho?

The sonic franchise is literally only good for one thing, and that's porn

but enough about pokemon

Yeah same, Lost World is worst than shit

asset/mechanic copy is not the same thing as the actual level copy. "same game but more/new" is not the same thing as "same game... again."

But enough about Resident Evil

Sonic X Shadow was the best game of 2024
You have to be retarded to think otherwise.

Besides that racing game coming soon. What's next for the blue blur?

Adventure is fun
Adventure 2 is fun
Heroes is bad
Shadow is bad
06 is bad
Secret Rings is bad
Black Knight is bad
Unleashed is mediocre but fun
Colors is mediocre but decent
Generations is good
Lost World is bad
Boom is bad
Forces is bad
Frontiers is mediocre but decent
Dream Team is fun

Oh yeah I forgot about Shadow Gens
It was fun too.

T R V K E

i agree with everything except unleashed.

you're actually brain-dead. you've spent this entire time referencing "analysis" and "videos", all clearly from the same echo chamber of e-celebs and content creators you worship, then you turn around and screech “wHaT e-CeLeBs?! wHaT oPiNiOnS?!” like you didn’t just out yourself five times over. you haven’t brought a single objective point to the table, just vague hand-waving about how there’s “analysis out there,” which you conveniently never cite because you don’t actually understand or remember any of it, you just parrot it.

everything you're accusing me of is pure projection. you're the one so deep in your delusional bias that you think watching someone else's opinion counts as critical thinking. meanwhile, I’ve actually played Heroes, 100%'d it, and been part of this discourse for years. I know exactly what I’m talking about. you’re just regurgitating surface-level takes and pretending that echoing them makes you informed or right. you're neither, and you are truly a mentally ill idiot.

you're not debating, you're strawmanning, making baseless assumptions, and coping. you’ve built your entire "argument" on secondhand info which is laughable, you’re nothing but a low-IQ drone with no original thought.

It is rather divisive, but I agree that Dream Team is pretty good. Sure, Superstar Saga and BIS are better, but this is comparing 10/10s to an 8 here.
The rest of the games here are pretty mid tho.

same game but more/new" is not the same thing as "same game... again."

So 85% of manua is good whereas 60% of fromsoft is good and like 40 of kirby is good?

bro, i literally dont even remember who made the video i watched. like, it was literally a no-name person, just a video on the topic, and it was years ago. i dont give a fuck about your jihad against "e-celebs" and "echo chambers". the only confirmed echo chamber here is your skull refusing facts. try looking it up. im not going to do it for you. you're the one spewing endless laughable ad-homs because your precious franchise got insulted. you are incapable of formulating actual argument. you have Anon Babble brainrot and can only repeat "PARROT! E-CELEBS!". just because you stockholmed yourself due to autism, doesnt mean that heroes isnt hot garbage.

you're not debating, you're strawmanning, making baseless assumptions, and coping

thats like the pot calling the kettle a nigger. look in the mirror, dude, lol. you still make the claim of "secondhand info" while dismissing that i HAVE played it extensively. "you're bad, just git gud" is not an argument in favor of quality. any tranny can "git gud" at any shitty game and speedrun it. that doesnt mean that the game is well made. you're arguing in bad faith and ignorance, on top of obviously VERY personal emotions. seriously, you're no different than oot zealots.

Damn my IQ big because I argue like woman

Yeah these kirby fags are unbelievable

We've still yet to hear about that rumored Heroes remake
And Frontiers 2

I am right about everything

you’ve officially gone full meltdown mode, you brain dead autist. At this point, you’re just flailing, copying half my phrasing, and projecting so hard it’s basically a confession. You’re out here repeating me, “parroting,” “projection,” “strawmanning,” “laughable”, like a toddler mimicking an adult, hoping it makes you sound smart. You're not arguing, you're just regurgitating me now.

And your defense? “I saw a random no-name video years ago and I don’t remember who made it, but just look it up yourself, bro!” Are you actually serious? That’s your trump card? That’s not an argument, that’s brain damage. You’re trying to win a debate on a game’s mechanics by referencing some blurry-ass memory of a half-baked YouTube rant and acting like that’s irrefutable proof. You are so mind numbingly retarded and autistic. You are objectively stupid. You are a true dumb fuck.

There’s no "jihad" against e-celebs coming from me, I’m just pointing out how pathetic it is that your entire position boils down to vague, unsupported parroting from some content you half-remember, while still insisting it somehow makes you objectively right. You’ve got a log of shit wedged in your skull where your brain should be.

You keep projecting about being "emotional", yet you’re the one seething so hard you’re doing ad hominems, having an actual melt down, and ranting about “autism” and “stockholm syndrome” like that magically wins the argument. I don’t give a single shit whether you like Heroes or not. what I do care about is watching a blubbering, low-IQ moron like you try to parade around as informed while your entire case is built on arrogance, projection, and a embarassing attempt at appeal to authority fallacy. I will bully you into submission and make you ashamed to ever speak on the internet again

You’re not smart. You’re not right. You’re just loud and wrong.

im actually crying of laughter, this brain dead autistic thats throwing a tantrum and having a mental breakdown thinks that some random no name video he saw years ago that he cant even link makes him right

hahahaha this idiot is so mind numbingly stupid hahahaha this idiot is ltierally autsitic, mentally ill and brain dead. it should be illegal to be this stupid hahahahaha

I can't bro, how is this idiot THIS stupid?

