Why is there allowed to be good Drow but good Mindflayers are too far?

They do nasty things with their tentacles to little kids. Why do you want to play as one of they/them?

im totally not evil wink wink

woooooah i was evil the whole time!!!

what the fuck dude just because im evil you're killing me??? i thought we were friends

i did not think this game was very good

I had to explain to a friend of mine that the "good" mindflayer you meed underground is not good at all and a creature that eats humanoids brains for survival is antithetical to the existence of humanoids in general, regardless of whom is the humanoid they eat from.

"But he is freed from the big mind thing"

he sill eats brains

"but only from evil people"

Evil defined by whom? Him? A being without a soul and hungry for brains? His association? Who will gladly brand any opponent as "evil"?
After that he understood it, but it's insane I had to explain it.

Is it brains of humanoid only? Could munch a cow brain, too. Cauliflower, hipster illithid only.

As far as I rembember, yes.
Besides, they need humanoids to reproduce.
So the same reasoning for the Alien applies, you don't want them to live, no matter what.
I didn't even enter the Drow territory and explaining why they are bad cause I know he has a fetish for them, he knows they are bad in general, but doesn't really understand that they should be exterminated on sight.

Drow are people.
Ilithids are not.

hurr why is a race that assimilates others races evil!

I think it's the sign of innocence to try to find the good in everything

Literally the embodiment of all that is evil. A good mindflayer is a dead mindflayer.

There shouldn't be good Drow either.

KILL ALL MINDFLAYERS

Hard to find a pro ablut a fictional species that's designed to be absolute evil.
I'm always buffed when thinking about bg3. It was swens life long dream, they worked like 2 years on the story before preproduction began and yet they rewrote it minutes before release.

There's a good mindflayer in the Underdark. The Emperor is about neutral/doing good through self-interest, and your character if you transform can be good too.

they all need to go

the tourists that took over the hobby heard drow means dark elf so they said its racist for they to be evil because dark = black = african

larian doesn't care for any of their games past act 1 because that's the one they leave on open beta for years and that's what people buy it for, they did the same for d:os2

Why is there allowed to be good Drow but good Mindflayers are too far?

Let me guess, next you're going to argue why are there no good AIDS or plagues? Why is it so hard for retards to understand that some things are just plain bad?

don't have comprehensible emotions, don't have souls

they're inherently parasitic and expansionist

You can say the same thing about people at 'Wizards of da Coast' as well.

You met a good mindflayer in the underdark though

LOL you are hilarious.

wow this mindflayer i met for 5 minutes seemed good

The Emperor also seems good untill his mask falls off.

Eh I can forgive making up a new subrace if that's what they needed for the story they were telling, what I can forgive less is I'm pretty sure before they updated the rules to match the movie speak with dead was a bard and cleric spell not a wizard one, why give it to the wizard instead of the bard.

Just feed him gith, they're evil.

Thaqualm is an extraordinary redeemed villain: a mind flayer who has joined the cause of good. Living deep underground on the outskirts of a mind flayer city, Thaqualm was a victim of a small-scale slave rebellion: Her duergar thralls broke free of her mental control and forced her into three years of wretched servitude, her mental powers suppressed and her body at the verge of starvation. Finally, she was liberated by an adventuring party from the surface who killed her duergar masters but spared the pathetic illithid, showing her kindness unlike anything she had ever experienced before. Eventually, she joined the adventurers and traveled with them for two years. She joined a monastic order, and has now retired to a life of contemplation. She has sworn a vow of nonviolence and works hard to redeem any evil humanoids she may encounter, hoping to set them on the same course that has proven so rewarding for her.

-Book of Exalted Deeds.

The Emperor is textbook Neutral Evil though. He's just not retarded.

The alignment graph only applies to entities with souls. Illithids don't have souls just like how aboleths don't have souls (Elder brains are just evolved aboleths from the future that time traveled back creating a fucked up time paradox and illithids are their proxy-like automatons in their gestalt psychic network)
Mindflayers cannot be good or evil, they're literally aliens from a different reality.

Because Drizzt is based, and Omeluum is a fucking nerd.

Omeluum seems good enough

t.

Only dullards and pseuds think in shades of grey, that's how they press their advantage when they can't win through force.

Why can't larian make a game about mindflayers with actually evil mindflayers?

Comparing Drow and Mindflayers

Shouldn't comparing Vampires and Mindflayers be more accurate as they are bound by hunger more than any sort of sapient thought.

The Emperor also seems good

You really are a retard

I didn't finish the game but there was a good mindflayer in the caves. Are you talking about him? Does he turn out to be bad?

I'm sure you support the genocide going on right now because neither side is morally grey.

das racis

Stop with the antisemitism.

