Untitled

"all this shit for nothing... I should have shagged Gustave"

People always bring up this Lune moment, but no one ever theorizes what THIS face is supposed to be expressing.

"This isn't right." Sciel is the one who sees through lies and to the truth of things. Apparently this copy of her retained that capability.

Sciel and Maelle were the semon demons of the party, but Lune was honestly the most interesting. Her repressed grief, smoldering intensity, and curiosity constantly bordering on dangerous made her consistently the most interesting person during most major story beats. If you put her personality in Sciel's body you'd have a SSS tier waifu that I'd keep the canvas alive for.

They're all fighting Alicia's influence over them. Sciel was most aligned with Verso when it comes to yearning for the sweet release of death. Sciel is feeling for him here.

damn that's fucked up

mfw Gustave is outright mind-wiped

mfw I made up fictional scenarios to justify my choice of Verso's ending

Sciel understood Verso more and probably respected his decision, and I imagine Sciel also knew the truth of the world, so maybe she felt like it was for the best. Sciel did love Verso, and Luna did as well in her own way. We know Sciel had a husband and was pregnant at one point. She found comfort in turning to Verso as they both were similar in certain regards.

You even see Sciel reach out to Verso as she's fading away, like she accepts her death but doesn't blame Verso.

the music

Also, when Sciel fades the first time at the end of act 2, she's the only one who looks relieved and ready to 'be with her husband'

I wish Sciel seemed more conflicted about the knowledge that Maelle could rez her husband, you'd think it would make her feel the impermanence and meaninglessness of the world that Verso seems to feel. She would have made a good contrast with Lune who seems to accept the finality of her parents' death but still ardently wishes to protect the canvas even after learning she's just the product of the painters.

le ick faec

She was just as tired as Verso was.

Sciel did love Verso

Sciel and Lune KNOW their happiness was bought at the expense of Verso and the Dessendres, they know it's wrong yet do nothing to stop it because as Verso said

everyone is a hypocrite trying to get their way not caring who has to suffer to get it including him

like she accepts her death but doesn't blame Verso.

She accept her death and understand why it happen, but she sure as hell will still blame Verso for betraying. That why she didn't outright let him hold her hand.

Yeah they kill the MC 10 hours into the game

You grieve for two.

I grieve for many.

sciel a best

maybe i'm reading between the lines but i agree that sciel seems to contrast with lune and maelle, and probably aligns a bit more with verso. lune represses her grief like another anon said, and we all know what maelle's deal is. by contrast, sciel seems like she's ready to let go

Everyone loves Verso. He's the director's self insert. If Gustave lived he'd be gay for him.

Everyone loves Verso

Live Lune reaction

Line fucks him though

My sex toy

Ganna understand how each person live

Scial get to get a husband, got loved, and while she lost her husband and child, she had a life

She realize if she die, she can be with her love one in the afterlife

Lune spend 25/7 a day nonstop on research for the sole purpose of the Expedition

all went into nothing as she stare at Verso pressing the nuke button

she hasn't live a single day of life

I romanced Sciel and made Lune seethe in her rank 7 relationship scene, and I thought that had some impact on the ending here. Nope, apparently she death glares at Verso no matter what while Sciel seems to react relatively warmly. I respect the game for actually letting these characters be characters and not let the player's arbitrary decision of who they "romance" impact how they respond to major story events.

Yoshitp this when he woke up and opened bluesky this morning

Well she should have hooked up with Gustave when she had a chance

Remember to thank Maelle for saving the world from Verso the genocidal madman

I was so excited when Sophie suggested that Gustave and Lune might be in a relationship, just for them to not be in one at all and never were in one, and instead Lune potentially fucks that 100 year old traitor Vershit. Gustave gives her and Sciel the rope when Maelle resurrects him in the good ending. Facts

I half believe its the hapa writer sharing her real life experience and how that shit went no where.

I want to spank and slap Sciel's big butt. Is this normal?

She refused to act to stop Verso with the moments she would of had beyond the barrier, but instead she chose to do nothing and so her rights to be deliberated on in an ending is forfeit.

I can't comprehend why people chose Maelle.
As soon as it was revealed she could bring back the dead I knew it was over, there was only one way the story was ending and it was with her leaving the canvas. There was no future for a Lumiere with a god living among them.
Then I remembered the letter and thought okay she will convince her father to repaint then, erase the memories from their heads and leave with him. Bittersweet but more happy than not. Then she suicided the masked girl and I knew it was truly over. They were going to erase the painting.
I was surprised we even got a choice.

Maelle put her and Lune back together properly, so they're still themselves.

As soon as it was revealed she could bring back the dead I knew it was over

For me it was when it became abundantly clear that, when Renoir was saying she's already beginning to lose herself in the canvas, he was completely right and she kept lying to his face when she insisted that she'll be able to moderate herself and won't just turn into Aline.

I was surprised we even got a choice.

Same here, but I'm glad we did. The Maelle ending is a far cry from what I'd have ever opted into, but I reloaded my save just to check it out and in some ways it's even more evocative than the Verso ending. It's hard to deliver a "bad" ending that still feels impactful and potentially canon rather than a some lame humiliation ritual that's easily discarded as non-canon.

This.

Yes
I like Sciel
There's no porn of her rn

Yeah when I got to Renoir all the signs were already there, she was turning into her mother.
Her ending is more memorable that's true, and a right punishment for people who chose it willingly. But bad endings are usually more memorable for a number of reasons, remember Sparks Liner High?

Because they either
1. Are Waifu Fags
2. Feel offended that the game isn't just good dudes saving the world and so lash out at characters like Verso out of spite.
3. Autisticlly connect with the Worlds and Charcters in the fiction they consume over what the media is trying to be about, and so lash out at the idea of "genocide" in a story where the genocide already happened and the game stopped caring about it as the scope of the work moves past where it started.

Maellesisters our response?
youtube.com/watch?v=6ZcJKKERDr4

I wish Sciel seemed more conflicted about the knowledge that Maelle could rez her husband, you'd think it would make her feel the impermanence and meaninglessness of the world that Verso seems to feel.

if god shows up and offers to rez your loved ones you're not gonna say no

Well she should have made it happen

She probably met the right person since her last name is {Svedberg}

I probably wouldn't, but I would also probably feel some type of existential dread knowing that my very existence can be removed and re-added more or less at will by some greater power, and furthermore that said greater power has human-like sentience and therefore is susceptible to mood swings and the like. It should register as a major jolt to one's sense of self but she and Lune seem to take it in stride (with Lune it kinda makes sense given how one-track-minded she is, she basically spent her entire life doing nothing but fixate on what exists outside of Lumiere and how to do everything she can to support the expeditions).

I was really excited for the relationships. Aquafarm 3 made me think Gustave and Sciel were childhood friends and Sciel had lost him to Sophie. On the other hand, Luna seemed almost perfect for him. Maelle was out of the question sadly. Then he dies and this dude literally replaces him in every single aspect. He's nowhere near as charismatic and the romances feel forced as fuck; Sciel is not a widow looking for one night stands, and Lune didn't really have any chemistry with Verso.
I hate that all these western rpgs take say they take inspiration from Japanese games always end up denouncing Japanese tropes and go for "realistic" western stuff.

I feel like inserting this face at the end gives mixed signals about what the game is supposed to mean. These non-entities are mad about dying? It feels like if you had to choose between an entire universe of people versus one family, you should absolutely choose the universe every time

but they don't have souls

so then why would I care about these things being mad?

You personally don't have to care about them being mad, but a lot of other people were, which is why the developers give you an ending where everyone lives and "nothing bad" happens. I also think that's the mentally ill ending that only mentally ill people picked.

Anon their French, to the French fucking is just a tier above saying hello.

Sciel is not a widow looking for one night stands

Why not? She's flirtatious with Gustave too, probably trying to fill the hole that Pierre left since he passed away abruptly and unexpectedly rather than being gommaged at the expected age.

Lune didn't really have any chemistry with Verso

This feels true but in honesty the two have way more in common than Verso+Sciel. I believed those two could spark a romance, but she's so standoffish the entire time that it never really felt very organic which is why I fugged Sciel instead.

I think the romance is shoehorned too, but not necessarily because I don't think Verso is an acceptable match with the two but rather because it doesn't really do anything at all to the story. You just get a short description of kisses or "spending a long time together" with a fade to black. It's so substanceless I question its inclusion.

Sciel was all over Gustave on act 1

Bitch really wanted some cock

The Devs wanted their care and to eat it to.
There is an ending where the cycle of grief which the game is about is concluded but at the same time they wanted to also make it bittersweet and so pulled the "everyone you grew to care about except Alicia is going to die" to get there.

I meant to say now*
Sorry, it's just that's never mentioned when Gustave was alive.

he does look a lot like her dead husband that showed up during Sirene with that stache

Some women are just lonely, especially after going through a break-up or losing a lover. A lot of men take advantage of women going through break-ups as they're vulnerable and try to provide "comfort" as a means of getting into their pants. Some women even acknowledge this, but don't care and then later on they blame the man for taking advantage of their vulnerable state, despite the fact the woman agreed to sex. They'll instantly make it your fault.

Ah. I mean I still didn't really find Sciel's behavior around Verso that unusual. Maybe I just missed a detail that she was close to Gustave which might contextualize how badly she wants his dick, but she just generally seems to be ready for the dick. Most people probably romanced her because she's just sullen and horny the whole game.

It feels like if you had to choose between an entire universe of people versus one family, you should absolutely choose the universe every time

It's a question of values. If some amount of strangers are worth more to you than a family member you love, then yeah. But most people aren't ideological extremists who think all human beings are equal and can have their lives weighed equally. Obviously, people are not interchangeable and are not equally valuable. So who is worth more to Verso and who is worth more to Maelle?

Verso decides that Alicia is worth more to him than pAlicia. He also chooses her over pRenoir, Monoco, Esquie, Sciel, Lune, and everyone else in Lumiere.

Malicia values her wish fulfillment more than real or painted Verso's sacrifices, and more than her real life.

No, I understood it, it's just I was upset she was completely different from what I expected. I fell for the JRPG marketing, and it really rustled my jimmies.

Is that why she threw herself at Verso?

i want a happa gf so bad

At least there isn’t a black

No but seriously why does everyone have such a gigantic fucking head

So are you fags just the annoying shadow heart faggots spamming 2 years ago?

They don't. People are using the big head mod to troll with screenshots.

No, at least in my case I care about this games ending and since this is modern Anon Babble know that whatever side is more willing to stick it out and be obstinate about theirs being right will get to decide what later come and secondary anons believe in the future.

a sexual one no less
she was made to please the painters

I've played the game, retard. Everyone has huge heads.

Funny how you think the people from the canvas are complex enough to have these feelings but it's still okay to genocide them.