I like some of these games but 100% them is insanely miserable

I've run out of arguments, time to reply to no one in particular about how autistic they are and type out laughter to show how not mad I am

Sorry the franchise you grew up with doesn't hold up all too well dude
If it's any consolation, I actually thought SA1 was pretty good (and by that I mean I liked Sonic's campaign (which was a 7 at best)). Jokes aside, I cannot deny that SA1 was kino, which actually leads me to another positive of the series in general: the presentation is pretty great. Visually, both Adventure games look incredible for their time, and as shoddy as it is, it's impressive that they had full voice acting for both games.

SRB2

Black Knight and Forces are also legit bad games.

What's wrong with Sonic Forces? I thought it was okay and kinda fun

Man, if you cant see that the level design is just awful compared to Unleashed and Generations you might be blind.

I’ve had a consistent argument the entire time. i laid out my position, backed it with actual experience, and called out the lazy, surface-level takes people have been parroting for years. you, on the other hand, are sitting on the absolutely deranged position of “i saw a random no-name video years ago and i don’t remember who made it, but just look it up yourself, bro” that is ridiculously retarded. you are truly such a dumb fucking retarded nigger I've been laughing at this for 5 minutes straight.

you’re a mentally unwell clown who thinks being loud and confidently wrong is the same thing as being right. it isn’t. you haven’t refuted a single point, you’ve just screeched in circles, repeated my phrasing, and played the same broken record of “heroes bad” without saying anything of value. you’re not debating. you’re coping. And I'm here to bully you into submission until you are ashamed to speak your shitty opinions ever again.

But Unleashed had the werewolf levels which were just a shitty action game. I think Sonic Forces was more fun than that

I forgot to mention but I was NTA. I'm this twat here:
Just saw you sperging out and felt bad.

These posts read like they're written by AI.

Is this a continuation of that

2D genesis Sonic is frustrating

Thread from yesterday?

NTA but AI wouldn't say "retard" or "nigger". nor would AI use toxic language like that

Ah you're the retard with the laughably bad taste. makes sense that a sperging retard would side with the other sperging retard. You both are wrong. I am better than you in every conceivable way.

I'm not letting that retard forget this or live this down. The deranged position of “i saw a random no-name video years ago and i don’t remember who made it, but just look it up yourself, bro” is so ridiculously retarded and laughable LOOOOOOL

Golden Age 2D platformer goes 3D

Air dash with homming properties is absolute necessary because of bad physics and controls

Back in the 90s, my parents couldn't afford a SNES so i got genesis and played lots of Sonic instead. When I got my hand on a N64, 3D platformers where not my top priority, so it was not before playing Sonic Adventure at a friend's house that played Mario 64.

The difference between 3D Mario and 3D Sonic is as big as day and night. Mario 64 is the gold standard for 3D platformers, Sonic Adventure onwards are just a bunch of pseudo-platformers.

Sonic 06 is so fucked up that enemies take no damage from normal jump. It is Sonic who takes damage instead.

youtube.com/watch?v=dsAecACiE5g

Shadow Gens was alright, would've liked a longer game not attached to a "remaster".

Have you not seen how fast AI models that feed off of public input become racist?

I still don't get the complaints over Big. His story takes like half an hour. It's not super engaging but it's not really wasting my time either.

I can't defend my own game so I'll just call other games bad instead!

Assuming you were in fact that Anon, I really don't know what to tell you. I gave you my arguments, and spoke my piece.
I wasn't even necessarily agreeing with the other guy, I was poking fun at your mental breakdown. Of course, I shouldn't be surprised that a Sonic Adventure 2 fan isn't capable of thinking beyond the likes black and white.

fishing mechanics are clunky and confusing

Surprised Sega Bass Fishing was as good as it was after playing that shit

make friend that wants to talk about sonic

oh nice i have someone to talk about the games with now-

initiate conversation

all they do is talk about shipping sonic and shadow, show their gay drawings of them, and show me their oc thats a spawn from shadow

also asks me how would shadow react to having babies (as a father)

try to talk about any of the games

"uhhh actually i never played them i just watched someone else play it"

Did I go back fucking 20 years? How do these people still exist unironically?

Sounds like a Fujo, you should've married her

Farces still sucks nigger dick.

He is right but the reasoning behind it, that being that Sony fucked them over demanding the game be made to fit the PS2 requiring a total engine change at the last minute was the cause of that. It actually would've controlled like SA1 and SA2 if they didn't need to rush.

notice how the only people that like most of these games grew up with it. when it comes to vidya, children have the patience (and usually not other games to play) to grow accustomed to poorly made garbage

Yeah I have, you described Bethesda and Rockstar perfectly with that statement

I suppose it was a quote that could be applied to many things
perhaps I should become a vidya commentary YouTuber