The problem isn't pure evil races are bad but too many of DnD enemies are generically pure evil out of half assed reason to give DM's something they can give their parties to fight without real thought. And it's just kinda lame cause 90% of it is basically just

Believe or controlled by evil God

Have slaves

Kill people

And that's it. You have the Drow, Orcs, Goblinoids, Gnolls and so on. A lot of them should have better development.

But some isn't all. Mindflayers being these alien creatures that fundamentally have foreign predetor esc. brains and mindset works. And then you have Beholder's which is probably their perfect pure evil race/monster of deranged autists that hate everything. The problem isn't "pure evil bad" but "bad writing bad, variety good".

Gnomes have a chance to keep their mind intact after turning squid. No idea why but there you go

its liberal writing at is worse to make something pure evil le actually good

Let's say you made a sentient automaton that's got free will to do whatever it chooses, and it decides to be a nice fella and even saves a few kittens from tall trees, helps some grandmas cross the road, etc.
Saying "u hav no soul" and killing it would be retarded, no?

Granted it's a bit different since mind flayers literally need to kill to survive on top of getting brain boners from dominating things, but not having a soul≠inherently evil. That's not to say that most mind flayers AREN'T evil mind you, most of them absolutely are. But the evil ones typically feel no desire to leave the hive mind in the first place, so you get a disproportionate number of "good guy" illithids that are free simply because the evil ones usually don't see any reason to try to break out of a hive mind that suits their desires perfectly already anyways.

Omeluum gives you a ring that lets you resist the Elder Brain

nothing happens to Omeluum if you accept it

this never comes up again from either angle, the ring has no effect on the story

I love BG3 but there's so much shit like this. Blatantly vestigial elements from previous drafts of the story that the devs didn't give enough of a shit about to fix.

I understand Mindflyer but why cant drow be good?

Magic bullshit.
They are made as the elf equivilent to Halflings/Hobbits.

No one's beneath redemption.
Jesus saves, remember that anon. I'll pray that you deliver the devil from your heart and mind.

Drow women would lose all of their flavor if they stopped being evil bitches being gaslit by Lolth.

why can there be (supposed to be rare) good varation of an evil playable race vs an evil monster race that are intended to be BBEGs for players to fight

gee I wonder why. fucksake next we are gonna get "Good" beholders and liches.

The answer to this question in every evil race in DnD is

Their God/Creator is a cunt

fucksake next we are gonna get "Good" beholders and liches.

nobody tell him about baelnorns

Jesus is a cuck

because mindflayers literally consume your soul. there is no afterlife for those consumed. it's just over, permanently. that's pretty fucked

The Emperor isn't evil, he's just a bit of a cunt.
He's pretty much the definition of True Neutral, with his obsession being

Stay alive

Be free

In that order.

Really the shittiest part of the ending to me is that you can't just force Emp and Orpheus to get along for long enough to kill the brain, Orpheus knows a mind flayers is needed to counter the brain's plotting so why force someone to sacrifice themselves when there's a live one right there that also wants to kill the brain? At least make it a DC 50 Persuasion check or something instead of Emperor just going "welp I'm gonna commit suicide by making myself your enemy" when it fully knows that your party can just carve a path through an entire army to get to the brain at that point.

Their God/Creator is a cunt

Hmm.... making me thunk

stop controlling me >:(

empreh has a bitch fit and tells me he crippled stelmane and he's the god king of the universe

call him out for killing his dragon butt budy

emprah has a bitch fit about being the bestest to ever best and that all who oppose him should be offed

say you'll help orpheus because this shit can't go on

he has a bitch fit and teams up with the brain just to prove you he was right, he literally sacrifices his free will just to shit on you thinking he's right over everything

sure, he's neutral, but he's nowhere near good, lawful or even chaotic. bitch's neutral evil through and through, it's almost like they hired amon jerro and shoved him in a squid suit and told him to be more faggy.

good evil races are retarded period
so tired of this obsession with deconstroooooocting. trope subversion is so done to death that it's become the new trope.

drow where tieflings before tielfings. same kind of people play them as the "oh i'm gonna pick this race that's scary and people think are evil in universe but break the stigma by playing as a good guy!!". except while tieflings are usually "we look evil but can be any alignment really" the stigma agaisnt drow is completely warrented beacause 95% of them are completely irredeemablely evil.

I like them as exceptions

That's a retcon.

how does Thaqualm sustain herself on brains if shes a non-violent pacifist?