It's not only about Sciel and her husband, though. It's the entirety of Lumiere.

This ending spooked the shit out of me when I finished the game at 3AM. Totally unexpected.

BUNDA

I still stand by that ending but man that shot and musical sting fucked me up

Verso gets to fuck THIS?

The story had a great mystery box hook but character development for some of the members not named Verso or Maelle was a massive letdown towards the end of Act 2 when the focus shifted from the World to the Family. Just on story alone, I rate it a 7/10

I feel for Lune, Sciel and wanted a tomorrow for everyone else in the canvas but when Maelle dusted pAlicia and Verso said you painters all do whatever you want i knew it was over

Would

NTA but for me it is because the themes of the game point to the cycle of grief needing to stop, and just because the devs made that choice harder via the end of the painting meaning death for those involved for pathos doesn't mean I will deny those themes.

her disappointed face is so hot bros...

I have no intention of playing this game. I'm only here for the hot girls.
That said, I'm curious. How does the ending ruin the game? Is it "haha subverting expectations" bullshit?

but character development for some of the members not named Verso or Maelle was a massive letdown

character development? what character development? lmao
Verso doesnt even go through an arc, hes the same character. He has a plan, and executes it. One could say that he changed his mind at the end with deciding to destroy the canvas...but thats the thing, he changes his mind despite knowing the true nature of EVERYTHING. He didnt learn anything that he didnt know before.
Maelle other than learning the truth, doesnt really change as a character, shes still an emotional spoiled brat.
The rest of the characters like lune or sciel have no impact in the story whatsoever other than emotional support for verso or maelle.

Child Verso yes.
Luna is a shotacon

It's a "the world you've played in for dozens of hours is fake and meaningless" kind of ending.

That's my wife

It's "it was all a dream/simulation" ending.

Character development also means how the character develops to us. This includes character revelations that we players didn't know at the start of the game. Hope that helps.

It is not fake and meaningless. If it was indeed fake and meaningless then people won't be seething about the ending this much.

Poor, sweet, sexy Lune...

Only people who chose Maelle are seething.

i want to kiss those lips

"Play that piano, for fuck's sake, or that crazy god will annihilate us all!"

desu I don't really think people are seething about it, it's more like friendly banter over a good game

Ngl now that I had played through the ending, it makes the Axon scenes so much fucking weirder. Why did they care at all about Lune and Sciel who are functionally just complete randos

Its a matter of the thing you set out to do in act 1 is trivialized by the end of act 2 and the real conflict which is only fully revealed at said end of act 2.
Which is that the world is a magic painting made by this guy Verso (the real guy which the in game character is a paint copy of) and which the rest of his family is fighting in after his death.

Then the endings to that conflict are "destroy the painting so that Verso's sister Alicia (red haired girl) can move on at the cost of everyone in said painted world" or "Alicia rots to death in the painting (if the painters stay to long it starts killing them) by the world is remade to be Better? while she is around".

Consider. The is is the player.

please understand that the script was rewritten 5 times over delvopmet.

mogged

this game is just EYE Divine Cybermancy

Sorry, I have to say it. The story is good out to the end of Act 1. Act 2 you can already see the cracks.

End of act 1 into act 2

You haven't even got to the story

Lune has better everything else so it evens out

Lune has a cuter face

Yeah, and they're aware they're in the presence of a God to them essentially, who can bring back the dead

Maelle fags are so retarded because half their argument centers around how her ending keeps the painted people alive, but now what?
If one of them falls off a cliff accidentally is Maelle going to bring them back? Is Maelle going to let them age?

Sciel's nice, but there's simply no beating Lune.

Do they even think that far? It's always

Muh sentience

I HATE!!!! Verso shut up and play the piano

It's weird seeing people actually making coomer art for a non Japanese game

And Versofags will murder the characters you spent the whole game with for the sake of the antagonists and a compulsive liar. So the painting is destroyed. Now what? Aline paints a new canvas that she can try and play house in? Clea keeps being a cunt? Maelle kills herself because she's still blamed for Verso's death and it physically hurts her to live? Good ending.

want to go sciel, because her amd verao chemistry is way better

but still love lunes autism and looks much better

sciel wants sex very early in the game.

immediately after she tells me to fuck off because her dead husband is more important bit only after we fucked

lune mad that she didn't get it first so now im alone

Did the devs literally put my last relationship in the fucking game? Christ.

The only mistake Verso made was to save Alicia from the fire.

There's probably a beginning and a middle too, but I haven't played it

You were cucked by a dead hushband that couldn't even come back to life? grim.

Why did Lune and Sciel sorta stop developing after act 1?

Yes, good ending. Fuck P*inters you fucking simp.

Fuck this kind of goalpost moving plot, now to think about it, the reason i stop playing after act 1 is the same reason i stop watching AOT after the reveal of the world and politics outside the walls, when the media stop being what you sign up for. It's text book bait and switch, idk why it makes me seethe so bad even after retreats from it, fuck them man.

Alicia dies in fire instead of Verso

How does the plot change? Does Verso essentially take Aline's place but as more of a music-based game? Is it instead about the rest of the family trying to pull Verso out since Aline and Clea don't give a fuck about Alicia?

no one cares about your incel boyfriend.

It's implied the world only exists due to the piece of Verso's soul contained within it. Is he not entitled to end his suffering?
How about the family tries and progress? The whole game is built around improving even if things seem bleak (for those who come after), but no, let's just ignore all that and let Maelle play dollhouse
What happens when the paintings start asking to be allowed to die? Is it gonna make her too sad and she'll force them to just keep playing their role as she wants?

How does the plot change?

Nothing happens, the family lives happily ever after.

Because even the developers don't give a fuck about the painted people
They half ass the argument that they're real when they should be beating you over the head with it. Even at the end when Maelle is talking to Verso, she never even uses them as a motivation for him to keep going, it's solely about her

Is he not entitled to end his suffering?

Sure but then are the lives of the canvas denizens not entitled to exist either? Real answer is to have Gustave find a solution.

How about the family tries and progress?

Unless she can afford some major surgery I don't see Alicia progressing beyond being a disfigured one-eyed mute.

What happens when the paintings start asking to be allowed to die?

We can assume all sorts of things in that case. Both endings are rather ambiguous.

How do you buy the game thinking it's an adventure and keep playing after it reveal that the game is about a family playing cards? This is why Renoir being so vague at the beginning because you still not swallowing the hook.

The ending is literally the weakest part of the game, and it’s still good

That said, I'm curious. How does the ending ruin the game?

If you're stupid you won't understand it. You sound a bit stupid.

Yes, how dare you. Legit go outside.

copy

Pay attention, anon.

Because the other end involves killing everything. That's bad.

Alicia is rich and skin relatively good quality grafts were a thing by then.
She won't ever be pretty and the Eye and respiratory problem will stick around but the skin can be healed and she has paint magic which works in the outside world.

These non-entities

You are retarded. How did you manage to go through the entire game and arrive at this brain dead conclusion? What the fuck do you think the opening was? An ad for going on a cruise?

There is an ending where the cycle of grief which the game is about

Imagine a crazy world where something profound can be about more than exclusively one thing. Congratulations, you willed it into existence.

Because by the time everything is revealed I was invested enough in what they were presenting and the bridge of Verso and Alicia to keep going.

they should be beating you over the head with it.

I think they wrote the game with the assumption that people aren't braindead. Which was the right choice, even if it leaves some people behind.

Or you can grow a spine and have standards instead of consume and defending everything they throw at you.

Yes other themes exist but everything ties into that central theme, don't blame me that you got fixated on a sub-theme and rejected its place in the grater narrative of the work.

She is like that because Verso lied and betrayed her again. Noticed how’s she the only one that doesn’t go outside the canvas

Small game and they probably ran out of dev time so the extreme hard cut to Verso and (more) Maelle had to take the front, it's what the game is about anyway. It's pretty clumsy but it ended up working out and it's easy to overlook the weak parts.
And there was still development in the relationship scenes, it's just not reflected anywhere but in those scenes

fuck the mission...

Wow this game is so awesome and amazing look how many threads on Anon Babble there are!

all the threads are just a picture of some whore

Why can't the shills just admit that nobody actually likes the game, they just like to goon to the characters.

Renoir unironically did nothing wrong.

Which one?
pRenoir did a lot wrong and could have saved a lot of suffering by talking to people

The real one obviously. Renoir was the victim of multiple woman moments.

Ignores the thread and how all of these fucking threads go before posting.
There are two types of E33 threads
"The best JRPG" (Ironic or not) and "Ending Argument threads"
And 70% of these threads are Ending Threads of which a large contingent of waifufags use the chick in the OP to argue.

some whore

Almost no one posts Sciel tho?

I agree, he was always right
Rewatching all the Renoir cutscenes (including painted) makes the whole thing a hell of a lot sadder with full context

Funny how the story is the worse part of the game but even then it’s still a 8/10 or 9/10 story

I'm white.

Hit post too early
Rewatching the painted death scene almost killed me IRL

I love them too

How do you buy the game thinking it's an adventure and keep playing after it reveal that the game is about a family playing cards?

New information and changes in perspective make me shift how I interpret the thing. Crazy, I know.

B-BUT HOW CAN YOU LIKE FFVII AFTER THE FOCUS OF THE STORY SHIFTS? IT WAS ABOUT ECO TERRORISM!!1

This is you.

I feel like I need to replay this game a year or two from now just to add context to the earlier scenes. I feel like I missed a lot.

Story is actually the best part you stupid bitch.
This is quite possibly the first time ever in vidya history where we have an MC be an actual villain.

And yes Verso is a fucking VILLAIN

The game has no villain. Closest thing to a villain is Aline.

I bet you think ending the fire in Dark Souls 3 is the bad ending.

They both are. Painted Verso is a lying fuck who is willing to wipe out the entire world he lives in just because he wants to die. However Maelle being a paint addict is the entire reason we're stuck with these 2 bittersweet endings. If she just accepted that she'll have to watch the gang grow old then miss out on the next generation while she rests everything would work out.

The Lune relationship really makes no sense to me, especially when you consider all of the events that transpire right before it becomes available. You have her going from rightfully calling out Verso for constantly lying and scheming behind their backs to jumping his dick almost immediately.

Verso was the most sane person in the game actually

can't comprehend why people chose Maelle.

To make Verso suffer. The story sucks. Why should I care? The game went from horrific struggle of Lumerians to this faggot and his mommy hooked on minecraft.

most sane person in the game

"FUCK YOU MAELLE YOU KILLED MY SISTER I DIDN'T EVEN GET TO SAY GOODBYE!"

"Weren't you gonna kill her anyway via destroying the canvas?"

"FUCK YOU IT'S DIFFERENT!"

Verso literally spends the entire game pulling an "In Water"

Why are men like this?

Painted Verso is a lying fuck who is willing to wipe out the entire world he lives in just because he wants to die

You didn't understand Verso.
Do you realize that the entire premise your argument rests on ("Verso wants to die") lies on something he told you? The same guy you call a "lying fuck"?
Of course, Verso lies about everything, except when he claims he wants to die just because he sad or tired or some shit. That's his only moment of pure honesty. He had no reason to lie about that.
Learning more about Verso, or how he feels about Aline and Alicia, should cause nobody to ever doubt the truth of the "wants to die" statement.

His canvas, his soul, his choice. Stop being a simp blinded by megalomaniac Paintress pussy

Versofags are pathetic. The Dessendre family drama was a terrible story. There's nothing sane about resolving basic family drama with violence and murder.

Verso did nothing wrong
Renoir did nothing wrong
Aline and Alicia are the villains

The Dessendre family drama was a terrible story. There's nothing sane about resolving basic family drama with violence and murder.

Oh yes, the resolution of JRPG stories should always be ones you reach through mutual concensus, understanding and a democratic vote.
The Dessendre family story is tragedy kino.

Renoir is literally the most understandable and truly truly did nothing wrong
Just a father trying to keep his family together

TRVTHNVKE

mommy won't stop playing minecraft

tragedy kino

The only people who think E33 story post Forgotten Battlefield is good are the legally retarded.

Just a father trying to keep his family together

This but also for Verso.

You have her going from rightfully calling out Verso for constantly lying and scheming behind their backs to jumping his dick almost immediately.

Pretty accurate portrayal of a woman desu, especially one as repressed and socially maladjusted as Lune.

Fictional allegories are b-bad and u dumb, okay? They just are

Grow up, faggot. You're not smartest than anyone. You're in the same taiwanese bastkweaving image board as everyone else.

Fictional allegories are b-bad and u dumb,

Yes.

You need to live this life that you don't want

"you too"

NOOOOO

Fuck Verso.

They don't really, I don't know what you're talking about. By the end of act 1, you know basically nothing about Lune other than the fact that she's a workaholic, and you know nothing about Sciel other than the fact that she's really sexy and flirty. You eventually gather info about their families, their hobbies, their lifestyles, their professions, etc. The scene where they say their goodbyes to Gustave at his burial alone tells you more about their characters than all of the info you have about them up to that point.

Nobody was more hurt by Verso dying in the fire than Renoir. Imagine being stuck with three equally insane women for the rest of your life. It's a miracle that nigga isn't rushing into the first painting that gets him out of that waking nightmare, frankly.

You need to live this life that you don't want

"you too"

NOOOOO

Fuck Maelle.

>>"Weren't you gonna kill her anyway via destroying the canvas?"

Maelle never says this, you're making an argument and pretending a character says it in the game's text for some reason. In the actual video game we're talking about, Maelle totally understands why Verso was upset at her removing painted Alicia from the canvas while he was frozen in time.

This is the funniest "have your cake and eat it too" moment from the game writers. fakeRenoir being uber evil and a complete asshole and then realRenoir coming in later and going "haha my bitch wife made me look kinda evil huh? Now you have to care about me btw"

Id be pissed too if I took down dozens of colossal impossible to beat enemies against all odds that a hundred expeditions failed to do and my reward was a bunch of big fat nothing. I don't care how realistic Verso was, he was a lying bastard and I'm glad I picked Maelle so he had to suffer for eternity. He got what he deserved

She literally says what that anon says and Verso actually responds “That’s different”, she then says she understands him being mad at her which is the part you just described.

Just did Verso ending and I'm unironically tearing up, Maelle looks so sad and alone. Is escapism really bad considering the state of her body in the real world?

Honestly not enough people are taking this angle. Verso DESERVES to be punished.

Golden route when?

yeaaaaaa she was pretty mad at the end. But that's okay. I've had women mad at me before.

Most people just go based on the presentation instead of their own personal beliefs and feelings. I feel this thought provoking game is wasted on a generation of retarded herd mentality gamers with no mental agency of their own. Pearls before swine.

pVerso is honestly the biggest bastard in the game other than Aline herself.
He lies and betrays the party multiple times and he let my nigga Gustave die just so he could take his place.

She literally says what that anon says

She says "You expected papa would erase the canvas", which is obviously not the same thing as Maelle personally getting rid of Alicia specifically because that would also kill Verso and therefore he wouldn't be able to grieve for her. He wants the entire canvas deleted, not just the parts of it he cares about so that he feels even more isolated and miserable trapped in a cold and unfeeling eternal hell.

Verso is assmad because painted Alicia curves him, then time freezes and when he wakes up she's fucking dead and he's still stuck here. If you don't see the different between that and just going scored earth and deleting the entire canvas, I don't know what to tell you.

he let my nigga Gustave die just so he could take his place.

This isn't why. He lets Gustave die because, as he was quietly monitoring Maelle growing up, he could tell that she was extremely close to Gustave. If he was still around, she would be too closed to the canvas to be willing to let it be destroyed which is Verso ultimate goal. He literally tells her this in plain english. Furthermore, losing Gustave to painted Renoir fuels her drive for revenge against him which also plays into Verso's goals (destroy painted Renoir, then the paintress, then let real Renoir destroy the canvas).

Yeah I was surprised how many people just stopped caring about them because they live in a painting and "aren't real". Then you add the midwits who think "spooky music = bad".

How do I do the other ending? Renoir isn't spawning.

Just reload a save (hopefully you have one from before you decided the fate of the canvas)

load an earlier save

I picked Marche in FFT and Maelle in E33, what does this say about me?

I don't fully disagree, but Verso scheming about how to manipulate the group from the very beginning to get them to do something that is against their own interest and survival is pretty evil.

You're weak in the knees for (digital) hebes and will do their bidding if given the opportunity

it means you did not play FFTA because you don't choose

This really feels like vidya finally maturing in terms of story telling, holy fuck.
I hope we get more of this shit, more actual MCs that are just straight up "villains".

I can't believe this motherfucker betrayed his party members once and they FORGAVE HIM only for this dude to fucking do it AGAIN and betray them once more.
Like holy fucking shit.

What is the moral of the story of expedition 33?

He's at minimum an antihero, and that's only the case if you agree that the canvas should be destroyed. If you side with Maelle, obviously he's an outright villain.

What is the moral of the story of expedition 33?

Dont't trust french "people"

Did you even watch that ending?
She ends up not forgiving him by moving her hand away.

In the Act 2 ending, she was content about it, as she was not aware of any betrayal. Her facial gestures are radically different in both of her gommages. Polar opposites, even.

wants to destroy the world

There's nothing "hero" about that

In the Act 2 ending, she was content about it, as she was not aware of any betrayal.

Also in the act 2 ending, she believes she'll finally be with her husband by being gommaged. By the end of act 3, she now knows her husband can be brought back to her, to be reunited in life rather than death.

There is if you think that world should be destroyed, which clearly there's an argument for given how many people side with Renoir/Verso.

Oh I see. I thought it'd just autoload you before the Renoir fight.

Verso is most definitely not an anti hero.
He is way, way WAYYY more villainous and cutthroat than anti heroes.

An anti hero does not trick his party members to literally delete themselves by killing the paintress, Verso is an absolute fucking monster.

given how many people side with Renoir/Verso

Anon Babble is also the board that thinks James killing himself is the "good" ending to SH2

we back to acting like Renoir didn't delete the people in the painting again

Antiheroes are just people who do horrible things to achieve a just end. To someone who believes Renoir should destroy the painting, Verso is the final vestige of someone who's willing to make that difficult, but correct, decision. All of his lies and betrayal serve the eventual end of destroying the canvas, so to someone who believes that's the morally correct decision, he's an antihero.
It's not just Anon Babble, Maelle's ending is widely thought to be the more sinister/darker of the two in the normalfagsphere too, just check youtube comments of the endings or something.

You need to move on from the bad shit in your life, even if it means you gotta leave some good shit behind also. just bloated out to entire people to drama.

I don't care if Lune is real or not. I would die for her.

I mean, if you come from Danganronpa, anything will look like mature storytelling by comparison.

Hmm, a painter thinks painted people are easily disposable
Interesting

No, you're retarded, there are a lot of villains who are willing to doom the world to revive their dead daughter or to do something that is a semblance of "good".
Villains like the Joker where he just goes "LOL I JUST WANNA SEE THE WORLD BURN" are the minority, most villains do shit because they've been wronged in some way.

The end goal of what a villain wants isn't what defines if they are a villain or not, its the steps they take.
And Verso EASILY crosses past anti villain because he doesn't even attempt to try and be heroic, he doesn't even try to be kind or thoughtful or show ANY characteristic of heroic traits.
An anti hero is still a heroic person, but they are so flawed they just don't know how to be entirely good so they resort to being bad to do good.

Verso doesn't even give Maelle painted alicias letter, Verson lets Gustave die so he can better manipulate Maelle.
Verso is a straight up fucking VILLAIN.

You can say Maelles ending is worse than Verso and that Verso is the "Good ending" for whatever reason, but Maelle is NOT a villain she is honest with what she wants she doesn't lie to her comrades and she seeks for their betterment.

Verso is a 2 faced liar and a villain.

The important distinction is that he th9ings their real enough to apologize to, but not real enough to not let his wife die over.
I have said it before but I think tis best to treat the Painted people as living shadows, alive but of a lesser tangibility than those outside the canvas and therefore less important on the scales of morality.

That's not how Renoir acted at all. Pearls before swine.

The anti-hero title, in my opinion, goes to both Renoirs. They're both very upfront about what they want to do, no bullshit, and their goals are all noble and correct (and in a manner of speaking, in self-defense/preservation), but they go about it in fucked up ways.

They're probably my favorites.

Painted Verso is just a complete nigger that is an expert at finding ways to fuck up. I somewhat felt bad for him during my second playthrough (during the 1st one I was very lost), but then I started to piece him together, and I was like "yikes".

A lie for the greater good is still a good act.

"Greater good" means "what Verso wants and fuck everyone else" lol

If Renoir is trapped under the monolith how is the Curator walking around and in our camp and shit

This is was so satisfying. Glad that this bitch got what she deserved. Feel bad about anyone else.

MaelleFags can't be this close-minded, right?
Then again, they designed her to be a naïve, 16-year-old child for a reason.

Greater Good means letting Alica move on with her life and grow up.

Painted Verso, Renoir, and Clea are completely aligned in their goals though. Verso definitely has a bit of a selfish slant to him, given that his first priority is being released from the eternal hell that he's forced to endure. Renoir and Clea also do some pretty dubious stuff in their ultimate goal of getting Aline out of the painting.

NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST ESCAPE HELL NO MATTER THE COSTS YOU HAVE TO ENDURE IT NOOOO

Its not lying, its BETRAYING, its taking their trust and breaking it REPEATEDLY its having people who trust you delete themselves because you are witholding crucial information.