They're like jews. Hope this helps

the ring would probably be moderately useful if you didn't have an astral macguffin nannying you already
it's like someone handing you a fire extinguisher when you're already wearing a full fireman rescue kit

They're just handled unproperly a lot of times.
I don't mind the idea of a evil race living no differently from a good race just with their own ideals and morals.
Hell, even Frieza can be seen as a good bad guy because he gives maternity leave for his workers.

It's a Sune monastery. They dedicate themselves ot the second head of the human male.

if the robot subsisted on human brains and could be easily influenced by a evil hindmind into acting as an extension of it's will I don't think it would be too hard to advocate for it's removal from society

Drow are just blue elves right? Mindflayers are extradimensional entities that feed off the mindpower gained through driving mortals to insanity through psychic attacks

I just thought Omeluum was a giant kike like his lodgemates

Drow are just blue elves right?

They prayed then got tied to an evil spider God.

noooooo black people arent evil, look at these innocent orcs in lord of the rings!!!

Good/Evil doesn't matter.
We're their food supply, so they have to go.
If they only ate cow or elf brains, maybe a compromise could be struck, alas.

they are the druchii of DnD

There's a cheap ring in 3.5 that lets you survive without having to eat.

doesn't he literally tell you about all the random innocents he's killed in a fit of autism. I get that the writers want him to be morally grey or whatever but they're not very good at their jobs

orcs=black people

Why didn't they learn their fucking lesson with bright? its so fucking stupid

they're purple

they have to eat sentient creatures' brains
it's hard to see that as good
and they are too intelligent to be neutral

i mean, maybe they eat the brains of suffering terminally ill people or something to live in society, but there's a whole range of issues with that too including that would be like you committing to a diet of shit

Wasn't Jizzt Do Turdon a good drow?

What pissed me off is they got the race wrong entierly. Tolkien Orc's (and by virtue, like 70% of all fantasy Orcs since) were based of Mongolians and you can see this in some of their aesthetics.

are evil routes fixed now?

Some races and cultures are simply not compatible

I always found it strange that people complain about orcs in a post Warcraft 3 world.

The Mindflayer will lie, deceit, and betray without remorse as it has no empathy for other cultures, but watch them crawl back when questioned and pointed out

when the whole "woke" thing as at its peak, people starting hunting for things to be offended by in legacy pop culture, and that was one of the more stretchy ones they came up with. it didn't really catch on like they intended though.

Drow are just under the influence of an evil god that traps them. They are just as much victims in their own system as much as they are perpetrators. If you escape the Spider Queen's influence, you're just a purple skin elf that people (reasonably) are suspicious about since so few drow are successful in escaping the Spider Queen's influence. If the Spdier Queen outright was destroyed, drow society could easily reinvent itself and thrive without her.

Mindflayer's entire existence is predatory and expansionist and exist in a psychic hive mind where free thought itself is a joke. They are completely alien in almost every capacity. They are literally not even natural by their own standards, they're like baby purple worms who realized they can puppeteer corpses and corrupt their nymph bodies instead of turning into their adult form: Giant mindless killer space worms that eat everything. They eat sapient beings for survival and keep their slaves in worse conditions than the drow, who at least don't EAT their slave and might have a house slave or two. No, a mindflayer's slave is literal cattle for them. They need a humaniod host that they effectively kill, they need to feast on humaniod's for survival. It's like trying to make a "good" lich. At least werewolves and vampires can, in theory, find ways to morally justify their existence or avoid eating innocents or even resort to just animals or those that attack them, mindflayers do not even consider the idea of humaniod reality a thing, they exist on a morality completely alien to any of us, and one that views us as either a threat to their existence, a new host, slave, or lunch.

Off topic, but what do you think of stormlight? Technically the best worldbuilding, you know, from a technical standpoint.

stormwhat? qrd?

Maybe? Later orc's yes, but Tolkien Orc's always felt like an industrial, cruel culture that focuses on efficiency and practicality and punishing everything that does not fit that mold. Infighting is not inefficient, it's simply serves to weed out the weak and train the strong. And after the infighting is over, the dead orc is now lunch. There's no real Mongolian shamanistic religion or appreciation of nature or love of the plains and sky among them where-as later orcs are definitely nature worshiping in some capacity. In DnD Orcs are tribal warriors who are very similar to Mongolians alongside stereotypes about tribal warrior societies. The hobgoblins alongside the goblins and bugbears are ironically closer to Tolkien Orc's, due to their entire culture of industrialized warfare, being corrupted by an evil warmongering god, and having different "tiers" of goblins (Goblins=Goblins, Hobgoblins=Orcs, Bugbear=Uruk-Hai).

i mean, maybe they eat the brains of suffering terminally ill people or something to live in society, but there's a whole range of issues with that too including that would be like you committing to a diet of shit

Literally one of the Karlach's route.