No, "greater good" or not is meaningless, the steps you take along the way shows Verso is a villain, even if you believe his ending is better than Maelles the fact that Maelle doesn't go about it in such a horrible way shows she's an actual hero unlike Verson.

The anti-hero title, in my opinion, goes to both Renoirs.

Really good point.
I think that is a perfect classification of them.
Both people are upfront with what they want, you can even tell that Painted Renoir feels genuine sadness with what he has to do nonstop comforting Maelle that "what he's offering is kindess" a perfect demonstration of an anti hero, someone who WANTS to do good and is trying to do good but he just has to go about it in a cruel way.

Verso doesn't even do that much, he does NOTHING, he doesn't display any sympathy, any sadness, any comforting words dude straight up just deletes them.
He doesn't try to explain himself, Verso just does what he fucking wants and doesn't even try to justify himself to his own party.

The only one playing is Verso. On a piano. For my amusement.

I don't know about a moral (I don't think it's meant to be didactic), but there are themes to reflect on. One I thought was salient was the many forms of legacy - the things you leave behind "for those who come after." There's obviously a theme of characters coping with grief. An interesting one I heard mentioned was "the artist's relationship with their work."

Yeah, we definitely need to force the horribly disfigured child who can't even speak out into the real world! For the Greater Good even!!!

I beat the game a week ago and did the Verso ending and saw nothing wrong with it. Feels like a bitter ending no matter how you look at it, but I didn't regret it. Then I saw a bunch of posts online of people claiming "anyone who chose the Maelle ending lacks media literacy" along with other smug liberal fart sniffing remarks, and now I'm going to shill Maelle ending just to spite the redditor trannies who want to act high and mighty over a 50 dollar video game.

Is Lune the new Tifa?

I thought the rest of it was great. The ending is just going to be what garners the most discussion because it incites divisive pissed off arguments.

This really feels like vidya finally maturing in terms of story telling, holy fuck.

Would you look at that! The kind of midwits this game attracts.

yeah let he die alone and delusional like aline was instead, nice work

they just don't know how to be entirely good so they resort to being bad to do good

verso lying to force his sister out and get his family's shit together doesn't count?

she is honest with what she wants she doesn't lie to her comrades and she seeks for their betterment

yet i don't think she told them about essentially enslaving her brother's soul to keep the world going

Lying is a good act regardless of its a betrayal or not if it leads to a better outcome.
Lets change the context and instead its a fentanyl operation with a undercover cop who then proceeds to betray the people he was working with to stop more Fent from hitting the streets.
Would you say that's evil? Because right now your expressing a early teen's view of morality.

She can live a full life in the painting with people she loves. What does she even have in the real world?

Alicia was a writter

What place does that fact take in Dessendre family tragedy?

she can live as a god among sentient playthings until it all becomes meaningless to her like it did Verso, she'll still be alive far longer than anyone in the painting

a dying family caught in a war (that she worsened by letting them cause a fire)

You're making false equivalences. Comparing the betrayal of criminals, which are in fact, causing harm to innocents; to the betrayal of innocents.

Devs just confirmed that the Humans of Lumiere don't operate the same way as the Gestrals when they get rezzed because the Gestrals are Verso's creation, while the Humans are Aline's. Maelle was rezzing them with all their memories intact and as the same person. She was doing the right thing while you all misconstrue it as her making them slaves of her creation. The Gustave she rezzes is the Gustave we play.

It's a weird French design quirk. The French game, Fell Seal Arbiter also has characters with big heads and skinny bodies.

Can't she just go to a new canvas and create the same people?

Staying in the painting to long rots ones cognitive faculties as seen by Aline by the time we fight her.
Is early onset dementia that can be avoided by going outside and a few decades of godhood really better than living with a fucked up throat and face while still having magic powers?

yet i don't think she told them about essentially enslaving her brother's soul to keep the world going

What did Gustave and Lune say in the very beginning?
"The future of lumiere is more important than any single individual life".
Their objective is to SURVIVE, "for those who come after" "tomorrow comes".
Everything about them is one objective to keep living.

backstabbing criminals is the same as backstabbing people who literally just WANT TO FUCKING SURVIVE AND LIVE

going outside

she's there forever

Forcing alicia out of the canvas is literally just cruelty, why should she have to go back to being a burn victim who cant even talk just because one verso is sad he has to play piano and the other is sad he has to paint
Just let her be happy lmao

how to manipulate the group from the very beginning to get them to do something that is against their own interest and survival is pretty evil.

He's manipulating everyone into destryoing the canvas so Aline and Alicia are free. That is a noble goal.

we need to just ignore everything the devs say after the game released ngl

So you admit Maelle's ending is simply a selfish ambition for her and not out of goodwill of the painted people?

little sisters are already annoying, imagine one keeping you like a fish in a bowl

People are People
Those Drug dealers had lives and families and friends and hell even likely pets, and there is a good chance they were desperate in some ways. Still makes it right to turn them in.
Positive Outcomes are Positive outcomes

dude let your daughter and wife overdose on magical paint heroin until they die, at least they'll be happy

never start a family

gonna call BS otherwise the entire point behind the dead Noco conversation is meaningless fluff

They're quite literally slaves. Maelle is the god of that world.
We clearly see what happens to those who disobey her with the final scene of Verso being controlled by her.

Verso is dead. You are a burned victim. Face reality, unironically.
This pitty party towards muh burn victim is women coded.

If your very existence can be wiped away or restored indefinitely based on the whims of an all-powerful being with a 16 year old girl's temperament, you are not a free agent. You are a slave.

That's what I'm saying if she just fucking left there would be no problems, but instead she choses to stay in the painting to the detriment of her health, including getting dementia.
Again the question is which is worse, living as a god for a few decades and then getting Dementia, or living as a rich burn victim with magic powers.

evidence of control: I just made it up lole

Verso's ending is the good one but they seriously need to update it in the DLC by giving her a puppy or something.
She looks so sad and lonely at the funeral.

Verso is behaving directly opposite to his wants

This is not someting to think about, just ignore it

I'm convinced that ALL Maellefags have missed the detail that she's going to die in the canvas if she stays there. Would you let your burn victim little sister die of a heroin overdose because at least she'll die happy?

Honestly the devs are incredibly smart for doing the ending in this way
People will be arguing about this shit for years, it's a really good way to ensure this game lives on. It's like Rei vs Asuka in a way. We'll be debating which side is right for years

Its GENUINELY masterclass in story telling.
Like unironically, the french are brilliant.

Like you have a pretty interesting dynamic where both Verso and Maelle want different things.
And for most it would end there, people would pick "Well I like ending A or ending B".

But the beautiful part of it and what places even more nuance is just the fact how much of a piece of SHIT Verso fucking is.
So even if you agree with the idea of "moving on from grief" which most people obviously do and would lean to, you ALSO have to deal with the extra baggage of cosigning Versos fucking actions that led to that ending which is pure piece of shit villain fucking territory.

So while most people naturally agree with moving on from grief, they have to deal with the issue with HOW verso achieved that ending and if being such a blatant piece of shit even make up for the supposed "good" ending you're trying to offer.
Very beautifully done, it adds so many layers to the ending.

Is it really so hard for people to empathize with physically disfigured, and emotionally brutalized people? Sometimes I think you guys live in a bubble.

She has the Esquie plushie, it's cute

the same is being wondered of you m8

made it up

the great thing is she can make a painting that doesn't abuse her dead brother's tortured soul, and go in that one

Clea is the only one that can paint over someone else's creations. And Alicia is a dogshit paintress.

But keep drawing conclusions from no hard evidence.

I don't know if it was really intentional, but even Maelle has a some weird sinister feeling to her ending
She's a living God to these people. She brought people back from the dead, is she going to keep that up? Is it all for her? Will she let them grow old, will they go to her when they feel sick and ask her to make them feel better? Will she get bored of them?
They created a scenario where people feel completely justified and understandable no matter which ending they picked

Versos fucking actions that led to that ending which is pure piece of shit villain fucking territory.

Not really. I agreed with Renoir so I agreed with Verso.

youtu.be/yB-nPIBW-Ks?si=DUpHdWJP86Oo83GR&t=3094
The creators and writers of the game explain that the humans have souls.

yeah i don't get why she can't go make her own canvas and just paint all the people from the Verso canvas

literally erased his scar and made him mortal

"Alicia can't paint over Verso"

the great thing is she can make a painting

At least play the game for a second time, before stating canonically wrong things

Oh yeah that was cute. She needs a cute eyepatch or something imo.

Verso tells her to, maybe she could simply get good at painting instead of moping around and read books.

She's a paintress. Verso literally says she can paint her own world and not live a life she doesn't want when she's dying.

game literally says at the start of act 3

YOU ARE A PAINTRESS

erm no chud she actually can't make a painting, play the game heh

Alicia is still cute and rich too. She could easily find a guy that'd make her stop feeling like a victim and her family would help her too.
There is no universe where her playing make-believe is the right choice.

pretty positive this is just talking about the river reincarnation, he brings up how gestrals already talk about it during the game

You can empathize, but letting someone rot in a fantasy is anti-human.
Like I don't know what its like to live like that, the closes I can say is that I have Severe Scoliosis that gives me chronic pain and a shitty family life which left me destitute and in a lot of poor situations when I was younger. And the idea of burying oneself in something like the painting as an escape is disgusting to me.
Having places to rest and recover from the shit the outside world throws at you is good and necessary, but you got to keep going back out there. Even if the world crushes you underfoot, rest if you need to, but once rested get back up and keep going.
I hold to this and despite the shit I have gone through I'm a semester away from getting a BA and moving up into a income bracket where I can afford my own place to live.
So I feel but sometimes you need to let go and face the world again.

cuz the moment she leaves renoir's gonna chuck what remains of verso in the bin, she says as much in the end

Then why does he hesitate? If he's controlled.

Are you really reaching this conclusion after the game tells you multiple times that she's a shitty paintress, and this evidence is clearly seen with no room to argue in the form of a ruined Lumiere in her ending?

Name 2 original works of Alicia.

yeah i don't get why she can't go make her own canvas and just paint all the people from the Verso canvas

You missed the point of the story.
Alicia is just like her mother. She's living in denial over Verso's death and can't get over it, so she lies about herself by immersing herself into Verso's canvas, where even his childhood adventures still exist.
That's why Aline and Alicia want to be in this canvas. Aline could have painted Verso's copy into another, but she does it in this one because it adds meaning to the canvas. It's not just any canvas, it's the only one they have Verso himself painted.

Renoir had promised, not even five minutes earlier, he wouldn't.
That's her own cope to not leave.

I think an under-examined aspect of the endings is the question of whether of not the canvas (particularly Lumiere) should actually exist to begin with. The canvas is a world built on suffering, twice over - Aline's grief, and the weary fragment of Verso's soul. If you believe the paintings in the canvas have real consciousness, then maybe creating them in that environment was a massively reckless mistake.

Verso is literally buckbroken in Maelle's ending and you can see her holding the whip

yeah nothing in this about how Lumiere's "souls" actually work just that they're different, which, anyone who played the game could already pick up on cause they don't have a whacky revival ritual.

Yet, people were saying that the individuals Maelle resurrected weren't the same; they were just from Maelle's memories, when the devs clearly stated that they are the same ones with the same souls.

The fag writing 5 paragraph essays about Verso is utterly, ludicrously fucking insane. How did you play this game and walk away with such a black and white interpretation? Please, seriously just affix a knife to your wall blade-outward and run int it repeatedly until you die.

now you're just being obtuse and missing the point

Maelle literally gave him his wish to grow old and die. He's growing old.

when the devs clearly stated that they are the same ones with the same souls.

They didn't anon.
They just said it wasn't the same as the gestrals.

There is no denying that Maelles ending indeed feels sinister.
It definitely does and Versos ending feels more "wholesome".

Compunded with the fact that "moving on from grief" is pretty much a well accepted belief that everyone believes in, you HAVE to move on, its a common belief.
However like I stated, Maelles ending feels more sinister than Versos ending, BUT the way Verso achieved his ending is WAYYY more sinister than Maelle did for hers.

So is it not only a conversation around "which ending is better" but also a matter of the actions each character took to get their respect endings.
If Verso wasn't such a piece of shit I'd see more people siding with him but its hard to feel to align yourself with someone who is so blatantly fucking horrendous as a person.

Its just really well done layering and its why there's so much disaggreement because its not just putting into question the quality of the endings but also the people and the actions they did to put the endings into motion.

Renoir you can tell is definitely a good person sadly Verso very much isn't.
Renoir feels like a man with no other options, Verso feels like a scummy piece of shit.

unless that's in a separate video or a different part of that video, he didn't say that

I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN I LOVE ASIAN WOMEN
THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL BECOME ASIAN AND IT WILL BE AT THE HANDS OF THEIR WOMEN

his wish to grow old and die.

I think you missed the part where he goes

MAKE HIM STOP PAINTING

UNPAINT ME

I DON'T WANT THIS LIFE

ask yourself why there is a crazy person defending a teenage girl you can play dress up with

Ashy nasty ass disgusting callused feet, and I'm a literal footfag. Bitch needs a ped-egg or something.

the girlfriend shower rock.....

That was HER wish because there's no point to the canvas without him.
All he wanted by the end was to die because he knows she's never leaving as long as he's alive.

but nothing Verso does is for the greater good. Its all done for himself. Sometimes his goals overlap with what the party believes that they want (because he lies to them). He's a selfish and manipulative person who mrudered his girlfriend 70 years ago because he was still doing the same lying bullshit. He's had 100 years to live but he's still the least wise person around

jesus fuck you versofags truly are insufferable

By the way even if Maelle leaves the painting and comes back even for 1 second all her friends will be dead and replaced by another generation of Lumiere.

it's okay she can paint over em' who gives a shit about lumiere lmao

dumbest fucking argument i've ever read about this game holy shit

Its all done for himself

The game itself disagrees with you.

who mrudered his girlfriend 70 years ago because he was still doing the same lying bullshit.

It's not like they tortured him hardcore once they realized he was immortal or anything.

Something about Maelle's continued existence in Lumiere makes it feel more hollow
She is a God to them, nothing really matters to them anymore

It's a "get the fuck up, go outside, and stop engaging in your destructive escapist hobbies" ending, so naturally Anon Babble is mad about it.

I'm a Versofag, but steelmanning the Maelle side a bit, you could argue that she's giving him a different, better life by letting him live in a peaceful world where he can grow old and die alongside people who care about him, so "I don't want this life" isn't really a counter to the possibility that he may be content with the life he has in the Maelle ending (the sinister framing suggests otherwise, but it's not outside the realm of possibility imo). The main reason the Maelle ending is "bad" is because she's literally going to go insane and die in the painting, Verso's fate isn't really that major of a concern imo.

Not like they will ever know. Or can know.
Perks of being the new paintress.

she's gonna be on customer service 24/7 until she has an Aline moment

Lumiere isn't real so killing them isn't genocide this is not hard to understand

So who is Golgra supposed to be?
The neighbors cat, a butler or something?

I don't want to downplay your pain, Anon, but Alicia differs from you in a critical way, as the painted world was her actual life for a good 16 years, it's not a fantasy to her, it's completely real from her point of view.

This painted world also gave her people that showed genuine affection for her, especially Gustave, a man that did everything he could for her, a man that she's able to bring back. In Paris, we don't know of any friends, Clea bullied her (it's true she actually loves her, but she never shows it due to her cold nature), the two interactions we know of her with Aline are all very negative (painting wall and Monolith flashback argument), and Renoir appears to have been very detached from the upbringing of their children, we actually know very little about Renoir pre-fire, and finally the one person we know of that had a positive relationship with her, died.

I DON'T WANT THIS LIFE

I DON'T WANT THIS LIFE

I DON'T WANT THIS LIFE

I DON'T WANT THIS LIFE

Holy fuck, is Verso like the most suicidal character ever?

I've never fucking seen someone so fucking suicidal that they would go around and delete their entire fucking world to achieve it.

the thinking mans footwife

Complain about black and white interpretation

VERSO IS JUST EVIL OKAY?

Kek

Lets change the context and instead its an entirely different thing

Hahaha you lost retard

Verso's fate isn't really that major of a concern imo.

Then the ending wouldn't focus so hard on how much he hates it until

*sound of chroma in the background*

Alicia is simply doing whatever the fuck she wants. She did what painted Alicia wanted her to but won't grant verso the same right, because she doesn't want to out of pure selfishness.

and a right punishment for people who chose it willingly.

oh you fucking pretentious piece of shit jesus christ.

What's more, I don't think anyone in this game does anything as evil as Maelle does by staring him dead in the eyes as he begs to be unpainted and yet she refuses to do it. This is after she didn't hesitate for a moment to unpaint Alicia despite his protests, leaving him with virtually nobody in the canvas to love or care about while also refusing to remove him from it. That bitch is giga selfish, typical 16 year old.

Maelle kills verso in the last fight & erase him. Then remake him, and he *will* play the piano like he is supposed to, or will suffer the consequences.
Maelle est une connasse.

Ask yourself why he doesn't want this life. He's not just a suicidal creep.

You pinkie sweared to play a concert pianoboy

I hate both endings. This is Nier Automata all over again. We need Golden Ending dlc ASAP.

This. You just know Maelle would get TERRIBLY upset if Verso embarrassed her in front of all her friends by not playing.
There would be consequences...

Verso forces Maelle to watch Gustave die, a man that he knows for a fact, is her brother/father figure. And not just that, he justifies it by throwing a complete bullshit reasoning. And there's more, Alicia actually forgives him.

And there's more, Alicia actually forgives him.

No, she just doesn't care because Verso>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone else

I agree that the ending hinges its sort of ominous tone on the repainted Verso being a slave and whatnot, but I think it also draws a lot of attention to the fact that Maelle is already showing signs of mania and we know then that she's going to follow the path of her mother and might even die in the canvas. That element felt more damning than Verso's fate, which felt like it could be interpreted as possibly kind of an okay ending if a little sinister.

Verso and Alicia both have three aspects to them in regards to their goals throughout the game in regards to Verso and Act 3 in regards to Alicia.
For Alicia its
1. Her not wanting to lose her Friends
2. Her not wanting to let go of her brother
3. Her not wanting to be burnt
And for Verso its
1. His exhaustion and wanting to die
2. His Inherited affection and guilt from the Real Verso's death causing pain to the family
3. His own attachment to the world (he obviously felt for those painted like him but also suppressed this part of himself constantly in service to point 2 outside of a bit for act 3).

The issue is that for the "I don't want this life quote" is that people only see it in regards to Point 1.
Its both that he wants to die because he is tired, but also that he wants to die because he doesn't want to see Alicia rot away over time.
The "if you grow old line is Alicia attempting to comprise based off something he said previously in a way were she gives him a bit of what she wants but also gets to keep him around because it makes her feel good despite him not wanting any of this at all.

They already confirmed that's it for the endings.

I prefer Alicia, but both suck a shitton.

The reason we cannot have a true ending is Verso's fault by killing Gustave. Him letting Gustave get killed destroyed the third ending, because he purposefully let Maelle/Alicia be traumatized yet again by watching a loved one die in front of her, sending her into deeper into the depths of grief, which made her obsessed with bringing Gustave and everyone back even at the cost of her own life - and at the cost of torturing Verso's soul. Gustave was the best family she ever had, and Gustave would have been the only one able to convince her not to kill herself within the canvas and learn some moderation. Gustave does not want to control her life like Renoir, but he will do anything he can to protect her. Maelle would have also been more mentally stable with Gustave around, so reason could have more easily reached her. At least I believe so. Still, it's fitting that both endings are just tragic. I honestly don't want a third ending, even though the third ending would have sent the kindest message.

I agree that the ending hinges its sort of ominous tone on the repainted Verso being a slave and whatno

No, that ending is ominous also based on the knowledge Alicia never moves over Verso's death and remains in her denial stage of grief until she dies young and deranged from the guilt she feels over what happened in the fire.

It's over, tragedygods won

The only one who can actually achieve the golden ending is Clea and she doesn't give a fuck about the painting and thinks it's a babysitter for her sister while she kills writers. She's the only one that can kick Maelle out and hide that thing from all her family members so Verso's canvas doesn't die.

Verso forces Maelle to watch Gustave die

This is dishonest, I'm sure he'd prefer if Gustave died without her seeing it happen. All he wanted was for Gustave to die, he didn't go out of his way to force her to watch him die.

a man that he knows for a fact, is her brother/father figure

Yes, and his knowing this is why he lets it happen. He's completely jaded by everything about the canvas, he knows Gustave isn't real and is ultimately just going to be an obstacle that might keep Alicia from siding with him and Renoir to destroy the canvas to save Aline. He doesn't do it out of cruelty or selfishness, he believes it's for the greater good, including for her own well being. I have a hard time thinking that Maelle choosing not to unpaint Verso is anything but complete and total selfishness, especially considering it's well established that she's already begun to lose her grip on sanity at that point.

"get the fuck up, go outside, and stop engaging in your destructive escapist hobbies" ending,

And as equally retarded and hypocritical in this exact same message as a certain anime movie that came out a few years ago.

I want to have sex with Maelle's sister

Lune and Sciel would know

is Verso's fault by killing Gustave

You SERIOUSLY overstimate the shits Alicia gives about Gustave.