Intresting perception I didn't consider. Where would you say the "Orc's as Mongols" thing start then? Warcraft?

The hobgoblins alongside the goblins and bugbears are ironically closer to Tolkien Orc's

I could be dead wrong but I always figured DnD Goblinoids were based of Romans.

Omeluum is right there in the first act, lil bro

Stormlight by some brandson guy, he got 15m usd for his upcoming ttrpg. Plenty of rpg top stars working with him. I don't like his works, but I do consider him as #1 worldbuilders, at least among living worldbuilders.

Is he good?

They feed on the psychic energy in the brain as much as they do the actual flesh, so only intelligent species will do.

You haven't watched southpark, I see.

Why were there basically no tough moral decisions in this game?

Was that by design or incompetence?

I made this ages its got grammar mistakes but the concept carries through

Did (You) slurp up the Mind Flayer Parasites? Why or why not?

Only if I'm a rogue.

I enjoy each one when the writing fits.

Hey dude, put more worms in your brain

That sounds really fucking dumb.

I wanna fuck it

But it's bad and it has no soul and it eats brains and

My dick does not care

Asterion was the only one who actually wanted them so I fed all of them to him.

drow choose to torture people
flayers HAVE to eat brains

if he only ate jews he wouldnt be evil any longer because he is exerting a net positive on the world, and probably the universe

Still deny the astral touched tadpole, because of muh aesthetics.

All dialog in the game indicates yes, unlike Emps Omellum is actively looking for a substitute food source besides brains.

Does The Emperor even need to eat brains so long as he's in the astral plane? Or have the Gith attacking him literally been the only reason he hasn't starved to death yet by being free meal deliveries?

I think the Emperor is just a bad character and his schizophrenic dishonest attitude is a reflex of the band-aid writing mess the game sticks on him

abeloths are actually the good guys

That's not how you spell it.

Not really, if the drow don't torture people their spider goddess will torture them instead

Because Drow are not born of evil essence, they are elves through and through, same souls. It's a societal and nurture issue, they get turboraped by Lolth and their priesthood, and even in the Underdark the average Drow is more likely to be tortured and killed by Lolth and her goons than rise in power through treachery and murder. They are free to worship whoever they want if they leave, and they have Eilistraee as their good-aligned goddess.

Ilithids are aberrations, they are TECHNICALLY not fundamentally evil the way fiends and demons are, but being inherently tied to eating the brains of lesser races, along with being born with orders of magnitude higher intellect and thus viewing other races as cattle, and having Elder Brains in control, it's really, really, really difficult to not be an evil mind flayer. It's in their nature to enthrall and eat others, but *technically* they aren't inherently evil.

GIWTWM

They are free to worship whoever they want if they leave

why did viconia trade one shitty evil goddess that hates her followers for a slightly less evil goddess that also hates her followers? why is branwen viconia but better?

BG3 Viconia is not canon.

b-but

Fuck you

Not in my first playthrough, because I played the ea once. In the second playthrough I did, and it made the game was even easier. Curious about honor mode, but hate the rule changes.

Bg3 is fanfic, bc larian can't write a story for their life.

That shouldn't stop something from being able to not be evil. Being soulless doesn't mean you have to be la chaotic evil.

Basically evil in the same way people view hornets as evil. They produce nothing of value, they sting the fuck out of you if you have the misfortune to run into them, and they reproduce by either abducting other insects and sealing them in pods for their larva to eat, or they inject their eggs directly inside of other bugs. Wasps are basically nature's illithids by every measure besides intelligence.

BG3 ruined tabletop DnD.
Try to find anyone who isn't some half-assed Astarion but Drow; or Shadowheart wannabe. All these people go with unconventional characters and it's boring. Someone playing a human male is more interesting than these "special snowflakes"

What's funny is that we do meet one and he is chill, even if he is an abomination that should be culled.

You're a mindflayer

For whatever reason find yourself away from the Elder Brain and with free will

Remember your mortal life but only as a distant memory, like it happened to someone else

What do you do in this situation?

I wasn't talking about bg3 viconia, I mean in BG1 she's a shar worshipper because she did break off from drow society. I'm asking why she would worship a shitty god like shar and not a neutral one that actually gives shit about their worshippers. I think the real answer is that back in ADnD unless your name was Drizzt as a drow your automatically some varient of evil, and its easier to reason a drow worshipping shar to join an adventuring party than a lolth one who's goddess would demand they slaughter said adventuring party

Remember your mortal life but only as a distant memory, like it happened to someone else

That's pretty much an identity death so hell if I know because whatever that mindflayer is, it's not me

Eat brains and then get killed by an angry mob probably