Gustave was the best family she ever had

And flat out wrong because that's Verso and Renoir for her.

and Gustave would have been the only one able to convince her not to kill herself within the canvas and learn some moderation.

And this is flat out wrong btw

She would 100% control your life and make you stop playing Vidya.

That's still no excuse for letting yourself rot. One of the first things I found solace in was a WoW guild which ate up more and more of my time as I got to make friends and form connections over it. Eventually I realized that I was sinking to much time into it and quit cold turkey which in combination of me no longer NEETing meant I no longer had the time to do the necessary social upkeep on those relationships.
Its not the same but the point stands to suffer for growth is the better thing to do.

both maelle and verso are pieces of shit

despite whatever ending you pick someone innocent is having to suffer because of said choice because maelle and verso are such horrible people

No matter what ending someone innocent ends up having to suffer...

She would 100% control your life

Good

and make you stop playing Vidya

:(

If she allows them to remember.

The game itself disagrees with you.

No you just still fall for his lies lmao. And yet despite being tortured he doesn't learn from this experience, exposing him a brainlet, like yourself

The painted people have souls argument doesn't really hold water when you consider Maelle can easily manipulate them with the flick of her finger

you can't be serious, all their social link dialogues and side quests are in act 2 and 3

Its both that he wants to die because he is tired, but also that he wants to die because he doesn't want to see Alicia rot away over time.

And Aline. Look at how he looks at the Paintress prior to the paintress boss fight. Read the things he tells Aline, or how he's behaving and feeling in that scene.
That's not a man on a suicidal quest just cuz, that's a man on a suicidal quest because this painted life (that he deeply valued at some point, look at his last line in his own journal; "We deserve to live!") causes nothing but suffering to his real family: Aline and Alicia, stuck in a canvas.
And yes, by the point of the game, he differentiates between the painted family and the real one (the one in the real world), as is made obvious in the Painted Renoir prebattle and postbattle dialogue. Despite never living with real Alicia, Verso puts her well being and kicking her out of the canvas as something more important than the wellbeing of his painted family. Aline lived with Painted Verso, he had a real family dynamic with her, but Alicia is still his sister. As a copy of real Verso, he feels that way towards her.

But when Palicia dies, Verso claims he has no family left anymore while pissed/sad/grieving

Why are you believing him? People in turmoil say things that aren't true or that they don't feel are true. When Alicia dies to be kicked out of the canvas in his ending, he repeats the same soothing words Real Verso told Alicia before dying.

What's the DLC even gonna be? Game already feels super complete.
The only thing I can think of is seeing what Clea's been doing the whole time.

Clea has no problem destroying the canvas, she has nothing to do with golden endings, she seems completly unmoved by it
She paints over people and turns them into zombies ffs

Expedition 0/Verso's life before the game (meeting renoir, knowing he's not real and what his existence means, meeting clea...)
Clea stuff

Was DLC confirmed? I'd been avoiding all info about this game to prevent spoilers for weeks.

The ideal DLC would be a short playable campaign as expedition 0. I badly want that in my life.

If a painter lives their life out in the painting and comes back to the real world, do they return at the same age they went in? Do they age at the same rate in the painting? It seems like only weeks have passed since Verso died, as they look relatively the same in the final portrait, and they haven't even had a funeral for Verso yet and Clea says that Aline and Renoir have been in canvases longer than this.

Verso and Sciel are almost perfect for each other and I'm tired of pretending otherwise

What they do in the paintings is basically astral projection.

Nah Lune and Verso are. Both a musicians who had overbearing parents that put pressure on them. Sciel was just an easy fuck for verso.

If a painter lives their life out in the painting and comes back to the real world, do they return at the same age they went in?

I think this is proven in the Verso ending since the entire family appears to be around the same age they were in the family portrait. Time likely just passes extremely quickly in the canvas. As such I'd imagine that, if Maelle was to leave the painting willy nilly as she claims she totally could and would do, that would mean she would pop back into the canvas the next day and probably everyone would be dead by the time she comes back.

I'd just like to remind you all that Clea actually made half of the canvas, and it isn't all entirely Versos.

And Clea doesn't give 2 shits about the canvas and is fine seeing it destroyed.

who had overbearing parents that put pressure on them

Verso's family supported his music side.
He basically has zero chemistry with Lune throughout.

Lune IRL

This is dishonest, I'm sure he'd prefer if Gustave died without her seeing it happen. All he wanted was for Gustave to die, he didn't go out of his way to force her to watch him die.

He had chances to kill him and possibly even Lune before they got to Maelle. He made sure that Gustave (and Lune) were the ones to find Maelle in Flying Waters, and fast. So clearly he had chances to do this without her watching, why do you think he chose not to?
She watching Gustave die by Renoir's hands gives her the necessary drive to go on a motivated revenge quest against Renoir, turning her into a bloodthirsty beast; throughout Act 2 you see this, Maelle becomes utterly pessimistic and everytime Renoir is mentioned, she just talks about killing him. This also makes him a very trustable-looking person, as the expedition's perception is that he wants the same goals as him.

he knows Gustave isn't real and is ultimately just going to be an obstacle that might keep Alicia from siding with him and Renoir to destroy the canvas to save Aline

And again, why doesn't he just off him in Spring Meadows? He was tracking their every move. Instead he brings them together, filling the entire party with hope, just to take it away.

This also makes me remember the dialogue with Monoco at the station.

Don't you recognize her? She's our only chance

YOUR only chance

Verso is clearly manipulating here, and Monoco's first reaction is of disapproval.

The live-action show released already? How is it (for a live-action Netflix slop adaptation)?

I would never be able to please woman like that...

Real Verso literally died to give his sister a chance at life. Letting her rot in the painting makes his sacrifice meaningless.

Both Versos die to give Alicia a chance at life.

This game starts strong and turns to dogshit halfway through. I really wonder how many people here actually played it or just watched scenes on YouTube? I wish I just watched it on YouTube. Waste of money

turning her into a bloodthirsty beast

And yet this is a way healthier way to cope than what Alicia actually does.
Wanting to murder the guy who killed Gustave is a pretty normal reaction.

Yeah man to rot 60 years living a life you don't want to live where you'll have breathing issues for the rest of your life, where you're blind in one eye and won't be able to romantically connect with anyone while WW1 and WW2 is in your horizon. Veros ending surely was the good one right?

That's a completely valid pro-Verso's ending argument.

However, basing your decision on this only truth, and pretending it is the right thing, is IMO a mistake.

Both endings bring immediate suffering, and very likely suffering in the long run. It's just up to you how to deliver the suffering.

This confirms that realVerso hated Alicia. He intentionally threw away his life for her so that she could live a life of suffering for the rest of her days.

Yeah man to rot 60 years living a life you don't want to live

Chances are she kills herself, following in Verso's footsteps.

The Dessendres are toast in either ending.

won't be able to romantically connect

Nah, there's been worse.

while WW1 and WW2 is in your horizon

Yeah, extremely rich magic french family surely has issues with this.

She's still cute

He had chances to kill him and possibly even Lune before they got to Maelle.

Not only would this defeat the purpose of letting Gustave die (which is to stir up hatred of painted Renoir and drive a revenge mission, as you pointed out), I think it's a stretch to think that Verso would be capable of killing them in cold blood. As far as I could tell from journal lore dumps, the only time he killed expeditioners was when some of them found out he was immortal and brutally tortured him for information. The rest of your post is correct, but I think you should draw a distinction between "allowed Gustave and co. to chase down Renoir, knowing full well they'd fly too close to the proverbial sun and likely be killed at which point he would save Maelle and groom her to help in destroying the canvas" and "FORCED Maelle to watch Gustave be brutally murdered". There's a line between a calculated decision to allow a person to be killed, and whatever that second thing is which makes it sound like he physically held down Maelle as an active accomplice to Gustave's summary execution or something.

And again, why doesn't he just off him in Spring Meadows?

You said it yourself, to hype everyone up on a revenge plot. That anon said he justified it with "bullshit reasoning", but as you point out, his reasoning is actually completely sound despite being very cruel and manipulative.

Verso letting Gustave die is unambigiously fucked up, but it's not cruelty for the sake of it. He had a reason. When I said Maelle refusing to unpaint Verso is the most evil thing anyone in the game does, I said that because she has no greater goal that could be understood as morally good. She ignores his pleading out of pure selfishness. She could just as easily unpaint him and keep the canvas, but she specifically wants the canvas with him in it whether he wants that or not. That's uniquely evil compared to what most other naughty things characters do in this story of mostly fucked up assholes.

Revenge is never good for anyone, Anon.

There is no writing or reasoning that concludes in me ever siding with Verso, the stupid faggot. Killing off Gustave and turning the game into family drama paint and camp becoming the Verso Show was this game's biggest mistakes in terms of the story. No, giving him the fucking devil may cry style meter didn't make me like him more as a character.

Real Verso was a suicidal fuck who probably saw the fire as a good way to commit suicide

Yeah man just fucking die of a heroin overdose at 16, I mean shit is life even worth living as a burn victim? Those fucked up losers famously NEVER lead happy or fulfilling lives, may as well just die young and happy

- things verso, the guy who died saving his sister from a house fire, would definitely say

to rot 60 years

She won't survive nearly that long, she'll be dead in her 50s at the latest or more likely overdose on painkillers in a couple of years.

Why not just kill Alicia right here and now then if she can only suffer? Burn the canvas and kill her as soon as Aline is out of the canvas.
Neither Verso nor Renoir wants this because they love Alicia. They both know she won't suffer as much as you pretend she will because shell spend a fraction of her life in her fucked up existance and much more time in different canvases, just not ones where she pretends Verso never died.

Besides, she looks pretty okay in the Verso ending. Doesn't look like someone experiencing painful breathing. When she claims it hurts, we don't even know how long it was after the fire.

The sequel will introduce another painter family and that family will have a YA son with a disability and he'll bond with Alicia over being crippled fucks and they'll have 5 kids together. While Clea watches.

you protected her smile, right Anon Babble?

It's funny, with all those western AAA slop games supposedly pushing the boundaries of facial animation tech like the last of us and horizon and whatnot, I still don't think I've ever seen a face convey more emotion silently than Lune's face in this cutscene does.
Actually somehow, despite absolutely atrocious lip sync, the facial animations in this game are still top notch

This game can't stop shooting itself in the foot when it comes to the writing. Real Renoir says he created hundreds of painted worlds. Maelle can just spend her life chilling in other worlds just not the one she's obsessively stuck in

lole

Based

While Clea watches.

B-bro?

i wonder who could be behind this post

To be fair, he is an asshole.

no, Alicia, you have to accept the fact that life is unfair, but it's going to be better in the long run, I swear.

so, have fun, kid, I am now going to kill myself, because I can't be bothered to face the fact that life is unfair

She will live a full life on the canvas, surrounded by her family and friends. That's a much more desirable end than what Verso was condemning her for just because he wanted to die. Her family in the ending don't give a shit about her. Aline and Clea blame her for verso's death and wished she died instead. Renoir doesn't give a shit about her as long as he gets Aline back. Let her have her happiness that would be what true verso wanted.

I think it's because this is one of the few games that uses UE5's 'MetaHumans' and actually uses it how it was supposed to be used.

Schizo headcanon

Meds.

criticism of E33 story

look inside

it's an illiterate retard

She wants to stay in this canvas because it's the only remaining canvas that Verso painted, and if she leaves, Renoir will destroy it. It's literally full of his childhood drawings and dreams. It's a cute fantasy world devised by the embodiment of innocence, your dead older brother's childhood sketches come to life.

Pumped and Dumped award. She sits there lied to again while Verso's cum is leaking out of her pussy.

because I can't be bothered to face the fact that life is unfair

His very existence is killing his family and has lived for over 100 years. He's WELL past that point.

I am now going to kill myself, because I can't be bothered to face the fact that life is unfair

That's not why he has to die.

dude she's gonna feel really good and probably see some cool stuff if she drops 10 tabs of acid and shoots up black tar heroin, worth it

Renoir shows you what Aline is experiencing in the real world while she's balls deep in the canvas. She's literally losing her mind. It's well and good to think about what Maelle will believe she's experiencing within the canvas, but in reality, she will literally go insane, wither away, and die.

Ngl this game sucks
it really bothers me that verso gets to deflower my Asian wife and love and then murder her and people say he doesn't deserve to suffer

maelle ending is just executed better. verso ending is so hamfisted and disconnected because they wanted to push the escapism isn't healthy narrative but couldn't figure out a way to write it well.

She will live a full life on the canvas, surrounded by her family and friends

No, her family is out there splitting itself apart.

That's a much more desirable end than what Verso was condemning her

Imagine condemning someone to reality. Such cruelty.

Aline and Clea blame her for verso's death and wished she died instead.

They both get over it. Sometimes we have hateful feelings towards love ones. Time heals these.

Renoir doesn't give a shit about her as long as he gets Aline back

Headcannon. Renoir loves his family like nothing in the world.

Do you really have to lie to make your argument?

She would ruin my life and I would absolutely let her.

youtube.com/watch?v=CB42Hz349JM

And Maelle should care about this... why?
Renoir saying "Alicia, you'll die" is an equivalent of telling a guy about to hang himself "don't do it, you'll die". Motherfucker, that's the point.

verso ending is so hamfisted and disconnected

It's literally one of two binary options that would resolve the entire central conflict of the story (Aline living in the painting as a paintress and turning into a schizo), how is it "disconnected"?

Clea literally created half of that Canvas with Verso while Alicia stayed in her room reading books. Clea literally tells her this in the endless tower, and she has no attachment to this Canvas, while Alicia does.

They wrote it perfectly well. As well as it will ever be written in vydia, probably

Expedition 60 DLC

just fucking die of a heroin overdose at 16

She's literally going to have to be on heroin every day to function (sold as non-additive substitute for morphine in every pharmacy during that time period), it's a choice between a symbolic drug addiction and an actual one.

Renoir loves his family like nothing in the world.

And this does not matter, because he utterly failed to convince his daughter to return home. And to be fair, his arguments were very lackluster, given the circumstances. Just because you love someone doesn't mean you are capable of helping them.

FARKING based. The only Expedition that actually got redpilled about the Paintress and did it all while jacked and naked.

She's literally going to have to be on heroin every day to function

In game source for that affirmation please

When you pull out the hdmi cable.

There's a grand canyon sized gap between "Maelle is practically suicidal and would prefer to die in a state of mental stasis where her body is decomposing in real life but at least she's in her happy place in a painting" and "Verso would want this for Maelle and it's a happy ending". I'm not contesting that Maelle, by the end, has weighed out that she will literally die in the canvas in her head and has resolved that she would prefer it. I'm contesting that this is a happy ending, or that irl Verso would want this to happen to her.
These are not mutually exclusive. Yeah, Clea is a massive cunt, but that canvas is still the only thing that Verso ever painted that they still have. Destroying it would be tantamount to destroying Verso in Maelle's eyes. She believes (rightfully) that Renoir will destroy it if she leaves since Aline was successfully pulled out, so she resolves to stay there forever to keep this piece of Verso alive.

In todays dating market?
A 1 eyed burnt girl can probably get an 8/10 man.

Would, yeah

Addicted people don't get better with nor are they moved by arguments. Have you ever encountered or dealt with a person who's so addicted she lies to your face, steal shit in your house and pretend everything is okay, and then throw a fit and pretend the whole world is out to get them when confronted?

That's how addicted people behave. There's no talking to them. There's no reasoning with them. You have to force them, and then later they might come to realize you saved their lives. Renoir argument weren't the best, but no argument would have been enough.

decades or centuries spent living a happy life vs a NEET life spent reading books alone in her room all day until the eventual suicide

The only difference between the endings is whether Maelle is happy or not.

Same but her nether lips.

Expedition 60 is based but for me the real champions are Expedition 69 and Expedition 70, who had to free climb the entire continent to install the grapple points and the climbing hooks. The only other Expedition that comes close to embodying the spirit of 'For Those Who Come After' is the one that forms a bridge out of their dying bodies.

And whether Renoir and Aline get to watch their other child wither and die because their soul is stuck in a painting.

She's cute, knows how to fence and is rich. All she needs is an eyepatch.
The worst part is not being able to speak but there's sign language for that I guess.

Verso's sloppy seconds

forms a bridge out of their dying bodies

Which one was this?

Anon Babble would turn down a cute disabled burn victim from a wealthy socialite family

as if. I know how many of you played katawa shoujo

Verso is literally me, he is my self-insert
no problem with self-insert getting the girls

Alicia is a dogshit paintress.

Lul
Lmao even
Alicia is literally the worst paintress of the family.

Cute

Rich

Burn victim so low self-esteem

Can't talk

Virgin

The perfect woman

Don't forget

16

Verso is literally me

You are not a rich successful pianist artist with 2 cute sisters that love you thoughever

Oh okay then you win

The one with Kid Verso and the Sapling of Aline underneath the tree.

I am literally that thoughbeit

the only time he killed expeditioners was when some of them found out he was immortal and brutally tortured him for information

You're forgetting details about what happened. These expeditioners believed in Renoir and Verso regarding the Paintress being a force of good for them, even though they were in kinda hot water after having returned to Lumiere with the rest of E00 dead and without a scratch.
During some fight, Verso is "killed" and briefly mourned by Julie (Maelle's Nightmare), but Verso just wakes up and acts as if nothing happened (Julie's Journal). Gaslighting people that trusted you, despite being in hot water is perhaps not very smart. This leads Search and Rescue to start questioning what really happened with E00, and if the Paintress was a good thing for them.
Julie and Co kidnap and interrogate Verso (no one ever talks about torture, let alone brutal torture). We know this doesn't work at all and Verso, being a powerful being in their world, chooses to murder them, all because he made a mistake. You can see in Maelle's Nightmare and defenseless and shyly Julie behaves, this is cold-blooded murder.

I think you should draw a distinction

Fair enough

You said it yourself, to hype everyone up on a revenge plot

Yes, that's my point, and leading people to revenge is a pretty evil thing to do.

When I said Maelle refusing to unpaint Verso is the most evil thing anyone in the game does, I said that because she has no greater goal that could be understood as morally good

I don't think this is correct. I don't think you can measure evil like a mathematical equation, e.g.: I do these fucked up things to a noble end (1-1=0), so I am better than someone that does a fucked up thing for selfish reasons (-1 + 0 = -1). It would be really hard for me to choose who's the worst (and would require lots of thought), as it's not an equation for me, you have to compare the fucked up thing to the other fucked up thing.

So is Alicia 32 or 16? Technically 32 right? Or maybe ~20 something because the formative years probably don't count?

Are gestrals from French fairytales or did they make them specifically for the game?

New ones, they are anatomic models with paintbursh head, so perfect for a kid learning to paint.

And so many people fail to understand this.
It's like saying that "killing" someone in sword art online is murder.
It's not, you're "killing" pixels.

Probably 16
I doubt the painters keep adding the time they spend in canvasses to their actual lifetime.

technically not blood-related anymore

YOU JUST KNOW
JUST
KNOW

paintbursh head

I feel retarded for not realizing that

menage a deux

It all depends on who do you think deserves a happy ending. Verso's ending is definately happy for Verso himself and the Dessendres. Is it happy for Alicia? I have my serious doubts. It's definately not happy for the canvas people. And as if so happens, the characters I rooted for the most in the whole game were Alicia and the Expeditioners.
So, I'll just go with Maelle ending. Sure, Alicia will most likely die in a canvas, but that's something she made peace with long ago, so I'm willing to tank this one.
As for the Dessendre's being sad - sorry, you get no sympathy for me. You should've treated your crippled and traumatized daughter better.

where the maelle bikini mods at

Is Verso's Axon implying that real Verso also was lying piece of shit?

i like how the gestrals tie into the backstory of a kid (with dogs) learning to paint, but how do the grandis fit in? why are they even here really?

You should've treated your crippled and traumatized daughter better.

It's not like she treats her family any better

what's important is MY happiness

Maelle can just spend her life chilling in other worlds just not the one she's obsessively stuck in

Goddamn, Anon Babble is genuinely full of media illiterate brown third worlders. Are you fucking retarded?

Just apply some phthalo blue to her pussy and it will be as good as new.

She's underage retard

Why are you treating her as if she's an addict? She's not addicted to the canvas, she's suicidal.

sauce.
SAUCE!!!

16

underage

why are americans like this

Entire thread of people arguing because they cling to an emotional connection to characters instead of enjoying a story as a story in its totality.

Peak Tumblr Brain shit.

It's implying you should try to interpret things more deeply than lying BAD

I mean, yeah?
Why should she have any loyalty to her family, when her family left her in the dirt when she needed their support and blamed her for everything?

Yes, put the responsibility on the youngest member of the family, instead of the older and allegedly mature ones.

age of consent in france is 15

No she's not.

so what? its just a bikini retard

their support and blamed her for everything?

Renoir didn't?

So if your mother is going through some tough stuff, you are supposed to focus on yourself and how they should just coddle you instead?
Alicia is quite literally killing her mother.

brb going to france

niggas down bad for roast beef

muhhh underage

what timmy gonna do?

hy should she have any loyalty to her family, when her family left her in the dirt when she needed their support and blamed her for everything?

My family has done dumb shit to me they later regreted during moments of turmoil, I'm not a nigger that would ditch my own over it. It happens. Humans are emotional beings and sometimes we act on impulse and do/say hurtful things we didn't really mean. Aline loves Alicia.

She's overage and approaching the wall.

He did. Instead of being there for Alicia, he just told her "find yourself something that makes you happy, lol" and fucked off into the canvas.
And then there is this whole Act 3 part when he refuses to address any of her points.

Yeah. Most of the people made by the Paintress (and who are immortal) wanted to die. Verso, Alicia, Clea. Its obvious that if Maelle becomes the new ruler, she won't let her loved ones die either and they will end up in the same position. She is not as strong and as skilled as her mother either

American website

can't get it from nexusfags, need to go to fag95zone

You are the equivalent of a battered wife that keeps coming to her drunk husband, because "he still loves me" and "we are still family".
No, Alicia owes them nothing, because they failed as family when she needed them.

t. broken family nigger

Making a bridge of your dying bodies is kinda silly. Like do they crawl over each other as they dying? And how about the logistics, you can't just start making a bridge from one end, it doesn't work like that.

Aline loves Alicia

Is there any positive interaction between Aline and Alicia?

It's less a mathematical equation to me and more a "do the ends justify the means" and "what are the ends" problem. If you look at, say, Renoir, his position is that he is going to crush his wife and daughter emotionally by destroying the canvas but this, in turn, will ensure they won't waste and wither away in it. He stares Maelle dead in the eyes and says, "I do not care what you want, this is what's best for you" and I think you can easily make the argument that it is.

Conversely, to what end does Maelle keep Verso in the canvas? Just like how Maelle doesn't want the canvas to be destroyed, Verso doesn't want to be in the canvas anymore. However, is there a greater meaning or benefit to keeping him in the canvas? Will it behoove him somehow, or will he remain miserable, existing only to fulfill Maelle's selfish desires to keep a facsimile of her death brother around in this fantasy world in which she has become a god?

I think it's cruel to stare someone in the eyes and, as they beg for you not to do something, do it anyway. People do this to Maelle for the entire game, including Verso, but it's all in service of getting Aline (and eventually, herself) out of the painting so they don't wither away and die in an escapist fantasy that's slowly driving them mad. In Maelle's ending, Maelle stares Verso in the eyes and does the opposite of what he's pleading for her to do solely because she wants him to stick around. Maybe you could argue that she genuinely believes that he's happier this way, but then you're left to question why she unpainted Alicia on request yet refuses to do so for Verso. I can't come up with any answer other than "she doesn't want to", and that's simply never the justification for any of the fucked up shit Verso does. He doesn't do stuff just because he wants it for himself, he does it because he believes the canvas needs to be destroyed and Alice + Alicia need to move on with their lives.

I'm not sure what their deal was. They are obviously Gorons with a twist, but I dont get the theme. Are they supposed to represent Verso's parents, cause they are strong but still want to solve their conflicts with words and not with fists?

I think they're just cute little guys that kid Verso painted.

From psychological point of view, a mother that breaks down so much after loosing her son MUST be a person full of love. It is guaranteed, that Aline was loving mother before verso died. Even Renoir was probably a great dad. You can see that when maelle first saw papa in Lumiere. She hugged him with love. They had to be a very close and loving family before the disaster.

People do this to Maelle for the entire game, including Verso, but it's all in service of getting Aline (and eventually, herself) out of the painting so they don't wither away and die in an escapist fantasy that's slowly driving them mad

The question is - is getting Alicia out actually worth it? You go though all this trouble to "save" Maelle for what - condemning her to live the rest of her days as a sad, disfigured cripple in a dysfunctional, resentful family? She's ALREADY withering away in the real life to begin with. So what's the upside? A blind faith that *somehow* it'll get better?

it'll get better?

It will

I'm tempted to echo the sentiments of people who made the drug addiction analogy. Would I be okay with my sibling spiraling into drug abuse knowing that they're going to inevitably overdose just because their life is hard? Would I give up on trying to help them just because they say "But what if I want to overdose and die at 16!?" Would I put it beyond myself to go so far as to destroy or throw out their stash or paraphernalia, or try to separate them from their plugs? I'd say "no" to probably all of that.

I think there's a version of the story that expertly sets up this final conflict as a true difference in philosophy, and I really wish I could say that I agree with the sentiment that both endings are two people selfishly deciding what's best for someone else, both equal in shortsightedness, but unfortunately the game's text all but confirms that Maelle deciding to stay in the painted world will result in her literally going crazy and dying in real life, and I find it pretty difficult to consider "well, what if that's actually the better outcome for her" as a reasonable or humane reading of the story. Unlike Verso, Maelle is human. Verso will only ever be whatever he is painted to be, but Maelle is a person. She can change and heal. I think there's a big difference between Verso begging to be unpainted, and Maelle begging to live in the painting in bliss until she dies. But I guess that gets into the territory of just how "human" the people in the painting are, and I don't think the game really gets into that kind of philosophy really.

"do the ends justify the means" and "what are the ends"

I don't like to ridiculise arguments, but I just dislike this train of thought. The means need to be individually evaluated regardless of the ends. If our planet were at some point to become overpopulated to the extent of it not being habitable (e.g.: lack of resources), do we start killing people at random to ensure the survival of others?

He doesn't do stuff just because he wants it for himself, he does it because he believes the canvas needs to be destroyed and Alice + Alicia need to move on with their lives.

It's pretty clear that Verso understands this UPON seeing Aline. However this happens at the very end of the game.
His motives before Act 2's end are, in my belief, much more simplistic as he has no idea of what is actually happening outside the painted world.
If I'm not wrong, before the events of the game, Verso's (simplified) timeline is something like this:

Post S&R, he's on Aline's side, and wants to keep everyone alive, and even bring Julie back.

Between this point and Expedition 58, something happens to Verso, and suddenly he's helping E58 take down Aline. What happened, what revelation could he have had? I am not sure, the only thing I can think of is that the guilt of killing Julie finally consumed him, Aline is for unknown reasons unable to help that, and he becomes suicidal. I don't believe there is any evidence of some other epiphany for him.

Would I give up on trying to help them just because they say "But what if I want to overdose and die at 16!?"

That's my breaking point right here. I simply don't trust the Dessandre family to help Alicia. Because, yes, I agree, she needs help, but the only real help she has ever gotten were from the painted people. Meanwhile, Renoir, Aline and Clea were just making things worse for her, until it all crumbled and Alicia decided it would be better if she suicided in the canvas where can hurt her ever again.

reddit game

You're right about Renoir, there are positive interactions with him and Alicia, both in cutscenes and Journals.

The issue is that is simply not present between Alicia and Aline, in fact, every single interaction between both is negative as far as I am concerned.

Parents will treat each child differently.

If our planet were at some point to become overpopulated to the extent of it not being habitable (e.g.: lack of resources), do we start killing people at random to ensure the survival of others?

I mean, this wouldn't really be necessary, people would die due to lack of access to the resources. No need to directly kill anyone, if we end up in a position where we have too many people then mother nature will sort it out because those who can't access resources will just die.

Verso's motives

I would like to see this fleshed out somewhere, because I am a little uncertain about when and why he becomes anti-Aline in the canvas so to speak. That being said, it seemed to me like his endgame from the jump (as in from the start of the game's events) was to take down painted Renoir and lead Maelle to purge Aline from the canvas. Almost everything he does is in service to that.

If those aren't his motives from basically the moment Expedition 33 sets out, basically nothing he does in the game's story makes any sense by my reading. The only other motive I could think of is that he just really really wants to fucking die, which isn't beyond imagination given how much of a sadsack he is, but that feels like it undersells his character and his place in the story.

I would then argue that the presentation of the Verso ending points in the opposite direction where with the erasure of the canvas her family is able to being healing with Alicia included.

I mean, this wouldn't really be necessary

In that situation you need to act, if you don't start doing something more suffering will be had as everyone will need to share for a while before they start to die, or war unsues, which is an even worse fate.

that feels like it undersells his character and his place in the story

Not to me, he goes from a tortured suicidal cheat to someone who sees the light and wants to make things better, at the cost of his own life (as well as others). It's a tragic redemption.

Its orignal plan was to dick around the continent and wait for everyone to get Gormmaged, then when Alicia showed up he thought it could get him access to the painted manor he was presumably kicked out of after his fight with Painted Renoir and to gank the Aline while her guard was down.

As for the switch I think it was a combination of exhaustion, understanding the full consequence of Aline staying in the painting, and Clea pointing out Alicia to him when she was reborn giving him some form of structure.

It's one of those things that the game shows, but the narrative never supports, so it does come off as a bit manipulative for me.
And it cheapens Alicia's character and the moral dillema the game presents in the endgame, because turns out getting over Verso's death is the skeleton key that magically fixes everything. And for me, that's bullshit.

Real Clea met Verso 3 times, the time she met him and Painted Renoir at the foot of the monolith during expedition 0 was the exposition dump.

Not to me, he goes from a tortured suicidal cheat to someone who sees the light and wants to make things better, at the cost of his own life (as well as others). It's a tragic redemption.

If nothing else, this is an interesting reading on his character. He does seem to fly a bit by the seat of his pants, which could either be taken as methodical planning gone horribly wrong or as someone who's merely capturing an opportunity to do something selfish (destroy the painting so he can finally stop existing) only to eventually learn there might be greater moral calling (attempt to restore the Dessendre family).

I seem to recall him being pretty cognizant of the fact that the canvas is a fake world, which could be used as an argument for either his tortured cynicism and desire to simply be unpainted, or as an argument for him understanding that the canvas and his painted family existing is a net negative for the health of the actual real Dessendre family. I might prefer that his motivations throughout the game are flexible and just shape around a consistent desire to see the canvas eventually destroyed.

the time she met him and Painted Renoir at the foot of the monolith during expedition 0 was the exposition dump.

This all happened before Search and Rescue. So this is evidently not the turning point.

I seem to recall him being pretty cognizant of the fact that the canvas is a fake world

Yes, Renoir and Alicia are aware of this too. And luckily for them, they don't carry the guilt of murdering a loved one.

Right, the turning point came sometime after Julie died. However the moment Verso found out about living in the Canvas was when Clea told him about it.

And luckily for them, they don't carry the guilt of murdering a loved one

Are we talking about the same Alicia?

I wonder how Verso reconciles his generally cynical view of the canvas's world and its intangibility with the fact that he said he would want Maelle to bring Julie back. I'm sure the grief is there, but that may have been him bullshitting a bit to keep the wool over the party's eyes.

This thread is about to gommage, Anon. Thank you for the back and forth!

Autistic ramblings about pixels and the meaning of their story, for those who shitpost after.

I would refer back to as i feel its a pretty good breakdown of Verso's main traits and how they affect him.